<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3000</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	8/29/00 8:12:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Tuesday, August 29 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3000<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
Re: BBC Horizon - Source of Background of Information<BR>
Re: Retro D&D rules Q (OT, sorry)<BR>
Re: Retro D&D rules Q (OT)<BR>
Re: Places not to invade (OT)<BR>
RE: Another Dark Imperium<BR>
Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
FYI: Elite on the Palm<BR>
Re: Minor race census<BR>
Architecture resource (with floorplans)<BR>
Re: Is Volker Greimann Still on the List (Concerns Rhylanor and the Land Grab)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
RE: Rare RPG stuff<BR>
RE: Project Idea<BR>
Unsubscribe<BR>
RE: For Striker : groovy grav tank<BR>
Re: Odd Weapons of the Resistance<BR>
Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:44:22 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
<tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
Brethren and sistren, there are VAST CONSPIRACIES at work in the<BR>
Traveller setting!!!!<BR>
<BR>
1.  The "meson gun" is said by many to be named, not for the subatomic<BR>
particle, but for its inventor, "Bob" Meson.  Yet NOBODY has questioned<BR>
the choice of "Bob's" given name!!!  Can it POSSIBLY be a COINCIDENCE<BR>
that "Bob" Meson's given name matches that of legendary SubGenius<BR>
founder J.R. "BOB" DOBBS???  Does the Church of the SubGenius EVEN NOW<BR>
command the awesome power of "BOB'S" MESON GUN????<BR>
<BR>
2.  And WHAT ABOUT the name "Meson" anyway???  Doesn't it sound EXACTLY<BR>
LIKE the word "MASON"?????  Are the vile FREEMASONS behind the awful<BR>
power of this tool of death and DESTRUCTION??  NOBODY HAS asked these<BR>
questions, and NOBODY will EVER tell THE TRUTH about this<BR>
"COINCIDENCE"!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
3.  EVEN WORSE!!! The company now publishing Traveller material is the<BR>
infamous STEVE JACKSON Games, whose firm was linked to CYBERCRIMES by<BR>
none other than the SECRET SERVICE!!  As a "JOKE" to lull us into<BR>
complacency, STEVE JACKSON Games even uses the dreaded EYE-IN-THE<BR>
PYRAMID symbol of the foul Bavarian ILLUMINATI!!!!  Even NOW, they're<BR>
planning to <<fnord>>, by taking over <<fnord>> and DESTROYING OUR<BR>
<<fnord>>!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
<<tongue-in-cheek>><BR>
<BR>
Sorry about that.  I just felt the need to rant (I hope) humorously<BR>
about conspiracy theory loons.  I feel much better now.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:55:37 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: BBC Horizon - Source of Background of Information<BR>
<BR>
Great, now I'm never going to get any work done.<BR>
<BR>
They don't have my favourite - 'Whatever happened to Starwars'<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>; <bits@bits.org.uk>; David Thomas<BR>
<THOMASDL@parliament.uk>; <snakebite@halfwaystation.freeserve.co.uk>;<BR>
<andy.slack@gb.unisys.com>; <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>;<BR>
<steve@vriko.freeserve.co.uk>; <richard.talbot@btinternet.com>;<BR>
<hiwg-twg@qrc.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 10:29 PM<BR>
Subject: BBC Horizon - Source of Background of Information<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Hi all,<BR>
><BR>
> I've just discovered that the BBC no longer sells the scripts of its<BR>
> science programme 'Horizon' but they are all archived on their<BR>
> website. Have a look at;<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/horizon/space.shtml<BR>
><BR>
> for all the space stuff. Each programme has a synopsis and external<BR>
> links, plus the transcript linked off it.<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/horizon/asteroidtran.shtml<BR>
><BR>
> Is the transcript of the episode about asteriods cross earth orbit<BR>
> that was shown tonight.<BR>
><BR>
> Enjoy,<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
> ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
> "In the End I found beginnings, not a vision, a wake up call.<BR>
> Raised from the dead by a beating heart and at last I can<BR>
>    see it all. And my eyes were opened to the darkness.."<BR>
>                    Fish /Raingods with Zippos/<BR>
> Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:58:00 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Retro D&D rules Q (OT, sorry)<BR>
<BR>
- ---- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <trentfs@ix.netcom.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> 1) What exactly was the 'Outdoor Survival' map supposed to be used for?  For<BR>
wilderness adventures when the DM was too lazy to draw his own map?  If so, how<BR>
was it supposed to interface with "real-world" wilderness adventures, or was it?<BR>
Follow-up question:  did anybody actually use the 'Outdoor Survival' map with<BR>
D&D?<BR>
<BR>
I did, I used it for a whole campaign and then drew my own maps on vast sheets<BR>
of hex paper to expand it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> 2) How exactly did 'Chainmail' and D&D's combat systems merge together?  There<BR>
are several sub-questions I could ask about this, but I'm trying to keep this<BR>
intrusion relatively brief.<BR>
<BR>
Very badly but in those days we were all making it up as we went along.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:27:50 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Retro D&D rules Q (OT)<BR>
<BR>
>From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Retro D&D rules Q (OT, sorry)<BR>
><BR>
>> why you talking D&D AD&D, where is the thread connection thingy,,,, to<BR>
>> Traveller?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
><BR>
>Had you read the original post you would have seen the person asking the<BR>
>question apologized for asking here, and that this was the only place he<BR>
>really knew to ask.<BR>
<BR>
	Personally, having been a gamer since my granddad taught me to play<BR>
chess and go as a child, and an RPGer since about 1978, I am fascinated with<BR>
the history and development of our hobby.  And since we are constantly<BR>
re-writing these rules or porting in rules from other game systems, I don't<BR>
think it is too far off topic.  (Hey, History of Science has become a<BR>
recognised field of scholarly research.)<BR>
	As for writing to Gygax, don't shudder too hard - a friend of mine<BR>
emailed him recently and got a very cordial response.  I doubt if he would<BR>
respond well to a flame, but then who would?  Give it a try, it couldn't<BR>
hurt.<BR>
	As for "Outdoor Survival", I recall there being some _little_<BR>
mention of it in 'First Fantasy Campaign', or perhaps some of other material<BR>
about the development of Dave Arneson's Blackmoor.  'First Fantasy' is<BR>
actually rather interesting to read as you can see hints of the slow<BR>
development of D&D out of a purely miniatures wargame.  For myself, by the<BR>
time I was running overland campaigns, Judge's Guild had already published<BR>
their "Ready Ref Sheets" booklet and their "Wilderlands" material was coming<BR>
out, so I used that instead of OS.  I kept looking at it in the FLGS, but<BR>
cash was such a limiting variable back then, and there was always something<BR>
else to spend it on.  I recently picked up a copy at a con and have taken a<BR>
look or two at it.  The rules for movement would drive a party up the walls,<BR>
but would be good fodder for the referee if the party was lost.<BR>
<BR>
	Trent - you are relatively local to me, if you're interested I'd<BR>
love to talk about this more.  email me at home - RBasler1@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT (and feeling his age more than normal right now)<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 01:35:27 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Places not to invade (OT)<BR>
<BR>
Well they say you can tell a man by the quality of<BR>
his enemies.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 5:33 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Places not to invade (OT)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Well, Finland more or less got invaded by _both_ sides. Same thing<BR>
> happened to Estonia. That happens a lot when you can control the Baltic<BR>
> Sea...<BR>
> <BR>
> A physics professor of mine back in college was Estonian, one of _three_<BR>
> members of his high school graduating class to have survived the war. At<BR>
> one point his uncle and he were wanted by both the NKVD and the Gestapo<BR>
> at the same time.<BR>
> <BR>
> Les Howie wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >        One of history's greatist snipers was a Finn<BR>
> > (snip)><BR>
> > <BR>
> > >After that, hunting Russians (during the Winter War)<BR>
> > >or slightly later, Nazis, was child's play.  His<BR>
> > score >was something like 5 (or was it 7?) _hundred_<BR>
> > <BR>
> > My knowledge of Finnish history (and WWII) must have<BR>
> > fuzzed out a bit.  Why would he (a Finninsh soldier)<BR>
> > have been shooting at the Germans?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > _______________________________________________________<BR>
> > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Bruce Johnson<BR>
> University of Arizona<BR>
> College of Pharmacy<BR>
> Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:37:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Another Dark Imperium<BR>
<BR>
I agree - IHMO it is not that the imperium is 'dark' or 'bad' or<BR>
'xfilesish' - just (and it always has been, even when I ran Traveller back<BR>
in the day) (IMESVHO) 'realistic'. If you have a decentralized goverment<BR>
with people on the fringes having power (as in the imperium) you can have<BR>
good people and bad people with alot of authority. In the marches, most of<BR>
the Power People are 'good' but they see a threat - the Zho's. Therefore for<BR>
the 'good' of the Imperium, they do somewhat 'bad' things and then they try<BR>
and cover _every_ thing they do up, so that people have warm and fuzzys<BR>
about the Imperium - and they don't know that their hands got really bloody<BR>
to win the latest war, free the latest hostages etc..<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
> It's interesting to note how people's perceptions of the Imperium have<BR>
> changed over time.  Back in the 80's and early 90's there was a clear<BR>
> element of 'cold war' to the conflict between the empire and<BR>
> the Zhodani.<BR>
> Now I see more and more people (including myself to a limitted degree)<BR>
> modelling their Imperium after the conspiracy trend, with<BR>
> governments as<BR>
> untrustworthy machiavellian entities replete with spin<BR>
> doctors, crooker<BR>
> leaders, etc.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I can appriciate the desire to have a good Imperium. The usual perception of<BR>
the 3I does seem to be as an analogue for the US..cold war turns to<BR>
paranoia...roughly comtemporaneous with real-life events. But hey, who wants<BR>
to play 'X-Files in Space', right? OK, there is tons of evidence that the US<BR>
government did plenty of dodgy things during the last 50 years (don't even<BR>
get me started on my own government), but there is one important thing I try<BR>
to keep in mind:) The Imperium isn't the US. My .02 Cr :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:47:28 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
Aha!  See?  I told you, but you wouldn't listen. Tsk, tsk.  I am vindicated.<BR>
<BR>
> Brethren and sistren, there are VAST CONSPIRACIES at work in the<BR>
> Traveller setting!!!!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:03:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: FYI: Elite on the Palm<BR>
<BR>
I just found Elite (the old traveller like game) for the Palm OS (for you<BR>
palm geeks out there) it is called: Void - i got it from Palmgear.<BR>
<BR>
Just supin to do during those loooong meetings.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:09:35 -0400<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Minor race census<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:58:18 EDT<BR>
> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Minor race census<BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 8/27/00 4:11:39 PM !!!First Boot!!!, Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com<BR>
> writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << I'm actually surprised there are not more Minor Vargar Races scattered<BR>
>  about.<BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> here's an adventure nugget: There WERE lots of them at one time, but were<BR>
> killed off. The PC's get involved somehow when they run across evidence that<BR>
> 1) The Ziru Sirku killed them off as "unwilling to acculturate" 2) the Aslan<BR>
> killed them off 3) the Zhodani killed them off 4) the Hivers manipulated<BR>
> someone else into killing them off 5) the K'kree killed them off (most<BR>
> plausible of the lot) 6) Everybody killed them off in their respective<BR>
> empires. The PC's are now on the run with government agents trying to silence<BR>
> them to prevent bad publicity and diplomatic meltdowns if evidence of<BR>
> Vargricide goes public. Granted this is an extremely implausible adventure,<BR>
> but could be a lot of fun for a group that loves conspiracies...:-)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	The K'kree kill Vargr where they encountered them. No surprise there.<BR>
Despite the fact the Vargr generally win the conflicts. No real<BR>
conspiracies from there. <BR>
	The Ziru Sirku killing a Vargr Minor Races or two would be an<BR>
interesting historical foot note. But its been so long and there's no<BR>
one left to answer for the crime it hardly seems relevant. <BR>
<BR>
	The Zhodani. Now there is a conspiracy. Various agencies in the<BR>
Imperium would love to have this information to use as propaganda and<BR>
leverage. The Zhodani would try to keep it quiet. And the Vargr groups,<BR>
some would not care, some would declare holy war on the Zhodani, and<BR>
some would help track down the players. And since the evidence is deep<BR>
within the Vargr extents, at the far end of a bad misjump...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:22:31 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Architecture resource (with floorplans)<BR>
<BR>
The US Army Corps of Engineers publishes design guides for various types of<BR>
public buildings at:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.usace.army.mil/inet/usace-docs/design-guides/all.htm<BR>
<BR>
In addition to specific space and size requirements, each guide usually<BR>
provides one or two example designs complete with floor plans that can<BR>
easily be translated into chrome for any more-or-less modern (TL5-8) world.<BR>
<BR>
The files are in .pdf and (as full e-books) tend to be quite large (1Mb or<BR>
more). I found it easier (in IE) to right-click on the links and save the<BR>
file, rather than try to open them in-stream.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 03:13:08 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Is Volker Greimann Still on the List (Concerns Rhylanor and the Land Grab)<BR>
<BR>
At 04:00 29.08.00, you wrote:<BR>
>Volker, are you still out there?  I have some stuff on Rhylanor that I would<BR>
>like for you to see.  I tried your geocities e-mail address and it seemed<BR>
>dead.  The trier address seemed like it might have worked.<BR>
<BR>
Hi , yup, still here, though not posting much lately.<BR>
Anything you have on Rhylanor will be excellent!<BR>
<BR>
For everyone: My favorite Adress is now: volker@greimann.de<BR>
(Easy, isnt it?)<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
Volker A. Greimann<BR>
greimann@geocities.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:42:12 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 29-Aug-00 6:35:10 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> GDW was a game company for a while before they released<BR>
>  Traveller, in which time the folks there presumably acquired a good deal of<BR>
>  experience in game design and presentation.<BR>
<BR>
By the time Traveller came out, we had already produced an RPG -- An LTB <BR>
(Little Cream Book) called En Garde!<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:45:17 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Rare RPG stuff<BR>
<BR>
I could also...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Mark Urbin<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:41 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Rare RPG stuff<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com> types:<BR>
>Subject: RE: Expensive RPG modules<BR>
>I hate you.<BR>
>:P<BR>
>- -----<BR>
>I believe I still have two copies of the Ringworld game and one copy of the<BR>
>Ringworld Companion.<BR>
<BR>
I could grow real fond of him if he has a scanner. :-)<BR>
<BR>
'<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- -<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued<BR>
other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and<BR>
rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- -<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:48:33 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Project Idea<BR>
<BR>
Dean Jones <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I have one I'm rather proud of...he's paraplegic and has both legs and his<BR>
>left arm replaced with very expensive, very flashy prostheses. Good patron<BR>
>too...At the moment one of my PCs is trying to track-down the man who stole<BR>
>them :)<BR>
<BR>
Let me guess - they cost a cool $6 million, right?       : - )<BR>
<BR>
Graeme<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
If at first you don't succeed, try not to play Russian Roulette.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:56:52 EDT<BR>
From: KenRoney@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Unsubscribe<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:03:38 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: For Striker : groovy grav tank<BR>
<BR>
They were in sight of each other, a few hundred meters to a KM. IIRC that<BR>
the nuke was a .01 kt (or other infantery support type weapon). The marine<BR>
was the only person on the skin of the well armored PC's ship (eacept poor<BR>
bubbles). From what I have seen of the 'near misses' of the re-supply ships<BR>
and MIR it could have worked out. With the acceleration of the round and the<BR>
short range, well, I fudged it :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Leonard<BR>
Erickson<BR>
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 5:01 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: For Striker : groovy grav tank<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I actually had (in a hard times game) a character with BD and the 4cm Auto<BR>
> grenade launcher with a few clips of Nukes. (as I lent my striker rules<BR>
out<BR>
> to Mr. Avendoo) IIRC that they are in striker. He used them in a ship to<BR>
> ship fight once (in orbit, the Pinnace was closing to board their vessel,<BR>
it<BR>
> got close and Brrapp - 3 hits with nukes. One of the NPC's was in the<BR>
> airlock in a normal space suit (with the outer door open). He earned the<BR>
> nick of Bubbles after that.<BR>
<BR>
Nice idea, pity it wouldn't work.<BR>
<BR>
You see, if the other ship is far enough for you to be safe (miles<BR>
you'd think, actually *hundreds of miles due to the radiation) you<BR>
can't hit it by aiming at it!<BR>
<BR>
Orbital mechanics is funny that way. For example, if the other ship was<BR>
approaching from "behind" you in the orbit, shotting at it will result<BR>
in the projectile having a *lower* orbital velocity, and thus going<BR>
into a *higher* orbit.<BR>
<BR>
If they are ahead of you in orbit, the reverse holds true.<BR>
<BR>
And I may have this backwards, the point is that orbit to orbit<BR>
trajectories are truly *weird*.<BR>
<BR>
Oh yeah, if you stay in the same orbit, one orbit later that "miss"<BR>
will hit your ship!<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:53:39 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Odd Weapons of the Resistance<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:36:45 -0700, "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"<BR>
<xrp@sierratel.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Via electronic medium on 8/27/00 3:54 AM, shadow@krypton.rain.com issued<BR>
> forth:<BR>
<BR>
> > It's a flour that doubles as an explosive. It's about half as powerful<BR>
> > as an equal amount of TNT. It looks like flour, you can even make bread<BR>
> > with it. And it's edible, though probably not terribly nourishing.<BR>
<BR>
> Does it retain its explosive nature after cooking? Can it be used for paper<BR>
> mache'?<BR>
<BR>
From page 87, _CIA Special Weapons and Equipment: Spy Devices of the<BR>
ColdWar_, (c) 1993 by H. Keith Melton<BR>
<BR>
EXPLOSIVE FLOUR<BR>
<BR>
DESCRIPTION: T Explosive Flour is composition RDX pigmentized (80<BR>
percent), wheat flour (20 percent); powder form,five pounds per<BR>
paper bag.<BR>
<BR>
PURPOSE: This Explosive Flour will pass as ordinary wheat flour<BR>
except under microscopic examination. It can be used in many<BR>
different forms as an explosive:<BR>
<BR>
 a) in its dry form. The flour is easiest to detonate in its<BR>
    powdered form. One special blasting cap (J1 PETN type) provides<BR>
    sufficient shock to set it off;<BR>
<BR>
 b) moistened and used as a plastic explosive. To use as a plastic<BR>
    explosive, mix four parts flour to on part water. It can be<BR>
    moulded around a target in the same manner as Composition C-2,<BR>
    C-3, or C-4. Two special blasting caps (J1 PETN type) must be<BR>
    used to ensure positive detonation.<BR>
<BR>
 c) it can be mixed with other ingredients to produce ceramic<BR>
    moulding material, or by using a special recipe it can be baked<BR>
    into loaves of bread or biscuits.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:53:03 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> > Does the bread explode with a blasting cap? :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Not sure. The *dough* will. I'd think all the airspaces after the bread<BR>
> rises would tend to ruin the effect. Then again, you could always mash<BR>
> it flat first...<BR>
<BR>
(continued from above) .............. The product looks, feels and<BR>
    tastes like bread; however, IT IS HIGHLY TOXIC and SHOULD NOT BE<BR>
    EATEN. Before using the bread form as an explosive, it must be<BR>
    moistened and kneaded into a plastic mass to remove the air<BR>
    spaces. It may then be exploded in the same manner as the<BR>
    plastic form.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
And on Sun, 27 Aug 2000 17:10:31 PST, he wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> > If you wish for the really outr=E9 there was and presumably still is<BR>
> > the antipersonnel mine that was shaped as the road apple/turd most<BR>
> > commonly encountered in the region deployed.  Packed in a special<BR>
> > fluid for shippage once deployed it dried out and was then pressure<BR>
> > sensitive.  It is my understanding that it dates from the Vietnam War<BR>
> > and gave new meaning to the phrase "now you've really stepped in it".<BR>
<BR>
> I think that one goes back to the OSS also.<BR>
<BR>
On page 71 of the above book is the description of a "Dog Doo"<BR>
Transmitter which may be used to "mark a specific location for<BR>
aerial reconnaissance, further observation, or a possible air<BR>
strike."<BR>
<BR>
> There was a good article on the OSS and their weird weapons in Popular<BR>
> Science magazine back in the 60s.<BR>
<BR>
> A few cute items:<BR>
<BR>
> A small bag containing a chemical. You dropped it into the oil filler<BR>
> pipe on an engine. The engine heat would make it diffuse into the oil.<BR>
> After it reached a certian concentration, *all* the bearing in the<BR>
> engine would seize, pretty much simultaneously. Effects on the engine<BR>
> are pretty nasty...<BR>
<BR>
> A capsule you dropped in a gas tank. It had a (rubber?) gasket that the<BR>
> gas would eat away at, slowly. Many hours later (and not a constant<BR>
> number, either!) the gas would reach a chemical which caused a fair<BR>
> sized explosion. And in the gas tank of a truck or car, that's *real*<BR>
> bad news.<BR>
<BR>
There are also various vehicle destroying devices on pages 91 to 97,<BR>
but only one does anything more violent than simply disable it.<BR>
<BR>
There are all sorts of neat little spy gizmos from the 50s and 60s<BR>
in this book that, while clever in their time, look rather quaint<BR>
today. My favorite is the Rubber Airplane (p.102), an inflatable one<BR>
person craft with with a maximum range of 350 miles at 70 mph. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |  It is not true that you must meet Superman at   |<BR>
              | Cheyenne Mountain and get the enormous hat-rack. |<BR>
              |                      FNORD!                      |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:34:47 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
At 06:44 PM 8/29/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
><tongue-in-cheek><BR>
><BR>
>Brethren and sistren, there are VAST CONSPIRACIES at work in the<BR>
>Traveller setting!!!!<BR>
<BR>
No Sh*t. [FNORD]<BR>
<BR>
Back in the the Winter of '82 I ran at a local gaming convention a session<BR>
of "Illuminated Traveller." [FNORD] It was listed in the schedule of events<BR>
under the title: "The Dark Behind The Light." [FNORD] After stumbling on to<BR>
clues at the scene of a terrorist incident, the players spent the session<BR>
investigating the connections between Adam Weishaupt [FNORD] and his<BR>
original Illuminati [FNORD] and the current occupant of the Imperial<BR>
Throne, Ol' Streppy 'imself. [FNORD] A convenient blackboard was used to<BR>
flowchart the Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory. [FNORD]<BR>
<BR>
I was told someting to the effect, "that was fun, don't do it again." <BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\<BR>
Legalize Reality<BR>
////////////////<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:28:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> [snip cool number info]<BR>
><BR>
>> ObTrav:<BR>
>><BR>
>> Have the players find an inscription in an alien language (directions<BR>
>> to a treasure?) and the numbers are in this sort of notation.<BR>
>> Naturally, the dictionary they get out of the computer doesn't mention<BR>
>> this, because all *scholars* know about this sort of thing. <eg><BR>
>><BR>
>> Just picture them trying to figure out the "words" that aren't in the<BR>
>> dictionary (or worse yet, the number happens to be a legitimate word).<BR>
><BR>
> You mean like ANNIC NOVA?  :-)<BR>
<BR>
Honest, I'd completely forgotten about that!<BR>
<BR>
Other funn things to throw at poeple are things like base 12, base 20<BR>
or base 60 numbering systems, all of which have been used by various<BR>
cultures on Earth.<BR>
<BR>
Other fun things are measuring angles in "grads" (400 to the full<BR>
circle) or (indirectly) in radians. For that latter one, you give<BR>
angles as distances around the circumference of a "standard" circle<BR>
(usually one length unit in radius). <BR>
<BR>
This leads to things like an "angle" of 5/12ths of a gronk, where a<BR>
gronk is the unit of length. Which would be about 24 degrees.<BR>
((5/12)/2pi)*360 = 23.87...<BR>
<BR>
With grads its simpler, a right angle is 100. I'll leave to you to<BR>
figure out "go 300 <distance units> on a bearing of 32 <angle units>"<BR>
translates to. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:01:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> <tongue-in-cheek><BR>
><BR>
> Brethren and sistren, there are VAST CONSPIRACIES at work in the<BR>
> Traveller setting!!!!<BR>
><BR>
> 1.  The "meson gun" is said by many to be named, not for the subatomic<BR>
> particle, but for its inventor, "Bob" Meson.  Yet NOBODY has questioned<BR>
> the choice of "Bob's" given name!!!  Can it POSSIBLY be a COINCIDENCE<BR>
> that "Bob" Meson's given name matches that of legendary SubGenius<BR>
> founder J.R. "BOB" DOBBS???  Does the Church of the SubGenius EVEN NOW<BR>
> command the awesome power of "BOB'S" MESON GUN????<BR>
><BR>
> 2.  And WHAT ABOUT the name "Meson" anyway???  Doesn't it sound EXACTLY<BR>
> LIKE the word "MASON"?????  Are the vile FREEMASONS behind the awful<BR>
> power of this tool of death and DESTRUCTION??  NOBODY HAS asked these<BR>
> questions, and NOBODY will EVER tell THE TRUTH about this<BR>
> "COINCIDENCE"!!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
> 3.  EVEN WORSE!!! The company now publishing Traveller material is the<BR>
> infamous STEVE JACKSON Games, whose firm was linked to CYBERCRIMES by<BR>
> none other than the SECRET SERVICE!!  As a "JOKE" to lull us into<BR>
> complacency, STEVE JACKSON Games even uses the dreaded EYE-IN-THE<BR>
> PYRAMID symbol of the foul Bavarian ILLUMINATI!!!!  Even NOW, they're<BR>
> planning to <<fnord>>, by taking over <<fnord>> and DESTROYING OUR<BR>
> <<fnord>>!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
> <<tongue-in-cheek>><BR>
><BR>
> Sorry about that.  I just felt the need to rant (I hope) humorously<BR>
> about conspiracy theory loons.  I feel much better now.<BR>
<BR>
(Displaying Ultraviolet clearance card)<BR>
<BR>
"Come with me Citizen, you are needed" (as reactor shielding:-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3000<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3001</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	8/30/00 11:28:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
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</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest     Wednesday, August 30 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3001<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Weird Numerical Thingies (was: Fish and Beast Codes)<BR>
A Homemade SMG<BR>
Re: Conspiracies in Traveller<BR>
Re: A Homemade SMG<BR>
Re: laser aerosols<BR>
Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
RE: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
Re: Non-Traveller: Prisoner<BR>
Air/Rafts...<BR>
Re: A Homemade SMG<BR>
Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
RE: Need Hiver Scan<BR>
Thanks for D&D info<BR>
RE: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
Re: Need Hiver Scan<BR>
RE: Minor race census<BR>
Re: Air/Rafts...<BR>
Re: Is Volker Greimann Still on the List (Concerns Rhylanor and the Land Grab)<BR>
Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
RE: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
tennou heika banzai<BR>
SM Star maps online? <BR>
RE: SM Star maps online? <BR>
RE: Rare RPG stuff - Ringworld<BR>
Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
Re: Architecture resource (with floorplans)<BR>
Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
RE: [BITS] GenCon UK 2000 reminder.....<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:48:00 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Weird Numerical Thingies (was: Fish and Beast Codes)<BR>
<BR>
<Leonard><BR>
This leads to things like an "angle" of 5/12ths of a gronk, where a<BR>
gronk is the unit of length. Which would be about 24 degrees.<BR>
((5/12)/2pi)*360 = 23.87...<BR>
</Leonard><BR>
<BR>
It can get even stranger than that if you mess with the value of pi! :-)<BR>
How can pi vary?  Well, it depends on the curvature on which you typically<BR>
draw.  If you draw things on spheres, pi=2 (the ratio between an "equator"<BR>
and the perpendicular "half-equator").  Of course, circles at higher<BR>
latitudes will have a pi equivalent which approaches 3.1415...<BR>
assymptotically without ever reaching it.  Could make for truly bizarre<BR>
mathematical systems...<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:51:34 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: A Homemade SMG<BR>
<BR>
OK,<BR>
<BR>
After some digging, I found a true home made SMG.  Follow this link:<BR>
<BR>
http://weapons.travellercentral.com/media/smg_junk.gif<BR>
<BR>
This is a photo of an SMG I took while visiting the ATF reference collection<BR>
on a trip to DC.  This is the first gun I've seen that makes the Sten look<BR>
good. I'm told it works.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- --<BR>
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher<BR>
a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,<BR>
build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,<BR>
cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,<BR>
program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.<BR>
Specialization is for insects." --Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 23:55:25 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
<John Groth><BR>
Brethren and sistren, there are VAST CONSPIRACIES at work in the<BR>
Traveller setting!!!!<BR>
</JG><BR>
<BR>
Well, I have just one thing to say to that:<BR>
<BR>
You can TELL the true Superior Mutant. He (with NO need of Pink churches)<BR>
knows that Mass Short-Term Marriage is the  place to find the Prairie<BR>
Squid and he is NOT RESPONSIBLE! We WILL overcome! Reveling in that One<BR>
True Yeti Mate, the  mutated NATURAL WINNER wants no Normal bosses. Like<BR>
"Bob" himself, the Superior Mutant knows Time Control is his  answer. He<BR>
needs NOTHING so he has it ALL! It's all in the Prescriptures! The mutated<BR>
NATURAL WINNER knows that his  foes are the Joe Sixpacks who embrace<BR>
sanity lovingly. The Mister Nice Guys will stare as dumbly as SHEEP when<BR>
the Saucers  come. All their kind do not GET it, they never will. They are<BR>
PATHETIC! They are CUTE! They are PRETTY! Exterminate  them! Oh, "Bob"<BR>
Himself! Guard us from the Anti-"Bob" which presents the terrifying<BR>
paradox of False Slack and shows that it  is supremely selfish yet has NO<BR>
SELF, and is truly the enemy of the enlightened Superior Mutant! <BR>
<BR>
[Courtesy of the SJGames Random "Bob" rant generator: <BR>
http://www.sjgames.com/inwo/SubGenius/rant.html ]<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:00:17 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: A Homemade SMG<BR>
<BR>
on 8/29/00 8:51 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> OK,<BR>
> <BR>
> After some digging, I found a true home made SMG.  Follow this link:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://weapons.travellercentral.com/media/smg_junk.gif<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Here is a better photo (large jpeg)<BR>
<BR>
http://www.travellerguns.com/media/ugly_smg.jpg<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:08:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: laser aerosols<BR>
<BR>
>The Rapira series of tanks is fitted with a 90MW laser, which should<BR>
>be powerful enough to burn through an aerosol cloud.<BR>
<BR>
How does burning through ALA's work in Striker?<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:09:51 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
On 29 Aug 00, at 18:44, John Groth wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <tongue-in-cheek><BR>
> <BR>
> Brethren and sistren, there are VAST CONSPIRACIES at work in the<BR>
> Traveller setting!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Citizen, your fears are misfounded, now if you would just accompany me to <BR>
the local SolSec office I think I can explain everything...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:10:22 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
<BR>
This is remember old games nite for the duk -<BR>
<BR>
We had an Aslan. Much confusion usually abounded when ever he counted<BR>
anything (the Player could actually figure base 8 fairly quickly in his<BR>
head)<BR>
<BR>
"11 missiles incoming!"<BR>
<BR>
"11? I only see 10 - where is the other one???" (fighter pilot looking<BR>
around frantically)<BR>
<BR>
or<BR>
<BR>
" He told me that the box was 17 over from the right.. but the guns are not<BR>
in this DAMN BOX!!!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----<BR>
Other fun things to throw at poeple are things like base 12, base 20<BR>
or base 60 numbering systems, all of which have been used by various<BR>
cultures on Earth.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:16:41 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: William Molendyk <wmolendyk@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Non-Traveller: Prisoner<BR>
<BR>
- --- Daniel Phelps <phelpsd@gate.net> wrote:<BR>
> >It's "Secret Agent" that is the prequel, I have<BR>
> seen it, IIRC.<BR>
> <BR>
> I even remember the theme song, "Secret Agent Man",<BR>
> the series used.  Don't remember who sung it <BR>
> though.  Great series, I liked it better than "The<BR>
> Prisoner".<BR>
<BR>
The song "Secret Agent Man" was recorded by Johnny<BR>
Rivers and can be found on his "Live at the<BR>
Whisky-A-Go-Go" album.<BR>
<BR>
     William Molendyk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:07:54 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Air/Rafts...<BR>
<BR>
Something that has always made me wonder...Why are air/rafts called<BR>
air/rafts with the */*  in the name?<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:12:31 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: A Homemade SMG<BR>
<BR>
On 29 Aug 2000, at 21:00, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> on 8/29/00 8:51 PM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > OK,<BR>
> > <BR>
> > After some digging, I found a true home made SMG.  Follow this link:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > http://weapons.travellercentral.com/media/smg_junk.gif<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> Here is a better photo (large jpeg)<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.travellerguns.com/media/ugly_smg.jpg<BR>
<BR>
I see the manufacturer got around the problem of making a barrel of any <BR>
significant length :)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:25:58 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><tongue-in-cheek><BR>
><BR>
>Brethren and sistren, there are VAST CONSPIRACIES at work in the<BR>
>Traveller setting!!!!<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Maybe Traveller -itself- is part of a vast conspiracy by the hivers (or<BR>
grandfather).<BR>
<BR>
Maybe it's all a plot to increase our TL by providing vague (but critical)<BR>
information<BR>
about, for example, jump drives, so that we can 'discover' them and become a<BR>
major race.<BR>
<BR>
(Of course, from the TL chart we only have until the end of the year to invent<BR>
them.)<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of which, don't you find it strange that the TML still thinks it's<BR>
1999?<BR>
Does that mean we've got another year to go? That's GOT to be a conspiracy.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Neener-neener neener-neener      ;-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:35:27 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Need Hiver Scan<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> LKW<BR>
> <BR>
> P.S. I have this issue in Austin, but it is hiding from me <BR>
> temporarily.<BR>
<BR>
Tucked away in one of your treasure boxes from Illinois, Loren? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:06:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com><BR>
Subject: Thanks for D&D info<BR>
<BR>
Thanks to all those who responded (on- and off-list) to my D&D question; and<BR>
thanks also to those of you who didn't complain about it.  As far as<BR>
off-topic threads go, I think this was pretty harmless (at least it wasn't<BR>
gun control or BDSM again)<BR>
<BR>
In case anyone's interested, here's the what I learned:<BR>
<BR>
1) 'Outdoor Survival' map:  mostly an 'example' wilderness so the DM could<BR>
how to design his own; most people used it once or twice, and possibly for<BR>
solo adventures.  This makes sense, considering D&D was the first game of<BR>
its type.<BR>
<BR>
2) 'Chainmail' + D&D: Not as compatible as the rules lead you to believe.<BR>
Those Chainmail values on pp. 17-18 are mostly for tabletop conversions, and<BR>
for most combat you use the Alternate Combat System.  I can buy this, since<BR>
the Chainmail system isn't versatile enough to handle many of D&D's<BR>
monsters, but I don't like the ACS (which evolved into the AD&D combat<BR>
system, which I don't like either -- RQ all the way!)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks again for your help and/or patience,<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:13:00 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Brethren and sistren, there are VAST CONSPIRACIES at work in the<BR>
> Traveller setting!!!!<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Lets not forget numerology. If you take numerical values for the letter in<BR>
'Marc Miller' and add them together...you get 104. 1+0+4=5. Coincidence?<BR>
Also, I suspect Loren Wiseman may be Francis Bacon. Sadly all my evidence<BR>
mysteriously vanished last night. <BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <<tongue-in-cheek>><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 00:52:12 -0700<BR>
From: Edward Swatschek <traveller@bitslayer.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Need Hiver Scan<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> We are preparing a Traveller "Art Bible" for use by the people who<BR>
> illustrate Traveller for SJ Games, and I find myself in need of the color<BR>
> illustration of a Hiver on the cover of JTAS #(actual number not in memory<BR>
> at this time). Could someone do a 300 dpi jpg and send it to Alex Fernandez<BR>
> (the production artist in charge of this project). He is at alexf@io.com<BR>
<BR>
'tis done.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Edward Swatschek - edjs@bitslayer.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 15:55:43 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Minor race census<BR>
<BR>
Resistance is futile you will be exterminated<BR>
Exterminate exterminate.... oops!<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 06:22:44 -0400<BR>
From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Air/Rafts...<BR>
<BR>
Apparently that's how Marc prefers it. I came to the conclusion that its<BR>
probably the trademark name for the LSP version of the device, sort of like<BR>
the word "jeep".  Like other items such as kleenes and such, the trademark<BR>
name became synonymous with all such low speed, versatile utility grav<BR>
vehicles.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps there was a Terran aerodyne equivalent before it that carried a<BR>
similar name.<BR>
<BR>
> Something that has always made me wonder...Why are air/rafts called<BR>
> air/rafts with the */*  in the name?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 06:26:48 -0400<BR>
From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Is Volker Greimann Still on the List (Concerns Rhylanor and the Land Grab)<BR>
<BR>
I'll send it this eveninge (about 10 - 12 hours from the time I post this).<BR>
I have some great ideas and I think they agree/don't contracdict all canon<BR>
sources contradict (except the Megatraveller MT2 adventure).  BTW, have you<BR>
found any good information sources on Rhylanor?  I had to work primarily<BR>
with the web page and Regency Sourcebook.<BR>
<BR>
I have a brief geological description, planet names (still working on the<BR>
theme for these), and a general description of the civilization.  I intend<BR>
to work up maps and lightwave models sometime over the next month, which I<BR>
will let decide wheteher you like.<BR>
<BR>
- -Dan Lane<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Volker Greimann" <volker@greimann.de><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 9:13 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Is Volker Greimann Still on the List (Concerns Rhylanor and the<BR>
Land Grab)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 04:00 29.08.00, you wrote:<BR>
> >Volker, are you still out there?  I have some stuff on Rhylanor that I<BR>
would<BR>
> >like for you to see.  I tried your geocities e-mail address and it seemed<BR>
> >dead.  The trier address seemed like it might have worked.<BR>
><BR>
> Hi , yup, still here, though not posting much lately.<BR>
> Anything you have on Rhylanor will be excellent!<BR>
><BR>
> For everyone: My favorite Adress is now: volker@greimann.de<BR>
> (Easy, isnt it?)<BR>
><BR>
> ---<BR>
> Volker A. Greimann<BR>
> greimann@geocities.com<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:21:02 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav:  Maybe it's the 3 year time differential (74-77), or the higher<BR>
>level of authorial<BR>
>professionalism, but I was never this mystified by any portion of the<BR>
>original CT LBBs.<BR>
<BR>
While the LBBs were remarkably clear and concise compared to the early D&D<BR>
books, there was one aspect that confused me for a long time: Missiles in<BR>
space combat.  Never did get Special Supplement 1, so I had no idea how<BR>
missiles were supposed to work.  I ended up using my own improvised system<BR>
of rolling for hits (as with lasers).  Later I switched to a modified<BR>
version of High Guard.  <BR>
<BR>
With the recent D&D 3rd ed., it occurred to me how ahead of its time<BR>
Traveller was:  No levels, a skill-based system, a universal (if informal) <BR>
dicing mechanic for task resolution, damage that degraded abilities, some<BR>
idea of character background, no arbitrary class-based rules (can you<BR>
imagine "Scouts can't use automatic weapons" or "Merchants can only wear<BR>
reflec armor"? :-), etc.  The only "early RPG" aspect was having armor<BR>
make you harder to hit, rather than absorbing damage.  D&D still hasn't<BR>
gotten rid of many of these... <BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:53:17 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
hi there, ... just wanting to get a list out to a friend, of science fiction<BR>
literature, which has a base relation to Traveller. Could naybody send me<BR>
the link for any such list. I have seen some titles in the past. I would if<BR>
I had the time, gdig through the lot, though it is for a friend, one of my<BR>
future players.<BR>
I would be most gratefull, for any help in this matter....<BR>
<BR>
Mike.<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:57:23 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> hi there, ... just wanting to get a list out to a friend, of <BR>
> science fiction<BR>
> literature, which has a base relation to Traveller. Could <BR>
> naybody send me<BR>
> the link for any such list. I have seen some titles in the <BR>
> past. I would if<BR>
> I had the time, gdig through the lot, though it is for a <BR>
> friend, one of my<BR>
> future players.<BR>
> I would be most gratefull, for any help in this matter....<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hi Mike, <BR>
<BR>
I've actually got a couple of TNE Novels at home. I'll dig out ISBNs and<BR>
TItle for you tonight, if I remember.<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:01:46 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: tennou heika banzai<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 12:59:21 -0700<BR>
>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>Subject: tennou heika banzai<BR>
<BR>
>There's nothing in there about "ten thousand years" -- that'd be "okunen".<BR>
>But you're right about the rest and thank you for posting it<BR>
<BR>
do itashimashite (which just about exhausts my stock of conversational<BR>
Japanese).<BR>
<BR>
I've just looked the word up in an online dictionary and discovered<BR>
that the second syllable is actually "sai" (mutated to "zai" in<BR>
speech) which means "years old" or "years of age" rather than just<BR>
"years".  It's written with kanji 3A4D according to JIS encoding.<BR>
<BR>
The "ban" part is written with kanji 4B7C, which is translated as<BR>
10,000.  However, "man" is a more common pronounciation of that kanji<BR>
(and my own dictionary gives "man" as the translation of 10,000).<BR>
<BR>
So "banzai" means "10,000 years of age", and should actually be<BR>
pronounced "mansai"... <BR>
<BR>
(alternatively, the Japanese were shouting "banzai" back in AD 700<BR>
without the word actually having any meaning, and some scholar picked<BR>
the Chinese characters "man" and "sai" to write it with because he<BR>
thought the meaning seemed appropriate...)<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 10:20:33 -0500<BR>
From: adouglas@optonline.net<BR>
Subject: SM Star maps online? <BR>
<BR>
It's the newbie again...<BR>
<BR>
I'm starting up a straightforward CT campaign in the Spinward Marches.<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know of some good-quality maps of this region on-line? They're<BR>
in the CT books, of course, but they're too small to photocopy well.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks....<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Douglas<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:22:42 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: SM Star maps online? <BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: adouglas@optonline.net [mailto:adouglas@optonline.net]<BR>
> Sent: 30 August 2000 16:21<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: SM Star maps online? <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> It's the newbie again...<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm starting up a straightforward CT campaign in the Spinward Marches.<BR>
> <BR>
> Does anyone know of some good-quality maps of this region <BR>
> on-line? They're<BR>
> in the CT books, of course, but they're too small to photocopy well.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks....<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Here are a couple of good sites, by TML List members :)<BR>
<BR>
http://www.ghg.net/tmixon/Trade/<BR>
http://maps.grandsurvey.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:23:58 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Rare RPG stuff - Ringworld<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 8/29/00 8:12:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> RE: Rare RPG stuff<BR>
>  <BR>
<BR>
I think I still have a couple of extra photocopies running around <BR>
(photo-reduced, 2 for 1). Of course if I got a big enough offer..... (not)<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:05:44 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
>D&D still hasn't<BR>
gotten rid of many of these...<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<<BR>
<BR>
Actually the only one remaining is class-based rules which are not arbitrary<BR>
in the least. After all, not everyone can cast spells.<BR>
D&D is quite evolved now.<BR>
Of course, I don't think I'll be converting my Traveller game to the D20<BR>
system any time soon. :)<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:34:58 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
samwise1@email.msn.com wrote:<BR>
> >D&D still hasn't<BR>
> gotten rid of many of these...<BR>
<BR>
> Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
> Actually the only one remaining is class-based rules which are not arbitrary <BR>
> in the least. After all, not everyone can cast spells. <BR>
> D&D is quite evolved now. <BR>
> Of course, I don't think I'll be converting my Traveller game to the D20 <BR>
> system any time soon. :) <BR>
<BR>
Not to pick nits unnecessarily, but from my cursory glance-over of the D&D3 PHB at the FLGS (enough abbreviations?) it looked like levels (with experience points), arbitrary hit points, and armor that makes you harder to hit (early-rpg artifacts Charles C. mentioned) are still very much around (not to mention that old favorite, alignment).  In fact, as far as I can tell, the only really "evolutionary" step *D&D has taken in the last quarter century is to add a skill-based resolution system and loosen a few of the class-based restrictions, and it took them 20 years longer to do that than Traveller (in '77) and Runequest (in '78)!<BR>
<BR>
With that, you'll here no more D&D from me on this list.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:04:57<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Architecture resource (with floorplans)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:22 PM 8/29/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>The US Army Corps of Engineers publishes design guides for various types of<BR>
>public buildings at:<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.usace.army.mil/inet/usace-docs/design-guides/all.htm<BR>
<BR>
Now there's a nice resource.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Avoid small projects, they leave no mark on people's memories"<BR>
- - Daniel Burnham, San Francisco City Planner, 1907.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 11:10:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
At 06:44 PM 8/29/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Sorry about that.  I just felt the need to rant (I hope) humorously<BR>
>about conspiracy theory loons.  I feel much better now.<BR>
<BR>
Don't worry John, just keep reading alt.conspiracy for a few more months<BR>
and you'll get numb.<BR>
<BR>
Nice work though, been reading Secret Squirrel's rants again?<BR>
<BR>
(For thise who don't read a.c., Secret Squirrel is one of our prime<BR>
nutcases, who believes that everybody is out to get us, and he keeps<BR>
telling us to go get deputized and overthrow the state.  Our usual response<BR>
is "you first.")<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:54:51 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: [BITS] GenCon UK 2000 reminder.....<BR>
<BR>
Got the scenario today, so I'll see you on Saturday (unless I can get<BR>
in Thursday or Friday...)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Derrick<BR>
> Jones<BR>
> Sent: 28 August 2000 20:32<BR>
> To: 'TML'<BR>
> Subject: [BITS] GenCon UK 2000 reminder.....<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> With big thanks to Derrick Jones for letting me use his<BR>
> account while mine is down;<BR>
><BR>
> ----<BR>
><BR>
> BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>
> http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
><BR>
> Hi all,<BR>
><BR>
> BITS will be at GenCon UK from Thursday; we are based in<BR>
> the Esdevium<BR>
> Games area, and will be running demo games of Traveller (most<BR>
> versions), ACQ, and Traveller Full Thrust. In addition we<BR>
> are running<BR>
> three RPGA sponsored tournaments, including the infamous<BR>
> Traveller Fun<BR>
> (in the same vein as the 'White Dwarf' scenario we gave away last<BR>
> Christmas). I think we may beat the level of activity for Traveller<BR>
> at US GenCon 2000 :-/<BR>
><BR>
> Unofficially, there will probably be a 'get revenge on Nick<BR>
> Bradbeer'<BR>
> Mag*Blast! game, and seeing how late the bar stays open,<BR>
> and how many<BR>
> drinks the BITS crew can blag session.<BR>
><BR>
> Hopefully see you there!<BR>
><BR>
> Dom  - BITS Webmaster and General Dogsbody(*)<BR>
><BR>
> (*) Excellent, command rank at last!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Dom Mooney - http://www.bits.org.uk/ -<BR>
> http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com<BR>
> http://www.core.org.uk/ - 'Keeping the Flame'<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3001<BR>
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3001<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3002</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Wednesday, August 30 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3002<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
SF TMLers advice sought<BR>
Re: tennou heika banzai<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
RE: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
Re: Architecture resource (with floorplans)<BR>
Re: tennou heika banzai<BR>
Re: tennou heika banzai<BR>
Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
Re: For Striker : groovy grav tank<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
Re: Odd Weapons of the Resistance<BR>
Re: Weird Numerical Thingies (was: Fish and Beast Codes)<BR>
Re: Thanks for D&D info<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3001<BR>
Re: Thanks for D&D info<BR>
Re: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
Re: tennou heika banzai<BR>
RE: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
RE: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:03:05 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
<BR>
There's a link to a list??? If there is, you'll be in for a lot of<BR>
reading. If not, I suggest you start with the E.C. Tubb 'Dumarest<BR>
Saga' (there are 30-odd of these) and then go on to Jack Vance's<BR>
'Gaian Reach' stories, mixed with some of his 'Alastor' and 'Demon<BR>
Princes' books. I think you'll find there are about a dozen of those.<BR>
For the Imperium itself, I'd look at Piers Anthony's 'Tyrant'<BR>
trilogy - not really Traveller, but interesting as a resource - and<BR>
for the Ancients try Frederick Pohl's 'Blue Event Horizon' books.<BR>
<BR>
Hell, I'll stop there - just those would take you years.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> michael.scanlon<BR>
> Sent: 30 August 2000 13:53<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> hi there, ... just wanting to get a list out to a friend,<BR>
> of science fiction<BR>
> literature, which has a base relation to Traveller. Could<BR>
> naybody send me<BR>
> the link for any such list...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:14:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: SF TMLers advice sought<BR>
<BR>
I just found out from my boss that I am going to be in San Francisco<BR>
Tuesday-Thursday of next week in order to suck the brains of some<BR>
contractors.<BR>
<BR>
So are there any must visit gamesstores, bookstores, pubs, etc. in the<BR>
downtown area that you all would recomend?<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
===========================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 13:05:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: tennou heika banzai<BR>
<BR>
From: Stephen Tempest <stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: tennou heika banzai<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 12:59:21 -0700<BR>
>>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>>Subject: tennou heika banzai<BR>
><BR>
>>There's nothing in there about "ten thousand years" -- that'd be "okunen".<BR>
But you're right about the rest and thank you for posting it<BR>
>><BR>
>do itashimashite (which just about exhausts my stock of conversational<BR>
Japanese).<BR>
><BR>
>I've just looked the word up in an online dictionary and discovered that<BR>
the second syllable is actually "sai" (mutated to "zai" in speech) which<BR>
means "years old" or "years of age" rather than just "years".  It's written<BR>
with kanji 3A4D according to JIS encoding.<BR>
><BR>
Yeah, that makes sense.  I'd put it in here but most ppl wouldn't be able to<BR>
get it.  I was gonna see if I could find a way to make "banzai" mean 10000<BR>
years and that was the first route I thought of.  I've never seen "banzai"<BR>
written in kanji though-- it's usually written in big katakana in manga,<BR>
just as someone's about to go do something stoopid enough for your dumbest<BR>
PC to do.<BR>
<BR>
>The "ban" part is written with kanji 4B7C, which is translated as 10,000.<BR>
However, "man" is a more common pronounciation of that kanji (and my own<BR>
dictionary gives "man" as the translation of 10,000).<BR>
><BR>
Don't matter.  Pronunciations often mutate, and the m->b is one of the more<BR>
common ones.  It's an ON reading, or a Chinese reading, of the kanji in<BR>
question.  I can write it in kanji now and it does make sense.<BR>
<BR>
>So "banzai" means "10,000 years of age", and should actually be pronounced<BR>
"mansai"...<BR>
><BR>
Nah, it's pronounced "banzai"<BR>
<BR>
>(alternatively, the Japanese were shouting "banzai" back in AD 700 without<BR>
the word actually having any meaning, and some scholar picked the Chinese<BR>
characters "man" and "sai" to write it with because he thought the meaning<BR>
seemed appropriate...)<BR>
><BR>
This *is* entirely possible.<BR>
<BR>
LOL,<BR>
Kiri<BR>
>Stephen<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:20:50 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
<BR>
>> GDW was a game company for a while before they released<BR>
>>  Traveller, in which time the folks there presumably acquired a good deal<BR>
of<BR>
>>  experience in game design and presentation.<BR>
><BR>
>By the time Traveller came out, we had already produced an RPG -- An LTB<BR>
>(Little Cream Book) called En Garde!<BR>
<BR>
Then you guys did have a good deal of experience under your belt. :)<BR>
<BR>
I've always wanted to get a copy of En Garde!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:20:52 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collins wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>While the LBBs were remarkably clear and concise compared to the early D&D<BR>
>books, there was one aspect that confused me for a long time: Missiles in<BR>
>space combat.  Never did get Special Supplement 1, so I had no idea how<BR>
>missiles were supposed to work.  I ended up using my own improvised system<BR>
>of rolling for hits (as with lasers).  Later I switched to a modified<BR>
>version of High Guard.<BR>
<BR>
I seem to recall wondering where the rules for individual advancement were<BR>
when I finally got a look at the first three LBBs. That may have been<BR>
because I wasn't reading carefully enough. I seem to remember wondering<BR>
where the rules for healing were, but I may be confused there (it might have<BR>
been the first edition of Call of Cthulhu).<BR>
<BR>
>With the recent D&D 3rd ed., it occurred to me how ahead of its time<BR>
>Traveller was:  No levels, a skill-based system, a universal (if informal)<BR>
>dicing mechanic for task resolution, damage that degraded abilities, some<BR>
>idea of character background, no arbitrary class-based rules (can you<BR>
>imagine "Scouts can't use automatic weapons" or "Merchants can only wear<BR>
>reflec armor"? :-), etc.  The only "early RPG" aspect was having armor<BR>
>make you harder to hit, rather than absorbing damage.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I'm a big fan of arbitrary class-based rules. That's because I<BR>
understand what they're there for. Classes, and their restrictions,<BR>
certainly don't add to the "realism" of a game, but they do add to the<BR>
overall playability of a game. They provide clearcut in game roles to<BR>
individual characters during play. This is a really good thing, especially<BR>
when you're going to run a game with one or more neophytes.<BR>
<BR>
This is one of the reasons I have a "love / hate" relationship with the<BR>
Classic Traveller character generation system. I "love" it because when it<BR>
works, it spits out really interesting characters. I "hate" it because<BR>
there's no real safeguard against the system spitting out two different<BR>
characters with overlapping skill sets, or with no real "role" to play in an<BR>
adventuring party. Characters with overlapping skill-sets mean that one or<BR>
more characters will be out of action at various times, for obvious reasons.<BR>
On the other hand, characters with no real niche in an adventuring party<BR>
just get left out entirely.<BR>
<BR>
In each campaign I run, I try to bring one or more new players into the<BR>
fold. Unlike a lot of other GMs, I pay attention to the complaints of my<BR>
players. The first thing I've learned is that new players don't tend to<BR>
complain as much when playing D&D. After much careful thought, I've<BR>
discovered that it's because they are too busy actually playing. They can<BR>
fall in and march with the "big dogs" of my campaigns, people who have been<BR>
playing for fifteen to twenty years. The newbies may have a few problems<BR>
adjusting, but for the most part, the system is such that a neophyte player<BR>
can fill a niche with experienced players.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, I would be very leery about running a game of Traveller<BR>
with one or more neophytes. Even experienced players begin to get a bit<BR>
antsy when their characters don't get enough "screen time", that is to say<BR>
that they don't have enough of an impact on the game session. I've found<BR>
that this happens all too frequently in my Traveller games. Overlapping<BR>
skill-sets are one part of the problem (characters with a certain skill may<BR>
simply "sit around" while someone with a higher skill level in the same<BR>
skill goes and does a given task). An experienced player may compensate<BR>
somewhat, but for someone just learning the ropes, this sort of thing just<BR>
sucks. Similarly, a character with no well defined niche, especially one of<BR>
those "wet behind the ears" types that you get from the various Traveller<BR>
generation systems (y'know, 1 term, with admin-1) is a terribly bad<BR>
character to play if the player is also wet behind the ears. "Wake me up<BR>
when you need admin" and all that.<BR>
<BR>
I think that there are real advantages to both class-based and a<BR>
non-class-based systems. In general, I tend to favor a class-based mentality<BR>
because they're often the easiest for me as a GM to figure out where some of<BR>
the problems and potential problems will crop up two or three months of<BR>
gaming down the line. With something like D&D or Cyberpunk, it's much easier<BR>
to understand how to envision and integrate the various classes into gaming<BR>
sessions. With games like GURPS or Traveller, it's tougher to get a real<BR>
feel for how the characters should "develop".<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind, I do have a distinct bias towards game-like playability as<BR>
opposed to realistic simulation (I guess I'm more of a "gamist" than a<BR>
"simulationist" to borrow terms from rec.frp.advocacy), so your own mileage<BR>
may vary considerably. For the most part, I view role-playing as an excuse<BR>
to get a bunch of my friends around a table, face-to-face, in a non-bar<BR>
environment.<BR>
<BR>
I've had a good time running games with both styles of character generation,<BR>
so I'm not being nasty or claiming that Traveller is completely unplayable.<BR>
I tend not to talk about role-playing games in terms of "technological<BR>
development". It has become popular in recent years to break systems down<BR>
into "generations", for example. I'm not to fond of that because there's the<BR>
usually unspoken assumption that a later generation equates with "better".<BR>
On the other hand, lots of people who do that also make their own favorite<BR>
game out to be the pinnacle of role-playing development. I don't really tend<BR>
to play "favorites", and it's very easy for me to find something appealing<BR>
about any role-playing system or background.<BR>
<BR>
>D&D still hasn't gotten rid of many of these...<BR>
<BR>
That's because there's a fifth column of folks who actually like some of<BR>
these elements, like myself. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:02:57 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
>Not to pick nits unnecessarily, but from my cursory glance-over of the D&D3<BR>
PHB at the FLGS (enough abbreviations?) it looked like levels (with<BR>
experience points), arbitrary hit points, and armor that makes you harder to<BR>
hit (early-rpg artifacts Charles C. mentioned) are still very much around<BR>
(not to mention that old favorite, alignment). <<BR>
<BR>
Levels are used for character development and growth. If anything, that<BR>
should be noted as the one failure of CT. You generated a character and then<BR>
never changed, you just added treasure.<BR>
HP are always arbitrary. In CT it is based exclusively on your initial<BR>
ability rolls.<BR>
CT armor makes you harder to hit as well so this is irrelevant in<BR>
comparison.<BR>
Overall, these is really only one difference and that is the level system.<BR>
<BR>
>In fact, as far as I can tell, the only really "evolutionary" step *D&D has<BR>
taken in the last quarter century is to add a skill-based resolution system<BR>
and loosen a few of the class-based restrictions, and it took them 20 years<BR>
longer to do that than Traveller (in '77) and Runequest (in '78)!<<BR>
<BR>
Actually the concept of easily changing class has never really entered<BR>
Traveller. The systems for switching careers during character generation<BR>
were never really elegant.<BR>
I won't argue the time frame however. But that was a mangement issue more<BR>
than a design issue.<BR>
<BR>
Again, this doesn't mean I'd want to see a class system in Traveller. I<BR>
don't think it would work properly because of the differences in genre. A<BR>
level system might be nice though, if only to manage character development.<BR>
Of course, I like my Traveller a bit more on the Space Opera than hard<BR>
sci-fi, so that kind of serious character advancement seems part and parcel<BR>
to the genre.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:19:12 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Architecture resource (with floorplans)<BR>
<BR>
> >The US Army Corps of Engineers publishes design guides for various types<BR>
of<BR>
> >public buildings at:<BR>
<BR>
Well done that man. After I get back from GenCon I'm going to trawl that<BR>
site with a Zipdisk.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:30:10 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: tennou heika banzai<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> >So "banzai" means "10,000 years of age", and should actually be pronounced<BR>
> "mansai"...<BR>
> ><BR>
> Nah, it's pronounced "banzai"<BR>
<BR>
To add to the confusion, T.R. Fehrenbach, in _This Kind of War: A Study<BR>
in Unpreparedness_ (the definitive Korean War account, IMHO) mentions<BR>
that the Koreans use "manzai" (he translates it as "Hoorah!").<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:15:32 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: tennou heika banzai<BR>
<BR>
At 5:30 PM -0500 8/30/00, John Groth wrote:<BR>
>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
>  ><BR>
><<snip>><BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > >So "banzai" means "10,000 years of age", and should actually be pronounced<BR>
>  > "mansai"...<BR>
>  > ><BR>
>  > Nah, it's pronounced "banzai"<BR>
><BR>
>To add to the confusion, T.R. Fehrenbach, in _This Kind of War: A Study<BR>
>in Unpreparedness_ (the definitive Korean War account, IMHO) mentions<BR>
>that the Koreans use "manzai" (he translates it as "Hoorah!").<BR>
<BR>
I have discovered the truth!  Everything you have read or heard is all<BR>
lies!  You all must listen to me!  These are secret invocations to the<BR>
secret masters, the illuminat*7 8($&9^#...<BR>
<No Carrier><BR>
<BR>
<FNORD><BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry, I've had some corruption in my e-mail account, there<BR>
maybe some gibberish.  Please ignore it....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:31:59 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> This is remember old games nite for the duk -<BR>
><BR>
> We had an Aslan. Much confusion usually abounded when ever he counted<BR>
> anything (the Player could actually figure base 8 fairly quickly in his<BR>
> head)<BR>
><BR>
> "11 missiles incoming!"<BR>
><BR>
> "11? I only see 10 - where is the other one???" (fighter pilot looking<BR>
> around frantically)<BR>
<BR>
Either the fighter pilot sees a missile the Aslan didn't or that should<BR>
have been "12 missles incoming!". 11 base 8 = 9 base 10.<BR>
And 10 base ten = 12 base 8.<BR>
<BR>
> or<BR>
><BR>
> " He told me that the box was 17 over from the right.. but the guns are not<BR>
> in this DAMN BOX!!!"<BR>
<BR>
So look in box 15. :-)<BR>
(8 + 7 = 15)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:35:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: For Striker : groovy grav tank<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> They were in sight of each other, a few hundred meters to a KM.<BR>
<BR>
That's enough to need corrections due to orbital mechanics. Especially<BR>
since high speed makes it *worse*.<BR>
<BR>
Common comment by folks who live in orbital habs: <BR>
<BR>
	"People who grow up in gravity wells have a distorted<BR>
	notion of physics"<BR>
<BR>
> IIRC that<BR>
> the nuke was a .01 kt (or other infantery support type weapon). The marine<BR>
> was the only person on the skin of the well armored PC's ship (eacept poor<BR>
> bubbles). From what I have seen of the 'near misses' of the re-supply ships<BR>
> and MIR it could have worked out. With the acceleration of the round and the<BR>
> short range, well, I fudged it :)<BR>
<BR>
Still be a nasty rad dose. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:42:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 29-Aug-00 6:35:10 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> GDW was a game company for a while before they released<BR>
>>  Traveller, in which time the folks there presumably acquired a good<BR>
>> deal of experience in game design and presentation.<BR>
><BR>
> By the time Traveller came out, we had already produced an RPG -- An LTB <BR>
> (Little Cream Book) called En Garde!<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I bought two copies. One for myself and one to give to a lady in<BR>
my gaming group who was also a fencer.<BR>
<BR>
Y'know, I wonder how hard it'd be to "update" En Garde to cover the<BR>
goings on around the Imperial court. <eg><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:47:57 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Odd Weapons of the Resistance<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:36:45 -0700, "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella"<BR>
> <xrp@sierratel.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Via electronic medium on 8/27/00 3:54 AM, shadow@krypton.rain.com issued<BR>
>> forth:<BR>
><BR>
>>> It's a flour that doubles as an explosive. It's about half as powerful<BR>
>>> as an equal amount of TNT. It looks like flour, you can even make bread<BR>
>>> with it. And it's edible, though probably not terribly nourishing.<BR>
><BR>
>> Does it retain its explosive nature after cooking? Can it be used for paper<BR>
>> mache'?<BR>
><BR>
> From page 87, _CIA Special Weapons and Equipment: Spy Devices of the<BR>
> ColdWar_, (c) 1993 by H. Keith Melton<BR>
><BR>
> EXPLOSIVE FLOUR<BR>
><BR>
> DESCRIPTION: T Explosive Flour is composition RDX pigmentized (80<BR>
> percent), wheat flour (20 percent); powder form,five pounds per<BR>
> paper bag.<BR>
<BR>
That stuff would be a lot *more* powerful than TNT! At least if I<BR>
recall the "strength" of RDX correctly.<BR>
<BR>
> <snip><BR>
> On Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:53:03 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
> Erickson) wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>>> Does the bread explode with a blasting cap? :-)<BR>
><BR>
>> Not sure. The *dough* will. I'd think all the airspaces after the bread<BR>
>> rises would tend to ruin the effect. Then again, you could always mash<BR>
>> it flat first...<BR>
><BR>
> (continued from above) .............. The product looks, feels and<BR>
>     tastes like bread; however, IT IS HIGHLY TOXIC and SHOULD NOT BE<BR>
>     EATEN.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting. The stuff the OSS used was actually eaten. Some Chinese<BR>
cooks ate some biscuits made with the stuff and suffered no ill<BR>
effects. They ate it against orders to the contrary. And being<BR>
non-toxic was one of the *requirements* in the original OSS "specs".<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:56:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Numerical Thingies (was: Fish and Beast Codes)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> It can get even stranger than that if you mess with the value of pi! :-)<BR>
> How can pi vary?  Well, it depends on the curvature on which you typically<BR>
> draw.  If you draw things on spheres, pi=2 (the ratio between an "equator"<BR>
> and the perpendicular "half-equator").  Of course, circles at higher<BR>
> latitudes will have a pi equivalent which approaches 3.1415...<BR>
> assymptotically without ever reaching it.  Could make for truly bizarre<BR>
> mathematical systems...<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but what you are describing *isn't* pi. The value of pi *is*<BR>
equal to the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle in<BR>
a Euclidean plane. But pi itself is defined otherwise in "real math".<BR>
<BR>
Among other things: i^i = e^(-pi/2)<BR>
<BR>
So those math systems are in the same league as the one where 2+2 =3,<BR>
and 3+3 =4. You actually *can* base a math system around that sort of<BR>
thing, but it won't be very useful.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:02:03 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thanks for D&D info<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> 2) 'Chainmail' + D&D: Not as compatible as the rules lead you to believe.<BR>
> Those Chainmail values on pp. 17-18 are mostly for tabletop conversions, and<BR>
> for most combat you use the Alternate Combat System.  I can buy this, since<BR>
> the Chainmail system isn't versatile enough to handle many of D&D's<BR>
> monsters, but I don't like the ACS (which evolved into the AD&D combat<BR>
> system, which I don't like either -- RQ all the way!)<BR>
<BR>
Ever check out Tunnels & Trolls? It simplfies combat *almost* to the<BR>
point of absudity. But that lets you resolve the combat quickly and get<BR>
on with the exploration or role-playing.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:27:15 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3001<BR>
<BR>
> Something that has always made me wonder...Why are air/rafts called<BR>
>  air/rafts with the */*  in the name?<BR>
<BR>
"Because that's how the word is spelled  . . . geez, some people . . ."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Marc wanted it that way. Ask him why he did it -- he explained to me once, <BR>
but I've forgotten.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:47:30 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Thanks for D&D info<BR>
<BR>
> Ever check out Tunnels & Trolls? It simplfies combat *almost* to the<BR>
> point of absudity. But that lets you resolve the combat quickly and get<BR>
> on with the exploration or role-playing.<BR>
> <BR>
And it is $10 US at www.flyingbuffalo.com <BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:11:38 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> There's a link to a list??? If there is, you'll be in for a lot of<BR>
> reading. If not, I suggest you start with the E.C. Tubb 'Dumarest<BR>
> Saga' (there are 30-odd of these) and then go on to Jack Vance's<BR>
> 'Gaian Reach' stories, mixed with some of his 'Alastor' and 'Demon<BR>
> Princes' books. I think you'll find there are about a dozen of those.<BR>
> For the Imperium itself, I'd look at Piers Anthony's 'Tyrant'<BR>
> trilogy - not really Traveller, but interesting as a resource - and<BR>
> for the Ancients try Frederick Pohl's 'Blue Event Horizon' books.<BR>
<BR>
Also, Andre Norton's *science fiction* (not the Witch World books and<BR>
similar fantasy) are rather obviously among the "sources" that<BR>
Traveller grew from. <BR>
<BR>
Ditto for a lot of Poul Anderson's stuff, especially the Flandry books<BR>
and the Poleseotechnic(sp?) League stories.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 17:18:10 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: tennou heika banzai<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>(alternatively, the Japanese were shouting "banzai" back in AD 700 without<BR>
> the word actually having any meaning, and some scholar picked the Chinese<BR>
> characters "man" and "sai" to write it with because he thought the meaning<BR>
> seemed appropriate...)<BR>
>><BR>
> This *is* entirely possible.<BR>
<BR>
Check out why "eye-land" is spelled "island". <BR>
<BR>
Seems that after the Norman conquest, somebody conflated the French<BR>
word "isle" and the Anglo-Saxon word "iland"(don't quote me on the<BR>
spelling). <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 19:21:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
<BR>
I never said that _I_ could do base 8..<BR>
<BR>
lol<BR>
<BR>
Sheeseh :)<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
> We had an Aslan. Much confusion usually abounded when ever he counted<BR>
> anything (the Player could actually figure base 8 fairly quickly in his<BR>
> head)<BR>
><BR>
> "11 missiles incoming!"<BR>
><BR>
> "11? I only see 10 - where is the other one???" (fighter pilot looking<BR>
> around frantically)<BR>
<BR>
Either the fighter pilot sees a missile the Aslan didn't or that should<BR>
have been "12 missles incoming!". 11 base 8 = 9 base 10.<BR>
And 10 base ten = 12 base 8.<BR>
<BR>
> or<BR>
><BR>
> " He told me that the box was 17 over from the right.. but the guns are<BR>
not<BR>
> in this DAMN BOX!!!"<BR>
<BR>
So look in box 15. :-)<BR>
(8 + 7 = 15)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:47:18 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
<BR>
>hi there, ... just wanting to get a list out to a friend, of science<BR>
fiction<BR>
>literature, which has a base relation to Traveller. Could naybody send me<BR>
>the link for any such list. I have seen some titles in the past. I would if<BR>
>I had the time, gdig through the lot, though it is for a friend, one of my<BR>
>future players.<BR>
>I would be most gratefull, for any help in this matter....<BR>
<BR>
I've never personally seen a collected list of books which Traveller was<BR>
influenced by. I think that the most obvious influence is Asimov's<BR>
Foundation trilogy (I know, it's more than a trilogy these days, but I don't<BR>
believe the rest of the books were out in time to influence the game). I<BR>
believe Loren acknowledged the strong influence of this trilogy at one point<BR>
or another.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:54:49 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
<BR>
>>This is a very convoluted subject that is not really well handled in GT.<BR>
>>According to GT all maneuvering drive reactionless thrusters use vectored<BR>
>>thrust. However none of the very fine illustrations show any kind of<BR>
>>mechanism for providing vectored thrust. There are no ducts or pivoting<BR>
>>engine mounts. Furthermore almost all of the craft show what appear to be<BR>
>>small maneuvering thrusters, such as might be used to change the craft's<BR>
>>attitude while in flight, a system that is not described at all in part of<BR>
>>the GT ship design sequence.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Well, illustrations, (from CT to GT) have never been any use as<BR>
>technical info, or even totally consistent with the rules.<BR>
>Equipment is always presented as vague blocky shapes in an "engineering"<BR>
>section regardless of the supposed technology.  This applies<BR>
>to maneuver and jump drives in spite of the presence of vectored<BR>
>thrust in GT, thruster plates in MT, jump grids in MT and GT (?),<BR>
>etc.  Often the power plant doesn't even make it in...<BR>
><BR>
>OTOH, it isn't know what it takes to make a maneuver drive.  Maybe<BR>
>there is a big blob one place and the small pieces of equipment<BR>
>other places.  Maybe a jump drive does take a big blob that connects<BR>
>to the jump grid?  Maybe a lot of those blobs are power plant stuff?<BR>
>All the diagrams are low enough "resolution" that  you can fit<BR>
>a lot of moderate size component and claim they wouldn't show up....<BR>
<BR>
Now that I've managed to get the MegaTraveller Starship Operator's Manual I<BR>
have everything I need to almost have technical equipment consistent with<BR>
any rule set I want to use. OOPS it must all be in Volume 2. :)<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, I assume Volume 2 was never issued?<BR>
<BR>
If I take the information in SOM and apply it to GURPS (which is no doubt<BR>
legal as long as it's only IMTU) it appears that reactionless thrusters do<BR>
not have to physically pivot to apply thrust in just about any direction. Or<BR>
at least a percentage of thrust. Orientation seems to be taken care of by an<BR>
inertial gyroscope that uses a high speed gyro (possibly superdense) with<BR>
gravitic inertial compensators for emergency braking. SOM says that such<BR>
systems are limited to non-civilian ships due to cost. Both ship types have<BR>
gas-jet attitude control systems. (Military craft for backup.)  I guess I<BR>
can design a Gyro module for GURPS, if I want to use it, or count it as part<BR>
of the Utilities module.<BR>
<BR>
Speaking to a discussion Leonard and I had last week, SOM includes<BR>
Densitometers and Neutrino detectors as options for ***Military*** vessels.<BR>
It also states that Densitometers can detect artificial gravity fields, at<BR>
up to 50,000 km, but also says that the detector itself must be gravity<BR>
shielded from the artificial gravity of the ship it's installed in. I would<BR>
take that to mean that it is possible to shield gravity tech from detection<BR>
instruments. I suppose for GURPS we could say that such shielding is<BR>
included in emission masking. The range of neutrino detection is not given,<BR>
though the text says that these detectors can detect a ship powerplant at<BR>
ranges beyond any other type of detector. I don't have my GT book handy so I<BR>
don't know how that relates to the GT Rad Detector.<BR>
<BR>
Is any of this stuff in other (non-forbidden sources?) There's a lot of<BR>
great stuff here and it would be a shame to lose it all.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in<BR>
California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3002<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3003</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	8/31/00 10:33:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, August 31 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3003<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
Re: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
Re: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
sorta RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
RE: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
En garde!<BR>
Opps<BR>
newbie post: pbem traveller?<BR>
Re: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
Re: Base 8<BR>
En Garde at the Imperial Court   was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
Re: newbie post: pbem traveller?<BR>
2 Things<BR>
Re: 2 Things<BR>
RE: 2 Things<BR>
Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
RE:Causality(was  Babelfish )<BR>
Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
Science, History, Politics, Philosophy and Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:17:21 -0400<BR>
From: Andrew Douglas <adouglas@optonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
<BR>
FWIW, I find a lot of resonance with Larry Niven's Known Space (e.g.<BR>
Ringworld, Protector, etc.) and CoDominium (Mote in God's Eye) when it comes<BR>
to Traveller. The feel of the universe to me is much the same.<BR>
<BR>
I've even told my PCs to go read Niven. I doubt they will (they're not that<BR>
involved yet), but if they do they'll get a lot of inside information.<BR>
<BR>
I've always found Niven to have the best alien races (i.e. not "men in alien<BR>
suits", as depicted in Star Wars and almost all of Star Trek, but truly<BR>
alien races complete with well conceived alien societies, biologies and<BR>
motivations... can it be that the Aslan aren't derived from the Kzinti?) and<BR>
the best thought-out hard technology.<BR>
<BR>
Most of Niven's leading characters would feel very much at home in a<BR>
Traveller setting. Geez, there's even a (very) rough equivalent to the<BR>
Ancients.<BR>
<BR>
In my TU, the details tend to revert to Niven conventions. Maneuver drives<BR>
are fusion rockets. Jump Space acts like Niven's, complete with the Blind<BR>
Spot. Professional spacers act like Belters. Humans suffer some<BR>
disorientation when dropping out of Jump.<BR>
<BR>
If I can figure out a way to play a Pierson's Puppeteer really well, I'll<BR>
insert one sometime.<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Douglas<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:24:52 -0500<BR>
From: Bill Hopper <whopper@pobox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
<BR>
Also CJ Cherryh's science fiction (she also did a lot of fantasy) and<BR>
almost anything by Larry Niven, especially when in collaboration with Jerry<BR>
Pournelle.<BR>
<BR>
WKH<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > There's a link to a list??? If there is, you'll be in for a lot of<BR>
> > reading. If not, I suggest you start with the E.C. Tubb 'Dumarest<BR>
> > Saga' (there are 30-odd of these) and then go on to Jack Vance's<BR>
> > 'Gaian Reach' stories, mixed with some of his 'Alastor' and 'Demon<BR>
> > Princes' books. I think you'll find there are about a dozen of those.<BR>
> > For the Imperium itself, I'd look at Piers Anthony's 'Tyrant'<BR>
> > trilogy - not really Traveller, but interesting as a resource - and<BR>
> > for the Ancients try Frederick Pohl's 'Blue Event Horizon' books.<BR>
><BR>
> Also, Andre Norton's *science fiction* (not the Witch World books and<BR>
> similar fantasy) are rather obviously among the "sources" that<BR>
> Traveller grew from.<BR>
><BR>
> Ditto for a lot of Poul Anderson's stuff, especially the Flandry books<BR>
> and the Poleseotechnic(sp?) League stories.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 04:44:34 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
<BR>
That was the thing I remember most about starting Traveller, the<BR>
background was instantly familiar. High, middle and low passage<BR>
from Dumerest, the Scouts (or Patrol) from Andre Norton. Jump<BR>
from Cherryh (or so it it seemed to me at the time).<BR>
<BR>
When I started GMing I ripped off huge swathes of Norton, Catseye,<BR>
Galactic Patrol. <BR>
<BR>
Did I mention that IIRC 'freshers' were from Norton as well, as were<BR>
underground Psionics. Blasters, Flamers, flitters and a lot of adult stuff<BR>
I think I may have missed the first time round (aged 11).<BR>
<BR>
Bugger. I think I'll have to find them and read them again.<BR>
<BR>
BTW: I don't like Norton or Cheryth's fantasy stuff but I eat up their<BR>
SF.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 2:11 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > There's a link to a list??? If there is, you'll be in for a lot of<BR>
> > reading. If not, I suggest you start with the E.C. Tubb 'Dumarest<BR>
> > Saga' (there are 30-odd of these) and then go on to Jack Vance's<BR>
> > 'Gaian Reach' stories, mixed with some of his 'Alastor' and 'Demon<BR>
> > Princes' books. I think you'll find there are about a dozen of those.<BR>
> > For the Imperium itself, I'd look at Piers Anthony's 'Tyrant'<BR>
> > trilogy - not really Traveller, but interesting as a resource - and<BR>
> > for the Ancients try Frederick Pohl's 'Blue Event Horizon' books.<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, Andre Norton's *science fiction* (not the Witch World books and<BR>
> similar fantasy) are rather obviously among the "sources" that<BR>
> Traveller grew from. <BR>
> <BR>
> Ditto for a lot of Poul Anderson's stuff, especially the Flandry books<BR>
> and the Poleseotechnic(sp?) League stories.<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 23:58:18 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: sorta RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
<BR>
Terry C sez:<BR>
<BR>
>Speaking to a discussion Leonard and I had last week, SOM includes<BR>
>Densitometers and Neutrino detectors as options for ***Military*** vessels.<BR>
>It also states that Densitometers can detect artificial gravity fields, at<BR>
>up to 50,000 km, but also says that the detector itself must be gravity<BR>
>shielded from the artificial gravity of the ship it's installed in. I would<BR>
>take that to mean that it is possible to shield gravity tech from detection<BR>
>instruments. I suppose for GURPS we could say that such shielding is<BR>
>included in emission masking. The range of neutrino detection is not given,<BR>
>though the text says that these detectors can detect a ship powerplant at<BR>
>ranges beyond any other type of detector. I don't have my GT book handy so I<BR>
>don't know how that relates to the GT Rad Detector.<BR>
<BR>
 Both of these were toned down quite a bit in TNE, as both qualify as "super <BR>
sensors". Densitometers had their range and resolution reduced (or rather, <BR>
you can have one or the other, but not both), while Neutrino sensors were <BR>
summarily moved into "scientific/survey" equipment, since we use <BR>
multi-million cubic-meter detectors and can barely detect the SUN, much less <BR>
some penny-ante fusion powerplant. A sensor the size of a bathtub is <BR>
pointless by comparison...<BR>
<BR>
 Since I'm not a big fan of sensors that can detect a cloaked ship current <BR>
location at two light years range (ST:TNG reference, BTW), I LIKED this <BR>
change in TNE, and still use it...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:04:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I never said that _I_ could do base 8..<BR>
><BR>
> lol<BR>
><BR>
> Sheeseh :)<BR>
<BR>
Pick up an old "progammer's calculator". They'll convert between<BR>
binary, octal, decimal and hex. And do calcs in any of them.<BR>
<BR>
I'm using a TI-35 Plus, and I've got a *much* older TI Programmer.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:27:38 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller, Science Fiction Literature<BR>
<BR>
Mark Preston wrote :<BR>
 <BR>
> There's a link to a list??? If there is, you'll be in for a lot of<BR>
> reading. If not, I suggest you start with the E.C. Tubb 'Dumarest<BR>
> Saga' (there are 30-odd of these) and then go on to Jack Vance's<BR>
> 'Gaian Reach' stories, mixed with some of his 'Alastor' and 'Demon<BR>
> Princes' books. I think you'll find there are about a dozen of those.<BR>
> For the Imperium itself, I'd look at Piers Anthony's 'Tyrant'<BR>
> trilogy - not really Traveller, but interesting as a resource - and<BR>
> for the Ancients try Frederick Pohl's 'Blue Event Horizon' books.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hell, I'll stop there - just those would take you years.<BR>
<BR>
And you stopped without including the Dominic Flandry series too !<BR>
<BR>
Frankie <BR>
<BR>
Vist Munden's Bar at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie<BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:44:13 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
Marc Millar has graciously given me permission to release my High Guard <BR>
Shipyard version 1.0. This release will allow the design of ships according <BR>
to the 2nd Edition High Guard rules (including the racial effects from Alien <BR>
Modules 2, 5 and 7). I am in the process of setting up a download site at <BR>
my website at Downport and it should be up within the next few hours.<BR>
<BR>
Also, Marc has also given me permission to release the beta version of my <BR>
Trillion Credit Squadron Designer. This is not a finished product (very much <BR>
not finished), but when finished will allow ships designed in the ship <BR>
designer to be put together into squadrons for TCS.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:03:41 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Speaking to a discussion Leonard and I had last week, SOM includes<BR>
> Densitometers and Neutrino detectors as options for <BR>
> ***Military*** vessels.<BR>
> It also states that Densitometers can detect artificial <BR>
> gravity fields, at<BR>
> up to 50,000 km, but also says that the detector itself must <BR>
> be gravity<BR>
> shielded from the artificial gravity of the ship it's <BR>
> installed in. I would<BR>
> take that to mean that it is possible to shield gravity tech <BR>
> from detection<BR>
> instruments. I suppose for GURPS we could say that such shielding is<BR>
> included in emission masking. The range of neutrino detection <BR>
> is not given,<BR>
> though the text says that these detectors can detect a ship <BR>
> powerplant at<BR>
> ranges beyond any other type of detector. I don't have my GT <BR>
> book handy so I<BR>
> don't know how that relates to the GT Rad Detector.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
The GT Rad detector has a SHORTER range than other sensors, IIRC<BR>
<BR>
Dean <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:10:24 +0100<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: En garde!<BR>
<BR>
I have en garde - played in zines for some years.<BR>
<BR>
And if someone wanted to run an Imperial Court game... I'd want in, I<BR>
thiink!<BR>
<BR>
MJD<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:00:08 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Opps<BR>
<BR>
On 31 Aug 00, at 18:44, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Marc Millar has graciously given me permission to release my High <BR>
Guard <BR>
> Shipyard version 1.0. This release will allow the design of ships <BR>
according to<BR>
> the 2nd Edition High Guard rules (including the racial effects from Alien<BR>
> Modules 2, 5 and 7). I am in the process of setting up a download site at <BR>
my<BR>
> website at Downport and it should be up within the next few hours.<BR>
<BR>
Opps, put the wrong file up (the Beta of TCS). Fixed now. But anyhow, if <BR>
anyone would like to test the beta of TCS, please drop me an email.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 02:35:13 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Wade <wade@muppetlabs.com><BR>
Subject: newbie post: pbem traveller?<BR>
<BR>
i used to play a fair amount of traveller and i've only recently<BR>
discovered this list.  can anyone provide insightas to where i might find<BR>
a play by email traveller game to get involved in?<BR>
<BR>
my apologies if i've missed the obvious location for the answer to this<BR>
question.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:08:28 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Speaking to a discussion Leonard and I had last week, SOM includes<BR>
> Densitometers and Neutrino detectors as options for ***Military*** vessels.<BR>
> It also states that Densitometers can detect artificial gravity fields, at<BR>
> up to 50,000 km, but also says that the detector itself must be gravity<BR>
> shielded from the artificial gravity of the ship it's installed in. I would<BR>
> take that to mean that it is possible to shield gravity tech from detection<BR>
> instruments.<BR>
<BR>
No, it's more a case of "subtracting" the known field (complete with<BR>
fluctuations!) of the ships gravity from the signals the detector is<BR>
receiving. <BR>
<BR>
Rather like the way high speed modems subtract the signal the are<BR>
sending from the signal they read from the phone line, which gives them<BR>
the signal from the other modem. Tap the line and it's *much* harder to<BR>
recover the signals from either modem.<BR>
<BR>
It's not canon, but it makes sense.<BR>
<BR>
> I suppose for GURPS we could say that such shielding is included in<BR>
> emission masking.<BR>
<BR>
I'd say that it's not possible to truly *shield* CG or manuever drive<BR>
emission effects on space time (which is what densitometers read) and<BR>
still have them *work*.<BR>
<BR>
Shielding the effects of the *internal* field is easy, *because* it's<BR>
internal, no effect on anything outside the ship.<BR>
<BR>
So you can lie doggo without being in free fall. If your ship's<BR>
aritifical grav generators are properly "tuned", anyway. A good reason<BR>
not to skimp on maintenance!<BR>
<BR>
But turn on the thruster plates, or the CG and you light up like a neon<BR>
sign.<BR>
<BR>
I think that's a reasonable balance between likely "reality" and game<BR>
balance. <BR>
<BR>
BTW, going outside the ship either requires transition areas (ie areas<BR>
where the gravity drops gradually) or both considerable effort (and<BR>
hazard). But the transition field is more likely to "leak" in a way<BR>
that can be detected. So do you put the whole ship in zero gee, risk<BR>
getting detected, or risk the personnel how have to go out and make the<BR>
repairs on the hull? <eg><BR>
<BR>
> The range of neutrino detection is not given, though the text says<BR>
> that these detectors can detect a ship powerplant at ranges beyond<BR>
> any other type of detector. <BR>
<BR>
Given that neutrinos aren't stopped by much of anything, *and* that the<BR>
detectors can easily detect tiny numbers of them *somehow*, yeah,<BR>
they'd have a pretty long range.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 08:45:42 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
<BR>
<Leonard><BR>
> It can get even stranger than that if you mess with the valueof pi! :-)<BR>
> How can pi vary?  Well, it depends on the curvature on which youtypically<BR>
> draw.  If you draw things on spheres, pi=2 (the ratio between an"equator"<BR>
> and the perpendicular "half-equator").  Of course, circles at higher<BR>
> latitudes will have a pi equivalent which approaches 3.1415...<BR>
> assymptotically without ever reaching it.  Could make for truly bizarre<BR>
> mathematical systems...<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but what you are describing *isn't* pi. The value of pi *is*<BR>
equal to the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle in<BR>
a Euclidean plane. But pi itself is defined otherwise in "real math".<BR>
<BR>
Among other things: i^i = e^(-pi/2)<BR>
<BR>
So those math systems are in the same league as the one where 2+2 =3,<BR>
and 3+3 =4. You actually *can* base a math system around that sort of<BR>
thing, but it won't be very useful.<BR>
</Leonard><BR>
<BR>
Well, you'll have to take that up with the *advanced mathematics* prof I<BR>
was paraphrasing, he seemed to think it *was* pi and he seemed to<BR>
think it *was* useful...<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 08:50:25 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Base 8<BR>
<BR>
> > We had an Aslan. Much confusion usually abounded when ever he counted<BR>
>  > anything (the Player could actually figure base 8 fairly quickly in his<BR>
>  > head)<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > "11 missiles incoming!"<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > "11? I only see 10 - where is the other one???" (fighter pilot looking<BR>
>  > around frantically)<BR>
<BR>
"You can't take 3 from 2, 2 is less than 3, <BR>
so you look at the 4 in the eights place, <BR>
Now, that's really 4 eights, so you make it 3 eights, <BR>
regroup and you change an eight to eight ones . . . "<BR>
Tom Lehrer's _New Math_ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:52:43 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: En Garde at the Imperial Court   was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson<BR>
> Yes, I bought two copies. One for myself and one to give to a lady in<BR>
> my gaming group who was also a fencer.<BR>
<BR>
I lost my copy for a couple of years, so I bought another.  The other one<BR>
showed up eventually, so I've got two.<BR>
 <BR>
> Y'know, I wonder how hard it'd be to "update" En Garde to cover the<BR>
> goings on around the Imperial court. <eg><BR>
<BR>
This is of course a very obvious idea.  Back in the MT days, there was a<BR>
EG/MT cross published in Challenge set in a very aristocratic Naval Academy<BR>
setting.  Personally, I start thinking about Trav/EG crossovers every time<BR>
I see my EG books:  they are mixed in with my CT books.<BR>
<BR>
Some points:  the Social Standing systems are quite different.  It might be<BR>
possible to convert across though.  Using the En Garde system might be<BR>
easiest, since all the rules are written for it.  Converting Traveller<BR>
characters could simply be something that occurs at the beginning (and<BR>
end?) of a session.<BR>
<BR>
Combat would use which ever system you prefer.  If the game is fencing<BR>
heavy, it might be worth converting Traveller characters to En Garde stats,<BR>
otherwise it might be easier to just use Traveller combat.<BR>
<BR>
One other point is that En Garde assumes a very male dominated society. <BR>
Female characters only appear as NPC mistresses.  This is fine by me in<BR>
context of the genre, but it is obviously unsatisfactory in a Traveller<BR>
crossover.  (It also makes the game a little odd for female players,<BR>
judging from what I have seen.)  <BR>
<BR>
The period just before the Civil War, or perhaps even during it, might be a<BR>
good time to set such a game.  The Imperium is in a decadent period, with<BR>
the intrigues getting a bit lethal...<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 07:34:10 -0700<BR>
From: Cheryl <cheryl@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Conspiracies in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
Funny that you should mention Ilumanati in Traveller, I wrote two "newsfax"<BR>
articles for our game that are posted in "Free Thoughts" (Our version of the<BR>
National Enquirer type of magazine) as Issues 14 and 15. I still have to<BR>
write one more issue explaining how the 13 families control all of known<BR>
space. I still haven't recovered from the brain strain of writing the first<BR>
two articles though. Parts of the story, such as the secret societies, have<BR>
their roots in events from our game, although most of this rant is just<BR>
colorful drivel for game background. We do have some player characters that<BR>
claim that they believe everything printed by "Free Thoughts". Most of our<BR>
PC's just want to blow up their building regularly.<BR>
<BR>
You can see them at www.travelercentral .com<BR>
<BR>
on 8/29/00 9:34 PM, Leslie Bates at lesbates@minn.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:44 PM 8/29/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>> <tongue-in-cheek><BR>
>> <BR>
>> Brethren and sistren, there are VAST CONSPIRACIES at work in the<BR>
>> Traveller setting!!!!<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Back in the the Winter of '82 I ran at a local gaming convention a session<BR>
> of "Illuminated Traveller."<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:34:21 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: newbie post: pbem traveller?<BR>
<BR>
I am going to ge setting one up, but it will be a while before I get one<BR>
started, just new to this so it is difficult to get under way...all the<BR>
same, it is a fact, that , yes ,... I am getting one under way...<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Wade" <wade@muppetlabs.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 10:35 AM<BR>
Subject: newbie post: pbem traveller?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> i used to play a fair amount of traveller and i've only recently<BR>
> discovered this list.  can anyone provide insightas to where i might find<BR>
> a play by email traveller game to get involved in?<BR>
><BR>
> my apologies if i've missed the obvious location for the answer to this<BR>
> question.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:58:02 -0500<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
1. Could someone who has Safari Ship (or whatever module the Shriekers are<BR>
in) quote me the  relevant text (yes, this is for AR4).<BR>
<BR>
2. Anybody here read Hungarian? I'm curious to know if any GDW or SJ Games<BR>
stuff is being pirated at http://rpg.rulez.org/cikk/<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 08:40:27 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
Have you run the Hungarian stuff through Babelfish.com?  As for the<BR>
Safari Ship stuff, I've got it at home, but it might be awhile before I<BR>
can get you the text.<BR>
<BR>
You just need the stuff on the Shriekers?<BR>
<BR>
- --- Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com> wrote:<BR>
> 1. Could someone who has Safari Ship (or whatever module the<BR>
> Shriekers are<BR>
> in) quote me the  relevant text (yes, this is for AR4).<BR>
> <BR>
> 2. Anybody here read Hungarian? I'm curious to know if any GDW or SJ<BR>
> Games<BR>
> stuff is being pirated at http://rpg.rulez.org/cikk/<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Loren Wiseman<BR>
>      Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
>      Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society <BR>
> http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
>      SJ Games<BR>
>      lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
>      (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
>      (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:44:41 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> 2. Anybody here read Hungarian? I'm curious to know if any <BR>
> GDW or SJ Games<BR>
> stuff is being pirated at http://rpg.rulez.org/cikk/<BR>
<BR>
I got some translation software at home that should be able to handle it. If<BR>
you don't get an answer today, I'll install it on my work PC tomorrow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:34:06 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> Have you run the Hungarian stuff through Babelfish.com?<BR>
<BR>
Only handles English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese.<BR>
<BR>
Hungarian is not even related to any of those languages... the closest<BR>
related language of Hungarian is Finnish, BTW.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:38:32 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE:Causality(was  Babelfish )<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, interesting. I've recieved Jens' reply, but Gerry's original email<BR>
hasn't arrived yet.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> > Have you run the Hungarian stuff through Babelfish.com?<BR>
> <BR>
> Only handles English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, and <BR>
> Portuguese.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hungarian is not even related to any of those languages... the closest<BR>
> related language of Hungarian is Finnish, BTW.<BR>
> <BR>
> * Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
> | jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
> | ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
> * http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:44:11 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
<BR>
OK ,why not produce a programme, surely theres one somewhere handy in<BR>
freeware, a little prog for converting Numbers with different Bases.........<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 7:04 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > I never said that _I_ could do base 8..<BR>
> ><BR>
> > lol<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Sheeseh :)<BR>
><BR>
> Pick up an old "progammer's calculator". They'll convert between<BR>
> binary, octal, decimal and hex. And do calcs in any of them.<BR>
><BR>
> I'm using a TI-35 Plus, and I've got a *much* older TI Programmer.<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:20:40 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Science, History, Politics, Philosophy and Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Much ado about fictional inspirations have been on this list...I was <BR>
wondering what people may think of the non-fictional inspirations for <BR>
Traveller has been through the ages.  What were the events or philosophies, <BR>
which shaped the formation of Traveller?  We all know the quote about the <BR>
Greek city-states and the United States shaping the 3I.  But what real life <BR>
current events (now already history) shaped the game (excluding things like <BR>
the Roman Empire).  Draw upon any milieu and provide explanation.  Heres <BR>
what I think for the sources of the LLB or early Imperial Campaign.  <BR>
Especially interesting would be how non-American gamers incorporate this <BR>
very American cultural backdrop into their campaigns.<BR>
<BR>
Political<BR>
<BR>
Watergate:  certainly with all the sanctioned Break & Entry scenarios that <BR>
appeared in early Traveller.  Seeking a more noble order, at the same time, <BR>
corrupt plutocrats calling the shots.<BR>
<BR>
Vietnam:  the whole notion of the military taking predominance in the game <BR>
over the civilian careers, the reliving of experiences through the Frontier <BR>
Wars echo the experiences of many veterans.<BR>
<BR>
Cold War: the whole Imperial-Zhodani conflict revolves around that <BR>
particular conflict, with the collapse of the USSR echoed in TNE.<BR>
<BR>
Technological<BR>
<BR>
Apollo moon missions: seemed like Mankind was going to the Stars in no time.<BR>
<BR>
Shuttle:  the idea that space travel could become routine and even boring.  <BR>
Or as simple as jet.<BR>
<BR>
Philosophical<BR>
<BR>
Buckminster-Fuller:  ideas of a design revolution overtaking politics.  As <BR>
it is the prime driving force even as imperial society is rather technically <BR>
stagnant being the technical superpower, as the only interstellar power <BR>
capable of maintaining a TL 15 fighting force.<BR>
<BR>
E.F. Schumacher: Small is beautiful.  Intermediate technology, Traveller is <BR>
very optimistic about technology serving the good of mankind.<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3003<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3004</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, August 31 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3004<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Company logos.<BR>
Company logos.<BR>
Re: Company logos.<BR>
RE: Minor race publishing houses(was Company logos.)<BR>
RE: SF TMLers advice sought<BR>
Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
Re: Company logos.<BR>
Dilbert Zone (was re: Silly Allegiance...)<BR>
Re: 2 Things<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
Re: 2 Things<BR>
Re: 2 Things<BR>
Re: Opps<BR>
Re: penetrating AL-aerosols<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
Re: Opps<BR>
Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
RE: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
RE: Company logos.<BR>
Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
RE: sorta RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:25:11 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Arthur Boff <ajboff@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Company logos.<BR>
<BR>
Imperium Games had the Third Imperium's logo as its<BR>
logo. The Third Imperium, in the "official" timeline,<BR>
seemed invincible but was really a house of cards.<BR>
People expected a lot of Imperium Games but it<BR>
crumbled in the face of adversity.<BR>
<BR>
Far Future's logo is the logo of the Ziru Sirka. The<BR>
Ziru Sirka was obsessed with tradition and was stuck<BR>
in the past. Far Future reprints 20-year-old gaming<BR>
materials.<BR>
<BR>
With this in mind, here's a few ideas for<BR>
Traveller-producing companies using the logos of<BR>
interstellar empires:<BR>
<BR>
Zhodani: Have a way of knowing exactly what product<BR>
they should release next. Are very concerned about<BR>
customer satisfaction - and pay close attention to<BR>
unhappy customers.<BR>
<BR>
Solomani: Products are good but awfully Terra-centric.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Arthur Boff<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:29:40 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Arthur Boff <ajboff@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Company logos.<BR>
<BR>
Imperium Games had the Third Imperium's logo as its<BR>
logo. The Third Imperium, in the "official" timeline,<BR>
seemed invincible but was really a house of cards.<BR>
People expected a lot of Imperium Games but it<BR>
crumbled in the face of adversity.<BR>
<BR>
Far Future's logo is the logo of the Ziru Sirka. The<BR>
Ziru Sirka was obsessed with tradition and was stuck<BR>
in the past. Far Future reprints 20-year-old gaming<BR>
materials.<BR>
<BR>
With this in mind, here's a few ideas for<BR>
Traveller-producing companies using the logos of<BR>
interstellar empires:<BR>
<BR>
Zhodani: Have a way of knowing exactly what product<BR>
they should release next. Are very concerned about<BR>
customer satisfaction - and pay close attention to<BR>
unhappy customers.<BR>
<BR>
Solomani: Products are good but awfully Terra-centric.<BR>
<BR>
Rule of Man: Take over Far Future following bankruptcy<BR>
but can't resurrect a failing company.<BR>
<BR>
Hivers: "It's funny - I went into the game store<BR>
wanting to buy the latest Vampire supplement but this<BR>
Traveller supplement caught my eye..."<BR>
<BR>
Aslan: Some of the supplements are extremely<BR>
militaristic and macho, others cater to women in<BR>
comfortable shoes...<BR>
<BR>
Vargr: The company is plagued with in-fighting and<BR>
thus never gets anything done.<BR>
<BR>
K'Kree: Their company reps take the vegitarian option<BR>
in the cafeteria at conventions, and their supplements<BR>
cater for large parties - don't even think about<BR>
asking for a solitaire adventure!<BR>
<BR>
Arthur Boff<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:36:06 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Company logos.<BR>
<BR>
Arthur Boff wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Far Future's logo is the logo of the Ziru Sirka. The<BR>
> Ziru Sirka was obsessed with tradition and was stuck<BR>
> in the past. Far Future reprints 20-year-old gaming<BR>
> materials.<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
LOLUMNTIC !   (Laughed Out Loud Until My Neighbours Thought I'm Crazy)<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:44:46 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Minor race publishing houses(was Company logos.)<BR>
<BR>
Bwap: Supplements sold at a reduced price due to water damage.<BR>
<BR>
Ahetoewa: Printing facilities heavily dependant on automation.<BR>
<BR>
Jgd-ll-Jagd: Playtesting shows all releases to be well-balanced.<BR>
<BR>
Stalkers: Supplements not commonly seem in the possesion of anyone else but<BR>
Stalkers.<BR>
<BR>
Shalli: They're not a game company, are they?<BR>
<BR>
Girug'kagh: Subsidiary of K'kree enterprises, LIC<BR>
<BR>
Bye-Ren: Very sturdy binding. Back catalogue entirely hard-back.<BR>
<BR>
The Controlled: Rumors that this used to be Guy-troy Publishing  have no<BR>
substance.<BR>
<BR>
Nunclees: Supplements are made up of individual words, printed on very small<BR>
pieces of paper and thrown together.<BR>
<BR>
Denaar: Supplements are mostly photocopies of photocopies of photocopies of<BR>
photocopies of photocopies of photocopies ad nauseum<BR>
<BR>
Trakii: Extensive back catologue, difficult to find a starting point.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:58:08 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: SF TMLers advice sought<BR>
<BR>
There's a real good bookstore on Laguna....can't remember the name though.<BR>
I'll dig out my New Years 2000 holiday snaps...<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I just found out from my boss that I am going to be in San Francisco<BR>
> Tuesday-Thursday of next week in order to suck the brains of some<BR>
> contractors.<BR>
> <BR>
> So are there any must visit gamesstores, bookstores, pubs, etc. in the<BR>
> downtown area that you all would recomend?<BR>
> <BR>
> G.D.D.<BR>
> Thing under the stairs,<BR>
> Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
> Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
> ===========================<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:28:07 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
> Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> > Have you run the Hungarian stuff through Babelfish.com?<BR>
> <BR>
> Only handles English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hungarian is not even related to any of those languages... the closest<BR>
> related language of Hungarian is Finnish, BTW.<BR>
> <BR>
I stopped by my FLUBS today and scarfed up several dictionaries, including<BR>
one each Hungarian to/from English...<BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:42:21 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Company logos.<BR>
<BR>
At 10:25 AM -0700 8/31/00, Arthur Boff wrote:<BR>
>Zhodani: Have a way of knowing exactly what product<BR>
>they should release next. Are very concerned about<BR>
>customer satisfaction - and pay close attention to<BR>
>unhappy customers.<BR>
<BR>
Or do they release the product that the customers<BR>
_should_ be satisfied with and unhappy customers<BR>
are expected to report in so they can be shown how<BR>
they should be happy with the product?<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:41:54 -0400<BR>
From: "Walt Smith" <smithw@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Dilbert Zone (was re: Silly Allegiance...)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>You don't live in the Dilbert Zone until you can't say no...<BR>
<BR>
How about when you're asked to make a decision, you decide<BR>
"no, you present  evidence why you said "no", and are told to <BR>
say "yes"?<BR>
<BR>
How about when you're then told to use the same evidence you<BR>
based your "no" decision on to convince other people that<BR>
saying "yes" was the right thing to do?<BR>
<BR>
Dilbert was my co-pilot, but we crashed in the desert<BR>
and I had to eat him.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:40:30<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
At 09:58 AM 8/31/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>1. Could someone who has Safari Ship (or whatever module the Shriekers are<BR>
>in) quote me the  relevant text (yes, this is for AR4).<BR>
><BR>
>2. Anybody here read Hungarian? I'm curious to know if any GDW or SJ Games<BR>
>stuff is being pirated at http://rpg.rulez.org/cikk/<BR>
<BR>
I ran it through InterTran<BR>
<BR>
http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran<BR>
<BR>
And didn't see any obvious GDW game names or references.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
Yfirmaur, Konunglegur Gramm Floti<BR>
Srstakur Vitsmunir jnusta<BR>
Sameina Her: Rm, Sver Verld Sambandsmyndun<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:43:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
At 06:44 PM 8/31/2000 +1200, you wrote:<BR>
>Marc Millar has graciously given me permission to release my High Guard <BR>
>Shipyard version 1.0. This release will allow the design of ships according <BR>
>to the 2nd Edition High Guard rules (including the racial effects from Alien <BR>
>Modules 2, 5 and 7). I am in the process of setting up a download site at <BR>
>my website at Downport and it should be up within the next few hours.<BR>
<BR>
When making these announcements, could we please include system<BR>
requirements?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:35:08 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:20:43 -0400 (EDT), Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>2. Anybody here read Hungarian? I'm curious to know if any GDW or SJ Games<BR>
>stuff is being pirated at http://rpg.rulez.org/cikk/<BR>
<BR>
I pumped it through InterTran (http://www.tranexp.com), and while it didn't<BR>
do a perfect job, I don't see anything suggestive of any GDW products that<BR>
I'm aware of.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:51:22 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
> 2. Anybody here read Hungarian? I'm curious to know if any GDW or SJ Games<BR>
> stuff is being pirated at http://rpg.rulez.org/cikk/<BR>
<BR>
Well, I don't read Hungarian, but looking at the site, I don't think<BR>
anything is being pirated there.  Based on what I was able to read and the<BR>
size of the stuff it looks like some IRC logs, and some fan produced stuff. <BR>
Of course it would be better to find someone that can read Hungarian...  <BR>
<BR>
I think the real problem is that rulez sounds just a bit to much like warez<BR>
to people in the US.  The real question is, what does rulez sound like to<BR>
someone in Hungary?<BR>
<BR>
			Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:54:45 EDT<BR>
From: Olegamer@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Opps<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 8/31/00 4:57:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  But anyhow, if <BR>
 anyone would like to test the beta of TCS, please drop me an email. >><BR>
<BR>
EMAIL!  Of course I interested!!!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:04:42 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: penetrating AL-aerosols<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Macintosh wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >How does burning through ALA's work in Striker?<BR>
<BR>
AL-aerosols are given an equivalent armor value (80 for prismatic <BR>
aerosols vs. TL 7-12 lasers, regular AL-aerosols give armor 50<BR>
vs. TL 7-8 lasers and armor 45 vs. TL 9-12 lasers; TL 13+ lasers<BR>
are immune).  The 90MW laser used on the Rapira has a penetration<BR>
of 80.  I forgot the cumulative armor rules (it has been a while),<BR>
and now have to increase the laser's size to inflict more than<BR>
surface damage.<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 11:22:55 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
On 31 Aug 00, at 13:43, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> When making these announcements, could we please include system<BR>
> requirements?<BR>
<BR>
Sorry. Pentium 133 with 32 Mb RAM running Windows NT/9x (thats the <BR>
lowest spec system I've tried it on, but I suspect it will run with less).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:23:44 -0400<BR>
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
At 11:22 AM 9/1/00 +1200, you wrote:<BR>
>On 31 Aug 00, at 13:43, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > When making these announcements, could we please include system<BR>
> > requirements?<BR>
><BR>
>Sorry. Pentium 133 with 32 Mb RAM running Windows NT/9x (thats the<BR>
>lowest spec system I've tried it on, but I suspect it will run with less).<BR>
<BR>
What is the website address?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
Kurt Feltenberger<BR>
kurt@blazenet.net<BR>
Morrow Project Campaign http://www.sol-3.net<BR>
WT-L Support Pages http://www.sol-3.net/wt-l<BR>
<BR>
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>
      may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>
~Stephen Decatur<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:38:19 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Opps<BR>
<BR>
From: Olegamer@aol.com <Olegamer@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
><<  But anyhow, if<BR>
> anyone would like to test the beta of TCS, please drop me an email. >><BR>
><BR>
>EMAIL!  Of course I interested!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Ditto here, along with anything else you want me to try out.  Btw, what<BR>
is the web-site?<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:48:06 -0500<BR>
From: Bill Hopper <whopper@pobox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
<BR>
The calculator that is included with M$ Windows does a nice job for base 2,8,10,<BR>
and 16.<BR>
<BR>
WKH<BR>
<BR>
"michael.scanlon" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> OK ,why not produce a programme, surely theres one somewhere handy in<BR>
> freeware, a little prog for converting Numbers with different Bases.........<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 12:44:39 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
On 31 Aug 00, at 19:23, Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> What is the website address?<BR>
<BR>
<http://www.downpost.com/amv/hgs/hgs.html><BR>
<BR>
For those who have asked if I'll be putting the beta of TCS up too. Sorry not <BR>
yet. My agreement with Marc limits the number of beta copies, and (at the <BR>
moment) its nowhere near stable enough for a general beta release.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:41:02 -0500<BR>
From: Bill Hopper <whopper@pobox.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
The correct URL is http://www.downport.com/amv/hgs/hgs.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 31 Aug 00, at 19:23, Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > What is the website address?<BR>
><BR>
> <http://www.downpost.com/amv/hgs/hgs.html><BR>
><BR>
> For those who have asked if I'll be putting the beta of TCS up too. Sorry not<BR>
> yet. My agreement with Marc limits the number of beta copies, and (at the<BR>
> moment) its nowhere near stable enough for a general beta release.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:30:56 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
<BR>
My apologies, I'm catching up on my email after vacation and I'm responding<BR>
to interesting stuff in my backlog. I'm trying to read entire threads so I'm<BR>
not going over the same ground others have.<BR>
<BR>
>> As I understand it, the symbol was use to mark passages in the<BR>
>> catacombs of Rome directing the faithful toward safe meeting places.<BR>
><BR>
>The symbol comes from an "acronym". In Greek, the phrase:<BR>
><BR>
>	Jesus Christ, God, Man, Saviour<BR>
><BR>
>has the intitials I C Th Y S. Which is the Greek word for "fish". Thus<BR>
>the use of the fish symbol by Christians.<BR>
><BR>
>ps. It's Greek because that was far more widely spoken than Latin in<BR>
>the eastern part of the Roman Empire.<BR>
<BR>
Close. The fish symbol actually first appeared in Rome, where Latin was<BR>
spoken, not in the eastern part of the Roman Empire. Still, Christians had<BR>
to be able to read Greek for obvious reasons, and that particular bit of<BR>
wordplay did appear.<BR>
<BR>
However, the symbol doesn't necessarily come from the acronym, although some<BR>
believe it does. Fish talk pops up in a lot of important places in the<BR>
gospels. Christ won over fishermen as apostles by telling them they would<BR>
become fishers of men. Then, there are the instances in which Christ fills<BR>
the nets of disciples with fish. At one point Christ likens the kingdom of<BR>
heaven to a fishing net. Christ also turns a few fish into many on several<BR>
occasions.<BR>
<BR>
I could go on for a while, but I suspect that you get the point. The fish<BR>
simply happens to be a very potent symbol in Christianity and Christian<BR>
iconography. The acronym undoubtedly stemmed from this fact. Whether or not<BR>
the symbol comes from the acronym is debated, although there is considerable<BR>
evidence that early Christian cults used the symbol of the fish in other<BR>
forms before the acronym came into use.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: What I've always found fascinating about the fish symbol is the<BR>
history of its rediscovery and subsequent revival. The fish symbol, and<BR>
Christian iconography in general, were all but forgotten until the middle of<BR>
the 20th century. The boom in archeology and certain developments in art<BR>
history coincided with a liberal and intellectual movement in Catholicism in<BR>
the 1960s. The new Catholicism, sometimes called "guitar Catholicism",<BR>
embraced a lot of the elements of early Christianity, as they were in tune<BR>
with the times. The communal breaking of bread, the Lord as "abba" ("daddy")<BR>
combined with strains of liberation theology and popular culture created a<BR>
new type of college educated, hip, upwardly mobile Catholic.<BR>
<BR>
Bear with me for a moment, this will all make sense in a moment.<BR>
<BR>
These Catholics began moving to the suburbs, which were havens of<BR>
protestantism. They rediscovered and revived the symbol to identify each<BR>
other, which has an interesting resonance with the earlier use of the<BR>
symbol. Since then, the symbol has become more widely used by Christians in<BR>
general.<BR>
<BR>
There are two ways to view those who are "culturally Vilani" but<BR>
geographically distant from Vland. The first way is that Vilani, everywhere,<BR>
are simply resistant to change. They are not influenced by outside sources,<BR>
and they stalwartly avoid assimilation by the cultures which swirl around<BR>
them, and assimilating elements of those cultures. Personally, I've always<BR>
thought that view was a little silly, but some people do cling to it to<BR>
explain why the Third Imperium is "conservative" with respect to technology.<BR>
<BR>
The second way to view these Vilani is to see them as having effectively<BR>
lost the ties they once had to Vilani culture. A couple millenia will do<BR>
that, after all.<BR>
<BR>
As a result, you might very well see these sorts of revivals from time to<BR>
time. A character may learn some Vilani language in an attempt to sort of<BR>
forge a link to the culture. They may revive old symbols, philosophies or<BR>
styles of music and art. On the other hand, some folks of Vilani descent may<BR>
really be able to draw an unbroken line to the various traditions of Vland.<BR>
<BR>
We see this sort of thing all of the time nowadays. Americans of Irish<BR>
descent rediscover their Irish roots. Sometimes they do it with a certain<BR>
degree of respect, getting respect in return, and sometimes they bungle<BR>
things badly, to the amusement or annoyance of actual Irish folks. I've seen<BR>
this same sort of thing with all sorts of different traditions. Sometimes<BR>
this process is annoying and insulting, sometimes it's humorous, and<BR>
sometimes it's fascinating.<BR>
<BR>
A character built on such a framework might be great fun to play, or fun for<BR>
other players to play beside. The character might bungle his way through<BR>
Vilani culture, pretending (or believing) he understands the culture,<BR>
despite the fact that he wasn't raised in it, and has no real connection to<BR>
it. On the other hand, the character might actually understand that even<BR>
though the society he's from and the culture he's connected to are quite<BR>
different, he can manage to strike a balance between both.<BR>
<BR>
The first type of character might be very conspicuous, attempting to<BR>
constantly impress everyone around with his Vilani-ness, even though he was<BR>
born and raised on Magyar. The second type may have certain very deep-seated<BR>
interests, say, in old styles of Vilani music, or literature, or whatever.<BR>
<BR>
Both types could provide campaigns with some flavor, and also provide a way<BR>
in which bits and pieces concerning Vilani culture may be inserted to the<BR>
game a little bit at a time.<BR>
<BR>
It doesn't have to be characters of Vilani descent, though that's what<BR>
initially came to mind for me.<BR>
<BR>
Sometimes a whole culture goes through this sort of rediscovery and revival.<BR>
Take a look at how the canon of British literature came to be formed. Before<BR>
about the 19th century, Beowulf was a curiosity and it was common for<BR>
directors to change the endings of Shakespeare's tragedies... to make them<BR>
more "pleasant".<BR>
<BR>
Groups, nations, worlds, or even larger polities, undergoing such a change<BR>
could provide an interesting backdrop for an adventure, as there are all<BR>
sorts of interesting reasons why these changes take place.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:01:29 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Company logos.<BR>
<BR>
At 10:25 AM -0700 8/31/00, Arthur Boff wrote:<BR>
>>Zhodani: Have a way of knowing exactly what product<BR>
>>they should release next. Are very concerned about<BR>
>>customer satisfaction - and pay close attention to<BR>
>>unhappy customers.<BR>
><BR>
>Or do they release the product that the customers<BR>
>_should_ be satisfied with and unhappy customers<BR>
>are expected to report in so they can be shown how<BR>
>they should be happy with the product?<BR>
<BR>
Sounds a lot like Microsoft to me.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:13:30 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
<BR>
> Fish talk pops up in a lot of important places in the<BR>
> gospels.<BR>
<BR>
I used to know an astrologer and although I am not big on astrology, I will<BR>
tell you what she would have said...<BR>
<BR>
Christ ushered in the Age of Pisces the Fish, the way we are now entering<BR>
the Age of Aquarius the Water Bearer. That will last a couple thousand years<BR>
IIRC and then it is the Age of Capricorn and the Age of Sagittarius I think<BR>
(or Scorpio??) and so on. Don't ask me why we're going backwards.<BR>
<BR>
So 1 to 2000 would be an age where peoples ideals centred on a lot more<BR>
compassion and healing. At worst it could also mean a lot more drippy<BR>
sentimentality, melancholy, and spineless oversensitivity.<BR>
<BR>
About 2001 to 4000 would be an age of exploration and scientific<BR>
breakthroughs and flexibility and acceptance of others quirks. On the down<BR>
side it could also mean a lot of unproductive rushing about, bad<BR>
organisation and general disarray alongside unrealistic dreaming.<BR>
<BR>
The current Traveller era of 4001 to 6000 would be an age of bureaucracy,<BR>
accountancy, conservatism, inflexibility, solidity, and general stubborn<BR>
determination.<BR>
<BR>
So about 6001 we can look forward to the Age of Sagittarius. That will be a<BR>
lot looser and clumsier and era.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:30:37 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: sorta RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
<BR>
>>Speaking to a discussion Leonard and I had last week, SOM includes<BR>
>>Densitometers and Neutrino detectors as options for ***Military***<BR>
vessels.<BR>
>>It also states that Densitometers can detect artificial gravity fields, at<BR>
>>up to 50,000 km, but also says that the detector itself must be gravity<BR>
>>shielded from the artificial gravity of the ship it's installed in. I<BR>
would<BR>
>>take that to mean that it is possible to shield gravity tech from<BR>
detection<BR>
>>instruments. I suppose for GURPS we could say that such shielding is<BR>
>>included in emission masking. The range of neutrino detection is not<BR>
given,<BR>
>>though the text says that these detectors can detect a ship powerplant at<BR>
>>ranges beyond any other type of detector. I don't have my GT book handy so<BR>
I<BR>
>>don't know how that relates to the GT Rad Detector.<BR>
><BR>
> Both of these were toned down quite a bit in TNE, as both qualify as<BR>
"super<BR>
>sensors". Densitometers had their range and resolution reduced (or rather,<BR>
>you can have one or the other, but not both), while Neutrino sensors were<BR>
>summarily moved into "scientific/survey" equipment, since we use<BR>
>multi-million cubic-meter detectors and can barely detect the SUN, much<BR>
less<BR>
>some penny-ante fusion powerplant. A sensor the size of a bathtub is<BR>
>pointless by comparison...<BR>
><BR>
> Since I'm not a big fan of sensors that can detect a cloaked ship current<BR>
>location at two light years range (ST:TNG reference, BTW), I LIKED this<BR>
>change in TNE, and still use it...<BR>
><BR>
>GC<BR>
<BR>
So this goes to the important points of the discussion. As I understand what<BR>
your saying Neutrino detectors are useless for detecting ships and<BR>
Densitometers can either tell you a gravity producing field is present or<BR>
scan an object (at close range) and report density.<BR>
<BR>
The reason I think this is important is because if artificial gravity fields<BR>
are easily detectable then troops (and PC's) desiring to infiltrate an area<BR>
will ***not*** be able to use any gravitic devices. No flight belts, no<BR>
contragrav backpacks (a GURPS staple for increasing the amount of equipment<BR>
someone can carry), no air/raft. If Densitometers are not especially useful<BR>
on planetary surfaces, due to natural gravity "noise" blocking the sensor or<BR>
gravitic devices can be shielded then it's a different ballgame. If<BR>
Densitometers are big, expensive, only available to the military, GTL12<BR>
instead of GTL10 then it's a different story. If artificial gravity<BR>
shielding technology is readily available then anyone can use the above<BR>
devices. If it's only available to the military then Imperial and Merc units<BR>
will have them, but PC merchants won't (And they'll use ATV's to travel<BR>
across distances in days they could cover in 15 minutes in an air/raft. Not<BR>
an idea I personally like.) If nobody has them then troops might or might<BR>
not use gravitic devices, depending on the mission.<BR>
<BR>
I've already stated I'm in the shielded devices category, but would like to<BR>
know what canon says.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:57:48 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
on 8/31/00 4:22 PM, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance at a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 31 Aug 00, at 13:43, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>> When making these announcements, could we please include system<BR>
>> requirements?<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry. Pentium 133 with 32 Mb RAM running Windows NT/9x (thats the<BR>
> lowest spec system I've tried it on, but I suspect it will run with less).<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
Written in?  Source code availability? License?<BR>
<BR>
I'm currently working on porting Heaven and Earth over to the Macintosh.  Is<BR>
there any interest in porting other stuff.  Windows trav app writer who want<BR>
to share code, or better yet adopt copyleft?<BR>
<BR>
Some of us are not running windows, but would like to benefit from these<BR>
apps.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3004<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 1 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3005<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: SF TMLers advice sought<BR>
Re: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
RE: 2 Things<BR>
Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
Re: 2 Things<BR>
RE: 2 Things<BR>
Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
RE: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
RE: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
RE: 2 Things<BR>
Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
Re: sorta RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
Re: 2 Things<BR>
Re: Minor race publishing houses(was Company logos.)<BR>
RE: sorta RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
Re: Base 8<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
Re: Places not to invade (OT)<BR>
Re: Minor race publishing houses(was Company logos.)<BR>
RE: 2 Things<BR>
Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 07:42:55 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: SF TMLers advice sought<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> There's a real good bookstore on Laguna....can't remember the <BR>
> name though.<BR>
> I'll dig out my New Years 2000 holiday snaps...<BR>
<BR>
Borderlands. I managed to get a near complete set of the Wild Cards series<BR>
there...most impressive. They got tonnes of stuff.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > I just found out from my boss that I am going to be in San Francisco<BR>
> > Tuesday-Thursday of next week in order to suck the brains of some<BR>
> > contractors.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > So are there any must visit gamesstores, bookstores, pubs, <BR>
> etc. in the<BR>
> > downtown area that you all would recomend?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > G.D.D.<BR>
> > Thing under the stairs,<BR>
> > Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
> > Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
> > ===========================<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 00:15:22 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > It can get even stranger than that if you mess with the valueof pi! :-)<BR>
...<BR>
> Sorry, but what you are describing *isn't* pi. The value of pi *is*<BR>
> equal to the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle in<BR>
> a Euclidean plane. But pi itself is defined otherwise in "real math".<BR>
<BR>
Something else in the "weird math" category:<BR>
<BR>
In my grad school days I attended a colloquim on piadic (pi-adic)<BR>
numbers.  I recall piadic numbers were in a base-pi system.  Well,<BR>
that's pretty strange.  The lecturer thought that base-pi might be the<BR>
"natural" number system of the universe.  Unfortunately/needless to say,<BR>
I've never heard anything else about piadic numbers.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 09:18:49 +0300<BR>
From: Paul =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=FCnnap?= <paul@sorainen.ee><BR>
Subject: Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
<BR>
> Hungarian is not even related to any of those languages... the closest<BR>
> related language of Hungarian is Finnish, BTW.<BR>
<BR>
And that link is perceivable only to some linguists. No Finnic-language<BR>
speaker will understand a word of Hungarian.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 08:25:06 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > 2. Anybody here read Hungarian? I'm curious to know if any <BR>
> GDW or SJ Games<BR>
> > stuff is being pirated at http://rpg.rulez.org/cikk/<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, I don't read Hungarian, but looking at the site, I don't think<BR>
> anything is being pirated there.  Based on what I was able to <BR>
> read and the<BR>
> size of the stuff it looks like some IRC logs, and some fan <BR>
> produced stuff. <BR>
> Of course it would be better to find someone that can read <BR>
> Hungarian...  <BR>
> <BR>
> I think the real problem is that rulez sounds just a bit to <BR>
> much like warez<BR>
> to people in the US.  The real question is, what does rulez <BR>
> sound like to<BR>
> someone in Hungary?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Cue flood of Monty Python quotes : 'Pleeze fern-dall my burt-ocks' :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 03:38:45 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
<BR>
> >  the closest<BR>
> > related language of Hungarian is Finnish, BTW.<BR>
><BR>
> And that link is perceivable only to some linguists.<BR>
<BR>
I thought Finnish was Finno-Ugrik and Hungarian was Magyar. As far as I can<BR>
tell neither family is really Proto-Indo-European descended.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 10:02:06 +0300<BR>
From: Paul =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=FCnnap?= <paul@sorainen.ee><BR>
Subject: Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
<BR>
> I thought Finnish was Finno-Ugrik and Hungarian was Magyar. <BR>
<BR>
Both Finnish and Hungarian belong to the Finno-Ugric language group as<BR>
opposed to Indo-European group. I admit to pulling the term Finnic out<BR>
of my imagination, but I was referring to the group of languages which<BR>
are very similar to Finnish, I don't know what it's officially called.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 21:18:43 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
On 31 Aug 00, at 20:57, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Written in?  Source code availability? License?<BR>
<BR>
Delphi (which is not available on Mac but is going to for Linux soon), as <BR>
long as Marc doesn't object, freeware.<BR>
<BR>
I would have liked to make it open source, but since its based High Guard <BR>
which is copyright, I didn't think could.<BR>
<BR>
> I'm currently working on porting Heaven and Earth over to the Macintosh.  Is<BR>
> there any interest in porting other stuff.  Windows trav app writer who want<BR>
> to share code, or better yet adopt copyleft?<BR>
<BR>
If anybody wants to port it to an other OS, I'd be more than happy (ecstatic <BR>
actually). I deliberately wrote it with functionality separate from the <BR>
interface to make it easier to port. However, I think my ability to share code <BR>
etc is limited by Marc's copyright to Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 11:23:49 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>
> Cue flood of Monty Python quotes : 'Pleeze fern-dall my burt-ocks' :)<BR>
<BR>
"My basket is full of eels."<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 10:36:18 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> "Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>
> > Cue flood of Monty Python quotes : 'Pleeze fern-dall my <BR>
> burt-ocks' :)<BR>
> <BR>
> "My basket is full of eels."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't it 'My Hovercraft is full of eels?'<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 06:53:18 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:13:30 -0400<BR>
>From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
>Subject: Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
><BR>
>Christ ushered in the Age of Pisces the Fish, the way we are now entering<BR>
>the Age of Aquarius the Water Bearer. That will last a couple thousand years<BR>
>IIRC and then it is the Age of Capricorn and the Age of Sagittarius I think<BR>
>(or Scorpio??) and so on. Don't ask me why we're going backwards.<BR>
<BR>
Rotation of the line of nodes -- the Earth's orbit shifts over time.<BR>
<BR>
>So 1 to 2000 would be an age where peoples ideals centred on a lot more<BR>
>compassion and healing. At worst it could also mean a lot more drippy<BR>
>sentimentality, melancholy, and spineless oversensitivity.<BR>
<BR>
No comment, except in contrast to what follows.<BR>
<BR>
>About 2001 to 4000 would be an age of exploration and scientific<BR>
>breakthroughs and flexibility and acceptance of others quirks. On the down<BR>
>side it could also mean a lot of unproductive rushing about, bad<BR>
>organisation and general disarray alongside unrealistic dreaming.<BR>
<BR>
That would be -2,520 to -521 Imperial: <BR>
<BR>
Invention of jump drive<BR>
Interstellar Wars<BR>
4 TLs in 200 years<BR>
Rule of Man<BR>
Long Night<BR>
<BR>
>The current Traveller era of 4001 to 6000 would be an age of bureaucracy,<BR>
>accountancy, conservatism, inflexibility, solidity, and general stubborn<BR>
>determination.<BR>
<BR>
- -520 to 1,479 Imperial:<BR>
<BR>
Sylean Federation<BR>
Zhunastu Doctrine<BR>
Third Imperium<BR>
4 TLs in 1,200 years<BR>
Pacification Campaigns<BR>
Frontier Wars<BR>
<BR>
>So about 6001 we can look forward to the Age of Sagittarius. That will be a<BR>
>lot looser and clumsier an era.<BR>
<BR>
M:1480, anyone?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 06:15:22 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
<BR>
Christopher Thrash wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:13:30 -0400<BR>
> >From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
> >Subject: Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Christ ushered in the Age of Pisces the Fish, the way we are now entering<BR>
> >the Age of Aquarius the Water Bearer. That will last a couple thousand years<BR>
> >IIRC and then it is the Age of Capricorn and the Age of Sagittarius I think<BR>
> >(or Scorpio??) and so on. Don't ask me why we're going backwards.<BR>
> <BR>
> Rotation of the line of nodes -- the Earth's orbit shifts over time.<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips impressive comparison between the various Ages and Imperial<BR>
history>><BR>
> <BR>
> >So about 6001 we can look forward to the Age of Sagittarius. That will be a<BR>
> >lot looser and clumsier an era.<BR>
> <BR>
> M:1480, anyone?<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone forwarded this post to Kenneth Hite (he of "Suppressed<BR>
Transmission" fame)?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 12:15:27 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Christopher Thrash wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:13:30 -0400<BR>
> > >From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
> > >Subject: Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Christ ushered in the Age of Pisces the Fish, the way we <BR>
> are now entering<BR>
> > >the Age of Aquarius the Water Bearer. That will last a <BR>
> couple thousand years<BR>
> > >IIRC and then it is the Age of Capricorn and the Age of <BR>
> Sagittarius I think<BR>
> > >(or Scorpio??) and so on. Don't ask me why we're going backwards.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Rotation of the line of nodes -- the Earth's orbit shifts over time.<BR>
> > <BR>
> <<snips impressive comparison between the various Ages and Imperial<BR>
> history>><BR>
> > <BR>
> > >So about 6001 we can look forward to the Age of <BR>
> Sagittarius. That will be a<BR>
> > >lot looser and clumsier an era.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > M:1480, anyone?<BR>
> <BR>
> Has anyone forwarded this post to Kenneth Hite (he of "Suppressed<BR>
> Transmission" fame)?<BR>
<BR>
I can if you want<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 23:12:30 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote  :<BR>
<BR>
> Written in?  Source code availability? License?<BR>
><BR>
> I'm currently working on porting Heaven and Earth over to the<BR>
> Macintosh. Is there any interest in porting other stuff.<BR>
> Windows trav app  writer who want<BR>
> to share code, or better yet adopt copyleft?<BR>
<BR>
I have a High Guard Ship validation engine (which will one day be turned<BR>
into a ship designer), written in Java, which will be released as freely<BR>
usable and modifiable source code once I've finished it. Only restricton<BR>
will be retention of copyright statements, including the Far Future one.<BR>
<BR>
I work on Windows (sometoimes Linux), but these days I invariably wrte in<BR>
Java, it's so much easier to program in than any other langage I have, and<BR>
works on both the OS's I use.<BR>
<BR>
I can send the current state if you like.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 23:37:38 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman wrote :<BR>
> 1. Could someone who has Safari Ship (or whatever module the Shriekers are<BR>
> in) quote me the  relevant text (yes, this is for AR4).<BR>
<BR>
Done.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 04:55:03 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fish and Beast codes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> OK ,why not produce a programme, surely theres one somewhere handy in<BR>
> freeware, a little prog for converting Numbers with different Bases.........<BR>
<BR>
There are. *tons* of them...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 04:56:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: sorta RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Densitometers can either tell you a gravity producing field is present or<BR>
> scan an object (at close range) and report density.<BR>
<BR>
Density variations, actually.<BR>
<BR>
> The reason I think this is important is because if artificial gravity fields<BR>
> are easily detectable then troops (and PC's) desiring to infiltrate an area<BR>
> will ***not*** be able to use any gravitic devices. No flight belts, no<BR>
> contragrav backpacks (a GURPS staple for increasing the amount of equipment<BR>
> someone can carry), no air/raft. If Densitometers are not especially useful<BR>
> on planetary surfaces, due to natural gravity "noise" blocking the sensor or<BR>
> gravitic devices can be shielded then it's a different ballgame. If<BR>
> Densitometers are big, expensive, only available to the military, GTL12<BR>
> instead of GTL10 then it's a different story.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, they exist *now* and are used in oil exploration. Try a<BR>
search for "Forward Mass Detector" (named for the inventor, Dr. Robert<BR>
Forward).<BR>
<BR>
The big problem with a mass detector is that until you take several<BR>
readings from different locations (or at different times if the target<BR>
is moving relative to you), a pebble 1 meter away produces the same<BR>
signal as a mountain kilometers away. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 05:01:17 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Have you run the Hungarian stuff through Babelfish.com?  As for the<BR>
> Safari Ship stuff, I've got it at home, but it might be awhile before I<BR>
> can get you the text.<BR>
><BR>
> You just need the stuff on the Shriekers?<BR>
<BR>
I've got that, and could probably copy or transcribe the info if noby<BR>
else can get to it sooner (I'm a bit reluctant, because I can only type<BR>
so much before my fingers get sore, and I'm kinda close to the limit a<BR>
lot of the time)<BR>
<BR>
And if it's in some other Judge's Guild product I *probably* have it.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 04:51:47 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Minor race publishing houses(was Company logos.)<BR>
<BR>
Geonee: Specialized in short stories and technical references.<BR>
<BR>
Vegan: Tuhir of Sharing Information for Reasonable Fee's<BR>
<BR>
Suerrat: Thrilling Jungle Tales<BR>
<BR>
Virushi: "All we are saying, is give peace a chance.", the<BR>
Imperium's foremost publisher of pre-spaceflight Solomani counterculture literature.<BR>
<BR>
Darmine: House of the Fourfold Way, "Preordained destiny speaks<BR>
to us through the patterns." publishes primarily dual lingual<BR>
Galanglic/Kadli works<BR>
<BR>
Dolphins: Peoples Literary Collective Dedicated To Promoting<BR>
The Classless Society, [Monitored closely by IMOJ.]<BR>
<BR>
Chirper: Imperial Interstellar Scout Service Publishing House: <BR>
Monographs of Semi intelligent Minor Race's: The Chirper. This <BR>
section  is primarily a musical publishing house, specializing <BR>
in the works of "Alvin and the Chipmunks" as performed by Chirpers.<BR>
All funds go to help the Chirpers.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:06:49 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: sorta RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, they exist *now* and are used in oil exploration. Try a<BR>
> search for "Forward Mass Detector" (named for the inventor, Dr. Robert<BR>
> Forward).<BR>
> <BR>
> The big problem with a mass detector is that until you take several<BR>
> readings from different locations (or at different times if the target<BR>
> is moving relative to you), a pebble 1 meter away produces the same<BR>
> signal as a mountain kilometers away. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I believe Bob also posited that if you vibrate the antenna it has the same<BR>
effect as if the item being measured is vibrating...can you confirm this,<BR>
Leonard?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 05:05:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Base 8<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> "You can't take 3 from 2, 2 is less than 3, <BR>
> so you look at the 4 in the eights place, <BR>
> Now, that's really 4 eights, so you make it 3 eights, <BR>
> regroup and you change an eight to eight ones . . . "<BR>
> Tom Lehrer's _New Math_ <BR>
<BR>
Addition<BR>
0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 <BR>
1  2  3  4  5  6  7 10<BR>
2  3  4  5  6  7 10 11<BR>
3  4  5  6  7 10 11 12<BR>
4  5  6  7 10 11 12 13<BR>
5  6  7 10 11 12 13 14<BR>
6  7 10 11 12 13 14 15<BR>
7 10 11 12 13 14 15 16<BR>
<BR>
Subtraction<BR>
0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7 <BR>
1  0  1  2  3  4  5  6<BR>
2 -1  0  1  2  3  4  5<BR>
3 -2 -1  0  1  2  3  4<BR>
4 -3 -2 -1  0  1  2  3<BR>
5 -4 -3 -2 -1  0  1  2<BR>
6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1  0  1<BR>
7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1  0<BR>
<BR>
Multiplication<BR>
1  2  3  4  5  6  7<BR>
2  4  6 10 12 14 16<BR>
3  6 11 14 17 22 25 <BR>
4 10 14 20 24 30 34<BR>
5 12 17 24 31 36 43<BR>
6 14 22 30 36 44 52<BR>
7 16 25 34 43 52 61<BR>
<BR>
Division<BR>
1/2 = 0.4<BR>
1/3 = 0.55555....<BR>
1/4 = 0.2<BR>
1/5 = 0.1463 1463...<BR>
1/6 = 0.12555...<BR>
1/7 = 0.1...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 05:55:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 31 Aug 00, at 20:57, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Written in?  Source code availability? License?<BR>
><BR>
> Delphi (which is not available on Mac but is going to for Linux soon), as <BR>
> long as Marc doesn't object, freeware.<BR>
<BR>
Check out FPC. It's available for free, and mostly Delphi compatible<BR>
(the incompatabilities involve hardware/OS specific libraries and the like).<BR>
<BR>
And it's available for Windows, OS/2, Linux... not sure about Mac, but<BR>
I think it may be.<BR>
<BR>
> I would have liked to make it open source, but since its based High Guard <BR>
> which is copyright, I didn't think could.<BR>
<BR>
Under "copyleft" or the like, you *might* be able to...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 06:03:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Another Fishy Imperium<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Fish talk pops up in a lot of important places in the<BR>
>> gospels.<BR>
><BR>
> I used to know an astrologer and although I am not big on astrology, I will<BR>
> tell you what she would have said...<BR>
><BR>
> Christ ushered in the Age of Pisces the Fish, the way we are now entering<BR>
> the Age of Aquarius the Water Bearer. That will last a couple thousand years<BR>
> IIRC and then it is the Age of Capricorn and the Age of Sagittarius I think<BR>
> (or Scorpio??) and so on. Don't ask me why we're going backwards.<BR>
<BR>
It has to do with which "sign" the Sun is in at a particular point in<BR>
the year. Due to precession of the equinoxes, it slow shifts thru the<BR>
zodiac.<BR>
<BR>
The fun part is that if you check, the dates for being born in a given<BR>
sign are all based on where the sun would have been 4000 years ago!<BR>
<BR>
That is, if your "sun sign" is Aquariius, the sun was nowhere *near*<BR>
that constellation when you were born!<BR>
<BR>
Also, since the "logic" astrology is based on is based on what part of<BR>
the sky the sun, moon and various planets are in, moving to an orbital<BR>
hab will change things noticeably, moving to moon will cause a drastic<BR>
change, move to another planet is worse, and going to another star<BR>
takes you right off the map...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 13:31:33 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Viktor Haag <vhaag@rim.net><BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
<BR>
 > Written in?  Source code availability? License?<BR>
 > <BR>
 > I'm currently working on porting Heaven and Earth over to the<BR>
 > Macintosh.  Is there any interest in porting other stuff.<BR>
 > Windows trav app writer who want to share code, or better yet<BR>
 > adopt copyleft?<BR>
 > <BR>
 > Some of us are not running windows, but would like to benefit<BR>
 > from these apps.<BR>
<BR>
I couldn't agree more. Why not write things in something<BR>
portable, like Java or Tcl/TK? That way the porting hassles are<BR>
minimal...<BR>
<BR>
Personally, my OS use is Linux, Mac, Windows in that order, and<BR>
the less I have to use Windows, the happier I am. I'm looking<BR>
forward to your port of H&E, Tod.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Viktor Haag                           Senior Technical Writer, RIM<BR>
'79 99, '89 9000T, '00 9-3 SE         My opinions are my own, only.<BR>
tc++ ru ge(+) !3i c jt- au(-) pi+ he(+)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 10:38:04 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Places not to invade (OT)<BR>
<BR>
I've skipped several digests because of real life constraints (I guess<BR>
that makes me a real heretic), so someone may have answered this question<BR>
already:<BR>
<BR>
> > My knowledge of Finnish history (and WWII) must have<BR>
> > fuzzed out a bit.  Why would he (a Finninsh soldier)<BR>
> > have been shooting at the Germans?<BR>
<BR>
Finland and the USSR settled their war in early 1945.  Part of the deal<BR>
was that Finland would push all of the German troops that were then in<BR>
Finland out of the country.  German forces retreated from the<BR>
Finnish/Soviet border toward the Gulf of Bothnia and into Norway.  The<BR>
latter path took them through Lapland, which they burned on their way out.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
German troops withdrawing through northern Norway into southern Norway<BR>
were ordered to destroy everything and kill everyone so as to deny support<BR>
to the pursuing Soviet.  Few German units obeyed those orders to the<BR>
letter, although the Germans were, as of my visit there in 1988, still<BR>
known as the "burners of Lapland" in northern Norway and Finland.<BR>
<BR>
The Red Army pursued the Germans quite some distance into Norway; I don't<BR>
recall how far south they went.  When the war ended, they withdrew exactly<BR>
as promised to the prewar border, much to everyone's relief and not a few<BR>
people's surprise.  The Red Army did not enter Finnish territory at all in<BR>
pursuit of the Germans, per their agreement with Finland.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller:  It's hard to destroy a gas giant to deny it to a pursuing<BR>
enemy, but other aspects of this story can be adapted to interstellar<BR>
wars.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 10:53:59<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Minor race publishing houses(was Company logos.)<BR>
<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/pulp.html<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 13:13:18 -0500 <BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <Danny.Moody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Jones, Dean [mailto:Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com]<BR>
> > "Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>
> > > Cue flood of Monty Python quotes : 'Pleeze fern-dall my <BR>
> > burt-ocks' :)<BR>
> > <BR>
> > "My basket is full of eels."<BR>
> Wasn't it 'My Hovercraft is full of eels?'<BR>
<BR>
"Go back to my place - bouncy, bouncy!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com<BR>
- --------------------------- Molon Labe! ---------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 20:46:41 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
<BR>
I've got a TL6 (GURPS) planet with 0.85g surface gravity and a dense<BR>
nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere - 1.37 atms at sea level. Up until eight years ago<BR>
they were GTL9 but a horrendous civil war, attempted genocide and subsequant<BR>
Imperial Intervention have knocked theere technical recovery back down. There is<BR>
some recovery (to early GTL7) but they are critically short of expertise (for<BR>
reasons I wont go into at the moment)<BR>
<BR>
My question is - how much more efficient to things like blimps and Zeps get in<BR>
such conditions. I'm using G:Ve2 but any general comments would be welcome as<BR>
well.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3005<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3006</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 2 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3006<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
Re: Company logos.<BR>
Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
Re: 2 Things<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3005 - twice!<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3005 - twice!<BR>
RE: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
[www] 1 Sep 00 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>
Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
Re: 2 things<BR>
IRIS question<BR>
Re: IRIS question<BR>
Re: sorta RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
RE: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 13:05:32 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> I've got a TL6 (GURPS) planet with 0.85g surface gravity and a dense<BR>
> nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere - 1.37 atms at sea level. Up until eight years<BR>
<BR>
> My question is - how much more efficient to things like blimps and Zeps get<BR>
> in such conditions. I'm using G:Ve2 but any general comments would be<BR>
> welcome as well.<BR>
<BR>
Gravity has no interesting effect -- it reduces the weight of the airship, <BR>
bit it reduces the lift of the gasbag by the same amount.  Given that it has<BR>
similar composition to earth's atmosphere, gasbag lift will be multiplied by<BR>
the density of the atmosphere (you will also need 37% more gas to fill the<BR>
envelope, as it will be compressed).<BR>
<BR>
For atmospheric motors, drag is multiplied by atmospheric pressure; thrust<BR>
from rotors and fans is multiplied by the square root of atmospheric pressure.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 16:38:18 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 8/30/00 5:39:26 PM !!!First Boot!!!, trentfs@ix.netcom.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<   In fact, as far as I can tell, the only really "evolutionary" step *D&D <BR>
has taken in the last quarter century is to add a skill-based resolution <BR>
system and loosen a few of the class-based restrictions, and it took them 20 <BR>
years longer to do that than Traveller (in '77) and Runequest (in '78)!<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
sounds like Hasbro is trying to have its' cake and eat it too...ie; they want <BR>
to not only attract new blood, but keep the D+D grognards happy by not <BR>
changing it so much that they become alienated-we all know Traveller doesn't <BR>
have that problem...:-). Remember: this is Hasbro-they will print what sells; <BR>
not neccessarily what is a better/and more elegant rules system. IMHO; I <BR>
think EVERY person in this hobby from game manufacturer down to the lowliest <BR>
rugrat gamer should be cheering on D+D III, as its' success can only improve <BR>
our chances of more "mainstreaming" our hobby. If D+D III fails it can only <BR>
convince major players that the public would rather spend its' leisure <BR>
dollars on other hobbies and we get less goodies printed for us to play with. <BR>
This is why even though I wasn't a D+D or WH or  CCG person, I still want to <BR>
see them succeed because even if one in ten rugrats who start this hobby at <BR>
adolescence stays in it, then our ranks increase (I also wonder how many <BR>
people on this list have converted CCG, etc. rugrats to Traveller?)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:42:31 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Company logos.<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:57:51 -0400 (EDT), Arthur Boff <ajboff@yahoo.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>With this in mind, here's a few ideas for<BR>
>Traveller-producing companies using the logos of<BR>
>interstellar empires:<BR>
<BR>
>Zhodani: Have a way of knowing exactly what product<BR>
>they should release next. Are very concerned about<BR>
>customer satisfaction - and pay close attention to<BR>
>unhappy customers.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm... Then this should be the 'identifying symbol' for GURPS Traveller,<BR>
no?  Of course, there are those that would make the case that SJG should be<BR>
using the _Hiver_ symbol, but... :)<BR>
<BR>
>Solomani: Products are good but awfully Terra-centric.<BR>
<BR>
Don't know of a past/present Traveller publisher that could sensibly use<BR>
this one.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 16:45:25 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:57:51 -0400 (EDT), Michael Houghton<BR>
<herveus@Radix.Net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
>> Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
>> > Have you run the Hungarian stuff through Babelfish.com?<BR>
 <BR>
>> Only handles English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese.<BR>
 <BR>
>> Hungarian is not even related to any of those languages... the closest<BR>
>> related language of Hungarian is Finnish, BTW.<BR>
 <BR>
>I stopped by my FLUBS today and scarfed up several dictionaries, including<BR>
>one each Hungarian to/from English...<BR>
<BR>
Piggybacking on this, since it's too much trouble to go find Gerry's<BR>
original post...<BR>
<BR>
InterTran (http://www.tranexp.com) does handle Hungarian, probably no<BR>
better than Babblefish [sic] handles German et al.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:09:39 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
<BR>
So, in fact, big gliders are the way to go?<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 9:05 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Ben Aaronovitch writes:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I've got a TL6 (GURPS) planet with 0.85g surface gravity and a dense<BR>
> > nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere - 1.37 atms at sea level. Up until eight years<BR>
><BR>
> > My question is - how much more efficient to things like blimps and Zeps get<BR>
> > in such conditions. I'm using G:Ve2 but any general comments would be<BR>
> > welcome as well.<BR>
><BR>
> Gravity has no interesting effect -- it reduces the weight of the airship,<BR>
> bit it reduces the lift of the gasbag by the same amount.  Given that it has<BR>
> similar composition to earth's atmosphere, gasbag lift will be multiplied by<BR>
> the density of the atmosphere (you will also need 37% more gas to fill the<BR>
> envelope, as it will be compressed).<BR>
><BR>
> For atmospheric motors, drag is multiplied by atmospheric pressure; thrust<BR>
> from rotors and fans is multiplied by the square root of atmospheric pressure.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:10:44 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
<BR>
You have just saved me from looking like a complete t*t.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch (Hurriedly rewriting)<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 9:05 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Ben Aaronovitch writes:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > snip<BR>
> Gravity has no interesting effect -- it reduces the weight of the airship,<BR>
> bit it reduces the lift of the gasbag by the same amount.  Given that it has<BR>
> similar composition to earth's atmosphere, gasbag lift will be multiplied by<BR>
> the density of the atmosphere (you will also need 37% more gas to fill the<BR>
> envelope, as it will be compressed).<BR>
><BR>
> For atmospheric motors, drag is multiplied by atmospheric pressure; thrust<BR>
> from rotors and fans is multiplied by the square root of atmospheric pressure.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:21:59 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch writes:<BR>
> So, in fact, big gliders are the way to go?<BR>
<BR>
Depends which are easier to build.  A denser atmosphere makes just about any<BR>
sort of aircraft easier to build (a 37% increase in gasbag lift is not a<BR>
small bonus either).  On the minus side, it will also make just about any<BR>
sort of aircraft slower.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 18:04:09 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
Dean Jones writes:<BR>
>>Cue flood of Monty Python quotes : 'Pleeze fern-dall my burt-ocks' :)<BR>
>>"My basket is full of eels."<BR>
>Wasn't it 'My Hovercraft is full of eels?'<BR>
<BR>
IIRC:<BR>
<BR>
	"My hoovercraft iz fool of eels."<BR>
<BR>
	"This is a tabaconist."<BR>
<BR>
	"Ah!  My tobaconist iz fool of eels."<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 09:06:38 +1100 (EST)<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3005 - twice!<BR>
<BR>
- --- Traveller-digest <owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
wrote: > <BR>
> Traveller-digest     Friday, September 1 2000     Volume 1999 :<BR>
> Number 3005<BR>
<BR>
Did anybody else get this twice?<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Craig (who's back after a long absence (again))...<BR>
<ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au>   <craig_barnett@iname.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________________________<BR>
http://geocities.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Australia & NZ GeoCities<BR>
- - Build your own Web Site - for free!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 17:18:11 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3005 - twice!<BR>
<BR>
Craig Barnett wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> --- Traveller-digest <owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> wrote: ><BR>
> > Traveller-digest     Friday, September 1 2000     Volume 1999 :<BR>
> > Number 3005<BR>
> <BR>
> Did anybody else get this twice?<BR>
<BR>
<<checks aurictech email account>><BR>
<BR>
I didn't.<BR>
<BR>
"MOM!  Craig got two Digests #3005, and I only got one!  It's not<BR>
_fair_!" :-(<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 16:54:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
90% of the players that I have GMed traveller for had never heard of<BR>
traveller before we played.. I thot that was the norm :)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
(I also wonder how many people on this list have converted CCG, etc. rugrats<BR>
to Traveller?)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 22:09:44 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: [www] 1 Sep 00 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>
<BR>
Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource has<BR>
posted its most recent update to http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and<BR>
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm.  <BR>
<BR>
This update features:<BR>
<BR>
 - Fred Ramen brings us chapters one and two of The Hostile Stars, a serial<BR>
   story set during the Fifth Frontier War. You can read it in Raconteur's<BR>
   Rest. <BR>
<BR>
 - A new section of Raconteur's Rest has been opened: And Then.... Find out<BR>
   what it's all about, and read the first scene. <BR>
<BR>
 - Jeff Zeitlin's Word Generator program is now listed in the Windows and<BR>
   Linux sections of the Computer Connection. <BR>
<BR>
 - Frank Pitt's Java translation of Jeff Zeitlin's Word Generator is also<BR>
   listed in the Other Systems section of the Computer Connection. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance<BR>
Traveller.  Please write to freelancetraveller@yahoo.com with any and all<BR>
of them, as we are in the process of reconfiguring the forms, and they may<BR>
be temporarily disabled.  Freelance Traveller depends on the good will of<BR>
Traveller fans both to visit our site and justify our existence, and to<BR>
write for us, making our existence possible.<BR>
<BR>
Freelance Traveller is mirrored at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.<BR>
<BR>
Freelance Traveller wishes to extend its thanks and appreciation to The<BR>
Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) and to Executive Network<BR>
Information Systems (http://www.execnet.com) for hosting services. Without<BR>
organizations willing to cooperate with Freelance Traveller's ever-growing<BR>
needs, we would be unable to bring you the articles and other resources<BR>
that have made Freelance Traveller one of the premier Traveller sites on<BR>
the 'net.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 20:19:42<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
At 04:38 PM 9/1/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>sounds like Hasbro is trying to have its' cake and eat it too...ie; they<BR>
>want to not only attract new blood, but keep the D+D grognards happy by not <BR>
>changing it so much that they become alienated-<BR>
<BR>
Having bought, and thouroughly enjoyed the new PHB, I can say that while<BR>
WoTC wanted to make money on this (just like any business) the main drive<BR>
was to produce a streamlined, good game to replace the ungodly mess of<BR>
special rules and exemptions that had become AD&D2e.<BR>
<BR>
They have not only held on to most of the grognards, and are attracting the<BR>
new blood, but they are also luring back people who quite D&D in disgust<BR>
after the seventh "Complete Boof of Foo" came out.<BR>
<BR>
>(I also wonder how many people on this list have converted CCG, etc. rugrats <BR>
>to Traveller?)<BR>
<BR>
Well, my niece got me hooked on Harry Potter, so I'm modifying Qudditch for<BR>
Traveller.  Grav bikes instead of broomsticks, and the balls become<BR>
computer-controlled grav balls instad of magic.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 20:58:14 -0700<BR>
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-deja.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 2 things<BR>
<BR>
>> -----Original Message-----<BR>
"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>
>> > > Cue flood of Monty Python quotes : 'Pleeze fern-dall my <BR>
>> > burt-ocks' :)<BR>
>> > <BR>
>> > "My basket is full of eels."<BR>
>> Wasn't it 'My Hovercraft is full of eels?'<BR>
><BR>
>"Go back to my place - bouncy, bouncy!"<BR>
<BR>
Yes, this is an example of what you get for buying the *cheap* translator package instead of the deluxe model.  :-)<BR>
<BR>
ALO<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--<BR>
Before you buy.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 01:33:38 -0700<BR>
From: "Koji Suzuki" <kzuke@compuserve.com><BR>
Subject: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
I was wondering what issue of JTAS, Challenge, or if there was anyplace on<BR>
the web that I could find info about IRIS.  I remember reading about it way<BR>
back when, and I was planning on incorporating something into my campaign.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for any info.<BR>
<BR>
Koj<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:41:37 +1000<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" <NarellePark@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
IRIS was dealt with in Challenge 33.  Notwithstanding subsquent mentions in<BR>
later products, there was (IIRC) some questions regarding to what extent<BR>
IRIS was canon.  Others may care to comment on this.<BR>
<BR>
Jeff aka Academician Boris Kalashnikov<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 00:26:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: sorta RE: Newbie Q: Artificial Gravity?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Actually, they exist *now* and are used in oil exploration. Try a<BR>
>> search for "Forward Mass Detector" (named for the inventor, Dr. Robert<BR>
>> Forward).<BR>
>> <BR>
>> The big problem with a mass detector is that until you take several<BR>
>> readings from different locations (or at different times if the target<BR>
>> is moving relative to you), a pebble 1 meter away produces the same<BR>
>> signal as a mountain kilometers away. <BR>
><BR>
> I believe Bob also posited that if you vibrate the antenna it has the same<BR>
> effect as if the item being measured is vibrating...can you confirm this,<BR>
> Leonard?<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I have no idea. Seems likely, but I don't know.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 09:24:43 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
<BR>
I pulled some old responses and copied them below......<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Koji Suzuki" <kzuke@compuserve.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 4:33 AM<BR>
Subject: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I was wondering what issue of JTAS, Challenge, or if there was anyplace on<BR>
> the web that I could find info about IRIS.  I remember reading about it<BR>
way<BR>
> back when, and I was planning on incorporating something into my campaign.<BR>
><BR>
> Thanks for any info.<BR>
><BR>
> Koj<BR>
><BR>
_____________________[Black Ice Says]________________________________<BR>
<BR>
Well, if one can believe the excerpts from Emperor Strephon's journals,<BR>
as quoted in _Survival Margin_, IRIS is not a recognized Imperial<BR>
agency.  (Or, at least, Emperor Strephon states in his journals that he<BR>
had no knowledge of IRIS prior to its assertion of authority during the<BR>
Rebellion.)<BR>
<BR>
Note that, in _Survival Margin_, the earliest TNS story (at least the<BR>
earliest I found in skimming the TNS entries) that referred to IRIS was<BR>
dated 118-1121 (although the story referred to a 60-day cease-fire in<BR>
the Solomani Rim, negotiated in 1117).<BR>
<BR>
Thus, off the top of my head, I see three possible conclusions:<BR>
<BR>
1.  IRIS exists, and Strephon (or his imposter) did not know of its<BR>
existence;<BR>
<BR>
2.  IRIS exists, and Strephon was not truthful in his journals;<BR>
<BR>
3.  IRIS, rather than being an actual Imperial agency, is a group of<BR>
unscrupulous intel weenies who are taking advantage of the chaos of the<BR>
Rebellion to make a naked power grab.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure that there are other possibilities, but they don't occur to me<BR>
at the moment.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
_____________________[Peter Newman Says]___________________________<BR>
<BR>
> Well, if one can believe the excerpts from Emperor Strephon's journals,<BR>
> as quoted in _Survival Margin_, IRIS is not a recognized Imperial<BR>
> agency.  (Or, at least, Emperor Strephon states in his journals that he<BR>
> had no knowledge of IRIS prior to its assertion of authority during the<BR>
> Rebellion.)<BR>
<BR>
That's not necessarily what he means, it is not what he<BR>
_says_.<BR>
<BR>
> Note that, in _Survival Margin_, the earliest TNS story (at least the<BR>
> earliest I found in skimming the TNS entries) that referred to IRIS was<BR>
> dated 118-1121 (although the story referred to a 60-day cease-fire in<BR>
> the Solomani Rim, negotiated in 1117).<BR>
><BR>
> Thus, off the top of my head, I see three possible conclusions:<BR>
><BR>
> 1.  IRIS exists, and Strephon (or his imposter) did not know of its<BR>
> existence;<BR>
><BR>
> 2.  IRIS exists, and Strephon was not truthful in his journals;<BR>
><BR>
> 3.  IRIS, rather than being an actual Imperial agency, is a group of<BR>
> unscrupulous intel weenies who are taking advantage of the chaos of the<BR>
> Rebellion to make a naked power grab.<BR>
><BR>
> I'm sure that there are other possibilities, but they don't occur to me<BR>
> at the moment.<BR>
<BR>
Strephon's exact quote is:<BR>
<BR>
"Who are these IRIS people? You'd think that I might have<BR>
heard of them once or twice." [Survival Margin p. 28]<BR>
<BR>
4. IRIS exists. Strephon's journal article questioned not the<BR>
existence of the Agency but rather whether these particular<BR>
people actually were high level IRIS operatives. Notice that<BR>
he says "Who are these IRIS people and not "What is this<BR>
IRIS agency?" Therefore Strephon is not denying the<BR>
existence of IRIS, rather what he is saying is "I worked<BR>
closely with IRIS, one of my government's spy agencies, and<BR>
I do not recognize the names of these people."<BR>
<BR>
If a US President were to say "Who are these CIA people?"<BR>
would you interpret this as "I have never heard of the<BR>
CIA." or as "I don't know who these particular guys are.<BR>
If they work for the CIA then they are low enough level<BR>
personnel that I have never heard of them."<BR>
<BR>
It is perfectly legitimate to assume that IRIS does exist.<BR>
This is, IMNSHO, the most logical reading of what Strephon<BR>
said.<BR>
<BR>
_____________________[Robert Prior Says]__________________________<BR>
<BR>
Well, first off understand that IRIS is officially a variant. At least,<BR>
that's what has stated in the original article. It then showed up (without<BR>
the variant tag) in other articles by the same author (Chuck Gannon, IIRC),<BR>
and then was kinda debunked in TNE (Emperor Strephon wondering why he, as<BR>
emperor, hadn't heard of them!).  So in a sense you are free to do what you<BR>
choose.<BR>
<BR>
Your best bet for GURPS is probably GURPS Special Ops, in that IRIS agents<BR>
are supposed to be _extremely_ elite James Bond types. (I don't have G:SO,<BR>
just going by the book description.)<BR>
<BR>
I'd go with your third option (intel weenies) myself. The original IRIS<BR>
article (in Challenge) clearly stated that IRIS was a variant; I was<BR>
disappointed when GDW didn't edit out all Chuck Gannon's references to IRIS<BR>
in other work he did for them.<BR>
<BR>
_____________________[Gypsy Comet Says]__________________________<BR>
<BR>
 I choose the "Brothers of Varian" option, actually: A group<BR>
of "faces" whose very public campaign to determine the<BR>
proper replacement for the slain Strephon is designed to<BR>
discomfort/enrage Lucan, thereby making him less fit<BR>
with every passing day.<BR>
<BR>
 Then there are the real world causes: IRIS started life<BR>
as a _variant_ super-organization published in Challenge<BR>
and created by Chuck Gannon. The appearance of IRIS in<BR>
the OTU is directly related to Chuck becoming Line<BR>
Editor ~two years later, and Strephon's quote in Survival<BR>
Margin is directly related to Chuck's departure from GDW<BR>
at the end of the MT era.<BR>
<BR>
 I found IRIS to be a rather offensive concept when it<BR>
first appeared, was dismayed by it's transformation from<BR>
variant to official, and overjoyed at Strephon's words in<BR>
Survival Margin.  IRIS was never real in Chuck Gannon's<BR>
sense in MTU. Not for a second.<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
_____________________[Paul Campbell Says]__________________________<BR>
<BR>
The original information published regarding IRIS is in issues 33<BR>
(background)<BR>
and 34 (character generation) of Challenge magazine.  The work of Charles E<BR>
Gannon.  They were created by Empress (Emperor?) Arbellatra as her first,<BR>
although not very well known, act as Emperor.<BR>
<BR>
Arbellatra brought the end to the Civil War by appointing herself as Regent<BR>
rather than immediately ascending to the Iridium Thrown.  She created IRIS<BR>
'...an independent and powerful regent capable of ensuring the smooth<BR>
succession of the throne's rightful heirs the Imperial Regency of<BR>
Intelligence<BR>
and Security, or "IRIS".'<BR>
<BR>
So, IRIS has been around for around 500 years.<BR>
<BR>
'...what was needed was an independent, invisible force with the power to<BR>
eliminate individuals who would contest the lawful Emperor or his/her<BR>
successors."<BR>
<BR>
IRIS were involved in conducting pre-audience psi screenings, until they<BR>
were<BR>
relieved of this duty in 30-1115.  Among those who wanted rid of the psi<BR>
screenings were a sizable number of Illelish nobles.  Strephon was<BR>
definitely aware of IRIS, when IRIS offered to remove themselves for their<BR>
role<BR>
in security at the palace should Strephon wish this.  Strephon accepted and<BR>
relieved them of one of their five Mandates.<BR>
<BR>
 --<BR>
Paul Campbell<BR>
_____________________[End Quotes; Thom Says]_______________________<BR>
<BR>
I liked IRIS myself, but I think I am in the minority on this.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 12:01:56 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I pulled some old responses and copied them below......<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
I wrote (back in January 2000):<BR>
> <BR>
> 3.  IRIS, rather than being an actual Imperial agency, is a group of<BR>
> unscrupulous intel weenies who are taking advantage of the chaos of the<BR>
> Rebellion to make a naked power grab.<BR>
<BR>
I write (now):<BR>
<BR>
As an intel weenie myself, I _still_ think that this is the most likely<BR>
possibility.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
> _____________________[End Quotes; Thom Says]_______________________<BR>
> <BR>
> I liked IRIS myself, but I think I am in the minority on this.<BR>
<BR>
I like the general concept of a small, elite covert agency that answers<BR>
only to the Emperor.  However, from what little I've read of IRIS, I<BR>
think that IRIS was a flawed implementation of this type of agency.  Of<BR>
course, most of what I've read about IRIS is from _Survival Margin_, so<BR>
there may be some bias.... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
I'd prefer something like SOTE (Service Of The Emperor) or (for a more<BR>
cinematic campaign) CURE from the "Destroyer" series of action/adventure<BR>
novels.<BR>
<BR>
Now, for a more Illuminated approach, one can always have a covert<BR>
agency whose loyalty is to the _Imperium_, rather than to the Emperor or<BR>
any particular faction.  The distinction means that said agency can and<BR>
will act to thwart the will of the Emperor, if the Emperor's actions<BR>
would be detrimental to the Imperium as a whole.  Naturally, this<BR>
determination would be made by the agency itself....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 11:09:17<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:24 AM 9/2/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>1.  IRIS exists, and Strephon (or his imposter) did not know of its<BR>
>existence;<BR>
<BR>
Except that it was Strephon.  It said so in the back of the Arrival Vengence.<BR>
<BR>
That was the nicest thing I ever saw a game company do, confirming that.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 14:46:59 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
>sounds like Hasbro is trying to have its' cake and eat it too...ie; they<BR>
want<BR>
>to not only attract new blood, but keep the D+D grognards happy by not<BR>
>changing it so much that they become alienated-we all know Traveller<BR>
doesn't<BR>
>have that problem...:-).<BR>
<BR>
Traveller, heavens no! :)<BR>
<BR>
>Remember: this is Hasbro-they will print what sells;<BR>
>not neccessarily what is a better/and more elegant rules system.<BR>
<BR>
From what I've seen and heard since Hasbro purchased D&D, there's no real<BR>
indication that Hasbro has its eyes on simply trying to print what sells.<BR>
From what I've seen and heard coming from WotC internally, it doesn't even<BR>
seem that Hasbro is really calling the shots on the products.<BR>
<BR>
As I've mentioned before on the list, a friend of mine is a G.I. Joe<BR>
collector. It seems that Hasbro has a pretty good track record when it comes<BR>
to keeping fans. In the past they've put out various toys, at a loss, to<BR>
show their appreciation for the collectors. As a result, I'm not going to<BR>
knock them too much.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, the game itself really doesn't feel like the result of<BR>
such an ethic. I've been studying the rules pretty carefully since they came<BR>
out, and the new system is more appealing to me in many ways than 2nd<BR>
edition - in other words, I'm of the opinion that it's "better". On the<BR>
other hand, the new rules seem smoother, tighter and less klunky. It<BR>
certainly seems that it's more "elegant" than previous versions have been.<BR>
<BR>
>IMHO; I  think EVERY person in this hobby from game manufacturer down to<BR>
the<BR>
>lowliest rugrat gamer should be cheering on D+D III, as its' success can<BR>
only<BR>
>improve our chances of more "mainstreaming" our hobby.<BR>
<BR>
To a large extent, I agree, and I've been saying that whenever anyone will<BR>
listen for quite some time now. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3006<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3007</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 3 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3007<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
Re: IRIS question<BR>
Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
Re: IRIS question (Long Response) (no longer long)<BR>
Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
compact (sizewise) games wishlist<BR>
Re: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
Re: IRIS question<BR>
Re: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
Re: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
RE: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
Intersting Site<BR>
Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 15:01:59 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
<BR>
>However, from what little I've read of IRIS, I<BR>
think that IRIS was a flawed implementation of this type of agency.  <<BR>
<BR>
A version of IRIS appeared long ago in Dragon magazine while it still had<BR>
the "The" at the beginning and wasn't a total house organ.<BR>
That version was...excessive to say the least. The version in Challenge was<BR>
somewhat better, but overall it always came off as an attempt to be total<BR>
space opera in Traveller, with players that were powerful Psionicists, had<BR>
tons of skills, lots of funky secret squirrel gimmicks and back up and were<BR>
all still physically competent due to lack of aging.<BR>
I tend to ignore them whenever possible myself.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 15:33:19 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
Regarding the notion that IRIS isn't a recognized Imperial organization,<BR>
does that come entirely from the quote by Strephon (i.e., "Who are these<BR>
IRIS people? You think I would have heard of them once or twice")?  If so,<BR>
I'd have to agree with one of the responses posted, which said that this<BR>
sounds like a reference to particular personel, and not the organization<BR>
as a whole.  It seems a little silly for the emperor never to have heard<BR>
of an agency (recognized or not) that's been around for several centuries. <BR>
<BR>
The idea that he was saying something like "Who are these CIA people?"<BR>
(i.e., who are these particular CIA people) sounds right to me.  <BR>
<BR>
Mind you, I'm just basing this on quotes taken out of context, so...<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 18:52:03 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
<BR>
I was cruising Usenet rec.games.frp.misc and saw this: <A HREF="aol://5863:126/rec.games.frp.misc:281426">New Judges Guild & Pegasus 
Mag are they out of business?</A> <BR>
<BR>
does this mean that we won't see the Traveller reprints?...:-(<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 18:09:00 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
<BR>
Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I was cruising Usenet rec.games.frp.misc and saw this: <A<BR>
> HREF="aol://5863:126/rec.games.frp.misc:281426">New Judges Guild & Pegasus<BR>
> Mag are they out of business?<BR>
> <BR>
> does this mean that we won't see the Traveller reprints?...:-(<BR>
<BR>
Well, the Judges Guild Web site is still running.  OTOH, the last update<BR>
to JG's "Latest News" page was on 15 June 1999, so I don't know how<BR>
viable JG is at this point.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.judgesguild.com/<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:32:23 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "John Groth" <wombat@premier.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2000 1:01 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question (Long Response)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Thom Harris wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I pulled some old responses and copied them below......<BR>
><BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> I wrote (back in January 2000):<BR>
> ><BR>
> > 3.  IRIS, rather than being an actual Imperial agency, is a group of<BR>
> > unscrupulous intel weenies who are taking advantage of the chaos of the<BR>
> > Rebellion to make a naked power grab.<BR>
><BR>
> I write (now):<BR>
><BR>
> As an intel weenie myself, I _still_ think that this is the most likely<BR>
> possibility.<BR>
><BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
The only problem with this response is, IRIS is supposed to have been around<BR>
for almost 500 years.....It couldn't be a product of the Rebellion if this<BR>
were the case. I don't disagree that they are probably taking advantage of<BR>
the rebellion though.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 19:16:52 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question (Long Response) (no longer long)<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > 3.  IRIS, rather than being an actual Imperial agency, is a group of<BR>
> > > unscrupulous intel weenies who are taking advantage of the chaos of the<BR>
> > > Rebellion to make a naked power grab.<BR>
> ><BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> The only problem with this response is, IRIS is supposed to have been around<BR>
> for almost 500 years.....It couldn't be a product of the Rebellion if this<BR>
> were the case. I don't disagree that they are probably taking advantage of<BR>
> the rebellion though.<BR>
<BR>
*According to IRIS agents*, IRIS has been around since Arbellatra.  The<BR>
whole of Emperor Strephon's journal entry (_Survival Margin_, page 28)<BR>
indicates that Strephon regarded them as opportunistic super-spies, with<BR>
no authentic mandate.  A reigning emperor _should_ know of such an<BR>
agency, if it existed.<BR>
<BR>
If need be, I can type and post the entire passage (being less than one<BR>
page, it falls under "fair use"). Unless asked, though, I'll save myself<BR>
the typing and the list the bandwidth.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 18:24:50 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Gearhead Question - Static Gas Lift and Low Gravity<BR>
<BR>
"Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> I've got a TL6 (GURPS) planet with 0.85g surface gravity and a dense<BR>
> nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere - 1.37 atms at sea level. Up until eight years ago<BR>
> they were GTL9 but a horrendous civil war, attempted genocide and subsequant<BR>
> Imperial Intervention have knocked theere technical recovery back down. There is<BR>
> some recovery (to early GTL7) but they are critically short of expertise (for<BR>
> reasons I wont go into at the moment)<BR>
> <BR>
> My question is - how much more efficient to things like blimps and Zeps get in<BR>
> such conditions. <BR>
<BR>
The planets weather will be a big factor. If the planet can't<BR>
predict storms (I suspect the Imperium destroyed their weather<BR>
satellites) and the blimps can't outrun them then they blimps<BR>
will be quite vulnerable to storms. In general blimps and zeppelins<BR>
are not as useful as surface ships.<BR>
<BR>
I suspect the planet will be using the ill maintained dregs<BR>
of their older TL 9 stuff (Much as the Russian's are using the<BR>
increasingly ill maintained dregs of Soviet military equipment)<BR>
and some newer equipment. Assuming that the civil war and<BR>
the intervention would have destroyed most of the railroads<BR>
and some of the roads then boats are definitely the way to go.<BR>
<BR>
> I'm using G:Ve2 but any general comments would be welcome as<BR>
> well.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 23:39:49 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: compact (sizewise) games wishlist<BR>
<BR>
I just watched MSNBC's newshows on the subforces (pretty good though they <BR>
insist on saying that Oscar's carry ballistic missiles...), and I saw a scene <BR>
of a dozen or so sailors reading and playing cards in the enlisted mess of an <BR>
LA boat. This gave me an idea; if you were limited as far as personal storage <BR>
space (and I assume submariners are VERY space challenged...), what games <BR>
would you bring (though I assume submariners are FAR too busy to wargame on <BR>
their infrequent spare time)?<BR>
<BR>
Here's my "short list":<BR>
<BR>
1) Traveller (DUH...). In this case LBB's 1,2,3,4,5,6 crammed into the small <BR>
CT box.<BR>
2) Steve Jackson Games OGRE/GEV. In this case the latest version as the <BR>
Reinforcement Pack, and Shockwave fit into the VCR box...<BR>
3) Task Force Games Starfire, Starfire II, Starfire III, and Robots. These <BR>
are the old ziplock bag games<BR>
4) some small dice crammed into one of the boxes<BR>
<BR>
I can fit these all into a small bag, though I doubt I would be allowed to <BR>
bring them into a military situation (though my friend Ken did play Ogre with <BR>
another platoon LT. on the turret of his tank in Germany...:-)<BR>
<BR>
Ob trav: IMTU Starfire is what Star Trek is to real life; tri-vid <BR>
entertainment...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 02:31:02 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
><BR>
>In my grad school days I attended a colloquim on piadic (pi-adic)<BR>
>numbers.  I recall piadic numbers were in a base-pi system.  Well,<BR>
>that's pretty strange.  The lecturer thought that base-pi might be the<BR>
>"natural" number system of the universe.  Unfortunately/needless to say,<BR>
>I've never heard anything else about piadic numbers.<BR>
<BR>
That reminds of the movie "Pi" (actually using the Greek letter, but I can't<BR>
find it in ASCII just now), and that movie suggests that if you think too<BR>
much about this problem you are in danger of becoming insane, converting to<BR>
cabalistic Judaism, manipulating the public securities markets at undreamt<BR>
levels -- or all three.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 02:31:06 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
<BR>
>From: Paul =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=FCnnap?= <paul@sorainen.ee><BR>
><BR>
>> Hungarian is not even related to any of those languages... the closest<BR>
>> related language of Hungarian is Finnish, BTW.<BR>
><BR>
>And that link is perceivable only to some linguists. No Finnic-language<BR>
>speaker will understand a word of Hungarian.<BR>
<BR>
I understand they're as close as English and Farsi.<BR>
<BR>
My Finnish mother and Hungarian nanny, neither of whom spoke English well<BR>
when I was little, often broke down laughing when they tried to communicate.<BR>
Still, my mom told me that when she immigrated to Canada in the early 1950s,<BR>
she stayed for a while with a Hungarian family, who called the Finns their<BR>
"little cousins," because they recognized their common roots.  I don't know<BR>
if it was just that family or Hungarians in general.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller:  There is no doubt some portable background stuff here.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 02:31:08 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Babelfish (was: Re: 2 Things)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
<BR>
>I thought Finnish was Finno-Ugrik and Hungarian was Magyar. As far as I can<BR>
>tell neither family is really Proto-Indo-European descended.<BR>
<BR>
"Ugric" refers to Hungary and the Hungarian language.  I understand that<BR>
Magyar refers to the Hungarian people, but not the land or language.  The<BR>
Finno-Ugric languages are not Indo-European.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 05:04:33 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
- --- Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
In regards to the "who are these IRIS people" quote, most people around<BR>
here (Southerners) would take it to mean that Strephon had never heard<BR>
of IRIS.<BR>
<BR>
Like many things, the actual interpretation is in the mind of the<BR>
reader.  It would have been great hearing him actually saying said<BR>
quote, as intonation could easily confirm one position or the other.<BR>
<BR>
> Regarding the notion that IRIS isn't a recognized Imperial<BR>
> organization,<BR>
> does that come entirely from the quote by Strephon (i.e., "Who are<BR>
> these<BR>
> IRIS people? You think I would have heard of them once or twice")? <BR>
> If so,<BR>
> I'd have to agree with one of the responses posted, which said that<BR>
> this<BR>
> sounds like a reference to particular personel, and not the<BR>
> organization<BR>
> as a whole.  It seems a little silly for the emperor never to have<BR>
> heard<BR>
> of an agency (recognized or not) that's been around for several<BR>
> centuries. <BR>
> <BR>
> The idea that he was saying something like "Who are these CIA<BR>
> people?"<BR>
> (i.e., who are these particular CIA people) sounds right to me.  <BR>
> <BR>
> Mind you, I'm just basing this on quotes taken out of context, so...<BR>
> <BR>
> Charles C.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 04:33:31 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
>><BR>
>>In my grad school days I attended a colloquim on piadic (pi-adic)<BR>
>>numbers.  I recall piadic numbers were in a base-pi system.  Well,<BR>
>>that's pretty strange.  The lecturer thought that base-pi might be the<BR>
>>"natural" number system of the universe.  Unfortunately/needless to say,<BR>
>>I've never heard anything else about piadic numbers.<BR>
><BR>
> That reminds of the movie "Pi" (actually using the Greek letter, but I can't<BR>
> find it in ASCII just now), and that movie suggests that if you think too<BR>
> much about this problem you are in danger of becoming insane, converting to<BR>
> cabalistic Judaism, manipulating the public securities markets at undreamt<BR>
> levels -- or all three.<BR>
<BR>
Or you are just a hiver...:-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 10:46:21 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
<BR>
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
> ><BR>
> >In my grad school days I attended a colloquim on piadic (pi-adic)<BR>
> >numbers.  I recall piadic numbers were in a base-pi system.  Well,<BR>
> >that's pretty strange.  The lecturer thought that base-pi might be the<BR>
> >"natural" number system of the universe.  Unfortunately/needless to say,<BR>
> >I've never heard anything else about piadic numbers.<BR>
> <BR>
> That reminds of the movie "Pi" (actually using the Greek letter, but I can't<BR>
> find it in ASCII just now), and that movie suggests that if you think too<BR>
> much about this problem you are in danger of becoming insane, converting to<BR>
> cabalistic Judaism, manipulating the public securities markets at undreamt<BR>
> levels -- or all three.<BR>
<BR>
Well, of course.  That's what you get for trying to think rationally<BR>
about an irrational number....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 11:52:17 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Weird Mathematical Thingies<BR>
<BR>
>That reminds of the movie "Pi" (actually using the Greek letter, but I<BR>
can't<BR>
>find it in ASCII just now), and that movie suggests that if you think too<BR>
>much about this problem you are in danger of becoming insane, converting to<BR>
>cabalistic Judaism, manipulating the public securities markets at undreamt<BR>
>levels -- or all three.<BR>
<BR>
While those are certainly dangers of thinking too long about Pi, you do get<BR>
a cool soundtrack.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 13:32:20 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Intersting Site<BR>
<BR>
Ran across the following site, thought some might find it interesting<BR>
regards commercialization of space.<BR>
<BR>
www.SpaceEquity.com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:26:21 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
<BR>
An Interesting question has arisen. The players have a free trader and are <BR>
making a comfortable living (well okay, keeping there heads above water) <BR>
running as a tramp between a group of non-Imperial worlds. Now, the <BR>
Imperium requires that 50% of all maintaince on Imperial registered ships <BR>
is done on member worlds (GT:FT p74). Now the players have developed a <BR>
number of contacts who rely on them running the route regularly and they <BR>
don't want to go off to an Imperial port for several weeks (travel time plus <BR>
maint adds up to about 10 weeks) to do annual maint (disrupting their <BR>
contracts etc). So they want to change the ships registery to one of the <BR>
worlds on their regular route.<BR>
<BR>
Just what is involved and who much would it cost? I figure that they would <BR>
have to reregister on the new world (pay a fee of say 1% ships value), travel <BR>
to a major Imperial world and deregister (another hefty fee). Or would the <BR>
Imperium make it harder (say like having to go to the Imperial port they are <BR>
registered in to deregister).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3007<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3008</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 4 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3008<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
GENCON UK 2000<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3007<BR>
Re: Changing a ship's registry<BR>
Re: Changing a ship's registry<BR>
Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
Re: IRIS question<BR>
RE: IRIS question<BR>
RE: compact (sizewise) games wishlist<BR>
RE: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
Re: IRIS question<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3007<BR>
GT SHIP: Locutus Class 2,000-ton Container Transport (TL10)<BR>
GDW 17"x22" Map<BR>
Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
Re: Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
Nukes...???  MegaTraveller<BR>
RE: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller<BR>
Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 00:30:28 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
Well, it's the end of the Con, and the more foolhardy of our British<BR>
players are probably still drinking in Club Underground. But I'm home at my<BR>
PC, with a brief after-con report.<BR>
<BR>
BITS was well represented, with (eight or ten, I think) badged and<BR>
be-teeshirted members helping to run things. Games of T4 and GURPS<BR>
Traveller were run through the weekend, as were ACQ demos and games of the<BR>
new version of Trav: Full  Thrust.<BR>
<BR>
Far too many people got far too little sleep, MAG Blast was played by most,<BR>
and I got killed first. It was great to meet a bunch of people off the list<BR>
in real life, including Eammon, whose appearence in the last minutes of the<BR>
Con really took me by surprise.<BR>
<BR>
And my spies report that the Silly Adventure was indeed very funny, which<BR>
will probably be a relief to Dom and Andy.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
Tired, and going to bed.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 19:50:33 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3007<BR>
<BR>
>  I was cruising Usenet rec.games.frp.misc and saw this: <A HREF="aol://5863:126/rec.games.frp.misc:281426">New Judges Guild & 
> Pegasus 
>  Mag are they out of business?</A> <BR>
>  <BR>
>  does this mean that we won't see the Traveller reprints?...:-(<BR>
<BR>
You know my feelings on internet rumors  . . . <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 20:46:17 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Changing a ship's registry<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:26:21 +1200<BR>
>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
>Subject: Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
><BR>
>So they want to change the ships registery to one of the <BR>
>worlds on their regular route.<BR>
><BR>
>Just what is involved and how much would it cost? I figure that they would <BR>
>have to reregister on the new world (pay a fee of say 1% ships value),<BR>
travel <BR>
>to a major Imperial world and deregister (another hefty fee). Or would the <BR>
>Imperium make it harder (say like having to go to the Imperial port they are <BR>
>registered in to deregister).<BR>
<BR>
The Imperium won't care where they are registered... until they try to<BR>
cross back into the Imperium. Then they either (1) pay the penalty for<BR>
foreign maintenance (which just happens to bring the amount spent in the<BR>
Imperium to 50%), plus the cost of a full safety inspection (I forget the<BR>
amount, but I think it's Cr50,000), or (2) they apply for entry as a<BR>
foreign vessel, and put up with whatever bureaucratic hassles that entails<BR>
(which should be substantially more than #1 above, by the time they get<BR>
done). Most people just pay the penalty and for the safety inspection, if<BR>
they plan to do regular business in the Imperium. They could also try to<BR>
get the Imperial Legate to waive the penalty when they return from foreign,<BR>
if their voyage is such that they *can't* get back to do the annual<BR>
maintenance, and they aren't obviously just trying to circumvent the<BR>
requirement (though they'll still need the safety inspection).<BR>
<BR>
Remember that ship registration is a function of the member worlds, not the<BR>
Imperium per se -- the Imperium just says that you must have a registration<BR>
from a member world, and some of the data that must be contained in it.<BR>
Remember also that Imperial client states are probably "Imperial" for the<BR>
purposes of maintenance, if that makes a difference. If your players want<BR>
to blow off their Imperial registry and remain foreign, the laws of the<BR>
world they register on are the only ones they need worry about. Your 1% fee<BR>
looks about right; another possible figure is a flat Cr100,000 fee (for<BR>
salvage registration, from _Annic Nova_).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 20:40:04 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Changing a ship's registry<BR>
<BR>
Christopher Thrash wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:26:21 +1200<BR>
> >From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
> >Subject: Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
> ><BR>
> >So they want to change the ships registery to one of the<BR>
> >worlds on their regular route.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Just what is involved and how much would it cost? I figure that they would<BR>
> >have to reregister on the new world (pay a fee of say 1% ships value),<BR>
> travel<BR>
> >to a major Imperial world and deregister (another hefty fee). Or would the<BR>
> >Imperium make it harder (say like having to go to the Imperial port they are<BR>
> >registered in to deregister).<BR>
> <BR>
> The Imperium won't care where they are registered... until they try to<BR>
> cross back into the Imperium. Then they either (1) pay the penalty for<BR>
> foreign maintenance (which just happens to bring the amount spent in the<BR>
> Imperium to 50%), plus the cost of a full safety inspection (I forget the<BR>
> amount, but I think it's Cr50,000), or (2) they apply for entry as a<BR>
> foreign vessel, and put up with whatever bureaucratic hassles that entails<BR>
> (which should be substantially more than #1 above, by the time they get<BR>
> done). Most people just pay the penalty and for the safety inspection, if<BR>
> they plan to do regular business in the Imperium. They could also try to<BR>
> get the Imperial Legate to waive the penalty when they return from foreign,<BR>
> if their voyage is such that they *can't* get back to do the annual<BR>
> maintenance, and they aren't obviously just trying to circumvent the<BR>
> requirement (though they'll still need the safety inspection).<BR>
<BR>
One way to help the PCs argue for a waiver of the penalty would be for<BR>
them to register all maintenance performed outside the Imperium with<BR>
Imperial diplomatic representatives (if present) on one of the worlds on<BR>
their route.  This would demonstrate a good-faith effort to comply with<BR>
the "official" justification for the 50% requirement (preventing illegal<BR>
modifications).<BR>
<BR>
Of course, with an appropriate recognition of the administrative<BR>
difficulties ("bribes", to the unsophisticated), the players might be<BR>
able to convince the Imperial diplomatic representative to certify the<BR>
foreign shipyard as meeting Imperial safety and accountability<BR>
standards, thus allowing a waiver of the requirement.  Ideally, this<BR>
waiver will extend to authorizing the foreign shipyard to conduct annual<BR>
safety inspections.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 00:26:24 GMT<BR>
From: "Mark A.Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<BR>
<BR>
On 04/09/00, 08:30:28, "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> <BR>
wrote regarding GENCON UK 2000:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, it's the end of the Con, and the more foolhardy of our British<BR>
> players are probably still drinking in Club Underground. But I'm home at <BR>
my<BR>
> PC, with a brief after-con report.<BR>
[snip]<BR>
> Tired, and going to bed.<BR>
<BR>
Sleep well, Nick. Nice con, wasn't it?<BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark A. Preston               E-mail: mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
"Life is no big mystery, its why we bother with it at all that confuses <BR>
me"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 03:49:04 +0200<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin <BR>
<BR>
>Regarding the notion that IRIS isn't a recognized Imperial organization,<BR>
>does that come entirely from the quote by Strephon (i.e., "Who are these<BR>
>IRIS people? You think I would have heard of them once or twice")?<BR>
<BR>
It comes mainly from the fact that IRIS was clearly labled as a variant when<BR>
it was first published in _Challenge_. Later they snuck into various TNS<BR>
newsbriefs, and I've always regarded the Strephon diary entry as one of the<BR>
most elegant ways to account for a discrepancy that I've ever seen.<BR>
<BR>
>If so, I'd have to agree with one of the responses posted, which said that<BR>
>this sounds like a reference to particular personel, and not the organization<BR>
>as a whole. It seems a little silly for the emperor never to have heard<BR>
>of an agency (recognized or not) that's been around for several centuries. <BR>
<BR>
It's only silly if it has been around for several centuries. Otherwise it is<BR>
quite reasonable that he has never heard of them.<BR>
<BR>
>The idea that he was saying something like "Who are these CIA people?"<BR>
>(i.e., who are these particular CIA people) sounds right to me.  <BR>
 <BR>
Well, why would he be surprised that he had never heard of a particular bunch of<BR>
IRIS personnel? Unless it is the head agency people or his personal bodyguards,<BR>
the US president wouldn't wonder why he'd never heard of this or that CIA agent,<BR>
would he? And with the chaos and confusion of the Rebellion, why would he even<BR>
be surprised that he hadn't heard about the head of IRIS, since the old one<BR>
could easily have died in the meantime?<BR>
<BR>
More to the point: We have two possible interpretations of the Strephon quote. I<BR>
would regard one as being more plausible than the other, but that may be my<BR>
personal bias intruding. So let's just say that they are both at least possible.<BR>
Well, one interpretation means that the information in the original article is<BR>
completely correct and the other interpretation means that part of the<BR>
information is wrong. Given that, I suggest that we should opt for the<BR>
interpretation that does not create any conflict. So as far as I'm concerned,<BR>
IRIS didn't exist until a bunch of opportunists invented a tall tale during the<BR>
Rebellion and Strephon had never heard of either them or their spurious<BR>
organisation.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 03:02:28 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
Koji Suzuki wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> I was wondering what issue of JTAS, Challenge, or if there<BR>
> was anyplace on<BR>
> the web that I could find info about IRIS.  I remember<BR>
> reading about it way<BR>
> back when, and I was planning on incorporating something<BR>
> into my campaign.<BR>
><BR>
> Thanks for any info.<BR>
><BR>
> Koj<BR>
<BR>
From the latest BITS Publication "The Periodical Bibliography", I see<BR>
that IRIS is mentioned in four places in the Index:<BR>
<BR>
Challenge 33: "IRIS" [Background Article]<BR>
Challenge 34: "Generating IRIS Characters" [Rules Article]<BR>
Challenge 36: "The Green Hills of Earth" [Adventure]<BR>
Challenge 50: "No Time to Rest" [Adventure]<BR>
<BR>
HTH,<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 03:02:30 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: compact (sizewise) games wishlist<BR>
<BR>
Sethkimmel wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> This gave me an idea; if you were limited as far <BR>
> as personal storage <BR>
> space (and I assume submariners are VERY space <BR>
> challenged...), what games <BR>
> would you bring (though I assume submariners are FAR too <BR>
> busy to wargame on <BR>
> their infrequent spare time)?<BR>
> <BR>
> Here's my "short list":<BR>
<BR>
<snip> <BR>
<BR>
> I can fit these all into a small bag, though I doubt I <BR>
> would be allowed to <BR>
> bring them into a military situation (though my friend Ken <BR>
> did play Ogre with <BR>
> another platoon LT. on the turret of his tank in Germany...:-)<BR>
<BR>
MAG*BLAST!!!!! as anyone from the BITS Demo Team will concur...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
(Who finally got a copy at GenCon UK!)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 03:02:31 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, it's the end of the Con, and the more foolhardy of our British<BR>
> players are probably still drinking in Club Underground.<BR>
> But I'm home at my<BR>
> PC, with a brief after-con report.<BR>
<BR>
Well, Dom, Derrick, Nick Walker and myself left at ~18:30 after taking<BR>
down the stand with Andy and Roger, who were about to leave<BR>
themselves. AFAIK, by that time all the BITS Demo Team were winging<BR>
their respective ways home to soft beds, more than 4 hours sleep and<BR>
hangover free mornings...<BR>
<BR>
> BITS was well represented, with (eight or ten, I think) badged and<BR>
> be-teeshirted members helping to run things. Games of T4 and GURPS<BR>
> Traveller were run through the weekend, as were ACQ demos<BR>
> and games of the new version of Trav: Full  Thrust.<BR>
<BR>
I think the most we had running simultaneously was 3 or 4 GT/T4 demos,<BR>
and 1 each of ACQ and Full Thrust. Over the whole 4 days I think there<BR>
were about 7 or 8 ACQ demo's [including at least one 'double blind'<BR>
with 2 tables], 7 T:FT demo's, 9 GT/T4 demo games, and 8 Tournament<BR>
games... 30+ games, by 11 referees [Andy, Dom, Nick Bradbeer, Dave,<BR>
Richard, Roger, Nick Walker, Sam, Bradley, Megan, and myself], over 10<BR>
slots  Quite a feat! My apologies if I missed any one off the list,<BR>
though obviously with so much going on it was hard to keep track of<BR>
who did what!<BR>
<BR>
> Far too many people got far too little sleep, MAG Blast was<BR>
> played by most,<BR>
> and I got killed first. It was great to meet a bunch of<BR>
> people off the list<BR>
> in real life, including Eammon, whose appearance in the<BR>
> last minutes of the<BR>
> Con really took me by surprise.<BR>
<BR>
Actually Eammon was there throughout, and played in a few Traveller<BR>
games, though he wasn't a 'fixture' at the BITS stand but rather a<BR>
general player who happens to be a BITS member.<BR>
<BR>
I certainly echo the sentiments about putting faces and voices to<BR>
names from the list.<BR>
<BR>
> And my spies report that the Silly Adventure was indeed<BR>
> very funny, which<BR>
> will probably be a relief to Dom and Andy.<BR>
<BR>
It was indeed, though I often feel that such adventures are actually<BR>
funnier to read or write rather than play...<BR>
<BR>
> Nick<BR>
> Tired, and going to bed.<BR>
<BR>
Ditto.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 21:34:48 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> >From the latest BITS Publication "The Periodical Bibliography", I see<BR>
> that IRIS is mentioned in four places in the Index:<BR>
> <BR>
> Challenge 33: "IRIS" [Background Article]<BR>
> Challenge 34: "Generating IRIS Characters" [Rules Article]<BR>
> Challenge 36: "The Green Hills of Earth" [Adventure]<BR>
> Challenge 50: "No Time to Rest" [Adventure]<BR>
<BR>
Also, _Survival Margin_ (the transition book between MT and TNE) has<BR>
several mentions of IRIS, including Emperor Strephon's scathing comments<BR>
about "ueber-spies."  At least IRIS gave Strephon an honorable way to<BR>
opt out of the destruction (see _Survival Margin_, pages 30 and 31).<BR>
<BR>
** embarrassing epiphany moment**<BR>
<BR>
I have read Strephon's words dozens of times over the months since I<BR>
bought _Survival Margin_, yet not until tonight did I recognize his<BR>
reference to one of my favorite movies, "The Princess Bride."  (The<BR>
reference in question is "See you later!  Have fun storming the<BR>
castle!")<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 21:49:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3007<BR>
<BR>
>Regarding the notion that IRIS isn't a recognized Imperial organization,<BR>
>does that come entirely from the quote by Strephon (i.e., "Who are these<BR>
>IRIS people? You think I would have heard of them once or twice")?  If so,<BR>
>I'd have to agree with one of the responses posted, which said that this<BR>
>sounds like a reference to particular personel, and not the organization<BR>
>as a whole.<BR>
<BR>
Strephon also says something along the lines of "an organization to<BR>
determine who succeeds to the throne? Then what is the Moot for?"<BR>
or words to that effect. It's quite clear he doesn't believe in the entire<BR>
organization.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 02:03:16 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: GT SHIP: Locutus Class 2,000-ton Container Transport (TL10)<BR>
<BR>
This reply has also been sent to the newsgroups.<BR>
Locutus Class 2,000-ton Container Transport (TL10)<BR>
<BR>
While many cargo vessels can handle Series 4 Standardized Cargo<BR>
Containers, the Locutus class is one of the few designed to handle<BR>
such containers *exclusively.* Sometimes known as the Jack-in-a-box<BR>
or the Surprise Package due to its unique cubical shape, the ship is<BR>
divided into two equal halves; the hold section which is completely<BR>
accessible through six strategically placed spacedock doors, and the<BR>
crew section which contains everything else. As the hold, the fuel<BR>
tanks and the vehicle bays are completely grav free, only 1 utility<BR>
module is required to provide gravity to the crew spaces. A laser<BR>
turret on each corner of the 30 meter cube provides maximum fire<BR>
power for threats from any direction.<BR>
<BR>
The ship's routes are normally restricted to worlds with highports<BR>
or a trace or less atmosphere by its unstreamlined design with<BR>
orbit-to-ground transport handled by the modular cutter. The vehicle<BR>
bays for the module-fitted cutter and the two spare modules are all<BR>
parallel to and flush against the outer surface of the cube to speed<BR>
the switching of modules; while the cutter "lifts off" and offloads<BR>
its current module, either one of the spares may slide into position<BR>
to dock with the returning cutter. In addition, as long as one of<BR>
the module bays remains empty, the remaining module may be exchanged<BR>
for the cutter's current one by simply disengaging the clamps and<BR>
sliding it into position, pushing the old one into the empty bay.<BR>
The most common combination is a passenger module, a cargo module<BR>
and a fuel skimmer for wilderness refuelling, although along well<BR>
travelled routes the skimmer may be replaced by a quarters module to<BR>
carry extra passengers.<BR>
<BR>
CREW: Captain, 1st Officer/Pilot, 2nd Officer/Navigator, 3rd<BR>
    Officer/Pilot, 2 Sensor Operators, 2 Comm Operators, 2<BR>
    Deckhands, Purser/Cargomaster, Medic, Chief Engineer, 2<BR>
    Assistant Engineers, 5 Drive Hands, Chief Gunner, 7 Gunners.<BR>
DESIGN: 2,000-ton USL Hull, DR 100, Command Bridge, Engineering, 320<BR>
    Maneuver, 60 Jump, 400 Fuel, 3 Low Berths (capacity 12), 21<BR>
    Staterooms, Sickbay, 1 Utility, 3 Vehicle Bays (50-ton Modular<BR>
    Cutter, 2 x 30-ton Cutter Modules), 8 Turrets (with three TL10<BR>
    turret lasers each), 1000 Cargo, 6 Spacedock/Hangar (included in<BR>
    cargo hold), 3 Fuel Processors.<BR>
STATISTICS: EMass 2,947.0, LMass 7,947.0, Cost: MCr362.4. HP 90,000.<BR>
    Hull Size Modifier: +10. HT 12, maintenance period 91.4 man-hr/<BR>
    day (4.0 hr surplus).<BR>
PERFORMANCE: Accel 0.458 G (max. load)/1.61 Gs (normal load)/4.34 Gs<BR>
    (empty), Jump 2.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |  Gary Shandling pitches Dan Quayle and his oily  |<BR>
              |                   icon. FNORD!                   |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 00:21:57 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: GDW 17"x22" Map<BR>
<BR>
  FarFuture may still have these in stock (?); if not then Titan Games<BR>
has one (1) at a good price. That's the Known Space promo map, AFAIK,<BR>
not anyhting to do with the Imperium war-game.<BR>
<BR>
        http://www.titangames.com/<BR>
<BR>
>Game Designer's Workshop:<BR>
>    (Traveller)<BR>
>        17"x22" Imperium Map (?) [$2, VF]<BR>
>        Adv. 8 - Prison Planet (330) [$11, Fa]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 13:31:58 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
<BR>
In the UK it is a mistake to use the same gun twice, nationwide ballistic<BR>
'matches' are made as a matter of course and more than one criminal has been<BR>
caught through chasing his firearm down.<BR>
<BR>
Renting guns has the advantage of causing it to be used in a number of unrelated<BR>
crimes creating a series of investigative blind allys. Besides, being caught<BR>
with a firearm in your house is a serious offence, better to let someone else<BR>
take the risk.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
PS: Police and Underworld sources in the UK frequently over estimate the<BR>
availability of guns on the black market. Both groups like to promote their<BR>
image of being 'hard men' living on the edge.<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 6:25 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> on 8/24/00 8:25 PM, Mark Urbin at urbin@bigfoot.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >> Of course, here in the UK the hardest part would be getting hold of<BR>
> >> ammunition... :(<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I'll bet there is a brisk criminal trade in firearms & ammunition.<BR>
> > The cool Warsaw Pact military stuff still must be fairly common on the<BR>
> > black market.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Easier than making your own brass and powder probably.<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> I'm told that in Britain the normal course is to 'rent' guns for a job.  Ah,<BR>
> England.<BR>
><BR>
> Tod<BR>
> --<BR>
> "SolSec: Keeping the Confederation safe for Humaniti"<BR>
> --<BR>
> Tod Glenn<BR>
> webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
> webmaster@solsec.org<BR>
> --<BR>
> http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
> http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
> http://www.solsec.org<BR>
> http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 14:29:55 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 1:31 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> In the UK it is a mistake to use the same gun twice, nationwide ballistic<BR>
> 'matches' are made as a matter of course and more than one criminal has<BR>
been<BR>
> caught through chasing his firearm down.<BR>
<BR>
Shotguns being the exception here, though not as usefull as a .22 for ease<BR>
of kill, can be used again and again for general , 'need of gun,' purposes.<BR>
<BR>
most shootings occur at the victims front door, by an hooded wielder of a<BR>
shotgun, who's most likely effect from a shooting ins to scare the victim,<BR>
not necessarily cause a kill. So a shot gun caller, would be more than<BR>
suffice.<BR>
<BR>
I have been told by an assassin that most door to door shooters will not<BR>
fire upon women or children, they'll only fire upon upon Men, that answer<BR>
there calls.<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:11:34 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
<BR>
As a Gm who encourages players to "dis" the Imperium, I wouldn't have any<BR>
problem letting the players off with no more than a "registered" letter of<BR>
notification to the nearest Imperial registration office. But, on the<BR>
re-registration side, I would make it plain that there is a complete<BR>
mish-mash of different registration schemes outside of Imperial borders. If<BR>
the players frequent five trade worlds, I would have them research the rules<BR>
at each world so that they would find out:<BR>
<BR>
World 1: requires emigration to the world before a ship can be registered<BR>
there.  Citizenship on this world requires land ownership and that the<BR>
players pay annual taxes to the government.<BR>
<BR>
World 2: has very cheap fees (about half the norm) and liberal rules on ship<BR>
registry, but several of the other worlds routinely hassle ships registered<BR>
there because so many shady characters have used the system to register<BR>
stolen ships, etc.<BR>
<BR>
World 3: has an average fee and no heavy tax burdens, but they insist on<BR>
complete background checks on ship and crew, which takes an average of three<BR>
years. From the date of application until full registration is granted the<BR>
ships must use a probationary registration. During the probationary period,<BR>
they can typically expect a much higher level of scrutiny from port<BR>
authorities, plus a series of interviews and hundreds of forms to fill out.<BR>
The cost of the background investigation will be billed to the ship as it<BR>
proceeds.<BR>
<BR>
World 4: has a set of impossibly confusing and contradictory laws, rules and<BR>
executive orders that cover ship registry by outsiders. Weaving your way<BR>
through the process can be frustrating in the extreme. The process can be<BR>
greatly eased by application of bribes in just the right places. It is<BR>
well-known, however, that the bribes will become an expected part of doing<BR>
business on every level, even after registration is achieved. The good thing<BR>
is that about any shortcoming or fault in your background or that of the<BR>
ship can be overcome with the right amounts of cash applied in the right<BR>
places. Best of all, your money will buy respectability because of the high<BR>
status traders from this world have traditionally enjoyed.<BR>
<BR>
World 5: has minimal bureaucracy and reasonable fees, but all ships bearing<BR>
registry here become merchant marine and subject to call up for defense<BR>
purposes or escort duty. During official use the ship-owner is well<BR>
compensated (mercenary rates). This is a good choice for heavily armed<BR>
merchants or those with slightly questionable backgrounds because they are<BR>
expected to be fully armed and have had some gun-for-hire experience in<BR>
their past. The call ups can come at the most inopportune times, however ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
> Just what is involved and who much would it cost? I figure that they would<BR>
> have to reregister on the new world (pay a fee of say 1% ships value),<BR>
travel<BR>
> to a major Imperial world and deregister (another hefty fee). Or would the<BR>
> Imperium make it harder (say like having to go to the Imperial port they<BR>
are<BR>
> registered in to deregister).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 01:47:32 +1000<BR>
From: "steven" <steven@terra-australis-mandes.com.au><BR>
Subject: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller<BR>
<BR>
Just a quick question:<BR>
what raiting are the NUKES on starships (missles) in relation to<BR>
MegaTraveller<BR>
<BR>
steven spizick<BR>
(soon to be bombbarded by the bloody olmpics<BR>
eg Sydney 2000 GOD HELP ME!!!!!)<BR>
steven@terra-australis-mandes.com.au or<BR>
spizick@ihug.com.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 08:16:19 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller<BR>
<BR>
You get one roll on the radiation table, and one roll on the surface<BR>
explosion table (with a DM of +6). Other then that, they are treated as<BR>
normal missles.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of steven<BR>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 8:48 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Just a quick question:<BR>
what raiting are the NUKES on starships (missles) in relation to<BR>
MegaTraveller<BR>
<BR>
steven spizick<BR>
(soon to be bombbarded by the bloody olmpics<BR>
eg Sydney 2000 GOD HELP ME!!!!!)<BR>
steven@terra-australis-mandes.com.au or<BR>
spizick@ihug.com.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 12:49:13 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/4/00 1:33:55 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Shotguns being the exception here, though not as usefull as a .22 for ease<BR>
 of kill, can be used again and again for general , 'need of gun,' purposes.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
empty hulls can ID at least the TYPE of weapon from extractor/ejector <BR>
markings, so I guess doubles would be better than pumps and semi's....:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 18:11:11 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <Sethkimmel@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 5:49 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
>><BR>
empty hulls can ID at least the TYPE of weapon from extractor/ejector<BR>
 markings, so I guess doubles would be better than pumps and semi's....:-)<BR>
<<<BR>
<BR>
With a little fore thought, an empty cartridge collector, could be attached<BR>
to any automatic or semi-automatic shotguns. To prevent any evidence, of<BR>
that particular weapon being used, from deducing the weapons signature on<BR>
any the cartridges casings. Though make a cumbersome weapon, with increased<BR>
risk of weapon stoppage.<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 9/4/00 1:33:55 PM !!!First Boot!!!,<BR>
> michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net writes:<BR>
><BR>
> << Shotguns being the exception here, though not as usefull as a .22 for<BR>
ease<BR>
>  of kill, can be used again and again for general , 'need of gun,'<BR>
purposes.<BR>
>   >><BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3008<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3009<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
THUDDD<BR>
RE: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
Re: IRIS question<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Minor race census<BR>
OT: RE: Quotation Source on When you should be bringing your gun?<BR>
re: Out of Touch.<BR>
En Garde Was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
Re: Changing a ship's registry<BR>
Re: En Garde Was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
RE: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
RE: En Garde Was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
Re: En Garde Was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
Re: Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 18:23:22 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
<BR>
> I have been told by an assassin that most door to door shooters will not<BR>
> fire upon women or children, they'll only fire upon upon Men, that answer<BR>
> there calls.<BR>
<BR>
An assassin?<BR>
<BR>
Sheesh, and I thought I had friends with bizarre jobs....<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 18:30:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: THUDDD<BR>
<BR>
I was just sorting out some of the stuff in my room prior to going home,<BR>
and chanced across the deckplans I made for my THUDDD Commerce Raider.<BR>
Which reminds me:<BR>
<BR>
Did the contest happen when I was off the list during exams? (And if so who<BR>
won?) Or have we not had the voting yet? (And if so what are we waiting<BR>
for?)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
The terminally confused<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 18:40 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <LPBBLJLHIKCFJHDGMBLICEOFDEAA.semo@pil.net><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Just back from GenConUK, where I refereed TRAVELLER hotly followed by D&D <BR>
3rd Edition..... <BR>
<BR>
TRAVELLER was easy to run. Haven't refereed it for a couple of years, as <BR>
it happens, but it didn't need any thought at all.<BR>
<BR>
And the 3rd Ed. D&D? Well, it would have helped if I'd known a little <BR>
earlier that I had to run it. Or even been able to read the rules in <BR>
advance (heard at 0030h that I was DMing at 1000h, only managed to borrow <BR>
the rules at 0930h...) :-)<BR>
<BR>
But once you'd deduced the underlying mechanic (which as it happens I <BR>
did in the middle of the night even before I got my paws on the book!) the <BR>
d20 system is very straightforwards. Not so sure I like all of what <BR>
follows on from it (and, having had a sneak preview of the d20 STAR WARS I <BR>
am even less impressed with that). Too powerful too fast, basically.<BR>
<BR>
Class-based skills are designed to reflect the likelihood of encountering <BR>
skills and getting the opportunity to learn them. It's not just a game <BR>
mechanic to ensure a well-rounded party... after all you can encounter a <BR>
group where they all want to be thieves or wiz-bangs or whatever... even <BR>
if it does fulfil that role quite nicely. It's a 'shorthand' and, like <BR>
every single rpg rule, is there as a starting point: to be modified or <BR>
dropped or used as the DM sees fit. <BR>
<BR>
I would think it quite reasonable to say that a mage would be unlikely to <BR>
use a bow, it takes years of practice to be competent with the longbow and <BR>
the poor dear needs to study his spell books. Likewise your average 'jock' <BR>
of a fighter needs to spend his time in the practice yard, and so on.<BR>
<BR>
Just my 2 credits/2 copper pieces.... based on 23 years' roleplaying :-)<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:49:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: This is what Streetwise Skill is for<BR>
<BR>
From: Nick Bradbeer <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> I have been told by an assassin that most door to door shooters will not<BR>
fire upon women or children, they'll only fire upon upon Men, that answer<BR>
there calls.<BR>
>><BR>
>An assassin?<BR>
><BR>
>Sheesh, and I thought I had friends with bizarre jobs....<BR>
><BR>
yeah, really.  I thought it was beyond weird that one of my exes was the son<BR>
of a yakuza and another (female) was a stripper, but assassin beats those<BR>
hands down.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 16:36:15 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
On 09/03/00 at 05:04 AM,  Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>In regards to the "who are these IRIS people" quote, most people around<BR>
>here (Southerners) would take it to mean that Strephon had never heard of<BR>
>IRIS.<BR>
<BR>
>Like many things, the actual interpretation is in the mind of the reader. <BR>
>It would have been great hearing him actually saying said quote, as<BR>
>intonation could easily confirm one position or the other.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe Strephon meant, "Who are *these* IRIS people?  You'd think I'd<BR>
have heard of *them* once or twice." or maybe he meant, "Who are<BR>
these *IRIS* people?  You'd think *I'd* have heard of this agency<BR>
<sic> once or twice."  IMO, this *should* be left ambiguous so GM's<BR>
can go either (or both) ways on IRIS.<BR>
<BR>
An interpretation I like is that IRIS existed and Strephon knew about<BR>
it, but he didn't know these *particular* people.  That was<BR>
significant because they were supposed to be the Director and other<BR>
top members of the agency.  So, were they really representing IRIS<BR>
or just pretending to be part of that organization?  Were they what<BR>
was left of IRIS, and if so what happened to the people Strephon<BR>
would have known?  And because Strephon could confirm that *they*<BR>
were legitimate he rejected their request for proof that he was<BR>
legit.  You'll notice Lucan shot the IRIS representative that came<BR>
to him out of hand...but he seemed to do that a lot. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 17:42:06 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
At 7:51 -0400 28/8/00, "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net> wrote:<BR>
>I  have about 12 spare Power Macs that I can test it with :)<BR>
>Damn things are pretty much paperweights in my classroom.<BR>
<BR>
I doubt (having seen the resource demands of H&E on an NT 4 system) <BR>
that it's going to run happily on an SE30... :-/<BR>
<BR>
As a thought, if those Power Macs ever become surplus perhaps the TML <BR>
should sort out getting one to Rob Prior to upgrade him from an LC3 <BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 17:46:59 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Minor race census<BR>
<BR>
Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi> writes:<BR>
<BR>
>Daniel Phelps wrote:<BR>
> > Does anyone use a human "variant race" acclimatized to zero g<BR>
> > such as Lois McMaster Bujold's "Quaddies"?<BR>
><BR>
>	I have been using Quaddies and Herms in roughly similar way<BR>
>	as they appeared in Bujold's books. That is, the Solomani<BR>
>	created Quaddies for zero-g environment before the Rule of Man,<BR>
>	at a time when artificial gravity was unavailable, unreliable<BR>
>	or too expensive. After artificial gravity become common,<BR>
>	normal humans could perform those tasks for which Quaddies were<BR>
>	specialized, and in a way the Quaddies become obsolete.<BR>
><BR>
>	In my Traveller campaign, a few Quaddie "tribes" live as<BR>
>	belters in Solomani Rim, but most people do no know that they<BR>
>	even exists.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Blue Planet v2 has geneered 'spacers'. Basically, double jointed <BR>
humans with prehensile feet with an opposable grip, plus other body <BR>
mods for zero-G adaption.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 17:49:22 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: OT: RE: Quotation Source on When you should be bringing your gun?<BR>
<BR>
At 7:51 -0400 28/8/00, "Moody, Danny M." <Danny.Moody@bridge.com> wrote:<BR>
> > Note it's not Christian Slater's quote from True<BR>
> > Romance, " I found out today that it's better to have<BR>
> > a gun and not need it, then to need a gun and not have<BR>
> > one."<BR>
>Isn't this from _Heathers_?<BR>
><BR>
>"I put a Norwegian in the boiler room!"<BR>
<BR>
As an aside - is the boiler room in _Gross Point Blank_ the same one <BR>
as in _Heathers_?<BR>
<BR>
If so, that school really had problems....<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 17:53:20 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Out of Touch.<BR>
<BR>
At 23:59 -0400 28/8/00, mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan <BR>
Robertson) wrote:<BR>
>Dom Mooney has requested that the TRAVELLER list be notified that his<BR>
>computer is out of action at the moment, and unlikely to be working before<BR>
>Tuesday.<BR>
><BR>
>If anyone desperately needs to speak with him before GenConUK, send me an<BR>
>e-mail offlist and I'll see what I can do.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks Mexal!<BR>
<BR>
I actually got my email back the day before GenCon UK (long story <BR>
involving an ICQ crash destroying Eudora, massive data losses in the <BR>
mailbox files, and then an accidental snapping of the RJ connector as <BR>
the Mac was moved). I'm back now and am trying to catch up as quick <BR>
as possible.<BR>
<BR>
If you think that I should have written back to you about something, <BR>
let me know as I may have lost the file message when my in-box <BR>
corrupted. I do have the response about 101 Villians though.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 17:57:14 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: En Garde Was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
<BR>
At 22:56 -0400 30/8/00, "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
> >> GDW was a game company for a while before they released<BR>
> >>  Traveller, in which time the folks there presumably acquired a good deal<BR>
>of<BR>
> >>  experience in game design and presentation.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >By the time Traveller came out, we had already produced an RPG -- An LTB<BR>
> >(Little Cream Book) called En Garde!<BR>
><BR>
>Then you guys did have a good deal of experience under your belt. :)<BR>
>I've always wanted to get a copy of En Garde!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
As far as I know you can still get it - Small Furry Creatures Press <BR>
reprinted it and sold a copy to me at GenCon UK 1999.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 17:18:44 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Changing a ship's registry<BR>
<BR>
On 09/03/00 at 08:46 PM,  Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
> If your players want<BR>
>to blow off their Imperial registry and remain foreign, the laws of the<BR>
>world they register on are the only ones they need worry about. Your 1%<BR>
>fee looks about right; another possible figure is a flat Cr100,000 fee<BR>
>(for salvage registration, from _Annic Nova_).<BR>
<BR>
In the PBEM I'm running in Reaver's Deep, the PC's have "come into<BR>
possession" of a ship.  They took it from the pirates that had<BR>
captured them.  <BR>
<BR>
Where they are, possession really is 9/10's of the law, but they<BR>
*are* going to have to deal with getting the ship reregistered, not<BR>
to mention explaining all the dead bodies they still have aboard.<BR>
<g> It's a good thing they are in the "former Reaver haven", open<BR>
port, independent, and very low law Drellesarr system where heavily<BR>
armed, shot up ships arriving with a different crew and dead bodies<BR>
isn't an uncommon occurrence. <g> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 15:30:48 -0700<BR>
From: "Brian Jenkins" <brianjenk@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: En Garde Was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
<BR>
Last I heard Marc still had some second editions also.  There are some on<BR>
here who have mentioned using en garde in conjunction with traveller.  If<BR>
you are interested in that you may want to check out some of the En Garde<BR>
PBeM games on the net.  A lot of rules have been modified and IMHO may be of<BR>
use.<BR>
<BR>
You can find a few through the En Garde webring at www.hijenks.com/egwebring<BR>
<BR>
Later,<BR>
Brian<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 9:57 AM<BR>
Subject: En Garde Was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 22:56 -0400 30/8/00, "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net> wrote:<BR>
> > >> GDW was a game company for a while before they released<BR>
> > >>  Traveller, in which time the folks there presumably acquired a good<BR>
deal<BR>
> >of<BR>
> > >>  experience in game design and presentation.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >By the time Traveller came out, we had already produced an RPG -- An<BR>
LTB<BR>
> > >(Little Cream Book) called En Garde!<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Then you guys did have a good deal of experience under your belt. :)<BR>
> >I've always wanted to get a copy of En Garde!<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> As far as I know you can still get it - Small Furry Creatures Press<BR>
> reprinted it and sold a copy to me at GenCon UK 1999.<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
><BR>
> ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
> "We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
> can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
> http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 09:34:26 +1000<BR>
From: "steven" <steven@terra-australis-mandes.com.au><BR>
Subject: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
THANK YOU Tsykoduk<BR>
.<BR>
But I am actuly intrested in the rating<BR>
shorly the blast would be far grater in reality? I wald love to see a HE<BR>
missle take out a city<BR>
steven.<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Tsykoduk <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 1:16 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> You get one roll on the radiation table, and one roll on the surface<BR>
> explosion table (with a DM of +6). Other then that, they are treated as<BR>
> normal missles.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of steven<BR>
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 8:48 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Just a quick question:<BR>
> what raiting are the NUKES on starships (missles) in relation to<BR>
> MegaTraveller<BR>
><BR>
> steven spizick<BR>
> (soon to be bombbarded by the bloody olmpics<BR>
> eg Sydney 2000 GOD HELP ME!!!!!)<BR>
> steven@terra-australis-mandes.com.au or<BR>
> spizick@ihug.com.au<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 23:33:46 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
<BR>
At 19:27 -0400 3/9/00, owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com <BR>
(Traveller-diges wrote:<BR>
>I was cruising Usenet rec.games.frp.misc and saw this: <A<BR>
>HREF="aol://5863:126/rec.games.frp.misc:281426">New Judges Guild & Pegasus<BR>
>Mag are they out of business?<BR>
>does this mean that we won't see the Traveller reprints?...:-(<BR>
<BR>
Why does the potential non-viability of Judges Guild impact FFE's reprints?<BR>
<BR>
Dom (curious)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"In the End I found beginnings, not a vision, a wake up call.<BR>
Raised from the dead by a beating heart and at last I can<BR>
   see it all. And my eyes were opened to the darkness.."<BR>
                   Fish /Raingods with Zippos/<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 19:49:27 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/4/00 10:57:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
dom@cybergoths.u-net.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Why does the potential non-viability of Judges Guild impact FFE's <BR>
reprints? >><BR>
<BR>
not those; I was under the impression that Judges Guild was going to reprint <BR>
some of THEIR Traveller stuff...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 20:07:53 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
<BR>
> << Why does the potential non-viability of Judges Guild impact FFE's<BR>
> reprints? >><BR>
><BR>
By the way, I haven't heard anything to actually support this rumour aside<BR>
from a poor update rate on their website.<BR>
<BR>
As a game publisher I can tell you that the other members of the Game<BR>
Publisher's Association feel a lot of aggravation as one of their main<BR>
problems is the stubborn insistence on the part of many distributors that<BR>
they don't exist. Please try not to start discussions like this or you could<BR>
end up with them fine and unable to sell the reprints.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 17:32:03 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
on 9/4/00 9:42 AM, SD Mooney at dom@cybergoths.u-net.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 7:51 -0400 28/8/00, "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net> wrote:<BR>
>> I  have about 12 spare Power Macs that I can test it with :)<BR>
>> Damn things are pretty much paperweights in my classroom.<BR>
> <BR>
> I doubt (having seen the resource demands of H&E on an NT 4 system)<BR>
> that it's going to run happily on an SE30... :-/<BR>
> <BR>
> As a thought, if those Power Macs ever become surplus perhaps the TML<BR>
> should sort out getting one to Rob Prior to upgrade him from an LC3<BR>
> ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Are there any issues with US macs in the UK?  If not, I'm sure I can get him<BR>
something much better than an LCIII.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 19:40:13 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> on 9/4/00 9:42 AM, SD Mooney at dom@cybergoths.u-net.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > As a thought, if those Power Macs ever become surplus perhaps the TML<BR>
> > should sort out getting one to Rob Prior to upgrade him from an LC3<BR>
> > ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> Are there any issues with US macs in the UK?  If not, I'm sure I can get him<BR>
> something much better than an LCIII.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, Rob Prior is a Canadian.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 18:26:50 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
IMHO the nukes that they mount on turrets are not city-killers - perhaps a<BR>
few Kilotons total, but not a Megaton city-killer.<BR>
<BR>
Also remember that a portion (and a great portion IIRC) of the _physical_<BR>
damage from a nuke on a planetary surface is from the shock wave traveling<BR>
thru the atmosphere. In space, there is no atmosphere, so no shockwave.<BR>
However, the hard radiation would be more effective, due to less stuff to<BR>
travel thru to get to the target (again, no atmosphere).<BR>
<BR>
A megaton city killer, detonating on the surface of a starship, would<BR>
probably just destroy it out right. Detonating near a starship, well, that<BR>
depends on the distance to the device from the target and a host of other<BR>
variables.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of steven<BR>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 4:34 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY<BR>
THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
THANK YOU Tsykoduk<BR>
.<BR>
But I am actuly intrested in the rating<BR>
shorly the blast would be far grater in reality? I wald love to see a HE<BR>
missle take out a city<BR>
steven.<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Tsykoduk <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 1:16 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> You get one roll on the radiation table, and one roll on the surface<BR>
> explosion table (with a DM of +6). Other then that, they are treated as<BR>
> normal missles.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of steven<BR>
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 8:48 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Just a quick question:<BR>
> what raiting are the NUKES on starships (missles) in relation to<BR>
> MegaTraveller<BR>
><BR>
> steven spizick<BR>
> (soon to be bombbarded by the bloody olmpics<BR>
> eg Sydney 2000 GOD HELP ME!!!!!)<BR>
> steven@terra-australis-mandes.com.au or<BR>
> spizick@ihug.com.au<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 20:21:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 7:51 -0400 28/8/00, "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net> wrote:<BR>
>>I  have about 12 spare Power Macs that I can test it with :)<BR>
>>Damn things are pretty much paperweights in my classroom.<BR>
><BR>
> I doubt (having seen the resource demands of H&E on an NT 4 system) <BR>
> that it's going to run happily on an SE30... :-/<BR>
<BR>
Depends on the SE30 system. One with the wimpy, *slow* 40 meg HDs that<BR>
seem to have been standard, no. One with a 2 gig drive and maxed out<BR>
RAM will be a *very* different creature.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, with what an SE30 costs these days, you can just dedicate one<BR>
to running the program and network it to the system you use for "more<BR>
important" stuff. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:58:04 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: En Garde Was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney wrote: <BR>
> >I've always wanted to get a copy of En Garde!<BR>
> <BR>
> As far as I know you can still get it - Small Furry Creatures Press <BR>
> reprinted it and sold a copy to me at GenCon UK 1999.<BR>
<BR>
Heck, Marc Miller was still selling them last year. I bought two. <BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:32:18 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: En Garde Was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
<BR>
> Last I heard Marc still had some second editions also.  There are some on<BR>
> here who have mentioned using en garde in conjunction with traveller.  If<BR>
> you are interested in that you may want to check out some of the En Garde<BR>
> PBeM games on the net.  A lot of rules have been modified and IMHO may be<BR>
of<BR>
> use.<BR>
><BR>
> You can find a few through the En Garde webring at<BR>
www.hijenks.com/egwebring<BR>
><BR>
> Later,<BR>
> Brian<BR>
<BR>
Sounds intriguing.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 03:49:47 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> >So they want to change the ships registery to one of the <BR>
> >worlds on their regular route.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Just what is involved and how much would it cost? <BR>
<BR>
Why do they need to change the registry?<BR>
<BR>
If ships need to get annual maintenance at a registered Imperial<BR>
port 50% of the time then a 40 year old ship that has always<BR>
been serviced at Imperial ports should be able to be serviced<BR>
at non Imperial ports for the next 40 years before there is a problem.<BR>
<BR>
Even if the ship is brand new it can leave the Imperium for up<BR>
to two years before their is a problem.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 15:44:47 +0100<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
Guys,<BR>
<BR>
after two very fitful nights of sleep, and developing the mother of<BR>
all sore throats, I am now recovered enough to comment on my<BR>
visit to Gencon UK.<BR>
<BR>
Firstly, echoing the sentiments of other members, it was very good<BR>
to meet up with some familiar faces again, and put faces to familiar<BR>
names. From a Traveller perspective, I would say things were looking<BR>
very good, with a fair crowd of people involved on the two days I was<BR>
there (I know, what a lightweight!!!!) The Demo games and tournaments <BR>
were top notch, and congratulations must go to the referees of said<BR>
games who gave their time and efforts to showing gaming parasites like <BR>
me a good time.<BR>
<BR>
With more space than at Dudley (for ex), noise and disturbance was not <BR>
a factor and this was a major plus to me...<BR>
<BR>
The tournament adventures were well written, and well refereed, and special<BR>
appreciation must go out for the fun tournament on the sunday which <BR>
came 'hot off the presses' just in time for kick off. With a little bit of every<BR>
tv & film sci fi genre thorwn in and mixed up with plenty of Microsoft bashing<BR>
and Mr Lilley's typical wit for good measure, the outcome was remarakbly<BR>
top class, and was enjoyed by all (well, definitely by me anyway).<BR>
<BR>
The idea to kit out the Referees in those gorgeous black T-shirts was<BR>
out of the top drawer, and I for one just wished I had the confidence to<BR>
ref Traveller to such esteemed persons, purely to get my hands on one,<BR>
but alas, it was not to be. It seems like I'm going to be stuck playing<BR>
Admin assistants with dodgy pasts for some ime yet!<BR>
<BR>
My only downside was with RPGA in general, as some people that know<BR>
me understand all too well. lt did seem to me that Traveller was not given<BR>
the position it deserved, and too much emphasis was placed, particularly <BR>
when calling the roll for tournaments, on other games before ours.<BR>
The organisation of scoring cards was shoddy to say the least, which is<BR>
strange considering the importance such organisations seem to need to<BR>
place on this pointless exercise....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Again, many thanks to Andy, Dom & Co for their efforts, and to Matt B for<BR>
allowing me to sneak back to his hotel when faced with nowhere to stay for the<BR>
night (I say night, it was actually about 5am by the time I laid my head down)<BR>
although after my resounding defeat of Andy Lilley at Mag Blast, I would have<BR>
glady played again until breakfast. (7 pounds for breakfast!!!!!!!!! - seemed a bit<BR>
of a rip off for some pig & egg served up in a student place - talk about exploitation!)<BR>
<BR>
Can't wait until Hebden Bridge for my next installment of Traveller... Dom get the little<BR>
black books ready, and stuff RQ & Bushido!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3009<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3010</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/5/00 4:06:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
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</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest     Tuesday, September 5 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3010<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Shipping Date for CT Reprint - Volume 3?<BR>
Re: Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
Re: Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
Re: Geneered Spacers<BR>
Re: Shipping Date for CT Reprint - Volume 3?<BR>
Re: PowerMac Vs. NT<BR>
TML participation in Conquest<BR>
Vilani Ranks<BR>
Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
En Garde<BR>
to other Traveller webring ring masters<BR>
Win my novels<BR>
Rapira-D<BR>
Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
RE: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
[BITS] New Release out of the bag WAS Re: IRIS question<BR>
Re: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
Re: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 15:07:04 GMT<BR>
From: newbomb@home.com (The Right Reverend Newbomb Turk)<BR>
Subject: Shipping Date for CT Reprint - Volume 3?<BR>
<BR>
   Anyone know if the CT reprint Volume 3 (adventures) has shipped<BR>
yet?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 16:09 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <000001c01747$eab018e0$1578a8c0@w98uc1><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Hey it was a fun time. As recipient of one of the nifty black tees - all I <BR>
can say is "Thank you, Andy".<BR>
<BR>
The players seemed to like the scenarios... although one of them truly <BR>
puzzled the control room staff (who were entering in all the returns from <BR>
the scoresheets) by putting "Chirp click twitter gulp squeak" in the <BR>
comments box after playing 'First Contact' :-)<BR>
<BR>
The position of TRAVELLER at GenConUK has always been a little odd. Unlike <BR>
all other tournament scenarios, which pass through the RPGA system, <BR>
TRAVELLER is left to BITS to organise - both the scenarios and provision <BR>
of referees. And why not, BITS does a wonderful job! It would be nice if <BR>
more game systems had that kind of support; and doesn't constrain people <BR>
who want to write for them at all. (I sent the original idea for 'First <BR>
Contact' to the RPGA who said "We get our TRAVELLER from BITS, here's the <BR>
address, send the idea there..." so I pointed out I was a BITS member and <BR>
duly passed it on.)<BR>
<BR>
I'd be interested to hear, Derrick (better off-list, the rest of the TML <BR>
probably don't want to hear it!), just what you find wrong with the RPGA <BR>
scoresheets and how you think they could be improved. I have some thoughts <BR>
on the matter myself!<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 08:38:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In-Reply-To: <000001c01747$eab018e0$1578a8c0@w98uc1><BR>
> Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
><BR>
> Hey it was a fun time. As recipient of one of the nifty black tees - all I <BR>
> can say is "Thank you, Andy".<BR>
><BR>
> The players seemed to like the scenarios... although one of them truly <BR>
> puzzled the control room staff (who were entering in all the returns from <BR>
> the scoresheets) by putting "Chirp click twitter gulp squeak" in the <BR>
> comments box after playing 'First Contact' :-)<BR>
<BR>
But of *course. *Everyone* knows it's "Chirp click twitter squeak gulp"!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:10:36 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Geneered Spacers<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/5/00 7:48:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Re: Minor race census<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi> writes:<BR>
>  <BR>
>  >Daniel Phelps wrote:<BR>
>  > > Does anyone use a human "variant race" acclimatized to zero g<BR>
>  > > such as Lois McMaster Bujold's "Quaddies"?<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  >    I have been using Quaddies and Herms in roughly similar way<BR>
>  >    as they appeared in Bujold's books. That is, the Solomani<BR>
>  >    created Quaddies for zero-g environment before the Rule of Man,<BR>
>  >    at a time when artificial gravity was unavailable, unreliable<BR>
>  >    or too expensive. After artificial gravity become common,<BR>
>  >    normal humans could perform those tasks for which Quaddies were<BR>
>  >    specialized, and in a way the Quaddies become obsolete.<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  >    In my Traveller campaign, a few Quaddie "tribes" live as<BR>
>  >    belters in Solomani Rim, but most people do no know that they<BR>
>  >    even exists.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  <BR>
>  Blue Planet v2 has geneered 'spacers'. Basically, double jointed <BR>
>  humans with prehensile feet with an opposable grip, plus other body <BR>
>  mods for zero-G adaption.<BR>
<BR>
There was also a race written up for AR2 (Solomani & Aslan) that are a set of <BR>
spacefaring gypsies, I think a copy is still available.<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:12:18 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Shipping Date for CT Reprint - Volume 3?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/5/00 10:03:43 AM Central Daylight Time, newbomb@home.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
    Anyone know if the CT reprint Volume 3 (adventures) has shipped<BR>
 yet?<BR>
 <BR>
  >><BR>
It is at the printers. It will ship before October 15 (2000).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 16:17:19 GMT<BR>
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: PowerMac Vs. NT<BR>
<BR>
Apologies for not attributing quote, but never mind...<BR>
<BR>
<<SNIP>><BR>
> > I doubt (having seen the resource demands of H&E on an NT 4 system)<BR>
> > that it's going to run happily on an SE30... :-/<BR>
> ><BR>
<</SNIP>><BR>
<BR>
Oh good, another chance to listen to the 'Mac Vs PC/Micro$loth Windoze' <BR>
debate - as if I don't get enough of this at work #8-)<BR>
Seriously though,the number of times I have seen software running fine on <BR>
one machine and then like the proverbial dog on another (usually, but not <BR>
*always*, Windoze) is... well, the sort of number normally reserved for <BR>
discussing Mr W. Gates' bank balance...<BR>
(I've seen figures that suggest as much as 60+% of Windows-NT could be <BR>
removed with no loss of functionality but an increase in performance)<BR>
<BR>
Also, I know of somewhere with a copy of the GURPS:Traveller hardback, so if <BR>
anyone is desperate to get a copy they can email me offlist...  It's not <BR>
mine, it's still in shrinkwrap, and I'm only doing this 'cos I like your <BR>
dog.  (Or something)<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Rowse, jeffrowse@hotmail.com - part-time Desktop Support, full-time <BR>
fruitloop.<BR>
"I say what it occurs to me to say when I think I hear people say things.  <BR>
More I cannot say."<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
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http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 09:43:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: TML participation in Conquest<BR>
<BR>
A good TML contingent attended Conquest, a game convention held at the<BR>
Clarion Hotel in Millbrae, California, this weekend.  I was only there on<BR>
Sunday to play in Kristian Miller's almost live action role playing game<BR>
known as Star Trek: Another Twist of the Knife.  I'll let him describe the<BR>
mayhem, which he may already have done.  After Star Trek, I wandered<BR>
through the convention area and found Evyn MacDude and James Kundert<BR>
(Gypsycomet), who had just completed the GEV tournament.  They told me<BR>
that Jim Kelleher had been there earlier in the day, and that Evyn had<BR>
played Traveller with David Summers.<BR>
<BR>
So we had a bunch of people there, and it appears that we all had a good<BR>
time.  I certainly did.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 17:45:46 GMT<BR>
From: bill@phalanx1.demon.co.uk (Bill Hindley)<BR>
Subject: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
I noticed in Star Mercs there is a short sidebar on Vilani units and<BR>
their names. Unfortunateness no Vilani rank names were mentioned and<BR>
it would be likely that such a 'traditional' unit would not use<BR>
Solomani ranks.<BR>
Has anyone got a list of Vilani ranks ?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:43:52 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
<BR>
At 10:45 -0400 5/9/00, "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > << Why does the potential non-viability of Judges Guild impact FFE's<BR>
> > reprints? >><BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>As a game publisher I can tell you that the other members of the Game<BR>
>Publisher's Association feel a lot of aggravation as one of their main<BR>
>problems is the stubborn insistence on the part of many distributors that<BR>
>they don't exist. Please try not to start discussions like this or you could<BR>
>end up with them fine and unable to sell the reprints.<BR>
<BR>
*I* didn't start this discussion. I merely asked about someone else's <BR>
comments that this would impact the Traveller Reprints.<BR>
<BR>
And I'm not going to get started on the whole distribution issue.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"In the End I found beginnings, not a vision, a wake up call.<BR>
Raised from the dead by a beating heart and at last I can<BR>
   see it all. And my eyes were opened to the darkness.."<BR>
                   Fish /Raingods with Zippos/<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:45:25 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
At 10:45 -0400 5/9/00, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:<BR>
>on 9/4/00 9:42 AM, SD Mooney at dom@cybergoths.u-net.com wrote:<BR>
> > As a thought, if those Power Macs ever become surplus perhaps the TML<BR>
> > should sort out getting one to Rob Prior to upgrade him from an LC3<BR>
> > ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>Are there any issues with US macs in the UK?  If not, I'm sure I can get him<BR>
>something much better than an LCIII.<BR>
<BR>
To answer your question - none that I know of except the OS displays <BR>
the date backwards and spells everything wrong (like Colour as color).<BR>
<BR>
But Rob is in Canada...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:54:27 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
At 10:45 -0400 5/9/00, "Derrick Jones" <BR>
<dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com> wrote:<BR>
>The tournament adventures were well written, and well refereed, and special<BR>
>appreciation must go out for the fun tournament on the sunday which<BR>
>came 'hot off the presses' just in time for kick off. With a little <BR>
>bit of every<BR>
>tv & film sci fi genre thorwn in and mixed up with plenty of Microsoft bashing<BR>
>and Mr Lilley's typical wit for good measure, the outcome was remarakbly<BR>
>top class, and was enjoyed by all (well, definitely by me anyway).<BR>
<BR>
Part of the table I ran's experience involved doing a conga through <BR>
the room we were in (which prompted the D&D fun players to join in) <BR>
and then we went through another room with three or four other <BR>
tournaments just to show how much fun we were having (Exterminate! <BR>
Exterminate!).<BR>
<BR>
>The idea to kit out the Referees in those gorgeous black T-shirts was<BR>
>out of the top drawer, and I for one just wished I had the confidence to<BR>
>ref Traveller to such esteemed persons, purely to get my hands on one,<BR>
>but alas, it was not to be. It seems like I'm going to be stuck playing<BR>
>Admin assistants with dodgy pasts for some ime yet!<BR>
<BR>
Photos of the BITS Traveller T Shirts will be on the website soon. We <BR>
made 12 of these for the referees and stand people.<BR>
<BR>
T Shirt was Black with White print. Basically the front has a small <BR>
BITS logo, 'Referee' in Arial Black, on top of the classic 'line' and <BR>
Optima 'Traveller (R) Science Fiction Adventure in the Far Future'.<BR>
<BR>
The Back print was A3 (23 x 17?) with a Vertical BITS Demonstration <BR>
Team block on one edge, a bigger "Traveller....' Optima bit at the <BR>
top, then the original LBB front text, then a stylised Beowulf, then <BR>
the GURPS Reply.....<BR>
<BR>
They looked pretty cool...<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>Can't wait until Hebden Bridge for my next installment of <BR>
>Traveller... Dom get the little<BR>
>black books ready, and stuff RQ & Bushido!<BR>
<BR>
They'll be Big Black Books (T4.1), but I know what you mean...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 15:29:19 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/5/00 6:46:36 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
dom@cybergoths.u-net.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< *I* didn't start this discussion. I merely asked about someone else's <BR>
 comments that this would impact the Traveller Reprints. >><BR>
<BR>
I'm the guilty party, sorry...:-(. I just wanted to know what's up with JG, <BR>
as I wanted to buy their stuff...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 13:45:43 -0700 <BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: En Garde<BR>
<BR>
>Subject: RE: En Garde Was RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #2999<BR>
><BR>
>SD Mooney wrote: <BR>
>> >I've always wanted to get a copy of En Garde!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> As far as I know you can still get it - Small Furry Creatures Press <BR>
>> reprinted it and sold a copy to me at GenCon UK 1999.<BR>
><BR>
>Heck, Marc Miller was still selling them last year. I bought two. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	OK, let's make it blatant:<BR>
<BR>
	Marc, are copies of En Garde still available?  If so, how much do<BR>
they cost and where do we send the money?<BR>
	If not, does anyone _else_ have a copy that they are willing to sell<BR>
and if so, [insert standard financial information here]?<BR>
<BR>
	Sincerely,<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 16:53:15 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: to other Traveller webring ring masters<BR>
<BR>
Has any other web ring owners out there come to the rapid conclusion that <BR>
the new Yahoo interface sucks raw eggs on toast?<BR>
<BR>
Big mucking yuck!<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 23:12:40 +0100<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Win my novels<BR>
<BR>
You can now win upto three copies of ny novel Behind the Throne - one should<BR>
be enough, though - at the F&F website.<BR>
<BR>
Go look.<BR>
<BR>
Do it now.<BR>
<BR>
www.fiction-fantasy.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:38:56 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
Long suffering TMLers, prepare for another attack from...<BR>
<BR>
A-1 Armament Industries (the first name in the construction of<BR>
destruction) bringing you...<BR>
<BR>
The A-1  _Rapira-D_  Heavy Overwatch Grav-Tank <BR>
<BR>
The ultimate member of the Rapira family.  Featuring a more balanced<BR>
armor layout, and a more powerful main laser, with even better ability<BR>
to penetrate anti-laser aerosols.  We've ditched the coaxial tac missile<BR>
launcher (this thing is basically a hi-tech panzerjager; let someone <BR>
else shoot at soft targets -- or add your own external launch rails).<BR>
Endurance has been cut to 9.738 hours (much fuel use caused by main<BR>
laser fire; endurance will be greater in low threat environments).<BR>
<BR>
ERRATA: Increase the cost of all previous models of the Rapira by <BR>
Cr 2,900,000, due to a whoopsies on power plant cost calculation.  The<BR>
Rapira-D is priced correctly.  (I think...)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Rapira-D class Laser Grav Tank (TL-10)<BR>
<BR>
This vehicle has a crew of 4 (commander, 2 gunners, driver).  Its turret<BR>
mounts a 138.84 MW pulse laser in a frontal turret mount, with direct fire <BR>
control.  Three 2 cm autocannon are mounted in fixed mounts, one in each of <BR>
the forward, left, and right turret faces.  A point defense fire control <BR>
system controls these mounts, permitting one to be fired per turn.  Height: <BR>
1.5 m (+ turret 0.5m).  Width 11 m.  Length: 13 m.  Total volume: 132.275 <BR>
m^3.  Weight: 744.65 tons.  Cost: Cr 11,287,323.  Brother can you spare a<BR>
dime?  Price includes full ammo load.   This one can't float, neither.<BR>
<BR>
Movement:  Maximum speed: 120 kph/100 cm.  Cruise: 90 kph/75 cm.  <BR>
NOE: 30 kph/25 cm.  Above values assume 1 standard Earth gravity; <BR>
on Mongo (0.375G) speeds are Max: 720 kph/600 cm.  Cruise: 540 kph/<BR>
450 cm.  NOE: 140 kph/117 cm.  Vehicle has power to fire its laser & <BR>
move at max speed in the same phase.<BR>
<BR>
Movement effects on fire: no effect<BR>
<BR>
Armor: Crystaliron.  Turret front: 74.  Chassis front: 68.  Turret &<BR>
chassis sides, Turret rear: 47. Deck: 50.  Belly: 34.  Chassis rear: 42.  <BR>
<BR>
Target size DMs: +4 low, +2 high.<BR>
<BR>
Equipment: laser sensor (roll 6+), 100 power target acquisition radar,<BR>
5000 power radio, 10 power maser communicator, extensive ecm, 710<BR>
bottles prismatic anti-laser aerosol, thermal imaging, passive IR,<BR>
image enhancement, map box, battle computer, 5 power terrain following<BR>
radar.<BR>
<BR>
Weapons: The 138.84 MW single lens pulse laser may engage one target, <BR>
is spotted automatically, and has a hit DM of +0.  Its range and<BR>
penetration are:<BR>
<BR>
Effective               Long            Extreme<BR>
<BR>
300(85)         400(85)         550(85)<BR>
<BR>
The 2cm autocannon have point defense fire control and are intended<BR>
mainly to shield the vehicle itself from indirect fire.  They roll<BR>
6D in this roll.  KEAP ammunition only is provided for these weapons,<BR>
which have sufficient ammo for 8 bursts each.  They may engage 16<BR>
targets and have a signature of +1. <BR>
<BR>
Effective               Long            Extreme<BR>
<BR>
250(14) +6      350(12) +5      500(10) +2<BR>
    <BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
Design details:<BR>
<BR>
Hull: 13 m long, 11 m wide, 1.5 m high.  Hull volume = 214.5 m^3<BR>
Configuration: radical front, moderate sides & rear.  <BR>
    Available volume = 107.25 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Turret: 9.1 m long, 11 m wide, 0.5 m high.  Turret volume = 50.05 m^3<BR>
Configuration: radical front, moderate sides & rear.<BR>
    Available turret volume 25.025 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Hull Armor: Crystaliron.  Volume = 48.725675 m^3  Weight = 487.25675<BR>
    tons  Cost = Cr 438,531.08  Remaining volume = 58.524325 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Front = 47.625cm thick (AV 68), 7.858125 m^3<BR>
Sides = 10.3cm thick (AV 47), 4.017 m^3.<BR>
Rear = 6.67cm thick (AV 42), 1.10055 m^3 <BR>
Deck = 20cm thick (AV 50), 28.6 m^3.<BR>
Belly = 5cm thick (AV 34), 7.15 m^3.<BR>
<BR>
Turret Armor: Crystaliron  Volume = 5.9038 m^3.  Weight = 59.038<BR>
    tons  Cost = Cr 53,134.2  Remaining Volume =  m^3<BR>
<BR>
Front = 80cm thick (AV 74),  4.4 m^3.<BR>
Sides = 10.3cm thick (AV 47), 0.9373 m^3.<BR>
Rear = 10.3cm thick (AV 47), 0.5665 m^3.<BR>
<BR>
* = in hull<BR>
<BR>
Power Plant: Fusion, 36.97 m^3.  Output 221.82 MW.  147.88 tons.  <BR>
Cr 7,394,000.* <BR>
<BR>
Grav Generators: 16 m^3.  800 tons of thrust. need 80 MW  32 tons.*<BR>
    Cr 1,600,000.<BR>
<BR>
Fuel: 3240 liters of fuel for 9.738 hour endurance: 3.24 m^3, 0.2268 tons,*<BR>
    Cr 113.4  Power Plant consumes 332.73 liters per hour.<BR>
<BR>
Avionics: TL-10 Avionics, Volume = 0.3 m^3, Weight = 0.15 tons, Cr *<BR>
    12,000   Max NOE speed = 140/117.<BR>
<BR>
Electronics: Total volume = 0.4498 m^3  Cost = Cr 555,250   Weight = <BR>
    0.3793 tons* <BR>
<BR>
    5000 power radio<BR>
    10 power maser communicator<BR>
    100 power target acquisition radar (all-weather)<BR>
    map box<BR>
    battle computer<BR>
    extensive ECM<BR>
    thermal imaging<BR>
    image enhancement<BR>
    passive IR<BR>
    laser sensors -- TL-10<BR>
    100 cannisters prismatic anti-laser aerosol<BR>
    5 power terrain following radar<BR>
<BR>
There are another 610 prismatic anti-laser aerosols in the turret.<BR>
    0.61 m^3.  0.61 tons.  Cr 12,200<BR>
<BR>
Crew:   1 Driver, seated in hull,  Volume 1 m^3  Weight 0.2 tons  Cr100*<BR>
    1 Comnd., seated in tur.,  Volume 1 m^3  Weight 0.2 tons  Cr 100<BR>
    2 Gunrs., seated in tur.,  Volume 2 m^3  Weight 0.4 tons  Cr 200<BR>
<BR>
Environment:<BR>
    Hull, sealed with life support  Volume 0.5585243 m^3  Weight <BR>
    0.5585243 tons  Cr 1558.5243*<BR>
    Turret, sealed with lifesupport  Volume 1.5191212 m^3  Weight <BR>
    1.5191212 tons  Cr 3191.212<BR>
<BR>
Main Laser: one weapon station in turret front with 138.84 MW pulse laser.<BR>
<BR>
TL-10 single lens pulse laser<BR>
138.84 MW power input<BR>
Direct fire control:  Volume 0.06 m^3  Weight 0.06 tons  Cr 30,000<BR>
Batteries:  Weight  46.28 kg  Volume 0.04628 m^3  Cr 24,297<BR>
Laser:  Weight 9.16344 tons  Volume 9.16344 m^3  Cr 555,360<BR>
Output: 138.84 MW<BR>
Signature: +35<BR>
Firing Bonus: +0<BR>
Range (E/L/X): 3/4/5.5 km<BR>
Penetration (E/L/X): 85/85/85<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
2 cm autocannon: Total weight: 0.27 tons  Total volume: 0.27 m^3<BR>
    Total cost: Cr 15,000<BR>
    Ammo: 7680 rounds KEAP  Cr 12,288  Weight 3.072 tons<BR>
    Volume 3.072 m^3.  Sufficient for 8 phases of fire <BR>
    from each weapon.<BR>
    TL-10 point defense fire control: 0.6 tons.  0.6 m^3.  Cr<BR>
    300,000.  Rolls 6D vs. indirect fire.  <BR>
<BR>
2 cm double barrel, high-velocity, auto cannon w/electric action.<BR>
    TL-10  Weight 0.09 ton  Volume 0.09 m^3  Cr 5000<BR>
    ROF per phase = 320  Autofire bonus = +6/+5/+2  16 targets<BR>
    Signature +1  Range (E/L/X) 250/350/500<BR>
Fires KEAP rounds only:<BR>
    per round  0.4 kg  0.0004 m^3  Cr 1.6<BR>
    Pen. value (E/L/X) 14/12/10<BR>
    <BR>
Stabilization gear: <BR>
    Laser & missile launcher =  0.926972 tons  0.926972 m^3  Cr 70,000<BR>
    Three autocannon mounts = 0.087 tons  0.087 m^3  Cr 210,000 <BR>
<BR>
Waste Space in Hull: 0.006 m^3*<BR>
Waste Space in Turret: 0.00939 m^3 <BR>
<BR>
Ludowick <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 17:48:09 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
Bill Hindley wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I noticed in Star Mercs there is a short sidebar on Vilani units and<BR>
> their names. Unfortunateness no Vilani rank names were mentioned and<BR>
> it would be likely that such a 'traditional' unit would not use<BR>
> Solomani ranks.<BR>
> Has anyone got a list of Vilani ranks ?<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that Vilani ranks appear in GT: Ground Forces.  Unfortunately,<BR>
due to National Guard Annual Training (part 1), I was unable to<BR>
participate in the GT:GF playtest.  Doug Berry should be able to confirm<BR>
my suspicions.  (At least, I _hope_ he can; after all, he _wrote_ the<BR>
thing!).<BR>
<BR>
Doug's last word to the TML on GT:GF's release is that it's due in<BR>
October 2000.<BR>
<BR>
Excuse me while I scrounge through my sofa for loose change.... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 23:43:09 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
At 13:11 -0400 4/9/00, "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>BITS was well represented, with (eight or ten, I think) badged and<BR>
>be-teeshirted members helping to run things. Games of T4 and GURPS<BR>
>Traveller were run through the weekend, as were ACQ demos and games of the<BR>
>new version of Trav: Full  Thrust.<BR>
<BR>
Well, we actually gave out ten T Shirts beyond the two Andy and I <BR>
had. Probably we should have ordered more.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Far too many people got far too little sleep, MAG Blast was played by most,<BR>
>and I got killed first. It was great to meet a bunch of people off the list<BR>
>in real life, including Eammon, whose appearence in the last minutes of the<BR>
>Con really took me by surprise.<BR>
<BR>
Hey Nick! DtB is going to get you ;-)<BR>
<BR>
>And my spies report that the Silly Adventure was indeed very funny, which<BR>
>will probably be a relief to Dom and Andy.<BR>
<BR>
As background, the ending of the fun adventure was delayed in <BR>
arriving - the RPGA photocopier jammed, so Andy had to print the last <BR>
two pages, which arrived as I started the first nugget...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 23:41:13 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
  "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I think the most we had running simultaneously was 3 or 4 GT/T4 demos,<BR>
>and 1 each of ACQ and Full Thrust. Over the whole 4 days I think there<BR>
>were about 7 or 8 ACQ demo's [including at least one 'double blind'<BR>
>with 2 tables], 7 T:FT demo's, 9 GT/T4 demo games, and 8 Tournament<BR>
>games... 30+ games, by 11 referees [Andy, Dom, Nick Bradbeer, Dave,<BR>
>Richard, Roger, Nick Walker, Sam, Bradley, Megan, and myself], over 10<BR>
>slots  Quite a feat! My apologies if I missed any one off the list,<BR>
>though obviously with so much going on it was hard to keep track of<BR>
>who did what!<BR>
<BR>
We do have records, and when I get a moment I will post just how much <BR>
we did. I suspect that it was quite active though. Certainly we <BR>
peaked at 5 simultaneous demos several times.<BR>
<BR>
> > And my spies report that the Silly Adventure was indeed<BR>
> > very funny, which<BR>
> > will probably be a relief to Dom and Andy.<BR>
>It was indeed, though I often feel that such adventures are actually<BR>
>funnier to read or write rather than play...<BR>
<BR>
Playing can be fun with congas etc.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > Nick<BR>
> > Tired, and going to bed.<BR>
><BR>
>Ditto.<BR>
<BR>
Me too!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 23:45:30 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: [BITS] New Release out of the bag WAS Re: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> >From the latest BITS Publication "The Periodical Bibliography", I see<BR>
> that IRIS is mentioned in four places in the Index:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Okay, we admit it. GenCon Uk saw the official launch of 'The <BR>
Periodical Bibliography', Tim Collinson's latest tome. This lists <BR>
nearly every reference to Traveller in magazines and is in the same <BR>
style as 'the Traveller Bibliography'.<BR>
<BR>
At present, only 20 copies exist; once stock is built ( and copies <BR>
ordered by our US suppliers ) we will tell you more.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS, CORE and their respective logos are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:57:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
> But I am actuly intrested in the rating<BR>
> shorly the blast would be far grater in reality? I wald love to see a HE<BR>
> missle take out a city<BR>
<BR>
Well, a seven tonne slug of metal slamming into said city at terminal<BR>
velocity probably wouldn't even need to detonate to take out a sizeable<BR>
chunk of it, but I think that's not quite what you meant.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 00:07:25 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
Rapira D:<BR>
> Cost: Cr 11,287,323.  <BR>
<BR>
No no no, Trillion Credit Squadron is supposed to be played in *space*....<BR>
<BR>
<sigh><BR>
<BR>
#:-p<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3010<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3011</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 6 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3011<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
Re: Shipping Date for CT Reprint - Volume 3?<BR>
Re: [BITS] New Release out of the bag WAS Re: IRIS question<BR>
RE: Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
RE: Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
Traveller and Copyright (was: Re: Shipping Date for CT Reprint - Volume  3?)<BR>
Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
Re: Traveller and Copyright (was: Re: Shipping Date for CT Reprint - Volume  3?)<BR>
Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
OT: D&D3<BR>
Killing a System<BR>
Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
Re: D&D3<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
Re: Traveller and Copyright <BR>
TCS beta released<BR>
Re: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 15:54:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:45 -0400 5/9/00, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:<BR>
>>on 9/4/00 9:42 AM, SD Mooney at dom@cybergoths.u-net.com wrote:<BR>
>> > As a thought, if those Power Macs ever become surplus perhaps the TML<BR>
>> > should sort out getting one to Rob Prior to upgrade him from an LC3<BR>
>> > ;-)<BR>
>><BR>
>>Are there any issues with US macs in the UK?  If not, I'm sure I can get him<BR>
>>something much better than an LCIII.<BR>
><BR>
> To answer your question - none that I know of except the OS displays <BR>
> the date backwards and spells everything wrong (like Colour as color).<BR>
<BR>
Everyone should use the ISO standard for dates/times<BR>
<BR>
	2000-09-05 15:52:31.5....<BR>
<BR>
As for spelling...<BR>
<BR>
	Cxu vi parolas Esperanto?<BR>
<BR>
(The "Cx" should be "C" with a "^" over it...)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 01:16:21 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> Everyone should use the ISO standard for dates/times<BR>
> <BR>
>         2000-09-05 15:52:31.5....<BR>
<BR>
Yes! That's the way!<BR>
<BR>
Hey... with a bit of imagination this could be a pretty good US-bashing<BR>
thread...<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
(sorry, I will go lie down in a dark place now)<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:25:00 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
<BR>
> *I* didn't start this discussion. I merely asked about someone else's<BR>
> comments that this would impact the Traveller Reprints.<BR>
><BR>
Actually, I was responding to the thread, not laying blame or making<BR>
accusations. =)<BR>
<BR>
> And I'm not going to get started on the whole distribution issue.<BR>
><BR>
No but there is a danger and few people know about it so I thought maybe it<BR>
couldn't hurt to let them know.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 16:51:17<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
At 05:48 PM 9/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I suspect that Vilani ranks appear in GT: Ground Forces.  Unfortunately,<BR>
>due to National Guard Annual Training (part 1), I was unable to<BR>
>participate in the GT:GF playtest.  Doug Berry should be able to confirm<BR>
>my suspicions.  (At least, I _hope_ he can; after all, he _wrote_ the<BR>
>thing!).<BR>
<BR>
Alas,it didn't come up.  I do formaly name the Vilani Army as the Gisadia<BR>
Ziru Sirka, and the rank of Major General is Lurkugiishi, with the "ishi"<BR>
attached to the name for Division to indicate Commander of Divisons.  Draw<BR>
your own conclusions.  A company commader would be a Shuguusishi, for<BR>
example.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 00:39:33 GMT<BR>
From: newbomb@home.com (The Right Reverend Newbomb Turk)<BR>
Subject: Re: Shipping Date for CT Reprint - Volume 3?<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 5 Sep 2000 12:12:18 EDT, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>    Anyone know if the CT reprint Volume 3 (adventures) has shipped<BR>
> yet?<BR>
> <BR>
>  >><BR>
>It is at the printers. It will ship before October 15 (2000).<BR>
<BR>
Thanks! The other 2 Volumes are nicely done (I already have all of<BR>
those LBB's on hand) - just want to put them up to keep them from<BR>
getting further damaged... Looking forward to the later Volumes with<BR>
the JTAS stuff (which I do not have all of the items).<BR>
<BR>
*SIGH* - Now if someone would do the same thing with the old FASA and<BR>
Gamelord's  stuff....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:45:36 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [BITS] New Release out of the bag WAS Re: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
Gimme! gimme, gimme, gimme.  eh-hem.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry for the outburst.  Just hoping that the "powers" get the idea that<BR>
there will be a few sales to chase after here in the states :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -KrustyKollector<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "SD Mooney" <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
> Okay, we admit it. GenCon Uk saw the official launch of 'The<BR>
> Periodical Bibliography', Tim Collinson's latest tome. This lists<BR>
> nearly every reference to Traveller in magazines and is in the same<BR>
> style as 'the Traveller Bibliography'.<BR>
><BR>
> At present, only 20 copies exist; once stock is built ( and copies<BR>
> ordered by our US suppliers ) we will tell you more.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 01:23:43 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
<BR>
I always thought - and IMTU its true - that the Imperium used a single<BR>
standard registry that was administered by the various subsectors but<BR>
applied everywhere.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> Peter Newman<BR>
> Sent: 05 September 2000 12:50<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Far Trader Question - Changing a ship's registery<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote<BR>
><BR>
> > >So they want to change the ships registery to one of the<BR>
> > >worlds on their regular route.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Just what is involved and how much would it cost?<BR>
><BR>
> Why do they need to change the registry?<BR>
><BR>
> If ships need to get annual maintenance at a registered Imperial<BR>
> port 50% of the time then a 40 year old ship that has always<BR>
> been serviced at Imperial ports should be able to be serviced<BR>
> at non Imperial ports for the next 40 years before there is<BR>
> a problem.<BR>
><BR>
> Even if the ship is brand new it can leave the Imperium for up<BR>
> to two years before their is a problem.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 01:26:59 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
Hey there Megan - sorry to have missed you at GenCon and glad you had<BR>
a good time. We've really got to stop missing each other and meet up<BR>
again one day.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Megan<BR>
> Robertson<BR>
> Sent: 05 September 2000 16:09<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk<BR>
> Subject: Re: Re Gencon UK 2000<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> In-Reply-To: <000001c01747$eab018e0$1578a8c0@w98uc1><BR>
> Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
><BR>
> Hey it was a fun time. As recipient of one of the nifty<BR>
> black tees - all I<BR>
> can say is "Thank you, Andy".<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 20:15:29 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Traveller and Copyright (was: Re: Shipping Date for CT Reprint - Volume  3?)<BR>
<BR>
The Right Reverend Newbomb Turk wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips discussion of FFE's reprints of GDW's CT material>><BR>
> <BR>
> *SIGH* - Now if someone would do the same thing with the old FASA and<BR>
> Gamelord's  stuff....<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that Marc Miller doesn't automatically hold the rights to<BR>
Traveller material published by non-GDW companies prior to the untimely<BR>
demise of GDW.  That means that Traveller material published by DGP,<BR>
FASA, Paranoia Press, Judges Guild, and Gamelords (and any other<BR>
authorized Traveller publisher) belong to the current copyright holder. <BR>
IIRC, Roger Sanger <<spit>> owns the copyrights to both DGP and FASA<BR>
material.  Judges Guild, while apparently afloat again, has made no<BR>
recent announcement of republishing Traveller material (note that at<BR>
least some JG products are expressly non-canon).  I know nothing of the<BR>
copyright status of materials published by Paranoia Press, Gamelords, or<BR>
any other publisher that produced licensed Traveller material prior to<BR>
the release of GDW's copyrights to FFE.<BR>
<BR>
Note that Sanger's <<spit>> unusually high assessment of the value of<BR>
copyrights to DGP material has resulted in the decision of Steve Jackson<BR>
Games to "de-canonize" DGP material not reflected in actual GDW<BR>
publications (or any other materials covered by FFE's ownership of<BR>
Traveller material; SJG can only include in their canon material to<BR>
which they have rights).  Based on my occasional participation in GT<BR>
playtesting, information mentioned in Imperium Games' T4 materials is a<BR>
permitted reference for GT materials.  However, copyright issues<BR>
pertaining to specific T4 products are best addressed by Marc Miller<BR>
himself.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 20:16:52 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 05:48 PM 9/5/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I suspect that Vilani ranks appear in GT: Ground Forces.  Unfortunately,<BR>
> >due to National Guard Annual Training (part 1), I was unable to<BR>
> >participate in the GT:GF playtest.  Doug Berry should be able to confirm<BR>
> >my suspicions.  (At least, I _hope_ he can; after all, he _wrote_ the<BR>
> >thing!).<BR>
> <BR>
> Alas,it didn't come up.  I do formaly name the Vilani Army as the Gisadia<BR>
> Ziru Sirka, and the rank of Major General is Lurkugiishi, with the "ishi"<BR>
> attached to the name for Division to indicate Commander of Divisons.  Draw<BR>
> your own conclusions.  A company commader would be a Shuguusishi, for<BR>
> example.<BR>
<BR>
Why am I reminded of a couple of Russian rank titles?  "Polk" is the<BR>
Russian word for regiment.  "Polkovnik" is the Russian word for colonel<BR>
("regiment guy").  "Podpolkovnik" is the Russian word for lieutenant<BR>
colonel ("the guy under the regiment guy").<BR>
<BR>
If you gave Vilani terms for units of various sizes, then, given this<BR>
linguistic pattern, we can derive the rank titles for both commissioned<BR>
and (if you included terms for "squad" and [maybe] "fire team")<BR>
non-commissioned officers.  That's good enough for me!<BR>
<BR>
I would be interested in knowing if there is a Vilani prefix (or suffix,<BR>
for that matter) that indicates subordination.  Knowledge of such a<BR>
prefix/suffix would help fill in the spaces in Vilani rank structures.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 21:50:44 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Copyright (was: Re: Shipping Date for CT Reprint - Volume  3?)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "John Groth" <wombat@premier.net><BR>
> IIRC, Roger Sanger <<spit>> owns the copyrights to both DGP and FASA<BR>
<BR>
Don't forget Seeker :-(<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 21:10:27 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
"Samuel D. Weiss" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Levels are used for character development and growth. If anything, that<BR>
> should be noted as the one failure of CT. You generated a character and then<BR>
> never changed, you just added treasure.<BR>
<BR>
Failure, my eye!  Why should you get tremendously better at<BR>
any particular thing *after* you have left a career and while<BR>
you're getting older?  Traveller has experience systems, it just<BR>
doesn't dramatically increase your ability to do stuff as much<BR>
as D&D.  The average skill growth is slightly over 1 skill per<BR>
year.  Less than that in book 1, potentially much more in books<BR>
4 and 5.  T4 was intentionally set at an average of 1.25 skills<BR>
per year.  So in a 4 year period, you might acquire 5 skills.<BR>
But then age rolls start to factor in.<BR>
<BR>
It isn't a 'failure'.  It is a different design.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> HP are always arbitrary. In CT it is based exclusively on your initial<BR>
> ability rolls.<BR>
> CT armor makes you harder to hit as well so this is irrelevant in<BR>
> comparison.<BR>
> Overall, these is really only one difference and that is the level system.<BR>
<BR>
Is anyone getting better at combat in Traveller, simply because they<BR>
stole X amount of cash?  I don't think so. [Gold gives xp, improves<BR>
chance to hit].<BR>
<BR>
> Actually the concept of easily changing class has never really entered<BR>
> Traveller. The systems for switching careers during character generation<BR>
> were never really elegant.<BR>
> I won't argue the time frame however. But that was a mangement issue more<BR>
> than a design issue.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I think it is a design difference.  IIRC, MM wanted to discourage<BR>
multi-career characters.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 21:40:27 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 04:38 PM 9/1/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >sounds like Hasbro is trying to have its' cake and eat it too...ie; they<BR>
> >want to not only attract new blood, but keep the D+D grognards happy by not<BR>
> >changing it so much that they become alienated-<BR>
><BR>
> Having bought, and thouroughly enjoyed the new PHB, I can say that while<BR>
> WoTC wanted to make money on this (just like any business) the main drive<BR>
> was to produce a streamlined, good game to replace the ungodly mess of<BR>
> special rules and exemptions that had become AD&D2e.<BR>
><BR>
> They have not only held on to most of the grognards, and are attracting the<BR>
> new blood, but they are also luring back people who quite D&D in disgust<BR>
> after the seventh "Complete Boof of Foo" came out.<BR>
<BR>
WoTC has already scheduled the first D20 "Complete Book of Foo" supplement,<BR>
the "Hero Builder's Guidebook."  It purports to have (from the Amazon.com<BR>
listing):<BR>
<BR>
"The Hero Builder's Guidebook for the Third Edition Dungeons & Dragons(r)<BR>
game comes packed with 96 pages of *indispensable information* for the creation<BR>
of truly unique characters. Tons of tables, charts, and other tools are included<BR>
to<BR>
give players the widest possible range of play options available in the Third<BR>
Edition<BR>
D&D game. This is truly the stuff heroes are made of. " [emphasis added]<BR>
<BR>
There is also the forthcoming "Sword and Fist: A Builder's Guide for Fighters<BR>
and Monks."  From Amazon again:<BR>
<BR>
"The ultimate guide to customizing fighters and monks in the Third Edition<BR>
D&D game.  Sword and Fist is *required reading* for any player with a desire<BR>
to create a specific type of fighter or monk. The book contains paths of skills,<BR>
feats, and equipment characters need to master in order to possess desired<BR>
abilities-it starts with the end result and then offers a step-by-step guide to<BR>
achieve that character type. Dungeon Masters and players alike can also see<BR>
how these types of characters would impact a campaign world."  [emphasis<BR>
added]<BR>
<BR>
Also listed:   "The Psionics Handbook" (can you say 'Ego Whip'?),<BR>
<BR>
I think we've been down that road before.  Surely it will be followed by<BR>
a Spellcasters's Guidebook, then a Humanoid Guidebook, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Leaked material from the forthcoming DMG describes 'prestige' classes that a<BR>
regular class character can switch to after meeting certain pre-requisites.<BR>
Examples<BR>
are Dwarven Defenders, Arcane Archers, Anit-Paladins (called Blackguards),<BR>
Loremasters, and who knows what other monstrousities. At least there are<BR>
pre-requisites, which are otherwise almost totally lacking in the PHB.<BR>
<BR>
Can half-elven shadowblade ranger/mages be far behind?<BR>
<BR>
IMO, the PHB is designed to be a barebones sort of system that<BR>
has just the basics.  No real pre-requisites or limits on what players<BR>
can have their characters do.  Want a Barbarian/Wizard/Bard/Druid?<BR>
No problem.  Paladin with 8 Charisma?  Go right ahead.  Of course,<BR>
it means that DMs are going to have some extra work.  The chargen<BR>
systems in the PHB beg for a DM's guiding hand.  But since it appears<BR>
they're going to flood the market with all the add-on 'Foo' books, it is<BR>
sure to be chaos.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 23:01:50 -0400<BR>
From: Martyn Wheeler <pixie@interpath.com><BR>
Subject: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
Let's say you're an Imperial Navy Admiral.  Your fleet is far from home<BR>
but well equipped and supplied, and carriers a marine contingent.  You<BR>
can only hang around about a year, and have to deny a system to an enemy<BR>
for the foreseeable future.  You have a Darrian Special Arm unit and the<BR>
authority to use it, from both the Darrians and the Emperor (and the<BR>
Zhodani for that matter...).<BR>
<BR>
Political considerations are negligible.  Collateral damage should be<BR>
limited to effects that do not cause dramatic damage to the environment<BR>
or population of systems at 4 parsecs and beyond, although some<BR>
infrastructure damage is tolerable out to about 6 parsecs.  Systems at<BR>
less than 4 parsecs are expendable.<BR>
<BR>
The target system has to be unusable.  That in effect means the enemy<BR>
must not be able to refuel there.  That requires rendering the<BR>
water-bearing planets and gas giants (around both primary and secondary<BR>
stars) impossible for refuelling.  The denial of the system has to be<BR>
good for at least 50 years, preferably longer.<BR>
<BR>
The target system primary star is an F4 V; the secondary, occupying<BR>
orbit 12 of the primary, is an M6 D.<BR>
<BR>
The limit to hardness of science is that it should be plausible within<BR>
the context of the Traveller Universe, 1120 in a non-rebellion setting.<BR>
Handwaving should sound reasonable.<BR>
<BR>
What mostly comes to mind to me is firing a star trigger on one of the<BR>
stars, then firing it on the other star so that the pulses (EM or<BR>
matter) reinforce.  This could -- with luck -- do enough of an effect to<BR>
disrupt the whole system, couldn't it?<BR>
<BR>
Martyn<BR>
 ----pixie@interpath.com----Martyn Wheeler----DoD #293----1kspt=25-----<BR>
"Touch me with your soul, Bless me with your smile        / traci lords<BR>
 Give to me all your love, Baby watch me fly, watch me fly!"<BR>
   "High and wide open, reaching forever, I fly into the blue" -- Moby<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 23:34:09 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Confusion in the LBBs<BR>
<BR>
Steve Daniels wrote,<BR>
>Failure, my eye!  Why should you get tremendously better at<BR>
any particular thing *after* you have left a career and while<BR>
you're getting older?  <<BR>
<BR>
Well I'd like to think most game designers have gotten better at their new<BR>
professions after leaving their old careers and getting older.<BR>
:)<BR>
But that is too easy. Why do you think people doing something usually much<BR>
more active and intensive than the character generation careers should not<BR>
be getting a lot better with time?<BR>
<BR>
>It isn't a 'failure'.  It is a different design.<<BR>
<BR>
Which was actually my main point. I objected to the classification of the<BR>
D&D system as a failure and wanted to show it could be applied, unfairly, in<BR>
both directions.<BR>
<BR>
>Is anyone getting better at combat in Traveller, simply because they<BR>
stole X amount of cash?  I don't think so. [Gold gives xp, improves<BR>
chance to hit].<<BR>
<BR>
That got cut in 2nd ed. and isn't back in 3E fortunately.<BR>
However, an argument can be made that you do get better in Traveller with<BR>
extra money. You can but better computer programs for your ship, or better<BR>
personal weapons and accessories.<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, I think it is a design difference.  IIRC, MM wanted to discourage<BR>
multi-career characters.<<BR>
<BR>
*shrug*<BR>
And the 3E people decided to encourage it.<BR>
<BR>
As it stands, I have no desire to engage in a contest of who's favorite<BR>
system has the most holes in it. I like both for what they do and was merely<BR>
trying to make a point that some arguments can be made against any system<BR>
based on your point of view.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 23:39:01 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Steve Daniels wrote,<BR>
>IMO, the PHB is designed to be a barebones sort of system that<BR>
has just the basics.  No real pre-requisites or limits on what players<BR>
can have their characters do.  Want a Barbarian/Wizard/Bard/Druid?<BR>
No problem.  Paladin with 8 Charisma?  Go right ahead.  Of course,<BR>
it means that DMs are going to have some extra work.  The chargen<BR>
systems in the PHB beg for a DM's guiding hand.  But since it appears<BR>
they're going to flood the market with all the add-on 'Foo' books, it is<BR>
sure to be chaos.<<BR>
<BR>
Errrrrr....<BR>
They kept saying they wouldn't. I wonder what level that brilliant decision<BR>
came from?<BR>
They will really annoy a lot of people if they try that Complete Book of<BR>
Uselessness nonsense, myself among them.<BR>
Well, I don't have to worry if they kill themselves. I already know the<BR>
secrets I wanted to know and I don't have to worry about any silly extra<BR>
books until they send me copies for free.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:37:58 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> Everyone should use the ISO standard for dates/times<BR>
>> <BR>
>>         2000-09-05 15:52:31.5....<BR>
><BR>
> Yes! That's the way!<BR>
><BR>
> Hey... with a bit of imagination this could be a pretty good US-bashing<BR>
> thread...<BR>
><BR>
> ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Hey! We get it *half* right. 09-05 is standard US usage. It's just that<BR>
we add the year to the wrong end. The Brits have it *completely* backwards.<BR>
<BR>
> (sorry, I will go lie down in a dark place now)<BR>
<BR>
Nah, then you won't be able to see us cming. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:41:17 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> But I am actuly intrested in the rating<BR>
>> shorly the blast would be far grater in reality? I wald love to see a HE<BR>
>> missle take out a city<BR>
><BR>
> Well, a seven tonne slug of metal slamming into said city at terminal<BR>
> velocity probably wouldn't even need to detonate to take out a sizeable<BR>
> chunk of it, but I think that's not quite what you meant.<BR>
<BR>
"terminal velocity" isn't a useful concept for that sort of object. Not<BR>
unless you are tossing it at Venus or a gas giant.<BR>
<BR>
At 3 km/s, it'll release (roughly) the energy of 7 tonnes of TNT. At 6,<BR>
it'll be 28 tonnes. At 9, 63 tonnes. At 12 ( a bit above escape<BR>
velocity), 112 tonnes. At 42 (a bit above *solar* escape velocity,<BR>
IIRC) it'd release 1.372 kilotons.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:53:20 -0700<BR>
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Copyright <BR>
<BR>
John Groth <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
> IIRC, Roger Sanger <<spit>> owns the copyrights to both DGP and FASA<BR>
> material.<BR>
<BR>
ARRGH!  That's the worst news I've heard all day!  I knew he had the DGP<BR>
stuff but I had no idea that Roger Sanger-may-his-name-be-cursed had the<BR>
rights to the FASA stuff too.  Somebody, Please, tell me he doesn't own the<BR>
rights to the Gamelords books.<BR>
<BR>
Feeling stupider than ever for having not scooped that stuff up a few years<BR>
back when it was still relatively widely available,<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
P.S.  Since I now realize there's no way we're ever gonna see a reprint,<BR>
anyone have any FASA Traveller books they're willing to sell me real cheap?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 17:50:52 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: TCS beta released<BR>
<BR>
Well my brave and gallant beta testers have not reported any system <BR>
crashes and I'm now willing to risk a general beta release (actually given <BR>
the previous problem I can't see any way around widespread testing). So I <BR>
take very tentative pleasure in announcing the general beta release of the <BR>
TCS designer to go with my HG ship designer.<BR>
<BR>
The program requires a very large warning. The early beta's had a serious <BR>
stability issue and occassionally caused system crashes. This problem <BR>
appears to have been solved, but as a precaution I would strongly suggest <BR>
not running this while anything "valuable" is open (or on work machines).<BR>
<BR>
The program requires a Pentium 120 with 32Mb RAM running Windows <BR>
9x/NT (this is the lowest spec system so far, if you get it to run on less, <BR>
please let me know).<BR>
<BR>
The program can be downloaded from<BR>
<BR>
  <http://www.downport.com/amv/hgs/hgs.html><BR>
<BR>
Bug reports, suggestions for improvements and general comments can be <BR>
emailed to <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 17:01:11 +1000<BR>
From: "steven" <steven@terra-australis-mandes.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
Hay why not just use megaton city killers in starship combat then.<BR>
you would notneed to worry about them shooting back!!!!!<BR>
Unless you are a pirate........<BR>
<BR>
steven spizick......<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Tsykoduk <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 11:26 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY<BR>
THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> IMHO the nukes that they mount on turrets are not city-killers - perhaps a<BR>
> few Kilotons total, but not a Megaton city-killer.<BR>
><BR>
> Also remember that a portion (and a great portion IIRC) of the _physical_<BR>
> damage from a nuke on a planetary surface is from the shock wave traveling<BR>
> thru the atmosphere. In space, there is no atmosphere, so no shockwave.<BR>
> However, the hard radiation would be more effective, due to less stuff to<BR>
> travel thru to get to the target (again, no atmosphere).<BR>
><BR>
> A megaton city killer, detonating on the surface of a starship, would<BR>
> probably just destroy it out right. Detonating near a starship, well, that<BR>
> depends on the distance to the device from the target and a host of other<BR>
> variables.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of steven<BR>
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 4:34 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY<BR>
> THERMOS????<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> THANK YOU Tsykoduk<BR>
> .<BR>
> But I am actuly intrested in the rating<BR>
> shorly the blast would be far grater in reality? I wald love to see a HE<BR>
> missle take out a city<BR>
> steven.<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Tsykoduk <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 1:16 AM<BR>
> Subject: RE: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > You get one roll on the radiation table, and one roll on the surface<BR>
> > explosion table (with a DM of +6). Other then that, they are treated as<BR>
> > normal missles.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of steven<BR>
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 8:48 AM<BR>
> > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> > Subject: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Just a quick question:<BR>
> > what raiting are the NUKES on starships (missles) in relation to<BR>
> > MegaTraveller<BR>
> ><BR>
> > steven spizick<BR>
> > (soon to be bombbarded by the bloody olmpics<BR>
> > eg Sydney 2000 GOD HELP ME!!!!!)<BR>
> > steven@terra-australis-mandes.com.au or<BR>
> > spizick@ihug.com.au<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3011<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3012</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 6 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3012<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
Operation Order: Mongo Civil War<BR>
RE: [BITS] New Release out of the bag WAS Re: IRIS question<BR>
Terran Anagathics<BR>
RE: Geneered Spacers<BR>
Re: Killing a System<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
RE: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
RE: Traveller and Copyright <BR>
RE: Traveller and Copyright<BR>
RE: Geneered Spacers<BR>
RE: Traveller and Copyright<BR>
Re: En Garde<BR>
Re: Killing a System<BR>
CT cutlass question<BR>
Re: Killing a System<BR>
Re: IPs<BR>
RE: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
re: Rapira-D<BR>
Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
RE: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:06:59 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
On 5 Sep 00, at 20:16, John Groth wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I would be interested in knowing if there is a Vilani prefix (or suffix,<BR>
> for that matter) that indicates subordination.  Knowledge of such a<BR>
> prefix/suffix would help fill in the spaces in Vilani rank structures.<BR>
<BR>
When I wrote the sidebar in Star Mercs on Vilani units I used the prefix Di- <BR>
to mean Same as but only bigger and Ig- to mean Same as but as big as it <BR>
can be. Thus a Dikadigar (section) is a big squad (Kadigar) and an <BR>
Igkadigar (platoon) is the biggest squad you can get (meaning that it is the <BR>
biggest unit you could ever expect to be commanded by an NCO). When I <BR>
wrote a sidebar on the Vilani navy for the aborted GT Imperial Navy, I <BR>
extended this to Ka- (Same as only smaller) and Nuu- (Same as but as <BR>
small as it can get).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 23:45:32 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Operation Order: Mongo Civil War<BR>
<BR>
SITUATION:<BR>
Mongo rebels, having received information about the whereabouts of<BR>
Ming's hideout, have sent mercenary reconnaissance units to locate<BR>
Loyalist military units. Loyalist forces are expected to give stiff<BR>
resistance.<BR>
<BR>
MISSION:<BR>
Rebel forces will attempt to spot all Loyalist forces around Ming's<BR>
secret base.<BR>
Loyalist forces must eliminate Rebel reconnaissance units.<BR>
<BR>
ENEMY:<BR>
Loyalist Reinforced Infantry Company (Conscript)<BR>
	+ Loyalist Grav Tank Platoon (Long Service)<BR>
Loyalist Secret Police Platoon (Picked)<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------<BR>
Rebel hired Mercenary Armored Cavalry Troop (Long Service)<BR>
<BR>
SUPPLY:<BR>
Units with support units represented on the table, or in base, are at<BR>
100% supply; units with off table support units represented are at 75%<BR>
supply; units with no miniature representation of support units are at<BR>
50% supply.<BR>
<BR>
COMMAND & CONTROL:<BR>
Due to strong air defense possessed by both sides, no unit may fly in<BR>
high mode.<BR>
Loyalist forces start within 50 cm of base (in 100% supply).<BR>
Rebel forces start within 10 cm of short end of table opposite base.<BR>
Radio silence is not in effect.<BR>
Attack will start NLT 11:30Z, 30 September 2000<BR>
CommandInterWeb requests should be directed to:<BR>
travellerne@3rd-imperium.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 08:05:42 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [BITS] New Release out of the bag WAS Re: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
Dom Wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Okay, we admit it. GenCon Uk saw the official launch of 'The <BR>
> Periodical Bibliography', Tim Collinson's latest tome. This lists <BR>
> nearly every reference to Traveller in magazines and is in the same <BR>
> style as 'the Traveller Bibliography'.<BR>
> <BR>
> At present, only 20 copies exist; once stock is built ( and copies <BR>
> ordered by our US suppliers ) we will tell you more.<BR>
<BR>
Cool. Any word yet from Werehorse 23? I know they're usually pretty keen on<BR>
BITS stuff.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 02:20:48 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
"Scientists Find Drugs Can Double Worms Life Span"<BR>
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/worm000905.html<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 08:36:17 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Geneered Spacers<BR>
<BR>
> >  <BR>
> >  Blue Planet v2 has geneered 'spacers'. Basically, double jointed <BR>
> >  humans with prehensile feet with an opposable grip, plus <BR>
> other body <BR>
> >  mods for zero-G adaption.<BR>
> <BR>
> There was also a race written up for AR2 (Solomani & Aslan) <BR>
> that are a set of <BR>
> spacefaring gypsies, I think a copy is still available.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Why try to create humans with prehensile feet when you can just Uplift<BR>
chimpanzees? The Solomani did it with the dolphins, and were rather more<BR>
successful than Brinn's Terragens, so we know they've got the technology.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:21 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <39B5B39E.6F371C72@interpath.com><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Best method is to contrive to get 2 suns to collide, or maybe send <BR>
something Jupiter-plus size crashing into the sun. Nice stellar collapse, <BR>
hard radiation everywhere & if you're really, really lucky you get to <BR>
create a pulsar which sweeps the entire solar system about twice a second <BR>
with some really unfriendly radiation....<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:21 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <39B5AE9B.786EA131@portcaddo.com><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Bloo's comment about a bare-bones system is correct. The intention is that <BR>
all you actually *REQUIRE* to play 3rd Edn. D&D is the PHB/DMG... and <BR>
monster book if you want monsters. Other things are add-ons which can be <BR>
taken or left depending on the campaign the DM & players want. It's a <BR>
deliberately modular structure... and, for example, ALL psionic info will <BR>
be in ONE 'Book of Psionics', not scattered through several. If you don't <BR>
want psionics, don't get it: if you do you only require the one book.<BR>
<BR>
As for settings, Greyhawk is the default. That will be used for 'exemplar' <BR>
material in any book. But of course if you want to use something else, <BR>
fine. The intention is not to have half-a-dozen or more major campaign <BR>
worlds; and the 'control' of several has or will be passed over to leading <BR>
fan websites who will be supported in the development of material.<BR>
<BR>
Or at least... this is the 'party line' from the WotC D&D Development <BR>
Team :-)<BR>
<BR>
We'll see....<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:25:48 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> >> Everyone should use the ISO standard for dates/times<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >>         2000-09-05 15:52:31.5....<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Yes! That's the way!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Hey... with a bit of imagination this could be a pretty <BR>
> good US-bashing<BR>
> > thread...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> Hey! We get it *half* right. 09-05 is standard US usage. It's <BR>
> just that<BR>
> we add the year to the wrong end. The Brits have it <BR>
> *completely* backwards.<BR>
<BR>
(/tongue-in-cheek nationalist rant/)<BR>
Backwards? Uh-uh. Consistant. dd-mm-yyyy or yyyy-mm-dd. But month, day,<BR>
year? That's just stupid!<BR>
Over here in the UK a billion is a million million, as it should be. British<BR>
Billionaires are REAL Billionaires, not paltry multi-millionaires with<BR>
delusions of wealth. A tonne is an Imperial measure and as such is 2200 lbs.<BR>
Metric ton? Pah! I spit on your metricised units of measurement! Bring back<BR>
old measurements, like the chain, the rod etc! Scrap the metre! The yard is<BR>
good enough for anyone! Kilograms? European Witchcraft, that's what Kilos<BR>
are! Bring back hanging! Floggings for school boys! Vote Tory (or Labour,<BR>
same thing)!<BR>
<BR>
(\tongue-in-cheek nationalist rant\)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
Note: The opinions and views expressed above are not those of anyone with<BR>
even half an ounce (or the metric equivalent) of functional neural tissue in<BR>
their skull. Your universe may vary.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:34:53 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller and Copyright <BR>
<BR>
> Feeling stupider than ever for having not scooped that stuff <BR>
> up a few years<BR>
> back when it was still relatively widely available,<BR>
> Trent<BR>
> <BR>
> P.S.  Since I now realize there's no way we're ever gonna see <BR>
> a reprint,<BR>
> anyone have any FASA Traveller books they're willing to sell <BR>
> me real cheap?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Try<BR>
http://www.titangames.com/<BR>
<BR>
Quincey and Janna are usually pretty good at getting stuff in, and they ship<BR>
quickly. Prices are fairly resonable.<BR>
Recommended.<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 22:05:22 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller and Copyright<BR>
<BR>
> http://www.titangames.com/<BR>
><BR>
> Quincey and Janna are usually pretty good at getting stuff in,<BR>
> and they ship quickly. Prices are fairly resonable.<BR>
<BR>
I'd have to disagree, prices are generally, other than some of his sale<BR>
stock, ridiculously high, especially the prices on damaged or poor quality<BR>
stock. I'd call the Tiatan GAmes prices the RPG equivalent of the comics<BR>
OverPrice, er, I mean OverStreet Guide.<BR>
<BR>
But I agree they're nice people to deal with, and I don't begrudge them<BR>
their profit, I know  what the economics of second-hand trading are like. If<BR>
they can sell at those prices then good on them I say.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 03:12:38 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Geneered Spacers<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<Why try to create humans with prehensile feet when you can just<BR>
Uplift<BR>
chimpanzees? The Solomani did it with the dolphins, and were rather <BR>
more successful than Brinn's Terragens, so we know they've got the <BR>
technology.>><BR>
<BR>
The Simians mentioned in Solomani and Aslan are geneered orangutans and<BR>
gibbons specifically designed with zero-G work in mind.<BR>
<BR>
I ran across the reference last night looking for the space gypsies<BR>
mentioned earlier.  Still can't find them ...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:14:11 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller and Copyright<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I'd have to disagree, prices are generally, other than some <BR>
> of his sale<BR>
> stock, ridiculously high, especially the prices on damaged or <BR>
> poor quality<BR>
> stock. I'd call the Tiatan GAmes prices the RPG equivalent of <BR>
> the comics<BR>
> OverPrice, er, I mean OverStreet Guide.<BR>
> <BR>
> But I agree they're nice people to deal with, and I don't <BR>
> begrudge them<BR>
> their profit, I know  what the economics of second-hand <BR>
> trading are like. If<BR>
> they can sell at those prices then good on them I say.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I guess my cash-radar must be screwed up by living in the UK. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 07:31:28 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: En Garde<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/5/00 3:49:18 PM Central Daylight Time, rgb@odetics.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
    OK, let's make it blatant:<BR>
 <BR>
    Marc, are copies of En Garde still available?  If so, how much do<BR>
 they cost and where do we send the money?<BR>
    If not, does anyone _else_ have a copy that they are willing to sell<BR>
 and if so, [insert standard financial information here]?<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Marc doesn't have any more. Small Furry Creatures Press might.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 03:05:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Let's say you're an Imperial Navy Admiral.  Your fleet is far from home<BR>
> but well equipped and supplied, and carriers a marine contingent.  You<BR>
> can only hang around about a year, and have to deny a system to an enemy<BR>
> for the foreseeable future.  You have a Darrian Special Arm unit and the<BR>
> authority to use it, from both the Darrians and the Emperor (and the<BR>
> Zhodani for that matter...).<BR>
><BR>
> Political considerations are negligible.  Collateral damage should be<BR>
> limited to effects that do not cause dramatic damage to the environment<BR>
> or population of systems at 4 parsecs and beyond, although some<BR>
> infrastructure damage is tolerable out to about 6 parsecs.  Systems at<BR>
> less than 4 parsecs are expendable.<BR>
><BR>
> The target system has to be unusable.  That in effect means the enemy<BR>
> must not be able to refuel there.  That requires rendering the<BR>
> water-bearing planets and gas giants (around both primary and secondary<BR>
> stars) impossible for refuelling.  The denial of the system has to be<BR>
> good for at least 50 years, preferably longer.<BR>
><BR>
> The target system primary star is an F4 V; the secondary, occupying<BR>
> orbit 12 of the primary, is an M6 D.<BR>
><BR>
> The limit to hardness of science is that it should be plausible within<BR>
> the context of the Traveller Universe, 1120 in a non-rebellion setting.<BR>
> Handwaving should sound reasonable.<BR>
><BR>
> What mostly comes to mind to me is firing a star trigger on one of the<BR>
> stars, then firing it on the other star so that the pulses (EM or<BR>
> matter) reinforce.  This could -- with luck -- do enough of an effect to<BR>
> disrupt the whole system, couldn't it?<BR>
<BR>
Nope. A Maghiz won't affect the *planets* noticably. It'll fry any<BR>
electronics in the system, and maybe for a ways outside. <BR>
<BR>
There's *nothing* short of a supernova that'll render a gas giant<BR>
"useless" for refueling. And besides being hard to induce <g>, it'll<BR>
have effects *far* beyond the system. 30 parsecs away, easy (though<BR>
it'll take 100 years to get that far).<BR>
<BR>
Even a nova (also hard to induce) won't make a gas giant useless.<BR>
You'd just have to approach carefully for the first year or so.<BR>
<BR>
And BTW, by "hard to induce", I mean something that Grandfather would<BR>
have trouble pulling off.<BR>
<BR>
Planets are *big*. If the Earth was 2 meters across, the Marianas trench<BR>
would only be about 1 mm deep. <BR>
<BR>
The energy required to boil off the hydrogen on the outer planets is<BR>
something you don't want to think about. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:25:06 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: CT cutlass question<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
I notice there is a difference in the rules for dammage inflicted by<BR>
weapons, in Book One CT.<BR>
Say for cutlas would that be 3D damage or would it be 2D Damage?<BR>
<BR>
Mike.<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 05:45:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
    I was just now thinking about this.  And, there might be a way to "kill"<BR>
a system with a gas giant.  If you set it up right you might be able to push<BR>
a brown dwarf/gas giant into becoming a star.  If you used a simultanius<sp><BR>
blast from several hundred to several thousand nuclear weapons to force a<BR>
brown dwarf/gas giant into becomin a star.  Now if it is close enough to<BR>
main world of a system, it could blast away the atmosphere and/or boil off<BR>
the oceans.  I know this idea is a bit exotic, but it might work & be well<BR>
within the limits of Imperial Technology.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 08:54:09 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: IPs<BR>
<BR>
John Groth <wombat@premier.net> Says:<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Note that Sanger's <<spit>> unusually high assessment of the value of<BR>
>  copyrights to DGP material has resulted in the decision of Steve Jackson<BR>
>  Games to "de-canonize" DGP material not reflected in actual GDW<BR>
>  publications <BR>
<BR>
Slight correction -- Marc has instructed me not to use any material that <BR>
would violate DGP's IP rights.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 06:54:30 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Nukes...???  MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
IMTU - that is what a bay weapon is - they do not fire tons of little<BR>
missles, rather one or two huge missles that carry lots of EW and a few big<BR>
warheads. Small ships getting smacked by a factor A or B missle tend to not<BR>
be able to put up much of a fight afterwords.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of steven<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 12:01 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY<BR>
THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hay why not just use megaton city killers in starship combat then.<BR>
you would notneed to worry about them shooting back!!!!!<BR>
Unless you are a pirate........<BR>
<BR>
steven spizick......<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Tsykoduk <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 11:26 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY<BR>
THERMOS????<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> IMHO the nukes that they mount on turrets are not city-killers - perhaps a<BR>
> few Kilotons total, but not a Megaton city-killer.<BR>
><BR>
> Also remember that a portion (and a great portion IIRC) of the _physical_<BR>
> damage from a nuke on a planetary surface is from the shock wave traveling<BR>
> thru the atmosphere. In space, there is no atmosphere, so no shockwave.<BR>
> However, the hard radiation would be more effective, due to less stuff to<BR>
> travel thru to get to the target (again, no atmosphere).<BR>
><BR>
> A megaton city killer, detonating on the surface of a starship, would<BR>
> probably just destroy it out right. Detonating near a starship, well, that<BR>
> depends on the distance to the device from the target and a host of other<BR>
> variables.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of steven<BR>
> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 4:34 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller-EG:WHAT TON RAITING ALSO ARE THEY<BR>
> THERMOS????<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> THANK YOU Tsykoduk<BR>
> .<BR>
> But I am actuly intrested in the rating<BR>
> shorly the blast would be far grater in reality? I wald love to see a HE<BR>
> missle take out a city<BR>
> steven.<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Tsykoduk <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2000 1:16 AM<BR>
> Subject: RE: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > You get one roll on the radiation table, and one roll on the surface<BR>
> > explosion table (with a DM of +6). Other then that, they are treated as<BR>
> > normal missles.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of steven<BR>
> > Sent: Monday, September 04, 2000 8:48 AM<BR>
> > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> > Subject: Nukes...??? MegaTraveller<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Just a quick question:<BR>
> > what raiting are the NUKES on starships (missles) in relation to<BR>
> > MegaTraveller<BR>
> ><BR>
> > steven spizick<BR>
> > (soon to be bombbarded by the bloody olmpics<BR>
> > eg Sydney 2000 GOD HELP ME!!!!!)<BR>
> > steven@terra-australis-mandes.com.au or<BR>
> > spizick@ihug.com.au<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 01:58:51 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
On 5 Sep 00, at 16:51, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Alas,it didn't come up.  I do formaly name the Vilani Army as the Gisadia Ziru<BR>
> Sirka, and the rank of Major General is Lurkugiishi, with the "ishi" attached<BR>
> to the name for Division to indicate Commander of Divisons.  Draw your own<BR>
> conclusions.  A company commader would be a Shuguusishi, for example. -- <BR>
<BR>
Okay, how about:<BR>
<BR>
  Field Marshall - Gisadiaishi<BR>
  General - Iglurkugiishi<BR>
  Lt General - Dilurkuiishi<BR>
  Maj General - Lurkuiishi<BR>
  Brig General - Kalurkuiishi<BR>
  Colonel - Erkaishi<BR>
  Lt Colonel - Kaerkaishi<BR>
  Major - Dishuugusishi<BR>
  Captain - Shuugusishi<BR>
  1st Lt - Kashuugusishi<BR>
  2nd Lt - Nuushuugusishi<BR>
  Sgt Maj - Igkadigarishi<BR>
  Staff Sgt - Dikadigarishi<BR>
  Sgt - Kadigarishi<BR>
  Cpl - Kakadigarishi<BR>
  Lance Cpl - Nuukadigarishi<BR>
  Private - Dagashii (lit. Warrior)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 22:12:36 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: re: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
> Long suffering TMLers, prepare for another attack from...<BR>
.....<BR>
> The A-1  _Rapira-D_  Heavy Overwatch Grav-Tank <BR>
<BR>
Duly filed.<BR>
<BR>
> ERRATA: Increase the cost of all previous models of the Rapira by <BR>
> Cr 2,900,000, due to a whoopsies on power plant cost calculation.  The<BR>
> Rapira-D is priced correctly.  (I think...)<BR>
<BR>
Snicker, chortle.  And here we were being snide about it being horribly<BR>
expensive.  :)<BR>
<BR>
I'm really going to have to get to work on my set of Grav Humvees (an<BR>
Air/Raft variant, obviously), Fast Attack Vehicles, and other "really<BR>
really common but usually ignored vehicle" designs.  I will also get my TL<BR>
10 Track Laying MBT going:  lots of bang for the buck, even though it's<BR>
notionally obselete.  I'm thinking of calling it an Assault Gun.<BR>
<BR>
The T2K Vehicle guides are full of funky and inspirational gizmoes.  I<BR>
bought the books in order to rip the vehicles off for TNE.  Clearly<BR>
converting them to Striker is harder, but loose renditions aren't too<BR>
difficult.<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Nick Bradbeer" <BR>
><BR>
> Rapira D:<BR>
> Cost: Cr 11,287,323.  <BR>
> <BR>
> No no no, Trillion Credit Squadron is supposed to be played in<BR>
*space*....<BR>
> <BR>
> <sigh><BR>
> <BR>
> #:-p<BR>
> <BR>
> Nick<BR>
<BR>
Count that one as a minor keyboard kill for me!<BR>
<BR>
But, when you think about it, there's no real reason why Trillion Credit<BR>
Army couldn't be played.  It's just Trillion Credit Grav Tank that's a<BR>
worry.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Of course, TCA would need some way of actually testing the designs on the<BR>
battlefield that could be done over the net.  That would require quite a<BR>
serious tweak of Striker, at the very least.<BR>
<BR>
Then again, who says that armies have to be tested on the battlefield?  I'm<BR>
sure that there were some in history that rarely if ever saw action off the<BR>
parade-ground.  Of course, they _might_ have a few issues if they ever get<BR>
to see action, but crappy armies seem to have been closer to the rule than<BR>
the exception in history.<BR>
<BR>
(Yes, go ahead:  pick on the sweeping generalisation...)<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 21:49:01 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
> From: John Groth <BR>
> If you gave Vilani terms for units of various sizes, then, given this<BR>
> linguistic pattern, we can derive the rank titles for both commissioned<BR>
> and (if you included terms for "squad" and [maybe] "fire team")<BR>
> non-commissioned officers.  That's good enough for me!<BR>
> <BR>
> I would be interested in knowing if there is a Vilani prefix (or suffix,<BR>
> for that matter) that indicates subordination.  Knowledge of such a<BR>
> prefix/suffix would help fill in the spaces in Vilani rank structures.<BR>
<BR>
This works for me.  <BR>
<BR>
What might also be fun might be to build in some of the tonal stuff:<BR>
<BR>
"How DARE you call me Eneri!":  ENeri E.  Iddukagan.<BR>
<BR>
This could work by some tones under certain conditions having an honorific<BR>
meaning.  That is, Eneri could mean "just some ordinary Eneri", while ENeri<BR>
could mean "Eneri-General".<BR>
<BR>
There is also weird cultural stuff:  what is the role of Cooks in the<BR>
Vilani military?<BR>
<BR>
Finally:  does MRE stand for Mortal Remains of Eneri?<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 07:28:26 -0700 <BR>
From: Cliff Linehan <clinehan@sfamipec.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 23:01:50 -0400 From: Martyn Wheeler<BR>
<pixie@interpath.com><BR>
><BR>
>Let's say you're an Imperial Navy Admiral.  Your fleet is far from home<BR>
>but well equipped and supplied, and carriers a marine contingent.  You<BR>
>can only hang around about a year, and have to deny a system to an enemy<BR>
>for the foreseeable future.  You have a Darrian Special Arm unit and the<BR>
>authority to use it, from both the Darrians and the Emperor (and the<BR>
>Zhodani for that matter...).<BR>
><BR>
>What mostly comes to mind to me is firing a star trigger on one of the<BR>
>stars, then firing it on the other star so that the pulses (EM or<BR>
>matter) reinforce.  This could -- with luck -- do enough of an effect to<BR>
>disrupt the whole system, couldn't it?<BR>
><BR>
>Martyn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Try a few of these buggers. It is safer and you can reclaim the system<BR>
later.<BR>
<BR>
System Defence Drone TL 15 "Watcher" Class<BR>
CraftID: Drone Type SDD, TL 15, MCr 4.151275<BR>
Hull: (1/2) Disp=.69 Config=1AF, Armor=40G, Unload=10.1926, Load=11.40739<BR>
Power: (2/2) 8.5236Mw Fusion, Dur=10/30<BR>
Loco: (2/2) StdGrav=79.8518, NOE=190, MaxAccel=6, Cruise=2835kph,<BR>
Top=3780kph<BR>
Commo: Radio=System*2, Maser=System, RadioJam=System<BR>
Sensors: EMM, P-EMS=Interstel, A-EMS=FarOrb, Densitom=250m, Neutrino=10kw,<BR>
EMS-JAM=FarOrb, ActiveAud, PassiveAud*10, Neural=Vlong, HoloRecorder,<BR>
ActObjScn=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PasObjScn=Rout, PasObjPin=Rout,<BR>
PasEngScn=Simp, PasEngPin=Rout, ActAudScn=Form, ActAudPin=Form,<BR>
PasAudScn=Form, PasAudPin=Form<BR>
Off: Internal Bomb Bay, Max=1t or 10 anti-ship missiles, Fixed Mt. Laser<BR>
Rifle Missile=x02 Batt 1<BR>
Def: DefDM=+2<BR>
Control: Robot Brain, Extensive ECM, Electronic Circuit Protect<BR>
Other: Fuel=3.068Kl, Fuel Scoops, ObjSize=Sm, EMlevel=None<BR>
UPP: xFx66x (Sufficient intelligence for non expert operation)<BR>
Skills: High Data, Full Command, Ship Tactics-4, Grav Vehicle-4, Gunnery-4,<BR>
Recon-4, Communication-4, Foward Observer-4, Navigation-2<BR>
Remarks: Used by Imperial Navy and Scout forces the 'Watcher' series is<BR>
usually deployed from an Air/Raft bay. Four 'Watcher's can be stored in a<BR>
bay. With its fuel scoops it can spend up to a year inside a gas giant's<BR>
atmosphere or submerged in an ocean before requiring maintenance. It can<BR>
operate autonomously or under direction by other forces in system using its<BR>
extensive communications and encryption software as well as its extensive<BR>
electronic counter measures to prevent it's being detected or reprogrammed<BR>
by enemy forces. The most frightening thing about the 'Watcher' is its<BR>
patience. It can be dropped into an enemy held gas giant and just sit there.<BR>
Its small size makes it extremely difficult to find, making a gas giant very<BR>
dangerous to refuel from. The drone will not attack until it has either a<BR>
clear advantage or a high value target in a bad position, like a battleship<BR>
in the act of fuel skimming.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
BTW: Not my design.<BR>
<BR>
Clifford Linehan<BR>
http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller<BR>
Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core route.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3012<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 6 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3013<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Killing a System<BR>
Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
[OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
Re: Copyrights<BR>
Re: Traveller and Copyright<BR>
Re: IPs<BR>
Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: Copyrights<BR>
Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Heaven and Earth<BR>
Re: Copyrights<BR>
Re: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
RE: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
Re: Rapira-D<BR>
Re: Rapira-D<BR>
RE: Geneered Spacers<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 01:48:27 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
System Denial:<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps some sort of von-neumann robot system...self-replicating factories on<BR>
the GG moons/belt system...producing semi-autonomous SDB systems or *serious*<BR>
minefields...(see Galaxy Quest for density values)...although 3I forces would<BR>
probably have probs with the semi-autonomous part...<BR>
<BR>
Tentative mine design would be a flat panel with two std .5dTon missiles<BR>
attached at each end. On the panel would be a passive array and solar array.<BR>
On the other side of the panel are batteries, computers and 2 or 3 lasercomm<BR>
units...the batteries have enough power to run the comm units long enough to<BR>
pass targeting to 2 or 3 other mines and so on...There would also be larger<BR>
active mines, active pulse at random interval passing targeting data to the<BR>
passives...<BR>
<BR>
Support systems would include small ships to place the mines and maintain them<BR>
<BR>
This is possible now...<BR>
http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/AASMIndex.html<BR>
<BR>
At TTL:13 to 15 the process would be quite doable....<BR>
<BR>
Comments?<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 07:40:18 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> "Scientists Find Drugs Can Double Worms Life Span"<BR>
> http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/worm000905.html<BR>
> <BR>
> bloo<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Well, these are the same worms, more or less, where they found that<BR>
castrating them also worked to extend the lifespan...What worries me (a<BR>
lot!) is that they're jumping right into human trials on the stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Followed no doubt, by the huge marketing campaign, early and rapid<BR>
approval by the FDA, incredible stock price rise of the company, and the<BR>
inevitable class-action suit, followed by the company's admission:"Oh,<BR>
oopsie! It also makes your liver explode sometimes <boom>, but we didn't<BR>
think that was relevant, and besides, it would hurt sales, so we<BR>
suppressed those findings..."<BR>
<BR>
What, me cynical about the pharmeceutical industry? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:55:38 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Bruce Johnson [mailto:johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU]<BR>
> Sent: 06 September 2000 15:40<BR>
> To: TML<BR>
> Subject: Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> This message uses a character set that is not supported by <BR>
> the Internet Service.  To view the original message content,  <BR>
> open the attached message. If the text doesn't display <BR>
> correctly, save the attachment to disk, and then open it <BR>
> using a viewer that can display the original character set. <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
For those of use who have MIME Support turned off, Bruce said:<BR>
 On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>=20<BR>
> "Scientists Find Drugs Can Double Worm=92s Life Span"<BR>
> http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/worm000905.html<BR>
>=20<BR>
> bloo<BR>
>=20<BR>
<BR>
Well, these are the same worms, more or less, where they found that<BR>
castrating them also worked to extend the lifespan...What worries me (a<BR>
lot!) is that they're jumping right into human trials on the stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Followed no doubt, by the huge marketing campaign, early and rapid<BR>
approval by the FDA, incredible stock price rise of the company, and the<BR>
inevitable class-action suit, followed by the company's admission:"Oh,<BR>
oopsie! It also makes your liver explode sometimes <boom>, but we didn't<BR>
think that was relevant, and besides, it would hurt sales, so we<BR>
suppressed those findings..."<BR>
<BR>
What, me cynical about the pharmeceutical industry? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:54:09 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
<Dean Jones><BR>
(/tongue-in-cheek nationalist rant/)<BR>
Backwards? Uh-uh. Consistant. dd-mm-yyyy or yyyy-mm-dd. But month, day,<BR>
year? That's just stupid!<BR>
</DJ><BR>
<BR>
Agreed!  I personally favor yyyy-mm-dd because it follows the standard<BR>
number system with largest units first.  You don't say "twenty, two<BR>
hundred, and five thousand", you say "five thousand, two hundred and<BR>
twenty".  You certainly don't say "two-hundred, twenty and five thousand."<BR>
Yeesh.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, it allows me to successively approximate the date, since I can<BR>
never remember "Okay, I know it's year 2000, right? Ya. And the month is<BR>
_probably_ September, and I think the day is about the 8th or so..." :-)<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 10:03:07 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <Dean Jones><BR>
> (/tongue-in-cheek nationalist rant/)<BR>
> Backwards? Uh-uh. Consistant. dd-mm-yyyy or yyyy-mm-dd. But month, day,<BR>
> year? That's just stupid!<BR>
> </DJ><BR>
> <BR>
> Agreed!  I personally favor yyyy-mm-dd because it follows the standard<BR>
> number system with largest units first.  You don't say "twenty, two<BR>
> hundred, and five thousand", you say "five thousand, two hundred and<BR>
> twenty".  You certainly don't say "two-hundred, twenty and five thousand."<BR>
> Yeesh.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
"September sixth, 2000" <BR>
<BR>
Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
"Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
<BR>
:-P<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 19:02:43 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin wrote:<BR>
> Agreed!  I personally favor yyyy-mm-dd because it follows the standard<BR>
> number system with largest units first.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed (but see below).<BR>
<BR>
> You don't say "twenty, two hundred, and five thousand"<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Visit Germany, Denmark, or some other country where they actually DO say<BR>
it that way. It becomes really confusing between Swedish and Danish,<BR>
since we understand each other's words, but not the meaning. This<BR>
becomes especially troublesome when money is concerned...<BR>
<BR>
Swedish:<BR>
<BR>
"One hundred one and twenty"  ->  101,20<BR>
<BR>
Danish: (and German)<BR>
<BR>
"One hundred one and twenty"  ->  121,00<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Port fees? Please have the exact change, or you will be<BR>
imprisoned.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 10:10:32 -0700<BR>
From: Jim Cooper <tloql@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
Hello Andrew,<BR>
     Just a note re this version. When I added backup computers, drives, etc.<BR>
the listing shows them as backup units but retains the primary units. For<BR>
instance, primary units are M-4, J-3, PP-4 with backups M-2 J-2. The ship's<BR>
card USP correctly identifies the primary 344 codes but lists the backups as<BR>
M-4,J-3 (same as primaries).  Primary and backup computers from avions section<BR>
listed properly on the ship's card.<BR>
    Other than that, I think it is an excellent program. Thank you.<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 10:10:15 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
How the *&*%@$# did that go out as a _mime_ ^%#$@ message???!!! I was<BR>
using _pine_ fer chrissake!!<BR>
<BR>
The only _plainer_ text way of doing it is to telnet into the bleeping<BR>
sendmail port and doing it all by hand!<BR>
<BR>
Sorry folks!<BR>
<BR>
Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> For those of use who have MIME Support turned off, Bruce said:<BR>
>  On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >=20<BR>
> > "Scientists Find Drugs Can Double Worm=92s Life Span"<BR>
> > http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/worm000905.html<BR>
> >=20<BR>
> > bloo<BR>
> >=20<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:14:04 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Copyrights<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/5/00 11:06:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Judges Guild, while apparently afloat again, has made no<BR>
>  recent announcement of republishing Traveller material (note that at<BR>
>  least some JG products are expressly non-canon).  I know nothing of the<BR>
>  copyright status of materials published by Paranoia Press, Gamelords, or<BR>
>  any other publisher that produced licensed Traveller material prior to<BR>
>  the release of GDW's copyrights to FFE.<BR>
<BR>
    Both Judges Guild and Keith Andrews (I.e. Marischal) had given me <BR>
permission to digitize their material and provide it on CD. Though the <BR>
revival of JG and the death of Keith might cause me to recheck on their <BR>
permissions (though I expect JG can't redo the Traveller material without a <BR>
new license from Marc and I don't expect any problems from William Keith).<BR>
    Attempts at getting hold of Paranoia press (one of them anyway, no <BR>
replies from the last email address I had) have failed to date though I know <BR>
he had plans on redoing them for publication via the Traveller Chronicles.<BR>
    Gamelords and Seeker (the presumed copyright holder of the FASA material) <BR>
I have no idea on how to contact at this point.<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
P.S. if anybody has any contact with old Traveller authors I wouldn't mind <BR>
their addresses (in whatever form).<BR>
    And of course if anybody has copious amounts of time to donate.....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:15:34 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller and Copyright<BR>
<BR>
Well the way I saw it was there a little expensive, having been going<BR>
through there gear just a few hours ago,.... though they do have those, hard<BR>
to find copies, of what you might be after.... Still having a wohole in my<BR>
collection as big as the crater that used to be in the park nearby our<BR>
house, when i was a kid, left over from the second world war, as a reminder<BR>
how close Rolls Royce came from being bombed. boy it nearly took all the<BR>
park away with it, though slowly filled up over time as we grew up as were<BR>
the feelings of war, left the local community. As will my book shelf, marked<BR>
Traveller, as time goes by : )<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 12:14 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller and Copyright<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
> > I'd have to disagree, prices are generally, other than some<BR>
> > of his sale<BR>
> > stock, ridiculously high, especially the prices on damaged or<BR>
> > poor quality<BR>
> > stock. I'd call the Tiatan GAmes prices the RPG equivalent of<BR>
> > the comics<BR>
> > OverPrice, er, I mean OverStreet Guide.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > But I agree they're nice people to deal with, and I don't<BR>
> > begrudge them<BR>
> > their profit, I know  what the economics of second-hand<BR>
> > trading are like. If<BR>
> > they can sell at those prices then good on them I say.<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> I guess my cash-radar must be screwed up by living in the UK. :)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 13:19:45 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: IPs<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/6/00 7:31:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Re: IPs<BR>
>  <BR>
>  John Groth <wombat@premier.net> Says:<BR>
>  >  <BR>
>  >  Note that Sanger's <<spit>> unusually high assessment of the value of<BR>
>  >  copyrights to DGP material has resulted in the decision of Steve Jackson<BR>
>  >  Games to "de-canonize" DGP material not reflected in actual GDW<BR>
>  >  publications <BR>
>  <BR>
>  Slight correction -- Marc has instructed me not to use any material that <BR>
>  would violate DGP's IP rights.<BR>
<BR>
    And one more. Most of the authors to date have tried not to contradict <BR>
any DGP canon were possible.<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 10:18:27<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
At 01:58 AM 9/7/2000 +1200, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Okay, how about:<BR>
<BR>
<snip> seems to work for me.  Of copurse, you would only see these ranks on<BR>
Vilani dominant worlds among their planetary defense forces.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:52:28 -0500<BR>
From: Joseph Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
D&D3 looks like a pen-and-paper version of Diablo 2 and similar computer<BR>
RPGs to me. The power levels in it seem to cater to the same crowd. Not that<BR>
this is a bad thing necessarily, but that's the impression it gave me.<BR>
<BR>
I thought the gratuitious name changes were a little annoying (for example,<BR>
priests now have spell domains instead of spheres), but it's not that bad.<BR>
My biggest complaint is that the successful completion of a task relies more<BR>
on the dice roll than skill for completing tasks -- but Traveller's 2d6+DMs<BR>
is guilty of the same.<BR>
<BR>
I just want to know why ghouls and ghasts have a Charisma of 16 (!). Telling<BR>
someone that they have a "ghoulish Charisma" shouldn't be a compliment,<BR>
methinks.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:52:48 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
> How the *&*%@$# did that go out as a _mime_ ^%#$@ message???!!! I was<BR>
> using _pine_ fer chrissake!!<BR>
> <BR>
> The only _plainer_ text way of doing it is to telnet into the bleeping<BR>
> sendmail port and doing it all by hand!<BR>
<BR>
Nah, /usr/lib/sendmail (or whereever you have it, maybe /usr/sbin/sendmail) <BR>
would be plainer text; so would /bin/mail, and probably /bin/Mail or /bin/mailx.<BR>
<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:57:46 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Joseph Dietrich writes:<BR>
<BR>
> I just want to know why ghouls and ghasts have a Charisma of 16 (!).<BR>
> Telling someone that they have a "ghoulish Charisma" shouldn't be a<BR>
> compliment, methinks.<BR>
<BR>
Mostly because charisma is now a horrible misnomer; it appears to basically <BR>
be 'presence'.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 12:59:53 -0500<BR>
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Copyrights<BR>
<BR>
Kagehira@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     Both Judges Guild and Keith Andrews (I.e. Marischal) had given me<BR>
> permission to digitize their material and provide it on CD. Though the<BR>
> revival of JG and the death of Keith might cause me to recheck on their<BR>
> permissions (though I expect JG can't redo the Traveller material without a<BR>
> new license from Marc and I don't expect any problems from William Keith).<BR>
>     Attempts at getting hold of Paranoia press (one of them anyway, no<BR>
> replies from the last email address I had) have failed to date though I know<BR>
> he had plans on redoing them for publication via the Traveller Chronicles.<BR>
>     Gamelords and Seeker (the presumed copyright holder of the FASA material)<BR>
> I have no idea on how to contact at this point.<BR>
 <BR>
Bryan,<BR>
<BR>
I thought Gamelords *was* the Keith Brothers. My impression was that<BR>
Marischal was the design side and Gamelords was the publishing side.  If<BR>
that is so, then contacting William Keith would be the way to go.  <BR>
<BR>
As for Seeker, I don't know. I have a vague recollection that Sanger<BR>
owned those copyrights, through his purchase of DGP, but I could be<BR>
misremembering or just plain wrong about that.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 19:05:51 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
<BR>
Howdy all,<BR>
    Stopping my FLGS in London, ON I discovered a venerable treasure trove <BR>
of DGP products and GDW.  If anyone is interested on the list contact off <BR>
the list.(kafka47@hotmail.com)  If more than one person is interested we <BR>
could start a little auction (increments of $1).<BR>
<BR>
    The covers show extensive shelf wear (although no rips or tears) but the <BR>
inside content seemed to be unblemished.<BR>
<BR>
  I will gladly accept a TRADE for any of these for the following items <BR>
which I don't have...<BR>
High Passage#1 (FASA) ; Adventure Ships Vol. 1 & 2 (FASA) ; Aslan Ships <BR>
(FASA) ; SGS Corporation Building Plans (Seeker) or Challenge#68<BR>
<BR>
Now for the items at hand:<BR>
<BR>
Grand Census(DGP): US$20.00<BR>
101 Vehicles(DGP): US$20.00<BR>
Alien Module 1 Vilani and Vargr(DGP): US$20.00<BR>
Alien Module 2 Aslan and Solomani(DGP): US$20.00<BR>
Assignment Vigilante(GDW): US$20.00<BR>
Hard Times(GDW): US$20.00<BR>
Rebellion Sourcebook(GDW): US$20.00<BR>
Imperial Encyopedia(GDW): US$20.00<BR>
NB: Prices do not include P&H<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:27:20 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
> yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
> "September sixth, 2000"<BR>
><BR>
> Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I'd say:<BR>
"It's September the sixth", but "On the sixth of September..." with some<BR>
random variation between the two.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
Designed for Confusion<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:32:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Heaven and Earth<BR>
<BR>
I finally got around to using H&E, and I'm having some problems. I wonder<BR>
if anyone around here can help me out....(he says, with a fair amount of<BR>
certainty.)<BR>
<BR>
H&E is far superior to Galactic in terms of detail that can be output for<BR>
each system. This is a Very Good Thing in terms of writing up background,<BR>
although a bad thing if you're as short on HD space as me (each system<BR>
seems to take up about a meg). On the flipside, Galactic is a lot easier to<BR>
navigate. That's perhaps not so important during a game, but when you're<BR>
trying to flick between worlds to work out how they interact it's a bummer.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
What I want to do is generate certain details for a bunch of worlds (about<BR>
two subsectors of worlds in the Strephon corner of Corridor sector), write<BR>
up the background for the area so it makes sense, then collapse the worlds<BR>
and see what I've got afterwards, which I'll then develop into a campaign<BR>
area (having gotten a little bored with the simplistic nature of the<BR>
Korinall Cluster, and given up on the campaign there).<BR>
<BR>
For each system I want UWP of each world, maps only of certain worlds of<BR>
interest (mainworld, hi-pop), climate details and population details. I<BR>
don't want to generate encounter tables, cargo plots etc, as I just don't<BR>
have forty megs of spare hard drive. Besides, on a P-233 it's running<BR>
pretty slowly already.<BR>
<BR>
Is this possible, and if so how should I go about it?<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
The weak, helpless and pathetic...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:31:30 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Copyrights<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/6/00 1:02:27 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
 I thought Gamelords *was* the Keith Brothers. My impression was that<BR>
 Marischal was the design side and Gamelords was the publishing side.  If<BR>
 that is so, then contacting William Keith would be the way to go.  <BR>
  >><BR>
Gamelords was originally run by Kerry Lloyd. Their material was acquired by <BR>
Tadashi Ehara, and I believe that it has reverted to me.<BR>
<BR>
Marc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:38:26 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
<BR>
> Rebellion Sourcebook(GDW): US$20.00<BR>
<BR>
At the risk of sounding dead smug, I picked that up for 1.50 (that's one<BR>
pound fifty, in case of dollar sign creep) at Gencon over the weekend.<BR>
(Okay, more reaslistically about 101.50 after figuring in convention<BR>
costs...)<BR>
<BR>
Ah, aren't conventions great?<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:12:50 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
> yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
> "September sixth, 2000"<BR>
><BR>
> Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
> "Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
<BR>
Nope, we say "Sixth of September, 2000"...<BR>
<BR>
I suppose it goes back to days of yore when people might have said "And Lo,<BR>
it came to pass, that on the sixth day of the seventh month of the two<BR>
thousanth year..." etc<BR>
<BR>
Toodle-pip!<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 21:57:34 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: Eamon Patrick Watters <E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK><BR>
Subject: RE: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
>Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Far too many people got far too little sleep, MAG Blast was<BR>
>> played by most, and I got killed first. It was great to meet a bunch of<BR>
>> people off the list in real life, including Eammon, whose appearance in<BR>
>> the last minutes of the Con really took me by surprise.<BR>
<BR>
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!<BR>
<BR>
>>Actually Eammon was there throughout, and played in a few Traveller<BR>
>>games, though he wasn't a 'fixture' at the BITS stand but rather a<BR>
>>general player who happens to be a BITS member.<BR>
<BR>
And nice games they were too. I was over from Belfast with a pal of mine,<BR>
so I couldn't hang around the BITS area as much as I wanted to :-(<BR>
<BR>
>I certainly echo the sentiments about putting faces and voices to<BR>
>names from the list.<BR>
<BR>
Ditto. Hopefully I'll have more free time next year. Hopefully the rest of<BR>
the BITS crew will be able to cope with two TNE Heritics given a year's<BR>
advance warning!<BR>
<BR>
Eamon <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 07:24:06 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
> Subject: re: Rapira-D<BR>
><BR>
> From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
> > Long suffering TMLers, prepare for another attack from...<BR>
> I'm really going to have to get to work on my set of Grav Humvees (an<BR>
> Air/Raft variant, obviously), Fast Attack Vehicles, and other "really<BR>
> really common but usually ignored vehicle" designs.  I will also get my TL<BR>
> 10 Track Laying MBT going:  lots of bang for the buck, even though it's<BR>
> notionally obselete.  I'm thinking of calling it an Assault Gun.<BR>
<BR>
I find that ACVs are the way to go at TL9 and up. You get the mobilty of<BR>
grav, and the cost of track.<BR>
<BR>
The 'twin power pack' concept on the Ming is an example of how to combine<BR>
relatively low cost with the strategic mobility people usually associate<BR>
with grav.<BR>
<BR>
I actually wonder how much we could trim the cost of the Rapira-D if we<BR>
replaced the power-hungry grav units with an ACV suspension ...<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, an Infantry Support Vehicle - a combination of battlefield taxi,<BR>
point defense system and some sort of artillery weapon - is something that<BR>
probably needs to be built for Loyal Mongo. I guess you could replace the<BR>
laser in the Ming with an autocannon plus PDFC (turret may need to be<BR>
bigger), plus replace the 12 m3 of MHD plant with, say, 8 infantry.<BR>
<BR>
Imight do the numbers tonight.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 07:33:53 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 18:38:56 EDT<BR>
> From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: Rapira-D<BR>
><BR>
> Long suffering TMLers, prepare for another attack from...<BR>
><BR>
> A-1 Armament Industries (the first name in the construction of<BR>
> destruction) bringing you...<BR>
><BR>
> The A-1  _Rapira-D_  Heavy Overwatch Grav-Tank<BR>
>  Weight: 744.65 tons.  Cost: Cr 11,287,323.  Brother can you spare a<BR>
> dime?  Price includes full ammo load.   This one can't float, neither.<BR>
<BR>
Just as a side note, this baby shows just how high-value military cargos<BR>
should be in a merchant campaign.<BR>
<BR>
Assuming you can fit one of these into 20 dtons of volume, that makes a<BR>
cargo value per dton of roughly six hundred thou a dton.<BR>
<BR>
The factory could ship these halfway across the Imperium, and still make<BR>
money out of volume discounts ...<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:58:55 -0500<BR>
From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Geneered Spacers<BR>
<BR>
At 05:12 AM 09/06/2000, Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
><snip><BR>
>I ran across the reference last night looking for the space gypsies<BR>
>mentioned earlier.  Still can't find them ...<BR>
<BR>
If you do find them could you send em and email about it, I have always wanted the Romany of the stars.<BR>
<BR>
Sam Thomas<BR>
sinbad sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3013<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3014</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, September 6 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3014<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: [BITS] New Release out of the bag WAS Re: IRIS question<BR>
Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
Re: PowerMac Vs. NT<BR>
Re: Copyrights<BR>
Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
Re: Rapira-D<BR>
Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
RE: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
Re: Rapira-D<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
RE: Geneered Spacers<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3012<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3012<BR>
dating yourself...<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 17:32:45 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [BITS] New Release out of the bag WAS Re: IRIS question<BR>
<BR>
At 10:28 -0400 6/9/00, "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> wrote:<BR>
>Cool. Any word yet from Werehorse 23? I know they're usually pretty keen on<BR>
>BITS stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Unsure if we've even told them that it exists yet as things got <BR>
chaotic in the run up to GenCon (UK).<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:10:24 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
<BR>
"Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Dom> *I* didn't start this discussion. I merely asked about someone else's<BR>
> > comments that this would impact the Traveller Reprints.<BR>
>Actually, I was responding to the thread, not laying blame or making<BR>
>accusations. =)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough; I responded as you cited me.<BR>
<BR>
I wish rumours would have some substance before people post them :-(<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:13:29 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: PowerMac Vs. NT<BR>
<BR>
"Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Apologies for not attributing quote, but never mind...<BR>
<BR>
Dom Mooney wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><<SNIP>><BR>
> > > I doubt (having seen the resource demands of H&E on an NT 4 system)<BR>
> > > that it's going to run happily on an SE30... :-/<BR>
> > ><BR>
><</SNIP>><BR>
><BR>
>Oh good, another chance to listen to the 'Mac Vs PC/Micro$loth Windoze'<BR>
>debate - as if I don't get enough of this at work #8-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Somehow I think a 68030 is not really going to give a PII or PIII a <BR>
run for its money, no matter how much I am in the MacOS Camp....<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:26:48 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Copyrights<BR>
<BR>
Marc Miller wrote:<BR>
> Gamelords was originally run by Kerry Lloyd. Their material was acquired by <BR>
>Tadashi Ehara, and I believe that it has reverted to me.<BR>
<BR>
If this is true, here's one enthusiastic vote for a line of Gamelords Traveller reprints after you've finished the GDW Canon.<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:28:18 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
At 7:40 AM -0700 9/6/00, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>Well, these are the same worms, more or less, where they found that<BR>
>castrating them also worked to extend the lifespan...What worries me (a<BR>
>lot!) is that they're jumping right into human trials on the stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Jumping to human trials of the drug or of castration?<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:30:14 +1000 <BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
So, the down side of immortality is no sex....hmmmm<BR>
Let me think about that!<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- ----------------<BR>
Paul Harris<BR>
Dytech Solutions<BR>
Ph: (03) 6224 4116<BR>
Fax: (03) 6224 4117<BR>
Mob: 0419 880 248<BR>
Email: paul.harris@dytech.com.au<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- ----------------<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: David P. Summers [mailto:summers@alum.mit.edu]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 7 September 2000 8:28<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> At 7:40 AM -0700 9/6/00, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> >Well, these are the same worms, more or less, where they found that<BR>
> >castrating them also worked to extend the lifespan...What <BR>
> worries me (a<BR>
> >lot!) is that they're jumping right into human trials on the stuff.<BR>
> <BR>
> Jumping to human trials of the drug or of castration?<BR>
> <BR>
> ______________________________<BR>
> summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but <BR>
> I'm in California.)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 15:37:46 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000 22:12:36 +1000, "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
<BR>
>But, when you think about it, there's no real reason why Trillion Credit<BR>
>Army couldn't be played.  It's just Trillion Credit Grav Tank that's a<BR>
>worry.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Wouldn't that be GT: Ogre?  :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:42:12 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 7:40 AM -0700 9/6/00, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> >Well, these are the same worms, more or less, where they found that<BR>
> >castrating them also worked to extend the lifespan...What worries me (a<BR>
> >lot!) is that they're jumping right into human trials on the stuff.<BR>
> <BR>
> Jumping to human trials of the drug or of castration?<BR>
> <BR>
Is this Cynthia Kenyon's work?<BR>
<BR>
I used to be one of her secretaries.<BR>
<BR>
That stuff works.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  ^_^<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:47:08 -0700<BR>
From: Thing <gduke@kendaco.telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
>===== Original Message From traveller@lists.imagiconline.com =====<BR>
>So, the down side of immortality is no sex....hmmmm<BR>
>Let me think about that!<BR>
<BR>
Nope, the downside is no procreation. Many forms of sex are still possible for <BR>
Castrati.  Of course I have heard that desire does suffer a bit.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
ThingUnderTheStairs.<BR>
=====================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:42:47 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
No mime here. just plain text.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Bruce<BR>
Johnson<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 10:10 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
How the *&*%@$# did that go out as a _mime_ ^%#$@ message???!!! I was<BR>
using _pine_ fer chrissake!!<BR>
<BR>
The only _plainer_ text way of doing it is to telnet into the bleeping<BR>
sendmail port and doing it all by hand!<BR>
<BR>
Sorry folks!<BR>
<BR>
Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> For those of use who have MIME Support turned off, Bruce said:<BR>
>  On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >=20<BR>
> > "Scientists Find Drugs Can Double Worm=92s Life Span"<BR>
> > http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/worm000905.html<BR>
> >=20<BR>
> > bloo<BR>
> >=20<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:24:27 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
At 18:00 -0400 6/9/00, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
>yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
>"September sixth, 2000"<BR>
><BR>
>Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
>"Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
<BR>
Actually, 'Sith of September, 2000' is how we would say it.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"Once we actually mapped it for publication it seemed to shrink<BR>
in size and was no longer the immensity that would take months<BR>
to traverse. As things become known, they lose grandeur."<BR>
After Steve Perrin, Pavis & Big Rubble Reprint Epilogue<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:31:08 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
At 18:00 -0400 6/9/00, Eamon wrote:<BR>
>Ditto. Hopefully I'll have more free time next year. Hopefully the rest of<BR>
>the BITS crew will be able to cope with two TNE Heritics given a year's<BR>
>advance warning!<BR>
<BR>
Well, we've managed to get Nick to start saying nice things about T4 <BR>
these days, and he's just confessed to buying the Rebellion <BR>
Sourcebook....<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:50:28 +1000 <BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
Hey, this leads me to think that anagathics have a substantial effect on<BR>
sex drive. <BR>
The drugs were origionally developed as a form of Chemical Castration<BR>
for Criminal Sex Offenders, but were discovered to have an interesting<BR>
anagathic side effect. <BR>
Subsequent anathagic development has only been able to increase the<BR>
anti-aging effect, but has only reduced the the effect on sex drive by a<BR>
small amount.<BR>
<BR>
scout_harris  <BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Thing [mailto:gduke@kendaco.telebyte.com]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 7 September 2000 8:47<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >===== Original Message From traveller@lists.imagiconline.com =====<BR>
> >So, the down side of immortality is no sex....hmmmm<BR>
> >Let me think about that!<BR>
> <BR>
> Nope, the downside is no procreation. Many forms of sex are <BR>
> still possible for <BR>
> Castrati.  Of course I have heard that desire does suffer a bit.<BR>
> <BR>
> G.D.D.<BR>
> ThingUnderTheStairs.<BR>
> =====================<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 15:58:19 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
Might be...all I remember is that they took male nematodes, snipped off<BR>
the male sex organs and the things lived something like twice as long as<BR>
unneutered males. <BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Wed, 6 Sep 2000, David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > At 7:40 AM -0700 9/6/00, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> > >Well, these are the same worms, more or less, where they found that<BR>
> > >castrating them also worked to extend the lifespan...What worries me (a<BR>
> > >lot!) is that they're jumping right into human trials on the stuff.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Jumping to human trials of the drug or of castration?<BR>
> ><BR>
> Is this Cynthia Kenyon's work?<BR>
> <BR>
> I used to be one of her secretaries.<BR>
> <BR>
> That stuff works.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 16:34:48 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
Get ready for the Rapira-E.  Here is a few nits:<BR>
<BR>
> Crew:   1 Driver, seated in hull,  Volume 1 m^3  Weight 0.2 tons  Cr100*<BR>
>     1 Comnd., seated in tur.,  Volume 1 m^3  Weight 0.2 tons  Cr 100 <BR>
<BR>
Commander should be standing (I know it doesn't always make sense). <BR>
Volume -> 2m^3.<BR>
....<BR>
> Stabilization gear:<BR>
>     Laser & missile launcher =  0.926972 tons  0.926972 m^3  Cr 70,000<BR>
>     Three autocannon mounts = 0.087 tons  0.087 m^3  Cr 210,000<BR>
<BR>
Minimum volume for each stabilization gear is 0.1 m^3, with<BR>
corresponding increases to weight and price.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:24:50 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Joseph Dietrich wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> I thought the gratuitious name changes were a little annoying (for example,<BR>
> priests now have spell domains instead of spheres)<BR>
<BR>
Does that make high-level priests "masters of their domains"? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 17:02:50 -0700 <BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Geneered Spacers<BR>
<BR>
>From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
>Subject: RE: Geneered Spacers<BR>
><BR>
>At 05:12 AM 09/06/2000, Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
>><snip><BR>
>>I ran across the reference last night looking for the space gypsies<BR>
>>mentioned earlier.  Still can't find them ...<BR>
><BR>
>If you do find them could you send em and email about it, I have always<BR>
>wanted the Romany of the stars.<BR>
<BR>
	The FGU game "Other Suns" had a race that was essentially the Rom in<BR>
space - I forget the name, but they are essentially a sub-species of one of<BR>
the major races (the Altani) that packed up and left several millenia<BR>
before.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - they just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 01:18:10 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "SD Mooney" <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 11:24 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 18:00 -0400 6/9/00, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
> >yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
> >"September sixth, 2000"<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
> >"Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, 'Sith of September, 2000' is how we would say it.<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
<BR>
Does Darth Gates know?<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 01:21:58 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "SD Mooney" <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 11:31 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 18:00 -0400 6/9/00, Eamon wrote:<BR>
> >Ditto. Hopefully I'll have more free time next year. Hopefully the rest<BR>
of<BR>
> >the BITS crew will be able to cope with two TNE Heritics given a year's<BR>
> >advance warning!<BR>
><BR>
> Well, we've managed to get Nick to start saying nice things about T4<BR>
> these days, and he's just confessed to buying the Rebellion<BR>
> Sourcebook....<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
<BR>
And I already *am* a TNE Heretic...<BR>
<BR>
[and about to run a game in a couple of weeks once our shadowrun chacters<BR>
get back to the Seattle of 2060 after our accidental jaunt to the Wild West<BR>
by way of Barsaive... don't ask... And I'm a *decker* fer crissakes... :-( ]<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:12:17 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: High Guard Shipyard v1.0 released<BR>
<BR>
On 6 Sep 00, at 10:10, Jim Cooper wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hello Andrew,<BR>
>      Just a note re this version. When I added backup computers, drives, etc.<BR>
> the listing shows them as backup units but retains the primary units. For<BR>
> instance, primary units are M-4, J-3, PP-4 with backups M-2 J-2. The ship's<BR>
> card USP correctly identifies the primary 344 codes but lists the backups as<BR>
> M-4,J-3 (same as primaries).  Primary and backup computers from avions section<BR>
> listed properly on the ship's card.<BR>
<BR>
Yes your right, I forgot to include the "with EngBak do begin" statement in <BR>
the analysis. I've already corrected it (and another few bugs) in the <BR>
maintaince release I'm working. It should be out at the weekend.<BR>
<BR>
>     Other than that, I think it is an excellent program. Thank you.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks, always nice to know my work is well received.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 21:18:56 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3012<BR>
<BR>
> Why try to create humans with prehensile feet when you can just Uplift<BR>
>  chimpanzees?<BR>
<BR>
Why try to uplift chimps when human feet are damned near prehensile as it is? <BR>
With training, you can do quite a bit with them, y'know. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 20:38:06 -0500<BR>
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3012<BR>
<BR>
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Why try to create humans with prehensile feet when you can just Uplift<BR>
> >  chimpanzees?<BR>
<BR>
> Why try to uplift chimps when human feet are damned near prehensile as it is?<BR>
> With training, you can do quite a bit with them, y'know.<BR>
<BR>
Some people have toes that approximate fingers pretty well, and for them<BR>
you can do quite a bit. I, OTOH, have very short stubby toes and even<BR>
something simple like picking up a pencil with them is right out.<BR>
<BR>
I can see a minor race being created, or developing, with long dexterous<BR>
toes that are quite useful for fine manipulation. You could go past<BR>
there to opposing big toes, like thumbs on your hands and get *really*<BR>
good...but why do that when your chimps already *have* opposable big<BR>
toes, just uplift them! <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 21:09:46 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu puts on the net:<BR>
>How the *&*%@$# did that go out as a _mime_ ^%#$@ message???!!! I was<BR>
>using _pine_ fer chrissake!!<BR>
>The only _plainer_ text way of doing it is to telnet into the bleeping<BR>
>sendmail port and doing it all by hand!<BR>
<BR>
And how many of these MS Outlook using pups will even understand what the <BR>
Hell you are talking about?<BR>
<BR>
I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being on the net for <BR>
two years made you an old timer.<BR>
I've been on the Internet proper since 1988.  Compuserve for at least four <BR>
prior to that...<BR>
Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities started and AOL <BR>
offered Internet access.<BR>
<BR>
Where the Hell is my cane?  No.  Not that one, the hook topped rattan one <BR>
that makes people nervous when I carry it. :-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 19:33:20 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <lwmarti@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin, clearly a wannabe old-timer, wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being on the net for<BR>
> two years made you an old timer.<BR>
> I've been on the Internet proper since 1988.  Compuserve for at<BR>
> least four<BR>
> prior to that...<BR>
> Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
> started and AOL<BR>
> offered Internet access.<BR>
<BR>
Youngsters today! The first web content I developed was for a browser called<BR>
Mosaic. Those were the days. None of those new-fangled HTML editors, either.<BR>
No way. It was either emacs, vi, or nothing.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:52:16 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Nick Bradbeer <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 11:27:am<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
> > "September sixth, 2000"<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
><BR>
> Personally, I'd say:<BR>
> "It's September the sixth", but "On the sixth of September..." with some<BR>
> random variation between the two.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Locally (Oz), we use, September 6, September 6th, September the 6th, or the<BR>
6th of September.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 22:14:55 -0500<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
> > I just want to know why ghouls and ghasts have a Charisma of 16 (!).<BR>
> > Telling someone that they have a "ghoulish Charisma" shouldn't be a<BR>
> > compliment, methinks.<BR>
><BR>
> Mostly because charisma is now a horrible misnomer; it appears to<BR>
basically<BR>
> be 'presence'.<BR>
<BR>
I thought as much, but then, from the same book:<BR>
<BR>
"Charisma measures a character's force of personality, persuasiveness,<BR>
personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. It<BR>
represents actual personal strength, [whatever that means] not merely how<BR>
one is percieved in a social setting." Hmm.<BR>
<BR>
I cannot think of one of these characteristics that would apply to a ghoul<BR>
in any measure. Force of personality?<BR>
<BR>
It's also noted in the description of Charisma that zombies have an average<BR>
Charisma of 1, yet under the capsule description on page 10 in the back<BR>
(yes, in the back) that zombies have an average Charisma of 11! Hmm, again.<BR>
<BR>
One would think that you would just give them a high Intimidation skill or<BR>
some such rot (so they could scare the bejezzus outta you, but not be able<BR>
to do so well at Diplomacy, for example).<BR>
<BR>
But now this has gone *waaayyyy* off Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Unless T5 becomes a d20 game, that is ... EEEEEEEKKK!!! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:24:08 +1000 <BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Joseph R. Dietrich [mailto:yikes@evansville.net]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 7 September 2000 13:15<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
.<BR>
> <BR>
> But now this has gone *waaayyyy* off Traveller.<BR>
> <BR>
> Unless T5 becomes a d20 game, that is ... EEEEEEEKKK!!! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
What!!! T5 is not going to be a d20 game! But...but.... <sob><BR>
<BR>
  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:38:50 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> How the *&*%@$# did that go out as a _mime_ ^%#$@ message???!!! I was<BR>
> using _pine_ fer chrissake!!<BR>
<BR>
The "headline" used 92h instead of an apostrophe. That resulted in it<BR>
being sent with "quoted printable" encoding by the list. Here it is<BR>
with the quoted printable "broken":<BR>
<BR>
>>> "Scientists Find Drugs Can Double Worm<=><9><2>s Life Span"<BR>
<BR>
I'd like to strangle MS for writing so much software that automatically<BR>
uses those Windows only extenstions to the Latin-1 character set. <BR>
<BR>
=80 80h 128 ?   euro symbol<BR>
=82 82h 130 ,   single quote (low)<BR>
=83 83h 131 ?   florin/guilder<BR>
=84 84h 132 ,,  double quote (low)<BR>
=85 85h 133 ... ellipsis<BR>
=86 86h 134 ?   dagger<BR>
=87 87h 135 ?   double dagger<BR>
=88 88h 136 ^   circumflex accent<BR>
=89 89h 137 ?   per-mill (per cent = "0/0" per mill = "0/00")<BR>
=8A 8Ah 138 ?   uppercase S with hacek<BR>
=8B 8Bh 139 >   left bracket<BR>
=8C 8Ch 140 OE  ligated uppercase OE<BR>
=91 91h 145 `   left single quote<BR>
=92 92h 146 '   right single quote (apostrophe)<BR>
=93 93h 147 "   left double quote<BR>
=94 94h 148 "   right double quote<BR>
=95 95h 149 *   dot bullet<BR>
=96 96h 150 --  en dash<BR>
=97 97h 151 --- em dash<BR>
=98 98h 152 ~   tilde accent<BR>
=99 99h 153 TM  trademark<BR>
=9A 9Ah 154 ?   lowercase s with hacek<BR>
=9B 9Bh 155 <   small left angle bracket<BR>
=9C 9Ch 156 oe  ligated lowercase oe<BR>
=9F 9Fh 159 ?   uppercase Y with dieresis<BR>
<BR>
All the characters above exist in Windows 95/98 in an area that's<BR>
*reserved* for *control* characters in Latin 1. <sigh><BR>
<BR>
It'd only be a minor annoyance, except that far too many programs<BR>
automatically *convert* what you type to these. So you type "..." and<BR>
it gets changed to =85. <BR>
<BR>
It's gotten so bad that I keep an index card with the translations on<BR>
them next to the computer.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3014<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3015</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 7 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3015<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Killing a System<BR>
Re: Killing a System<BR>
Re: Geneered Spacers<BR>
Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
Re: Rumors<BR>
Re: TML participation in Conquest<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: Rapira-D<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
Zombies and Brain Eating (was: Re: OT: D&D3)<BR>
Traveller Filk<BR>
Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: [BITS] New Release out of the bag<BR>
RE: [BITS] New Release out of the bag<BR>
RE: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Looking for FFE001 & FFE002<BR>
Was RE: Rapira-D<BR>
Re: Looking for FFE001 & FFE002<BR>
RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 19:50:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>     I was just now thinking about this.  And, there might be a way to "kill"<BR>
> a system with a gas giant.  If you set it up right you might be able to push<BR>
> a brown dwarf/gas giant into becoming a star.  If you used a simultanius<sp><BR>
> blast from several hundred to several thousand nuclear weapons to force a<BR>
> brown dwarf/gas giant into becomin a star.  Now if it is close enough to<BR>
> main world of a system, it could blast away the atmosphere and/or boil off<BR>
> the oceans.  I know this idea is a bit exotic, but it might work & be well<BR>
> within the limits of Imperial Technology.<BR>
<BR>
Not even close. You'd need more[1] than 1 nuke per square km of<BR>
"surface".  And a gas giant has *billions* of sq. km...<BR>
<BR>
Plus, it won't become a star. To be a star it has to mave enough mass<BR>
to hold itself together after ignition. And if it had that much mass,<BR>
it'd *already* be a star.<BR>
<BR>
The "technology" that was used in 2010(?) by Clarke was essentially<BR>
magic. <BR>
<BR>
[1] likely *very* much more. Because the force has to compress tens of<BR>
thousands of km of material.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 19:55:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In-Reply-To: <39B5B39E.6F371C72@interpath.com><BR>
> Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
><BR>
> Best method is to contrive to get 2 suns to collide, or maybe send <BR>
> something Jupiter-plus size crashing into the sun. Nice stellar collapse, <BR>
> hard radiation everywhere & if you're really, really lucky you get to <BR>
> create a pulsar which sweeps the entire solar system about twice a second <BR>
> with some really unfriendly radiation....<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but a Jupiter sized object dropped into a star like the sun<BR>
would cause a lot of flares and variable out put for a long time (in<BR>
human terms), but it wouldn't come *close* to disrupting it. And<BR>
causing it to turn into a pulsar? No way. That requires supernova<BR>
energy levels.<BR>
<BR>
Jupiter is less than 1/1000th the mass of the Sun. (1:1047 to be<BR>
precise) <BR>
<BR>
A neutron star has to weigh more that twice what the sun does. And it<BR>
starts out more massive than that.<BR>
<BR>
Jupiter, btw, masses 317 times what Earth does. And Earth masses quite<BR>
a bit (sextillions of kg, as I recall).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 19:09:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Geneered Spacers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> Blue Planet v2 has geneered 'spacers'. Basically, double jointed<BR>
>>> humans with prehensile feet with an opposable grip, plus other body<BR>
>>> mods for zero-G adaption.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> There was also a race written up for AR2 (Solomani & Aslan) that are<BR>
>> a set of spacefaring gypsies, I think a copy is still available.<BR>
><BR>
> Why try to create humans with prehensile feet when you can just<BR>
> Uplift chimpanzees? The Solomani did it with the dolphins, and were<BR>
> rather more successful than Brinn's Terragens, so we know they've got<BR>
> the technology.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, geneering the humans would be *easy*. Remember, humans and<BR>
chimps are so close genetically, that it may be possible to produce a<BR>
viable (if sterile) offspring from a human/chimp mating.<BR>
<BR>
So it's likely that prehensile feet would be a *minor* gene mod.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 19:12:51 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
Ok.  Now what we need is the slang and/or<BR>
shortened forms for casual conversation,<BR>
assuming that is possible for Vilani.<BR>
<BR>
"Nuushuu" for a 2nd Louey?<BR>
"Kadig" or "Kad" for Sarge?<BR>
"Dag" for Private?<BR>
<BR>
"The Nushuu ordered the Kad to take three Dags and seize the<BR>
hill.  The Igkad politely informed the Nushuu that he wouldn't make<BR>
Kashuu if he did that."<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 5 Sep 00, at 16:51, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Alas,it didn't come up.  I do formaly name the Vilani Army as the Gisadia Ziru<BR>
> > Sirka, and the rank of Major General is Lurkugiishi, with the "ishi" attached<BR>
> > to the name for Division to indicate Commander of Divisons.  Draw your own<BR>
> > conclusions.  A company commader would be a Shuguusishi, for example. --<BR>
><BR>
> Okay, how about:<BR>
><BR>
>   Field Marshall - Gisadiaishi<BR>
>   General - Iglurkugiishi<BR>
>   Lt General - Dilurkuiishi<BR>
>   Maj General - Lurkuiishi<BR>
>   Brig General - Kalurkuiishi<BR>
>   Colonel - Erkaishi<BR>
>   Lt Colonel - Kaerkaishi<BR>
>   Major - Dishuugusishi<BR>
>   Captain - Shuugusishi<BR>
>   1st Lt - Kashuugusishi<BR>
>   2nd Lt - Nuushuugusishi<BR>
>   Sgt Maj - Igkadigarishi<BR>
>   Staff Sgt - Dikadigarishi<BR>
>   Sgt - Kadigarishi<BR>
>   Cpl - Kakadigarishi<BR>
>   Lance Cpl - Nuukadigarishi<BR>
>   Private - Dagashii (lit. Warrior)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:43:15 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Mark Urbin, clearly a wannabe old-timer, wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being on the net for<BR>
> > two years made you an old timer.<BR>
> > I've been on the Internet proper since 1988.  Compuserve for at<BR>
> > least four<BR>
> > prior to that...<BR>
> > Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
> > started and AOL<BR>
> > offered Internet access.<BR>
> <BR>
> Youngsters today! The first web content I developed was for a browser called<BR>
> Mosaic. Those were the days. None of those new-fangled HTML editors, either.<BR>
> No way. It was either emacs, vi, or nothing.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
One word.  Gopherspace.<BR>
<BR>
	Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:49:40 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
<Bruce Johnson><BR>
yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
"September sixth, 2000"<BR>
</BJ><BR>
<BR>
Actually, I practice what I preach.  I'm given to saying dates as<BR>
"Seventy, Oh-two, twenty-one".  Now, this mostly this gets me funny looks<BR>
from clerks and the like, but you will all be converted enventually! Mark<BR>
my words!! BWAAHAHAHAAHAHAAH!!! *ahem* Thank you for your attention. <BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 00:34:45 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Rumors<BR>
<BR>
> I wish rumours would have some substance before people post them :-(<BR>
<BR>
The truth content of rumors varies between 0 and 0.01%<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 22:17:34 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML participation in Conquest<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Clarion Hotel in Millbrae, California, this weekend.  I was only there on<BR>
> Sunday to play in Kristian Miller's almost live action role playing game<BR>
> known as Star Trek: Another Twist of the Knife.  I'll let him describe the<BR>
> mayhem, which he may already have done.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I haven't described it as it would be off topic; but, it was a<BR>
lot of fun.  I may not take the game into the LARP format since I can't<BR>
sit back and watch the treachery with people wandering around.  Still,<BR>
LARP would allow a lot more people to get involved...<BR>
<BR>
After DunDraCon 25 (February 2000), I'm thinking about taking Striker on<BR>
the road to conventions in the Bay Area.<BR>
<BR>
I didn't hear any report about Michael Silverling's Traveller game at<BR>
Conquest.  Did anyone play it?  I was in it at Conquest '99 and it was a<BR>
blast.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:12:16 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>> Everyone should use the ISO standard for dates/times<BR>
>>>> <BR>
>>>>         2000-09-05 15:52:31.5....<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Yes! That's the way!<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Hey... with a bit of imagination this could be a pretty <BR>
>>> good US-bashing thread...<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> ;-)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Hey! We get it *half* right. 09-05 is standard US usage. It's just<BR>
>> that we add the year to the wrong end. The Brits have it<BR>
>> *completely* backwards.<BR>
><BR>
> (/tongue-in-cheek nationalist rant/)<BR>
> Backwards? Uh-uh. Consistant. dd-mm-yyyy or yyyy-mm-dd. But month, day,<BR>
> year? That's just stupid!<BR>
<BR>
So why do you write HH:MM:SS? That's not consistent.<BR>
<BR>
> Over here in the UK a billion is a million million, as it should be.<BR>
> British Billionaires are REAL Billionaires, not paltry<BR>
> multi-millionaires with delusions of wealth.<BR>
<BR>
Except that there *are* no "British Billion"-aires. Of *any* Nationality!<BR>
<BR>
> A tonne is an Imperial measure and as such is 2200 lbs.<BR>
<BR>
A *ton* is Imperial. A *tonne* is *French/metric*. <BR>
<BR>
> Metric ton? Pah! I spit on your metricised units of measurement! Bring back<BR>
> old measurements, like the chain, the rod etc!<BR>
<BR>
You forgot the following:<BR>
<BR>
finger (??)<BR>
hand (4 inches)<BR>
Span (6 inches) (from end of thumb to little finger*)<BR>
cubit (18 inches) (from fingertip to elbow*)<BR>
ell (45 inches) (from fingertip to opposite shoulder*)<BR>
fathom (6 feet) (from finertip to opposite fingertip*)<BR>
<BR>
* with arm/fingers spread.<BR>
<BR>
The yard, btw, is from fingertip to nose. Note that the yard, Ell, and<BR>
fathom are all based on "logical" ways of measuring rope, cord, or cloth.<BR>
<BR>
Then there's liquid measure:<BR>
<BR>
3 teaspoons = 1 tablespoon<BR>
2 tablespoons = 1 ounce<BR>
8 ounces = 1 cup<BR>
2 cups = 1 pint<BR>
2 pints = 1 quart<BR>
2 quarts = 1 pottle (yes *p*)<BR>
2 pottles = 1 gallon...<BR>
<BR>
There are drams in there somewhere at the low end, as well as various<BR>
firkins, barrels and butts at the high end.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:42:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 18:00 -0400 6/9/00, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
>>yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
>>"September sixth, 2000"<BR>
>><BR>
>>Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
>>"Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, 'Sith of September, 2000' is how we would say it.<BR>
<BR>
Aha! Now we know where the Dark Lords of the Sith come from!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:45:50 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I find that ACVs are the way to go at TL9 and up. You get the mobilty of<BR>
> grav, and the cost of track.<BR>
<BR>
But ACVs are *severely* limited in terms of their ability to handle<BR>
slopes. They also don't like vertical obstacles (both tank traps and<BR>
pits are a problem. Then again, tanks have the same problem with the<BR>
obstacles. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 22:30:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
From: Joseph R. Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
<BR>
>I thought as much, but then, from the same book:<BR>
><BR>
>"Charisma measures a character's force of personality, persuasiveness,<BR>
>personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. It<BR>
>represents actual personal strength, [whatever that means] not merely how<BR>
>one is percieved in a social setting." Hmm.<BR>
><BR>
>I cannot think of one of these characteristics that would apply to a ghoul<BR>
>in any measure. Force of personality?<BR>
><BR>
>It's also noted in the description of Charisma that zombies have an average<BR>
>Charisma of 1, yet under the capsule description on page 10 in the back<BR>
>(yes, in the back) that zombies have an average Charisma of 11! Hmm, again.<BR>
><BR>
>One would think that you would just give them a high Intimidation skill or<BR>
>some such rot (so they could scare the bejezzus outta you, but not be able<BR>
>to do so well at Diplomacy, for example).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    There is one thing I have to say, if a Zombie tells you if you don't<BR>
sign the threaty he will crack open your skull & eat your brains right then,<BR>
& you sign the threaty, that is diplomacy.<BR>
    Remember, diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice Doggy" while you find a<BR>
nice big rock.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 22:40:31 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
Hey, I remeber that.. (and I am an outlook reading pup)..<BR>
<BR>
I remeber having a shell account and using Mail to send and read mail. Also<BR>
FTPing to the local server and then Xmodeming it to my DOS workstation at<BR>
home. I remeber when there were 300 web sites, and the only way to view them<BR>
was on a SPARC (at least at the college that I got access thru).<BR>
<BR>
All that and I kinda like the happy, easier future. I just want it to stop<BR>
now. No voice req for computers.. that stuff scares me.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being on the net for<BR>
> > two years made you an old timer.<BR>
> > I've been on the Internet proper since 1988.  Compuserve for at<BR>
> > least four<BR>
> > prior to that...<BR>
> > Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
> > started and AOL<BR>
> > offered Internet access.<BR>
><BR>
> Youngsters today! The first web content I developed was for a browser<BR>
called<BR>
> Mosaic. Those were the days. None of those new-fangled HTML editors,<BR>
either.<BR>
> No way. It was either emacs, vi, or nothing.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
One word.  Gopherspace.<BR>
<BR>
	Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 00:43:49 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Zombies and Brain Eating (was: Re: OT: D&D3)<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> From: Joseph R. Dietrich <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> >One would think that you would just give them a high Intimidation skill or<BR>
> >some such rot (so they could scare the bejezzus outta you, but not be able<BR>
> >to do so well at Diplomacy, for example).<BR>
> <BR>
>     There is one thing I have to say, if a Zombie tells you if you don't<BR>
> sign the threaty he will crack open your skull & eat your brains right then,<BR>
> & you sign the threaty, that is diplomacy.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.brains4zombies.com/<BR>
<BR>
And in case zombies are susceptible to prion diseases (or are<BR>
asymptomatic carriers of prion diseases):<BR>
<BR>
http://www.bioscience.org/guides/cjd.htm<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  What is the incidence of prion diseases among the Vilani?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 00:44:48 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Traveller Filk<BR>
<BR>
It's been a while since anyone has posted a filk on the TML, so I<BR>
decided that it's about time for another one.  I therefore present the<BR>
lyrics to "Vargr of Lunion" (to the tune of Warren Zevon's "Werewolves<BR>
of London," of course):<BR>
<BR>
I saw a Vargr with a Terran menu in his hand<BR>
Walking through the streets of Heya in the rain<BR>
He was looking for a place called Goff 'n' Grub<BR>
Going to get himself a big dish of beef chow mein<BR>
Vargr of Lunion<BR>
<BR>
If you hear him howling around your airlock hatch<BR>
Better not let him in<BR>
An "Empress Marava" was captured late last night<BR>
Vargr of Lunion again<BR>
Vargr of Lunion<BR>
<BR>
When we saw him down on Vilis, we thought that he might kill us<BR>
Lately he's been seen dirtside on Mongo<BR>
He ain't no damn Garou<BR>
But he can slaughter you<BR>
I'd hate to meet his tailor<BR>
Vargr of Lunion<BR>
<BR>
Well, I saw Archduke Bzrk walking with the Empress<BR>
Doing the Vargr of Lunion<BR>
I saw Archduke Bzrk's son walking with the Empress<BR>
Doing the Vargr of Lunion<BR>
I saw a Vargr drinking a pina colada down at Brubek's<BR>
His hair was perfect<BR>
Vargr of Lunion<BR>
Draw blood<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 06:01:08 GMT<BR>
From: bill@phalanx1.demon.co.uk (Bill Hindley)<BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
Thanks guys now all I have to do is figure out the extensive supply<BR>
and logistics backup for these guys (they are vilani after all) and<BR>
some suitable names for the Unit and officers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Ok.  Now what we need is the slang and/or<BR>
>shortened forms for casual conversation,<BR>
>assuming that is possible for Vilani.<BR>
><BR>
>"Nuushuu" for a 2nd Louey?<BR>
>"Kadig" or "Kad" for Sarge?<BR>
>"Dag" for Private?<BR>
><BR>
>"The Nushuu ordered the Kad to take three Dags and seize the<BR>
>hill.  The Igkad politely informed the Nushuu that he wouldn't make<BR>
>Kashuu if he did that."<BR>
><BR>
>bloo<BR>
><BR>
>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> On 5 Sep 00, at 16:51, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> > Alas,it didn't come up.  I do formaly name the Vilani Army as the Gisadia Ziru<BR>
>> > Sirka, and the rank of Major General is Lurkugiishi, with the "ishi" attached<BR>
>> > to the name for Division to indicate Commander of Divisons.  Draw your own<BR>
>> > conclusions.  A company commader would be a Shuguusishi, for example. --<BR>
>><BR>
>> Okay, how about:<BR>
>><BR>
>>   Field Marshall - Gisadiaishi<BR>
>>   General - Iglurkugiishi<BR>
>>   Lt General - Dilurkuiishi<BR>
>>   Maj General - Lurkuiishi<BR>
>>   Brig General - Kalurkuiishi<BR>
>>   Colonel - Erkaishi<BR>
>>   Lt Colonel - Kaerkaishi<BR>
>>   Major - Dishuugusishi<BR>
>>   Captain - Shuugusishi<BR>
>>   1st Lt - Kashuugusishi<BR>
>>   2nd Lt - Nuushuugusishi<BR>
>>   Sgt Maj - Igkadigarishi<BR>
>>   Staff Sgt - Dikadigarishi<BR>
>>   Sgt - Kadigarishi<BR>
>>   Cpl - Kakadigarishi<BR>
>>   Lance Cpl - Nuukadigarishi<BR>
>>   Private - Dagashii (lit. Warrior)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 23:19:43 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <lwmarti@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
HEYA/REGINA (0802-B687745-5)<BR>
<BR>
Members of the Travellers' Aid Society are advised that the political<BR>
situation on Heya is rapidly deteriorating, and the outbreak of war may be<BR>
possible in the next few months. All members should make alternate plans to<BR>
avoid Heya and the potential hostilities if possible.<BR>
<BR>
Traveller's News Service is another Imperium-wide benefit of membership in<BR>
the Travellers' Aid Society.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2000 23:41:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: [BITS] New Release out of the bag<BR>
<BR>
At 10:28 -0400 6/9/00, "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Cool. Any word yet from Werehorse 23?<BR>
<BR>
Nice typo, especially since the Warehouse would probably be where to /find/ <BR>
one...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 07:44:23 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [BITS] New Release out of the bag<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Kelly St.Clair [mailto:kellys@efn.org]<BR>
> Sent: 07 September 2000 07:42<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: [BITS] New Release out of the bag<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> At 10:28 -0400 6/9/00, "Jones, Dean" <BR>
> <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Cool. Any word yet from Werehorse 23?<BR>
> <BR>
> Nice typo, especially since the Warehouse would probably be <BR>
> where to /find/ <BR>
> one...<BR>
<BR>
Not a typo, warped sense of humour :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 08:20:05 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
> "September sixth, 2000" <BR>
> <BR>
> Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
> "Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Strike a light, that's just the posh people, guv'nor. Us cheeky cockney<BR>
chim-er-ney sweeps<BR>
ain't got no use for that kind o' fancy talking. Stone the crows, yew wannna<BR>
talk to me mate Mary Pow-pins :)<BR>
<BR>
Ob-Trav: Confusing local dialect causes Free Traders to pick up speculative<BR>
cargo that is contraband on the next world they visit. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 00:25:27 -0700<BR>
From: Thomas Lawnsby <tsculler@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Looking for FFE001 & FFE002<BR>
<BR>
Howdy,<BR>
<BR>
I just joined the mailing list.<BR>
I'm looking for the "Traveller Classic Books" (001) by Far Future Enterprises<BR>
(containing books 0-8 I believe)<BR>
and<BR>
"Traveller Supplements" (002) by the same company.  I believe this one has 13<BR>
supplements in 1 volume.<BR>
I've looked at local hobby shops around Las Vegas and I can't find them.<BR>
Is there anywhere online that I can purchase these other than Ebay?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks, Tom.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:55:53 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Was RE: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
I always liked the grav assault vehicle I did for MT (I'll be reposting it<BR>
shortly) it carried a 500Mj Naval Fusion Gun as main armament. (I think I'll<BR>
do a TNE version for my Banners Pocket Empire).<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 03:56:44 -0400<BR>
From: "Hunter Gordon" <trav@RPGRealms.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Looking for FFE001 & FFE002<BR>
<BR>
You can order them directly from Far Future (ie: Marc Miller) at <BR>
<BR>
http://www.FarFuture.net<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -Hunter<BR>
<BR>
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********<BR>
<BR>
On 9/7/2000 at 12:25 AM Thomas Lawnsby wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Howdy,<BR>
><BR>
>I just joined the mailing list.<BR>
>I'm looking for the "Traveller Classic Books" (001) by Far Future Enterprises<BR>
>(containing books 0-8 I believe)<BR>
>and<BR>
>"Traveller Supplements" (002) by the same company.  I believe this one has 13<BR>
>supplements in 1 volume.<BR>
>I've looked at local hobby shops around Las Vegas and I can't find them.<BR>
>Is there anywhere online that I can purchase these other than Ebay?<BR>
><BR>
>Thanks, Tom.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 10:21:34 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
> > <BR>
> > But now this has gone *waaayyyy* off Traveller.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Unless T5 becomes a d20 game, that is ... EEEEEEEKKK!!! ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> What!!! T5 is not going to be a d20 game! But...but.... <sob><BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3015<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3016</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/7/00 8:21:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 7 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3016<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3012<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: Refuling from Stars<BR>
More Traveller Filk: Lawyers, Mercs, and Credits<BR>
More Traveller Filk: Suzie Lighning<BR>
Re: Was RE: Rapira-D<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
Kinunir<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: Looking for FFE001 & FFE002<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
RE: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: Refuling from Stars<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: Copyrights<BR>
RE: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 10:25:12 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
> .<BR>
> > <BR>
> > But now this has gone *waaayyyy* off Traveller.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Unless T5 becomes a d20 game, that is ... EEEEEEEKKK!!! ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> What!!! T5 is not going to be a d20 game! But...but.... <sob><BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Not that I'm suggesting that T5 should be a D20 game, but making it<BR>
compatable/producing a D20 mechanic add on book would probably encourage<BR>
newbies into the game. Look at the increased number of Traveller players<BR>
since SJG got the licence for GURPS. Still, that kinda thing is all up to<BR>
Marc.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 11:28:43 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> > Actually, 'Sith of September, 2000' is how we would say it.<BR>
> <BR>
> Aha! Now we know where the Dark Lords of the Sith come from!<BR>
<BR>
Or, more specific, _when_ they came from.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 10:30:21 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3012<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I can see a minor race being created, or developing, with <BR>
> long dexterous<BR>
> toes that are quite useful for fine manipulation. You could go past<BR>
> there to opposing big toes, like thumbs on your hands and get *really*<BR>
> good...but why do that when your chimps already *have* opposable big<BR>
> toes, just uplift them! <g><BR>
<BR>
Also has the added benefit of making available tonnes of monkey jokes. One<BR>
that spring immediately to mind is:<BR>
<BR>
'The truest test of sapiency? Why, it's coming through when the chimps are<BR>
down!'<BR>
( Fiben Bolger, misquoted from 'The Uplift War')<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 22:35:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Mark Urbin, clearly a wannabe old-timer, wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being on the net for<BR>
>> two years made you an old timer.<BR>
>> I've been on the Internet proper since 1988.  Compuserve for at<BR>
>> least four<BR>
>> prior to that...<BR>
>> Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
>> started and AOL<BR>
>> offered Internet access.<BR>
><BR>
> Youngsters today! The first web content I developed was for a browser called<BR>
> Mosaic. Those were the days. None of those new-fangled HTML editors, either.<BR>
> No way. It was either emacs, vi, or nothing.<BR>
<BR>
I was on before both domain-style addressing of mail, and the "Great<BR>
Renaming" of the newsgroup hierachy. (81 or 82?). <BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 10:58:19 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Mark Urbin, clearly a wannabe old-timer, wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being <BR>
> on the net for<BR>
> >> two years made you an old timer.<BR>
> >> I've been on the Internet proper since 1988.  Compuserve for at<BR>
> >> least four<BR>
> >> prior to that...<BR>
> >> Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
> >> started and AOL<BR>
> >> offered Internet access.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Youngsters today! The first web content I developed was for <BR>
> a browser called<BR>
> > Mosaic. Those were the days. None of those new-fangled HTML <BR>
> editors, either.<BR>
> > No way. It was either emacs, vi, or nothing.<BR>
> <BR>
> I was on before both domain-style addressing of mail, and the "Great<BR>
> Renaming" of the newsgroup hierachy. (81 or 82?). <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I was on before this new-fangled 'electricity' thing. We couldn't include<BR>
much content in those days...semaphore's notorious for it's lack of<BR>
graphical support... :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 03:05:35 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Refuling from Stars<BR>
<BR>
It occurred to me that at a sufficiently high tech level a<BR>
starship should be able to refuel from a star. Obviously lower <BR>
temperature and/or lower pressure stars would be easier to <BR>
refuel from.<BR>
<BR>
We know that (some) canonical Traveller starships can refuel<BR>
from gas giants. Many gas giants give off large amounts of<BR>
radiation. Therefore traveller ships must have some ability<BR>
to protect their crews from this radiation. How much more<BR>
radiation protection do you need to refuel from a star?<BR>
If the radiation levels are too high for a living crew<BR>
can you do it with a robotic crew?<BR>
<BR>
If starships of a sufficiently high tech level can refuel from <BR>
stars than perhaps star systems without gas giants can be<BR>
used by enemy fleets to refuel without having to first conquer<BR>
a main world.<BR>
<BR>
I realize that this is a difficult procedure and that it would be<BR>
much safer to refuel using asteroids or comets but refueling from<BR>
a sun might be much faster.<BR>
<BR>
Even if this is impossible given the Imperium's tech level it might<BR>
be a good idea for an Imperial 'Mission Impossible' type movie<BR>
or an Ancient ship.<BR>
<BR>
Thoughts?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 03:18:53 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: More Traveller Filk: Lawyers, Mercs, and Credits<BR>
<BR>
Lawyers, Mercs, and Credits<BR>
<BR>
Well, I went home with the steward<BR>
The way I always do <BR>
How was I to know <BR>
She [1] was with the Zhodani, too<BR>
<BR>
I was gambling on Arden [2]<BR>
I took a little risk <BR>
Send lawyers, mercs and credits <BR>
Dad, get me out of this<BR>
<BR>
I'm the innocent bystander<BR>
Somehow I got stuck<BR>
Between the rock and the hard place <BR>
And I'm down on my luck<BR>
And I'm down on my luck <BR>
And I'm down on my luck<BR>
<BR>
Now I'm hiding on Thanber [2]<BR>
I'm a desperate man <BR>
Send lawyers, mercs and credits<BR>
The s***[3] has hit the fan <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
a fair use parody of:<BR>
Lawyers, Guns And Money<BR>
Written By Warren Zevon <BR>
c. 1978 Zevon Music/BMI<BR>
<BR>
[1] Yes stewards can be female, stewardess is too sexist for Traveller<BR>
and does not scan anyway.<BR>
<BR>
[2] If you don't know, look it up.<BR>
<BR>
[3] Lyrics bowdlerized to reflect Marcs stated wishes of keeping<BR>
Traveller clean.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 03:34:21 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: More Traveller Filk: Suzie Lighning<BR>
<BR>
Suzie Lightning [1]<BR>
[AHL 6417, you didn't really believe she was canceled did you] [2]<BR>
<BR>
She only fuels at giants<BR>
She's tired of jumping nowhere <BR>
She's in District Two Six Eight <BR>
Fighting in a black war<BR>
<BR>
Suzie Lightning <BR>
They named a world for her [3]<BR>
Suzie lightning <BR>
I need a ship from earth<BR>
<BR>
She's in Bowman Belt <BR>
She sends X messages home<BR>
Does she think of me? <BR>
I'm on Heroni<BR>
<BR>
Suzie Lightning <BR>
Takes no prisoners <BR>
Suzie Lightning<BR>
<BR>
No use crying about it <BR>
No use trying to hold on <BR>
She lights up the sky <BR>
Then she's gone<BR>
<BR>
She don't have time for love <BR>
She don't need me now <BR>
Can't she see I'm burning up<BR>
Burning down, burning out<BR>
<BR>
Suzie Lightning <BR>
They named a world for her<BR>
Suzie Lightning <BR>
I need a ship from earth <BR>
<BR>
TOP<BR>
<BR>
a fair use parody of: <BR>
Suzie Lightning <BR>
written by Warren Zevon<BR>
1991 Zevon Music <BR>
<BR>
[1] Yes I know it doesn't rhyme or scan perfectly,<BR>
neither did the original, deal with it.<BR>
<BR>
[2] CT Sup 5 Lightning Class Cruisers, p 7.<BR>
<BR>
[3] Or maybe the other way around, given how AHL's were named. <BR>
Apparently the Suzie High Lightning's crew included a large<BR>
number of members of the minor human race Homo Sapiens Val,<BR>
or Suzy's. Our singer deeply misses one of them and longs<BR>
for a girl from Earth to help him get over it. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 23:40:21 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Was RE: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I always liked the grav assault vehicle I did for MT (I'll be reposting it<BR>
> shortly) it carried a 500Mj Naval Fusion Gun as main armament. (I think I'll<BR>
> do a TNE version for my Banners Pocket Empire).<BR>
><BR>
> Antony<BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
Ouch....<BR>
<BR>
Ouch Ouch Ouch<BR>
<BR>
Thats a rating of 4 on the Jackie Chan Ouchometer....<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 23:44:59 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > In mail you write:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Mark Urbin, clearly a wannabe old-timer, wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >> I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being<BR>
> > on the net for<BR>
> > >> two years made you an old timer.<BR>
> > >> I've been on the Internet proper since 1988.  Compuserve for at<BR>
> > >> least four<BR>
> > >> prior to that...<BR>
> > >> Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
> > >> started and AOL<BR>
> > >> offered Internet access.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Youngsters today! The first web content I developed was for<BR>
> > a browser called<BR>
> > > Mosaic. Those were the days. None of those new-fangled HTML<BR>
> > editors, either.<BR>
> > > No way. It was either emacs, vi, or nothing.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I was on before both domain-style addressing of mail, and the "Great<BR>
> > Renaming" of the newsgroup hierachy. (81 or 82?).<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> I was on before this new-fangled 'electricity' thing. We couldn't include<BR>
> much content in those days...semaphore's notorious for it's lack of<BR>
> graphical support... :)<BR>
<BR>
and really low bandwith...OTOH it isn't binary....<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 09:40:14 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin writes:<BR>
>><Bruce Johnson><BR>
>>yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
>>"September sixth, 2000"<BR>
<BR>
	I say "the sixth of September, 2000," but usage varies here.<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, I practice what I preach.  I'm given to saying dates as<BR>
>"Seventy, Oh-two, twenty-one".  Now, this mostly this gets me funny looks<BR>
>from clerks and the like, but you will all be converted enventually! Mark<BR>
>my words!! BWAAHAHAHAAHAHAAH!!! *ahem* Thank you for your attention. <BR>
<BR>
	At least giving the date that way leaves no doubt about which is<BR>
	the month and which is the day.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:45:05 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> "Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > In mail you write:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > > Mark Urbin, clearly a wannabe old-timer, wrote:<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > >> I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being<BR>
> > > on the net for<BR>
> > > >> two years made you an old timer.<BR>
> > > >> I've been on the Internet proper since 1988.  Compuserve for at<BR>
> > > >> least four<BR>
> > > >> prior to that...<BR>
> > > >> Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
> > > >> started and AOL<BR>
> > > >> offered Internet access.<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > Youngsters today! The first web content I developed was for<BR>
> > > a browser called<BR>
> > > > Mosaic. Those were the days. None of those new-fangled HTML<BR>
> > > editors, either.<BR>
> > > > No way. It was either emacs, vi, or nothing.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > I was on before both domain-style addressing of mail, and <BR>
> the "Great<BR>
> > > Renaming" of the newsgroup hierachy. (81 or 82?).<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > I was on before this new-fangled 'electricity' thing. We <BR>
> couldn't include<BR>
> > much content in those days...semaphore's notorious for it's lack of<BR>
> > graphical support... :)<BR>
> <BR>
> and really low bandwith...OTOH it isn't binary....<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
...and with sufficient concentration you can achieve duplexing :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 21:53:40 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 7 September 2000 5:58 PM<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'<BR>
> Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > In mail you write:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Mark Urbin, clearly a wannabe old-timer, wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >> I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being<BR>
> > on the net for<BR>
> > >> two years made you an old timer.<BR>
> > >> I've been on the Internet proper since 1988.  Compuserve for at<BR>
> > >> least four<BR>
> > >> prior to that...<BR>
> > >> Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
> > >> started and AOL<BR>
> > >> offered Internet access.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Youngsters today! The first web content I developed was for<BR>
> > a browser called<BR>
> > > Mosaic. Those were the days. None of those new-fangled HTML<BR>
> > editors, either.<BR>
> > > No way. It was either emacs, vi, or nothing.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I was on before both domain-style addressing of mail, and the "Great<BR>
> > Renaming" of the newsgroup hierachy. (81 or 82?).<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> I was on before this new-fangled 'electricity' thing. We couldn't include<BR>
> much content in those days...semaphore's notorious for it's lack of<BR>
> graphical support... :)<BR>
<BR>
Huh I was on the web when it was using stone tablets and foot messenger<BR>
delivery systems. Not exactly fast or er reliable, hey nothings really<BR>
changed.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 21:53:37 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Was just re-reading Adventure 1 "The Kinunir" and I was wondering if a PC<BR>
party recovered this ship would the imperium allow them to keep it? Thought<BR>
anyone.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 07:25:50<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
At 10:58 AM 9/7/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I was on before this new-fangled 'electricity' thing. We couldn't include<BR>
>much content in those days...semaphore's notorious for it's lack of<BR>
>graphical support... :)<BR>
<BR>
Two words:<BR>
<BR>
Difference Engine.<BR>
<BR>
When we wanted to have flame wars, Molotov cocktails were used.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins<BR>
Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>
Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:38:15 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
> > <BR>
> > I thought the gratuitious name changes were a little <BR>
> annoying (for example,<BR>
> > priests now have spell domains instead of spheres)<BR>
> <BR>
> Does that make high-level priests "masters of their domains"? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
No, they become domain administrators :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 10:39:45 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Looking for FFE001 & FFE002<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/7/00 7:32:38 AM !!!First Boot!!!, tsculler@earthlink.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  just joined the mailing list.<BR>
 I'm looking for the "Traveller Classic Books" (001) by Far Future Enterprises<BR>
 (containing books 0-8 I believe)<BR>
 and<BR>
 "Traveller Supplements" (002) by the same company.  I believe this one has 13<BR>
 supplements in 1 volume.<BR>
 I've looked at local hobby shops around Las Vegas and I can't find them.<BR>
 Is there anywhere online that I can purchase these other than Ebay?<BR>
 <BR>
 Thanks, Tom. >><BR>
<BR>
there's a new hobby store on the west side at Spring Mountain and Rainbow, <BR>
called "Imagination". It's next to Kmart. I saw 002 on the shelf, so I asume <BR>
that the owners can get both for you. The other alternative is Triple J's on <BR>
Sandhill and Flamingo...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:44:02 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:58 AM 9/7/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I was on before this new-fangled 'electricity' thing. We <BR>
> couldn't include<BR>
> >much content in those days...semaphore's notorious for it's lack of<BR>
> >graphical support... :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Two words:<BR>
> <BR>
> Difference Engine.<BR>
> <BR>
> When we wanted to have flame wars, Molotov cocktails were used.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ancient email: 'Yes, we'll send the punch cards to you by velocipede<BR>
courier'<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 07:47:44 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:58 AM 9/7/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I was on before this new-fangled 'electricity' thing. We couldn't include<BR>
> >much content in those days...semaphore's notorious for it's lack of<BR>
> >graphical support... :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Two words:<BR>
> <BR>
> Difference Engine.<BR>
> <BR>
> When we wanted to have flame wars, Molotov cocktails were used.<BR>
<BR>
FEH! Ever try reassembling packets using an abacus? <BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:49:48 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: SD Mooney [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]<BR>
> Sent: 06 September 2000 23:10<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Judges Guild in fianancial trouble?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >Dom> *I* didn't start this discussion. I merely asked about <BR>
> someone else's<BR>
> > > comments that this would impact the Traveller Reprints.<BR>
> >Actually, I was responding to the thread, not laying blame or making<BR>
> >accusations. =)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Fair enough; I responded as you cited me.<BR>
> <BR>
> I wish rumours would have some substance before people post them :-(<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
You wish JG actually were in financial trouble? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 07:53:19 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> > > Actually, 'Sith of September, 2000' is how we would say it.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Aha! Now we know where the Dark Lords of the Sith come from!<BR>
> <BR>
> Or, more specific, _when_ they came from.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Right, and they were masters of their domain, or domain administrators or<BR>
something ;-) (wondering what MSCE electives fall under the Sith track<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 05:57:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Refuling from Stars<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> It occurred to me that at a sufficiently high tech level a<BR>
> starship should be able to refuel from a star. Obviously lower <BR>
> temperature and/or lower pressure stars would be easier to <BR>
> refuel from.<BR>
><BR>
> We know that (some) canonical Traveller starships can refuel<BR>
> from gas giants. Many gas giants give off large amounts of<BR>
> radiation. Therefore traveller ships must have some ability<BR>
> to protect their crews from this radiation. How much more<BR>
> radiation protection do you need to refuel from a star?<BR>
> If the radiation levels are too high for a living crew<BR>
> can you do it with a robotic crew?<BR>
<BR>
The radiation (the kind that produces radiation sickness) isn't the<BR>
problem. It's the *heat*...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:00:06 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>
> Was just re-reading Adventure 1 "The Kinunir" and I was wondering if a PC<BR>
> party recovered this ship would the imperium allow them to keep it? Thought<BR>
> anyone.<BR>
<BR>
Certainly not!<BR>
<BR>
The Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" is pretty darn pathetic by military <BR>
standards, but it would make an ideal pirate ship, particularly since<BR>
it is more than capable of eating the typical Imperial anti-piracy<BR>
vessel (the Gazelle-class close escort) for breakfast.  Private citizens<BR>
would have no "legitimate" uses for such a ship.<BR>
<BR>
The player characters' only hope of hanging on to a salvaged<BR>
Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" would be to sneak it across the border,<BR>
and cut a deal of some kind with a cooperative foreign government.<BR>
Bringing the ship back into the Imperium (even with suitable papers)<BR>
would be *extremely* risky.<BR>
                                                          - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:00:09 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Copyrights<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/6/00 3:04:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Re: Copyrights<BR>
>  <BR>
<BR>
>   <BR>
>  Bryan,<BR>
>  <BR>
>  I thought Gamelords *was* the Keith Brothers. My impression was that<BR>
>  Marischal was the design side and Gamelords was the publishing side.  If<BR>
>  that is so, then contacting William Keith would be the way to go.  <BR>
<BR>
No. Andrew owned Marischal, I can't remember offhand who owned Gamelords <BR>
though. Marischal printed 2-4 short adventures.<BR>
<BR>
>  As for Seeker, I don't know. I have a vague recollection that Sanger<BR>
>  owned those copyrights, through his purchase of DGP, but I could be<BR>
>  misremembering or just plain wrong about that.<BR>
  <BR>
As for Seeker I haven't heard any definite proof that Roger bought them. The <BR>
only 'reliable' info I have is that Seeker bought FASA's rights (and I <BR>
haven't had any secondary confirmation on that yet. I also admit I haven't <BR>
tried hard yet because of too many others things to do and no personal <BR>
scanner yet).<BR>
I haven't tried asking Roger if he bought Seeker yet either (same deal, lack <BR>
of time, I have enough other permissions to keep me busy even if RL didn't <BR>
interfere).<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 16:18:03 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> > > > Actually, 'Sith of September, 2000' is how we would say it.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > Aha! Now we know where the Dark Lords of the Sith come from!<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Or, more specific, _when_ they came from.<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> Right, and they were masters of their domain, or domain <BR>
> administrators or<BR>
> something ;-) (wondering what MSCE electives fall under the Sith track<BR>
> ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The elective exams are identical for all MCSEs. No funny, but it is true :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3016<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3017</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 7 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3017<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
New Filk:  The Soldier's Lament<BR>
Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
Re: Killing a System<BR>
Re: Refuling from Stars<BR>
RE: Refuling from Stars<BR>
Re: Refuling from Stars<BR>
OT Challenge Magazine<BR>
RE: Refuling from Stars<BR>
[BITS] Periodicals Bibliography for North America<BR>
Archaic measurements (getting OT)<BR>
re:  Traveller Filk<BR>
re: : Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya <BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
re: More Traveller Filk: Lawyers, Mercs, and Credits<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3013<BR>
Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
Re: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
Warren Zevon meets Traveller, the horror continues<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 15:39:42 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:12:16 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Except that there *are* no "British Billion"-aires. Of *any* Nationality!<BR>
<BR>
Not true.  Masayoshi Son (owner of Yahoo) has a fortune worth<BR>
2,058,000,000,000 Japanese Yen.  The media baron Silvio Berlusconi is<BR>
worth 28,608,000,000,000 Italian Lire... (figures courtesy of<BR>
askjeeves.com).<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  "Payment for this job will be Cr500,000"<BR>
Later:  "_Imperial_ credits?  I never said the payment would be in<BR>
Imperial credits, did I?!  Let me see, at the current exchange rate<BR>
between the Imperial and the Utolander credit, your payment would be<BR>
worth Cr3,256.57 in Imperial currency..."<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 07:28:55<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
<BR>
At 08:38 PM 9/6/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At the risk of sounding dead smug, I picked that up for 1.50 (that's one<BR>
>pound fifty, in case of dollar sign creep) at Gencon over the weekend.<BR>
>(Okay, more reaslistically about 101.50 after figuring in convention<BR>
>costs...)<BR>
<BR>
I bought the Starship Operator Manual in an online auction for about $25.<BR>
The day after it arrived, we were at the FLGS and Kirsten pulls a mint copy<BR>
of the same book off the used shelf.  Price?  $1.  If looks could kill...<BR>
I had justifyied the auction price with the "it's a very rare book" line.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, I bought that one too...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  <BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Alle preisen den Pinguinherrscher!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 07:31:29<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
At 09:53 PM 9/7/2000 +0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Was just re-reading Adventure 1 "The Kinunir" and I was wondering if a PC<BR>
>party recovered this ship would the imperium allow them to keep it? Thought<BR>
>anyone.<BR>
<BR>
No.  The ship is still the property of the Imperial Navy, and is just<BR>
listed as "Missing, presumed lost."<BR>
<BR>
If the PC's showed up in the Kinunir, they'd be given nice shiny plaques, a<BR>
hearty handshake, and a boot out the door.<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 08:05:21<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: New Filk:  The Soldier's Lament<BR>
<BR>
The Trooper's Lament<BR>
<BR>
TTTO: "The Drinking Song"<BR>
by Moxy Fruvous<BR>
<BR>
And the band played on<BR>
As the ships in orbit burned<BR>
Drunk on the lawn under Gram's double dawn<BR>
My rest I've finally earned<BR>
<BR>
He was a rock, to the end, a tower of strength<BR>
I was proud to be his friend<BR>
We lived by a trick for the sweet taste of victory<BR>
Swore that we'd fight to the end<BR>
And we'd drink, two soldiers who would live forever<BR>
The world spread out for us<BR>
We learned to fire lasers, saw some far places<BR>
Never took life serious<BR>
<BR>
And the band played on<BR>
As the ships in orbit burned<BR>
Drunk on the lawn under Gram's double dawn<BR>
My rest I've finally earned<BR>
<BR>
Between fights, he said "We're like ants on a hill"<BR>
Living out our short lives<BR>
Rushing around, standing up, falling down<BR>
Till we no longer can open our eyes<BR>
And we'd drink, ever notice how drinking's like war?<BR>
Cup o' troops o'er the gums<BR>
To the end of our health, a campaign 'gainst myself<BR>
Armed with bourbons and vodkas and rums<BR>
<BR>
And the band played on<BR>
As the ships in orbit burned<BR>
Drunk on the lawn under Gram's double dawn<BR>
My rest I've finally earned<BR>
<BR>
They're dropping bombs, we're poised on the edge of disaster<BR>
Whether it's right or it's wrong<BR>
We picked up our gear, tried to swallow our fear<BR>
Sang a few bars of some pretty old song:<BR>
	Irene goodnight, Irene goodnight<BR>
	Goodnight Irene, goodnight Irene<BR>
	I'll see you in my dreams<BR>
Oh to dream, of those days before war became sour<BR>
Now revenge hammers down<BR>
We'd beaten the best, but our final test<BR>
Will come in my shattered hometown<BR>
<BR>
And the band played on<BR>
As the ships in orbit burned<BR>
Drunk on the lawn under Gram's double dawn<BR>
My rest I've finally earned<BR>
<BR>
Come the day, and the morning is filled with bright traces<BR>
Jump troops dropping in<BR>
So we moved to position to support the division<BR>
Though we all knew we just couldn't win<BR>
He was a rock, went straight to his own Armageddon<BR>
Charging out once again<BR>
As the arty came in, never losing his grin<BR>
He died as he lived, a Sword Worlder man<BR>
<BR>
And the band played on<BR>
As the ships in orbit burned<BR>
Drunk on the lawn under Gram's double dawn<BR>
My rest I've finally earned<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Notes:  If you don't know the song, it's a slow beat and resembles Waltzing<BR>
Matilda sung on downers.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
Yfirmaur, Konunglegur Gramm Floti<BR>
Srstakur Vitsmunir jnusta<BR>
Sameina Her: Rm, Sver Verld Sambandsmyndun<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 07:38:07<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Vilani Ranks<BR>
<BR>
At 07:12 PM 9/6/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Ok.  Now what we need is the slang and/or<BR>
>shortened forms for casual conversation,<BR>
>assuming that is possible for Vilani.<BR>
<BR>
I would also assume that "Ishi" by itself would be used the way modern<BR>
soldier use the term C.O.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:09:45 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Not even close. You'd need more[1] than 1 nuke per square km of<BR>
> "surface".  And a gas giant has *billions* of sq. km...<BR>
<BR>
Well, if you could focus a nuclear damper in such a way as to cause fusion at<BR>
room temperature you can probably blow up a gas giant.  Or just about any <BR>
planet with oceans, for that matter ;).  If you can compress it enough, it<BR>
will superheat and blow up (the amount of energy required for such compression<BR>
is almost certainly greater than the amount to turn the gas giant into an<BR>
expanding cloud of gas, however).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 09:24:23 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Refuling from Stars<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
 <BR>
> The radiation (the kind that produces radiation sickness) isn't the<BR>
> problem. It's the *heat*...<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
But it's a _dry_ heat...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:34:19 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Refuling from Stars<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
>  <BR>
> > The radiation (the kind that produces radiation sickness) isn't the<BR>
> > problem. It's the *heat*...<BR>
> > <BR>
<BR>
What if you were to shunt all the heat around to one part of the ship, then<BR>
refrigerate using a high powered laser. You *only* have to make the part<BR>
you're refrigerating hotter than the chromosphere...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:44:55 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Refuling from Stars<BR>
<BR>
Jones, Dean writes:<BR>
<BR>
> What if you were to shunt all the heat around to one part of the ship, then<BR>
> refrigerate using a high powered laser. You *only* have to make the part<BR>
> you're refrigerating hotter than the chromosphere...<BR>
<BR>
Ah yes, the fine myth of laser cooling.  Doesn't work, at least to dump heat.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:47:27 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: OT Challenge Magazine<BR>
<BR>
I am looking for copies of Challenge Magazine for my files/archives. I need <BR>
issues 70, 71, and 74.<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone have some spares?<BR>
<BR>
Marc Miller<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:48:52 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Refuling from Stars<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Jones, Dean writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > What if you were to shunt all the heat around to one part <BR>
> of the ship, then<BR>
> > refrigerate using a high powered laser. You *only* have to <BR>
> make the part<BR>
> > you're refrigerating hotter than the chromosphere...<BR>
> <BR>
> Ah yes, the fine myth of laser cooling.  Doesn't work, at <BR>
> least to dump heat.<BR>
<BR>
Oh well, most players (mine anyway) won't know that.  :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 23:56:23 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: [BITS] Periodicals Bibliography for North America<BR>
<BR>
BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>
http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
'The Periodicals Bibliography' by Timothy Collinson.<BR>
<BR>
This is just a note to let you all know that Steve Jackson Games Inc <BR>
has placed an order for the latest BITS release 'The Periodicals <BR>
Bibliography'. This should be available via Warehouse 23.<BR>
<BR>
We anticipate the copies reaching the USA in about three weeks time <BR>
(we have to complete the print run, fold and staple). Format is A4 as <BR>
'The Traveller Bibliography'.<BR>
<BR>
UK and European residents are advised to contact BITS directly.<BR>
<BR>
Dom (BITS Webmaster)<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS, CORE and their respective logos are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:54:35 -0700 <BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Archaic measurements (getting OT)<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
<snippage><BR>
><BR>
>You forgot the following:<BR>
><BR>
>finger (??)<BR>
>hand (4 inches)<BR>
>Span (6 inches) (from end of thumb to little finger*)<BR>
>cubit (18 inches) (from fingertip to elbow*)<BR>
>ell (45 inches) (from fingertip to opposite shoulder*)<BR>
>fathom (6 feet) (from finertip to opposite fingertip*)<BR>
><BR>
>* with arm/fingers spread.<BR>
<BR>
	My mother, an avid horseman (woman? person?) regularly uses "hands"<BR>
in conversation, though the use of "fingers" (4 fingers to the hand) has<BR>
been dropped - a hand is usually divided into halves and any difference is<BR>
usually rounded out.  Only rarely do I hear of a horse described as being<BR>
"16 and a quarter hands high."<BR>
	As for spans and cubits, they are still remarkably useful.  Just the<BR>
other day I measured some furnature to see if it would fit in someone's<BR>
office using a form of measurement that dates back to the building of the<BR>
pyramids at the very least.  (Besides, it is always amusing to see the<BR>
expressions in people's faces when you describe a desk as "Three cubits long<BR>
and a cubit and a span wide")<BR>
	ObTrav....well, someone already sugested old texts in weird<BR>
measuring systems, but errors in depth/altitude could really put players on<BR>
a different part of the map. (my 'personal fathom' is closer to 6.5 feet or<BR>
more...long arms)<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - Don't blame them; they just pay me, they don't tell me what to<BR>
think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:57:56 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re:  Traveller Filk<BR>
<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
"Vargr of Lunion"<BR>
<BR>
Bravo! Bravo!  I'm going to put on Warren Zevon after I finish reading the<BR>
TML. Oh, hell, I'll put him on now.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:57:58 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re: : Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya <BR>
<BR>
>From: Luther Martin <lwmarti@pacbell.net><BR>
<BR>
I see that Luther really wants to use the TL 5 miniatures he recently<BR>
acquired.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:58:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
><BR>
>I was on before this new-fangled 'electricity' thing. We couldn't include<BR>
>much content in those days...semaphore's notorious for it's lack of<BR>
>graphical support... :)<BR>
<BR>
Oh, yeah?  Well I was on before there was light to see semaphore with.<BR>
Everything was just void and black then.<BR>
<BR>
We had to use drums.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:58:01 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re: More Traveller Filk: Lawyers, Mercs, and Credits<BR>
<BR>
>From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
That's a good version.  Here is another verse, based on a verse by a Boise,<BR>
Idaho group from teh early 1980s called DeTours, who covered some Warren<BR>
Zevon songs:<BR>
<BR>
There are armies on Esalin<BR>
These are desperate men<BR>
They're gonna kick those Joeys' teeth in<BR>
Just like we did in eleven ten<BR>
<BR>
DeTours' version (remember this is 1982 or so):<BR>
<BR>
There are armies in Honduras<BR>
These are desperate men<BR>
[they're saying]<BR>
"We're gonna kick those commies' asses<BR>
"Just like we did in Vietnam"<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:08:02 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
> ><BR>
> >I was on before this new-fangled 'electricity' thing. We <BR>
> couldn't include<BR>
> >much content in those days...semaphore's notorious for it's lack of<BR>
> >graphical support... :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh, yeah?  Well I was on before there was light to see semaphore with.<BR>
> Everything was just void and black then.<BR>
> <BR>
> We had to use drums.<BR>
<BR>
So the Big Bang was a misplaced packet?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 10:27:23 -0700<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 9/7/00 8:00 AM, john.raynor@yale.edu issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> The player characters' only hope of hanging on to a salvaged<BR>
> Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" would be to sneak it across the border,<BR>
> and cut a deal of some kind with a cooperative foreign government.<BR>
<BR>
The only way I can see this working is if they offered to work as<BR>
privateers. Even then, I'd advise they never let themselves be in a position<BR>
someone could take the ship from them, like letting anyone onboard. Handle<BR>
communications (*heavily* encrypted) at a distance, stay outside the 100d<BR>
Jump Limit, etc. Pesonally I'd try and get rid of the ship ASAP, way too<BR>
high profile for my tastes. Or head for the Vargr Extants and live a<BR>
corsairs life. That might make an interesting campaign.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:49:38 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
> Via electronic medium on 9/7/00 8:00 AM, john.raynor@yale.edu issued forth:<BR>
> <BR>
> > The player characters' only hope of hanging on to a salvaged<BR>
> > Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" would be to sneak it across the border,<BR>
> > and cut a deal of some kind with a cooperative foreign government.<BR>
> <BR>
> The only way I can see this working is if they offered to work as<BR>
> privateers. Even then, I'd advise they never let themselves be in a position<BR>
> someone could take the ship from them, like letting anyone onboard. Handle<BR>
> communications (*heavily* encrypted) at a distance, stay outside the 100d<BR>
> Jump Limit, etc. Pesonally I'd try and get rid of the ship ASAP, way too<BR>
> high profile for my tastes. Or head for the Vargr Extants and live a<BR>
> corsairs life. That might make an interesting campaign.<BR>
<BR>
This is how I envisioned the lives of would-be Kinunir-owners going, too.<BR>
Actually, on second thought, a Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" wouldn't even<BR>
be *that* good as a pirate ship, since it doesn't really have enough cargo<BR>
space to carry enough loot to making piracy worthwhile. For over-powering<BR>
merchant ships with a 1-G acceleration and a couple of turrets, it's<BR>
overkill.  If I were in those player characters' shoes (and couldn't turn<BR>
the darn thing in to the navy for a reward) I'd get it barely operational,<BR>
sneak across the Imperial border, and stash it out in the Oort cloud of<BR>
some sparsely populated and rarely visited system (or perhaps even deep in<BR>
interstellar space).  It's just too hot for routine use, but under<BR>
*extreme* circumstances, a slightly-obsolete third-tier naval vessel might<BR>
come in handy...<BR>
                                                              - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 11:21:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 9/7/00 10:49 AM, john.raynor@yale.edu issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, on second thought, a Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" wouldn't even<BR>
> be *that* good as a pirate ship, since it doesn't really have enough cargo<BR>
> space to carry enough loot to making piracy worthwhile.<BR>
<BR>
You need some "booty craft", any old cargo haulers will do.<BR>
<BR>
> For over-powering merchant ships with a 1-G acceleration and a couple of<BR>
> turrets, it's overkill.<BR>
<BR>
I think with this ship you could go for some juicier targets (like other<BR>
corsairs).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 19:15:21 +0100<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3013<BR>
<BR>
>I finally got around to using H&E, and I'm having some problems. I wonder<BR>
>if anyone around here can help me out....(he says, with a fair amount of<BR>
>certainty.)<BR>
<BR>
Straight from the horsers mouth. (Or should that be programmers).<BR>
<BR>
>H&E is far superior to Galactic in terms of detail that can be output for<BR>
>each system. This is a Very Good Thing in terms of writing up background,<BR>
>although a bad thing if you're as short on HD space as me (each system<BR>
>seems to take up about a meg). On the flipside, Galactic is a lot easier to<BR>
>navigate. That's perhaps not so important during a game, but when you're<BR>
>trying to flick between worlds to work out how they interact it's a bummer.<BR>
<BR>
I thought the interface worked pretty well?<BR>
<BR>
>What I want to do is generate certain details for a bunch of worlds (about<BR>
>two subsectors of worlds in the Strephon corner of Corridor sector), write<BR>
>up the background for the area so it makes sense, then collapse the worlds<BR>
>and see what I've got afterwards, which I'll then develop into a campaign<BR>
>area (having gotten a little bored with the simplistic nature of the<BR>
>Korinall Cluster, and given up on the campaign there).<BR>
<BR>
>For each system I want UWP of each world, maps only of certain worlds of<BR>
>interest (mainworld, hi-pop), climate details and population details. I<BR>
>don't want to generate encounter tables, cargo plots etc, as I just don't<BR>
>have forty megs of spare hard drive. Besides, on a P-233 it's running<BR>
>pretty slowly already.<BR>
<BR>
>Is this possible, and if so how should I go about it?<BR>
<BR>
You can select the level of detail the generation provides using the<BR>
following menu tree:-<BR>
<BR>
Options>Display<BR>
<BR>
or<BR>
<BR>
Options>Generate<BR>
<BR>
However, you can't pick and choose the worlds that are generated within a<BR>
system.<BR>
<BR>
However, you can select between a) Mainworld only; and b) All Worlds in<BR>
System.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but your sailing pretty close to the wind as far as minimum specs are<BR>
concerned.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 08:41:45 +0100<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
>"Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
<BR>
Most people with half a brain (or at least a working knowlege of 'billinger'<BR>
 - a local dialect favoured by the people of Billinge in times gone by*) would <BR>
know that a gibbet is a unit of volume (especially when used re alchohol), <BR>
and that 'scrumly' is a fermented drink made from potato & apple mash<BR>
frequently home made by miners (in the same dialect). <BR>
<BR>
I could only see the above being grammatically correct if switch around<BR>
the words to make "arf a gibbet o' scrumly' pas th'auld chap"<BR>
<BR>
Matt Bond:<BR>
And re your ending, nobody but a 'shandy drinking southern poofter' would<BR>
use 'toodle pip' as a farewell. <BR>
<BR>
Arl Sithee,<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
*(Anyone want to argue this point? Dou'st owt Billingers on't'list?) Point to <BR>
you none northern english UK types: Billinge was (and is) the battlefield of choice<BR>
for the neighbouring towns of St Helens (on't'sunny side o'th'ill) and Wigan,<BR>
(wheer them et'allt'pies!)... I could go on, but you probably wish I wouldn't!....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:35:55 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Via electronic medium on 9/7/00 10:49 AM, john.raynor@yale.edu issued forth:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Actually, on second thought, a Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" wouldn't even<BR>
> > be *that* good as a pirate ship, since it doesn't really have enough cargo<BR>
> > space to carry enough loot to making piracy worthwhile.<BR>
> <BR>
> You need some "booty craft", any old cargo haulers will do.<BR>
> <BR>
"booty craft"?  y'all don't EVEN wanna know what went thru my head....<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 19:45:11 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
Dom frothed, from his insane T4-lovin' mouth:<BR>
> Well, we've managed to get Nick to start saying nice things about T4<BR>
> these days, and he's just confessed to buying the Rebellion<BR>
> Sourcebook....<BR>
<BR>
Alright, so maybe I said that, and maybe there were witnesses, but I was<BR>
young, innocent, naieve. And I was drunk. In fact, I was clinically dead at<BR>
the time of making that statement.*<BR>
<BR>
My new campaign setting's in Corridor sector (in the bit that isn't a<BR>
corridor) after collapse. There's a really interesting cluster of worlds<BR>
around Tahspeck (Corridor-2335) that shows great promise.<BR>
<BR>
There's a cluster of worlds on the very edge of the Great Rift with a TL-1,<BR>
four TL-6/7, two TL-9, a TL-10 and a TL-13 world, plus a TL-13 and a TL-15<BR>
airless world which won't survive Collapse.<BR>
<BR>
If the TL-10 world (Tahspeck) gets a lucky escape and survives at TL-9,<BR>
then we'll have a nice story of uplift using low tech. Mmm....huge blocky<BR>
starships with Jump-1 and fusion rockets. Vast Zeppelins lifting cargo....<BR>
Aircraft carriers converted to launch TAC shuttles with turboramrocket<BR>
engines.... TL-13 was far too easy.<BR>
<BR>
I suspect this one's going to be fun.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
+++<BR>
*I've decided that enough people in BITS like T4 already, so I'm switching<BR>
my efforts back to TNE.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 20:34:56 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
<BR>
At 07:28 07.09.00 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>At 08:38 PM 9/6/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >At the risk of sounding dead smug, I picked that up for 1.50 (that's one<BR>
> >pound fifty, in case of dollar sign creep) at Gencon over the weekend.<BR>
> >(Okay, more reaslistically about 101.50 after figuring in convention<BR>
> >costs...)<BR>
><BR>
>I bought the Starship Operator Manual in an online auction for about $25.<BR>
>The day after it arrived, we were at the FLGS and Kirsten pulls a mint copy<BR>
>of the same book off the used shelf.  Price?  $1.  If looks could kill...<BR>
>I had justifyied the auction price with the "it's a very rare book" line.<BR>
><BR>
>Of course, I bought that one too...<BR>
<BR>
As would any one of us ;-)<BR>
Cant have a perfectly good book standing around in a shop like that.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 11:57:12 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Warren Zevon meets Traveller, the horror continues<BR>
<BR>
  Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner<BR>
<BR>
    (to the tune of "Roland the Headless Thomson Gunner"<BR>
     by Warren Zevon)<BR>
<BR>
Krzark was a Vargr, from the core end of the Main,<BR>
With a fusion fun for hire and an appetite for fame<BR>
The deal was made on Dinom, in a crowded starport bar<BR>
He caught a tramp to Ruie, to join the bloody war.<BR>
<BR>
His comp'ny fought beside him, Eneri and the rest;<BR>
But of all the fusion gunners Krzark was the best.<BR>
So the intel branch decided they wanted Krzark dead;<BR>
That ishugikik Eneri blew off Krzark's head.<BR>
<BR>
  Krzark the headless fusion gunner<BR>
  Efate's bravest son;<BR>
  You can still see his headless body loping through the night<BR>
  In the plasma light of Krzark's fusion gun<BR>
  In the plasma light of Krzark's fusion gun.<BR>
<BR>
Krzark stalked the Marches for the man who done him in;<BR>
He found him on Regina, in the downport, drinking gin<BR>
Krzark aimed his fusion gun, he didn't make a sound;<BR>
But he vaporized Eneri, and a good chunk of the ground.<BR>
<BR>
  Krzark the fusion gunner<BR>
  Krzark the fusion gunner<BR>
<BR>
The eternal fusion gunner, on a ticket of his own<BR>
Now it's ten years later, but he still patrols alone;<BR>
On Corfu, Keng, and Wypoc, on Jewell and Roup and Hefry --<BR>
<BR>
  Ine Givar heard the roar of Krzark's fusion gun<BR>
  And bought it.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3017<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3018</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/7/00 2:17:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 7 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3018<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Kinunir<BR>
RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Underword goes Underseas<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
Re: Refuling from Stars<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: Warren Zevon meets Traveller, the horror continues<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: Rumors<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
: Re: Rapira-D<BR>
Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
Re: Killing a System<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: Killing a System<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:05:31 -0700<BR>
From: Thing <gduke@kendaco.telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
>===== Original Message From traveller@lists.imagiconline.com =====<BR>
<BR>
>> You need some "booty craft", any old cargo haulers will do.<BR>
>><BR>
>"booty craft"?  y'all don't EVEN wanna know what went thru my head....<BR>
<BR>
You and me both.  Of course I was only thinking of a gilded bordello class <BR>
yacht myself.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
ThingUnderTheStairs.<BR>
=====================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:38:22 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I don't _care_ what type of game T5 turns out to be. As<BR>
long as it arrives, works, is Traveller (proper) and has less typos<BR>
and errata that T4. Go for it Marc!<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> Jones, Dean<BR>
> Sent: 07 September 2000 10:25<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'<BR>
> Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > .<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > But now this has gone *waaayyyy* off Traveller.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Unless T5 becomes a d20 game, that is ... EEEEEEEKKK!!! ;-)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > What!!! T5 is not going to be a d20 game! But...but.... <sob><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Not that I'm suggesting that T5 should be a D20 game, but making it<BR>
> compatable/producing a D20 mechanic add on book would<BR>
> probably encourage<BR>
> newbies into the game. Look at the increased number of<BR>
> Traveller players<BR>
> since SJG got the licence for GURPS. Still, that kinda<BR>
> thing is all up to<BR>
> Marc.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:34:17 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
Ahhhh, Zane - Gopherspace.....remember Veronica?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
> Sent: 07 September 2000 04:43<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Mark Urbin, clearly a wannabe old-timer, wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that <BR>
> being on the net for<BR>
> > > two years made you an old timer.<BR>
> > > I've been on the Internet proper since 1988.  Compuserve for at<BR>
> > > least four<BR>
> > > prior to that...<BR>
> > > Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
> > > started and AOL<BR>
> > > offered Internet access.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Youngsters today! The first web content I developed was <BR>
> for a browser called<BR>
> > Mosaic. Those were the days. None of those new-fangled <BR>
> HTML editors, either.<BR>
> > No way. It was either emacs, vi, or nothing.<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> One word.  Gopherspace. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 20:06:43 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
> Matt Bond:<BR>
> And re your ending, nobody but a 'shandy drinking southern poofter' would<BR>
> use 'toodle pip' as a farewell. <BR>
> <BR>
> Arl Sithee,<BR>
> <BR>
> Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Aye, 'appen, tha 'noz<BR>
<BR>
Matt <BR>
(I say! Steady on! Top hole, what, what! <g>)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 12:08:23 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
I stand in awe. Either I <BR>
<BR>
A) coincidentally posted almost grammatic gibberish <BR>
<BR>
B) I'm channeling some long-ago billinger ancestor.<BR>
<BR>
C) any given gibberish probably means something in an obscure English<BR>
dialect.<BR>
<BR>
Long ago, I read that England had some huge number, like 200, distinct<BR>
dialects, of which a large number were mutually incomrehensible.<BR>
<BR>
While in the modern age of radio and teevee many if not most of them<BR>
have died out, are many still around? Are there, foex, B'billinger'<BR>
clubs where people learn to speak these old dialect and/or try to keep<BR>
them alive?<BR>
<BR>
oBTrav Given that galanglic is likely a mongrel language, derived from a<BR>
pidgin along the line, and surviving a 100 year Long Night, are there<BR>
likely to be many different dialects still around, even after almost<BR>
1200 years of the Imperium?  <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Bruce<BR>
> <BR>
> >"Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
> <BR>
> Most people with half a brain (or at least a working knowlege of 'billinger'<BR>
>  - a local dialect favoured by the people of Billinge in times gone by*) would<BR>
> know that a gibbet is a unit of volume (especially when used re alchohol),<BR>
> and that 'scrumly' is a fermented drink made from potato & apple mash<BR>
> frequently home made by miners (in the same dialect).<BR>
> <BR>
> I could only see the above being grammatically correct if switch around<BR>
> the words to make "arf a gibbet o' scrumly' pas th'auld chap"<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:09:05 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/7/00 3:01:46 PM !!!First Boot!!!, john.raynor@yale.edu <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< The player characters' only hope of hanging on to a salvaged<BR>
 Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" would be to sneak it across the border,<BR>
 and cut a deal of some kind with a cooperative foreign government.<BR>
 Bringing the ship back into the Imperium (even with suitable papers)<BR>
 would be *extremely* risky. >><BR>
<BR>
There's another possibility: strip her of her armament (except sandcasters) <BR>
like the AHL's sold as bulk freighters to some megacorps. The only two <BR>
problems I can see is 1) ethically challenged PC's sneaking the weapons back <BR>
onboard, and 2) PC's are not a megacorp....:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:14:07 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/7/00 3:52:38 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< If the PC's showed up in the Kinunir, they'd be given nice shiny plaques, a<BR>
 hearty handshake, and a boot out the door. >><BR>
<BR>
what about salvage rights?...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:22:05 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:<BR>
> In a message dated 9/7/00 3:01:46 PM !!!First Boot!!!, john.raynor@yale.edu<BR>
>  writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << The player characters' only hope of hanging on to a salvaged<BR>
>  Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" would be to sneak it across the border,<BR>
>  and cut a deal of some kind with a cooperative foreign government.<BR>
>  Bringing the ship back into the Imperium (even with suitable papers)<BR>
>  would be *extremely* risky. >><BR>
> <BR>
> There's another possibility: strip her of her armament (except sandcasters)<BR>
>  like the AHL's sold as bulk freighters to some megacorps. The only two <BR>
> problems I can see is 1) ethically challenged PC's sneaking the weapons<BR>
> back  onboard, and 2) PC's are not a megacorp....:-)<BR>
<BR>
Problem with that is that the Imperium still technically owns the ship.<BR>
<BR>
The proper thing for an ethically challenged PC to do it strip the Kinunir<BR>
for parts.  This is particularly useful if it's one of the Kinunirs with<BR>
a black globe generator ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 15:27:50 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
http://www.foxnews.com/world/090700/colombia_sub.sml<BR>
<BR>
Columbian Drug gangs were building a sub...<BR>
<BR>
Plenty of grist for the GM's mill.<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 15:40:52 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
John P. Raynor writes:<BR>
>>Was just re-reading Adventure 1 "The Kinunir" and I was wondering if a PC<BR>
>>party recovered this ship would the imperium allow them to keep it? Thought<BR>
>>anyone.<BR>
>Certainly not!<BR>
>The Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" is pretty darn pathetic by military <BR>
>standards, but it would make an ideal pirate ship, particularly since<BR>
>it is more than capable of eating the typical Imperial anti-piracy<BR>
>vessel (the Gazelle-class close escort) for breakfast.  Private citizens<BR>
>would have no "legitimate" uses for such a ship.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	How about picking up a contract to hunt pirates?  Rent your services<BR>
	to one or more wealthy low-TL worlds that need a mercenary navy.<BR>
	There might be a couple of "legitimate" niche jobs for such a vessel.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 12:46:41 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
How do they _possibly_ think they'd be able to sneak a 100 foot sub<BR>
close enough to the american coastline to unload the cargo?<BR>
<BR>
I mean an attack sub would make sushi out of them very quickly, not to<BR>
_mention_ what our surface and air-based ASW folks could do to them.<BR>
<BR>
Trying to use a sub for smuggling is sort of like trying to use an ICBM<BR>
for rapid package delivery...you're going to trigger a hell of a lot<BR>
higher level of response than a Coasties cutter and the US DOJ.<BR>
<BR>
"Hey, Pablo! I got an idea! Lets stop looking like mere drug smugglers<BR>
and act like a terrorist threat, maybe armed with nukes!!"<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/090700/colombia_sub.sml<BR>
> <BR>
> Columbian Drug gangs were building a sub...<BR>
> <BR>
> Plenty of grist for the GM's mill.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:27:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Refuling from Stars<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>  <BR>
>>> The radiation (the kind that produces radiation sickness) isn't the<BR>
>>> problem. It's the *heat*...<BR>
><BR>
> What if you were to shunt all the heat around to one part of the ship, then<BR>
> refrigerate using a high powered laser. You *only* have to make the part<BR>
> you're refrigerating hotter than the chromosphere...<BR>
<BR>
Contrary to David Brin in Sundiver, you *can't* use a laser to get rid<BR>
of heat. Laser beams are *low* entropy. Heat is *high* entropy. So,<BR>
since the total entropy of the system has to increase, the laser will<BR>
only make the ship *hotter*. (capsule description, details glossed over).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:33:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> At 10:58 AM 9/7/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>>I was on before this new-fangled 'electricity' thing. We couldn't include<BR>
>>>much content in those days...semaphore's notorious for it's lack of<BR>
>>>graphical support... :)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Two words:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Difference Engine.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> When we wanted to have flame wars, Molotov cocktails were used.<BR>
><BR>
> FEH! Ever try reassembling packets using an abacus? <BR>
<BR>
No, but I've read paper tape (both 5 and 8-level) and punch cards by<BR>
hand. <BR>
<BR>
(go ahead. Be silly. Just realize that some of as are *serious* about<BR>
having done this "old-timer" stuff...)<BR>
<BR>
<silly><BR>
Who do you think invented cunieform? Back then a "packet driver" was<BR>
the guy herding along a mule loaded with clay tablets!<BR>
</silly><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:13:09 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Warren Zevon meets Traveller, the horror continues<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Craig Berry" <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 11:57 AM<BR>
Subject: Warren Zevon meets Traveller, the horror continues<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>   Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner<BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
Zevon seems to be a great mine for trav filks.<BR>
<BR>
What next?  "psionical boy" ?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:15:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> oBTrav Given that galanglic is likely a mongrel language, derived from a<BR>
> pidgin along the line, and surviving a 100 year Long Night, are there<BR>
> likely to be many different dialects still around, even after almost<BR>
> 1200 years of the Imperium?  <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
See the notes on the Autheticists in "Rim of Fire"<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:17:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Mark Urbin" <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 12:27 PM<BR>
Subject: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> http://www.foxnews.com/world/090700/colombia_sub.sml<BR>
><BR>
> Columbian Drug gangs were building a sub...<BR>
><BR>
> Plenty of grist for the GM's mill.<BR>
<BR>
With all that drug money, I wonder why they just didn't buy one from US<BR>
Subs?<BR>
<BR>
http://www.ussubs.com<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:55:49 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
At 23:32 -0400 6/9/00, "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> > Actually, 'Sith of September, 2000' is how we would say it.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Dom<BR>
><BR>
>Does Darth Gates know?<BR>
<BR>
Yes. This was subliminally implanted when I ran 'The Imperium Strikes Back'.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:59:59 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Rumors<BR>
<BR>
At 5:21 -0400 7/9/00, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> > I wish rumours would have some substance before people post them :-(<BR>
><BR>
>The truth content of rumors varies between 0 and 0.01%<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure the hit rate in 'The Kinunir' or 'Twilight's Peak' was <BR>
better than that...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:01:51 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
At 5:21 -0400 7/9/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
> > Actually, 'Sith of September, 2000' is how we would say it.<BR>
><BR>
>Aha! Now we know where the Dark Lords of the Sith come from!<BR>
<BR>
Well, look at Episode IV - all the Imperial Navy had British accents, <BR>
and the actor playing Vader was British (?) IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:02:44 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: : Re: Rapira-D<BR>
<BR>
At 5:21 -0400 7/9/00,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
> > I find that ACVs are the way to go at TL9 and up. You get the mobilty of<BR>
> > grav, and the cost of track.<BR>
><BR>
>But ACVs are *severely* limited in terms of their ability to handle<BR>
>slopes. They also don't like vertical obstacles (both tank traps and<BR>
>pits are a problem. Then again, tanks have the same problem with the<BR>
>obstacles.<BR>
<BR>
Tanks are better in extreme atmospheres and gravities.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 21:48:55 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
At 14:58 -0400 7/9/00, "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>Dom frothed, from his insane T4-lovin' mouth:<BR>
> > Well, we've managed to get Nick to start saying nice things about T4<BR>
> > these days, and he's just confessed to buying the Rebellion<BR>
> > Sourcebook....<BR>
>Alright, so maybe I said that, and maybe there were witnesses, but I was<BR>
>young, innocent, naieve. And I was drunk. In fact, I was clinically dead at<BR>
>the time of making that statement.*<BR>
<BR>
We have it in writing.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>*I've decided that enough people in BITS like T4 already, so I'm switching<BR>
>my efforts back to TNE.<BR>
<BR>
Just trying to avoid volunteering to write a tournament eh?<BR>
<BR>
Hmm. I direct you to Comrade Hudson's mantra.<BR>
<BR>
'There is only one Traveller, and its product is High Guard'.<BR>
<BR>
Addendum 1<BR>
'But T4.1 looks kind of cool, and its product should be High Guard'.<BR>
<BR>
Addendum 2<BR>
"And if you can't get T4 with the playtest mods MT is alright, and <BR>
it's near as damn-it High Guard'.<BR>
<BR>
Addendum 3<BR>
'GT utilises strange measurements, and bears no resemblance to High Guard'.<BR>
<BR>
Addendum 4<BR>
'Go not the way of TNE, for there lies strange icosohedral dice, not <BR>
the sacred cubes, and many aberrations such as HePLAR drives which <BR>
spit upon the memory of High Guard'. There also resides a nasty Viral <BR>
infection'.<BR>
<BR>
Addendum 5<BR>
'When all else fails, 'Hard Times' and 'Milieu 0' make fine <BR>
alternatives to M1100. TNEC isn't bad too.'<BR>
<BR>
HeHeHeHe!<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:03:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> Not even close. You'd need more[1] than 1 nuke per square km of<BR>
>> "surface".  And a gas giant has *billions* of sq. km...<BR>
><BR>
> Well, if you could focus a nuclear damper in such a way as to cause<BR>
> fusion at room temperature you can probably blow up a gas giant.<BR>
<BR>
Nuke dampers don't have that kind of range, do they? Nor a large enough<BR>
area of effect. Remember the comet that hit Jupiter a few years back?<BR>
Those impacts were a lot bigger than what you'd be causing. And deeper<BR>
down, the pressures are such that even a nuke wouldn't disturb things<BR>
much. <BR>
<BR>
> Or just about any planet with oceans, for that matter ;).<BR>
<BR>
Nah, in water the hydrogen is surrounding by too much "junk". <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:09:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:12:16 PST<BR>
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>Except that there *are* no "British Billion"-aires. Of *any* Nationality!<BR>
><BR>
> Not true.  Masayoshi Son (owner of Yahoo) has a fortune worth<BR>
> 2,058,000,000,000 Japanese Yen.  The media baron Silvio Berlusconi is<BR>
> worth 28,608,000,000,000 Italian Lire... (figures courtesy of<BR>
> askjeeves.com).<BR>
<BR>
I meant *real* money. Stuff where you don't need 3 figures to the left<BR>
of the decimal for the price of a loaf of bread!<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:  "Payment for this job will be Cr500,000"<BR>
> Later:  "_Imperial_ credits?  I never said the payment would be in<BR>
> Imperial credits, did I?!  Let me see, at the current exchange rate<BR>
> between the Imperial and the Utolander credit, your payment would be<BR>
> worth Cr3,256.57 in Imperial currency..."<BR>
<BR>
Funny how an pistol barrel shoved up one's nose makes one reconsider<BR>
that sort of thing, isn't it?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 16:52:57 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
> Well, look at Episode IV - all the Imperial Navy had British accents,<BR>
> and the actor playing Vader was British (?) IIRC.<BR>
><BR>
Umm... ENGLISH. There IS a difference. I don't recall any Welsh, Scottish or<BR>
Northern Irish.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:03:26 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Killing a System<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
> > Well, if you could focus a nuclear damper in such a way as to cause<BR>
> > fusion at room temperature you can probably blow up a gas giant.<BR>
> <BR>
> Nuke dampers don't have that kind of range, do they? Nor a large enough<BR>
> area of effect. Remember the comet that hit Jupiter a few years back?<BR>
> Those impacts were a lot bigger than what you'd be causing. And deeper<BR>
> down, the pressures are such that even a nuke wouldn't disturb things<BR>
> much. <BR>
<BR>
A TL 15 nuke damper also doesn't have that kind of power.  A TL 20 damper<BR>
(or hell, call it a disintegrator) might.  Certainly, I can't think of any<BR>
other way for grandfather to pull stunts like 'igniting' gas giants.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:12:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
> Well, look at Episode IV - all the Imperial Navy had British accents,<BR>
> and the actor playing Vader was British (?) IIRC.<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Darth Vader<BR>
<BR>
Body by David Prowse (UK)<BR>
Voice by James Earl Jones (US)<BR>
<BR>
It's an old Hollywood tradition that the good guys are American and the bad<BR>
guys are English.  ("Spartacus" springs to mind).<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:14:38 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> John P. Raynor writes:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >The Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" is pretty darn pathetic by military <BR>
> >standards, but it would make an ideal pirate ship, particularly since<BR>
> >it is more than capable of eating the typical Imperial anti-piracy<BR>
> >vessel (the Gazelle-class close escort) for breakfast.  Private citizens<BR>
> >would have no "legitimate" uses for such a ship.<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> <BR>
> 	How about picking up a contract to hunt pirates?  Rent your services<BR>
> 	to one or more wealthy low-TL worlds that need a mercenary navy.<BR>
> 	There might be a couple of "legitimate" niche jobs for such a vessel.<BR>
<BR>
I can see this sort of thing going on routinely outside the Imperium, or<BR>
on a "quasi-official" basis within the Imperium when the Imperial navy has<BR>
bigger military fish to fry (a Zhodani invasion, for instance, or a<BR>
violent dynastic crisis) and the local pirates are taking advantage of the<BR>
fact that all those Gazelle-class close escorts are busy protecting<BR>
*military* convoys or serving as cannon-fodder on the front lines.<BR>
<BR>
Finding a long-term patron in the aristocracy and/or an official naval<BR>
organization (a subsector navy, perhaps) would be a good first step for<BR>
would-be Kinunir-owners.  If the Imperium is willing to let good old Baron<BR>
Oberlindes fly a Lightning-class cruiser around Vargr space, there must be<BR>
*some* flexibility.  I suspect that *somebody* knows all about the<BR>
"Emissary" (and its fully-functional spinal meson gun) and Baron<BR>
Oberlindes has to do the Imperium's naval dirty work in Vargr space now<BR>
and then, to avoid losing his big toy.<BR>
                                                             - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3018<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3019</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/7/00 5:01:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 7 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3019<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Pocket Universes<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Warren Zevon redux<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Mongolese grav-APC for Striker<BR>
Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
RE: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
Re: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner<BR>
Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:14:38 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> John P. Raynor writes:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >The Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" is pretty darn pathetic by military <BR>
> >standards, but it would make an ideal pirate ship, particularly since<BR>
> >it is more than capable of eating the typical Imperial anti-piracy<BR>
> >vessel (the Gazelle-class close escort) for breakfast.  Private citizens<BR>
> >would have no "legitimate" uses for such a ship.<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> <BR>
> 	How about picking up a contract to hunt pirates?  Rent your services<BR>
> 	to one or more wealthy low-TL worlds that need a mercenary navy.<BR>
> 	There might be a couple of "legitimate" niche jobs for such a vessel.<BR>
<BR>
I can see this sort of thing going on routinely outside the Imperium, or<BR>
on a "quasi-official" basis within the Imperium when the Imperial navy has<BR>
bigger military fish to fry (a Zhodani invasion, for instance, or a<BR>
violent dynastic crisis) and the local pirates are taking advantage of the<BR>
fact that all those Gazelle-class close escorts are busy protecting<BR>
*military* convoys or serving as cannon-fodder on the front lines.<BR>
<BR>
Finding a long-term patron in the aristocracy and/or an official naval<BR>
organization (a subsector navy, perhaps) would be a good first step for<BR>
would-be Kinunir-owners.  If the Imperium is willing to let good old Baron<BR>
Oberlindes fly a Lightning-class cruiser around Vargr space, there must be<BR>
*some* flexibility.  I suspect that *somebody* knows all about the<BR>
"Emissary" (and its fully-functional spinal meson gun) and Baron<BR>
Oberlindes has to do the Imperium's naval dirty work in Vargr space now<BR>
and then, to avoid losing his big toy.<BR>
                                                             - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:22:00 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Pocket Universes<BR>
<BR>
According to "Adventure 12: Secret of the Ancients", the Ancients pinched<BR>
off several pocket universes which contained individual star systems.  <BR>
The volume of each one of these pocket universes was about 1/100,000th of<BR>
the great big one into which Grandfather ultimately retreated.  Now,<BR>
Grandfather's big pocket universe contained three star systems, and after<BR>
about 300,000 years, its stars had released enough light to create an<BR>
omni-directional glow that was (if I recall the description in the book<BR>
correctly) almost bright enough to read by at night.  Here's the question:<BR>
how would I calculate the intensity of the omni-directional "trapped<BR>
starlight glow" in one of those little pocket universes?<BR>
                                                              - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:24:31 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
When I was in Vietnam, the Admin detachment wrote travel orders (necessary to <BR>
send us home) on "Flex-o-Writers," which were glorified electric typewriters <BR>
cutting mimeograph stencils. They used a paper tape that had all the <BR>
necessary words and formatting instructions, and then would "stop" so the <BR>
clerk could type in my name and serial number. Then it started up and <BR>
finished typing the text.<BR>
<BR>
There were dozens of clerks in a row, each waiting for the typewriter to stop <BR>
so they could type in the next name.<BR>
<BR>
(For those of you whoc don't understand various terms, like mimeograph or <BR>
paper tape, email me off list and I'll explain).<BR>
<BR>
BTW, army work then required manual typewriters. No company in the US even <BR>
makes manual typewriters anymore.<BR>
<BR>
Marc Miller<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:31:51 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Warren Zevon redux<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 13:13:09 -0700<BR>
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> <BR>
> What next?  "psionical boy" ?<BR>
<BR>
Well he burned the barn down on his parents' farm<BR>
Psionical boy they all said<BR>
And they sent him away before he could do more harm<BR>
Psionical boy they all said<BR>
Well he's just a psionical boy.<BR>
<BR>
They tested him at the Institute on Wypoc<BR>
Psionical boy they all said<BR>
And he 'ported to Dinom, gave 'em all quite a shock<BR>
Psionical boy they all said<BR>
Well he's just a psionical boy.<BR>
<BR>
When he needed some cash, he'd find a game in a bar<BR>
Psionical boy they all said<BR>
Five card stud ain't so tough, when you see the hole card<BR>
Psionical boy they all said<BR>
Well he's just a psionical boy.<BR>
<BR>
When the Joeys attacked, he signed with IISS<BR>
Psionical boy they all said<BR>
Saved a special-ops unit from one hell of a mess<BR>
Psionical boy they all said<BR>
Well he's just a psionical boy.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 21:33:58 GMT<BR>
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Of course you *can* remove the weapons from a battleship.  You then get a <BR>
liner.  But then you can always put 'em back in again.  Especially if you're <BR>
a psychopath whose name is Angelina and you end up with a metallic <BR>
rodent.... "There *is* honour amongst thieves, you know!"<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Rowse (aka Captain Chicken, follower of Slippery Jim).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 17:40:06 -0400<BR>
From: Justin Kim <justinki@bellatlantic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
	Well, I have to say that I was pretty bummed when my signal <BR>
drum skills became obsolete.  Luckily, I took a retraining course in <BR>
smoke signals.<BR>
<BR>
Justin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:07:56 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
Marc Miller wrote:<BR>
> (For those of you whoc don't understand various terms, like mimeograph or <BR>
> paper tape, email me off list and I'll explain).<BR>
<BR>
Wonder how many people write asking what a typewriter is! :^)  It's scary<BR>
how many people no longer know that, or what a Phonograph is.<BR>
<BR>
> BTW, army work then required manual typewriters. No company in the US even <BR>
> makes manual typewriters anymore.<BR>
<BR>
It's getting hard to find a decent Electric.  I'm not sure if IBM still<BR>
makes their beautiful typewriters anymore.  I've still got one on my desk<BR>
here at work.  When it came down to it and the Windows NT machine, the NT<BR>
box went!<BR>
<BR>
Bah, all anyone needs is a VT100 to interface with their computer!!!  Though<BR>
I must admit at home I'm using a VT420 as it's a dual session terminal :^)<BR>
<BR>
			Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:22:10 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Mongolese grav-APC for Striker<BR>
<BR>
New!  From A-1 Armament Industries...<FNITCOD><BR>
<BR>
The next vehicle in the TL-10M family, the _PMB_ class grav-APC.*<BR>
<As requested by Luther Martin><BR>
<BR>
Armed with a tac-missile launcher & coaxial VRF gauss gun in the<BR>
main turret, a forward mounted auxilliary remote mount carries a<BR>
twin 2 cm auto-cannon, with a TL-10 point defense fire control <BR>
system.  The vehicle can carry a 12-man infantry squad.  <BR>
<BR>
Passengers dismount via a rear hatch.  Has room for 5 m^3 of cargo,<BR>
crew-served weapons, etc. in addition to its 12-man squad.  You can <BR>
tell it's an APC, it costs less than MCr 10.<BR>
<BR>
* PMB either stands for "Personnel Mobility Barge" or is "BMP" <BR>
spelled backwards.  :P<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
PMB type grav-APC<BR>
<BR>
This vehicle has a crew of 4 (commander, 2 gunners, driver), and can<BR>
carry 12 passengers.  Its turret mounts a tac-missile magazine launcher<BR>
& coaxial VRF gauss gun in a frontal turret mount.  An auxilliary <BR>
forward mounted remote turret mounts a twin 2 cm auto-cannon, with <BR>
TL-10 PD fire control.   Length: 10 m.  Width:  6 m.  Height: 2 m (+ 0.4<BR>
m for main turret).  Total volume: 93.98 m^3.  Weight: 309.2 tons.  Cr:<BR>
4,299,236.  Cargo: 5 m^3.  This one's a sinker too.  Price/weight in-<BR>
cludes full load of ammo (but not cargo or personnel weapons for pass-<BR>
engers; cargo weight *is* included).<BR>
<BR>
Movement: Immobile on stand Earth-gravity worlds (heh); on Mongo:<BR>
Maximum: 600 kph/500 cm.  Cruise: 450 kph/375 cm.  NOE: 140 kph/117 cm.<BR>
<BR>
Movement effects on fire: no effect.<BR>
<BR>
Armor: Remote mount front & sides: 62.  Remote mount rear: 57.  Hull &<BR>
turret front, turret sides: 55.  Hull sides: 42.  Turret rear: 41.<BR>
Hull rear: 36.  Deck: 50.  Belly: 34.     <BR>
<BR>
Target size DMs: Low + 4.  High (Turret) + 1.  High (Remote mount) +1.<BR>
<BR>
Equipment: laser sensor (roll 6+), 100 power target acquisition radar,<BR>
5000 power radio, 10 power maser communicator, extensive ecm, 500<BR>
bottles prismatic anti-laser aerosol, thermal imaging, passive IR,<BR>
image enhancement, map box, battle computer, 5 power terrain following<BR>
radar. <BR>
<BR>
Weapons:<BR>
     <BR>
The tac-missile magazine launcher carries 90 missiles (30 HEAP, <BR>
30 HEAP follow-up, 30 HE).  The HEAP missile are passive homing, <BR>
while the HE missiles are operator guided via a maser link.  Range <BR>
for both types is 5.5 km.  The HEAP missiles (& follow-up) are high <BR>
performance (+10 DM).  The HEAP missiles have a penetration of 60 <BR>
(includes follow-up).  The HE missile characteristics are<BR>
28/4/5, with a hit DM of +3.  Launch sig. of all missiles is +2.<BR>
<BR>
The VRF gauss gun has sufficient ammo for 23 phases of fire.<BR>
<BR>
Effective               Long            Extreme<BR>
<BR>
150(21) +8      300(19) +6      450(17) +3   Targets: 16  Sig.: +4<BR>
<BR>
The 2cm autocannon has point defense fire control, and is mounted<BR>
in front of the main turret (like some old British cruiser tanks).<BR>
It rolls 6D against incoming indirect fire.  Only KEAP ammunition is<BR>
provided for the autocannon, which has sufficient ammo for 16 phases of<BR>
fire.  It may engage 16 targets and has a signature of +1. <BR>
<BR>
Effective               Long            Extreme<BR>
<BR>
250(14) +6              350(12) +5      500(10) +2<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
Design details:<BR>
<BR>
TL-10  _PMB_ APC<BR>
<BR>
Hull: 10 m long, 6 m wide, 2 m high.  Hull volume = 120 m^3<BR>
Configuration: moderate front, sides; vertical rear.  <BR>
    Available volume = 84 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Turret: 5 m long, 6 m wide, 0.4 m high.  Turret volume = 12 m^3<BR>
Configuration: moderate front & sides, vertical rear.<BR>
    Available turret volume 8.4 m^3.<BR>
<BR>
Remote mount:  3 m long, 3 m wide, 0.25 m high.  Mount volume =<BR>
    2.25 m^3. <BR>
Configuration: moderate front & sides, vertical rear.  Available<BR>
    mount volume: 1.575 m^3. <BR>
<BR>
Hull Armor: Crystaliron.  Volume = 20.86 m^3  Weight = 208.6 tons<BR>
    Cost = Cr 187,740   Remaining hull volume = 63.14 m^3.<BR>
<BR>
Front = 20.5 cm thick (AV 55), 2.46 m^3<BR>
Sides = 6.7 cm thick (AV 42), 2.68 m^3.<BR>
Rear = 6 cm thick (AV 36), 0.72 m^3 <BR>
Deck = 20 cm thick (AV 50), 12 m^3.<BR>
Belly = 5cm thick (AV 34), 3 m^3.<BR>
<BR>
Turret Armor: Crystaliron  Volume = 1.5322 m^3.  Weight = 15.322 tons<BR>
    Cost = Cr 13,789.8   Remaining Turret Volume = 6.8678 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Front = 20.5 cm thick (AV 55),  0.492 m^3.<BR>
Sides = 20.5 cm thick (AV 55), 0.82 m^3.<BR>
Rear = 9.175 cm thick (AV 41), 0.2202 m^3.<BR>
<BR>
Remote Mount Armor: Crystaliron  Volume = 1.125925 m^3  Weight = 11.25925<BR>
    tons  Cost = 10,133.325   Remaining Mount Volume = 0.4518 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Front = 37.67 cm thick (AV 62),  0.282525 m^3<BR>
Sides = 37.67 cm thick (AV 62), 0.56505 m^3<BR>
Rear = 36.75 cm thick (AV 57), 0.275625 m^3<BR>
<BR>
* = in hull<BR>
<BR>
Power Plant: Fusion, Weight: 40 tons  Volume: 10 m^3  Output: 40 MW  *<BR>
    Cr 2,000,000<BR>
<BR>
Grav Generators: 300 tons thrust, Weight: 6 tons  Volume: 6 m^3  *<BR>
    Cr 600,000  require 30 MW of power. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Fuel: 1440 l. of fuel provide endurance for 24 hrs.  Volume: 1.44 m^3<BR>
    Weight: 0.1008 tons  Cr 50.4   *<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Avionics: TL-10 Avionics, Volume = 0.3 m^3, Weight = 0.15 tons, Cr *<BR>
    12,000   Max NOE speed = 140/117.<BR>
<BR>
Electronics/Equipment Total volume = 0.8498 m^3  Cost = Cr 563,250 *<BR>
    Weight = 0.7793 tons<BR>
<BR>
    5000 power radio<BR>
    10 power maser communicator<BR>
    100 power target acquisition radar (all-weather)<BR>
    map box<BR>
    battle computer<BR>
    extensive ECM<BR>
    thermal imaging<BR>
    image enhancement<BR>
    passive IR<BR>
    laser sensors -- TL-10 roll 6+<BR>
    500 cannisters prismatic anti-laser aerosol<BR>
    5 power terrain following radar<BR>
<BR>
Crew:   1 Driver, seated in hull,  Volume 1 m^3  Weight 0.2 tons  Cr100*<BR>
    1 Gunner, seated in hull,  Volume 1 m^3  Weight 0.2 tons  Cr100*<BR>
    1 Comnd., seated in tur.,  Volume 1 m^3  Weight 0.2 tons  Cr 100<BR>
    1 Gunrs., seated in tur.,  Volume 1 m^3  Weight 0.2 tons  Cr 100<BR>
<BR>
Passengers: 12 passengers.  Volume: 24 m^3  Weight: 2.4 tons  Cr 600*<BR>
<BR>
Environment:<BR>
    Hull, sealed with life support  Volume 7.06314 m^3  Weight <BR>
     tons 7.06314 tons Cr 14,631.4  *<BR>
    Turret, sealed with life support  Volume 1.0068678 m^3  Weight <BR>
    1.0068678 tons  Cr 2068.678 <BR>
    Remote mount, sealed.  Volume 0.0004518 m^3  Weight 0.0004518 tons<BR>
    Cr 4.518<BR>
<BR>
Weaponry:<BR>
    Turret: one frontal weapon station with direct fire control<BR>
<BR>
Direct fire control (TL-10) 0.06 tons  0.06 m^3  Cr 30,000<BR>
<BR>
Coaxial VRF gauss gun: Cr 206,000  Weight 2.3 tons  Volume 2.3 m^3<BR>
One hopper of ammunition (30,000 rounds) enough for 23 phases of fire.<BR>
combat stats are in Book 3.<BR>
<BR>
Coaxial magazine tac missile launcher:<BR>
    magazine capacity 90 (30 HEAP, 30 HEAP follow-up, 30 HE)<BR>
Weight 1.1177 tons  Volume 1.1177 m^3  Cr 167,655 <BR>
Maser guidance package: 0.02 tons  0.02 m^3  Cr 4000  <BR>
<BR>
tac missiles:  Total weight 4.062 tons  Volume 4.062 m^3  Cr 33,720*<BR>
    missile magazine is in hull.<BR>
<BR>
Basic = warhead: 20 cm HEAP  Weight 6 kg  Cr 36 <BR>
    guidance: Homing  Weight 1 kg  Cr 300<BR>
    propellant: range 5.5 km  Weight 44.1 kg (+ 10 High Performance)<BR>
    Cr 44.1<BR>
Total weight: 51.1 kg.  Volume 0.0511 m^3  Cr 381<BR>
<BR>
follow-up = identical to homing missile but cost = Cr 481<BR>
<BR>
HE =    warhead: 20 cm HE  Weight 6 kg  Cr 36<BR>
    guidance: maser operator guided  Weight 2kg  Cr 200<BR>
    propellant: range 5.5 km  Weight 25.2 kg  Cr 25.2<BR>
Total weight: 33.2 kg.  Volume 0.0332 m^3  Cr 262<BR>
<BR>
HEAP warhead (with follow-up): PV 60<BR>
HE warhead: PV 28/4/5  Hit DM + 3<BR>
<BR>
Remote mount: 1 frontal mount with TL-10 PD fire control & 2 cm <BR>
autocannon on front deck of chassis, controlled from hull <BR>
weapon station.<BR>
<BR>
TL-10 Point defense fire control: 0.6 tons,  0.6 m^3  Cr 300,000.<BR>
    0.3 m^3 of FC is in hull gunner's weapon station*<BR>
2 cm double barrel, high-velocity, auto cannon w/electric action.<BR>
    TL-10  Weight 0.09 ton  Volume 0.09 m^3  Cr 5000<BR>
    ROF per phase = 320  Autofire bonus = +6/+5/+2  16 targets<BR>
    Signature +1  Range (E/L/X) 250/350/500<BR>
Fires KEAP rounds only:<BR>
    per round  0.4 kg  0.0004 m^3  Cr 1.6<BR>
    Pen. value (E/L/X) 14/12/10<BR>
    Rolls 6D vs. indirect fire.<BR>
Ammunition is stored in the hull.  5120 rounds are carried; enough for<BR>
    16 phases of fire.  Cr 8192  Volume: 2.0768 m^3  Weight: <BR>
    2.0768 tons.  *<BR>
<BR>
    <BR>
Stabilization gear: Turret weapon station: 0.34977 tons  0.34977 m^3<BR>
    Cr 70,000<BR>
    Remote mount:  0.039 tons  0.039 m^3  Cr 70,000<BR>
<BR>
Cargo: 5 m^3.  Weight: 5 tons.<BR>
<BR>
Waste Space in Hull: 0.04826 m^3<BR>
Waste Space in Turret: 0.0734622 m^3<BR>
Waste Space in remote mount: 0.0223482 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 23:18:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
> How do they _possibly_ think they'd be able to sneak a 100 foot sub<BR>
> close enough to the american coastline to unload the cargo?<BR>
<BR>
<shrug><BR>
<BR>
Probably not impossible. You've got a lot of coastline to be watching. And<BR>
SSK's are real quiet these days.<BR>
<BR>
Sure, if you put P-3s or 688's onto full time duty watching for smugglers<BR>
then it would be difficult/impossible, but if you didn't know they *had*<BR>
the submarine, or you had better things to be watching, like Russian<BR>
exercises, then they might pull it off. Remember they only need to transfer<BR>
it to something short ranged on a jaunt out of a harbour, and they've<BR>
defeated your E2-C / F-16 combo pairs intercepting light planes and<BR>
high-speed boats. And they could pack a LOT of valuable bad things into a<BR>
submarine.<BR>
<BR>
 > Trying to use a sub for smuggling is sort of like trying to use an ICBM<BR>
> for rapid package delivery...you're going to trigger a hell of a lot<BR>
> higher level of response than a Coasties cutter and the US DOJ.<BR>
<BR>
Heh - I like the analogy. But bear in mind that at the moment they've<BR>
already got US military (well, Air National Guard) units deployed to<BR>
counter air and surface runs, perhaps they thought it would be worth it. It<BR>
might well have worked if they'd managed to keep the sub secret, too. Even<BR>
one or two runs could probably cover the cost of the sub and make a serious<BR>
profit. (Which is why it's worth employing military units against them in<BR>
the first place.)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 23:19:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
> With all that drug money, I wonder why they just didn't buy one from US<BR>
> Subs?<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure I saw a story in some periodical about a Russian Mafia guy<BR>
involved in brokering an old Soviet SSK to some drug runners somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 23:25:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
> >Alright, so maybe I said that, and maybe there were witnesses, but I was<BR>
> >young, innocent, naieve. And I was drunk. In fact, I was clinically dead<BR>
at<BR>
> >the time of making that statement.*<BR>
><BR>
> We have it in writing.<BR>
<BR>
What, that I'm young, sweet and innocent? Like nobody knew that<BR>
already....<sheesh><BR>
<BR>
> Just trying to avoid volunteering to write a tournament eh?<BR>
Well, there's that too... I suck at writing actual linears. It's much more<BR>
fun to take twenty worlds, generate them in detail, wait twenty years and<BR>
an AI Virus, and see what comes crawling out of the remains naturally.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Addendum 4<BR>
> 'Go not the way of TNE, for there lies strange icosohedral dice, not<BR>
> the sacred cubes, and many aberrations such as HePLAR drives which<BR>
> spit upon the memory of High Guard'. There also resides a nasty Viral<BR>
> infection'.<BR>
<BR>
Would it help if I admitted I kinda use the T4 mechanics (Well, T4 meets<BR>
BITS) to play around in my TNE background? (Which is why I cursed when I<BR>
got landed with a GURPS tournament....)<BR>
<BR>
HEPlaR has it's place, although I'm returning to T-Plates, especially since<BR>
I'm working in a low-tech universe, so only the high-end ships will have<BR>
them. Oh yes, TL-10 will be high-end.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
Chuckling with glee at all that wasted technological effort just to get a<BR>
TL-9 monitor out of the atmosphere once they've built it...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 23:27:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
> It's an old Hollywood tradition that the good guys are American and the<BR>
bad<BR>
> guys are English.  ("Spartacus" springs to mind).<BR>
> Tod<BR>
<BR>
Suits me - the bad guys are always more cool. (Look back at Starwars. Luke<BR>
Skywalker, Darth Vader. One an immortal sci-fi figure, one an annoying<BR>
farmboy with a funny haircut. Which was which?)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 23:38:49 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
I'm from the UK also, and I would say the sixth of September, but then that<BR>
is a little French<BR>
Mike<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: "SD Mooney" <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2000 11:24 PM<BR>
> Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > At 18:00 -0400 6/9/00, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
wrote:<BR>
> > >yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
> > >"September sixth, 2000"<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
> > >"Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Actually, 'Sith of September, 2000' is how we would say it.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Dom<BR>
><BR>
> Does Darth Gates know?<BR>
><BR>
> Matt<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:53:36 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
<BR>
It's a shame to say but I got the same book at barnesandnoble.com's used<BR>
book section for $17.00 + shipping which came down to about $20. They also<BR>
had an original Space 1889 hardbound. I found out that if I went to the<BR>
store they would order it to me for the same price and I didn't have to pay<BR>
shipping. Waiting for it to arrive at the store now.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 7:29 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
<BR>
At 08:38 PM 9/6/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>At the risk of sounding dead smug, I picked that up for 1.50 (that's one<BR>
>pound fifty, in case of dollar sign creep) at Gencon over the weekend.<BR>
>(Okay, more reaslistically about 101.50 after figuring in convention<BR>
>costs...)<BR>
<BR>
I bought the Starship Operator Manual in an online auction for about $25.<BR>
The day after it arrived, we were at the FLGS and Kirsten pulls a mint copy<BR>
of the same book off the used shelf.  Price?  $1.  If looks could kill...<BR>
I had justifyied the auction price with the "it's a very rare book" line.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, I bought that one too...<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Alle preisen den Pinguinherrscher!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 16:15:49 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Digest Group Publications (DGP) Unearthed<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>I bought the Starship Operator Manual in an online auction for about $25.<BR>
>The day after it arrived, we were at the FLGS and Kirsten pulls a mint copy<BR>
>of the same book off the used shelf.  Price?  $1.  If looks could kill...<BR>
>I had justifyied the auction price with the "it's a very rare book" line.<BR>
><BR>
>Of course, I bought that one too...<BR>
<BR>
In the securities biz, we call that "averaging down."<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 16:15:51 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Krzark the Headless Fusion Gunner<BR>
<BR>
Bravo! more! more!<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 16:15:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
>"Hey, Pablo! I got an idea! Lets stop looking like mere drug smugglers<BR>
>and act like a terrorist threat, maybe armed with nukes!!"<BR>
<BR>
Traveller News Service<BR>
Regina/Regina 202-1111<BR>
<BR>
A slowly flickering black globe entering Regina's night side triggered a<BR>
massive response by Reginan and Imperial defense forces last night.  Several<BR>
planet-based missile and fusion batteries fired dozens of volleys creating a<BR>
pyrotechnic display to remind of, if not rival, those of the recent war.  In<BR>
addition, Rampart fighters from the visiting Imperial 193rd Fleet flew<BR>
intercept patterns around the target area, and heavier fleet elements<BR>
assumed positions to destroy the intruder if it escaped ground fire but lost<BR>
its black globe capability.<BR>
<BR>
Ground fire apparently overloaded the intruder's capacitors, causing a<BR>
catastrophic explosion high over the mountains east of Noncredo.  Burning<BR>
wreckage was reported by residents over a swath hundreds of kilometers in<BR>
length.<BR>
<BR>
Crash inspectors from the Reginan, ducal, and Imperial navies converged on<BR>
the site of the wreckage this morning.  Commander Anada hault-Brekenrij<BR>
stated at an afternoon press conference that preliminary analysis indicated<BR>
that the vessel was the INS Kharkar, a Kinunir-class battle cruiser presumed<BR>
lost in this subsector during the recent war.  The ship's log recorder<BR>
remains missing.<BR>
<BR>
No survivors were found, however, parts of several bodies had been located.<BR>
None were identified as Imperial Navy personnel.  The teeth of at least one,<BR>
however, are reported to be a good match with Pablo Inlukkini, a leader in<BR>
the Red Death criminal organization.  In an interesting development, Cmdr.<BR>
hault-Brekenrij reported that large amounts of thalosynd were associated<BR>
with the wreckage.  Thalosynd is a highly addictive drug prized by its users<BR>
for its hallucinations of  psionic power.  Possession is strictly forbidden<BR>
on Regina.<BR>
<BR>
Investigation of the criminal aspects of this incident have been turned over<BR>
to the Regina Subsector Special Police.<BR>
<BR>
- ---o---<BR>
<BR>
The Traveller News Service is an Imperium-wide benefit of membership in the<BR>
Travellers' Aid Society.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 18:23:49 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 7 Sep 2000, Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Via electronic medium on 9/7/00 10:49 AM, john.raynor@yale.edu issued forth:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Actually, on second thought, a Kinunir-class "battlecruiser" wouldn't even<BR>
> > > be *that* good as a pirate ship, since it doesn't really have enough cargo<BR>
> > > space to carry enough loot to making piracy worthwhile.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You need some "booty craft", any old cargo haulers will do.<BR>
> ><BR>
> "booty craft"?  y'all don't EVEN wanna know what went thru my head....<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  A little tantric piracy, perhaps?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:38:41 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Isn't the point of T5 (or and Tx) to be a CT/MT like rule system?<BR>
If you just want the background, why not put out whatever melieu<BR>
floats you boat as a supplement to GURPS Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
At 2:38 PM +0100 9/7/00, Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
>Personally, I don't _care_ what type of game T5 turns out to be. As<BR>
>long as it arrives, works, is Traveller (proper) and has less typos<BR>
>and errata that T4. Go for it Marc!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  > Not that I'm suggesting that T5 should be a D20 game, but making it<BR>
>  > compatable/producing a D20 mechanic add on book would<BR>
>  > probably encourage<BR>
>  > newbies into the game. Look at the increased number of<BR>
>  > Traveller players<BR>
>  > since SJG got the licence for GURPS. Still, that kinda<BR>
>  > thing is all up to<BR>
>  > Marc.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 16:55:34 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
Depending upon which version of Traveller you are using, the black<BR>
globe would have overloaded the moment it hit the atmosphere ...<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:<BR>
> >From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
> <BR>
> >"Hey, Pablo! I got an idea! Lets stop looking like mere drug<BR>
> smugglers<BR>
> >and act like a terrorist threat, maybe armed with nukes!!"<BR>
> <BR>
> Traveller News Service<BR>
> Regina/Regina 202-1111<BR>
> <BR>
> A slowly flickering black globe entering Regina's night side<BR>
> triggered a<BR>
> massive response by Reginan and Imperial defense forces last night. <BR>
> Several<BR>
> planet-based missile and fusion batteries fired dozens of volleys<BR>
> creating a<BR>
> pyrotechnic display to remind of, if not rival, those of the recent<BR>
> war.  In<BR>
> addition, Rampart fighters from the visiting Imperial 193rd Fleet<BR>
> flew<BR>
> intercept patterns around the target area, and heavier fleet elements<BR>
> assumed positions to destroy the intruder if it escaped ground fire<BR>
> but lost<BR>
> its black globe capability.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ground fire apparently overloaded the intruder's capacitors, causing<BR>
> a<BR>
> catastrophic explosion high over the mountains east of Noncredo. <BR>
> Burning<BR>
> wreckage was reported by residents over a swath hundreds of<BR>
> kilometers in<BR>
> length.<BR>
> <BR>
> Crash inspectors from the Reginan, ducal, and Imperial navies<BR>
> converged on<BR>
> the site of the wreckage this morning.  Commander Anada<BR>
> hault-Brekenrij<BR>
> stated at an afternoon press conference that preliminary analysis<BR>
> indicated<BR>
> that the vessel was the INS Kharkar, a Kinunir-class battle cruiser<BR>
> presumed<BR>
> lost in this subsector during the recent war.  The ship's log<BR>
> recorder<BR>
> remains missing.<BR>
> <BR>
> No survivors were found, however, parts of several bodies had been<BR>
> located.<BR>
> None were identified as Imperial Navy personnel.  The teeth of at<BR>
> least one,<BR>
> however, are reported to be a good match with Pablo Inlukkini, a<BR>
> leader in<BR>
> the Red Death criminal organization.  In an interesting development,<BR>
> Cmdr.<BR>
> hault-Brekenrij reported that large amounts of thalosynd were<BR>
> associated<BR>
> with the wreckage.  Thalosynd is a highly addictive drug prized by<BR>
> its users<BR>
> for its hallucinations of  psionic power.  Possession is strictly<BR>
> forbidden<BR>
> on Regina.<BR>
> <BR>
> Investigation of the criminal aspects of this incident have been<BR>
> turned over<BR>
> to the Regina Subsector Special Police.<BR>
> <BR>
> ---o---<BR>
> <BR>
> The Traveller News Service is an Imperium-wide benefit of membership<BR>
> in the<BR>
> Travellers' Aid Society.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3019<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3020</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/8/00 1:07:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 8 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3020<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
GT : Starships and Imperial Navy sourcebooks<BR>
Re: OT Challenge Magazine<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
RE: Looking for FFE001 & FFE002<BR>
TL 5 miniatures<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
RE: Kinunir<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Striker at TL 5 (was RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya)<BR>
High Guard Shipyard v1.01 released<BR>
Closest Approach (was Re: Refuling from Stars)<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
RE: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
re:  Mongolese grav-APC for Striker<BR>
Just a reminder DGP Products Unearthed<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 11:23:19 +1000 <BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Yep, remove the Milieu information, I never use it anyway. <BR>
Seperate supplements for milieu, I'll pay the extra! And if there is a<BR>
concern about needing the game to be ready to play, why not a boxed set<BR>
with basic rules and milieu supplement, and a big map... and...and..and<BR>
<BR>
(Paul drops into nostalgic dream mode...)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: David P. Summers [mailto:summers@alum.mit.edu]<BR>
> Sent: Friday, 8 September 2000 7:39<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Isn't the point of T5 (or and Tx) to be a CT/MT like rule system?<BR>
> If you just want the background, why not put out whatever melieu<BR>
> floats you boat as a supplement to GURPS Traveller.<BR>
> <BR>
> At 2:38 PM +0100 9/7/00, Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
> >Personally, I don't _care_ what type of game T5 turns out to be. As<BR>
> >long as it arrives, works, is Traveller (proper) and has less typos<BR>
> >and errata that T4. Go for it Marc!<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >  > Not that I'm suggesting that T5 should be a D20 game, <BR>
> but making it<BR>
> >  > compatable/producing a D20 mechanic add on book would<BR>
> >  > probably encourage<BR>
> >  > newbies into the game. Look at the increased number of<BR>
> >  > Traveller players<BR>
> >  > since SJG got the licence for GURPS. Still, that kinda<BR>
> >  > thing is all up to<BR>
> >  > Marc.<BR>
> <BR>
> ______________________________<BR>
> summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but <BR>
> I'm in California.)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:33:11 +1100 (EST)<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au><BR>
Subject: GT : Starships and Imperial Navy sourcebooks<BR>
<BR>
I've been absent from the Traveller scene for about a year due to<BR>
family commitments, and was expecting both the above books to be out<BR>
and about by now.  I can't seem to find reference to them on the<BR>
GURPS website, though.<BR>
<BR>
Have they been shelved, or is something else going on?<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Craig.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au>  <craig_barnett@iname.com><BR>
Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________________________<BR>
http://geocities.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Australia & NZ GeoCities<BR>
- - Build your own Web Site - for free!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:09:17 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Peters" <Travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT Challenge Magazine<BR>
<BR>
Marc<BR>
<BR>
I have spares of 71 (good condition, spine wear on cover, but still intact)<BR>
and 74 (excellent condition). I some one else hasn't sold you a pair already<BR>
get in touch by private email... Travelleri@home.com.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <CardSharks@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 12:47 PM<BR>
Subject: OT Challenge Magazine<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I am looking for copies of Challenge Magazine for my files/archives. I<BR>
need<BR>
> issues 70, 71, and 74.<BR>
><BR>
> Does anyone have some spares?<BR>
><BR>
> Marc Miller<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:18:29<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
At 03:14 PM 9/7/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR>
>In a message dated 9/7/00 3:52:38 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
><< If the PC's showed up in the Kinunir, they'd be given nice shiny<BR>
plaques, >a hearty handshake, and a boot out the door. >><BR>
><BR>
>what about salvage rights?...:-)<BR>
<BR>
From my weak understanding of salvage law, the ship remains Imperial<BR>
property no matter what the circumstance.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 22:27:39 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Looking for FFE001 & FFE002<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/7/00 7:32:38 AM !!!First Boot!!!,<BR>
tsculler@earthlink.net<BR>
>writes:<BR>
><BR>
><<  just joined the mailing list.<BR>
> I'm looking for the "Traveller Classic Books" (001) by Far Future<BR>
Enterprises<BR>
> (containing books 0-8 I believe)<BR>
> and<BR>
> "Traveller Supplements" (002) by the same company.  I believe this one has<BR>
13<BR>
> supplements in 1 volume.<BR>
> I've looked at local hobby shops around Las Vegas and I can't find them.<BR>
> Is there anywhere online that I can purchase these other than Ebay?<BR>
><BR>
> Thanks, Tom. >><BR>
><BR>
>there's a new hobby store on the west side at Spring Mountain and Rainbow,<BR>
>called "Imagination". It's next to Kmart. I saw 002 on the shelf, so I<BR>
asume<BR>
>that the owners can get both for you. The other alternative is Triple J's<BR>
on<BR>
>Sandhill and Flamingo...<BR>
<BR>
As always both barnesandnoble.com and Amazon.com have these books for sale<BR>
at regular retail prices (plus shipping.) I prefer to support my FLGS if I<BR>
can. I always try to buy there, even the GT stuff that I could get sooner at<BR>
SJGame's site. But if they aren't going to get it, or it's out of print<BR>
stuff I always go to barnesandnoble.com's out of print service. Sometimes<BR>
individual books are overpriced, but generally I find the prices reasonable.<BR>
I, personally, would never try to pick up game books on eBay. Every RPG item<BR>
I've ever seen there ends up being overpriced by the time bidding's over.<BR>
I'd much rather put in my request to B&N and kill the order if it's too<BR>
expensive when they find it. Many times they still have new stuff in their<BR>
regular stock listings. I guess it's sat in some warehouse all this time.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:45:48 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: TL 5 miniatures<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>I see that Luther really wants to use the TL 5 miniatures he recently<BR>
>acquired.<BR>
<BR>
  TL 5:<BR>
  "Yes, you said that the salesmen not only offered you an extra cash<BR>
discount, but pointed out that quantity has a quality all its own. But<BR>
that doesn't change the fact that you were mentally defective to sign!"<BR>
<BR>
  Besides, lead figures shouldn't be more than TL 2, right? :><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 22:07:39 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
>Marc Miller wrote:<BR>
> > (For those of you whoc don't understand various terms, like mimeograph or<BR>
> > paper tape, email me off list and I'll explain).<BR>
>Wonder how many people write asking what a typewriter is! :^)  It's scary<BR>
>how many people no longer know that, or what a Phonograph is.<BR>
<BR>
Don't remind me.  I had to explain to my 21 year old son how to play a LP <BR>
phonograph.<BR>
Why it needed to be cleaned, the whole 8.23 meters.  The fact the needle <BR>
*actually* touched the record fascinated him.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
A well-educated electorate being necessary to the prosperity of a free<BR>
state, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be<BR>
infringed.  -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 18:42:56 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
From: Mike Demetro <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> Well, look at Episode IV - all the Imperial Navy had British accents,<BR>
>> and the actor playing Vader was British (?) IIRC.<BR>
>><BR>
>Umm... ENGLISH. There IS a difference. I don't recall any Welsh, Scottish<BR>
or<BR>
>Northern Irish.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    You know why the sun never set on the Brittish Empire?  Because God<BR>
can't trust Englishmen in the dark....<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:57:28 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GENCON UK 2000<BR>
<BR>
  Methinks there's a latitudinarian blasphemer about...<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>'There is only one Traveller, and its product is High Guard'.<BR>
><BR>
>Addendum 1<BR>
>'But T4.1 looks kind of cool, and its product should be High Guard'.<BR>
><BR>
>Addendum 2<BR>
>"And if you can't get T4 with the playtest mods MT is alright, and <BR>
>it's near as damn-it High Guard'.<BR>
><BR>
>Addendum 3<BR>
>'GT utilises strange measurements, and bears no resemblance to High Guard'.<BR>
><BR>
>Addendum 4<BR>
>'Go not the way of TNE, for there lies strange icosohedral dice, not <BR>
>the sacred cubes, and many aberrations such as HePLAR drives which <BR>
>spit upon the memory of High Guard'. There also resides a nasty Viral <BR>
>infection'.<BR>
><BR>
>Addendum 5<BR>
>'When all else fails, 'Hard Times' and 'Milieu 0' make fine <BR>
>alternatives to M1100. TNEC isn't bad too.'<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 23:01:16 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
>>In a message dated 9/7/00 3:52:38 PM !!!First Boot!!!,<BR>
>>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
>><BR>
>><< If the PC's showed up in the Kinunir, they'd be given nice shiny<BR>
>plaques, >a hearty handshake, and a boot out the door. >><BR>
>><BR>
>>what about salvage rights?...:-)<BR>
><BR>
>From my weak understanding of salvage law, the ship remains Imperial<BR>
>property no matter what the circumstance.<BR>
>--<BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
The only way I could see PC's getting away with something like this was if<BR>
they were already highly connected. INI agents might be able to make a deal<BR>
with the Navy to maintain use of the ship (provided they "found" it fair and<BR>
square.) A member of the nobility, a younger son or daughter, or even a<BR>
Remittance Man might be able to hold onto the ship, if their family was<BR>
powerful enough. I expect they might have to do a few "favors for the<BR>
Archduke" in return. They would have to either keep a low profile or gather<BR>
up such an awesome reputation as defenders of the Imperium that they were<BR>
untouchable. I expect they might still have to return any BG generator found<BR>
aboard to the Navy, unless they were real hot s-t.<BR>
<BR>
I could see it working in a real high power campaign, but these folks won't<BR>
be chasing down lone corsairs or running high value cargoes on the frontier.<BR>
They'll be taking on SDB's and closing down pirate strongholds, maybe even<BR>
tipping the balance of power in some pocket empire for or against the<BR>
Imperium. This is not the campaign for a group of merchant characters.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 20:34:50 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
Woo hoo!!  Striker at Tech Level 5!<BR>
<BR>
My Tech Level 8 Mercenaries are gearing up...<BR>
...and I'll have to buy some miniatures of pre-WWII German and Russian<BR>
tanks.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> HEYA/REGINA (0802-B687745-5)<BR>
> <BR>
> Members of the Travellers' Aid Society are advised that the political<BR>
> situation on Heya is rapidly deteriorating, and the outbreak of war may be<BR>
> possible in the next few months. All members should make alternate plans to<BR>
> avoid Heya and the potential hostilities if possible.<BR>
> <BR>
> Traveller's News Service is another Imperium-wide benefit of membership in<BR>
> the Travellers' Aid Society.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:34:51 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
Twenty six hours after the London Premiere of 'Mary Poppins', Supreme Pearly<BR>
King James Botwhistle issued a fatwah against Dick Van Dyke for crimes<BR>
commeitted against the Cockney Nation. His sparklness James stated that anyone<BR>
who clensed the world of this 'abomination' would not only guarantee themselves<BR>
a place in Heaven but also a lifetime supply of whelks.<BR>
<BR>
'No true son of the bow bells,' ranted the Pearly King, 'Can rest until this<BR>
spawn of satan is pushing up the daisies know what I mean.'<BR>
<BR>
Ben<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 8:20 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
> > "September sixth, 2000"<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
> > "Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Strike a light, that's just the posh people, guv'nor. Us cheeky cockney<BR>
> chim-er-ney sweeps<BR>
> ain't got no use for that kind o' fancy talking. Stone the crows, yew wannna<BR>
> talk to me mate Mary Pow-pins :)<BR>
><BR>
> Ob-Trav: Confusing local dialect causes Free Traders to pick up speculative<BR>
> cargo that is contraband on the next world they visit.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 20:34:55 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <lwmarti@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Striker at TL 5 (was RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya)<BR>
<BR>
Kristian Miller wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Woo hoo!!  Striker at Tech Level 5!<BR>
><BR>
> My Tech Level 8 Mercenaries are gearing up...<BR>
> ...and I'll have to buy some miniatures of pre-WWII German and Russian<BR>
> tanks.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I should have enough TL 5 miniatures to play a few concurrent<BR>
games! I just bought about 80 WWI miniatures from Steve Hudson: tanks, light<BR>
tanks, and APCs. Steve has quite a collection of Scotia miniatures which he<BR>
is trying to unload. And at $0.25 each, you can't have too many.<BR>
<BR>
The only alternative for WWI micro-scale vehicles seems to be Irregular. Can<BR>
anyone vouch for the quality of this line? How do they compare to Scotia?<BR>
<BR>
The best part is that your artillery is actually useful at TL 5. None of<BR>
this stuff where grav vehicles can cover the entire board several times per<BR>
turn, evading virtually any artillery. The TL 15 APC given as an example in<BR>
Striker can move something like 13 meters per turn on Mongo (low gravity<BR>
helps). Yes, that's 13 meters on the *board*. Kristian's garage just isn't<BR>
big enough.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 17:05:48 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: High Guard Shipyard v1.01 released<BR>
<BR>
This is a maintainece release. It fixes all the bugs found since the first <BR>
release (except that it still requires armed small craft to have a seperate <BR>
gunner, but i'm working on that). It also will let you enter powerplant fuel in <BR>
other than lots of 30 days. The update can be found at<BR>
<BR>
  <http://www.downport.com/amv/hgs/hgs.html><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 04:34:59 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: Closest Approach (was Re: Refuling from Stars)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 7 Sep 2000 05:57:27 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> > It occurred to me that at a sufficiently high tech level a<BR>
> > starship should be able to refuel from a star. Obviously lower<BR>
> > temperature and/or lower pressure stars would be easier to<BR>
> > refuel from.<BR>
<snip><BR>
> The radiation (the kind that produces radiation sickness) isn't the<BR>
> problem. It's the *heat*...<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of which, when an ship breaks out of jump at a star's 100D<BR>
limit at a point directly opposite its destination world, the most<BR>
direct route to the planet will pass very close to the star. How do<BR>
I determine the minimum safe distance that a given ship can come to<BR>
a given star type without burning up?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |    Johnny-B-Gud may not visit Munich for the     |<BR>
              |             opulent skillet. FNORD!              |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 02:45:56 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Under current international salvage laws, warships remain the property<BR>
of their originating governments.  That was why their was such a stink<BR>
about the French salvaging artifacts off CSS Alabama; the U.S.<BR>
government claimed that as successor government to the CSA, CSS Alabama<BR>
belonged to the U.S.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the fact that the U.S. government termed itself a<BR>
"successor" government lends legitimacy to the CSA ...<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> At 03:14 PM 9/7/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR>
> >In a message dated 9/7/00 3:52:38 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
> >gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><< If the PC's showed up in the Kinunir, they'd be given nice shiny<BR>
> plaques, >a hearty handshake, and a boot out the door. >><BR>
> ><BR>
> >what about salvage rights?...:-)<BR>
> <BR>
> From my weak understanding of salvage law, the ship remains Imperial<BR>
> property no matter what the circumstance.<BR>
> -- <BR>
> <BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 01:59:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> oBTrav Given that galanglic is likely a mongrel language, derived from a<BR>
> pidgin along the line, and surviving a 100 year Long Night, are there<BR>
> likely to be many different dialects still around, even after almost<BR>
> 1200 years of the Imperium?  <BR>
<BR>
And what if people are trying to preserve some of them, or even revive<BR>
them, based on old recordings...<BR>
<BR>
The PCs visit a planet with an odd dialect... but your *players are<BR>
trying to decide whether laugh, run, or strangle you. <BR>
<BR>
Yes, world where they are trying to preserve the "noble dialect" known<BR>
<gag, retch> Valspeak!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 02:18:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Bah, all anyone needs is a VT100 to interface with their computer!!!  Though<BR>
> I must admit at home I'm using a VT420 as it's a dual session terminal :^)<BR>
<BR>
I prefer my Wsye-75 clone (though there is that $^^%$ problem with<BR>
power supplies).<BR>
<BR>
I also have a terminal that emulates (among other things) an ADM-3<BR>
(actually, I may have a couple of them, I haven't really checked all<BR>
the stuff that came with the Xenix box)<BR>
<BR>
Eventually, I'll get a Linux box set up, and use the terminals in<BR>
different spots around the place.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 11:12:28 +0100<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
> Ob-Trav: Confusing local dialect causes Free Traders to pick up speculative<BR>
> cargo that is contraband on the next world they visit.<BR>
<BR>
If ya divvan nar wat he's yackin aboot, com oop an see the lads an<BR>
lasses on the Tyne.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 07:12:41 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
>I'm sure I saw a story in some periodical about a Russian Mafia guy<BR>
>involved in brokering an old Soviet SSK to some drug runners somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
You are correct. It happened a couple years ago, around '97. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 14:21:52 +0100<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> C) any given gibberish probably means something in an obscure English<BR>
> dialect.<BR>
<BR>
Probably ... <g><BR>
<BR>
> Long ago, I read that England had some huge number, like 200, distinct<BR>
> dialects, of which a large number were mutually incomrehensible.<BR>
> <BR>
> While in the modern age of radio and teevee many if not most of them<BR>
> have died out, are many still around? Are there, foex, B'billinger'<BR>
> clubs where people learn to speak these old dialect and/or try to keep<BR>
> them alive?<BR>
<BR>
Many if not all of the dialects have disappeared in the modern age, but<BR>
the accents are still strong and keep a few words from the original<BR>
dialects. The strongest of these are communities which are 'out of the<BR>
way', have a strong sense of regional identity and have only a small<BR>
population migration both in and out.<BR>
<BR>
> oBTrav Given that galanglic is likely a mongrel language, derived from a<BR>
> pidgin along the line, and surviving a 100 year Long Night, are there<BR>
> likely to be many different dialects still around, even after almost<BR>
> 1200 years of the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
Yes given the amount of population. 'Official' galanglic, ie the one<BR>
used in government communications, is probably the one that is taught in<BR>
schools and used by the merchants. Accents and dialects will abound due<BR>
to the same reasons above, but then different people should be able to<BR>
understand each other when defaulting to the 'Official' galanglic.<BR>
<BR>
Think about an American, a South African, and a Caribbean (spell ?),<BR>
talking to each other. They all talk some form of English even though<BR>
accents and dialects will be different. They should all be able to<BR>
understand each other, if they want to, as the English that they were<BR>
all taught is basically the same.<BR>
<BR>
My Ligistics is 10 years out of data, so take the above with a pinch of salt.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,<BR>
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,<BR>
   Network Services                   Their's but to do and die:<BR>
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death<BR>
                                      Rode the six hundred.<BR>
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR>
<BR>
   #include<stddisclaimer.h><BR>
<BR>
   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR>
<BR>
   University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:20:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
> >what about salvage rights?...:-)<BR>
><BR>
> From my weak understanding of salvage law, the ship remains Imperial<BR>
> property no matter what the circumstance.<BR>
<BR>
From my similarly weak understanding of salvage law, the PCs return the<BR>
ship to its rightful owners (in this case the Imperial Navy) who then pay<BR>
the finders the salvage value of the ship (a set percentage of its value).<BR>
If they cannot find this money (unlikely if it's the Impy Navy) then they<BR>
may have to sell the ship in order to generate it, and that's the only way<BR>
the ship would stop being the property of its original owners. Since it's<BR>
owned by the sovereign, normal salvage law may not even apply.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone have a strong understanding ?<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:33:35 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
>From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
<BR>
>Wonder how many people write asking what a typewriter is! :^)  It's scary<BR>
>how many people no longer know that, or what a Phonograph is.<BR>
<BR>
Everybody knows that a typewriter is direct keyboard input/printer output<BR>
device.  It has neither monitor nor CPU, and therefore, obviously, does not<BR>
run software.  It is a very simple design, but very difficult to use<BR>
effectively.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:33:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re:  Mongolese grav-APC for Striker<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Mongolese grav-APC for Striker<BR>
<BR>
I haven't reviewed the design, but I do appreciate your and others' efforts<BR>
to produce Striker designs for the San Jose group to destroy.<BR>
<BR>
For the record, I'm going with "Mongon" to refer to people and things of<BR>
Mongo.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
TML Landgrab: Mongo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:00:19 GMT<BR>
From: "Boris Cibic" <kafka47@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Just a reminder DGP Products Unearthed<BR>
<BR>
Just a reminder to all those that didnt see the original posting:<BR>
<BR>
    At my local FLGS in London, ON, I spotted a few rare Traveller gems <BR>
including, some DGP.  If anyone on the list is interested please email me <BR>
(kafka47@hotmail.com).  If there is more than one person interested then we <BR>
could go by auction (already in progress terminates Monday)  in which send <BR>
in your high price and your low price for a particular item plus what you <BR>
are bidding on.<BR>
<BR>
    If you want, I would happily entertain a trade.  Items that I am <BR>
currently looking for are:  (a) High Passage #1 (b) Adventure Ships Vol. 1 <BR>
(c) Adventure Ships Vol., 2 (d) Aslan Mercenary Ships (e) Seeker Corporation <BR>
Building Plans. (f) Challenge #68<BR>
<BR>
Now onto the items at hand.  All show excessive shelf wear, but no tears.  <BR>
Inside is clean and white with no visible pencil marks.<BR>
<BR>
Rebellion Sourcebook {GDW}  - - -$20.00US<BR>
Assignment Vigilante {GDW} - - -$20.00US<BR>
Imperial Encyclopedia {GDW} - - -$20.00US<BR>
101 Vehicles {DGP} - - -$20.00US<BR>
Alien Module 1: Vilani and Vargr {DGP} - - -$20.00US<BR>
Alien Module 2: Aslan and Solomani {DGP} - - -$20.00US<BR>
<BR>
All prices reflect store prices and does not include postage and handling.<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3020<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 9 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3021<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Legitimate  govenments<BR>
Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: GT: Starships and Imperial Navy sourcebooks<BR>
Re: Kinunir<BR>
Re: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Rapira & PMB errata <BR>
Re: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
Re: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
Re: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
[www] 08 Sep 00 - Freelance Traveller Updated (and boy is our face red...)<BR>
RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 16:21:43 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, the fact that the U.S. government termed itself a<BR>
>"successor" government lends legitimacy to the CSA ...<BR>
<BR>
The CSA was a valid nation, just not for very long....<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
Hillary's gut political judgment is always the same:<BR>
go for the jugular even when it's self-destructive. - Dick Morris<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:29:28 -0700 <BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
>Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>Yes given the amount of population. 'Official' galanglic, ie the one<BR>
>used in government communications, is probably the one that is taught in<BR>
>schools and used by the merchants. Accents and dialects will abound due<BR>
>to the same reasons above, but then different people should be able to<BR>
>understand each other when defaulting to the 'Official' galanglic.<BR>
><BR>
>Think about an American, a South African, and a Caribbean (spell ?),<BR>
>talking to each other. They all talk some form of English even though<BR>
>accents and dialects will be different. They should all be able to<BR>
>understand each other, if they want to, as the English that they were<BR>
>all taught is basically the same.<BR>
<BR>
	It has been my general experience that English speakers are often<BR>
more tolerant of wierd accents because 1) there are so  many of them, and 2)<BR>
we are so used to hearing it spoken badly.  (that includes many native<BR>
Americans ;o)  Contrast this with Iceland, for example.  No one seems to<BR>
speak Icelandic except Icelanders and professors, so they are not used to<BR>
hearing it mangled. (frustratingly easy to do).  If you try to ask for<BR>
something in the store and use an -a at the end of that noun instead of an<BR>
- -an, they will just look at you blankly and then starting talking to you in<BR>
English.  It was very demoralizing, let me tell you.<BR>
	On the other hand, the tolerance of any given native English-speaker<BR>
for strange pronounciations or fractured grammar will vary widely.  I know a<BR>
number of people that complained to me that they could not understand "The<BR>
Full Monty" (you wouldn't believe how much I wanted to smack them.)  I have<BR>
also been one of the four people in a theater laughing at the jokes in "Much<BR>
Ado About Nothing"...the other three were sitting beside me (fellow<BR>
ren-faire geeks)<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT (xenophillic and proud of it)<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - Don't blame them; they just pay me, they don't tell me what to<BR>
think<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:36:48 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin writes:<BR>
 <BR>
> The CSA was a valid nation, just not for very long....<BR>
<BR>
That rather depends on one's definition of 'valid', as it applies to nations.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 16:35:17 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
> I know a<BR>
> number of people that complained to me that they could not understand "The<BR>
> Full Monty" (you wouldn't believe how much I wanted to smack them.)<BR>
<BR>
I understand. I marvel at my Dad's inability to understand the people on<BR>
Coronation Street. Of course, I find a lot of those New York accents to be<BR>
ridiculous, even if I can make them out. I have recently spoken to a few<BR>
different people as far north in the US as Illinois and they sound very like<BR>
the people in the South. I never knew that.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 16:03:23 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT: Starships and Imperial Navy sourcebooks<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:33:11 +1100 (EST)<BR>
> From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au><BR>
> Subject: GT : Starships and Imperial Navy sourcebooks<BR>
> <BR>
> I've been absent from the Traveller scene for about a year due to<BR>
> family commitments, and was expecting both the above books to be out<BR>
> and about by now.  I can't seem to find reference to them on the<BR>
> GURPS website, though.<BR>
> <BR>
> Have they been shelved, or is something else going on?<BR>
<BR>
GT: Imperial Navy went all the way to final draft before SJ Games decided<BR>
that the product was unacceptable (for reasons that remain<BR>
unspecified). Rather than be bought out and their draft extensively<BR>
rewritten by someone else, the authors elected to return their advances<BR>
and keep the draft. SJ Games is looking for an author to re-do the whole<BR>
project from scratch, preferably one who was not closely involved in the<BR>
original draft and playtest.<BR>
<BR>
Take a look at the SJ Games Author's Solicitation page (i.e., the<BR>
Wishlist):<BR>
<BR>
http://www.sjgames.com/general/author/capsules.html#Navy<BR>
<BR>
GT: Starships was proceeding slowly but steadily until I determined that<BR>
my real job was going to soak up all my extra time. At that point, I asked<BR>
SJ Games to find another author to complete the project, which they<BR>
did. Robert Prior is now at the helm, and I have turned all my work to<BR>
date over to him. Some preliminary discussion is taking place on the<BR>
Pyramid and JTAS boards (which, being SJ Games property, do not constitute<BR>
premature release of proprietary information).<BR>
<BR>
Robert has indicated that he will make up a list of what submissions he is<BR>
seeking once he gets a chance to digest the material I sent him. I expect<BR>
that he will make a blanket announcement here when he is ready.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 14:06:43 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:18:29<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> ><< If the PC's showed up in the Kinunir, they'd be given nice shiny<BR>
> plaques, a hearty handshake, and a boot out the door. >><BR>
> ><BR>
> >what about salvage rights?...:-)<BR>
> <BR>
> From my weak understanding of salvage law, the ship remains Imperial<BR>
> property no matter what the circumstance.<BR>
<BR>
Salvage law and the related "law of finds" are a bit more complicated than<BR>
this, at least under current US law, which may provide an interesting<BR>
model for Imperial law.  See <http://freeadvice.com/law/643us.htm> for a<BR>
quick intro.  Of particular interest is the clause that, to obtain<BR>
outright ownership through salvage, the original owner must have<BR>
voluntarily and unambiguously taken actions indicating their abandonment<BR>
of ownership of the vessel.  One such action is making an insurance claim<BR>
for loss of the vessel.  Lloyds [well, more properly, the independent<BR>
agents working under the Lloyds aegis] (a primary insurer of commercial<BR>
shipping) often contracts salvage on such vessels, which become its<BR>
property when the claim is paid.<BR>
<BR>
There's actually a special bell atop the Lloyds building which is rung<BR>
when a Lloyds-insured vessel is successfully salvaged.  And, in a moment<BR>
which brought tears to my eyes, they rang that bell when the Space Shuttle<BR>
crew successfully recovered a malfunctioning Indonesian satellite insured<BR>
by Lloyds.  It's stuff like this that makes you proud to be a Brit. <BR>
<BR>
Of particular interest in the Kinunir-salvage case is this paragraph from<BR>
the site mentioned above:<BR>
<BR>
  WHAT ABOUT U. S. MILITARY VESSELS OR SHIPS FOUND UNDERWATER?<BR>
<BR>
  The United States has taken the position, and it is generally accepted<BR>
  in maritime law, that a sovereign government never abandons its vessels<BR>
  or aircraft. Thus, whenever a military wreck is discovered, whether it<BR>
  be a vessel or a plane, the United States still asserts its ownership<BR>
  interest. However, in a recent Federal Court case involving salvage<BR>
  rights to a submerged World War II Navy plane allegedly in 500 feet of<BR>
  water less than one mile off the coast of Miami the court rejected the<BR>
  Navy's claim and sided with the private salvor. This was an important<BR>
  case for those interested in salvaging the many scattered World War II<BR>
  Navy planes on the bottoms of Lake Michigan and Lake Washington.<BR>
<BR>
One can imagine an interesting controversy arising between the Imperium<BR>
and a planetary government (and other, ah, interested parties) over rival<BR>
claims to a derelict IN ship discovered in the system... <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 16:15:54 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:20:27 -0700<BR>
> From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
> Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
 <BR>
> Since it's<BR>
> owned by the sovereign, normal salvage law may not even apply.<BR>
<BR>
Normal salvage laws do not apply to warships. The theory is that you have<BR>
a duty as a citizen to help the sovereign recover his vessels. Vessels<BR>
(but particularly warships) belonging to a different state are legally<BR>
extraterritorial enclaves, even if derelict. Stealing one is tantamount to<BR>
invading their territory, although among governments themselves the Law of<BR>
the Jungle applies.<BR>
<BR>
Salvage in the Imperium probably follows British law, where all derelicts<BR>
are property of the Lord of the Manor where they are found. Salvage fees<BR>
are established in international law to encourage the rescue of vessels in<BR>
distress (required in the Imperium by the Navigation Act of 103), and to<BR>
discourage piracy by offering an incentive to return the vessel intact.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 14:37:40 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> I prefer my Wsye-75 clone (though there is that $^^%$ problem with<BR>
> power supplies).<BR>
<BR>
Ick!  I hate Wyse terminals, don't see why I'd like a clone any better :^)<BR>
I finally managed to get one of the two I've got to use at work replaced<BR>
with a real DEC terminal.  I've offered to replace the other with one of my<BR>
VT320's for free!<BR>
<BR>
> I also have a terminal that emulates (among other things) an ADM-3<BR>
> (actually, I may have a couple of them, I haven't really checked all<BR>
> the stuff that came with the Xenix box)<BR>
<BR>
Scary :^)<BR>
<BR>
> Eventually, I'll get a Linux box set up, and use the terminals in<BR>
> different spots around the place.<BR>
<BR>
Well, most of mine are used to access the VMS Cluster I've got at home,<BR>
either as a system console or hooked up to a terminal server.  The others<BR>
are hooked up to PDP-11's.  Needless to say I don't trust my data to<BR>
Microsquish products :^)<BR>
<BR>
OB Trav: Considering how hard some systems can be to retrieve data from<BR>
without the correct terminal, and how terminals are likely to be one of the<BR>
first things to go.  The PC's are contacted by a firm that needs either a<BR>
specific drive or terminal for a computer to retrieve vital data.  Or maybe<BR>
it's just a specific chip for the computer that they need.  Of course this <BR>
computer has been around for over 100 years and no one knows where it the <BR>
computer was built, only that it came from off-world. <BR>
<BR>
Sound farfetched?  Not really.  We've got 30-40 year old computers running a<BR>
lot of industrial stuff right now in the US, and parts can be fun to find. <BR>
As for the drive issue, just ask NASA about all those 7-bit 9-Track tapes<BR>
they've got that they can't read and the media is quickly dying.  <BR>
<BR>
			Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:12:59 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Rapira & PMB errata <BR>
<BR>
Oh, the pain, the pain...<BR>
<BR>
Kristian Miller wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >Get ready for the Rapira-E.  Here is a few nits:<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Okay these errors also have marred the PMB APC.  The new data<BR>
(only listing things that have changed) are as follows:<BR>
<BR>
PMB grav IFV<BR>
<BR>
Weight: 305.73 tons.  Cost: Cr 4,349,323.  Cargo: 4 m^3.<BR>
<BR>
Mobility: Maximum: 720 kph/600 cm.  Cruise: 540 kph/450 cm.  NOE:<BR>
140 kph/117 cm.<BR>
<BR>
Armor: Remote mount front & sides: 61.  Remote mount rear: 56.<BR>
<BR>
Vehicle now mounts remote cupola on main turret deck with an <BR>
additional set of Thermal image, Passive IR, and Image enhancement<BR>
sensors.  It can now remain turret down and snoop on the battlefield.<BR>
Use as you see fit.  Reduced cargo space in hull, and reduced armor<BR>
on the remote mount have allowed/caused the changes above.<BR>
<BR>
Everything else is as in my first post.  <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Now, for the corrected Rapira-D  <sigh>:<BR>
<BR>
Weight: 740.42 tons.   Cost: Cr 11,128,883.  Endurance: 10.008 hours.<BR>
Power plant is smaller with fuel consumption now 323.73 l/hr.<BR>
Prismatic anti-laser aerosol cannisters reduced to 263 (163 in turret).<BR>
<BR>
Now also features sensor mast (remote cupola) on turret deck with an<BR>
additional set of Thermal image, Passive IR, & Image enhancement, so<BR>
it can remain turret down behind obstacles and still snoop for targets<BR>
(nice pop-up gambit).<BR>
<BR>
Mobility: When firing its main laser: Maximum 720 kph/600 cm.  Cruise:<BR>
540 kph/450 cm.  NOE: 140 kph/117 cm.  When not firing laser: Maximum:<BR>
840 kph/700 cm.  Cruise: 630 kph/525 cm.  NOE: 140 kph/117 cm.  Above<BR>
stats are for Mongo environment (0.375 G).  Its mobility on standard<BR>
1-G worlds, such as it is, remains the same.<BR>
<BR>
Reduced power-plant (35.97 m^3 & 215.82 MW), and reduction in no. of<BR>
AL-aerosols have enabled/caused above changes.<BR>
<BR>
Other stats remain the same as in previous posts of the Rapira-D.<BR>
<BR>
Note: waste space has changed in both vehicles, but is negligible;<BR>
not enough to do much of anything except -- 0.1984 m^3 are available<BR>
in each design's sensor mast.<BR>
<BR>
As these are both errata, no name changes will be made.<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 17:33:52 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
<BR>
The term "valid" is inappropriate in discussing matters of<BR>
sovereignty, the term "nation" can be also be vague.<BR>
<BR>
The definition of sovereignty is the ability to exercise exclusive<BR>
or supreme control over territory.  Ideas like 'validity' and<BR>
'legitimacy' only reflect the opinions of others (embodied in such<BR>
things as law) and not whether sovereignty exists or does not.<BR>
<BR>
In short, if you can kick everyone else out, its yours.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Mark Urbin writes:<BR>
><BR>
> > The CSA was a valid nation, just not for very long....<BR>
><BR>
> That rather depends on one's definition of 'valid', as it applies to nations.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 01:13:22 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
Because so much of the cultural traffic is one way, that is from the US out to<BR>
the rest of the English speaking world, English speakers from other countries<BR>
often have less difficulty with US idioms and slang than vice versa. This is<BR>
compounded by the fact that American editors (both prose and script) seem to<BR>
have a very low opinion of the American people's ability to suss out words in<BR>
context and insist on 'clarifications' when books and scripts transfer over to<BR>
the US market.<BR>
<BR>
Tangential to that subject - what the hell is a pair of Oxfords (I know they're<BR>
shoes but what kind?)<BR>
<BR>
ObsTrav: Ganglich is probably a Creole (like English itself). The Imperium<BR>
probably promotes a standardised form through its agencies, the SPA, Scouts, the<BR>
Aristocracy etc. Imperial Ganglich probably sounds posh to people speaking their<BR>
own Anglich dialect.<BR>
<BR>
Planets with significant populations, PR6 and up, probably have regional<BR>
sub-dialects as well even at higher tech levels. There doesn't seem to be any<BR>
way to prevent dialects forming and beleive me the French and Germans have<BR>
tried.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Mike Demetro <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 9:35 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > I know a<BR>
> > number of people that complained to me that they could not understand "The<BR>
> > Full Monty" (you wouldn't believe how much I wanted to smack them.)<BR>
><BR>
> I understand. I marvel at my Dad's inability to understand the people on<BR>
> Coronation Street. Of course, I find a lot of those New York accents to be<BR>
> ridiculous, even if I can make them out. I have recently spoken to a few<BR>
> different people as far north in the US as Illinois and they sound very like<BR>
> the people in the South. I never knew that.<BR>
><BR>
> Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
> www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 11:07:06 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
> From: Kristian Miller <BR>
> My Tech Level 8 Mercenaries are gearing up...<BR>
<BR>
TL 8 Mercs versus TL 5 locals?<BR>
<BR>
Let me guess:  the locals are called the Movement for Real Equality - MRE<BR>
for short. <BR>
<BR>
Slightly more seriously:  what kind of vehicles miniatures have you got (TL<BR>
8 and 5)?  It might be fun churning out a couple of designs for them.  Hmm,<BR>
what kind of TL 5 stuff would you use against TL 8?  The problem is that<BR>
there is nothing that would be able to penetrate TL 8 MBT armour....  (Puts<BR>
away TL 10 designs, and stares at blank piece of paper....)  And if the TL<BR>
8 forces have any decent air support, or even helicopters... ick.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:15:20 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
Regarding accents and their associations, I was rather amused recently<BR>
when I read the Oedipus plays of Sophocles and found that all the educated<BR>
folk spoke "normal" english, while the uneducated had Scottish accents.<BR>
The translator was obviously a Brit who was used to thinking of Scots as<BR>
the uneducated types and was probably trying to translate a similar idiom<BR>
from the Greek.  I could see someone using an American south accent the<BR>
same way (not that it's justified, IMO, but that is the unfortunate<BR>
association many have with it).<BR>
<BR>
BTW, these plays are really great, but don't read the "setup" peices at<BR>
the beginning, as this gives the whole story away! <BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: What accents do you use in your games?  My Zhodani are always<BR>
Russian or Germans.  I use southern accents for Tarsans and nobles always<BR>
have foppish british accents of course...<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 22:33:32 -0400<BR>
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
At 10:15 PM 09/08/2000 -0400, Charles C. wrote:<BR>
><SNIP><BR>
>ObTrav: What accents do you use in your games?  My Zhodani are always<BR>
>Russian or Germans.  I use southern accents for Tarsans and nobles always<BR>
>have foppish british accents of course...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
IMTU Joes are always educated Persians; Solimani are US Military, i.e., <BR>
southern accents and lots of tech talk; Brits take the Nobles here, too!<BR>
<BR>
Bill Rutherford<BR>
worj@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:42:54 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
> IMTU Joes are always educated Persians; Solimani are US Military, i.e.,<BR>
> southern accents and lots of tech talk; Brits take the Nobles here, too!<BR>
><BR>
I kind of like Ottoman Turk Zhodani and would never do US soldiers for the<BR>
Imperials unless I wanted my players to hate them.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:04:57 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: [www] 08 Sep 00 - Freelance Traveller Updated (and boy is our face red...)<BR>
<BR>
Last week, we announced a new section in Raconteur's Rest, called And<BR>
Then...<BR>
<BR>
Last week, we posted an update that included that section, but didn't<BR>
include a _link_ to that section from the main Raconteur's Rest page.<BR>
<BR>
This week, our face is quite red, with embarrassment, because we didn't<BR>
notice the goof.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, we fixed the goof.  Go ahead and try taking another look.  The link<BR>
is to And Then... and it's in Raconteur's Rest.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:27:40 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Slightly more seriously:  what kind of vehicles miniatures have<BR>
> you got (TL<BR>
> 8 and 5)?  It might be fun churning out a couple of designs for<BR>
> them.  Hmm,<BR>
> what kind of TL 5 stuff would you use against TL 8?  The problem is that<BR>
> there is nothing that would be able to penetrate TL 8 MBT<BR>
> armour....  (Puts<BR>
> away TL 10 designs, and stares at blank piece of paper....)  And if the TL<BR>
> 8 forces have any decent air support, or even helicopters... ick.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the idea is TL 5 vs. TL 5. I have a number of British Mark IV<BR>
tanks, Mark B light tanks, and Mark IX APCs. The vehicles will probably not<BR>
be designed with Striker, but rather reverse-engineered into Striker terms<BR>
from the characteristics of the real WWI vehicles. I'm not sure that the<BR>
Striker vehicle design system gives you anything close to reality at the<BR>
extremely low TLs. If anyone has time to kill, however,...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 23:42:44 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin:<BR>
<BR>
>Regarding accents and their associations, I was rather amused recently<BR>
>when I read the Oedipus plays of Sophocles and found that all the educated<BR>
>folk spoke "normal" english, while the uneducated had Scottish accents.<BR>
>The translator was obviously a Brit who was used to thinking of Scots as<BR>
>the uneducated types and was probably trying to translate a similar idiom<BR>
>from the Greek.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, you pretty much called it. Although I'm not familiar with a version of<BR>
Sophocles' Theban plays in which the translator employed such a device, I've<BR>
seen it in others.<BR>
<BR>
>I could see someone using an American south accent the<BR>
>same way (not that it's justified, IMO, but that is the unfortunate<BR>
>association many have with it).<BR>
<BR>
I guess it wouldn't surprise you to know that particular device is used from<BR>
time to time on this side of the pond. I recently read a translation of<BR>
"Lysistrata" by Aristophanes in which the Spartans had Southern accents.<BR>
<BR>
>BTW, these plays are really great, but don't read the "setup" peices at<BR>
>the beginning, as this gives the whole story away!<BR>
<BR>
There is a reason why Sophocles is still considered either one of the great<BR>
playwrights, or the greatest playwright of all (depending, of course, on who<BR>
you talk to). I was simply blown away by Antigone. If you're fond of the<BR>
plays of Sophocles, you'll probably enjoy other Greek plays. The works of<BR>
Euripides are also wonderful. I'm partial to "The Bacchae" myself. You'll<BR>
probably enjoy Aeschylus as well. I love "The Eumenides", but both<BR>
"Agamemnon" and "The Libation Bearers" are required to put its message into<BR>
context.<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: What accents do you use in your games?  My Zhodani are always<BR>
>Russian or Germans.  I use southern accents for Tarsans and nobles always<BR>
>have foppish british accents of course...<BR>
<BR>
I used a very bad French accent very briefly for a scout which my players<BR>
were competing with in a scavenger hunt. I'm usually not very good with<BR>
accents. I can do a decent Irish accent, and sometimes a passable Scottish<BR>
accent, but that's about it with the exception of some minor local Philly<BR>
accents.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:03:16 -0500<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
At 12:33 PM 9/8/00, you wrote:<BR>
> >From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
><BR>
> >Wonder how many people write asking what a typewriter is! :^)  It's scary<BR>
> >how many people no longer know that, or what a Phonograph is.<BR>
><BR>
>Everybody knows that a typewriter is direct keyboard input/printer output<BR>
>device.  It has neither monitor nor CPU, and therefore, obviously, does not<BR>
>run software.  It is a very simple design, but very difficult to use<BR>
>effectively.<BR>
><BR>
>--Glenn<BR>
<BR>
Max Headroom Flashback:<BR>
<BR>
Blanc Red (Redge?) standing in doorway holding object talking to girl.<BR>
<BR>
BR: This is a real deal. (or something similar)<BR>
<BR>
Girl: What is it?<BR>
<BR>
BR: It's a book.<BR>
<BR>
Girl: A what?<BR>
<BR>
BR: Book. A non-volatile information storage medium.<BR>
<BR>
A series way ahead of its time.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:30:30 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Regarding accents and their associations, I was rather amused recently<BR>
> when I read the Oedipus plays of Sophocles and found that all the educated<BR>
> folk spoke "normal" english, while the uneducated had Scottish accents.<BR>
<BR>
Try Arrowsmith's translations of Aristophanes.  Heracles speaks Brooklynese.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:32:42 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Wonder how many people write asking what a typewriter is! :^)  It's scary<BR>
> >how many people no longer know that, or what a Phonograph is.<BR>
<BR>
Real World Example:  I was teaching a physics class and an example<BR>
involving a space station came up.  I said, "You know, like Skylab." <BR>
One of the freshmen said, "Skylab?  You mean that thing that fell from<BR>
the sky?"<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 21:48:50 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
><BR>
>>Wonder how many people write asking what a typewriter is! :^)  It's scary<BR>
>>how many people no longer know that, or what a Phonograph is.<BR>
><BR>
> Everybody knows that a typewriter is direct keyboard input/printer output<BR>
> device.  It has neither monitor nor CPU, and therefore, obviously, does not<BR>
> run software.  It is a very simple design, but very difficult to use<BR>
> effectively.<BR>
<BR>
And some are *really* hard to use. I owned a typewriter for a while. An<BR>
IBM Executive. This particular model was notable for having a<BR>
*proportional* typeface. <BR>
<BR>
Different characters were different widths. I had to make a chart,<BR>
giving the widths in terms of how many times I had to press the<BR>
backspace key for a given letter. The widest ("W") took 5. The space<BR>
bar was split in half. One half (labeled 2) gave an "n" space, the<BR>
other (labeled 3) gave an "m" space.<BR>
<BR>
It took some getting used to. And it was great fun watching a friend<BR>
try to use it.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Players trying to use low tech input devices, or even hi-tech<BR>
ones with different "layouts". Ask anybody who's tried using a keyboard<BR>
configured for a different country!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 21:58:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> I prefer my Wsye-75 clone (though there is that $^^%$ problem with<BR>
>> power supplies).<BR>
><BR>
> Ick!  I hate Wyse terminals, don't see why I'd like a clone any better :^)<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's basicly just re-labeled.<BR>
<BR>
> I finally managed to get one of the two I've got to use at work replaced<BR>
> with a real DEC terminal.  I've offered to replace the other with one of my<BR>
> VT320's for free!<BR>
<BR>
I'll take one of them. Well, only if you have the cable and the modular<BR>
to DB-25 adapter.<BR>
<BR>
>> I also have a terminal that emulates (among other things) an ADM-3<BR>
>> (actually, I may have a couple of them, I haven't really checked all<BR>
>> the stuff that came with the Xenix box)<BR>
><BR>
> Scary :^)<BR>
<BR>
I just dug out the manual. It emulates:<BR>
<BR>
	Televideo 910<BR>
	Lear Seigler ADM-5 (oops!)<BR>
	ADDS 25<BR>
	Hazeltine 1410<BR>
<BR>
>> Eventually, I'll get a Linux box set up, and use the terminals in<BR>
>> different spots around the place.<BR>
><BR>
> Well, most of mine are used to access the VMS Cluster I've got at home,<BR>
> either as a system console or hooked up to a terminal server.  The others<BR>
> are hooked up to PDP-11's.  Needless to say I don't trust my data to<BR>
> Microsquish products :^)<BR>
<BR>
I've got a bunch of DEC terminal servers. I'd be willing to trade for<BR>
something that can be used with Linux or OS/2. <BR>
<BR>
> OB Trav: Considering how hard some systems can be to retrieve data from<BR>
> without the correct terminal, and how terminals are likely to be one of the<BR>
> first things to go.  The PC's are contacted by a firm that needs either a<BR>
> specific drive or terminal for a computer to retrieve vital data.  Or maybe<BR>
> it's just a specific chip for the computer that they need.  Of course this <BR>
> computer has been around for over 100 years and no one knows where it the <BR>
> computer was built, only that it came from off-world. <BR>
<BR>
Or the computer is long gone, but they've got drives that will handle<BR>
the media. Only the format isn't compatible. For example, I've got a<BR>
bunch of 5.25" floppies that most modern PCs *cannot* read. They are<BR>
single density, and the FDC in most new computers can't do single<BR>
density. Luckily, it turns out that Adaptec cards that have a floppy<BR>
controller have one that will do single density.<BR>
<BR>
But then you get into stuff like the GCM used by Commodore drives, and<BR>
the weird stuff Apples and Macs use. I've got an old ISA card that goes<BR>
between the floppy and the controller to allow reading those.<BR>
<BR>
> Sound farfetched?  Not really.  We've got 30-40 year old computers running a<BR>
> lot of industrial stuff right now in the US, and parts can be fun to find. <BR>
> As for the drive issue, just ask NASA about all those 7-bit 9-Track tapes<BR>
> they've got that they can't read and the media is quickly dying.  <BR>
<BR>
Yep. I've got to copy a lot of my old data onto modern media. And I<BR>
recall feeling sorry for the guy I encountered in a store (a chain with<BR>
the initials RS) trying to buy a computer. He wanted a system with a<BR>
cassette interface (which they had, this being the late 80s). <BR>
<BR>
I broke in and asked him *why* he wanted cassette. He said he wanted<BR>
to be able to use stuff from the system at work. I pointed out that<BR>
there wasn't a standard for cassette data. And asked what *kind* of<BR>
computer they were using the cassettes with. <BR>
<BR>
It was an IBM PC. I had to tell him that *nothing* but an IBM PC could<BR>
read that data, and that the only way he'd be able to was by finding a<BR>
*used* system, since they hadn't been sold new in 5 years or more. I<BR>
also suggested that he have a talk with his boss, because if they<BR>
didn't get their (in house) program converted to use Floppies, they'd<BR>
lose their data as soon as the system died.<BR>
<BR>
He wasn't real happy. The salesman wasn't too happy about losing the<BR>
sale, but as I pointed out (after the guy left) he'd have had to deal<BR>
with a *very* angry customer when the guy found out he couldn't read<BR>
the tapes. Better to send him off away having been helped, but without<BR>
a sale, than to have to deal with a return...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3021<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3022</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/9/00 8:08:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 9 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3022<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
Re: Rapira & PMB errata<BR>
FRAGO Re: Operation Order: Mongo Civil War<BR>
Famile Spofulam 'Albert Jacka' TL5 Armoured Car<BR>
RE: Max Headroom Flashback (dating yourself...)<BR>
RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
Accents<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 08:54:32 +0100<BR>
Dealing with Bone deterioration.<BR>
[OT] Re: Oxford Shoes<BR>
Re: TNS: Trouble on Heya<BR>
RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
Re: TL 8 Mercs versus TL 5 locals?<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: [OT] Re: Oxford Shoes<BR>
RE: [NONE]<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:27:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Tangential to that subject - what the hell is a pair of Oxfords (I know <BR>
> they're shoes but what kind?)<BR>
<BR>
"dress shoes" or else the white & brown ones.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:35:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> From: Kristian Miller <BR>
>> My Tech Level 8 Mercenaries are gearing up...<BR>
><BR>
> TL 8 Mercs versus TL 5 locals?<BR>
><BR>
> Let me guess:  the locals are called the Movement for Real Equality - MRE<BR>
> for short. <BR>
><BR>
> Slightly more seriously:  what kind of vehicles miniatures have you got (TL<BR>
> 8 and 5)?  It might be fun churning out a couple of designs for them.  Hmm,<BR>
> what kind of TL 5 stuff would you use against TL 8?  The problem is that<BR>
> there is nothing that would be able to penetrate TL 8 MBT armour....  (Puts<BR>
> away TL 10 designs, and stares at blank piece of paper....)  And if the TL<BR>
> 8 forces have any decent air support, or even helicopters... ick.<BR>
<BR>
Discarding sabot rounds are possible at TL-5. Hell, I seem to recall<BR>
that they were even tested, but never used (but I could be wrong).<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, TL 5 tanks are candy for TL-8 ones.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:19:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Underword goes Underseas<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>I'm sure I saw a story in some periodical about a Russian Mafia guy<BR>
>>involved in brokering an old Soviet SSK to some drug runners somewhere.<BR>
><BR>
> You are correct. It happened a couple years ago, around '97. <BR>
<BR>
If I won the lottery, I'd love to own an old Soviet boomer. Only<BR>
problem is that between the permits and the safety overhual it'd need,<BR>
it'd likely be cheaper to build one from scratch. <BR>
<BR>
But lord, it'd almost be worth it to see the looks on the faces of the<BR>
folks in various agencies when I submitted the paperwork. USCG, NRC,<BR>
ATF, god only knows what else...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:35:59 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Rapira & PMB errata<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh, the pain, the pain...<BR>
...<BR>
>  >Get ready for the Rapira-E.  Here is a few nits:<BR>
> <snip><BR>
...<BR>
> Now, for the corrected Rapira-D  <sigh>:<BR>
<BR>
I feel your pain!!  To ease the pain, I'm almost done with a Striker<BR>
design spreadsheet.  Alpha testing will start with the San Jose Group. <BR>
It's sort of slick: radio buttons to make choices, etc.<BR>
<BR>
> Other stats remain the same as in previous posts of the Rapira-D.<BR>
...<BR>
> As these are both errata, no name changes will be made.<BR>
<BR>
But this is MILITARY.  We need something like Rapira D1E1 Block 5 IV<BR>
(Improved Version)! :-)<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:41:29 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: FRAGO Re: Operation Order: Mongo Civil War<BR>
<BR>
FRAGO - WARNING<BR>
<BR>
Operation will commence NLT 11:00 MMT (Mongo Mean Time), 16 September<BR>
2000<BR>
See append to Supply.<BR>
<BR>
Per: MMM-M (Military Management Ministry - Mongo)<BR>
<BR>
> SITUATION:<BR>
> Mongo rebels, having received information about the whereabouts of<BR>
> Ming's hideout, have sent mercenary reconnaissance units to locate<BR>
> Loyalist military units. Loyalist forces are expected to give stiff<BR>
> resistance.<BR>
> <BR>
> MISSION:<BR>
> Rebel forces will attempt to spot all Loyalist forces around Ming's<BR>
> secret base.<BR>
> Loyalist forces must eliminate Rebel reconnaissance units.<BR>
> <BR>
> ENEMY:<BR>
> Loyalist Reinforced Infantry Company (Conscript)<BR>
>         + Loyalist Grav Tank Platoon (Long Service)<BR>
> Loyalist Secret Police Platoon (Picked)<BR>
> ---------------------------------------------------<BR>
> Rebel hired Mercenary Armored Cavalry Troop (Long Service)<BR>
> <BR>
> SUPPLY:<BR>
> Units with support units represented on the table, or in base, are at<BR>
> 100% supply; units with off table support units represented are at 75%<BR>
> supply; units with no miniature representation of support units are at<BR>
> 50% supply.<BR>
<BR>
Amendment:<BR>
Personnel requiring overnight quarters will be lodged in comfortable<BR>
civilian quarters.<BR>
Rations will be provided per SOP BBQ.<BR>
<BR>
> COMMAND & CONTROL:<BR>
> Due to strong air defense possessed by both sides, no unit may fly in<BR>
> high mode.<BR>
> Loyalist forces start within 50 cm of base (in 100% supply).<BR>
> Rebel forces start within 10 cm of short end of table opposite base.<BR>
> Radio silence is not in effect.<BR>
Attack will start NLT 11:00 MMT, 16 September 2000<BR>
> CommandInterWeb requests should be directed to:<BR>
> travellerne@3rd-imperium.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 16:48:17 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Famile Spofulam 'Albert Jacka' TL5 Armoured Car<BR>
<BR>
> From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
> Subject: TL 5 miniatures<BR>
><BR>
> ...<BR>
> >I see that Luther really wants to use the TL 5 miniatures he recently<BR>
> >acquired.<BR>
><BR>
>   TL 5:<BR>
>   "Yes, you said that the salesmen not only offered you an extra cash<BR>
> discount, but pointed out that quantity has a quality all its own. But<BR>
> that doesn't change the fact that you were mentally defective to sign!"<BR>
<BR>
Thats a challenge, that is ...<BR>
<BR>
Presenting the TL5 'Albert Jacka' class Open Armoured Car by Famile Spofulam<BR>
<BR>
Featuring an open-mount TL5 30 millimeter autocannon capable of punching<BR>
TL12 combat armour or knocking down TL8 helicopters at one kilometer, the FS<BR>
Albert Jacka is a hydrocarbon-powered dirtcrusher that can provide a nasty<BR>
shock for higher-TL forces intruding on your soveriegnty.<BR>
<BR>
Capable of 50 kmh-1 on metalled roads, the Albert Jacka is adequatley<BR>
capable off-road, and can carry troops via a number of conventient<BR>
handholds.<BR>
<BR>
Defensively, it is capable of absorbing small arms fire from anything up to<BR>
a PGMP-12, although avoiding artillery fire and shaped-charge weaponary is<BR>
highly advised.<BR>
<BR>
And all this including a full load of KEAP ammunition for a mere Cr 500<BR>
Imperial (KCr25 in TL5 credits).<BR>
<BR>
**********<BR>
<BR>
Turret : 1m x 2m x 1m<BR>
<BR>
Contains:<BR>
<BR>
TL5 30mm Hyper Vel Autocannon ; Gas operated, 1 barrel ; 0.21 t, KCr 12<BR>
<BR>
[KEAP rounds ; 0.8 kg, Cr 3.2, Pen 11/9/7 (ammo is Cr 4 per kilo) ; range<BR>
0.6/1.0/2.5 km<BR>
<BR>
Max ROF : 80 (64 kg ammo per phase; gives +4/+3/+1)]<BR>
<BR>
640 kg ammo ; 0.64 m3, 0.64t, KCr 2.5 (10 phases of fire)<BR>
<BR>
0.15 m3 Soft Steel armour ; 0.15 m3, 1.2t, KCr 0.24 (front 5cm[AF15], sides<BR>
and back 2cm[AF6])<BR>
<BR>
1 m3 of Gunner space<BR>
**<BR>
<BR>
200 kW Int Comb engine ; 1.34 m3, 1.34t, KCr 1.34<BR>
<BR>
600 l fuel (3 hours) ; 0.6 m3, 0.6t<BR>
<BR>
200 kW wheeled transmission ; 0.6 m3, 0.6 t, KCr 0.6<BR>
<BR>
3 m3 wheeled suspension ; 3t, 3 m3, KCr 3.75<BR>
<BR>
Gunner+Driver ; 4m3, 0.4t, KCr 0.2<BR>
<BR>
0.6 m3 armour ; 0.6 m3, 4.8t, KCr 2.4 <open-topped. 5cm front [AF 15], 2cm<BR>
sides and back [AF6], 0.7cm underbody [AF2]><BR>
<BR>
4.5m x 3m x 1.25 m dimensions (16.875 m3)<BR>
<BR>
Vehicle mass: 13.4 t ; power to weight ratio is 15 (50 kph on road, 12.5 kph<BR>
off road), ground pressure is 5<BR>
<BR>
Cost is KCr 25, including a small profit margin for Famile Spofulam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 07:56:53 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Max Headroom Flashback (dating yourself...)<BR>
<BR>
> Max Headroom Flashback:<BR>
> <BR>
> Blanc Red (Redge?) standing in doorway holding object talking to girl.<BR>
> <BR>
> BR: This is a real deal. (or something similar)<BR>
> <BR>
> Girl: What is it?<BR>
> <BR>
> BR: It's a book.<BR>
> <BR>
> Girl: A what?<BR>
> <BR>
> BR: Book. A non-volatile information storage medium.<BR>
> <BR>
> A series way ahead of its time.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Agreed, Max Headroom kicked bottom. I'm lucky enough to have both series on<BR>
VHS (UK Sci-fi channel ran it about 2 years ago). You got the pronunciation<BR>
above correct, but it's 'Blank Reg.'...he'd arranged to get all his computer<BR>
records erased so he was a 'Blank' , and Reg was a Brit, and we spell funny<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 08:00:10 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> ObTrav: What accents do you use in your games?  My Zhodani are always<BR>
> Russian or Germans.  I use southern accents for Tarsans and <BR>
> nobles always<BR>
> have foppish british accents of course...<BR>
> <BR>
> Charles C.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I'm terrible at accents, so everyone has either a home counties or London<BR>
accent, and even the the line blurs :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 03:12:11 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Accents<BR>
<BR>
Charles C. asks:<BR>
<BR>
>What accents do you use in your games?  My Zhodani are always<BR>
>Russian or Germans.  I use southern accents for Tarsans and nobles always<BR>
>have foppish british accents of course...<BR>
<BR>
 Not all of our nobles are *foppish* brits. Our regular Ref is also a <BR>
RenFaire puritan and SCA knight. He can do the cold, hard noble very well...<BR>
<BR>
 Our Zhodani tend to use sparse Russian or German accents with clipped words, <BR>
as Zdetl tends to underuse vowels and the tendency would carry over. The pros <BR>
are accentless, since the Zhodani field agents are often perfectionists as <BR>
well...<BR>
<BR>
 Swordworlders are often "walking insults to the Swedish race" (as an old <BR>
Justice Inc. supplement put it). Upper class Loonies (er, "citizens of <BR>
Lunion") tend toward slight French accents, but largely as an affectation, <BR>
and the rest of Lunion (as well as Mora and Rhylanor, the two other central <BR>
cosmopolitan worlds of the Marches) tends toward accentless speech (at least <BR>
to each other).<BR>
<BR>
 The folks on Rech (one of my pet worlds well before the Landgrab) tend to <BR>
mix a limited local sign language into their speech patterns, and also speak <BR>
with a high degree of articulation. Both are due to the lifelong use of <BR>
filter masks...<BR>
<BR>
Anyone else?<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 08:54:32 +0100<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 08:54:32 +0100<BR>
<BR>
Ben wrote...<BR>
<BR>
>Tangential to that subject - what the hell is a pair of Oxfords (I know they're<BR>
>shoes but what kind?)<BR>
<BR>
I do believe, Sir, that they are trousers, as in Oxford Bags. Baggy trousers<BR>
quite common IIRC in the 40s -50s.<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 09:09:48 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: Dealing with Bone deterioration.<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone seen this New Scientist article on how Broccoli might be the<BR>
thing to keep astronauts healthy?<BR>
<BR>
http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns225553<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 03:09:05 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: [OT] Re: Oxford Shoes<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ben wrote...<BR>
><BR>
> >Tangential to that subject - what the hell is a pair of Oxfords (I know they're<BR>
> >shoes but what kind?)<BR>
><BR>
> I do believe, Sir, that they are trousers, as in Oxford Bags. Baggy trousers<BR>
> quite common IIRC in the 40s -50s.<BR>
<BR>
Shoes too.<BR>
<BR>
Dictionary.com has this for "oxford" or "oxford tie":<BR>
1. A sturdy, low shoe that laces over the instep.<BR>
<BR>
None of the ones I ever saw had laces on the instep, they were suede-like<BR>
and always light brown or tan.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 01:48:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: TNS: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 9 Sep 2000 11:07:06 +1000, "Alan Bradley" <BR>
<alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > My Tech Level 8 Mercenaries are gearing up...<BR>
><BR>
>TL 8 Mercs versus TL 5 locals?<BR>
>Let me guess:  the locals are called the Movement for Real Equality - MRE<BR>
>for short.<BR>
<BR>
Try NVA.  Still laughing?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:07:35 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
> From: Luther Martin <BR>
> Actually, the idea is TL 5 vs. TL 5. I have a number of British Mark IV<BR>
> tanks, Mark B light tanks, and Mark IX APCs. The vehicles will probably<BR>
not<BR>
> be designed with Striker, but rather reverse-engineered into Striker<BR>
terms<BR>
> from the characteristics of the real WWI vehicles. I'm not sure that the<BR>
> Striker vehicle design system gives you anything close to reality at the<BR>
> extremely low TLs. If anyone has time to kill, however,...<BR>
<BR>
Some of the early WWII vehicles can pass for TL 5, too.  In particular the<BR>
armoured cars, some trucks, light tanks and artillery, plus stuff like<BR>
Universal/Bren Carriers and their equivalents.  Of course, if you want to<BR>
play strict WWI, then go ahead!  Don't forget animal power, either...<BR>
<BR>
Of course, mixing higher tech mercs in is a good thing to do, once you have<BR>
played a couple of the TL 5 games.  Working out how to get the most effect<BR>
from the least high-tech gear could be quite a lot of fun.<BR>
<BR>
I think I might try a couple of TL 5 designs, probably starting with a<BR>
Universal Carrier, or else a fully enclosed version.  This is a good base<BR>
to stick neato gadgets like imported high-tech tac missiles onto.<BR>
<BR>
Exchange rates are killers for imported gear.  I looked at what air/rafts<BR>
are likely to cost on TL 5 worlds.  Phew!<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 05:16:00 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Slightly more seriously:  what kind of vehicles miniatures have<BR>
> > you got (TL<BR>
> > 8 and 5)?  It might be fun churning out a couple of designs for<BR>
> > them.  Hmm,<BR>
> > what kind of TL 5 stuff would you use against TL 8?  The problem is that<BR>
> > there is nothing that would be able to penetrate TL 8 MBT<BR>
> > armour....  (Puts<BR>
> > away TL 10 designs, and stares at blank piece of paper....)  And if the TL<BR>
> > 8 forces have any decent air support, or even helicopters... ick.<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, the idea is TL 5 vs. TL 5. I have a number of British Mark IV<BR>
> tanks, Mark B light tanks, and Mark IX APCs. The vehicles will probably not<BR>
> be designed with Striker, but rather reverse-engineered into Striker terms<BR>
> from the characteristics of the real WWI vehicles. I'm not sure that the<BR>
> Striker vehicle design system gives you anything close to reality at the<BR>
> extremely low TLs. If anyone has time to kill, however,...<BR>
<BR>
Well, if you gave in to heresy and played Striker II, you might be able<BR>
to use the WW II designs from Command Decision.  ISTR that there were<BR>
also CD designs for WW I vehicles listed somewhere....<BR>
<BR>
That way, you could even integrate the TL 7-8 designs from Combined<BR>
Arms, plus the TL 9+ designs for Striker II.  It would take some<BR>
fudging, but the various games are all based on the same systems.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 14:18:09 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Christopher Thrash" <thrash@io.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 10:15 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:20:27 -0700<BR>
> From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
> Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
> Since it's<BR>
> owned by the sovereign, normal salvage law may not even apply.<BR>
>><BR>
Normal salvage laws do not apply to warships. The theory is that you have<BR>
a duty as a citizen to help the sovereign recover his vessels. Vessels<BR>
(but particularly warships) belonging to a different state are legally<BR>
extraterritorial enclaves, even if derelict. Stealing one is tantamount to<BR>
invading their territory, although among governments themselves the Law of<BR>
the Jungle applies.<BR>
<BR>
Salvage in the Imperium probably follows British law, where all derelicts<BR>
are property of the Lord of the Manor where they are found. Salvage fees<BR>
are established in international law to encourage the rescue of vessels in<BR>
distress (required in the Imperium by the Navigation Act of 103), and to<BR>
discourage piracy by offering an incentive to return the vessel intact.<BR>
<BR>
<<<BR>
Surely there must be a point at which, the item being left as an hulk in<BR>
space, is no longer redeamable to the paries which at first it belonged too,<BR>
this point being, where the cost for search and recovery, of such an item ,<BR>
is no longer vialble. At this point, salvage by another party has to be<BR>
valid.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 06:58:10 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: TL 8 Mercs versus TL 5 locals?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
...<BR>
>Slightly more seriously:  what kind of vehicles miniatures have you got (TL<BR>
>8 and 5)?  It might be fun churning out a couple of designs for them.  Hmm,<BR>
>what kind of TL 5 stuff would you use against TL 8?  The problem is that<BR>
>there is nothing that would be able to penetrate TL 8 MBT armour....  (Puts<BR>
<BR>
  _Frontal_ TL 8 MBT armour, perhaps - except that nothing stops the locals<BR>
from mounting 8" high-velocity cannons on their land ironclads :> <BR>
<BR>
  Or just waiting for off-board artillery to score a contact hit and send<BR>
them to hell while they try and chew through cowering infantry - rolling<BR>
over them carelessly is insane if they've invented satchel charges :|<BR>
<BR>
>away TL 10 designs, and stares at blank piece of paper....)  And if the TL<BR>
>8 forces have any decent air support, or even helicopters... ick.<BR>
<BR>
  Not a surprise, but not one-sided if enough Cr are available to buy low-<BR>
tech gear; a cannon with lousy fire control may have trouble hitting a<BR>
chopper, but if it's high-velocity KEAP(/ER) it can still make goo of it.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 07:40:31 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Exchange rates are killers for imported gear.  I looked at what air/rafts<BR>
> are likely to cost on TL 5 worlds.  Phew!<BR>
<BR>
That would make a good part for an ongoing Striker campaign.  Sure the<BR>
initial battles would start with local TL 5 stuff and imported stuff. <BR>
Then, when the need for troops trained at to use the higher tech stuff<BR>
arose, they'd just be hired from off world (one of the basis for<BR>
"Mercenary").  I'd probably adjust the salary of the off world<BR>
mercenaries to match the difference in tech level as well.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure Imperial worlds have military equipment at TL higher than the<BR>
listed.  A planet's local production capability might be limited to<BR>
certain technology, but it would be cheaper to import (even at the high<BR>
exchange rate) than to wait and spend the money to develop it locally.<BR>
<BR>
Still, a pure TL 5 combat will be fun.  I'm trying to decide on a unit<BR>
to field for that game: KV-I's (heavy and slow), railroad artillery<BR>
(real low rate of fire), indigenous draft animal cavalry, biplanes...<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 10:58:01 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
>I used a very bad French accent very briefly for a scout which my players<BR>
>were competing with in a scavenger hunt. I'm usually not very good with<BR>
>accents. I can do a decent Irish accent, and sometimes a passable Scottish<BR>
>accent, but that's about it with the exception of some minor local Philly<BR>
>accents.<BR>
<BR>
The fellow's name wouldn't be Jacques Frontage? <BR>
We have a bunch of roads in Minnesota named after him.<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------[IMTU]-----------------------------<BR>
Held within the pressure dome, a-top Olympus Mons.<BR>
I taste my bitter triumph, as the mad assembly-man.<BR>
Nevermore shall I return, escape these caves of vice!<BR>
For I have used tax revenue, to court the vote of parasites.<BR>
<BR>
- -- Author Unknown, Cultural Archives, University of Freya<BR>
- ------------------------[IMTU]------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 07:52:50 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
on 9/9/00 12:54 AM, Derrick Jones at dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ben wrote...<BR>
> <BR>
>> Tangential to that subject - what the hell is a pair of Oxfords (I know<BR>
>> they're<BR>
>> shoes but what kind?)<BR>
> <BR>
> I do believe, Sir, that they are trousers, as in Oxford Bags. Baggy trousers<BR>
> quite common IIRC in the 40s -50s.<BR>
> <BR>
> Regards<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Oxfords are also a type of glasses that clip to the nose (like pince nez).<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 15:54:09 +0100<BR>
From: "Raymond Pullar" <Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
The discussion of salvage rights is quite interesting but, getting back to<BR>
the question that was originally posed, concerning the consequences of<BR>
salvaging the Kinunir, no one seems to have taken account of the fact that<BR>
there is an Imperial Warrant, signed by Strephon himself, in an envelope, in<BR>
the Captain's stateroom, onboard that vessel. Once the PCs find that<BR>
Warrant, I think that all issues of ownership of the vessel will become<BR>
moot. It may well remain the property of the Sovereign, Emperor Strephon,<BR>
but as the PCs will have a document authorising them to act as his agents<BR>
they should be able to retain control of the vessel simply by muttering<BR>
darkly to any inquisitive Imperial bureacrats about the safety of the<BR>
Imperium, their need to know, acting in the service of the Emperor etc.<BR>
<BR>
I've always been curious about exactly why the Kinunir's Captain had an<BR>
Imperial Warrant in his possession and, as far as I know, its presence<BR>
onboard the ship has never been explained. Anyone have any ideas?<BR>
<BR>
I'm also curious about whether anyone ever had any of their players actually<BR>
recover the Kinunir and end up with the Imperial Warrant in their<BR>
possession. That document would seem to be a nightmare for any Ref to have<BR>
to cope with, as it allows to players to get away with just about anything.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ray Pullar<BR>
ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk<BR>
"Man is something that should be overcome.  What have you done to overcome<BR>
him?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 06:39:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Oxford Shoes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Dictionary.com has this for "oxford" or "oxford tie":<BR>
> 1. A sturdy, low shoe that laces over the instep.<BR>
><BR>
> None of the ones I ever saw had laces on the instep, they were suede-like<BR>
> and always light brown or tan.<BR>
<BR>
Not *on* the instep, "over". In other words, they don't lace on the<BR>
lower leg, or on the side (as many shoes did at one time). Nor do they<BR>
button on the side (which is what buttonhooks were used for. Making it<BR>
easier to button your shoes) <BR>
<BR>
In that particular usage "instep" is the *top* of your foot, between<BR>
the toes and ankle.<BR>
<BR>
So an "oxford" is an ordinary men's "dress shoe". <BR>
<BR>
> bloo<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat,  9 Sep 2000 08:06:02 -0700<BR>
From: toganni@earthlink.net<BR>
Subject: RE: [NONE]<BR>
<BR>
Oxfords are also indeed shoes.  The Navy Oxford is a black leather<BR>
shoe, with rounded toe and smooth black leather, shined to a<BR>
high gloss.  It is the typical military dress shoe.  Other shoes<BR>
are made of the same style, but of a different material that<BR>
doesn't require polish (We call them coroframs, but I am not<BR>
sure of the spelling and would be lying if I said I know more<BR>
than that - I just bought them because they look great and I<BR>
don't have to polish them for parades and inspections)<BR>
<BR>
- --- Original Message ---<BR>
"Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com> Wrote on <BR>
Sat, 9 Sep 2000 08:54:32 +0100<BR>
 ------------------ <BR>
Ben wrote...<BR>
<BR>
>Tangential to that subject - what the hell is a pair of Oxfords<BR>
(I know they're<BR>
>shoes but what kind?)<BR>
<BR>
I do believe, Sir, that they are trousers, as in Oxford Bags.<BR>
Baggy trousers<BR>
quite common IIRC in the 40s -50s.<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----<BR>
Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html )<BR>
The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3022<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3023</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 9 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3023<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: [NONE]<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: Striker at TL 5<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: Salvage<BR>
RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants) - SPOILER for CT adventure 1!!!<BR>
Re: TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
RE: <BR>
RE: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
Re: RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
RE: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat,  9 Sep 2000 08:06:03 -0700<BR>
From: toganni@earthlink.net<BR>
Subject: RE: [NONE]<BR>
<BR>
Oxfords are also indeed shoes.  The Navy Oxford is a black leather<BR>
shoe, with rounded toe and smooth black leather, shined to a<BR>
high gloss.  It is the typical military dress shoe.  Other shoes<BR>
are made of the same style, but of a different material that<BR>
doesn't require polish (We call them coroframs, but I am not<BR>
sure of the spelling and would be lying if I said I know more<BR>
than that - I just bought them because they look great and I<BR>
don't have to polish them for parades and inspections)<BR>
<BR>
- --- Original Message ---<BR>
"Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com> Wrote on <BR>
Sat, 9 Sep 2000 08:54:32 +0100<BR>
 ------------------ <BR>
Ben wrote...<BR>
<BR>
>Tangential to that subject - what the hell is a pair of Oxfords<BR>
(I know they're<BR>
>shoes but what kind?)<BR>
<BR>
I do believe, Sir, that they are trousers, as in Oxford Bags.<BR>
Baggy trousers<BR>
quite common IIRC in the 40s -50s.<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----<BR>
Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html )<BR>
The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 11:10:37 -0400<BR>
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
At 08:54 AM 09/09/2000 +0100, Derrick wrote:<BR>
>Ben wrote...<BR>
><BR>
> >Tangential to that subject - what the hell is a pair of Oxfords (I know <BR>
> they're<BR>
> >shoes but what kind?)<BR>
><BR>
>I do believe, Sir, that they are trousers, as in Oxford Bags. Baggy trousers<BR>
>quite common IIRC in the 40s -50s.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Uhh... Oxfords are low, plain, laced-up shoes - take a look at ANY pictures <BR>
of US military in non-field uniform - the low black shoes they wear are <BR>
oxfords...  Typically 4 or 5 lace eyelets per side.  A good pair of leather <BR>
oxfords (not Corframs!) will last for years and are very comfortable...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bill Rutherford<BR>
worj@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 11:56:00 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/9/00 9:55:19 AM Central Daylight Time, <BR>
Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <BR>
 I've always been curious about exactly why the Kinunir's Captain had an<BR>
 Imperial Warrant in his possession and, as far as I know, its presence<BR>
 onboard the ship has never been explained. Anyone have any ideas?<BR>
 <BR>
  >><BR>
Norris requerted help for the upcoming Fifth Frontier War and the Emperor <BR>
sent him one.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 09:21:24 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
>From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
...<BR>
>from the characteristics of the real WWI vehicles. I'm not sure that the<BR>
>Striker vehicle design system gives you anything close to reality at the<BR>
>extremely low TLs. If anyone has time to kill, however,...<BR>
<BR>
  The suspension and crew volume table info will help, especially if you<BR>
don't use turrets - they'll be big just to fit those components. The power <BR>
plant and transmission volumes will also add up alarmingly.<BR>
<BR>
  OTOH, you won't get the extra-large crews needed by primitive machinery,<BR>
but then you shouldn't, as these people have mature TL 5 tech and/or are<BR>
aware of the alternatives?<BR>
  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 09:41:31 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker at TL 5<BR>
<BR>
>From: Luther Martin <lwmarti@pacbell.net><BR>
>Subject: Striker at TL 5 (was RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya)<BR>
...<BR>
>Actually, I should have enough TL 5 miniatures to play a few concurrent<BR>
>games! I just bought about 80 WWI miniatures from Steve Hudson: tanks, light<BR>
>tanks, and APCs. Steve has quite a collection of Scotia miniatures which he<BR>
>is trying to unload. And at $0.25 each, you can't have too many.<BR>
<BR>
  You wouldn't say that if you had to store the damned things until you<BR>
trade them for board-games, SF mini's, or Trav books :><BR>
<BR>
>The only alternative for WWI micro-scale vehicles seems to be Irregular. Can<BR>
>anyone vouch for the quality of this line? How do they compare to Scotia?<BR>
<BR>
  Their WW-I "Division" bags are OK at best - we got ours _really_ cheap.<BR>
I've no idea about their current product - these are very old.<BR>
<BR>
  OTOH, there's TL ~4 - _someone_ does a nice Mission set with both sides<BR>
for playing the Alamo; a good 2.5+ kilos in 6mm, and around $60 US for<BR>
the old lead version - I was glad to be rid of that boat-anchor :>  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 13:26:09 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
> I do believe, Sir, that they are trousers, as in Oxford Bags. Baggy<BR>
trousers<BR>
> quite common IIRC in the 40s -50s.<BR>
><BR>
No, Oxford Bags are different from oxfords which ARE shoes. They are those<BR>
very conservative type shoes, I have to think back a bit more to recall the<BR>
look.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 13:07:14 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> types:<BR>
>Mark Urbin writes:<BR>
> > The CSA was a valid nation, just not for very long....<BR>
>That rather depends on one's definition of 'valid', as it applies to nations.<BR>
<BR>
It had a government, a set of written laws, armed forces, and was <BR>
recognized by other governments.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
"The Clintonites, like pod people from a "Star Trek" adventure, have peeled<BR>
off the thin layer of centrist rhetoric that they wore for the presidential<BR>
campaign. We now learn that they are people genetically bred to inhabit the<BR>
public sector. Their oxygen source is the moisture of taxes, which are <BR>
remitted<BR>
by the aliens in the private sector." -- Wall Street Journal February 19, 1993<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 13:55:52 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
By the way,<BR>
<BR>
Corfams (not Coroframs) are oxfords made with artificial leather (takes a <BR>
high shine; very popular with the military). Corfam is DuPont's trade name <BR>
for its artifical leather.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 15:20:40 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Salvage<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 14:18:09 +0100<BR>
>From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
><BR>
>Surely there must be a point at which, the item being left as an hulk in<BR>
>space, is no longer redeamable to the paries which at first it belonged too,<BR>
>this point being, where the cost for search and recovery, of such an item ,<BR>
>is no longer vialble. At this point, salvage by another party has to be<BR>
>valid.<BR>
<BR>
Probably about the time that the work ceases to be "salvage" and starts to<BR>
be "archaeology" -- i.e., when the vessel is no longer of any use but<BR>
academic interest. You've created a tautology, however: if the cost of<BR>
search and recovery is prohibitive for the original owners, it will be so<BR>
for all other parties; if possible for other parties, then possible for the<BR>
owners as well.<BR>
<BR>
Governments are notoriously jealous of their property, and their<BR>
prerogatives. They also (the US counter-example to the contrary not<BR>
withstanding) have extremely long memories. For private owners, on the<BR>
other hand, you have only to outlast anyone with a creditable claim -- but<BR>
insurance underwriters never forget, either. <BR>
<BR>
There is also the public safety consideration: would you feel comfortable<BR>
allowing any random group of aggressive-psychopathic "ladies and gentlemen<BR>
of fortune" to keep a Cold War-vintage submarine that they managed to raise<BR>
from the bottom, especially if it seems likely they intend to fix it up and<BR>
operate it? How about one equipped with nuclear-tipped torpedoes?<BR>
<BR>
/Kinunir/ had three Weapons of Mass Destruction-equivalents onboard (not to<BR>
mention actual nuclear warheads): the Black Globe, the AI computer system<BR>
(insane or no), and the Imperial Warrant. Unauthorized possession of any<BR>
one of the three is probably a High Crime. The "salvors" will be lucky they<BR>
don't wind up on another /Kinunir/-class -- the /Gaesh/ -- and without<BR>
their one phone call. <BR>
<BR>
I don't imagine that just anyone can get away with flourishing an Imperial<BR>
Warrant and demanding instant obediance. What if someone picked the<BR>
Imperial Envoy's pocket, or robbed her suite at the TAS Hostel? As with<BR>
many other shady deals, the key is to look and act like you know what<BR>
you're doing. If the authorities know that there is a Warrant on /Kinunir/<BR>
and then trespassers try to use that same Warrant as a Get Out of Jail Free<BR>
card, however, I don't think it will fly. The only hope is that no one<BR>
knows it's there.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 13:09:23 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
John Groth wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, if you gave in to heresy and played Striker II, you might be able<BR>
> to use the WW II designs from Command Decision.  ISTR that there were<BR>
> also CD designs for WW I vehicles listed somewhere....<BR>
<BR>
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I have a copy of Striker II, but I have never looked at it. I feel<BR>
particularly bad about this, since I like to /play/ wargames rather than<BR>
collect them. I have heard, however, that the book is maddeningly full of<BR>
omissions and typos, although this has all been from the Internet; I have<BR>
never actually met anyone who had experience playing with Striker II. It<BR>
would probably be interesting to compare the two systems. But if the system<BR>
is anything like TNE, I probably will not have the patience for it. I am<BR>
reminded of an Economics professor's story of one his WWII combat veteran<BR>
friends running in terror from an accounting exam. Some people can handle<BR>
that level of detail, some of us can't.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 16:01:46 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> John Groth wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Well, if you gave in to heresy and played Striker II, you might be able<BR>
> > to use the WW II designs from Command Decision.  ISTR that there were<BR>
> > also CD designs for WW I vehicles listed somewhere....<BR>
> <BR>
> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, I have a copy of Striker II, but I have never looked at it. I feel<BR>
> particularly bad about this, since I like to /play/ wargames rather than<BR>
> collect them. I have heard, however, that the book is maddeningly full of<BR>
> omissions and typos, although this has all been from the Internet; I have<BR>
> never actually met anyone who had experience playing with Striker II. It<BR>
> would probably be interesting to compare the two systems. But if the system<BR>
> is anything like TNE, I probably will not have the patience for it.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the system is relatively simple.  Damage is tracked by colored<BR>
markers placed by the unit.  Elite personnel stands can continue<BR>
fighting after taking one (Green) or two (Yellow) hits, are forced back<BR>
and pinned when hit for the third (Red) time, and eliminated on the<BR>
fourth hit (the stand is removed, and becomes available for<BR>
regrouping).  Experienced units, OTOH, are forced back and pinned after<BR>
their first hit (they immediately receive a Red marker) and eliminated<BR>
on the second hit.  Vehicles suffer one hit for an attack that exceeds<BR>
their armor by 1-3, two hits for an attack that exceeds armor by 4-6,<BR>
and blow up spectacularly from an attack that exceeds their armor by 7<BR>
or more.<BR>
<BR>
The command system is simple and elegant, and combat hinges as much on<BR>
troop quality as on equipment.  The command system even works to reduce<BR>
the "two-mile-tall commander" problem in most wargames, by limiting the<BR>
placement of order chits.<BR>
<BR>
Note that there are stats for vehicles from TL 5 to TL 15, and for<BR>
infantry weapons from TL 0 to TL 15.<BR>
<BR>
Admittedly, I had the advantage of learning the basic system from<BR>
veteran (in both senses) players of Command Decision.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 21:08:56 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants) - SPOILER for CT adventure 1!!!<BR>
<BR>
Not sure if you need to give spoiler warnings for an adventure<BR>
published 20 years ago, but what the heck  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 15:54:09 +0100<BR>
>From: "Raymond Pullar" <Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
>I'm also curious about whether anyone ever had any of their players actually<BR>
>recover the Kinunir and end up with the Imperial Warrant in their<BR>
>possession. <BR>
<BR>
I got the impression that's what Duke Norris did, more or less...  TAS<BR>
reports at the time of the 5FW describe him as disappearing from<BR>
public view for a time (supposedly "ill"), then reappearing<BR>
brandishing an Imperial Warrant which he used to relieve Santanocheev<BR>
of command and take over himself.  In his memoirs (in Survival Margin)<BR>
Norris mentions that this use of the warrant was not authorised by<BR>
Strephon.  Seems likely to me that while he was allegedly ill, Norris<BR>
and a group of trusty companions were actually poking about in the<BR>
Shionthy belt searching for the Kinunir...  What isn't clear is<BR>
whether Norris knew the Warrant would be there - his comment about<BR>
Strephon indicates that the Warrant wasn't addressed to him, but maybe<BR>
he'd heard that it was being despatched for someone else (like<BR>
Santanocheev?...)<BR>
<BR>
and yes, I remember playing Adventure One all those years ago, and at<BR>
the end after we'd defeated Virus^H^H^H^H^H the rogue AI and had<BR>
control of the Kinunir, one of the group turned to the rest of us and<BR>
said (with great glee) "With this ship we can take over the Imperium!"<BR>
<BR>
Ah, the innocent days before any of us had read High Guard or seen a<BR>
map of the entire Imperium...<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 07:09:58 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
> From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
><BR>
> That would make a good part for an ongoing Striker campaign.  Sure the<BR>
> initial battles would start with local TL 5 stuff and imported stuff.<BR>
> Then, when the need for troops trained at to use the higher tech stuff<BR>
> arose, they'd just be hired from off world (one of the basis for<BR>
> "Mercenary").  I'd probably adjust the salary of the off world<BR>
> mercenaries to match the difference in tech level as well.<BR>
<BR>
Note that this cuts both ways. You can get Picked TL5 troops armed with good<BR>
old BARs to provide the Rifle sections for a mixed TL5/9 force for a mere<BR>
KCr 5 a man a year in TL9 credits (assuming 2 class C starports). The EWOs,<BR>
Artillery Spotters and so on in the Weapons Section would be TL9.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I'm sure Imperial worlds have military equipment at TL higher than the<BR>
> listed.  A planet's local production capability might be limited to<BR>
> certain technology, but it would be cheaper to import (even at the high<BR>
> exchange rate) than to wait and spend the money to develop it locally.<BR>
<BR>
Yes. Incidentally, this means you miss all the spinoffs from developing<BR>
military technology ...speaking of inferior military technology, satchel<BR>
charges dont appear to be directly covered.<BR>
<BR>
A four-kilo Shaped Demolition Charge counts as a HEAP mine (rule 56D3). HEAP<BR>
is a TL6 technology, so a TL6 4 kg satchel charge worth Cr 12 counts as a<BR>
65mm HEAP round, for a penetration of 21 (NB a 5 kilo TL9 Satchel charge<BR>
worth Cr 15 can penetrate the belly armour of a Rapira-D).<BR>
<BR>
Me, I'd treat them as Hand Grenades in actual combat, probably making the<BR>
user make 2 Morale Checks before going into HTH with a tank.<BR>
<BR>
The other option, of course, is just to import TL9 HEAP hand grenades (Cr 15<BR>
in TL9 credits, or Cr 150 in TL5 credits - hmmm, the cost of a revolver),<BR>
which also have penetration of 21.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Still, a pure TL 5 combat will be fun.  I'm trying to decide on a unit<BR>
> to field for that game: KV-I's (heavy and slow), railroad artillery<BR>
> (real low rate of fire), indigenous draft animal cavalry, biplanes...<BR>
<BR>
Dont knock indigenous draft animals. A 600 kg animal can trot with a 100 kg<BR>
trooper, plus 80 kg of ATGMs ... an Anti-Armour Cavalry Section of Tube,<BR>
Reloads, Comms and a TL5 Local Transport Specialist.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 14:25:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
At 07:09 AM 9/10/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
>> From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
<BR>
>> I'm sure Imperial worlds have military equipment at TL higher than the<BR>
>> listed.  A planet's local production capability might be limited to<BR>
>> certain technology, but it would be cheaper to import (even at the high<BR>
>> exchange rate) than to wait and spend the money to develop it locally.<BR>
><BR>
>Yes. Incidentally, this means you miss all the spinoffs from developing<BR>
>military technology ...speaking of inferior military technology, satchel<BR>
>charges dont appear to be directly covered.<BR>
<BR>
Spoiler for Ground Forces<BR>
<BR>
Local defense units are built at the planet's TL, but you can buy up the TL<BR>
at the expense of having fewer units.  This is because of the cost of bring<BR>
in spare parts, tech reps, etc.<BR>
<BR>
You cannot lower the TL to get more units.  People start to look for the<BR>
R&D budget, and asking pointed questions about your new vacation home.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial Army units are equiped to a GTL 10-12 standard.  Since these are<BR>
drawn from a different pool of recruits, Imperial forces on a world don't<BR>
affect the local forces.<BR>
<BR>
This will all be made clear in Chapter 5's "How to Build An Army in Eight<BR>
Easy Steps."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 17:42:22 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: <BR>
<BR>
>By the way,<BR>
><BR>
>Corfams (not Coroframs) are oxfords made with artificial leather (takes a<BR>
>high shine; very popular with the military). Corfam is DuPont's trade name<BR>
>for its artifical leather.<BR>
<BR>
By artificial leather you mean shiny, fragile (they get marked up with the<BR>
slightest use), non-breathing, hot and uncomfortable plastic oxfords. I<BR>
refused for literally decades to wear the things, even though when I was a<BR>
junior enlisted I had to work thirty times as hard to keep my uniform<BR>
leather oxfords shined up to pass inspection. It use to tick me off big time<BR>
when someone in corfams, with little scratches all along the sides, got an<BR>
outstanding on inspections because his toes were plastic shiney. I finally<BR>
had to buy a ***white*** pair when I made chief. (There's another brilliant<BR>
uniform idea: White shoes and socks, not to mention white trousers and shirt<BR>
in an industrial climate like a ship.) Its obvious these decisions are made<BR>
by people who spend most of their time in offices, which they get to by<BR>
limousine.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 18:07:19 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
<BR>
>> From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
>> Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
><BR>
>> Since it's<BR>
>> owned by the sovereign, normal salvage law may not even apply.<BR>
>>><BR>
>Normal salvage laws do not apply to warships. The theory is that you have<BR>
>a duty as a citizen to help the sovereign recover his vessels. Vessels<BR>
>(but particularly warships) belonging to a different state are legally<BR>
>extraterritorial enclaves, even if derelict. Stealing one is tantamount to<BR>
>invading their territory, although among governments themselves the Law of<BR>
>the Jungle applies.<BR>
><BR>
>Salvage in the Imperium probably follows British law, where all derelicts<BR>
>are property of the Lord of the Manor where they are found. Salvage fees<BR>
>are established in international law to encourage the rescue of vessels in<BR>
>distress (required in the Imperium by the Navigation Act of 103), and to<BR>
>discourage piracy by offering an incentive to return the vessel intact.<BR>
><BR>
><<<BR>
>Surely there must be a point at which, the item being left as an hulk in<BR>
>space, is no longer redeamable to the paries which at first it belonged<BR>
too,<BR>
>this point being, where the cost for search and recovery, of such an item ,<BR>
>is no longer vialble. At this point, salvage by another party has to be<BR>
>valid.<BR>
<BR>
I would say that there are two possibilities. One: Salvage of a vessel<BR>
belonging to a government that no longer exists. Even then there exists the<BR>
possibility that a successor government might claim ownership. For example:<BR>
Does the Imperium claim ownership of all vessels that belong to conquered<BR>
worlds from the expansion period. What about vessels belonging to planetary<BR>
navies, when planetary governments change hands? Does the Imperium<BR>
necessarily recognize these government claims of active and derelict vessels<BR>
of the previous government?<BR>
<BR>
Two: Salvage of vessels belonging to governments unable to exercise<BR>
sovereignty in the area the ship is used in. I expect quite a number of<BR>
"salvaged" Imperium vessels are recognized as being recovered by persons in<BR>
the Vargr Expanses. I would not try to enter the Imperium in said ships<BR>
though.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:02:13 EDT<BR>
From: LB2NOLA@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:07:48 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
Nick Bradbeer wrote<BR>
<BR>
> > yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
> > "September sixth, 2000"<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
> <BR>
> Personally, I'd say:<BR>
> "It's September the sixth", but "On the sixth of September..." with some<BR>
> random variation between the two.<BR>
<BR>
And, being English derived, I usually say "the sixth of September, 2000"<BR>
or just "sixth of September".<BR>
<BR>
Which often sounds more like "sixaseptember".<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:11:44 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Terran Anagathics<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> So, the down side of immortality is no sex<BR>
<BR>
It's been done before in SF.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I think immortality preventing sex would be just too easy, no<BR>
overpopulation problem.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:33:22 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Joseph Dietrich wrote:<BR>
> > I thought the gratuitious name changes were a little annoying <BR>
> > (for example,> priests now have spell domains instead of spheres)<BR>
<BR>
Priests never used to have spheres or domains. <BR>
<BR>
I suspect they changed it to differentiate from "Mage"<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:48:23 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being on the net for<BR>
> two years made you an old timer. I've been on the Internet proper since<BR>
1988.<BR>
> Compuserve for at least four prior to that...<BR>
<BR>
Ditto.<BR>
<BR>
> Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
> started and AOL offered Internet access.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, I think that would be difficult.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, AOL offered acess to the Internet (i.e: newsgroups and email to<BR>
internet addresses) before there was a WWW (at least they did in New Zealand<BR>
anyway).<BR>
<BR>
Again, IIRC, they started doing that in about '88 too. I remember discussing<BR>
with a friend about how he was wasting money using AOL to access the<BR>
Internet, when I as accessing it for much less via a Fido-Net gateway.<BR>
<BR>
Remember, Tim Berners-Lee only wrote the original proposal for the WWW at<BR>
CERN in 1989<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Where the Hell is my cane?  No.  Not that one, the hook topped rattan one<BR>
> that makes people nervous when I carry it. :-)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> ---------<BR>
> urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
> "Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>
> burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> ---------<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:57:55 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin clearly an old-timer with selective memory <grin> wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> The first web content I developed was for a  browser called<BR>
> Mosaic. Those were the days. None of those new-fangled HTML<BR>
> editors, either. No way. It was either emacs, vi, or nothing.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, you're foprgetting that there were some very nice GUI text editors<BR>
available for unix when HTML came out.<BR>
<BR>
Heck, there were some very nice Windows and Macintosh text editors available<BR>
at the same time , and the Borland DOS IDE was widely available as well<BR>
(which had been derived from the very nice "Brief"  text editor).<BR>
<BR>
My first HTML was written using the Borland IDE in 1990. I then telnet'd to<BR>
my university and ftp'd the file up, so I could check that it was properly<BR>
displayable, as I didn't have a DOS  (or Windows) browser at the time.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:28:27 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
Glenn M. Goffin wrote: <BR>
> >From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
> <BR>
> >Wonder how many people write asking what a typewriter is! :^)  It's scary<BR>
> >how many people no longer know that, or what a Phonograph is.<BR>
> <BR>
> Everybody knows that a typewriter is direct keyboard input/printer output<BR>
> device.  It has neither monitor nor CPU, and therefore, obviously, does not<BR>
> run software.  It is a very simple design, but very difficult to use<BR>
> effectively.<BR>
<BR>
I really hope you're joking with that "Everyone knows" bit.  If not you're<BR>
likely to be very amazed one of these days!<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and I only own two typewriters, and only have one on my desk at work. <BR>
However, I don't have a Windows system on my Desk at work!!! :^)  I threw<BR>
that away!<BR>
<BR>
			Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3023<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3024</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/10/00 8:07:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 10 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3024<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: TNS: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
Nukes In Space<BR>
Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap ; was re :TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
this may be of some interest<BR>
RE: Warren Zevon meets Traveller, the horror continues<BR>
Re: Nukes In Space<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
NetWorld Game Solution<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 00:28:43 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
I think you will find the following time line interesting. I was actually on<BR>
Q-Link in those early days with my C64. But as you can see from AOL's own<BR>
history page, the earliest that they did anything with the Internet was<BR>
Nov/94. They didn't offer "real" Internet until after 10/95. The WWW has<BR>
been around (searching my memory here, it's prone to error) since 92' or<BR>
there about.<BR>
<BR>
09/00          AOL Service Surpasses 24 Million Members<BR>
- ----------------------------------Big Cut<BR>
Here-------------------------------------<BR>
10/95          Launch of GNN , AOL's direct Internet service<BR>
09/95          Acquires Ubique, Ltd., creator of Virtual Places<BR>
09/95          Registration filed for secondary offering of 3,500,000 shares<BR>
07/95          Passes 3,000,000 members<BR>
06/95          Acquires Global Network Navigator (GNN) as platform for<BR>
direct<BR>
                  Internet service; acquires WebCrawler search tool<BR>
05/95          Acquires WAIS, an Internet publisher, and Medior, a<BR>
                  developer of interactive media<BR>
05/95          Exceeds 2,500,000 members<BR>
04/95          First participants of the Greenhouse announced: The eGG,<BR>
Health<BR>
                  ResponseAbility Systems, InterZine Productions, The Motley<BR>
Fool,<BR>
                  NetNoir, and Health Zone<BR>
03/95          Joint venture with Bertelsmann, AG announced to create<BR>
European<BR>
                  online services<BR>
02/95          Passes 2,000,000 members<BR>
02/95          Acquires ANS, a commercial Internet access provider<BR>
12/94          Acquires BookLink Technologies, developer of Internet<BR>
applications<BR>
11/94          Acquires NaviSoft, developer of Internet publishing tools<BR>
11/94          The Greenhouse launched to develop original content online<BR>
08/94          Acquires Redgate Communications, a multimedia publishing<BR>
company<BR>
08/94          Reaches 1,000,000 members<BR>
12/93          Exceeds 500,000 members<BR>
01/93          Windows version of America Online launched<BR>
03/92          America Online goes public on the NASDAQ, under symbol AMER<BR>
10/91          Quantum Computer Services changes name to America Online,<BR>
Inc.<BR>
02/91          DOS version of America Online launched<BR>
06/90          Quantum's "Promenade" service launched for the IBM PS/1<BR>
10/89          "America Online" service is launched for Macintosh and Apple<BR>
II<BR>
08/88          Quantum's "PC-Link" a joint venture with Tandy Corporation<BR>
11/85          Quantum's first online service, "Q-Link," Commodore Business<BR>
Machines<BR>
05/85          Incorporated w/original name, Quantum Computer Services, in<BR>
Delaware<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 10:48 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > I nearly lost it today when a kid at work said that being on the net for<BR>
> > two years made you an old timer. I've been on the Internet proper since<BR>
> 1988.<BR>
> > Compuserve for at least four prior to that...<BR>
><BR>
> Ditto.<BR>
><BR>
> > Hell, I've was putting content on the WWW before Geocities<BR>
> > started and AOL offered Internet access.<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm, I think that would be difficult.<BR>
><BR>
> IIRC, AOL offered acess to the Internet (i.e: newsgroups and email to<BR>
> internet addresses) before there was a WWW (at least they did in New<BR>
Zealand<BR>
> anyway).<BR>
><BR>
> Again, IIRC, they started doing that in about '88 too. I remember<BR>
discussing<BR>
> with a friend about how he was wasting money using AOL to access the<BR>
> Internet, when I as accessing it for much less via a Fido-Net gateway.<BR>
><BR>
> Remember, Tim Berners-Lee only wrote the original proposal for the WWW at<BR>
> CERN in 1989<BR>
><BR>
> Frankie<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Where the Hell is my cane?  No.  Not that one, the hook topped rattan<BR>
one<BR>
> > that makes people nervous when I carry it. :-)<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> > ---------<BR>
> > urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
> > "Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising<BR>
for<BR>
> > burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> > ---------<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:48:47 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it means but it<BR>
always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
<BR>
I just had to say that.<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect<BR>
and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or<BR>
impractical.  It's all about giving yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:28:16 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: TNS: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Kelly St.Clair" <BR>
> "Alan Bradley" wrote:<BR>
> >TL 8 Mercs versus TL 5 locals?<BR>
> >Let me guess:  the locals are called the Movement for Real Equality -<BR>
> >MRE for short.<BR>
> <BR>
> Try NVA.  Still laughing?<BR>
<BR>
I thought about the NVA when I was writing it.  Striker is a conventional<BR>
tactical game, not a strategic/political game.  <BR>
<BR>
In any case, in stand-up fights low tech forces will tend to suffer heavier<BR>
casualties, even when they win.<BR>
<BR>
I have been looking at the force multipliers that could be applied to<BR>
minimise that (small quantities of imported stuff, plus training), but the<BR>
low-tech forces will still tend to get eaten in _conventional_ warfare.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:41:03 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Re: RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
At 09:02 PM 9/9/00 EDT, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
You were saying?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------[IMTU]-----------------------------<BR>
Held within the pressure dome, a-top Olympus Mons.<BR>
I taste my bitter triumph, as the mad assembly-man.<BR>
Nevermore shall I return, escape these caves of vice!<BR>
For I have used tax revenue, to court the vote of parasites.<BR>
<BR>
- -- Author Unknown, Cultural Archives, University of Freya<BR>
- ------------------------[IMTU]------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 08:25:17 +0300<BR>
From: "Ken J. Kazinski" <kjkazinski@ksaits.com><BR>
Subject: Nukes In Space<BR>
<BR>
I seem to recall that is not the case.  The energy released in space<BR>
still has a shockwave - I'm sure someone else on the list can check<BR>
thier physics books for sure.<BR>
<BR>
Kaz<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>Also remember that a portion (and a great portion IIRC) of the<BR>
_physical_<BR>
damage from a nuke on a planetary surface is from the shock wave<BR>
traveling<BR>
thru the atmosphere. In space, there is no atmosphere, so no shockwave.<BR>
However, the hard radiation would be more effective, due to less stuff<BR>
to<BR>
travel thru to get to the target (again, no atmosphere).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 22:43:18 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
...<BR>
>Well, if you gave in to heresy and played Striker II, you might be able<BR>
>to use the WW II designs from Command Decision.  ISTR that there were<BR>
>also CD designs for WW I vehicles listed somewhere....<BR>
<BR>
  GDW did "Over The Top" (Novak) - their early CD-version WW-I module.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 00:37:37 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Joseph Dietrich wrote:<BR>
> > > I thought the gratuitious name changes were a little annoying<BR>
> > > (for example,> priests now have spell domains instead of spheres)<BR>
><BR>
> Priests never used to have spheres or domains.<BR>
><BR>
> I suspect they changed it to differentiate from "Mage"<BR>
<BR>
Actually, to be more like them.  2nd ed. described nine<BR>
different schools of magic.  I understand the reasoning<BR>
for different schools, after all, a necromancer is a master<BR>
of death magic, not charm and the like.  So you could<BR>
specialize.  Of course, most of the schools sucked.<BR>
And it didn't make any sense to me to prevent access to<BR>
whole categories of spells.<BR>
<BR>
Specializing clerics is a natural progression, especially in<BR>
the context of a gods and their interests.  But it is much<BR>
more complicated to keep track of which gods grant access<BR>
to which spheres. A real pain if you just want a quick NPC<BR>
cleric on the fly.  That's why I ignored them.<BR>
<BR>
This specialization allows sub-classes to be brought back<BR>
into the fold.  3rd edition has done this with the Illusionist.<BR>
IMHO, this should also have been done with the druid,<BR>
which is basically a specialized nature priest.<BR>
<BR>
What is interesting to me in the 3rd ed. is that with the new<BR>
multiclass rule and the lack of any meaningful pre-requisites<BR>
to any class, they have destroyed the reasoning for having<BR>
all sub-classes. Rangers and Paladins are Fighters with some<BR>
Divine Magic, Barbarians are just better fighters.  Their feat<BR>
system promotes this further.  That they  nonetheless still<BR>
promote the separate sub-classes is confusing. Probably<BR>
unintended consequences.  Of course, things will get crazy<BR>
soon enough.  Monday is DMG release day.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 23:21:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 9/9/00 10:37 PM, stevedaniels@portcaddo.com issued<BR>
forth:<BR>
<BR>
> And it didn't make any sense to me to prevent access to<BR>
> whole categories of spells.<BR>
<BR>
I sort of liked that aspect, but I didn't understand some of the choices for<BR>
"oppositional" schools, and thought it should an optional disadvantage<BR>
instead of the only way to specialize.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:33:32 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Via electronic medium on 9/9/00 10:37 PM, stevedaniels@portcaddo.com issued<BR>
> forth:<BR>
><BR>
> > And it didn't make any sense to me to prevent access to<BR>
> > whole categories of spells.<BR>
><BR>
> I sort of liked that aspect, but I didn't understand some of the choices for<BR>
> "oppositional" schools, and thought it should an optional disadvantage<BR>
> instead of the only way to specialize.<BR>
<BR>
That is what they've done now.  If you choose to specialize in a school<BR>
of magic, you choose which and how many schools to be your opposition<BR>
schools (at least for the most part - I haven't read it in detail yet.).<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:18:42 -0700<BR>
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Joseph Dietrich wrote:<BR>
> > > I thought the gratuitious name changes were a little annoying <BR>
> > > (for example,> priests now have spell domains instead of spheres)<BR>
> <BR>
> Priests never used to have spheres or domains. <BR>
<BR>
Heck, last time I played *D&D a "Priest" was a 3rd level Cleric...<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 17:50:11 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap ; was re :TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 14:25:31<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
><BR>
> You cannot lower the TL to get more units.  People start to look for the<BR>
> R&D budget, and asking pointed questions about your new vacation home.<BR>
<BR>
I disagree with this pretty strongly on two grounds.<BR>
<BR>
Firstly, many states have a long history of hiring cheap mercenaries from<BR>
lower-tech states (I'm thinking of Venice and Albania right now. Also<BR>
Britain and the German states, or more recently Nepal).<BR>
<BR>
Sidepoint : as a dictator, would you prefer a proletariat with experience of<BR>
arms, or to hire 'the watchdogs of tyrrany' from other, poorer, states (and<BR>
thats states plural. Dont put all your eggs in one basket) ? Think of all<BR>
the poor, low-tech areas of the US that have provided the backbone of it's<BR>
armed forces. Would it matter if Appalachia (or Mexico ?) was another state,<BR>
if citizenship laid at the other side of five four-year terms ?<BR>
<BR>
Secondly, many governments are cheap. Most of Australia's defence equipment<BR>
is a lower TL than most of it's civilian economy. We do this because we need<BR>
the money for other needs, and because we have a military ideology of<BR>
investing in 'soft' assets (people and skills) as much as equipment.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:29 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <39BB1E21.1A4D8306@portcaddo.com><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
On clerics: I've always used deity-specific spell lists; picked to suit <BR>
the god in question. <BR>
<BR>
For mages: some would have trained in specific 'academies of magic' and <BR>
would have studied whatever was on offer there, others apprenticed to a <BR>
master and got access to what he knew.<BR>
<BR>
At the moment at the local club I am playing a 'path mage' which is a <BR>
rather delightful concept from a Dragon magazine about 5 years ago, and is <BR>
the precursor of the 3rdEdn. Sorceror. His spells are grouped in a logical <BR>
pattern and it works quite well.<BR>
<BR>
The 'feats' seem to me overkill, in fact that's somewhat how the whole <BR>
thing strikes me - too overpowered. The core mechanic's fine, it's what <BR>
has been piled on top...<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:45:44 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it <BR>
> means but it<BR>
> always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
> <BR>
> I just had to say that.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, Kiri, I was picturing '101 things NOT to do with a time machine'<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:27:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm also curious about whether anyone ever had any of their players actually<BR>
> recover the Kinunir and end up with the Imperial Warrant in their<BR>
> possession. That document would seem to be a nightmare for any Ref to have<BR>
> to cope with, as it allows to players to get away with just about anything.<BR>
<BR>
Just keep in mind what happened to the "warrant" Cardinal Richilieu<BR>
gave his agent in "The Three Musketeers". "Bearer" documents can be<BR>
used against you if someone manages to take them from you.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:59:09 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
Hmnn a bit of mental dredging...<BR>
<BR>
Remember, remember the Fifth of November<BR>
Gunpowder Treason and Plot.<BR>
...<BR>
Born on the Fourth of July.<BR>
....<BR>
Where were you on the 21st of June...<BR>
....<BR>
Thinking about it I generally say 'day' of 'month' more than I say 'Month'<BR>
'Day'.<BR>
<BR>
It's probably like Fall/Autumn, both words were used at the time of American<BR>
colonisation but American English went with Fall and dropped Autumn while<BR>
British English did the opposite. I believe that Autumn is still used as a root<BR>
word in American English - do you guys say Autumnal?<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Frank G. Pitt <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 3:07 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Nick Bradbeer wrote<BR>
><BR>
> > > yeah, but we don't _say_ "Two thousand, September sixth." We _say_<BR>
> > > "September sixth, 2000"<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Bet you UK folks do too, unless it's something incomprehensible like<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Personally, I'd say:<BR>
> > "It's September the sixth", but "On the sixth of September..." with some<BR>
> > random variation between the two.<BR>
><BR>
> And, being English derived, I usually say "the sixth of September, 2000"<BR>
> or just "sixth of September".<BR>
><BR>
> Which often sounds more like "sixaseptember".<BR>
><BR>
> Frankie<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:45:04 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: this may be of some interest<BR>
<BR>
http://www.justsaywow.com/3penguins.htm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:01:42 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Warren Zevon meets Traveller, the horror continues<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> Zevon seems to be a great mine for trav filks.<BR>
> <BR>
> What next?  "psionical boy" ?<BR>
<BR>
No, "Splort People"<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:04:05 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Nukes In Space<BR>
<BR>
"Ken J. Kazinski" wrote:<BR>
> I seem to recall that is not the case.  The energy released in space<BR>
> still has a shockwave - I'm sure someone else on the list can check<BR>
> thier physics books for sure.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, it has a shockwave. No, you don't need to bother with it.<BR>
<BR>
The shockwave effect from a nuke in vacuum is very weak, since it<BR>
consists of the mass of the nuke itself. In other words, if you are<BR>
close enough for the shockwave to bother you, you're toast anyway.<BR>
<BR>
The energy wave (as all forms of energy) will also act as a pushing<BR>
force. I am not sure how strong this force is though. A solar sail<BR>
powered ship (which normally moves by allowing energy to hit the sail)<BR>
would surely get swept away *really* quickly, unless the sails broke<BR>
from the shock. I don't think the energy would be able to move normal<BR>
ships any significant distance, however.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 06:09:10 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Megan Robertson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The 'feats' seem to me overkill, in fact that's somewhat how the whole<BR>
> thing strikes me - too overpowered. The core mechanic's fine, it's what<BR>
> has been piled on top...<BR>
<BR>
I actually like the feats, though I think the application is<BR>
unbalanced, very much in favor of human fighters, too.<BR>
And it will be a nightmare to deal with in high-level combat.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:27:24 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> I think you will find the following time line interesting.<BR>
<snip>.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I realised shortly after I posted that, that I confused the<BR>
mention of Compuserve in the preceding paragraph with the later mention of<BR>
AOL.<BR>
<BR>
AFAIK, we don't have AOL down here.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 07:02:00 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it means but it<BR>
> always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
<BR>
You mean I'm not the only one to notice that? I've been (figuratively)<BR>
biting my tongue for *days*.<BR>
<BR>
> I just had to say that.<BR>
<BR>
*Sure* you did... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 09:50:53 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: NetWorld Game Solution<BR>
<BR>
Some of you may recall that, a couple of weeks ago,  Kyle Schuant posted<BR>
a notice to the TML about his upcoming "Res Dura" NetWorld Game.  Well,<BR>
as a participant, I proposed the following solution to the problem of<BR>
Global Warming:<BR>
<BR>
**begin transmission**<BR>
<BR>
Solution name:  Tech Level 9 Fusion Plants<BR>
<BR>
Summary:  As any member of the Traveller Mailing List (TML) can point<BR>
out, according to LBB6, we are at TL9, which means that we have clean<BR>
fusion power to replace fossil fuel plants for electrical generation.<BR>
<BR>
Description:   Terra is currently at TL9 (see LBB6, page 26).  Fusion<BR>
power is a TL8 technology (LBB3, page 15).  Therefore, we can eliminate<BR>
the burning of fossil fuels by building fusion plants.  As new fusion<BR>
plants are built, CO2 emissions will decline, thus solving Global<BR>
Warming.  <BR>
   <BR>
 Note that fuel consumption per year is far greater per megawatt for the<BR>
steam <BR>
turbine technology currently used to generate electricity (FF&S2, Tables<BR>
216 <BR>
and 218).  External Combustion Turbines require .15 m^3 of fuel per MW<BR>
per <BR>
hour, while TL9 fusion plants require .15 m^3 of fuel per MW per<BR>
_year_.  This <BR>
vast improvement in fuel efficiency will offset the increased cost per<BR>
m^3 of <BR>
fuel for fusion plants.  Indeed, the fuel cost savings alone will cover<BR>
all <BR>
capital costs.  Primary costs will be in manufacturing the first few<BR>
plants, <BR>
which will then pay for further implementation with their increased<BR>
efficiency. <BR>
 Also, the far cheaper cost of electricity from fusion plants will allow<BR>
the <BR>
replacement of fossil fuels in other sectors of the economy, such as <BR>
transportation.  <BR>
   <BR>
 Note to judge:  As you may have noticed from my e-mail address, I am,<BR>
on the <BR>
TML, the design bureau head of AuricTech Shipyards.  Since I learned of <BR>
NetWorld from your post to the TML, I figured that I'd send you a<BR>
*strictly* <BR>
tongue-in-cheek solution, based on technology discussed in _Traveller_,<BR>
and the <BR>
Tech Level timelines from LBBs 3 and 6.  ;-)  <BR>
   <BR>
 Of course, if you decide to _approve_ this solution, then I will gladly <BR>
implement it....<BR>
<BR>
This solution needs funding for 10 years, and is expected to solve 90%<BR>
of the problem.<BR>
<BR>
Total Costs:<BR>
<BR>
Capital: 0<BR>
Labor: 10<BR>
Natural Resources: 0<BR>
Agricultural Goods: 0<BR>
Energy: 0<BR>
Manufactured Goods: 10<BR>
<BR>
**end transmission**<BR>
<BR>
Sadly, he didn't allow me to implement this solution, as I received the<BR>
following answer:<BR>
<BR>
Judge's comments: <BR>
 <BR>
 ROTFLMAO!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 07:04:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I think you will find the following time line interesting. I was actually on<BR>
> Q-Link in those early days with my C64. But as you can see from AOL's own<BR>
> history page, the earliest that they did anything with the Internet was<BR>
> Nov/94. They didn't offer "real" Internet until after 10/95. The WWW has<BR>
> been around (searching my memory here, it's prone to error) since 92' or<BR>
> there about.<BR>
<BR>
They offered newsgroups in the early to mid 90s. That's when the<BR>
"cluesless newbies" failed to go away by the end of September, because<BR>
AOL was letting their customers onto the net with *no* pointers,<BR>
guidelines, or attempts to make them adhere to long established rules<BR>
of behavior.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3024<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3025</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/10/00 2:22:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 10 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3025<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Nukes In Space<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: Salvage<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Settlement of Algine/Regina<BR>
Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: this may be of some interest<BR>
I've got to provide some comic relief...<BR>
the endless September<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap ; was re :TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
Re: this may be of some interest<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: the endless September<BR>
Re: NetWorld Game Solution<BR>
Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
Re: dating yourself<BR>
RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 07:13:50 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Nukes In Space<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I seem to recall that is not the case.  The energy released in space<BR>
> still has a shockwave - I'm sure someone else on the list can check<BR>
> thier physics books for sure.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. No shockwave. The material from the bomb spreads too thin, too<BR>
fast.<BR>
<BR>
But the radiation getting absorbed by a nearby object can cause some of<BR>
the surface AND SUBSURFACE material to explosively convert to plasma.<BR>
That creates a shockwave, but it's not a shockwave "from the bomb".<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 07:11:47 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it <BR>
>> means but it<BR>
>> always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I just had to say that.<BR>
><BR>
> Personally, Kiri, I was picturing '101 things NOT to do with a time machine'<BR>
> :)<BR>
<BR>
Read "The Man Who Folded Himself" by David Gerrold. It's pretty much<BR>
the definitive work on the subject.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:05:00 +0100<BR>
From: "Raymond Pullar" <Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Salvage<BR>
<BR>
>>I don't imagine that just anyone can get away with flourishing an Imperial<BR>
>>Warrant and demanding instant obediance. What if someone picked the<BR>
>>Imperial Envoy's pocket, or robbed her suite at the TAS Hostel? As with<BR>
>>many other shady deals, the key is to look and act like you know what<BR>
>>you're doing. If the authorities know that there is a Warrant on /Kinunir/<BR>
>>and then trespassers try to use that same Warrant as a Get Out of Jail<BR>
Free<BR>
>>card, however, I don't think it will fly. The only hope is that no one<BR>
>>knows it's there.<BR>
<BR>
And as Marc has revealed that Duke Norris, at least, is aware that the<BR>
Warrant is onboard the ship they would appear to have no hope. Although that<BR>
does raise the problem of how Norris could prove that the Warrant is<BR>
intended for his own use. As I've said in my reply to Marc, there doesn't<BR>
appear to be anyway of verifying the identity of the legitimate bearer of<BR>
the Warrant. So Duke Norris would be in a position to state, with authority,<BR>
that Warrant is his but unable to prove it. And from the description of the<BR>
Edict, the authority of the bearer of the Warrant would seem to excede that<BR>
of anyone apart from the Emperor himself as its bearer is acting on the<BR>
direct authority of the Emperor, so Norris couldn't just rely on the<BR>
authority of his position.<BR>
<BR>
Obviously, Norris could afford to just lock up the PCs and then wait for<BR>
confirmation from Strephon. It would be fun to see the look on the player's<BR>
faces if they arrived at Regina High Port in the Kinunir, causing panic<BR>
among the system defense forces,<BR>
were boarded and seized by them, only to brandish the Warrant with a smile<BR>
and claim that the ship required a complete, emergency overhaul in the<BR>
expectation that their orders would be obeyed, only to find themselves<BR>
dragged off for a personal audience with Norris who'd say in effect "Thanks<BR>
very much for retrieving *my* Warrant and the Empire's ship, the Empire is<BR>
of course very grateful, anything we can do to help you in the<BR>
future...these gentlemen from the Imperial Navy will now escort you out of<BR>
the Ducal Palace."<BR>
<BR>
Ray Pullar<BR>
ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk<BR>
"Man is something that should be overcome.  What have you done to overcome<BR>
him?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:06:32 +0100<BR>
From: "Raymond Pullar" <Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
>>I got the impression that's what Duke Norris did, more or less...  TAS<BR>
>>reports at the time of the 5FW describe him as disappearing from<BR>
>>public view for a time (supposedly "ill"), then reappearing<BR>
>>brandishing an Imperial Warrant which he used to relieve Santanocheev<BR>
>>of command and take over himself.  In his memoirs (in Survival Margin)<BR>
>>Norris mentions that this use of the warrant was not authorised by<BR>
>>Strephon.  Seems likely to me that while he was allegedly ill, Norris<BR>
>>and a group of trusty companions were actually poking about in the<BR>
>>Shionthy belt searching for the Kinunir...  What isn't clear is<BR>
>>whether Norris knew the Warrant would be there - his comment about<BR>
>>Strephon indicates that the Warrant wasn't addressed to him, but maybe<BR>
>>he'd heard that it was being despatched for someone else (like<BR>
>>Santanocheev?...)<BR>
<BR>
Well, you've answered my other question ("Whatever happened to the Warrant")<BR>
as it is clear from what Norris says in Survival Margin that he used it<BR>
during the<BR>
Final War to elevate himself to the position of Archduke of the Domain of<BR>
Deneb.<BR>
<BR>
Whether or not the use of the Warrant for the dismissal of Santanocheev was<BR>
authorised is somewhat unclear. Norris chastises himself for taking<BR>
Strephon's name in vain and then states that he did this when he removed<BR>
Santanocheev from office. But he later concludes by saying: "...what did you<BR>
give me the stationary for if you didn't want me to use it.", a reference to<BR>
the Imperial Stationary that the Warrant is issued on. That also suggests<BR>
(and Marc has confirmed it) that Strephon did issue the Warrant to Norris<BR>
for his own use. Norris seems to be wondering whether his use of the Warrant<BR>
in either case was in line with Strephon's intentions in issuing it to him<BR>
and if he has overstepped the bounds of the authority that Strephon was<BR>
granting<BR>
him. I would have thought that Norris had the legal right by the terms of<BR>
the Edict to use the Warrant<BR>
in both situations as he did  but that this is a case of a conflict between<BR>
the letter of<BR>
the law and the spirit of the law. It also suggests that the limiting factor<BR>
on abuse of Warrants is the office of the Emperor himself: if you start<BR>
using the Warrant to take actions that Strephon disapproves of you'll find<BR>
an Imperial Navy BatRon on your arse before you know it. It also suggests<BR>
that use of the Warrant is honoured in the breech: the bearer uses it to<BR>
take action using the direct and personal authority of the Emperor and then<BR>
has to sweat it out waiting to find out if Strephon concurs with the action<BR>
that he took in his name. If he does then all is sweet; if not...well, the<BR>
Gaesh awaits.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ray Pullar<BR>
ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk<BR>
"Man is something that should be overcome.  What have you done to overcome<BR>
him?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:06:44 +0100<BR>
From: "Raymond Pullar" <Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
>>>> I've always been curious about exactly why the Kinunir's Captain had an<BR>
>>>> Imperial Warrant in his possession and, as far as I know, its presence<BR>
>>>> onboard the ship has never been explained. Anyone have any ideas?<BR>
<BR>
>>Norris requerted help for the upcoming Fifth Frontier War and the Emperor<BR>
>>sent him one.<BR>
<BR>
So the Kinunir's final mission was to travel to Core, pick up the Warrant<BR>
and return it to Norris?<BR>
And it got in to trouble just as it arrived back in the Marches? Which would<BR>
explain the rumour in the adventure that the ship<BR>
had been sent Rimward on its final mission?<BR>
<BR>
I was aware that Norris recovered the Warrant and used it to dismiss<BR>
Santanocheev from command so that he<BR>
could end the Fifth Frontier War, but I'd thought up till now that the<BR>
discovery of the Imperial Warrant on the wreck of the Kinunir had just been<BR>
a<BR>
fortuitous accident for him. Norris now seems more<BR>
prescient than ever if he was in a position to forsee the coming war and<BR>
that he'd need a Warrant in order to take Emergency Executive action during<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
The strange thing about the Warrants was that there appeared to be no form<BR>
of identification for their legitimate bearer. With no way of determining<BR>
who the Warrant had been issued to (except by asking the Emperor himself),<BR>
anyone who came to possess a Warrant could claim to be its rightful owner.<BR>
This would put the Imperial authorities in a bind: by the terms of the Edict<BR>
they would have to assist the bearer of the Warrant even if they had good<BR>
grounds for believing the bearer to be an impostor. The only way to check<BR>
would be to send a message back to the Emperor and wait for a reply and for<BR>
the purposes that Warrants are issued this kind of delay would be<BR>
unacceptable. Warrants are dangerous items to have floating around.<BR>
<BR>
There also does not seem to be any expiry date on them. After the  war ended<BR>
did Norris retain the Warrant? Did Strephon revoke it?<BR>
<BR>
Ray Pullar<BR>
ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk<BR>
"Man is something that should be overcome.  What have you done to overcome<BR>
him?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:14:01 +0100<BR>
From: "Raymond Pullar" <Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Settlement of Algine/Regina<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone have any information on when the interdicted world of<BR>
Algine/Regina was orginally settled? The History of the Spinward Marches has<BR>
it marked as a settled area c. 300 prior to the Third Imperium absorbing the<BR>
region of space it occupies.<BR>
Was it settled at that time by advanced colonists of the Imperium or was it<BR>
already settled?<BR>
<BR>
Ray Pullar<BR>
ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk<BR>
"Man is something that should be overcome.  What have you done to overcome<BR>
him?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:16:30 +0100<BR>
From: "Raymond Pullar" <Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
Quick question on the subject of Droyne invisibility (it has been bugging me<BR>
since the thread on that topic ended and I don't have either the orginal AM:<BR>
Droyne or the new Gurps reprint book):<BR>
<BR>
Does Droyne invisibility work on other Droyne?<BR>
<BR>
Ray Pullar<BR>
ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk<BR>
"Man is something that should be overcome.  What have you done to overcome<BR>
him?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:20:18 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
A number of responses.<BR>
<BR>
>I just want to know why ghouls and ghasts have a Charisma of 16 (!).<BR>
Telling<BR>
someone that they have a "ghoulish Charisma" shouldn't be a compliment,<BR>
methinks.<<BR>
<BR>
Charisma for undead is used as a mechanic for certain special powers they<BR>
have. Maybe not very elegant, but that's why ghouls are so "kewl".<BR>
<BR>
>What is interesting to me in the 3rd ed. is that with the new<BR>
multiclass rule and the lack of any meaningful pre-requisites<BR>
to any class, they have destroyed the reasoning for having<BR>
all sub-classes. <<BR>
<BR>
There are sufficient special abilities still granted to the sub classes to<BR>
make them  viable and necessary. You could likely create some of them with<BR>
multiclassing (a Ranger is a Fighter/Rogue/Cleric) and very special Feats<BR>
(Befriend Animal), but separate classes makes them easier to implement.<BR>
<BR>
>The 'feats' seem to me overkill, in fact that's somewhat how the whole<BR>
thing strikes me - too overpowered. The core mechanic's fine, it's what<BR>
has been piled on top...<<BR>
<BR>
Feats allow a lot of quirky things to be removed from the core mechanic for<BR>
ease of integration or established as hard and fast rules. Meta-magic feats<BR>
eliminate a bunch of otherwise ignored spells. Item creation feats allow<BR>
hard and fast rules for them. Combat enhancement feats eliminate the vast<BR>
array of specializations and proficiencies related to them from previous<BR>
books as well; as modeling certain aspects of more flamboyant heroic fantasy<BR>
myth and books.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 08:27:37 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Raymond Pullar wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >>>> I've always been curious about exactly why the Kinunir's Captain had an<BR>
> >>>> Imperial Warrant in his possession and, as far as I know, its presence<BR>
> >>>> onboard the ship has never been explained. Anyone have any ideas?<BR>
> <BR>
> >>Norris requerted help for the upcoming Fifth Frontier War and the Emperor<BR>
> >>sent him one.<BR>
> <BR>
> So the Kinunir's final mission was to travel to Core, pick up the Warrant<BR>
> and return it to Norris?<BR>
> And it got in to trouble just as it arrived back in the Marches? Which would<BR>
> explain the rumour in the adventure that the ship<BR>
> had been sent Rimward on its final mission?<BR>
> <BR>
> I was aware that Norris recovered the Warrant and used it to dismiss<BR>
> Santanocheev from command so that he<BR>
> could end the Fifth Frontier War, but I'd thought up till now that the<BR>
> discovery of the Imperial Warrant on the wreck of the Kinunir had just been<BR>
> a<BR>
> fortuitous accident for him. Norris now seems more<BR>
> prescient than ever if he was in a position to forsee the coming war and<BR>
> that he'd need a Warrant in order to take Emergency Executive action during<BR>
> it.<BR>
<BR>
Well, not necessarily prescient. Remember two things: He was in Naval<BR>
Intelligence before the war, and his "long time" senechal (at least in<BR>
Survival Margin, and beyond) Dilgaadin was "a talented telepath". That is<BR>
a VERY dangerous thing to be, at least in pre-NE times. That means<BR>
Strephon was in a good position to know things, but in a very difficult<BR>
position to reveal _how_ he knew things. <BR>
<BR>
He communicated as much to Strephon, who responded by issuing the Warrant<BR>
to Norris, with the usual caveat: "Here's a lot of rope, don't hang<BR>
yourself with it!"<BR>
<BR>
> The strange thing about the Warrants was that there appeared to be no form<BR>
> of identification for their legitimate bearer. With no way of determining<BR>
> who the Warrant had been issued to (except by asking the Emperor himself),<BR>
> anyone who came to possess a Warrant could claim to be its rightful owner.<BR>
> This would put the Imperial authorities in a bind: by the terms of the Edict<BR>
> they would have to assist the bearer of the Warrant even if they had good<BR>
> grounds for believing the bearer to be an impostor. The only way to check<BR>
> would be to send a message back to the Emperor and wait for a reply and for<BR>
> the purposes that Warrants are issued this kind of delay would be<BR>
> unacceptable. Warrants are dangerous items to have floating around.<BR>
<BR>
> There also does not seem to be any expiry date on them. After the  war ended<BR>
> did Norris retain the Warrant? Did Strephon revoke it?<BR>
<BR>
My guess was that Strephon did this in order that Norris could pass the<BR>
Warrant on to Dilgaadin if he were 'outed', and needed protection. I<BR>
suspect that the usual Imperial Warrant has both a bearer's name and/or<BR>
expiration date. This was unusual circumstance, however. (read: 'Plot<BR>
Device')<BR>
<BR>
After the war Norris did indeed retain the warrant; he invoked it to<BR>
legally declare himself Archduke on the news of Strephons assasination, as<BR>
outlined in SM and RS.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:46:40 -0500<BR>
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan posted:<BR>
> <BR>
> The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it means but it<BR>
> always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
> <BR>
> I just had to say that.<BR>
<BR>
Same here. Reminds me of a female friend in college who once<BR>
grumbled<BR>
"Maybe I oughta date myself. At least I'm cheap and easy."<BR>
<BR>
And no, I did _not_ take the hint. Way too dangerous at the<BR>
time.<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 10:49:44 -0500<BR>
From: "D. Smart" <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: this may be of some interest<BR>
<BR>
michael.scanlon posted:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.justsaywow.com/3penguins.htm<BR>
<BR>
ROFLMAO!<BR>
<BR>
Doug B., you've got to see this!<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:35:08 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: I've got to provide some comic relief...<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) types:<BR>
>Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
> > The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it means but it<BR>
> > always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
>You mean I'm not the only one to notice that? I've been (figuratively)<BR>
>biting my tongue for *days*.<BR>
> > I just had to say that.<BR>
>*Sure* you did... :-)<BR>
<BR>
I've done my fair share in keeping some threads that should die alive in <BR>
the past.<BR>
<BR>
Right after typing that subject line, I *knew* some folks on the list would <BR>
have some major fun with it.<BR>
So far, at least no keyboards were killed by this thread.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
           You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication<BR>
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:37:50 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: the endless September<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) puts on the ether:<BR>
>They offered newsgroups in the early to mid 90s. That's when the<BR>
>"cluesless newbies" failed to go away by the end of September, because<BR>
>AOL was letting their customers onto the net with *no* pointers,<BR>
>guidelines, or attempts to make them adhere to long established rules<BR>
>of behavior.<BR>
<BR>
Oh ya...that's when I stopped following USENet as a part of my regular routine.<BR>
Polite managable newsgroups like rec.martial-arts became the home of the <BR>
clueless and 14 year old attention seekers.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot<BR>
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.<BR>
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 18:39:32 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 16:16 10.09.00 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>Quick question on the subject of Droyne invisibility (it has been bugging me<BR>
>since the thread on that topic ended and I don't have either the orginal AM:<BR>
>Droyne or the new Gurps reprint book):<BR>
><BR>
>Does Droyne invisibility work on other Droyne?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ok, ive just read the passage in the GT:ARIII book.<BR>
The invisibility is no true invisibility, but rather the power to make <BR>
others ignore them.<BR>
I think it would also work on Droyne, but they will have a better chance of <BR>
seeing though the charade due to their better training.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:32:02<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap ; was re :TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
At 05:50 PM 9/10/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
>> Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 14:25:31<BR>
>> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>> Subject: Re: TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
>><BR>
>> You cannot lower the TL to get more units.  People start to look for the<BR>
>> R&D budget, and asking pointed questions about your new vacation home.<BR>
><BR>
>I disagree with this pretty strongly on two grounds.<BR>
><BR>
>Firstly, many states have a long history of hiring cheap mercenaries from<BR>
>lower-tech states (I'm thinking of Venice and Albania right now. Also<BR>
>Britain and the German states, or more recently Nepal).<BR>
<BR>
This is home forces.  Mercenaries are entirely different thing.<BR>
<BR>
>Sidepoint : as a dictator, would you prefer a proletariat with experience of<BR>
>arms, or to hire 'the watchdogs of tyrrany' from other, poorer, states (and<BR>
>thats states plural. Dont put all your eggs in one basket) ? Think of all<BR>
>the poor, low-tech areas of the US that have provided the backbone of it's<BR>
>armed forces. Would it matter if Appalachia (or Mexico ?) was another state,<BR>
>if citizenship laid at the other side of five four-year terms ?<BR>
<BR>
This is addressed in the formula for figuring the sizes of both the local<BR>
army and the avalible militia.  Repressive states tend to have smaller<BR>
forces, overall.<BR>
<BR>
Note that under Hitler, just about everything was militarized.<BR>
<BR>
>Secondly, many governments are cheap. Most of Australia's defence equipment<BR>
>is a lower TL than most of it's civilian economy. We do this because we need<BR>
>the money for other needs, and because we have a military ideology of<BR>
>investing in 'soft' assets (people and skills) as much as equipment.<BR>
<BR>
Yet I wouldn't put Australia's military forces a full TL behind the US.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:37:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: this may be of some interest<BR>
<BR>
At 11:45 AM 9/10/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>http://www.justsaywow.com/3penguins.htm<BR>
<BR>
*splort*<BR>
<BR>
Thanks, that made a miserable morning a little better.  :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I am the penguin bold! We sailed the sea, to tringalee,<BR>
in search of spanish gold" - The Magic Pudding - Norman Lindsay<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:06:42 -0400<BR>
From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
Yes.<BR>
<BR>
We use both "Fall" and "Autumn" as well, although I would say that I do hear<BR>
"Fall" most frequently.<BR>
<BR>
- -Dan Lane<BR>
- -------------<BR>
> It's probably like Fall/Autumn, both words were used at the time of<BR>
American<BR>
> colonisation but American English went with Fall and dropped Autumn while<BR>
> British English did the opposite. I believe that Autumn is still used as a<BR>
root<BR>
> word in American English - do you guys say Autumnal?<BR>
><BR>
> Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:57:18 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:04:00 -0400 (EDT), "Kiri Aradia Morgan"<BR>
<tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it means but it<BR>
>always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
<BR>
>I just had to say that.<BR>
<BR>
And now you just have to send the keyboard to me care of New York City<BR>
Police Department, 46 Precinct.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:27:55 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: the endless September<BR>
<BR>
> Oh ya...that's when I stopped following USENet as a part of my regular routine.<BR>
> Polite managable newsgroups like rec.martial-arts became the home of the <BR>
> clueless and 14 year old attention seekers.<BR>
<BR>
There are still a few newsgroups with very little of that.  Mainly because<BR>
those people haven't a clue as to what the newsgroup is about so all you<BR>
have to deal with is the ()#$% @(*$& blanket SPAM attacks.<BR>
<BR>
			Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 06:54:08 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: NetWorld Game Solution<BR>
<BR>
> From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
> Subject: NetWorld Game Solution<BR>
><BR>
> Solution name:  Tech Level 9 Fusion Plants<BR>
> External Combustion Turbines require .15 m^3 of fuel per MW<BR>
> per<BR>
> hour, while TL9 fusion plants require .15 m^3 of fuel per MW per<BR>
> _year_.  This<BR>
> vast improvement in fuel efficiency will offset the increased cost per<BR>
> m^3 of<BR>
> fuel for fusion plants.  Indeed, the fuel cost savings alone will cover<BR>
> all<BR>
> capital costs.  Primary costs will be in manufacturing the first few<BR>
> plants,<BR>
> which will then pay for further implementation with their increased<BR>
> efficiency.<BR>
>  Also, the far cheaper cost of electricity from fusion plants will allow<BR>
> the<BR>
> replacement of fossil fuels in other sectors of the economy, such as<BR>
> transportation.<BR>
<BR>
Ahh, but the fuel for TL9 fusion plants is deuterium, and the TL for<BR>
refining deuterium is not listed, and you are planning on using a lot of<BR>
deuterium.<BR>
<BR>
The Cr 350 per m3 price is, I think, the cost of purchasing it from advanced<BR>
refining facilities. What is the current market price of heavy hydrogen,<BR>
anyway ?<BR>
<BR>
After all, you can burn petroleum at TL0, but effective refining techniques<BR>
are not perfected until TL5 or so.<BR>
<BR>
I can see Terra replacing it's Global Warming issue with it's Paying The<BR>
Vilani for all that Dee issue (one of the bureaux had a traditional role in<BR>
power prodution, so I guess they would be the ones we'd buy all that Dee<BR>
off).<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
PS Ditzie is volunteering to help the Kenyan Parks Service to save the<BR>
elfants against poachers<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:05:11 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch wrote:<BR>
> It's probably like Fall/Autumn, both words were used at the time of<BR>
American<BR>
> colonisation but American English went with Fall and dropped Autumn while<BR>
> British English did the opposite. I believe that Autumn is still used as a<BR>
root<BR>
> word in American English - do you guys say Autumnal?<BR>
<BR>
Autumnal equinox, yah. Any reasonably-educated American recognizes both<BR>
words, and I certainly wasn't taught that "autumn" was the BritishEnglish<BR>
word<BR>
and that "fall" was the AmericanEnglish word. I learned them as<BR>
undifferentiated<BR>
synonyms and hadn't ever thought about the fact that "fall" is used almost<BR>
exclusively here.<BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:06:53 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> In mail you [Kiri] write:<BR>
><BR>
> > The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it means but<BR>
it<BR>
> > always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
><BR>
> You mean I'm not the only one to notice that? I've been (figuratively)<BR>
> biting my tongue for *days*.<BR>
><BR>
> > I just had to say that.<BR>
><BR>
> *Sure* you did... :-)<BR>
<BR>
It always puts me in mind of the gag from a Dilbert strip (and other<BR>
places):<BR>
<BR>
"I'm really dating myself, here."<BR>
<BR>
"Well, it's not as if anyone else would date you."<BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:15:44 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller News Service: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:27:40 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
<BR>
>Actually, the idea is TL 5 vs. TL 5. I have a number of British Mark IV<BR>
>tanks, Mark B light tanks, and Mark IX APCs. The vehicles will probably not<BR>
>be designed with Striker, but rather reverse-engineered into Striker terms<BR>
>from the characteristics of the real WWI vehicles. I'm not sure that the<BR>
>Striker vehicle design system gives you anything close to reality at the<BR>
>extremely low TLs. If anyone has time to kill, however,...<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like a challenge...  Below is my best shot at designing a<BR>
British 1917-vintage Mark IV tank using Striker.  The<BR>
dimensions/volume, crew, powerplant rating, armour and weaponry are<BR>
all pretty much historical.  The tank comes out slightly lighter than<BR>
the real thing (21 tons vs 26 tons), and its speed is about twice the<BR>
historical value (although it's the lowest possible value on the<BR>
table...).  For the guns, these were 57mm calibre with a 3kg shell;  I<BR>
chose to take the bore size rather than the shell weight as the basis<BR>
for the Striker design.<BR>
<BR>
******Mark IV Tank******<BR>
<BR>
TL:  5<BR>
Cost:  Cr72,130<BR>
Mass: 20.87 tons<BR>
Crew: 8<BR>
<BR>
Will float (assuming it was watertight...)<BR>
Ground Pressure: 2<BR>
P/W Ratio: 4<BR>
Road speed: 15 kph<BR>
Cross-Country Speed: 4.5 kph<BR>
Range: 8 hours/36 km crosscountry<BR>
<BR>
Armour: Front/rear 7, sides 4, top/bottom 1<BR>
Target Size DM: +3 low, no high hits<BR>
<BR>
Weapons:<BR>
No weapons are stabilised (-4/none; none)<BR>
<BR>
Two 5.5cm TL5 CPR guns<BR>
Fire arc:  Dead ahead to 90 to the side <BR>
(one mounted on each side of the vehicle)<BR>
Range:  20-60-150   ROF: 7  Accuracy -2/-4<BR>
HE: 8/1/1<BR>
KEAP: 17-15-13<BR>
with:  108 shells (54 per gun)<BR>
<BR>
Four standard TL5 medium machine guns<BR>
Fire arcs: Front, Sides, Rear chassis mounts.<BR>
with: 40 belts of 100 ammo (10 belts/1000 shots per gun)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
******Construction Details********<BR>
<BR>
Chassis:  2.4 m high x 8 m long x 2.5 m wide<BR>
plus two Sponsons: 1 m high x 2 m long x 0.8 m wide<BR>
Volume: 48 m3 plus 1.6 m3 per sponson<BR>
<BR>
Suspension:  8 m3  8 tons Cr20,000<BR>
<BR>
Front & Rear:  Moderate Slope<BR>
Usable volume: 32 m3 in Chassis, 1.28 m3 per sponson = 34.56 m3<BR>
<BR>
Two 5.5 cm TL5 CPR guns, each:<BR>
0.275 tons, 0.275 m3 (in sponson), Cr18,500<BR>
Medium velocity, direct fire control only, unstabilised<BR>
Shells:  5 kg, 0.005 m3, Cr15 for HE or KEAP<BR>
<BR>
Four Machine Guns, each:<BR>
0.0095 tons, 0.0000095 m3, Cr1500<BR>
<BR>
Four Gunners, standing: 0.8 tons, 12 m3, Cr400<BR>
(Front MG, Rear MG, Left gun and MG, Right gun and MG)<BR>
Two Loaders, standing: 0.4 tons, 6 m3, Cr200<BR>
Commander, standing, 0.2 tons, 3 m3, Cr100<BR>
Driver, sitting, 0.2 tons, 2 m3, Cr100<BR>
<BR>
Powerplant:  0.093 MW internal combustion engine (125 hp)<BR>
0.62 m3  0.62 tons  Cr 620<BR>
(imposing the standard Striker minimum of 1 m3 powerplant size would<BR>
make this tank grossly overpowered compared to its historical<BR>
performance!)<BR>
<BR>
Transmission: 0.465 m3, 0.465 tons, Cr465<BR>
<BR>
Fuel:  8 hours, 670 litres (0.67 tons, 0.67 m3, Cr167.5)<BR>
<BR>
Armour: Soft Steel.  0.5cm on top and bottom, 1.5cm on other faces.<BR>
1.036 m3, 8.288 tons, Cr1657.6<BR>
<BR>
Ammunition: <BR>
108 5.5cm shells:  0.54 m3, 0.54 tons, Cr1620<BR>
4000 MG bullets:  0.1 m3,  0.1 tons, Cr4800<BR>
<BR>
Waste space: 7.2 m3<BR>
(the commander would often have to walk down from his position at the<BR>
front to one of the gunners, to point out a suitable target - so there<BR>
needs to be plenty of space inside the tank!)<BR>
<BR>
Finally, a historical anecdote about these tanks:  they got so hot<BR>
inside that on at least one recorded occasion, the crew pointed their<BR>
tank towards the enemy trench, put it in gear, then got out and walked<BR>
behind it as it trundled forward (climbing back in at the last<BR>
minute)...<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3025<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 11 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3026<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: TNS: Trouble on Heya<BR>
TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: The Kinunir<BR>
Re: The Kinunir<BR>
Re: Algine<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: More about Kinunir and Imperial Warrants<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: GT : Starships and Imperial Navy sourcebooks<BR>
Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
Re: NetWorld Game Solution<BR>
Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:16:56 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: TNS: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
> Subject: Re: TNS: Trouble on Heya<BR>
<BR>
> I have been looking at the force multipliers that could be applied to<BR>
> minimise that (small quantities of imported stuff, plus training), but the<BR>
> low-tech forces will still tend to get eaten in _conventional_ warfare.<BR>
<BR>
The obvious force multiplier is Imperial Intervention.<BR>
<BR>
I'll admit to being strongly to the pro-intervention end of the spectrum,<BR>
but use of mercenaries with a 50% TL advantage certainly looks like<BR>
excessive extra-planetary influence to me.<BR>
<BR>
To quote some bleeding heart noble "Other, perhaps more conservative,<BR>
members of the imperial polity  may regard 'excessive' as being only<BR>
quantitative intervention, but for me issues of quality must be considered<BR>
as well".<BR>
<BR>
I dont neccessarily see intervention as meaning the Marines are dropping in.<BR>
I'd say that leasing a couple of TL10 Air Superiority vehicles to the TL5<BR>
side should do the trick.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:42:22 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
<BR>
The title says it all. Any help gratefully welcome.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:36:13 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 21:48:47 -0700<BR>
>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
><BR>
>The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it means but it<BR>
>always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
<BR>
One of the classic Dilbert cartoons:<BR>
<BR>
"I'm really dating myself now."<BR>
"Well, it's not as if anyone else would."<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:43:13 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: defense on the cheap ; was re :TNS : Trouble on Heya<BR>
> >Secondly, many governments are cheap. Most of Australia's defence<BR>
equipment<BR>
> >is a lower TL than most of it's civilian economy. We do this because we<BR>
need<BR>
> >the money for other needs, and because we have a military ideology of<BR>
> >investing in 'soft' assets (people and skills) as much as equipment.<BR>
><BR>
> Yet I wouldn't put Australia's military forces a full TL behind the US.<BR>
<BR>
I would. MBT is the TL7 Leopard II. Main aircraft is the TL7 F18. Main<BR>
strike aircraft is the TL6 F111 rebuilt to TL7. Navy ? I'm less sure. You<BR>
might class the Collins as a TL8 Diesel Sub.<BR>
<BR>
We could buy all the neat TL8 kit (stealth fighters, M1 Abrams etc), but we<BR>
choose not to, because we just can't afford it buy it in enough quantity.<BR>
<BR>
I think a lot of militaries would be in the same position. To take an<BR>
example, lets look at Ludowick's Rapira-A. As a MBT, in my opinion it sucks.<BR>
On the other hand, with minimal modification it is one hell of a Mobile<BR>
Anti-Starship Laser Battery, and I would certainly buy two on a TL12 world<BR>
with a low population, over one TL12 MBT in the same role.<BR>
<BR>
A compromise would be to allow militaries to buy down 2 TLs. Much lower than<BR>
that and you start to have the same problem of running a higher tech<BR>
military than 'standard' - not enough people with the relevant skills sets<BR>
to recruit from.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:58:46 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I think a lot of militaries would be in the same position. To take an<BR>
> example, lets look at Ludowick's Rapira-A. As a MBT, in my<BR>
> opinion it sucks.<BR>
<BR>
I am curious: why does it suck? Is it an issue of cost-effectiveness or some<BR>
element of the design? Sure, it doesn't float, but I'm not too worried about<BR>
that.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:52:42 +0200<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Ray Pullar writes:<BR>
<BR>
>The discussion of salvage rights is quite interesting but, getting back to<BR>
>the question that was originally posed, concerning the consequences of<BR>
>salvaging the Kinunir, no one seems to have taken account of the fact that<BR>
>there is an Imperial Warrant, signed by Strephon himself, in an envelope, in<BR>
>the Captain's stateroom, onboard that vessel. Once the PCs find that<BR>
>Warrant, I think that all issues of ownership of the vessel will become<BR>
>moot. It may well remain the property of the Sovereign, Emperor Strephon,<BR>
>but as the PCs will have a document authorising them to act as his agents<BR>
>they should be able to retain control of the vessel simply by muttering<BR>
>darkly to any inquisitive Imperial bureacrats about the safety of the<BR>
>Imperium, their need to know, acting in the service of the Emperor etc.<BR>
<BR>
You're new to the list I take it? ;-) Old hands will know what I'm about to<BR>
write...<BR>
<BR>
_The Kinunir_ was the first adventure written for Traveller, long before the<BR>
Traveller Universe firmed up. It contains a number of, let us say, questionable<BR>
features, and I'm convinced that the Imperial Warrant in the captain's safe is<BR>
one of them. I simply can't muster enough willing suspension of disbelief to<BR>
accept that an instrument as powerful as an Imperial Warrant wouldn't be hedged<BR>
about with all sorts of safeguards to ensure that only the person to whom it was<BR>
issued (and, given the communication delays across the Imperium, MAYBE his<BR>
legitimate heir, but I'm even doubtful about that) can actually use it.<BR>
<BR>
(BTW. in a previous discussion about this subject someone pointed out that if<BR>
the PCs really are able to use the warrant, then it is the NASTIEST hose job<BR>
I've ever heard about perpetrated on a group of poor innocent PCs. Because all<BR>
the various Imperial agencies from the INI to the Office of Calendar Compliance<BR>
_will_ eventually hunt them down and put them away for their natural life if<BR>
they actually do use it.)<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and just to dot the t's and cross the i's: The free pardon that Mylady got<BR>
from the Cardinal is not the equivalent of an Imperial Warrant.<BR>
<BR>
>I've always been curious about exactly why the Kinunir's Captain had an<BR>
>Imperial Warrant in his possession and, as far as I know, its presence<BR>
>onboard the ship has never been explained. Anyone have any ideas?<BR>
<BR>
Lots, but none that will hold water. But I'm working on it...<BR>
 <BR>
>I'm also curious about whether anyone ever had any of their players actually<BR>
>recover the Kinunir and end up with the Imperial Warrant in their<BR>
>possession. That document would seem to be a nightmare for any Ref to have<BR>
>to cope with, as it allows to players to get away with just about anything.<BR>
 <BR>
For a few months or at most years. Then the bill comes due. End of campaign, no<BR>
saving throw. IMNSHO.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the<BR>
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class<BR>
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength<BR>
        to put down any military operations that threathen<BR>
        the peace of the Imperium."<BR>
<BR>
                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:21:09 +0200<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Reply-To: <BR>
Marc Miller writes:<BR>
>In a message dated 9/9/00 9:55:19 AM Central Daylight Time, <BR>
>Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk writes:<BR>
><BR>
>I've always been curious about exactly why the Kinunir's Captain had an<BR>
>Imperial Warrant in his possession and, as far as I know, its presence<BR>
>onboard the ship has never been explained. Anyone have any ideas?<BR>
> <BR>
>Norris requerted help for the upcoming Fifth Frontier War and the Emperor <BR>
>sent him one.<BR>
 <BR>
<Agonized groan>.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, Mark... I know this is your game, but _please_ reconsider. I know that is<BR>
what it says in _Regency Sourcebook_, but it just doesn't make any sort of<BR>
sense. _The Kinunir_ disappeared on routine patrol (or what could be passed off<BR>
as routime patrol -- either it wasn't really routine or someone with a warrant<BR>
commandeered it _en route_) in 1088, about 10 years before Norris became duke <BR>
of Regina and 19 years before the FFW. And _Spinward Marches Campaign_ tells us<BR>
that Norris fetched his warrant from a cruiser that had crashed on Algine, not<BR>
from Shionthy...<BR>
<BR>
Hans<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:53:25 +0200<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: Algine<BR>
<BR>
Ray Pullar writes:<BR>
<BR>
>Does anyone have any information on when the interdicted world of<BR>
>Algine/Regina was orginally settled? The History of the Spinward Marches has<BR>
>it marked as a settled area c. 300 prior to the Third Imperium absorbing the<BR>
>region of space it occupies.<BR>
>Was it settled at that time by advanced colonists of the Imperium or was it<BR>
>already settled?<BR>
 <BR>
Algine was settled some unspecified time before -1511 [Darrian]. The most likely<BR>
time is during the Vilani 3rd Colonization Wave when Vilani were fleeing the<BR>
Terran Confederation and the Rule of Man, ie. some time between -2400 and -1700<BR>
(this is when Vanejen was settled too,  but nothing has been established in that<BR>
regard. It was settled again in -1000 by a Solomani generation ship [Spinward<BR>
Marches Campaign]. Jon Zeigler used Algine as one of the examples in _GT:First<BR>
In_, but unfortunately he didn't know about the reference to settlers prior to<BR>
the Solomani, so they are not mentioned (They are there, of course, they're just<BR>
not mentioned ;-). Otherwise the writeup is exellent (except that I'm sorry he<BR>
made the day 80-odd hours long; that sort of interferes with my pet theory that<BR>
Algine is one of the most pleasant and Terran-like planets in the Spinward<BR>
Marches (Which would be why the original settlers chose it out of 400 planets.<BR>
Ah well...).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
      Hans Rancke<BR>
University of Copenhagen<BR>
     rancke@diku.dk<BR>
- ------------<BR>
        "The referee should determine the nature of subsequent<BR>
         events based on the individual situation."<BR>
                                _76 Patrons_, p. 8<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 17:21:57 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
At 17:14 -0400 7/9/00, "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca> wrote:<BR>
> > Well, look at Episode IV - all the Imperial Navy had British accents,<BR>
> > and the actor playing Vader was British (?) IIRC.<BR>
> ><BR>
>Umm... ENGLISH. There IS a difference. I don't recall any Welsh, Scottish or<BR>
>Northern Irish.<BR>
<BR>
He comes from Great Britain if he is English thus he is British.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:46:33 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
I was always under the impression that the warrant specifically addressed<BR>
Norris' elevation to Archduke which gave him immediate control of all<BR>
military assets.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 11:27 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
<BR>
> On Sun, 10 Sep 2000, Raymond Pullar wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > The strange thing about the Warrants was that there appeared to be no<BR>
form<BR>
> > of identification for their legitimate bearer. With no way of<BR>
determining<BR>
> > who the Warrant had been issued to (except by asking the Emperor<BR>
himself),<BR>
> > anyone who came to possess a Warrant could claim to be its rightful<BR>
owner.<BR>
> > This would put the Imperial authorities in a bind: by the terms of the<BR>
Edict<BR>
> > they would have to assist the bearer of the Warrant even if they had<BR>
good<BR>
> > grounds for believing the bearer to be an impostor. The only way to<BR>
check<BR>
> > would be to send a message back to the Emperor and wait for a reply and<BR>
for<BR>
> > the purposes that Warrants are issued this kind of delay would be<BR>
> > unacceptable. Warrants are dangerous items to have floating around.<BR>
><BR>
> > There also does not seem to be any expiry date on them. After the  war<BR>
ended<BR>
> > did Norris retain the Warrant? Did Strephon revoke it?<BR>
><BR>
> My guess was that Strephon did this in order that Norris could pass the<BR>
> Warrant on to Dilgaadin if he were 'outed', and needed protection. I<BR>
> suspect that the usual Imperial Warrant has both a bearer's name and/or<BR>
> expiration date. This was unusual circumstance, however. (read: 'Plot<BR>
> Device')<BR>
><BR>
> After the war Norris did indeed retain the warrant; he invoked it to<BR>
> legally declare himself Archduke on the news of Strephons assasination, as<BR>
> outlined in SM and RS.<BR>
><BR>
> Bruce Johnson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:49:51 +0200<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: More about Kinunir and Imperial Warrants<BR>
<BR>
I really should read all my digests before posting, but I always forget. Sorry<BR>
if I repeat myself a bit below.<BR>
<BR>
Ray Pullar writes:<BR>
<BR>
>Although that does raise the problem of how Norris could prove that the<BR>
>Warrant is intended for his own use. As I've said in my reply to Marc,<BR>
>there doesn't appear to be anyway of verifying the identity of the<BR>
>legitimate bearer of the Warrant.<BR>
<BR>
That's one reason why I can't make myself believe in the "The Bearer of this<BR>
can do no wrong" type warrant. Something as powerful as an Imperial Warrant<BR>
should be hedged about with all sorts of safeguards.<BR>
<BR>
>>>I got the impression that's what Duke Norris did, more or less...  TAS<BR>
>>>reports at the time of the 5FW describe him as disappearing from<BR>
>>>public view for a time (supposedly "ill"), then reappearing<BR>
>>>brandishing an Imperial Warrant which he used to relieve Santanocheev<BR>
>>>of command and take over himself.  <BR>
<BR>
In _Spinward Marches Campaign_ it is stated quite clearly that Norris' warrant<BR>
was on board a light cruiser that crashed on Algine. He faked his illness and<BR>
led an expedition down on the surface of Algine in despite of the interdict in<BR>
order to fetch it. It took him a LONG time, incidentally. He dropped out of<BR>
sight on 212-1107 and reappeared on Regina with his warrant on 132-1109.<BR>
<BR>
Another point: _The Kinunir_ was discovered in 1105. Any warrant carried on it<BR>
would surely have been retrieved at that time or shortly afterwards.<BR>
<BR>
>>>In his memoirs (in Survival Margin)<BR>
>>>Norris mentions that this use of the warrant was not authorised by<BR>
>>>Strephon.<BR>
<BR>
Yet another contradictory statement...<BR>
<BR>
>Well, you've answered my other question ("Whatever happened to the Warrant")<BR>
>as it is clear from what Norris says in Survival Margin that he used it<BR>
>during the Final War to elevate himself to the position of Archduke of the<BR>
>Domain of Deneb.<BR>
<BR>
Not clear at all. According to _Imperial Encyclopedia_ he used some of the<BR>
blank Imperial _Stationary_ that he had in his possession to write himself a<BR>
patent of nobility (if that's the right word for an instrument that raises<BR>
someone from one noble rank to a higher).<BR>
 <BR>
>>>Norris requerted help for the upcoming Fifth Frontier War and the Emperor<BR>
>>>sent him one.<BR>
> <BR>
>So the Kinunir's final mission was to travel to Core, pick up the Warrant<BR>
>and return it to Norris?<BR>
<BR>
Think about that for a moment. _The Kinunir_ was a jump-4 vessel. If time was of<BR>
the essense, why not use a jump-6 vessel? As civil head of the Duchy of Regina<BR>
Navy Norris must surely have had access to one.<BR>
 <BR>
>The strange thing about the Warrants was that there appeared to be no form<BR>
>of identification for their legitimate bearer. With no way of determining<BR>
>who the Warrant had been issued to (except by asking the Emperor himself),<BR>
>anyone who came to possess a Warrant could claim to be its rightful owner.<BR>
<BR>
That's why... oh, I've said so twice already, haven't I? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
And Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
>Well, not necessarily prescient. Remember two things: He was in Naval<BR>
>Intelligence before the war, and his "long time" senechal (at least in<BR>
>Survival Margin, and beyond) Dilgaadin was "a talented telepath". <BR>
<BR>
Of course, at the time the _Kinunir_ dissappeared in 1088, Norris was propably<BR>
in breeches (well, may not, but certainly still wet behind the ears).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hans<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:07:01 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
Raymond Pullar wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The strange thing about the Warrants was that there appeared to be no form<BR>
> of identification for their legitimate bearer. With no way of determining<BR>
> who the Warrant had been issued to (except by asking the Emperor himself),<BR>
> anyone who came to possess a Warrant could claim to be its rightful owner.<BR>
<BR>
You're assuming that the one or two examples of Warrants are all that<BR>
can exist.  There is no restriction on what an emperor can do in a Warrant.<BR>
IMO, the normal Warrant would name the person for which it is intended.<BR>
A 'bearer' warrant stirs up more trouble than it solves, because actual<BR>
physical possession is everything.<BR>
<BR>
> There also does not seem to be any expiry date on them.<BR>
<BR>
Nothing restricts the emperor from placing such limitations on them.<BR>
<BR>
I think MM was making a reference to the Cardinal Richelieu sort<BR>
of warrant, which in the movie anyway, was the famous hastily-scribbled<BR>
one-liner.  Though some emperors might treat them so casually,<BR>
the sane ones would realize the danger and act accordingly.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:22:07 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
I'd expect Imperial Warrants to read something like SOG cards from Vietnam<BR>
and have similar instructions. Breaking down to,<BR>
Stay out of the way.<BR>
Do what you are told if you are in the way.<BR>
Don't touch this if the bearer is dead but get your CO instead.<BR>
Expect to go to Leavenworth if you don't do these things and get really<BR>
lucky. (i.e. you aren't shot down on the spot.)<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:24:00 +1100 (EST)<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: GT : Starships and Imperial Navy sourcebooks<BR>
<BR>
> From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
> <BR>
> > From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au><BR>
> > <BR>
> > I've been absent from the Traveller scene for about a year due to<BR>
> > family commitments, and was expecting both the above books to be<BR>
> out<BR>
> > and about by now.  I can't seem to find reference to them on the<BR>
> > GURPS website, though.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Have they been shelved, or is something else going on?<BR>
> <BR>
> GT: Imperial Navy went all the way to final draft before SJ Games<BR>
> decided<BR>
> that the product was unacceptable (for reasons that remain<BR>
> unspecified). Rather than be bought out and their draft extensively<BR>
> rewritten by someone else, the authors elected to return their<BR>
> advances<BR>
> and keep the draft. SJ Games is looking for an author to re-do the<BR>
> whole<BR>
> project from scratch, preferably one who was not closely involved<BR>
> in the<BR>
> original draft and playtest.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, sounds very interesting. A bit disappointing, though, as this<BR>
(as well as Starships) is a supplement I'm personally looking forward<BR>
to...Ah well.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> GT: Starships was proceeding slowly but steadily until I determined<BR>
> that<BR>
> my real job was going to soak up all my extra time. At that point,<BR>
> I asked<BR>
> SJ Games to find another author to complete the project, which they<BR>
> did. Robert Prior is now at the helm, and I have turned all my work<BR>
> to<BR>
> date over to him. Some preliminary discussion is taking place on<BR>
> the<BR>
> Pyramid and JTAS boards (which, being SJ Games property, do not<BR>
> constitute<BR>
> premature release of proprietary information).<BR>
> <BR>
> Robert has indicated that he will make up a list of what<BR>
> submissions he is<BR>
> seeking once he gets a chance to digest the material I sent him. I<BR>
> expect<BR>
> that he will make a blanket announcement here when he is ready.<BR>
<BR>
I look forward to this with bated breath.<BR>
<BR>
BTW - if anybody wants to use any of the designs I posted way back<BR>
when (including for source books like Starships) feel free to do so<BR>
(with recognition of course! :).  I might even be tempted to do some<BR>
more designs if they are needed at all...<BR>
<BR>
Craig.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au>  <craig_barnett@iname.com><BR>
Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________________________<BR>
http://geocities.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Australia & NZ GeoCities<BR>
- - Build your own Web Site - for free!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:35:03 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
> > It's probably like Fall/Autumn, both words were used at the time of<BR>
> American<BR>
> > colonisation but American English went with Fall and dropped Autumn while<BR>
> > British English did the opposite. I believe that Autumn is still used as a<BR>
> root<BR>
> > word in American English - do you guys say Autumnal?<BR>
><BR>
> Autumnal equinox, yah. Any reasonably-educated American recognizes both<BR>
> words, and I certainly wasn't taught that "autumn" was the BritishEnglish<BR>
> word<BR>
> and that "fall" was the AmericanEnglish word. I learned them as<BR>
> undifferentiated<BR>
> synonyms and hadn't ever thought about the fact that "fall" is used almost<BR>
> exclusively here.<BR>
><BR>
For some reason 'Fall' is the one Americanism(?) that really grates when I hear<BR>
or read it. I don't know why, nothing else in American English has that effect,<BR>
not even people talking about taking off their pants and fanny slapping.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:32:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: NetWorld Game Solution<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Ahh, but the fuel for TL9 fusion plants is deuterium, and the TL for<BR>
> refining deuterium is not listed, and you are planning on using a lot of<BR>
> deuterium.<BR>
<BR>
Try TL 5. Maybe TL 4.<BR>
<BR>
Ever hear of "heavy water"? That's deuterium oxide. D2O.<BR>
<BR>
> The Cr 350 per m3 price is, I think, the cost of purchasing it from advanced<BR>
> refining facilities. What is the current market price of heavy hydrogen,<BR>
> anyway ?<BR>
<BR>
One of the simpler methods of producing it is by electrolyzing water.<BR>
The D comes off last, so if you stop before all the water is gone, the<BR>
remaining water is "enriched". Succesive steps will increase the<BR>
enrichment. And you can burn the O2 and H2 produced to get back most of<BR>
the power, and all of the water. <BR>
<BR>
So the plant takes in normal water, and emits heat, water low in<BR>
deuterium, heavy water, and heat. Fusing a small portion of the<BR>
deuterium produced will power the whole process.<BR>
<BR>
Final refining stages may use higher tech technique. And will seperate<BR>
any tritium present as a bonus.<BR>
<BR>
> I can see Terra replacing it's Global Warming issue with it's Paying The<BR>
> Vilani for all that Dee issue (one of the bureaux had a traditional role in<BR>
> power prodution, so I guess they would be the ones we'd buy all that Dee<BR>
> off).<BR>
<BR>
See above, Deuterium is *easy* to seperate, it's just expensive in<BR>
terms of power. Except that with fusion power, it's not that expensive.<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind that we have fission reactors (like the Canadaian CANDU<BR>
design) that use thousands of gallons of heavy water *per reactor*.<BR>
<BR>
Even if heavy water costs $100/liter, the deuterium in it produces so<BR>
much power that it's cheaper than oil on a power/dollar basis.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:24:23 +0400<BR>
From: "Andrew Long" <dyrnwynn@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 9 Sep 2000 11:56:00 EDT Marc<CardSharks@aol.com> said<BR>
>>>><BR>
In a message dated 9/9/00 9:55:19 AM Central Daylight Time,<BR>
Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<<BR>
 I've always been curious about exactly why the Kinunir's Captain had an<BR>
 Imperial Warrant in his possession and, as far as I know, its presence<BR>
 onboard the ship has never been explained. Anyone have any ideas?<BR>
<BR>
  >><BR>
Norris requerted help for the upcoming Fifth Frontier War and the Emperor<BR>
sent him one.<BR>
<<<<<BR>
<BR>
Now I'm confused. It says in 'Spinward Marches Campaign', pages 11 & 16 --<BR>
<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
(page 11)<BR>
Personalities<BR>
.<BR>
The Duke of Regina<BR>
.<BR>
Norris appealed directly to the Emperor for command of the Imperial forces<BR>
in the Marches, believing that he, the Duke, could best command the response<BR>
to a Zhodani attack. Although the Emperor responded by issuing a warrant<BR>
which put Norris in command, it was lost en route; due to the distances and<BR>
transit times involved, the very existence of the document remained unknown.<BR>
..<BR>
(page 16)<BR>
Norris, with some slight evidence that his warrant from the Emperor was on<BR>
Algine (aboard a wrecked cruiser down on the planet), led a secret<BR>
expedition to that interdicted world to recover the document. The quandary<BR>
that faced Norris was that he was prohibited from going to the interdicted<BR>
world of Algine without the express permission of the Emperor. The warrant,<BR>
if it was there, would be permission to go there; if it wasn't there, he<BR>
risked his career.<BR>
<BR>
Returning with the warrant...<BR>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<BR>
<BR>
OK, the first paragraph isn't very controversial, although the implication<BR>
is that the warrant was specifically for command of the Imperial Forces in<BR>
the Marches, rather than a generic 'Get out of Jail Free' card (it's been a<BR>
while since I've seen Kinunir - how explicit is the description of the<BR>
Warrant?) Also, my impression was that the events in Kinunir took place some<BR>
time before the war - Norris (or Dilgaadin) would have to have been<BR>
EXTREMELY prescient to have requested the warrant that far in advance, and<BR>
Strephon similarly trusting in one of his (minor) nobles...<BR>
<BR>
However, the second paragraph puts the boot in. The warrant is said to be ON<BR>
Algine, in a WRECKED cruiser. Algine is not Shionthy, the Kinunir wasn't<BR>
wrecked. So we have TWO Imperial warrants just floating about in the<BR>
Marches. This argues that someone is less than careful with such important<BR>
documents...<BR>
<BR>
Andy<BR>
<BR>
========================================================<BR>
Andrew Long  eMail: Dyrnwynn@hotmail.com<BR>
c/o EPMTS  Phone: +971 2 681 3100<BR>
P.O. Box 46426  Fax: +971 2 681 3802<BR>
Abu Dhabi  GSM: +971 50 661 0254<BR>
United Arab Emirates<BR>
========================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 23:28:24 -0500<BR>
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrod@santech.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 06:39 PM 9/10/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>
>At 16:16 10.09.00 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>>Quick question on the subject of Droyne invisibility (it has been bugging me<BR>
>>since the thread on that topic ended and I don't have either the orginal AM:<BR>
>>Droyne or the new Gurps reprint book):<BR>
>><BR>
>>Does Droyne invisibility work on other Droyne?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Ok, ive just read the passage in the GT:ARIII book.<BR>
>The invisibility is no true invisibility, but rather the power to make <BR>
>others ignore them.<BR>
>I think it would also work on Droyne, but they will have a better chance <BR>
>of seeing though the charade due to their better training.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I don't believe it would work on other Droyne since most of them are <BR>
psionically active (albeit at a low degree, but enough for psionic shields, <BR>
IIRC).  Since it is a Psionic ability (that even Chirpers haven't lost) it <BR>
would be blocked by the shields.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jimmy Simpson<BR>
	nimrodd@mail.com<BR>
"Cannot say.<BR>
  Saying, I would know.<BR>
  Do not know.<BR>
  So cannot say."<BR>
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:43:13 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
To reason this through we wil have to ask ourselves why the droyne and<BR>
chirpers have developped this ability anyway. It operates on a<BR>
subconscious level, and requires no training to use, so it seems to be<BR>
an 'evolved' attribute of the droyne. Being at work, and having no<BR>
access to my reference material (the holy books of canon), I can't<BR>
remeber much in the way of a description of the droyne homeworld, and if<BR>
the following questions were covered.<BR>
<BR>
Why was this invisibility required? <BR>
	a -  hiding from predators? <BR>
	b -  hiding from other hostile tribes?<BR>
<BR>
Did other species on the droyne homeworld have this ability? What other<BR>
abilities were innate to the species of the droyne homeworld?<BR>
<BR>
My view? Option 'a', with lots of other nasties available on the droyne<BR>
homeworld. <BR>
<BR>
Of course, the droyne cattle also have this ability, so it makes it<BR>
difficult to muster them!!! <BR>
	"Hey, where did that herd go?"<BR>
<BR>
There could be herds of droyne cattle all across the imperium, just that<BR>
no-one has ever seen them (except perhaps for a visiting K'kree!)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Jimmy Simpson [mailto:nimrod@santech.com]<BR>
> Sent: Monday, 11 September 2000 14:28<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
> I don't believe it would work on other Droyne since most of them are <BR>
> psionically active (albeit at a low degree, but enough for <BR>
> psionic shields, <BR>
> IIRC).  Since it is a Psionic ability (that even Chirpers <BR>
> haven't lost) it <BR>
> would be blocked by the shields.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3026<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 11 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3027<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
OT: Educational toys<BR>
Re: The Kinunir<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants) - SPOILER for CT adventure 1!!!<BR>
RE: AOL<BR>
RE: OT Educational toys<BR>
RE: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: this may be of some interest<BR>
RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
RE: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
Re: GT: Starships<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law <BR>
Re: 2001 Orion Spaceshuttles<BR>
Re: The Kinunir<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
Re: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
RE: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longis h)<BR>
Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:51:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I'd expect Imperial Warrants to read something like SOG cards from Vietnam<BR>
> and have similar instructions. Breaking down to,<BR>
> Stay out of the way.<BR>
> Do what you are told if you are in the way.<BR>
> Don't touch this if the bearer is dead but get your CO instead.<BR>
> Expect to go to Leavenworth if you don't do these things and get really<BR>
> lucky. (i.e. you aren't shot down on the spot.)<BR>
<BR>
I know somebody in Soldier of Fortune used to advertise replicas of<BR>
those cards. Wish I'd bought one.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:50:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I think MM was making a reference to the Cardinal Richelieu sort<BR>
> of warrant, which in the movie anyway, was the famous hastily-scribbled<BR>
> one-liner. <BR>
<BR>
It's the same in the book. <BR>
<BR>
Though I'd still like to know what the original French text was. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:38:19 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/10/00 11:26:01 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>
dyrnwynn@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< The warrant is said to be ON<BR>
 Algine, in a WRECKED cruiser. Algine is not Shionthy, the Kinunir wasn't<BR>
 wrecked. >><BR>
<BR>
I think the Markhashi was the one wrecked on Algine.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:39:13 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: OT: Educational toys<BR>
<BR>
Some company makes toys of prehistoric animals. They are on display on<BR>
the following URL:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.yowiepower.com/lostkingdoms/<BR>
<BR>
Look at toy number 20 in particular...  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
(I got the link from the Daily Illuminator)<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:41:30 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Warrants ARE kind of like SOG "Get Out Of Jail Free" Cards. They work with a <BR>
Spec-4 solider confronted with a CIA type; they don't work as well with an <BR>
Army Colonel in charge of a battalion.<BR>
<BR>
Even if Norris has a Warrant, he has to convince someone like Santanocheev to <BR>
respect it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:58:54 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
At 7:02 AM -0800 9/10/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>  > The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it means but it<BR>
>  > always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
><BR>
>You mean I'm not the only one to notice that? I've been (figuratively)<BR>
>biting my tongue for *days*.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The thought occured to me, I was just too discrete to say anything.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:35:20 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants) - SPOILER for CT adventure 1!!!<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/9/00 9:14:36 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< and yes, I remember playing Adventure One all those years ago, and at<BR>
 the end after we'd defeated Virus^H^H^H^H^H the rogue AI and had<BR>
 control of the Kinunir, one of the group turned to the rest of us and<BR>
 said (with great glee) "With this ship we can take over the Imperium!"<BR>
 <BR>
 Ah, the innocent days before any of us had read High Guard or seen a<BR>
 map of the entire Imperium...<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
I have this amusing mental image of that PC getting the old StarWars "that's <BR>
no moon" scene on his scanner as he/she gets a look at the REAL happy fun <BR>
ball: ie. a Tigress...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:46:13 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: AOL<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Thom Harris wrote :<BR>
> <BR>
> > I think you will find the following time line interesting.<BR>
> <snip>.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks.<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, I realised shortly after I posted that, that I confused the<BR>
> mention of Compuserve in the preceding paragraph with the <BR>
> later mention of<BR>
> AOL.<BR>
> <BR>
> AFAIK, we don't have AOL down here.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bit of OT trivia (or is it on topic because this is actually on Traveller):<BR>
in my current game the computer core was wiped. Fortunately for my<BR>
character, some nearby Aslan were able to rebuild my computer for me...but<BR>
they installed a male Aslan pseudo-personality, instead of the human I'm<BR>
used to dealing with. Here's the kicker...seems the GM's been looking for a<BR>
good place to use his discovery...that it's possible to generate Aol as an<BR>
Aslan name :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:09:56 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT Educational toys<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Some company makes toys of prehistoric animals. They are on display on<BR>
> the following URL:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.yowiepower.com/lostkingdoms/<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
My favourite is still the Demon Duck of Doom (36)...although Mario players<BR>
may find number 40 strangely familiar...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:16:51 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it <BR>
> >> means but it<BR>
> >> always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >> I just had to say that.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Personally, Kiri, I was picturing '101 things NOT to do <BR>
> with a time machine'<BR>
> > :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Read "The Man Who Folded Himself" by David Gerrold. It's pretty much<BR>
> the definitive work on the subject.<BR>
<BR>
Or Heinleins 'All you Zombies'...the time traveller is his own mother,<BR>
father, bartender, the guy who gave him the time machine etc etc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:15:43 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: this may be of some interest<BR>
<BR>
The joke is a variation on one I hear a long time ago...<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:17:14 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 3:43 PM +1000 9/11/00, Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
>To reason this through we wil have to ask ourselves why the droyne and<BR>
>chirpers have developped this ability anyway. It operates on a<BR>
>subconscious level, and requires no training to use, so it seems to be<BR>
>an 'evolved' attribute of the droyne. Being at work, and having no<BR>
>access to my reference material (the holy books of canon), I can't<BR>
>remeber much in the way of a description of the droyne homeworld, and if<BR>
>the following questions were covered.<BR>
><BR>
>Why was this invisibility required?<BR>
>	a -  hiding from predators?<BR>
>	b -  hiding from other hostile tribes?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
And c - sneaking up on food....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:35:23 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
<BR>
It doesn't ring a bell. Where is it?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Mark Preston [mailto:mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk]<BR>
> Sent: 10 September 2000 21:42<BR>
> To: Traveller Mailing List<BR>
> Subject: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> The title says it all. Any help gratefully welcome.<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
> Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
> Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 04:39:57 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT: Starships<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:24:00 +1100 (EST)<BR>
>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Re: GT : Starships and Imperial Navy sourcebooks<BR>
><BR>
>BTW - if anybody wants to use any of the designs I posted way back<BR>
>when (including for source books like Starships) feel free to do so<BR>
>(with recognition of course! :).  I might even be tempted to do some<BR>
>more designs if they are needed at all...<BR>
<BR>
On Robert's behalf, thanks for the offer. However, due to copyright<BR>
constraints (SJ Games must have clear, defensible rights to everything they<BR>
want to publish) if you want him to consider any material for inclusion in<BR>
GT: Starships you have to submit it to him directly. That way, there can be<BR>
no question that this is the material you wanted him to use. Similarly, any<BR>
material submitted for consideration cannot be in the public domain; i.e.,<BR>
if it's posted on your website, you have to take it down for the duration.<BR>
Once it's accepted, the submission becomes SJ Games property. Robert will<BR>
probably be able to tell you up front if he does not intend to use<BR>
something (for space reasons, or because he already has something similar),<BR>
in which case you get to keep it.<BR>
<BR>
That said, GT: Starships is supposed to be a compilation job, with Robert<BR>
coordinating submissions from a number of contributors. Contributors whose<BR>
material is used in the book will receive appropriate credit, and usually a<BR>
complementary copy of the book. I encourage you to contact him, Robert<BR>
Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca>, and see what gaps he is looking to fill.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 04:29:45 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
Now, my understanding was that Norris forged the warrant he used for<BR>
removing Santanocheev, and later recovered the real warrant.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:25:44 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
> From: Ian Whitchurch<BR>
> I think a lot of militaries would be in the same position. To take an<BR>
> example, lets look at Ludowick's Rapira-A. As a MBT, in my opinion it<BR>
> sucks. On the other hand, with minimal modification it is one hell of a<BR>
> Mobile Anti-Starship Laser Battery, and I would certainly buy two on a<BR>
> TL12 world with a low population, over one TL12 MBT in the same role.<BR>
<BR>
I guess so.  This is a better use for them than scuttling them in the<BR>
entrances to your enemies' harbours.<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, the Rapira design is gold-plated to the max.  It is just too<BR>
easy to build something that can come close to matching its performance<BR>
that costs an order of magnitude less.  The FS medium hovertank is a fine<BR>
example.<BR>
 <BR>
> A compromise would be to allow militaries to buy down 2 TLs. Much lower<BR>
> than that and you start to have the same problem of running a higher tech<BR>
> military than 'standard' - not enough people with the relevant skills<BR>
> sets to recruit from.<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of skill sets:  some of the best high tech toys might be<BR>
militarised civilian gear.  That is, if Heya wants an APC, they buy a<BR>
bog-standard off the shelf LSP ATV and stick some armour plate around it. <BR>
If they want an air superiority fighter, or a "helicopter gunship", buy a<BR>
standard air/raft, or a grav-bike, and stick some guns on it.  The idea is<BR>
that first, there are none of these embarassing legal issues, the products<BR>
are of a known standard, with easily available spare parts, and millions<BR>
and millions of trained operators and technicians can potentially be hired<BR>
to train your troops.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 14:02:23 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: Eamon Patrick Watters <E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date systems.<BR>
<BR>
Dom sent:<BR>
<BR>
>At 17:14 -0400 7/9/00, "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca> wrote:<BR>
>> > Well, look at Episode IV - all the Imperial Navy had British accents,<BR>
>> > and the actor playing Vader was British (?) IIRC.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>>Umm... ENGLISH. There IS a difference. I don't recall any Welsh,<BR>
>>Scottish or Northern Irish.<BR>
<BR>
>>He comes from Great Britain if he is English thus he is British.<BR>
<BR>
>Dom<BR>
<BR>
And I come from Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom, so I am United<BR>
Kingdomish (British for short) ;-)<BR>
<BR>
BTW, Michael Sheard (Admiral Ozzel from ESB) is Scottish, anyone calling<BR>
him English to his face is in for a mouthful.<BR>
<BR>
Eamon<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:23:54 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote,<BR>
>I know somebody in Soldier of Fortune used to advertise replicas of<BR>
those cards. Wish I'd bought one.<<BR>
<BR>
I saw a real one (allegedly).<BR>
I was somewhere between the Cardinal's Carte Blanche ("This person is acting<BR>
on the behalf of the President of the United States" or close to that), the<BR>
"Get Out of Jail Free Card" that Marc mentioned ("Do not interfere with the<BR>
bearer of this card." or again, close to that) and the injunction I<BR>
mentioned to not touch it no matter what under penalty of felony<BR>
court-martial. All in nice simple American with no real legalese so anyone<BR>
could understand it.<BR>
Interesting to note you need the power to go with the Warrant to make it<BR>
effective. I wonder how many time our version worked more on charisma and<BR>
bluff now than just the card itself. :)<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:52:07 +0100<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
In message <E5F33EAB0BD5D31196DA009027E03E55275459@crater.odetics.com>,<BR>
Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com> writes<BR>
>       It has been my general experience that English speakers are often<BR>
>more tolerant of wierd accents because 1) there are so  many of them, and 2)<BR>
>we are so used to hearing it spoken badly.  (that includes many native<BR>
>Americans ;o)  Contrast this with Iceland, for example.  No one seems to<BR>
>speak Icelandic except Icelanders and professors, so they are not used to<BR>
>hearing it mangled. (frustratingly easy to do).  If you try to ask for<BR>
>something in the store and use an -a at the end of that noun instead of an<BR>
>-an, they will just look at you blankly and then starting talking to you in<BR>
>English.  It was very demoralizing, let me tell you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
They laughed in Denmark, oh yes.  How are you supposed to know that<BR>
Hvidovre isn't pronounced "Hurvidovree" (Vithower) or tredive pronounced<BR>
"tralthver"?<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:45:32 -0500<BR>
From: adouglas@optonline.net<BR>
Subject: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law <BR>
<BR>
An interesting question has come up in my fledgling free trader/SM CT<BR>
campaign, to wit:<BR>
<BR>
How much do the players need to worry about the repercussions of their<BR>
actions?<BR>
<BR>
For the most part, interesting activities tend to also be somewhat illegal.<BR>
My players are hesitant to get involved in situations for fear that it'll<BR>
just wind up getting them busted. I'm trying to get them to take more risks,<BR>
but they're pushing back with the very valid point that risk is stupid if<BR>
the authorities are just going to come after you... the game should not turn<BR>
into Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.<BR>
<BR>
Likewise, we can't have them just skip town every time they do something<BR>
questionable. They will have to pass that way again sooner or later. And the<BR>
hassle can follow the players. You get in trouble on one world, and sooner<BR>
or later the word will spread and it'll catch up with you. Ultimately, the<BR>
PCs spend all their time running and looking over their collective shoulder.<BR>
<BR>
The nub of the conflict we're having is that I'm viewing the Traveller<BR>
universe as basically a civilized place. With civilization come rules of<BR>
conduct, both codified (laws) and unwritten (morality/ethics), along with a<BR>
lot of control over personal actions.<BR>
<BR>
Rules tend to stifle the sort of action that makes for good role playing,<BR>
unless one simplifies the universe by having a war or somesuch occur. Look<BR>
at fiction set in our own time; the exciting stuff all takes place outside<BR>
the law. That which takes place within the boundaries of the rules tends to<BR>
be too cerebral/mundane to hold the interest of most players. An episode of<BR>
Law & Order is great to watch, but it would make a lousy game scenario.<BR>
<BR>
So, how does one deal with this? IYTU, is it even an issue? Do I have to put<BR>
a lot of effort into getting the authorities to conveniently ignore what's<BR>
going on?<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Douglas<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:09:47 GMT<BR>
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 2001 Orion Spaceshuttles<BR>
<BR>
If anyone is still looking for the above, I saw a couple at an airshow over <BR>
the weekend (in the UK) - the kits were for sale on one of the stands, not <BR>
flying :( - if anyone wants the contact telephone number, drop me a line <BR>
offlist...<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Rowse (aka Captain Chicken, ad nauseum)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 08:56:57<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
At 12:52 AM 9/11/2000 +0200, Hans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>_The Kinunir_ was the first adventure written for Traveller, long before the<BR>
>Traveller Universe firmed up. It contains a number of, let us say, <BR>
>questionable features<BR>
<BR>
Like only 1/3 of the Marines being equipped with battledress?<BR>
<BR>
sorry, I couldn't resist.  :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/<BR>
                --|--<BR>
There's only us.      There's only this.<BR>
    No other way.     No other path.<BR>
          No day but today.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:20:49 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:42:22 +0100<BR>
> From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
> <BR>
> The title says it all. Any help gratefully welcome.<BR>
<BR>
Well, for one thing, I can never read it without hearing it sung to the<BR>
tune of "My Sharona".  (Must...not...filk...)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:21:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin writes:<BR>
> Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> types:<BR>
> >Mark Urbin writes:<BR>
> > > The CSA was a valid nation, just not for very long....<BR>
> >That rather depends on one's definition of 'valid', as it applies to<BR>
> >nations. <BR>
> <BR>
> It had a government, a set of written laws, armed forces, and was <BR>
> recognized by other governments.<BR>
<BR>
If by 'valid', you mean, 'the word government can be accurately applied to<BR>
this entity', then sure.  If by 'valid' you mean 'legitimate', sorry, a<BR>
government basically develops legitimacy by surviving...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:21:45 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longis h)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> For the most part, interesting activities tend to also be <BR>
> somewhat illegal.<BR>
<BR>
Ddepends on which planet you're on. Remember that in the Traveller universe,<BR>
member planet usually have independant governments...the Imperium as a whole<BR>
is only really interested in interstellar trade.<BR>
<BR>
> My players are hesitant to get involved in situations for <BR>
> fear that it'll<BR>
> just wind up getting them busted.<BR>
<BR>
I'm all for characters getting busted...leaves them open to requests for<BR>
'favours' from influencial persons in return for dropping the charges.<BR>
<BR>
> I'm trying to get them to <BR>
> take more risks,<BR>
> but they're pushing back with the very valid point that risk <BR>
> is stupid if<BR>
> the authorities are just going to come after you... the game <BR>
> should not turn<BR>
> into Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.<BR>
<BR>
Make 'em an offer they can't refuse. Possibilities:<BR>
<BR>
Corrupt officials<BR>
Time limits (eg. we've got to get the documents before the bank forecloses<BR>
tomorrow, but we can't get a search warrent for another week!)<BR>
Powerful incentives 'Either do this job for us, or will confiscate your<BR>
ship.' This one works particularly well with the above two, and with the<BR>
'Busted!' scenario above.<BR>
Great rewards...or the 'Carrot and stick' approach:- combine 'Great rewards'<BR>
with 'Powerful incentives'.<BR>
Diplomatic immunity (maybe the diplomat lied :) )<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
> Likewise, we can't have them just skip town every time they <BR>
> do something<BR>
> questionable. They will have to pass that way again sooner or <BR>
> later. <BR>
<BR>
For breaking into someone's office? I think that'll probably have blown over<BR>
by the time they come back. For blowing up the Starport? Fair enough.<BR>
<BR>
>And the<BR>
> hassle can follow the players. You get in trouble on one <BR>
> world, and sooner<BR>
> or later the word will spread and it'll catch up with you. <BR>
<BR>
Again, it really depends on how major the crime was...and if they were<BR>
caught. Remeber that communication travels as fast as people do. Frankly,<BR>
who's going to bother sending a message that 'Person or persons unknown<BR>
broke into the Port Administrators office. We really don't have a clue who<BR>
it was. Be on the lookout for everyone.' News of a Starport bombing might<BR>
spread sector wide, and the Imperium (or at least the subsector duke) would<BR>
take an interest due to the disruption of trade a downed starport<BR>
represents, but remember that local government stops at the XT line.<BR>
<BR>
> Ultimately, the<BR>
> PCs spend all their time running and looking over their <BR>
> collective shoulder.<BR>
<BR>
Good. I try to give my players enemies. If I'm stuck for an idea, the enemy<BR>
pulls into port. Note that an enemy does have to be the Law...it could be a<BR>
rival freetrader, a jilted lover etc. <BR>
 <BR>
> The nub of the conflict we're having is that I'm viewing the Traveller<BR>
> universe as basically a civilized place. With civilization <BR>
> come rules of<BR>
> conduct, both codified (laws) and unwritten <BR>
> (morality/ethics), along with a<BR>
> lot of control over personal actions.<BR>
<BR>
It is, but a *very* diverse and multicultural one. Some worlds rate<BR>
chocolate as a  narcotic and ban trade in it. Remember also that<BR>
moral/ethical structures are almost as widely varied as local languages or<BR>
government types...look at the differances between Kant, Mill and Aristotle<BR>
(yes, I'm a Pyramid reader :))<BR>
<BR>
> Rules tend to stifle the sort of action that makes for good <BR>
> role playing,<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, they can get in the way. Or they can add complication to an otherwise<BR>
straightforward situation...the players try to get what they want and not<BR>
insult the patron/get blown up by the Navy/land in jail/upset the mob<BR>
boss/cause a diplomatic incident and trigger interstallar war. In the last<BR>
case, remember that there are internal struggles between Imperial member<BR>
worlds...that what all those Mercs are for.<BR>
<BR>
> unless one simplifies the universe by having a war or <BR>
> somesuch occur. Look<BR>
> at fiction set in our own time; the exciting stuff all takes <BR>
> place outside<BR>
> the law.<BR>
<BR>
OK. Let the players be bank robbers/spies/cops. The main aim is<BR>
entertainment. <BR>
<BR>
> That which takes place within the boundaries of the <BR>
> rules tends to<BR>
> be too cerebral/mundane to hold the interest of most players. <BR>
> An episode of<BR>
> Law & Order is great to watch, but it would make a lousy game <BR>
> scenario.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah. Ick.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> So, how does one deal with this? IYTU, is it even an issue? <BR>
> Do I have to put<BR>
> a lot of effort into getting the authorities to conveniently <BR>
> ignore what's<BR>
> going on?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
IMTU (Querion-Vilis, Spinward Marches) we're right on the edge of various<BR>
interstallar governments...that's why I called it Empire's Edge. The players<BR>
don't know it, but they're involved in a Zhodani-Imperial<BR>
Intelligence-criminal underworld scam to smuggle psi-drugs into the<BR>
Imperium. Can't wait to see their faces :)<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:37:25 +0300<BR>
From: Paul =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=FCnnap?= <paul@sorainen.ee><BR>
Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
<BR>
> Likewise, we can't have them just skip town every time they do something<BR>
> questionable. They will have to pass that way again sooner or later. And the<BR>
> hassle can follow the players. You get in trouble on one world, and sooner<BR>
> or later the word will spread and it'll catch up with you. Ultimately, the<BR>
> PCs spend all their time running and looking over their collective shoulder.<BR>
> <BR>
Imperium is a very large place and although the news may travel fast<BR>
within some smaller group (maybe a megacorp puts them on a black list)<BR>
whom the pcs will have to avoid in the future there will still be plenty<BR>
of room to adventure (of course depending on what they did). After all<BR>
even in the modern world more often than not frauds and shady<BR>
businessmen can continue their business once the initial heat has<BR>
settled or just by changing a town or state.<BR>
<BR>
I've had great fun having PCs looking over their shoulders for MOJ<BR>
agents investigating past crimes. I've even had one pc die in a shoot<BR>
out with MOJ agents when the pc freaked then MOJ agents came to question<BR>
him concerning a case of deep space piracy a year ago (of course that<BR>
particular ethically challenged free trader was as guilty as can be).<BR>
After the incident the pcs ship was thoroughly searched and the pcs had<BR>
to muddle through a sea of red tape, but as the MOJ didn't have any<BR>
conclusive evidence they had to let them go with only some silly fines<BR>
for violations of safety and health standards.<BR>
> <BR>
> So, how does one deal with this? IYTU, is it even an issue? Do I have to put<BR>
> a lot of effort into getting the authorities to conveniently ignore what's<BR>
> going on?<BR>
> <BR>
In all games, not only Traveller I make an effort in trying to force the<BR>
players to plan ahead with the forethought that there will be an<BR>
investigation afterwards and that they need to cover their tracks if<BR>
they do something illegal. At the same time one must be careful to not<BR>
overdo it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3027<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3028</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 11 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3028<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
Fun at TL 5 (OT)<BR>
Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law <BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
Re: Statistical analysis of Spinal Weaponry<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Jae Tellona: A Song?<BR>
Aslan Pseudo-Personality <BR>
ADMIN:  DOMAIN NAME CHANGE<BR>
RE: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
FS TL10 Light Field Plasma Gun - the A-sharp<BR>
Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:53:00 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
Martin Hardgrave wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
><BR>
> They laughed in Denmark, oh yes.  How are you supposed to know that<BR>
> Hvidovre isn't pronounced "Hurvidovree" (Vithower) or tredive pronounced<BR>
> "tralthver"?<BR>
<BR>
Try Massachusetts: Worchester is pronounced 'Wooster', but Dorchester is<BR>
not pronounced 'Dooster'.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:58:52 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
<BR>
Oh good, there's another one like me out there...go ahead and filk...you<BR>
know you can't resist it. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:42:22 +0100<BR>
> > From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
> ><BR>
> > The title says it all. Any help gratefully welcome.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, for one thing, I can never read it without hearing it sung to the<BR>
> tune of "My Sharona".  (Must...not...filk...)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:05:47 EDT<BR>
From: TRiepe5898@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Yet I wouldn't put Australia's military forces a full TL behind the US.<BR>
> <BR>
> I would. MBT is the TL7 Leopard II. Main aircraft is the TL7 F18. Main<BR>
> strike aircraft is the TL6 F111 rebuilt to TL7. Navy ? I'm less sure. You<BR>
> might class the Collins as a TL8 Diesel Sub.<BR>
<BR>
What Leo II model are the Australians using? I certainly wouldnt classify an <BR>
A5 or A6 as lower-tech than the Abrams. And concerning aircraft: Isnt the <BR>
F-18 the main strike aircraft of the US Navy, too ( Along with the <BR>
not-exactly-new Intruder )? Both US and Australian forces probably have a <BR>
mixture of TL 6-8 equipment in Traveller terms, with the US having a larger <BR>
proportion of higher-tech stuff. Thus, your suggestion of allowing a 2 TL <BR>
difference of purchased equipment seems reasonable.<BR>
<BR>
Tobias Riepe<BR>
<BR>
P.S.: This may be kind of straightforward for a first post, but it seemed <BR>
like a place to start.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:17:20 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Fun at TL 5 (OT)<BR>
<BR>
	Well, of no possible interest to anyone, I know, but I just came<BR>
back from my semi-annual ritual of facing just how little excercise I get in<BR>
the computer industry, and how much we owe to our servicemen.  It was an<BR>
exausting Saturday out in the hills, clearing out the trenches of the WWI<BR>
re-enactment site, weaving more brush into the revetting, and digging the<BR>
new maschinengewehrstellung.  Once my muscles stop hurting it is back to the<BR>
gym.  <BR>
	For all of the listees who served their countries, my feldmutz is<BR>
off to you; and a heartfelt moment of silence for all the men and women on<BR>
all sides who 80 years ago fought a 'war to end wars'...and to all those who<BR>
have fought before and since.  Let us hope that though the battle they<BR>
fought was in vain, that one day we may finally accomplish their goal.  In<BR>
the words of H.G Wells:  "...lead soldiers leave behind no lead widows and<BR>
lead orphans."<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler - COFIT<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - Don't blame them; they just pay me, they don't tell me what to<BR>
think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:49:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law <BR>
<BR>
> For the most part, interesting activities tend to also be somewhat<BR>
illegal.<BR>
> My players are hesitant to get involved in situations for fear that it'll<BR>
> just wind up getting them busted. I'm trying to get them to take more<BR>
risks,<BR>
> but they're pushing back with the very valid point that risk is stupid if<BR>
> the authorities are just going to come after you... the game should not<BR>
turn<BR>
> into Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.<BR>
<BR>
This assumes that the unlawful activity isn't being sponsored by the<BR>
government itself, or some other individual with power and influence. The<BR>
players might, for example, be hired by a shadowy government employee who<BR>
needs some to 'get the job done' and can offer some limited<BR>
protection/immunity, provided the characters do make a real mess of things<BR>
(of course, the patron might be lying).<BR>
<BR>
Also, there's the potential of corruption.  If caught, the characters always<BR>
have the possibility of buying their way out of trouble, or doing a 'little<BR>
favor' to avoid jail.<BR>
<BR>
There is also the local goverment attitude about what is a crime.  If the<BR>
law level is low, or the government is particularly lazy/corrupt, they may<BR>
not bother with prosecution as long as there's no hue and cry from the<BR>
citizenry, or the players get out of town until the heat dies down.  Most of<BR>
my games take place on Regina starport, where there's a 'none of my<BR>
business' attitude, and the police don't bother investigating killings that<BR>
are essentially mutual combat, unless somebody with power or influence<BR>
weighs in.<BR>
<BR>
If you curious, read through some of the game notes at<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:30:48 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
<BR>
>Real World Example:  I was teaching a physics class and an example<BR>
>involving a space station came up.  I said, "You know, like Skylab."<BR>
>One of the freshmen said, "Skylab?  You mean that thing that fell from<BR>
>the sky?"<BR>
<BR>
I was working at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics then, and<BR>
put my $2 into the betting pool on where it would hit the earth.  We had a<BR>
big world map with pins marking our guesses. As I recall, several people<BR>
were very close (the closest won).<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:30:52 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants)<BR>
<BR>
>From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Raymond Pullar" <Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk>.<BR>
><BR>
>>I'm also curious about whether anyone ever had any of their players<BR>
actually<BR>
>>recover the Kinunir and end up with the Imperial Warrant in their<BR>
>>possession.<BR>
><BR>
>I got the impression that's what Duke Norris did, more or less...  TAS<BR>
>reports at the time of the 5FW describe him as disappearing from<BR>
>public view for a time (supposedly "ill"), then reappearing<BR>
>brandishing an Imperial Warrant which he used to relieve Santanocheev<BR>
>of command and take over himself.  In his memoirs (in Survival Margin)<BR>
<BR>
Kinunir is lost in 1088.<BR>
Norris becomes Duke in 1097.<BR>
Fifth Frontier War starts in 1107.<BR>
<BR>
The warrant on the Kinunir was certainly not intended for Norris, nor was it<BR>
intended for use in the Fifth Frontier War.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:32:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Statistical analysis of Spinal Weaponry<BR>
<BR>
I did a bit of analysis which just covered the easy case, where you get a<BR>
Crew-1 or higher hit, which effectively takes a ship out of action. You get<BR>
lots of these from the radiation damage table from meson guns. Of course,<BR>
this only applies to spinal meson weapons, but I found that using minimal<BR>
spinal meson ships with factor-T meson guns and big computers, you can<BR>
pretty much guarantee taking out even the biggest opposition in one turn. I<BR>
think (this could be a bit fuzzy) that by allocating some fairly small<BR>
number of firing ships against each monster ship you could take it out with<BR>
a 90% probability. Those factor-9 meson shields don't help you much at all,<BR>
since an attacker only needs 5+ on 2d6 to penetrate them (the accuracy of<BR>
this is also subject to my faulty memory), or penetrating 5 times out of 6.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:37:12 -0700<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 9/11/00 12:17 AM, summers@alum.mit.edu issued<BR>
forth:<BR>
<BR>
>> Why was this invisibility required?<BR>
>> a -  hiding from predators?<BR>
>> b -  hiding from other hostile tribes?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> And c - sneaking up on food....<BR>
<BR>
And d - privacy in a society of telepaths. Perhaps to Droyne it's just "hey,<BR>
don't pry!" but to non-psionic beings it works much more thoroughly.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 14:46:40 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Legitimate  govenments<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> puts out on the Ether:<BR>
>Mark Urbin writes:<BR>
> > Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> types:<BR>
> > >Mark Urbin writes:<BR>
> > > > The CSA was a valid nation, just not for very long....<BR>
> > >That rather depends on one's definition of 'valid', as it applies to<BR>
> > >nations.<BR>
> > It had a government, a set of written laws, armed forces, and was<BR>
> > recognized by other governments.<BR>
>If by 'valid', you mean, 'the word government can be accurately applied to<BR>
>this entity', then sure.  If by 'valid' you mean 'legitimate', sorry, a<BR>
>government basically develops legitimacy by surviving...<BR>
<BR>
That's why I had the time thing in there to start with "just  not for very <BR>
long."<BR>
<BR>
Was the United States under the Articles of Confederation 'valid' or <BR>
'legitimate'?<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
Exigis Domus Hillaria - http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:16:38 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but this ability started _before_ Droyne were Droyne. Chirpers<BR>
have it, so it's an evolutionarily derived trait, not a social one.<BR>
<BR>
Sneaking up on food is a far more likely answer, since it is something<BR>
that they have to consiously do; were it _originally_ a defense against<BR>
predators, they'd be invisible most of the time. As it is they're only<BR>
ivisible when they _want_ to be.<BR>
<BR>
Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Via electronic medium on 9/11/00 12:17 AM, summers@alum.mit.edu issued<BR>
> forth:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> Why was this invisibility required?<BR>
> >> a -  hiding from predators?<BR>
> >> b -  hiding from other hostile tribes?<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > And c - sneaking up on food....<BR>
> <BR>
> And d - privacy in a society of telepaths. Perhaps to Droyne it's just "hey,<BR>
> don't pry!" but to non-psionic beings it works much more thoroughly.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 14:03:18 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
At 12:16 PM -0700 9/11/00, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>Yeah, but this ability started _before_ Droyne were Droyne. Chirpers<BR>
>have it, so it's an evolutionarily derived trait, not a social one.<BR>
><BR>
>Sneaking up on food is a far more likely answer, since it is something<BR>
>that they have to consiously do; were it _originally_ a defense against<BR>
>predators, they'd be invisible most of the time. As it is they're only<BR>
>ivisible when they _want_ to be.<BR>
<BR>
On the topic of being invisible all the time, one issue is<BR>
the cost of invisibility.  For example, being intelligent<BR>
is wonderful thing.  OTOH, it requires significant calories<BR>
and an active metabolism.  The net result is that humans must<BR>
eat all the time (compared to a crocodile that can eat once<BR>
a month).<BR>
<BR>
In game terms invisibility doesn't require anything in game terms.<BR>
How does that relate to longer term evolutionary pressures?<BR>
Longer term increased energy needs won't really show up, so<BR>
it isn't clear.  Also, are psionics present on any other species?<BR>
Maybe some preditors have some mind shield that makes invisibility<BR>
more uncertain?<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 14:08:51 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: AuricTech Shipyards <aurictech@esweeet.com><BR>
Subject: Jae Tellona: A Song?<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:20:49 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
><BR>
>> Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:42:22 +0100<BR>
>> From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
>> <BR>
>> The title says it all. Any help gratefully welcome.<BR>
><BR>
>Well, for one thing, I can never read it without hearing it sung to the<BR>
>tune of "My Sharona".  (Must...not...filk...)<BR>
<BR>
Ah, yes.  From the K'kree album "Get the G'naak."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
==<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/colverber/travler.html<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________<BR>
Free eSweeet Mail - http://www.esweeet.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:34:57 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Aslan Pseudo-Personality <BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>Bit of OT trivia (or is it on topic because this is actually on Traveller):<BR>
>in my current game the computer core was wiped. Fortunately for my<BR>
>character, some nearby Aslan were able to rebuild my computer for me...but<BR>
>they installed a male Aslan pseudo-personality, instead of the human I'm<BR>
>used to dealing with. Here's the kicker...seems the GM's been looking for a<BR>
>good place to use his discovery...that it's possible to generate Aol as an<BR>
>Aslan name :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
By my thinking, to be strictly in keeping with Aslan gender based division<BR>
of labor, the pseudo-personality should be female.   After all such a<BR>
computer would generally be doing a preponderance of female tasks.   Does<BR>
anyone agree?  Alternatively there could be two personalities, with the<BR>
previously unknown male warrior personality suddenly asserting himself in<BR>
"battle mode".  That would put the "cat" among the pigeoniods wouldn't it,<BR>
...just.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:43:42 -0400<BR>
From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@ient.com><BR>
Subject: ADMIN:  DOMAIN NAME CHANGE<BR>
<BR>
On Friday, September 15, we will cease using the name "imagiconline.com" in <BR>
favor of the much nicer "ient.com".  This new name is active now.  Sorry <BR>
for the short notice.<BR>
<BR>
Please update any web pages, FAQs or other references you have to <BR>
imagiconline.com.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Yer List Mom<BR>
Rob.<BR>
<BR>
***  Semi-vary Rare Advertisement ***  (Remember you do get this service <BR>
for free!!!!)<BR>
Visit www.ient.com for the best online games on this planet and most of the <BR>
rest of civilized space.<BR>
- --<BR>
Rob Miracle <rmiracle@iencentral.com><BR>
Director of Internet Development<BR>
Be patient or be a patient. -- Anton Devious<BR>
http://www.iencentral.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:12:38 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
<BR>
The only thing (apart from the UPP) that I _do_ know is that it is in<BR>
0404, Rhylanor, Spinward Marches. It is a non-industrial desert world<BR>
and has UPP A245543, 8, N(aval yard), G. And now that I know my ship<BR>
is more than just salvage I'm sort of pleased to have 20 tons of<BR>
hi-tech industrial machinery aboard and would like to trade.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> Jones, Dean<BR>
> Sent: 11 September 2000 09:35<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'<BR>
> Subject: RE: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
><BR>
> It doesn't ring a bell. Where is it?<BR>
><BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: Mark Preston [mailto:mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk]<BR>
> ><BR>
> > The title says it all. Any help gratefully welcome.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:01:18 +0100<BR>
From: "Neil McGurk" <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
Hello All<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 5:12 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Snip<BR>
<BR>
> You forgot the following:<BR>
><BR>
> finger (??)<BR>
> hand (4 inches)<BR>
> Span (6 inches) (from end of thumb to little finger*)<BR>
> cubit (18 inches) (from fingertip to elbow*)<BR>
> ell (45 inches) (from fingertip to opposite shoulder*)<BR>
> fathom (6 feet) (from finertip to opposite fingertip*)<BR>
><BR>
> * with arm/fingers spread.<BR>
><BR>
> The yard, btw, is from fingertip to nose. Note that the yard, Ell, and<BR>
> fathom are all based on "logical" ways of measuring rope, cord, or cloth.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I know of at least three different lengths for an Ell. All used in 15th<BR>
century England. I would say in 20th century England none are used. What a<BR>
difference 500 years make.<BR>
<BR>
I am of a strange group in England. I was taught the metric system at<BR>
school, but can work in inches, feet, yards and mile for distance but I can<BR>
not tell you how many ounces are in a pound.<BR>
<BR>
Snip<BR>
<BR>
Nellkyn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:27:47 +0100<BR>
From: "Neil McGurk" <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
Derek<BR>
<BR>
thee know nowt.<BR>
<BR>
Yar live on the wrong sid o' the Pennines. The may have even bin born on<BR>
wrong side.<BR>
<BR>
Yorkshire is God's own county. I've got too agree about the 'Toddle Pip'<BR>
comment. Bluff, Common Northerners together against Shandy Drinking<BR>
Southerners.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry for wasted band width.<BR>
<BR>
Ta Ra.<BR>
<BR>
Nellkyn<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Derrick Jones <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
To: 'Traveller Digest' <traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 8:41 AM<BR>
Subject: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Bruce<BR>
><BR>
> >"Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
><BR>
> Most people with half a brain (or at least a working knowlege of<BR>
'billinger'<BR>
>  - a local dialect favoured by the people of Billinge in times gone by*)<BR>
would<BR>
> know that a gibbet is a unit of volume (especially when used re alchohol),<BR>
> and that 'scrumly' is a fermented drink made from potato & apple mash<BR>
> frequently home made by miners (in the same dialect).<BR>
><BR>
> I could only see the above being grammatically correct if switch around<BR>
> the words to make "arf a gibbet o' scrumly' pas th'auld chap"<BR>
><BR>
> Matt Bond:<BR>
> And re your ending, nobody but a 'shandy drinking southern poofter' would<BR>
> use 'toodle pip' as a farewell.<BR>
><BR>
> Arl Sithee,<BR>
><BR>
> Derrick<BR>
><BR>
> Derrick Jones<BR>
> St Helens<BR>
> Lancashire UK<BR>
> http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
><BR>
> *(Anyone want to argue this point? Dou'st owt Billingers on't'list?) Point<BR>
to<BR>
> you none northern english UK types: Billinge was (and is) the battlefield<BR>
of choice<BR>
> for the neighbouring towns of St Helens (on't'sunny side o'th'ill) and<BR>
Wigan,<BR>
> (wheer them et'allt'pies!)... I could go on, but you probably wish I<BR>
wouldn't!....<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:34:27 +0100<BR>
From: "Neil McGurk" <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
The Yorkshire Dialect Society is still going strong after over one hundred<BR>
years.<BR>
<BR>
Yorkshire is so large a county that even now with TV and radio there are<BR>
still two dialects that at times are mutually incomprehensible.<BR>
<BR>
Nellkyn<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2000 8:08 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I stand in awe. Either I<BR>
><BR>
> A) coincidentally posted almost grammatic gibberish<BR>
><BR>
> B) I'm channeling some long-ago billinger ancestor.<BR>
><BR>
> C) any given gibberish probably means something in an obscure English<BR>
> dialect.<BR>
><BR>
> Long ago, I read that England had some huge number, like 200, distinct<BR>
> dialects, of which a large number were mutually incomrehensible.<BR>
><BR>
> While in the modern age of radio and teevee many if not most of them<BR>
> have died out, are many still around? Are there, foex, B'billinger'<BR>
> clubs where people learn to speak these old dialect and/or try to keep<BR>
> them alive?<BR>
><BR>
> oBTrav Given that galanglic is likely a mongrel language, derived from a<BR>
> pidgin along the line, and surviving a 100 year Long Night, are there<BR>
> likely to be many different dialects still around, even after almost<BR>
> 1200 years of the Imperium?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Derrick Jones wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Bruce<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >"Oh, a half-a gibbet past the scrumley, old chap!"<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Most people with half a brain (or at least a working knowlege of<BR>
'billinger'<BR>
> >  - a local dialect favoured by the people of Billinge in times gone by*)<BR>
would<BR>
> > know that a gibbet is a unit of volume (especially when used re<BR>
alchohol),<BR>
> > and that 'scrumly' is a fermented drink made from potato & apple mash<BR>
> > frequently home made by miners (in the same dialect).<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I could only see the above being grammatically correct if switch around<BR>
> > the words to make "arf a gibbet o' scrumly' pas th'auld chap"<BR>
> --<BR>
> Bruce Johnson<BR>
> University of Arizona<BR>
> College of Pharmacy<BR>
> Information Technology Group<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:09:20 +0100<BR>
From: "Neil McGurk" <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 7:27 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > Tangential to that subject - what the hell is a pair of Oxfords (I know<BR>
> > they're shoes but what kind?)<BR>
<BR>
In the 1920's AFAIR they were also a style of trouser. The 'Oxford bags' was<BR>
the full name and gives you some idea of the style. The rest of the country<BR>
called them Oxfords.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> "dress shoes" or else the white & brown ones.<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
Nellkyn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:51:51 +0100<BR>
From: "Neil McGurk" <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Ben Aaronovitch <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 2:35 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
Snip<BR>
<BR>
> For some reason 'Fall' is the one Americanism(?) that really grates when I<BR>
hear<BR>
> or read it. I don't know why, nothing else in American English has that<BR>
effect,<BR>
> not even people talking about taking off their pants and fanny slapping.<BR>
><BR>
> Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
Me too, until I developed an interest in late 15th century English history<BR>
and was glad that the USA still made use of the word. It may be obvious to<BR>
others but Fall didn't mean a lot to me until an American pointed out that<BR>
it was autumn.<BR>
<BR>
Nellkyn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:26:29 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: FS TL10 Light Field Plasma Gun - the A-sharp<BR>
<BR>
A compact weapon system with surprising punch, the A-sharp is designed to<BR>
provide a devestating anti-armour weapon to support infantry in defensive<BR>
positions. With a 1.4 km effective range, dug-in troops equipped with<BR>
chameleon-coated CE suits will have a better than sporting chance of getting<BR>
a flank shot at advancing armour.<BR>
<BR>
Battery-powered, it can crunch fourteen centimeters of crystaliron, and at a<BR>
mere KCr 75 apiece they provide more than affordable anti-armour capability<BR>
for your infantry force.<BR>
<BR>
**********<BR>
<BR>
10 MW input/2 MW output Plasma gun ; 100 kg, KCr 40<BR>
1500 MWs-1 batteries (5 phases fire) ; 500 kg, KCr 26.25<BR>
TL7 DFC ; 20 kg, KCr 5<BR>
Towed Carriage ; 900 kg, KCr 4<BR>
<BR>
Total : 1.5t, KCr 70.25 (KCr 75 with FS' profit margin)<BR>
<BR>
Crew 1; Range 1.4 km(46)/2.5 km(34)/4 km(8). Burst effect of 1/28 at<BR>
effective range, 1/15 at long range.<BR>
<BR>
See 55(3) for Concealed Bunkers. Basically, you need 11m3 of dirt moved for<BR>
the bunker (2 hours with a dozer or explosives), plus 0.03 m3 of armour<BR>
plate for 5cm of overhead cover, plus 4 man-hours to conceal the bunker.<BR>
This camoflagued field fortification will be treated as 'infantry stationary<BR>
under concealment'.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:02:10 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:38:19 EDT<BR>
>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
><BR>
>> The warrant is said to be ON<BR>
>> Algine, in a WRECKED cruiser. Algine is not Shionthy, the Kinunir wasn't<BR>
>> wrecked. <BR>
><BR>
>I think the Markhashi was the one wrecked on Algine.<BR>
<BR>
so, Marc, are you saying that *every* Kinunir-class battlecruiser has<BR>
an Imperial Warrant in the Captain's stateroom?    ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Maybe that's why Imperial nobles seem to have such a high opinion of<BR>
these ships' capabilities...<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3028<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3029</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/11/00 8:51:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 11 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3029<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Measures<BR>
Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants) - SPOILER for CT adventure 1!!!<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
***  Semi-vary Rare Advertisement ***<BR>
Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: ***  Semi-vary Rare Advertisement ***<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re:  Measures<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
RE: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Measures<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
Re: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:15:00 EDT<BR>
From: LB2NOLA@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:15:03 EDT<BR>
From: LB2NOLA@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:13:10 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Measures<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>> finger (??)<BR>
>> hand (4 inches)<BR>
>> Span (6 inches) (from end of thumb to little finger*)<BR>
>> cubit (18 inches) (from fingertip to elbow*)<BR>
>> ell (45 inches) (from fingertip to opposite shoulder*)<BR>
>> fathom (6 feet) (from finertip to opposite fingertip*)<BR>
>><BR>
>> * with arm/fingers spread.<BR>
>><BR>
>> The yard, btw, is from fingertip to nose. Note that the yard, Ell, and<BR>
>> fathom are all based on "logical" ways of measuring rope, cord, or cloth.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>I know of at least three different lengths for an Ell. All used in 15th<BR>
>century England. I would say in 20th century England none are used. What a<BR>
>difference 500 years make.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
To add to the discussion there are several Arab units of arc based on finger<BR>
and palm widths of the night sky obscured when the hand is held at arms<BR>
length from the body.   I will look them up if anyone is interested.  As a<BR>
tough one does anyone know what an arshine measures and upon what it is<BR>
based.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:33:27 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants) - SPOILER for CT adventure 1!!!<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <Sethkimmel@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 7:35 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Kinunir (and Imperial Warrants) - SPOILER for CT adventure 1!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 9/9/00 9:14:36 PM !!!First Boot!!!,<BR>
> stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk writes:<BR>
><BR>
> << and yes, I remember playing Adventure One all those years ago, and at<BR>
>  the end after we'd defeated Virus^H^H^H^H^H the rogue AI and had<BR>
>  control of the Kinunir, one of the group turned to the rest of us and<BR>
>  said (with great glee) "With this ship we can take over the Imperium!"<BR>
><BR>
>  Ah, the innocent days before any of us had read High Guard or seen a<BR>
>  map of the entire Imperium...<BR>
>   >><BR>
><BR>
> I have this amusing mental image of that PC getting the old StarWars<BR>
"that's<BR>
> no moon" scene on his scanner as he/she gets a look at the REAL happy fun<BR>
> ball: ie. a Tigress...:-)<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of Tigresses and Space Stations, after looking at the BITS<BR>
Traveller: Full Thrust poster at GenCon UK, (Which uses part of one of<BR>
Jesse's earlier versions of the 'Rim of Fire' cover) I turned to Dom Mooney<BR>
and said:<BR>
<BR>
"That's not a Space Station... It's a Moon!"<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:31:55 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
>From: TRiepe5898@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
>P.S.: This may be kind of straightforward for a first post, but it seemed<BR>
>like a place to start.<BR>
<BR>
Straightforward _and_ on-topic?  Gentlesophonts, I move that we deem the<BR>
newbie essay requirement completed in Mr. Riepe's case.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
Glenn M. Goffin, Honorary Consul of the Government of the Planet Mongo<BR>
and Its Most Munificent and Protuberant Ruler<BR>
Ming the Merciless<BR>
<BR>
and TML Great Old One<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:31:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
>Try Massachusetts: Worchester is pronounced 'Wooster', but Dorchester is<BR>
>not pronounced 'Dooster'.<BR>
<BR>
It's not pronounced Dorchester, either, but rather "daawchestah".<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:31:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: ***  Semi-vary Rare Advertisement ***<BR>
<BR>
>From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@ient.com><BR>
>Subject: ADMIN:  DOMAIN NAME CHANGE<BR>
<BR>
>***  Semi-vary Rare Advertisement ***  (Remember you do get this service<BR>
>for free!!!!)<BR>
<BR>
And damned good service it is, I would add.  We get much more than we pay<BR>
for.  Thanks for your tireless efforts, Rob.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:37:57 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Stephen Tempest wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 01:38:19 EDT<BR>
> >From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> The warrant is said to be ON<BR>
> >> Algine, in a WRECKED cruiser. Algine is not Shionthy, the Kinunir wasn't<BR>
> >> wrecked.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I think the Markhashi was the one wrecked on Algine.<BR>
> <BR>
> so, Marc, are you saying that *every* Kinunir-class battlecruiser has<BR>
> an Imperial Warrant in the Captain's stateroom?    ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
> Maybe that's why Imperial nobles seem to have such a high opinion of<BR>
> these ships' capabilities...<BR>
<BR>
Well, now I know what additional feature to offer on future AuricTech<BR>
designs....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:41:51 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >From: TRiepe5898@aol.com<BR>
> <BR>
> >P.S.: This may be kind of straightforward for a first post, but it seemed<BR>
> >like a place to start.<BR>
> <BR>
> Straightforward _and_ on-topic?  Gentlesophonts, I move that we deem the<BR>
> newbie essay requirement completed in Mr. Riepe's case.<BR>
<BR>
Since Mr. Riepe's first post was not only straightforward and on-topic,<BR>
but also an answer, rather than a question, I second the motion.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:46:15 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: ***  Semi-vary Rare Advertisement ***<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
><BR>
> >From: Rob Miracle <rmiracle@ient.com><BR>
> >Subject: ADMIN:  DOMAIN NAME CHANGE<BR>
> <BR>
> >***  Semi-vary Rare Advertisement ***  (Remember you do get this service<BR>
> >for free!!!!)<BR>
> <BR>
> And damned good service it is, I would add.  We get much more than we pay<BR>
> for.  Thanks for your tireless efforts, Rob.<BR>
> <BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
> <BR>
Seconded!  Good job and thanks, Rob!<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
AKA   Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:48:15 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
At 4:31 PM -0700 9/11/00, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:<BR>
>  >From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
><BR>
>  >Try Massachusetts: Worchester is pronounced 'Wooster', but Dorchester is<BR>
>  >not pronounced 'Dooster'.<BR>
><BR>
>It's not pronounced Dorchester, either, but rather "daawchestah".<BR>
<BR>
Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".  Worchester is "Wooster" but<BR>
Dorchester is closer to how most would pronounce it.  It is<BR>
humours observation in Boston that you can tell how long a<BR>
newscaster (they tend to move around and are often from others<BR>
parts of the country) has been in New England by how he pronounces<BR>
place names.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:52:18 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >Real World Example:  I was teaching a physics class and an example<BR>
> >involving a space station came up.  I said, "You know, like Skylab."<BR>
> >One of the freshmen said, "Skylab?  You mean that thing that fell from<BR>
> >the sky?"<BR>
> <BR>
> I was working at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics then, and<BR>
> put my $2 into the betting pool on where it would hit the earth.  We had a<BR>
> big world map with pins marking our guesses. As I recall, several people<BR>
> were very close (the closest won).<BR>
<BR>
Then there's the current equivalent:  Mir.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.brunching.com/toys/toy-mirlanding.html<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:52:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  Measures<BR>
<BR>
Daniel Phelps wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> To add to the discussion there are several Arab units of arc based on<BR>
finger<BR>
> and palm widths of the night sky obscured when the hand is held at arms<BR>
> length from the body.   I will look them up if anyone is interested.  As a<BR>
> tough one does anyone know what an arshine measures and upon what it is<BR>
> based.<BR>
<BR>
I believe that it is a unit of length, equal to about 2 feet. Its origin is<BR>
from the traditional length of the leather ropes used to control the horses<BR>
ridden by the early Mongol horsemen, whence the term "rein arshine."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:56:48 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Neil McGurk <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 9:27 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Yorkshire is God's own county. I've got too agree about the 'Toddle Pip'<BR>
> comment. Bluff, Common Northerners together against Shandy Drinking<BR>
> Southerners.<BR>
><BR>
I feel as a Londoner that I must answer this challange in my native idiom.<BR>
<BR>
'Bollocks' :)<BR>
<BR>
Actually as a Londoner I get really agreived at the way I'm constantly lumped<BR>
together with people from the Home Counties.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 01:37:27 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 12:56 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Neil McGurk <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 9:27 PM<BR>
> Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > Yorkshire is God's own county. I've got too agree about the 'Toddle Pip'<BR>
> > comment. Bluff, Common Northerners together against Shandy Drinking<BR>
> > Southerners.<BR>
> ><BR>
> I feel as a Londoner that I must answer this challange in my native idiom.<BR>
><BR>
> 'Bollocks' :)<BR>
><BR>
> Actually as a Londoner I get really agreived at the way I'm constantly<BR>
lumped<BR>
> together with people from the Home Counties.<BR>
><BR>
> Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
Shouldn't that be "Leaf it art!" or perhaps "Fack orf!" if you're from dahn<BR>
sarf? <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 17:04:35 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
<BR>
adouglas@optonline.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> An interesting question has come up in my fledgling free trader/SM CT<BR>
> campaign, to wit:<BR>
> <BR>
> How much do the players need to worry about the repercussions of their<BR>
> actions?<BR>
<BR>
FWIW, this is the very conundrum that lead GDW down to path to<BR>
Rebellion. Increasingly (and look at the entries in 76 Patrons!) the<BR>
PC's were ending up being criminals, just to have something to do. While<BR>
this doesn't necessarily need be the case, the Rebellion and the chaos<BR>
associated with it opend things up for players to be 'good guys' (at<BR>
least according to _their_ side) and have all the rollicking<BR>
heavy-on-the-hardware a firefight-a-day type adventures.<BR>
<BR>
Within the constructs of a free-trader campaign, you need to think up<BR>
the macguffins, those plot elements that keep your people off looking<BR>
for someone/something/somewhere without necessarily breaking the law.<BR>
Like looking for the advanced sensors that _used_ to be on your ship,<BR>
until the local Navy forces blew it up while stopping the pyrates who<BR>
were stealing your ship from you.<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:38:44 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
> At 4:31 PM -0700 9/11/00, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:<BR>
> > > From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
> > > Try Massachusetts: Worchester is pronounced 'Wooster', but<BR>
> > > Dorchester is not pronounced 'Dooster'.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >It's not pronounced Dorchester, either, but rather "daawchestah".<BR>
><BR>
> Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".<BR>
<BR>
Well we English say "gloster"<BR>
<BR>
> Worchester is "Wooster" but<BR>
> Dorchester is closer to how most would pronounce it.<BR>
<BR>
And of course, "chester" _should_ be pronouncd "ky-ster" as it's a<BR>
corruption of the Latin derived 'caister' or 'caester'<BR>
<BR>
And just to confuse everyone Winchester is usually pronounced how it is<BR>
spelt...<BR>
<BR>
> It is humours observation in Boston that you can tell how long a<BR>
> newscaster (they tend to move around and are often from others<BR>
> parts of the country) has been in New England by how he pronounces<BR>
> place names.<BR>
<BR>
Even more so in New Zealand.<BR>
<BR>
How do _you_ think you should say "Wanganui" or "Whakatane" ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:49:25 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Even more so in New Zealand.<BR>
> <BR>
> How do _you_ think you should say "Wanganui" or "Whakatane" ?<BR>
<BR>
"Throat-warbler-mangrove"?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 01:48:32 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
> <BR>
> How do _you_ think you should say "Wanganui" or "Whakatane" ?<BR>
> <BR>
> Frankie<BR>
<BR>
Ok, I'll give it a go [and look like an idiot <g>]<BR>
<BR>
"One-ga-noo-ee"<BR>
<BR>
"Wa-ka-ta-knee"<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
(expecting 0/2...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 02:07:08 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
That's exactly what I'm talking about.<BR>
<BR>
I'm from North London not Sarf London.<BR>
<BR>
BTW: Bollocks is a rare example of tonality in English. Its meaning is entirely<BR>
dependent on the tone in which it is spoken.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
> > > Yorkshire is God's own county. I've got too agree about the 'Toddle Pip'<BR>
> > > comment. Bluff, Common Northerners together against Shandy Drinking<BR>
> > > Southerners.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > I feel as a Londoner that I must answer this challange in my native idiom.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > 'Bollocks' :)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Actually as a Londoner I get really agreived at the way I'm constantly<BR>
> lumped<BR>
> > together with people from the Home Counties.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
><BR>
> Shouldn't that be "Leaf it art!" or perhaps "Fack orf!" if you're from dahn<BR>
> sarf? <g><BR>
><BR>
> Matt<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:55:36 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Measures<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>I believe that it is a unit of length, equal to about 2 feet. Its origin is<BR>
>from the traditional length of the leather ropes used to control the horses<BR>
>ridden by the early Mongol horsemen, whence the term "rein arshine."<BR>
><BR>
I was told that it was the length of an infantryman's pace in the Russian<BR>
army and dates to before the revolution.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:08:20 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
> > Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".<BR>
> <BR>
> Well we English say "gloster"<BR>
> <BR>
In Canada we say Gloster too.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:49:28 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
<BR>
It also appears as one of the planets of interest in one the two<BR>
MegaTraveller computer games. I just can't remember which one or what was<BR>
specific to it.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The only thing (apart from the UPP) that I _do_ know is that it is in<BR>
> 0404, Rhylanor, Spinward Marches. It is a non-industrial desert world<BR>
> and has UPP A245543, 8, N(aval yard), G. And now that I know my ship<BR>
> is more than just salvage I'm sort of pleased to have 20 tons of<BR>
> hi-tech industrial machinery aboard and would like to trade.<BR>
><BR>
> > > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > > From: Mark Preston [mailto:mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk]<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > The title says it all. Any help gratefully welcome.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:09:27 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
On 09/11/00 at 09:53 AM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Martin Hardgrave wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>><BR>
>> They laughed in Denmark, oh yes.  How are you supposed to know that<BR>
>> Hvidovre isn't pronounced "Hurvidovree" (Vithower) or tredive pronounced<BR>
>> "tralthver"?<BR>
<BR>
>Try Massachusetts: Worchester is pronounced 'Wooster', but Dorchester is<BR>
>not pronounced 'Dooster'.<BR>
<BR>
Isn't that how they are pronounced in England, too?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:16:55 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
On 09/11/00 at 10:08 PM,  "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> > Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Well we English say "gloster"<BR>
>> <BR>
>In Canada we say Gloster too.<BR>
<BR>
So do we in the US...Boston not withstanding. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:37:56 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
On 10 Sep 2000, at 6:09, Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Megan Robertson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > The 'feats' seem to me overkill, in fact that's somewhat how the whole<BR>
> > thing strikes me - too overpowered. The core mechanic's fine, it's what<BR>
> > has been piled on top...<BR>
> <BR>
> I actually like the feats, though I think the application is<BR>
> unbalanced, very much in favor of human fighters, too.<BR>
> And it will be a nightmare to deal with in high-level combat.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think they are, because other classes have corresponding abilities.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:47:25 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 5:00:pm<BR>
Subject: RE: Good Guy Yanks and Bad Guy Brits<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
> > ObTrav: What accents do you use in your games?  My Zhodani are always<BR>
> > Russian or Germans.  I use southern accents for Tarsans and<BR>
> > nobles always<BR>
> > have foppish british accents of course...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Charles C.<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> I'm terrible at accents, so everyone has either a home counties or London<BR>
> accent, and even the the line blurs :)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Heheheh... A GM I once knew was just like that, only the accent would waver<BR>
from one to the other of the only two accents he could manage... and this<BR>
was during the same sentence!<BR>
<BR>
As for me, I used to do the Zho's with a Soviet/German/Arnie accent;<BR>
belters, engineers, and most scouts seemed to have Scottish accents for some<BR>
reason?  Solomani had American accents, and selected NPC's that needed<BR>
something extra could have South African, New Zealand ("Goin' to thur shop<BR>
for some foosh n' chups), Cockney and sometimes Welsh (which I can't do real<BR>
well), Southern US, Italian, French, and "English" accents... while ALL<BR>
nobles seemed to have that "plumb-in-mouth" English accent...<BR>
<BR>
There was also a caveat on this... I could only do the accents in game with<BR>
players I really knew well - and never on demand! LOL!<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:51:02 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: michael.scanlon <michael.scanlon@Bmthonline.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2000 11:18:pm<BR>
Subject: Re: Salvage (was Re: Kinunir)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> > Subject: Re: Kinunir<BR>
><BR>
> > Since it's<BR>
> > owned by the sovereign, normal salvage law may not even apply.<BR>
> >><BR>
> Normal salvage laws do not apply to warships. The theory is that you have<BR>
> a duty as a citizen to help the sovereign recover his vessels. Vessels<BR>
> (but particularly warships) belonging to a different state are legally<BR>
> extraterritorial enclaves, even if derelict. Stealing one is tantamount to<BR>
> invading their territory, although among governments themselves the Law of<BR>
> the Jungle applies.<BR>
><BR>
> Salvage in the Imperium probably follows British law, where all derelicts<BR>
> are property of the Lord of the Manor where they are found. Salvage fees<BR>
> are established in international law to encourage the rescue of vessels in<BR>
> distress (required in the Imperium by the Navigation Act of 103), and to<BR>
> discourage piracy by offering an incentive to return the vessel intact.<BR>
><BR>
> <<<BR>
> Surely there must be a point at which, the item being left as an hulk in<BR>
> space, is no longer redeamable to the paries which at first it belonged<BR>
too,<BR>
> this point being, where the cost for search and recovery, of such an item<BR>
,<BR>
> is no longer vialble. At this point, salvage by another party has to be<BR>
> valid.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
well, in governmental terms, it can simply mean that, "It's to much trouble<BR>
and cost for us to find it, but if we keep it on the books as ours, and<BR>
someone else stumbles across it..."<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3030</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/12/00 6:54:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 12 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3030<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
Striker ROF's (was Re: FS TL10 Light Field PG)<BR>
Challenge magazine index?<BR>
Roc: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
Re: Educational toys<BR>
Re: Measures<BR>
J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
RE: Aslan Pseudo-Personality <BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
RE: Jae Tellona: A Song?<BR>
RE: Fun at TL 5 (OT)<BR>
Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
RE: Measures<BR>
RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
RE: Measures<BR>
Re: dating yourself...<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
High Guard Shipyard v1.02 released<BR>
RE: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
RE: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longish)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:46:46 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
<BR>
On 09/11/00 at 05:04 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> An interesting question has come up in my fledgling free<BR>
>> trader/SM CT campaign, to wit:<BR>
  <BR>
>> How much do the players need to worry about the repercussions of<BR>
>> their actions?<BR>
<BR>
They *should* worry about it.<BR>
<BR>
>FWIW, this is the very conundrum that lead GDW down to path to<BR>
>Rebellion.  Increasingly (and look at the entries in 76 Patrons!)<BR>
>the PC's were ending up being criminals, just to have something to<BR>
>do.  While this doesn't necessarily need be the case, the Rebellion<BR>
>and the chaos associated with it opend things up for players to be<BR>
>'good guys' (at least according to _their_ side) and have all the<BR>
>rollicking heavy-on-the-hardware a firefight-a-day type adventures.<BR>
 <BR>
>Within the constructs of a free-trader campaign, you need to think<BR>
>up the macguffins, those plot elements that keep your people off<BR>
>looking for someone/something/somewhere without necessarily<BR>
>breaking the law.  Like looking for the advanced sensors that<BR>
>_used_ to be on your ship, until the local Navy forces blew it up<BR>
>while stopping the pyrates who were stealing your ship from you.<BR>
<BR>
>;-)<BR>
<BR>
Hee, hee!  Like that's *all* I have up my sleeve in the AKUS<BR>
campaign.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce is right though, if you intend to run free trader game you<BR>
need to provide for more than just buying and selling.  Put the PCs<BR>
in unusual situations, send them across country to pick up a cargo,<BR>
give them enemies and competitors (don't have to be the same<BR>
either), have a relative of one of the PCs show up or disappear<BR>
under suspicious circumstances, find a way to split the party and<BR>
strand some of them on a wilderness planet while the rest are tied<BR>
up doing something or other, give them a clue to a "lost treasure",<BR>
and so on, and so on, and never let up. <g><BR>
                  <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:34:05 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Striker ROF's (was Re: FS TL10 Light Field PG)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
>Subject: FS TL10 Light Field Plasma Gun - the A-sharp<BR>
...<BR>
>10 MW input/2 MW output Plasma gun ; 100 kg, KCr 40<BR>
>1500 MWs-1 batteries (5 phases fire) ; 500 kg, KCr 26.25<BR>
<BR>
  There's a couple of broad questions here; why do the design sequences<BR>
saddle energy weapons like the above - which doesn't have any sort of<BR>
auto-fire bonus - with a continuous energy input requirement (150 sec =<BR>
5 turns) when a large CPR/MD cannon would get the same hit numbers and<BR>
multiple hit rules coverage from a handful of rounds per fire phase or<BR>
even turn?<BR>
<BR>
  And that assumes that the above weapons "shot" is a one-second blast,<BR>
which is a bit strange, to say the least (OK, say it's one second worth<BR>
of input stored for near-instant discharge...).<BR>
<BR>
  The recent FS nostlagia design for a TL 5 autocannon went through <BR>
800 rounds in ten phases, but got multiple targets in its danger<BR>
space and substantial hit bonuses from the deal - why wouldn't the<BR>
above weapon at 15 one-second-of-energy "rounds" per phase get an<BR>
autofire bonus?<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>TL5 30mm Hyper Vel Autocannon ; Gas operated, 1 barrel ; 0.21 t, KCr 12<BR>
><BR>
>[KEAP rounds ; 0.8 kg, Cr 3.2, Pen 11/9/7 (ammo is Cr 4 per kilo) ; range<BR>
>0.6/1.0/2.5 km<BR>
><BR>
>Max ROF : 80 (64 kg ammo per phase; gives +4/+3/+1)]<BR>
><BR>
>640 kg ammo ; 0.64 m3, 0.64t, KCr 2.5 (10 phases of fire)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:43:31 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know if there's an on-line index of Challenge magazine articles?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:55:02 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Roc: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Andrew Long <dyrnwynn@hotmail.com><BR>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 2:24:pm<BR>
Subject: Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On Sat, 9 Sep 2000 11:56:00 EDT Marc<CardSharks@aol.com> said<BR>
> >>>><BR>
> In a message dated 9/9/00 9:55:19 AM Central Daylight Time,<BR>
> Ray@shoggoth.freeserve.co.uk writes:<BR>
><BR>
> <<<BR>
>  I've always been curious about exactly why the Kinunir's Captain had an<BR>
>  Imperial Warrant in his possession and, as far as I know, its presence<BR>
>  onboard the ship has never been explained. Anyone have any ideas?<BR>
><BR>
>   >><BR>
> Norris requerted help for the upcoming Fifth Frontier War and the Emperor<BR>
> sent him one.<BR>
> <<<<<BR>
><BR>
> Now I'm confused. It says in 'Spinward Marches Campaign', pages 11 & 16 --<BR>
><BR>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> (page 11)<BR>
> Personalities<BR>
> .<BR>
> The Duke of Regina<BR>
> .<BR>
> Norris appealed directly to the Emperor for command of the Imperial forces<BR>
> in the Marches, believing that he, the Duke, could best command the<BR>
response<BR>
> to a Zhodani attack. Although the Emperor responded by issuing a warrant<BR>
> which put Norris in command, it was lost en route; due to the distances<BR>
and<BR>
> transit times involved, the very existence of the document remained<BR>
unknown.<BR>
> ..<BR>
> (page 16)<BR>
> Norris, with some slight evidence that his warrant from the Emperor was on<BR>
> Algine (aboard a wrecked cruiser down on the planet), led a secret<BR>
> expedition to that interdicted world to recover the document. The quandary<BR>
> that faced Norris was that he was prohibited from going to the interdicted<BR>
> world of Algine without the express permission of the Emperor. The<BR>
warrant,<BR>
> if it was there, would be permission to go there; if it wasn't there, he<BR>
> risked his career.<BR>
><BR>
> Returning with the warrant...<BR>
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<BR>
><BR>
> OK, the first paragraph isn't very controversial, although the implication<BR>
> is that the warrant was specifically for command of the Imperial Forces in<BR>
> the Marches, rather than a generic 'Get out of Jail Free' card (it's been<BR>
a<BR>
> while since I've seen Kinunir - how explicit is the description of the<BR>
> Warrant?) Also, my impression was that the events in Kinunir took place<BR>
some<BR>
> time before the war - Norris (or Dilgaadin) would have to have been<BR>
> EXTREMELY prescient to have requested the warrant that far in advance, and<BR>
> Strephon similarly trusting in one of his (minor) nobles...<BR>
><BR>
> However, the second paragraph puts the boot in. The warrant is said to be<BR>
ON<BR>
> Algine, in a WRECKED cruiser. Algine is not Shionthy, the Kinunir wasn't<BR>
> wrecked. So we have TWO Imperial warrants just floating about in the<BR>
> Marches. This argues that someone is less than careful with such important<BR>
> documents...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Perhaps what it doesn't say is; Norris, with some slight evidence that his<BR>
warrant from the Emperor was on Algine (aboard a wrecked cruiser down on the<BR>
planet), led a secret expedition to that interdicted world to recover the<BR>
document... but upon arrival, had found that they were miss informed and had<BR>
to covertly leave that place to seek the whereabouts of the real vessel and<BR>
the warrant thereupon...<BR>
<BR>
He only had "slight evidence," not actual evidence, and there is nothing to<BR>
say he didn't have an advance party sneak down and report the document not<BR>
there.  Doesn't even say one way or the other that he went dirtside looking<BR>
for it?  perhaps that's why it took so long for his return, the document<BR>
wasn't where he thought it was and it could only be in one other place (or<BR>
several if you like)?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:07:18 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Educational toys<BR>
<BR>
Thanks Jens, my kids collect these things out of those egg-things inside<BR>
delicious Cadbury dairy milk chocolate "Yowies" (a Yowie being the Oz<BR>
equivalent to a Yeti or Bigfoot) and assembling them... I'll have to point<BR>
them towards this site now.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
To: TML <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 3:39:pm<BR>
Subject: OT: Educational toys<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Some company makes toys of prehistoric animals. They are on display on<BR>
> the following URL:<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.yowiepower.com/lostkingdoms/<BR>
><BR>
> Look at toy number 20 in particular...  ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> (I got the link from the Daily Illuminator)<BR>
><BR>
> * Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
> | jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
> | ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
> * http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:10:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Measures<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 9/11/00 5:55 PM, phelpsd@gate.net issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
>> I believe that it is a unit of length, equal to about 2 feet. Its origin is<BR>
>> from the traditional length of the leather ropes used to control the horses<BR>
>> ridden by the early Mongol horsemen, whence the term "rein arshine."<BR>
>> <BR>
> I was told that it was the length of an infantryman's pace in the Russian<BR>
> army and dates to before the revolution.<BR>
<BR>
You might be right, I believe the above was typed in jest. I think that<BR>
"rein arshine" = "rain or shine".<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:17:53 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:58:52 -0700<BR>
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
> Subject: Re: TML Landgrab - Anyone got data on Jae Tellona?<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh good, there's another one like me out there...go ahead and filk...you<BR>
> know you can't resist it. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Well, there go the terms of my parole.  Brace yourselves, people.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  "Jae Tellona"<BR>
  (To the tune of "My Sharona" by The Knack)<BR>
<BR>
  Dropping out of jumpspace now, jumpspace now<BR>
  Setting up a course into Jae Tellona<BR>
  Hoping that the cops allow, they'll allow<BR>
  Us to skip inspection at Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
     Running contraband, lend a hand to the Ine Givar<BR>
     Wouldn't take the risk if it were any other star<BR>
     But Jae, Jae Jae Jae Jae OOOH!  J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
  Gonna meet 'em in a bar, in a bar<BR>
  Somewhere near the downport on Jae Tellona<BR>
  Pulled this cargo plenty far, plenty far<BR>
  All the way from Arden to Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
     Don't look in the case, said the guy that we got it from<BR>
     Probed it anyway, what a lot of uranium<BR>
     For Jae, Jae Jae Jae Jae OOOH!  J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
  Understand it's not a grudge, not a grudge<BR>
  Nothing personal against Jae Tellona<BR>
  Only problem is that judge, stupid judge<BR>
  Ruling on our assets on Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
     Papers held in trust, it's a bust, want the title free<BR>
     Figure records here will be cleared by the EMP<BR>
     On Jae Tellona....J-J-J-Jae Tellona...<BR>
<BR>
  <BR>
(Oh, and, by the way, original poster (forget who), if you haven't yet<BR>
fled in terror:  There's a RICE Paper on Jae Tellona at<BR>
http://traveller.mu.org/archive/Rice_Papers/SM-2814-Jae.Tellona.txt)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:37:23 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:34:27 +0100, "Neil McGurk" <BR>
<nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Yorkshire is so large a county that even now with TV and radio there are<BR>
>still two dialects that at times are mutually incomprehensible.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the dirty secret is that ALL Yorkshiremen are <BR>
incomprehensible.  Neighbors just convince themselves that they understand <BR>
each other, or learn to read gestures and body language.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:56:21 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Aslan Pseudo-Personality <BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> By my thinking, to be strictly in keeping with Aslan gender <BR>
> based division<BR>
> of labor, the pseudo-personality should be female.   After all such a<BR>
> computer would generally be doing a preponderance of female <BR>
> tasks.   Does<BR>
> anyone agree?  Alternatively there could be two <BR>
> personalities, with the<BR>
> previously unknown male warrior personality suddenly <BR>
> asserting himself in<BR>
> "battle mode".  That would put the "cat" among the pigeoniods <BR>
> wouldn't it,<BR>
> ...just.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes indeed. The computer has been acting a bit funny lately...I suspect that<BR>
the strain of having to manage the engineering department is causing<BR>
internal file corruption. Of course...it's only _supposed_ to be a<BR>
personality simulation, but I rather suspect that it's making changes to one<BR>
of the backup computers to make it a female engineering server. Frankly, a<BR>
personality sim wouldn't feel the strain from being forced to do<BR>
dishonourable female jobs.<BR>
As far as 'battle mode' goes, you've forgotten that piloting is a male job.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:11:33 -0700<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
John Groth wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> "Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >From: TRiepe5898@aol.com<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >P.S.: This may be kind of straightforward for a first post, but it seemed<BR>
> > >like a place to start.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Straightforward _and_ on-topic?  Gentlesophonts, I move that we deem the<BR>
> > newbie essay requirement completed in Mr. Riepe's case.<BR>
><BR>
> Since Mr. Riepe's first post was not only straightforward and on-topic,<BR>
> but also an answer, rather than a question, I second the motion.<BR>
<BR>
Culinary? What wine do you serve with Droyne?<BR>
<BR>
Religious? Messianic cults of the Extents?<BR>
<BR>
Just a couple.... Or we could dredge up some of the classics.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
When Spring comes back with rustling shade,<BR>
And apple blossoms fills the air,<BR>
I have a rendezvous with Death,<BR>
When spring brings back blue days and fair.<BR>
 Legionnaire Alan Seeger, KIA the Somme.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:15:35 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Jae Tellona: A Song?<BR>
<BR>
> >> The title says it all. Any help gratefully welcome.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Well, for one thing, I can never read it without hearing it <BR>
> sung to the<BR>
> >tune of "My Sharona".  (Must...not...filk...)<BR>
> <BR>
> Ah, yes.  From the K'kree album "Get the G'naak."<BR>
<BR>
<--runs screaming from the building holding his nose<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:17:59 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Fun at TL 5 (OT)<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
> 	For all of the listees who served their countries, my <BR>
> feldmutz is<BR>
> off to you; and a heartfelt moment of silence for all the men <BR>
> and women on<BR>
> all sides who 80 years ago fought a 'war to end wars'...and <BR>
> to all those who<BR>
> have fought before and since.  Let us hope that though the battle they<BR>
> fought was in vain, that one day we may finally accomplish <BR>
> their goal.  In<BR>
> the words of H.G Wells:  "...lead soldiers leave behind no <BR>
> lead widows and<BR>
> lead orphans."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Seconded.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:18:23 -0700<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 9/11/00 10:17 PM, cberry@cinenet.net issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
> "Jae Tellona"<BR>
> (To the tune of "My Sharona" by The Knack)<BR>
<BR>
Hysterical, Hypercleats will love this.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:15:15 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Well, there go the terms of my parole.  Brace yourselves, people.<BR>
><BR>
>   "Jae Tellona"<BR>
>   (To the tune of "My Sharona" by The Knack)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
MAKE THE BAD MAN STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:09:18 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
I see you're of the 'If you can't say something nice' school. :)<BR>
<BR>
Mail problems?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: LB2NOLA@aol.com [mailto:LB2NOLA@aol.com]<BR>
> Sent: 12 September 2000 00:15<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
>  <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:12:01 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Measures<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> To add to the discussion there are several Arab units of arc <BR>
> based on finger<BR>
> and palm widths of the night sky obscured when the hand is <BR>
> held at arms<BR>
> length from the body.   I will look them up if anyone is <BR>
> interested.  As a<BR>
> tough one does anyone know what an arshine measures and upon <BR>
> what it is<BR>
> based.<BR>
<BR>
1 Line= 10 Points= 2.5400 (mm) Millimeters<BR>
1 Sazhen= 3 Arshine= 48 Vershoks= 840 Lines= 2.1336 (m) Meters<BR>
1 Verst= 500 Sazhens= 1.0668 (km) Kilometers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
1 Squired Arshine= 256 Squired Vershoks= 78,400 Squired Lines= 0.5058 (m2)<BR>
Squired Meter<BR>
1 Desiatina= 2,400 Squired Sazhens= 21,600 Squired Arshines= 10,925.4 (m2)<BR>
Squired Meters<BR>
1 Squired Verst= 250,000 Squired Sazhens= 1.1381 (km2) Squired Kilometers<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:14:12 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Culinary? What wine do you serve with Droyne?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
They're sorta chickeny-lizard looking. I'd suggest white wine with Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:28:57 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Measures<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > To add to the discussion there are several Arab units of arc <BR>
> > based on finger<BR>
> > and palm widths of the night sky obscured when the hand is <BR>
> > held at arms<BR>
> > length from the body.   I will look them up if anyone is <BR>
> > interested.  As a<BR>
> > tough one does anyone know what an arshine measures and upon <BR>
> > what it is<BR>
> > based.<BR>
> <BR>
> 1 Line= 10 Points= 2.5400 (mm) Millimeters<BR>
> 1 Sazhen= 3 Arshine= 48 Vershoks= 840 Lines= 2.1336 (m) Meters<BR>
> 1 Verst= 500 Sazhens= 1.0668 (km) Kilometers<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> 1 Squired Arshine= 256 Squired Vershoks= 78,400 Squired <BR>
> Lines= 0.5058 (m2)<BR>
> Squired Meter<BR>
> 1 Desiatina= 2,400 Squired Sazhens= 21,600 Squired Arshines= <BR>
> 10,925.4 (m2)<BR>
> Squired Meters<BR>
> 1 Squired Verst= 250,000 Squired Sazhens= 1.1381 (km2) <BR>
> Squired Kilometers<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
BTW, I cut and pasted these conversuions without reading properly...I thing<BR>
'squired' should reade 'squared' :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 01:17:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: dating yourself...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>>> The title of this thread always cracks me up.  I know what it <BR>
>>>> means but it<BR>
>>>> always suggests something autoerotic.<BR>
>>>> <BR>
>>>> I just had to say that.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Personally, Kiri, I was picturing '101 things NOT to do <BR>
>>> with a time machine'<BR>
>>> :)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Read "The Man Who Folded Himself" by David Gerrold. It's pretty much<BR>
>> the definitive work on the subject.<BR>
><BR>
> Or Heinleins 'All you Zombies'...the time traveller is his own mother,<BR>
> father, bartender, the guy who gave him the time machine etc etc<BR>
<BR>
"All you Zombies is a short (and somewhat contrived) story. And he's<BR>
not the fellow how gave himself the time machine. He's the one who<BR>
recruited himself into the time patrol (or whatever it was called).<BR>
<BR>
"The Man Who Folded Himself" is a full length novel, and has all you<BR>
mentioned and more, and far better justified (as well as being a *lot*<BR>
more convoluted).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 01:57:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I know of at least three different lengths for an Ell. All used in 15th<BR>
> century England. I would say in 20th century England none are used. What a<BR>
> difference 500 years make.<BR>
<BR>
*Many* units of measure had different lengths in different places until<BR>
the 18th century or so, possibly later.<BR>
<BR>
> I am of a strange group in England. I was taught the metric system at<BR>
> school, but can work in inches, feet, yards and mile for distance but I can<BR>
> not tell you how many ounces are in a pound.<BR>
<BR>
I know metric, and did enough work with it at school that I have a<BR>
"feel" for kilos as well as pounds. But I still tend to think in<BR>
"english" units for a lot of everyday stuff.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:34:55 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
On 12 Sep 2000, at 1:57, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I know of at least three different lengths for an Ell. All used in 15th<BR>
> > century England. I would say in 20th century England none are used. What a<BR>
> > difference 500 years make.<BR>
> <BR>
> *Many* units of measure had different lengths in different places until<BR>
> the 18th century or so, possibly later.<BR>
> <BR>
> > I am of a strange group in England. I was taught the metric system at<BR>
> > school, but can work in inches, feet, yards and mile for distance but I can<BR>
> > not tell you how many ounces are in a pound.<BR>
> <BR>
> I know metric, and did enough work with it at school that I have a<BR>
> "feel" for kilos as well as pounds. But I still tend to think in<BR>
> "english" units for a lot of everyday stuff.<BR>
<BR>
One effect of going to metric over here is that a lot of people my age use a <BR>
mixture of units. Driving distances are in kilometres, but fuel consumption is <BR>
often still in miles per gallon (if only becasue the offical L/100km is so <BR>
dumb). Likewise it is common to give people's heights in feet and inches, but <BR>
weights in kilogrammes.<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:27:09 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: High Guard Shipyard v1.02 released<BR>
<BR>
Another bug fix (some minor problems with pulse lasers) and adds marines <BR>
to Book 2 crews. Can be found at<BR>
<BR>
  http://www.downport.com/amv/hgs/hgs.html<BR>
<BR>
Hopefully this is all the bugs (now theres a bold statement)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:29:04 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
> Sent: 12 September 2000 00:57<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
><BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Neil McGurk <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2000 9:27 PM<BR>
> Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
><BR>
> > Yorkshire is God's own county. I've got too agree about<BR>
> the 'Toddle Pip'<BR>
> > comment. Bluff, Common Northerners together against<BR>
> Shandy Drinking<BR>
> > Southerners.<BR>
> ><BR>
> I feel as a Londoner that I must answer this challange in<BR>
> my native idiom.<BR>
><BR>
> 'Bollocks' :)<BR>
><BR>
> Actually as a Londoner I get really agreived at the way I'm<BR>
> constantly lumped<BR>
> together with people from the Home Counties.<BR>
><BR>
But, you see Ben, that's because everyone south of Manchester are just<BR>
southern woosies. And as for those easterners living in Yorkshire,<BR>
well I suppose they can't help being second best to us in God's own<BR>
county (Lancashire, of course).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:42:28 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longish)<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, there are basically three types of 'bad news' for my<BR>
fly-by-night PCs. First and worst there's the Imperium itself, but it<BR>
only cares if you mess about with a starport (such as running from<BR>
fees or taxes), skip with a ship and run a duff registry, or engage in<BR>
the dreaded pir**cy. Second, there's the Megacorps, who only care if<BR>
you interfere with their profits such as by skipping with a ship,<BR>
stealing dosh, data, or other goodies, or otherwise intruding on their<BR>
commercial ventures. Thirdly and least of all, there's the puny<BR>
planetary governments who may object to all kinds of things depending<BR>
on what their particular philosophy of love, life, or profit may be.<BR>
<BR>
The third, you can escape by getting to the starport or even out into<BR>
space - but you need to watch out for systems that operate their own<BR>
systems police ships. The second is harder, but you can avoid them by<BR>
keeping a low profile or operating in areas where they are a minor<BR>
concern (or, my preferred option, by getting a bigger firm to cover<BR>
for you). The first - oops, but you are big trouble. Not only do you<BR>
have the Imperium, the aristocracy, the military forces, the Imperial<BR>
police and affiliate forces and so on after you, but you also have<BR>
Zhunatsu Industries - the biggest of the MegaCorps, of course - and<BR>
all the crawling little planetary leaders who want to look good for<BR>
the big bad Imperium to go after you.<BR>
<BR>
If you make it clear to your players just how much trouble they _can_<BR>
get into and the consequences of doing it, then any mess they make is<BR>
up to them to deal with. Hell, they'll all be dead by the time Virus<BR>
hits anyway (IMTU...).<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> Jones, Dean<BR>
> Sent: 11 September 2000 17:22<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'<BR>
> Subject: RE: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
> (longish)<BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
> > For the most part, interesting activities tend to also be<BR>
> > somewhat illegal.<BR>
><BR>
> Ddepends on which planet you're on. Remember that in the<BR>
> Traveller universe,<BR>
> member planet usually have independant governments...the<BR>
> Imperium as a whole<BR>
> is only really interested in interstellar trade.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3030<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3031</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 12 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3031<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longis h)<BR>
Searching for an old post to V-Net<BR>
Re: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
RE: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
RE: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
RE: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
HIWG CD<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
Re: Jae Tellona: A Song?<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
RE: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longish)<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:03:05 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longis h)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> If you make it clear to your players just how much trouble they _can_<BR>
> get into and the consequences of doing it, then any mess they make is<BR>
> up to them to deal with. Hell, they'll all be dead by the time Virus<BR>
> hits anyway (IMTU...).<BR>
<BR>
Why, are you running a Milieu 0 campaign, or are you a Killer GM? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:02:41 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Freeman <skeptack@antisocial.com><BR>
Subject: Searching for an old post to V-Net<BR>
<BR>
Doing a vanity search today, I came across this:<BR>
<BR>
"In 1994, Jeff Freeman posted to FidoNet or perhaps V-Net [note: it was<BR>
V-Net] a set of rules for resolving starship combat.  They were simple,<BR>
elegant, and had an excellent ratio of realism to complexity.  Inspired by<BR>
them, I made an adapted set of rules for smaller fighter craft, which<BR>
largely mirrored his rules.  What's presented here is mostly the same<BR>
document as I wrote in 1994, though I've done some editing to correct the<BR>
more egregious examples of bad writing and<BR>
unclarity.  I can't find Jeff Freeman or the original starship combat<BR>
system this is based on, so if anyone knows where to find either, please<BR>
let me know."<BR>
<BR>
I'm Jeff Freeman, but I no longer have those rules.  I've actually been<BR>
looking for them myself.  They were based on CT starship combat rules more<BR>
or less, essentially just replacing the "keep track of what has been<BR>
damaged and by how much" with check-boxes.  I'm wondering if there's any<BR>
chance a real old traveller player might have been hanging out on V-Net at<BR>
the time, and going for the extreme long-shot - did anyone, anywhere, save<BR>
these rules?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://home.swbell.net/skeptack/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:37:39 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/12/00 6:54:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
>  Subject:     <BR>
>  <BR>
>  Does anyone know if there's an on-line index of Challenge magazine <BR>
articles?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
www.aol.com\kagekiha\traveller<BR>
<BR>
    It has indexes (and some articles) to JTAS, Challenge, and a couple of <BR>
others.<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:45:52 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
<BR>
Sorry Bryan, I got a 'Page not found' message<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Kagehira@aol.com [mailto:Kagehira@aol.com]<BR>
> Sent: 12 September 2000 16:38<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 9/12/00 6:54:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
> >  Subject:     <BR>
> >  <BR>
> >  Does anyone know if there's an on-line index of Challenge magazine <BR>
> articles?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> www.aol.com\kagekiha\traveller<BR>
> <BR>
>     It has indexes (and some articles) to JTAS, Challenge, <BR>
> and a couple of <BR>
> others.<BR>
> <BR>
> Bryan<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:47:15 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
<BR>
...and yes, I tried www.aol.com\kagehira\traveller<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Kagehira@aol.com [mailto:Kagehira@aol.com]<BR>
> Sent: 12 September 2000 16:38<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 9/12/00 6:54:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
> >  Subject:     <BR>
> >  <BR>
> >  Does anyone know if there's an on-line index of Challenge magazine <BR>
> articles?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> www.aol.com\kagekiha\traveller<BR>
> <BR>
>     It has indexes (and some articles) to JTAS, Challenge, <BR>
> and a couple of <BR>
> others.<BR>
> <BR>
> Bryan<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:00:23 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:43:13 +1000<BR>
>From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>Why was this invisibility required? <BR>
>	a -  hiding from predators? <BR>
>	b -  hiding from other hostile tribes?<BR>
<BR>
c - hiding from Grandfather and his offspring...<BR>
<BR>
I somehow think that the average Droyne's reaction to Yaskoydray would<BR>
be similar to the average human's reaction to Ditzie...<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:12:05 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk <BR>
> [mailto:stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk]<BR>
> Sent: 12 September 2000 17:00<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:43:13 +1000<BR>
> >From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
> <BR>
> >Why was this invisibility required? <BR>
> >	a -  hiding from predators? <BR>
> >	b -  hiding from other hostile tribes?<BR>
> <BR>
> c - hiding from Grandfather and his offspring...<BR>
> <BR>
> I somehow think that the average Droyne's reaction to Yaskoydray would<BR>
> be similar to the average human's reaction to Ditzie...<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
'Oh, how cute..arrgh! My Face!' ?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:24:36 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca [mailto:shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca]<BR>
> Sent: 12 September 2000 05:44<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Challenge magazine index?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Does anyone know if there's an on-line index of Challenge <BR>
> magazine articles?<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure you'll find what you need online, but in the near future you'll<BR>
be able to get hold of The Traveller Periodical Bibliography from BITS,<BR>
which has comprehensive indices for JTAS, Challenge, Traveller Digest,<BR>
Megatraveller Journal (IIRC), and The Traveller Chronicle. I believe the<BR>
index only covers the Traveller content of Challenge, not all the other<BR>
systems...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:32:09 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: HIWG CD<BR>
<BR>
    Several notes.<BR>
<BR>
    This version is going to be somewhat of a commemorative copy to Andrew <BR>
Keith as it will include a copy of his Marischal material (and maybe some <BR>
other material, not entirely determined yet, but at least a copy of Paul's <BR>
web site and I think I have a copy of Keith's also).<BR>
<BR>
    Also the CD has about reached the 650 meg limit and I need to start <BR>
considering options on what to do next.<BR>
<BR>
    I can start zipping most of the material up, but I need to make sure what <BR>
might be the best way to do this for both Unix, MAC and IBM users (some of <BR>
the material is already zipped). And offhand I prefer not to do this as it <BR>
makes it harder to access the material (although it would tell me what I've <BR>
gone through and organized).<BR>
<BR>
    Next option would be breaking it up over two CD's. A somewhat preferred <BR>
method especially as I get the feeling I could easily get another 300 meg of <BR>
material over the next year if I gave half an effort (I could do it now if I <BR>
had a scanner). The drawback here is additional time and cost to do them.<BR>
<BR>
    Third option. Go with DVD. Not likely yet, cost is to high and I don't <BR>
think enough people have DVD drives yet.<BR>
<BR>
    Any thoughts on a fourth option?<BR>
<BR>
Bryan (who's going to be wisher seriously for a new computer real soon now <BR>
because of that among other things).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:17:45 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Culinary? What wine do you serve with Droyne?<BR>
><BR>
> They're sorta chickeny-lizard looking. I'd suggest white wine with<BR>
Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
And, of course, they taste like.....chicken. So I'd go with a medium white.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:19:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
> I know metric, and did enough work with it at school that I have a<BR>
> "feel" for kilos as well as pounds. But I still tend to think in<BR>
> "english" units for a lot of everyday stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial units, surely? In England we use the metric system.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:34:12 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Culinary? What wine do you serve with Droyne?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>They're sorta chickeny-lizard looking. I'd suggest white wine with Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
	Yes...I'd recommend a nice Gewurtztraminer, as it is rich and<BR>
full-bodied with strong spicey notes that will compliment the garlic that<BR>
must be used to make the otherwise bland flesh palatable.   If you are<BR>
feeling particularly daring, and have similarly adventuresome guests, you<BR>
might try grilling it with Greek spices and serving it with feta cheese,<BR>
roasted onions, and a nice, fluffy rice pilaf with an imported Retsina wine.<BR>
An excellent combination.  Retsina is said to be a bit of an acquired taste,<BR>
but I heartily suggest taking the time to acquire it; it more than rewards<BR>
the effort.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT (and now quite hungry)<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just pay me, they don't even _try_ to tell me what to<BR>
think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:37:37 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> >From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
> >Subject: RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >> Culinary? What wine do you serve with Droyne?<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >They're sorta chickeny-lizard looking. I'd suggest white <BR>
> wine with Droyne.<BR>
> <BR>
> 	Yes...I'd recommend a nice Gewurtztraminer, as it is rich and<BR>
> full-bodied with strong spicey notes that will compliment the <BR>
> garlic that<BR>
> must be used to make the otherwise bland flesh palatable.   If you are<BR>
> feeling particularly daring, and have similarly adventuresome <BR>
> guests, you<BR>
> might try grilling it with Greek spices and serving it with <BR>
> feta cheese,<BR>
> roasted onions, and a nice, fluffy rice pilaf with an <BR>
> imported Retsina wine.<BR>
> An excellent combination.  Retsina is said to be a bit of an <BR>
> acquired taste,<BR>
> but I heartily suggest taking the time to acquire it; it more <BR>
> than rewards<BR>
> the effort.<BR>
<BR>
I'd personally suggest a basil sauce and serve it over a light salad. The<BR>
advantage is that should you be unable to finish the leftovers make a<BR>
wonderful sandwich filler for lunch the next day. A South African Chardonnay<BR>
would be the tipple of choice to go with a Droyne-in-Basil salad.  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:34:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Culinary? What wine do you serve with Droyne?<BR>
><BR>
> They're sorta chickeny-lizard looking. I'd suggest white wine with Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
I'd suggest a vintage Thunderbird... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:35:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 12 Sep 2000, at 1:57, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>> I am of a strange group in England. I was taught the metric system<BR>
>>> at school, but can work in inches, feet, yards and mile for<BR>
>>> distance but I can not tell you how many ounces are in a pound.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I know metric, and did enough work with it at school that I have a<BR>
>> "feel" for kilos as well as pounds. But I still tend to think in<BR>
>> "english" units for a lot of everyday stuff.<BR>
><BR>
> One effect of going to metric over here is that a lot of people my<BR>
> age use a mixture of units. Driving distances are in kilometres, but<BR>
> fuel consumption is often still in miles per gallon (if only becasue<BR>
> the offical L/100km is so dumb).<BR>
<BR>
Actually, from an online conversation with some folks in Europe, that's<BR>
apparently the way they have always done it on the continent. <BR>
<BR>
> Likewise it is common to give people's heights in feet and inches,<BR>
> but weights in kilogrammes.<BR>
<BR>
Sort of like giving my age as 16.6 kilodays, or 1.4 gigaseconds. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Or 2 katuns, 6 tuns, 4 tuns, 8 uinal (2.6.4.8). <eg><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:56:54<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
At 10:14 AM 9/12/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Culinary? What wine do you serve with Droyne?<BR>
><BR>
>They're sorta chickeny-lizard looking. I'd suggest white wine with Droyne.<BR>
<BR>
Droyne, the other other *other* white meat?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:59:42<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
At 07:15 PM 9/12/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Well, there go the terms of my parole.  Brace yourselves, people.<BR>
<BR>
>MAKE THE BAD MAN STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!<BR>
<BR>
Ha!  I had to grow up around him, and my father, who was worse than Craig<BR>
and I combined!  We didn't eat unless we punned!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:01:48<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jae Tellona: A Song?<BR>
<BR>
At 02:08 PM 9/11/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Well, for one thing, I can never read it without hearing it sung to the<BR>
>>tune of "My Sharona".  (Must...not...filk...)<BR>
><BR>
>Ah, yes.  From the K'kree album "Get the G'naak."<BR>
<BR>
keyboard kill.  Actually, stuffed penguin kill, as Freezy and Kesey, the<BR>
desk penguins, caught the bulk of the soda.  Best not come to town John,<BR>
they're upset.<BR>
<BR>
Doug, off to wash the penguins...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  <BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Alle preisen den Pinguinherrscher!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:05:58<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
At 03:37 PM 9/12/2000 +1200, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> I actually like the feats, though I think the application is<BR>
>> unbalanced, very much in favor of human fighters, too.<BR>
>> And it will be a nightmare to deal with in high-level combat.<BR>
><BR>
>I don't think they are, because other classes have corresponding abilities.<BR>
<BR>
Exactly.  A medium level Barbarian will have his rage and dodging ability,<BR>
Rangers and Paladins will have some magic and other abilities (the ranger's<BR>
chosen foe is nasty), the fighter will have several feats that allow him to<BR>
define his fighting style, whether that be as a brusing crusher with Great<BR>
Cleave, or a finesse fighter with Weapon Focus and Mobility.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:06:22 -0700<BR>
From: "Jason Bernstein" <apoc527@u.washington.edu><BR>
Subject: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
<BR>
1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
<BR>
2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
<BR>
3) "Ultra-Tech" Melee weapons, such as vibroblades, monoswords, and to a<BR>
lesser extent force swords<BR>
<BR>
How many people have experimented with non-canon technology in their games,<BR>
and how has it affected (adversly or not) the whole "feel" of the Traveller<BR>
universe?  I have a personal penchant for shields, because I feel they are<BR>
the most logical way to protect a ship against micrometeorites, dust<BR>
particles, and radiation, even if they are completely sci-fi.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:22:26 GMT<BR>
From: "will richards" <willrichards@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
>> > Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".<BR>
>><BR>
>>Well we English say "gloster"<BR>
>><BR>
>In Canada we say Gloster too.<BR>
<BR>
Same in Virginia as well.<BR>
  So, no wonder the newscasters in Boston have a hard time with the name.... <BR>
all the locals are pronouncing it wrong! ;)<BR>
<BR>
  Any one out in California know how it's pronouced there?<BR>
And how about Austrailia or New Zealand? is there one there as well?<BR>
<BR>
and what about in the game? There really ought to be one in the game!<BR>
<BR>
Will<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:23:00 GMT<BR>
From: "will richards" <willrichards@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
>> > Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".<BR>
>><BR>
>>Well we English say "gloster"<BR>
>><BR>
>In Canada we say Gloster too.<BR>
<BR>
Same in Virginia as well.<BR>
  So, no wonder the newscasters in Boston have a hard time with the name.... <BR>
all the locals are pronouncing it wrong! ;)<BR>
<BR>
  Any one out in California know how it's pronouced there?<BR>
And how about Austrailia or New Zealand? is there one there as well?<BR>
<BR>
and what about in the game? There really ought to be one in the game!<BR>
<BR>
Will<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:52:04 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Douglas writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>How much do the players need to worry about the repercussions of their<BR>
>actions?<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	I have been known to vary the potential for repercussions depending<BR>
	on the players that I've got.  If the group is gun-happy and tends<BR>
	to go around blowing things up, etc., I try to increase the threat<BR>
	of legal intervention.  If the group is cautious and difficult to<BR>
	goad into getting involved, I tend to let the Imperium get pretty<BR>
	lax.  In general, I figure that different worlds are independant and<BR>
	will not take any action against you if you broke the local law on<BR>
	another world (though they might watch you carefully).  Imperial<BR>
	crimes are another story.<BR>
<BR>
	If players refuse to take any risks, one can try to get them into a<BR>
	squeeze: that cargo the party purchased on speculation turns out to<BR>
	include hidden contraband, and the local mob has manufactured<BR>
	"evidence" that the PC's are involved.  Will they cooperate and<BR>
	deliver the goods?  Try their luck with the local police (who just<BR>
	happen to have a vindictive rep)?  Steal the "evidence?"<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:31:01 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Culinary? What wine do you serve with Droyne?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > They're sorta chickeny-lizard looking. I'd suggest white wine with<BR>
> Droyne.<BR>
><BR>
> And, of course, they taste like.....chicken. So I'd go with a medium<BR>
white.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
That would naturally depend on the preparation.  Normally one would expect a<BR>
white with Droyne, but a heavy preparation, or one using a red wine stock<BR>
would naturally call for a more robust wine.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:30:22 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
will richards writes:<BR>
<BR>
>   Any one out in California know how it's pronouced there?<BR>
<BR>
'It' being glouchester, I assume.<BR>
<BR>
Depends who's pronouncing it.  There's a decent chance of it being pronounced phonetically based on the spelling ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:37:13<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
At 06:23 PM 9/12/2000 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>> > Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".<BR>
<BR>
>  Any one out in California know how it's pronouced there?<BR>
<BR>
"Dude."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:41:56 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> >> Culinary? What wine do you serve with Droyne?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > They're sorta chickeny-lizard looking. I'd suggest white wine with Droyne.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'd suggest a vintage Thunderbird... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Actually, since they're sorta dinosaur-like, a Cadillac is definitely in<BR>
order.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:46:45 -0700<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longish)<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 9/12/00 6:42 AM, mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk issued<BR>
forth:<BR>
<BR>
> stealing dosh<BR>
<BR>
What is "dosh"?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:48:42 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
>>And d - privacy in a society of telepaths. Perhaps to Droyne it's just "hey,<BR>
>>don't pry!" but to non-psionic beings it works much more thoroughly.<BR>
>Yeah, but this ability started _before_ Droyne were Droyne. Chirpers<BR>
>have it, so it's an evolutionarily derived trait, not a social one.<BR>
<BR>
	Since chirpers may also be social, it is possible for traits important<BR>
	to social interactions to have evolved.  Assuming that Psi traits can<BR>
	evolve like other traits.<BR>
<BR>
>Sneaking up on food is a far more likely answer, since it is something<BR>
>that they have to consiously do; were it _originally_ a defense against<BR>
>predators, they'd be invisible most of the time. As it is they're only<BR>
>ivisible when they _want_ to be.<BR>
<BR>
	Very good point, and this might be said to apply to social interactions<BR>
	as well.  On the other hand, one could try to argue that the Droyne<BR>
	evolved to activate the (perhaps energetically demanding) ability only<BR>
	when in situations when the risk of predation or mental pick-pocketing<BR>
	is relatively high.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:54:46 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>
> 'Oh, how cute..arrgh! My Face!' ?<BR>
<BR>
You, dear sir, are guilty of making me laugh out loud enough for the<BR>
20-people party in the communal to notice me...<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3031<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3032</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/12/00 2:34:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 12 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3032<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: HIWG CD<BR>
Re OT Date Systems<BR>
[TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Andy Akins<BR>
Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: HIWG CD<BR>
RE: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: HIWG CD<BR>
RE: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:59:15 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
David Summers writes:<BR>
>On the topic of being invisible all the time, one issue is<BR>
>the cost of invisibility.  For example, being intelligent<BR>
>is wonderful thing.  OTOH, it requires significant calories<BR>
>and an active metabolism.  The net result is that humans must<BR>
>eat all the time (compared to a crocodile that can eat once<BR>
>a month).<BR>
<BR>
	Yup.  A huge and active central nervous system such as we<BR>
	have requires a huge amount of energy to maintain.  Of<BR>
	course, the fact that a crocodile is "cold-blooded" is at<BR>
	least as important in allowing it to go so long without<BR>
	food.<BR>
<BR>
>In game terms invisibility doesn't require anything in game terms.<BR>
>How does that relate to longer term evolutionary pressures?<BR>
>Longer term increased energy needs won't really show up, so<BR>
>it isn't clear.  Also, are psionics present on any other species?<BR>
>Maybe some preditors have some mind shield that makes invisibility<BR>
>more uncertain?<BR>
<BR>
	Evolution may be expected to act on very subtle differences in<BR>
	efficiency.  If maintaining Psi invisibility is equivelent to<BR>
	walking in terms of energy use, this would be a _very_ strong<BR>
	selective pressure to be able to turn it off when not needed.<BR>
	It would be quite reasonable to imagine that this ability takes<BR>
	not enough energy to show up in game terms but plenty to<BR>
	constitute evolutionary pressure to keep it turned off.  Perhaps<BR>
	maintaining invisibility for long periods (days?) would tire the<BR>
	Droyne?<BR>
<BR>
	Unless Psi ability evolved only in the group that gave rise to<BR>
	Chirpers and Droyne, it would be reasonable to imagine that some<BR>
	native predators would have similar abilities and perhaps<BR>
	countermeasures.  Would being really, really dumb help?  Just a<BR>
	thought.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:21:46 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: HIWG CD<BR>
<BR>
At 12:32 12.09.00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>    Also the CD has about reached the 650 meg limit and I need to start<BR>
>considering options on what to do next.<BR>
You can go on to at least 705 MBs (with overburning those 80 min CDs). <BR>
After that, spit it into two CDs. A CD isnt that expensive anymore (50c) <BR>
so that would be a viable alternative.<BR>
I would vote against zipping everything up as it really hampers the <BR>
on-the-spot accessability.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>     Third option. Go with DVD. Not likely yet, cost is to high and I don't<BR>
>think enough people have DVD drives yet.<BR>
<BR>
Just right. DVD would be lovely, but... i dont have a drive in my PC yet.<BR>
<BR>
Oh yes, put me down for a copy of that new edition.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:49:25 +0100<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
<highly  'tongue in cheek'><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mark Preston wrote (in reply to various others)<BR>
<BR>
>But, you see Ben, that's because everyone south of Manchester are just<BR>
>southern woosies. <BR>
<BR>
Well said! And having spent the weekend down there, it just reaffirmed the<BR>
truth!<BR>
<BR>
>And as for those easterners living in Yorkshire,<BR>
>well I suppose they can't help being second best to us in God's own<BR>
>county (Lancashire, of course).<BR>
<BR>
You mean over in Norway? That's what lies over the Pennines, isn't it. My<BR>
dad used to scare me with tales of a legendary place called Yorkshire, where<BR>
all manner of demons ate babies and bonked sheep. They also drank foul<BR>
smelling horse urine, and ate roasted brain batter, (yorkie puds) and sucked <BR>
squashed dried testicles (pontefract cakes!). They also were totally incapable<BR>
of playing Rugby, being instead content dancing round maypoles and rogering <BR>
sheep!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Oh, aye, and they were all puffs!       ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Glad it was only a children's scary tale, and the nearest land mass on the other <BR>
side of the pennines is Norway. Thank the gods!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</highly  'tongue in cheek'><BR>
<BR>
(Oh, and I still say that Oxfords are baggy trousers. That's what they used to have <BR>
round here where I live. But each locality to it's own! -We have Chelsea Boots, and <BR>
Brogues, but not an inkling of Oxford Shoes, not here no way. Bolton Clogs maybe,<BR>
but not Oxford Shoes!)<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:47:29 +0100<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
<BR>
With a slight lean on current events in the UK, a post mostly Ob Trav...<BR>
<BR>
<Message begins><BR>
<BR>
[Newsflash]<BR>
Terra 021-1123<BR>
<BR>
The system was dragged to a standstill today, as blockades continued<BR>
into their third day. The protesters, angry at ever increasing prices for<BR>
refined fuel, continued their 'peaceful' protest surrounding the manifold<BR>
Liquid Hydrogen refineries, allowing no tanker traffic out all day, except<BR>
for a small convoy of supplies to emergency service installations.<BR>
<BR>
In a planet wide protest, with unity never before seen, people of all walks<BR>
of life protested the inflationary 'escalator' pricing policy of the imposed<BR>
government. Prices have seen  massive hikes of over 35 percent in the<BR>
last few years since the last government was voted in.<BR>
<BR>
A spokesman for the government, Tory Planb (MI)* said he was considering<BR>
sending in the marines to put the 'illegal protest' down once and for all!<BR>
<BR>
Starships and Small Vehicles alike are being grounded for lack of fuel,<BR>
crippling the economy, and causing thousands of staff to be laid off in<BR>
starports all over the planet, after 'panic buying' caused stockpiles to<BR>
be drained. <BR>
<BR>
Reports are appearing of entrepreneurial fuel vendors 'profiteering' by charging<BR>
upwards of 15KCr per tonne of LH2. This practice has been slammed by<BR>
the authorities as a callous and exploitative misuse of power.<BR>
<BR>
Further reports as they come in...<BR>
<BR>
<End of Message><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
*(from the original " I'm Tory Plan B"  - Tony Blair PM)<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:29:53 +0100<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
Mark Preston wrote (in reply to various others)<BR>
<BR>
>But, you see Ben, that's because everyone south of Manchester are just<BR>
>southern woosies. <BR>
<BR>
Well said! And having spent the weekend down there, it just reaffirmed the<BR>
truth!<BR>
<BR>
>And as for those easterners living in Yorkshire,<BR>
>well I suppose they can't help being second best to us in God's own<BR>
>county (Lancashire, of course).<BR>
<BR>
You mean over in Norway? That's what lies over the Pennines, isn't it. My<BR>
dad used to scare me with tales of a legendary place called Yorkshire, where<BR>
all manner of demons ate babies and bonked sheep. They also drank foul<BR>
smelling horse urine, and ate roasted brain batter, (yorkie puds) and sucked <BR>
squashed dried testicles (pontefract cakes!). They also were totally incapable<BR>
of playing Rugby, being instead content dancing round maypoles and rogering <BR>
sheep!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Oh, aye, and they were all puffs!       ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Glad it was only a children's scary tale, and the nearest land mass on the other <BR>
side of the pennines is Norway. Thank the gods!<BR>
<BR>
(Oh, and I still say that Oxfords are baggy trousers. That's what they used to have <BR>
round here where I live. But each locality to it's own! -We have Chelsea Boots, and <BR>
Brogues, but not an inkling of Oxford Shoes, not here no way. Bolton Clogs maybe,<BR>
but not Oxford Shoes!)<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:58:43 -0500<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: Andy Akins<BR>
<BR>
Andy,<BR>
<BR>
I need you to get in touch with me ASAP.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:24:35 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
><BR>
>Via electronic medium on 9/12/00 6:42 AM, mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk issued<BR>
>forth:<BR>
><BR>
>> stealing dosh<BR>
><BR>
>What is "dosh"?<BR>
<BR>
	Trav Trivia here:  I don't know if this was what was intended, but a<BR>
looooong time ago ('80 or '81), Martian Metals called the tops of the<BR>
cardboard backings to their blisterpacks of traveller miniatures (the part<BR>
that had the Traveller logo) 'doshes' - these could be collected and<BR>
redeemed for goodies.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT <BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- --<BR>
Disclaimer - don't blame them, they just pay me, they don't even try to tell<BR>
me what to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:07:09<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
At 08:49 PM 9/12/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
><highly  'tongue in cheek'><BR>
<BR>
>You mean over in Norway? That's what lies over the Pennines, isn't it. My<BR>
>dad used to scare me with tales of a legendary place called Yorkshire, where<BR>
>all manner of demons ate babies and bonked sheep.<BR>
<BR>
Ye Gods, sounds like what I, as a young Northern Californian, was told<BR>
about the blasted wasteland that is Southern California, where they<BR>
actually cheer for the Dodgers in *public*!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:37 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: HIWG CD<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <aa.a6b8823.26efb489@aol.com><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Go for multiple CD-ROMs... <BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:43:18 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
At 12:38 PM +1200 9/12/00, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
>  > Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".<BR>
><BR>
>Well we English say "gloster"<BR>
<BR>
Of course it depends on how "heavy" you get in the accent.  One<BR>
might claim that Worchester should be pronounced "Woostah" (the<BR>
Boston accent tends to stick vowels on the ends of things).<BR>
<BR>
I had an Englishman make snide remarks about how unoriginal<BR>
the place names in New England are (being mostly copies of<BR>
English place names).  Of course the irony was that the people<BR>
being unoriginal were, at the them, Englishmen....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:37:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
>From: "will richards" <willrichards@hotmail.com><BR>
<BR>
>  Any one out in California know how it's pronouced there?<BR>
<BR>
We don't have any quaint Latino-English names out here (not many, anyway).<BR>
Most place names are derived from Spanish and pronounced somewhat close to<BR>
the original (e.g., San Rafael = san ra-fell, with a in san like the a in<BR>
cat; but San Jose = san ho-zay, san like San Rafel, but Jose pretty close to<BR>
Spanish).  Anyway, we don't got no Gloucester (so far as I know).<BR>
<BR>
>and what about in the game? There really ought to be one in the game!<BR>
<BR>
Boughene is the linguistic Gloucester of the Spinward Marches.  I've heard<BR>
as many pronounciations as I've met players and referees.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:06:41 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
At 11:06 AM -0700 9/12/00, Jason Bernstein wrote:<BR>
>I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
>technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
><BR>
>1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
<BR>
Non-canon.  The only shields are black globes.  It would change<BR>
combat quite a bit.<BR>
<BR>
>2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
<BR>
They exist in Traveller, they are just big and have a nasty kick.<BR>
If you make them smaller and easier then you up the firepower a bit.<BR>
<BR>
>3) "Ultra-Tech" Melee weapons, such as vibroblades, monoswords, and to a<BR>
>lesser extent force swords<BR>
<BR>
Not a lot is said about melee weapons (in spite of marines with <BR>
cutlasses).  Something like vibroblades could introduced on<BR>
the idea that they exist, but just aren't worth a lot of mention.<BR>
They wouldn't be a big change<BR>
More cinematic swords are beyond that and would change things<BR>
significantly.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:06:41 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
At 11:06 AM -0700 9/12/00, Jason Bernstein wrote:<BR>
>I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
>technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
><BR>
>1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
<BR>
Non-canon.  The only shields are black globes.  It would change<BR>
combat quite a bit.<BR>
<BR>
>2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
<BR>
They exist in Traveller, they are just big and have a nasty kick.<BR>
If you make them smaller and easier then you up the firepower a bit.<BR>
<BR>
>3) "Ultra-Tech" Melee weapons, such as vibroblades, monoswords, and to a<BR>
>lesser extent force swords<BR>
<BR>
Not a lot is said about melee weapons (in spite of marines with <BR>
cutlasses).  Something like vibroblades could introduced on<BR>
the idea that they exist, but just aren't worth a lot of mention.<BR>
They wouldn't be a big change<BR>
More cinematic swords are beyond that and would change things<BR>
significantly.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:14:41 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
At 6:22 PM +0000 9/12/00, will richards wrote:<BR>
>>>  > Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>Well we English say "gloster"<BR>
>>><BR>
>>In Canada we say Gloster too.<BR>
><BR>
>Same in Virginia as well.<BR>
>  So, no wonder the newscasters in Boston have a hard time with the <BR>
>name.... all the locals are pronouncing it wrong! ;)<BR>
><BR>
>  Any one out in California know how it's pronouced there?<BR>
<BR>
It isn't.  All California names have "San" or "Santa" in front<BR>
of them  :-)<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:18:59 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>Ha!  I had to grow up around him, and my father, who was worse than Craig<BR>
>and I combined!  We didn't eat unless we punned!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Oh, my god, there are two of them.  Doug & Craig are bothers, that is<BR>
the 3rd of 7 signs that the world is ending.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:21:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason Bernstein <apoc527@u.washington.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
>technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
><BR>
>1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    White Globes.  Check out MegaTraveller for this, so it is still canon.<BR>
<BR>
>2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Workable.  Of course one can use Star War's style blasters here as well.<BR>
<BR>
>3) "Ultra-Tech" Melee weapons, such as vibroblades, monoswords, and to a<BR>
>lesser extent force swords<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Workable & reasonable.<BR>
<BR>
>How many people have experimented with non-canon technology in their games,<BR>
>and how has it affected (adversly or not) the whole "feel" of the Traveller<BR>
>universe?  I have a personal penchant for shields, because I feel they are<BR>
>the most logical way to protect a ship against micrometeorites, dust<BR>
>particles, and radiation, even if they are completely sci-fi.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I have, but then I am a heretic.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:21:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
From: Jason Bernstein <apoc527@u.washington.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
>technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
><BR>
>1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    White Globes.  Check out MegaTraveller for this, so it is still canon.<BR>
<BR>
>2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Workable.  Of course one can use Star War's style blasters here as well.<BR>
<BR>
>3) "Ultra-Tech" Melee weapons, such as vibroblades, monoswords, and to a<BR>
>lesser extent force swords<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Workable & reasonable.<BR>
<BR>
>How many people have experimented with non-canon technology in their games,<BR>
>and how has it affected (adversly or not) the whole "feel" of the Traveller<BR>
>universe?  I have a personal penchant for shields, because I feel they are<BR>
>the most logical way to protect a ship against micrometeorites, dust<BR>
>particles, and radiation, even if they are completely sci-fi.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I have, but then I am a heretic.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:20:04 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: HIWG CD<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <Kagehira@aol.com><BR>
>     Any thoughts on a fourth option?<BR>
<BR>
*weg*  Upload it to the HIWG website... no distribution headaches, no CDs to<BR>
burn, no 650 meg limit to worry about.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, BTW, did I mention that Downport.com has just moved to its own server on<BR>
an OC-3 equipped host?  I'll make a more formal announcement about our new<BR>
features after a short testing period, but I was banging on it last night<BR>
and couldn't contain my glee any longer :-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:19:46 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
At 6:22 PM +0000 9/12/00, will richards wrote:<BR>
>>>  > Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>Well we English say "gloster"<BR>
>>><BR>
>>In Canada we say Gloster too.<BR>
><BR>
>Same in Virginia as well.<BR>
>  So, no wonder the newscasters in Boston have a hard time with the <BR>
>name.... all the locals are pronouncing it wrong! ;)<BR>
><BR>
>  Any one out in California know how it's pronouced there?<BR>
<BR>
It isn't.  All California names have "San" or "Santa" in front<BR>
of them  :-)<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:21:36 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:06:22 -0700<BR>
> From: "Jason Bernstein" <apoc527@u.washington.edu><BR>
> <BR>
> I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
> technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
> <BR>
> 1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
> <BR>
> 2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
> <BR>
> 3) "Ultra-Tech" Melee weapons, such as vibroblades, monoswords, and to a<BR>
> lesser extent force swords<BR>
<BR>
None of these are particularly disruptive per se, especially if you make<BR>
them hideously expensive, unreliable, uncommon, or preferably all three<BR>
plus a few more disadvantages.  As usual, the real problem is the Law of<BR>
Unintended Uses.  That is, "Any powerful item introduced into a role<BR>
playing game will be used by the players in ways unanticipated by the GM." <BR>
Depending on the item and the players, these unanticipated uses may merely<BR>
wreck a few well-crafted scenarios; equally, they could create a chain of<BR>
logical inferences that destroys the underpinnings and internal<BR>
consistency of the entire game world. <BR>
<BR>
> How many people have experimented with non-canon technology in their games,<BR>
> and how has it affected (adversly or not) the whole "feel" of the Traveller<BR>
> universe?  I have a personal penchant for shields, because I feel they are<BR>
> the most logical way to protect a ship against micrometeorites, dust<BR>
> particles, and radiation, even if they are completely sci-fi.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but the trouble is that once you introduce them, the players will<BR>
naturally try to exploit them.  Need to guard a building against raiders?<BR>
Put a shield around it.  Want to land with an unstreamlined ship?  Make<BR>
a shield shaped like an airfoil.  Want to patch that hole leak without any<BR>
effort?  Drop a shield wall across it.  Then you start wondering why only<BR>
the PCs are thinking of these obvious ideas.  At that point you have to<BR>
either start special-casing your way into absurdity ("Oh, it, um, won't<BR>
work in an atmosphere.  And it can't be shaped -- no, but it also conforms<BR>
to your hull.  No, it's a sphere.  Wait, depends on surface area.  Um.<BR>
And it's not air-tight...no, I *don't* know how it stops kinetic weapons,<BR>
then...aaargh..."), or start redesigning the Traveller background to match<BR>
the new tech assumptions.  Suddenly at high tech, hatches and iris valves<BR>
give way to shield doors, bank vaults become shielded rooms, and so forth.<BR>
You'll constantly be dealing with unexpected ways shields can be used, if<BR>
your players are halfway creative.<BR>
<BR>
That's why, if you go outside canon tech, you have to either (a) invest a<BR>
huge amount of time in examining the tech and the background, or (b) make<BR>
the tech inconvenient enough (through rarity, cost, reliability, or<BR>
whatever) to not be a factor in 'normal' civilization.  Ancient artifacts<BR>
follow the latter pattern; they are incredibly rare, dangerous to use<BR>
because we don't understand them, and tend to get taken away from PCs by<BR>
the first more powerful organization that notices they're floating around.<BR>
As such, their campaign impact can be controlled.<BR>
<BR>
My CR 0.02, in any case.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:29:09 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
From: David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
<BR>
>>1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
><BR>
>Non-canon.  The only shields are black globes.  It would change<BR>
>combat quite a bit.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    What about the White Glove from Mega-Traveller?  I would have to say<BR>
that it is canon.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:29:09 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
From: David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
<BR>
>>1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
><BR>
>Non-canon.  The only shields are black globes.  It would change<BR>
>combat quite a bit.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    What about the White Glove from Mega-Traveller?  I would have to say<BR>
that it is canon.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3032<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3033</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 12 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3033<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Law of Unintended Uses<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longish)<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: FS TL10 plasma field gun<BR>
Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
pockets full of sixth sense, pockets full of psi<BR>
pockets full of sixth sense, pockets full of psi<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
[OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Full release to beta<BR>
Re: HIWG CD<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:37:44 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Law of Unintended Uses<BR>
<BR>
Oh come on - that's just a subset of the "Law of Players screwing up a GM's<BR>
plans"<BR>
<BR>
(the GM's teeth gnash behind the screen as the players traipse off to Regina<BR>
on a vacation while the DoomBomb ticks away on Effate.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----<BR>
As usual, the real problem is the Law of Unintended Uses.  That is, "Any<BR>
powerful item introduced into a role playing game will be used by the<BR>
players in ways unanticipated by the GM."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:44:23 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jason Bernstein <apoc527@u.washington.edu><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>  >I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
>  >technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  >1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>     White Globes.  Check out MegaTraveller for this, so it is still canon.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I forgot about white globes.  They are really rare though...<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:47:52 -0500<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longish)<BR>
<BR>
    On a related note, there's the latest JTAS poll: "How law-abiding are the<BR>
PCs in your campaign?"<BR>
<BR>
    Without giving away ALL the details, I think I'd have switched the<BR>
relative positions of the "They are not above petty larceny" and the "They are<BR>
about average" answers...(g)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:01:08 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
From: David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
<BR>
>>  >I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
>>  >technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
>>  >1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
>>     White Globes.  Check out MegaTraveller for this, so it is still<BR>
canon.<BR>
>I forgot about white globes.  They are really rare though...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    But, still canon & useable.  *weg*<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:57:11 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Jason Bernstein" <apoc527@u.washington.edu><BR>
> Subject: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
> 2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
The Barbies Own Battledress line from Famile Spofulam Toys and Games has a<BR>
Barbies' Own Particle Carbine. :Puts out 200 joules to about a meter in a<BR>
standard atmosphere <technically illegal as it lacks a beam pointer, but<BR>
what the heck>.<BR>
<BR>
> 3) "Ultra-Tech" Melee weapons, such as vibroblades, monoswords, and to a<BR>
> lesser extent force swords<BR>
<BR>
<the tri-D flicks onto "Homebrewing with Ditzie", from Famile Spofulam<BR>
Entertainment - 'Wholesome Family Shows from a Wholesome Family Company'><BR>
<BR>
This weeks home-viewer question is about force swords.<BR>
<BR>
If we want to homebrew this, we need to make several modifications to some<BR>
Famile Spofulam products. Before doing this, you must check the legality of<BR>
the proposed finished product with your local legal authorities. Famile<BR>
Spofulam will vigoursly defend ourselves against primary, secondary and<BR>
tertiary liability for unauthorised constructions.<BR>
<BR>
First, buy about two dozen Barbies Own Battledress (tm) Particle Carbines.<BR>
<BR>
Carefully lever the firing mechanism away from the accumulator pack on each<BR>
of them, until you have twelve firing mechanisms (it is expected mistakes<BR>
will be made, which is why you have twelve of them).<BR>
<BR>
Next, you need the accumulator bank from a Famile Spofulam Weasel Gun (tm)<BR>
(*) - the accumulator from the Particle Carbines tends to overheat from the<BR>
stresses we are going to put on it.<BR>
<BR>
Get a high-amperage multiplexer, and connect the six firing mechanisms to<BR>
the accumulator from the Weasel Gun (tm).<BR>
<BR>
Next carefully solder the twelve firing mechanisms together, leaving the<BR>
connector that originally connected the Particle Carbine's firing button to<BR>
the firing mechanism on the outside. You may want to solder on some sort of<BR>
handle on at this point.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, connect a small master timing unit to the twelve firing connectors,<BR>
so that when the timing unit is activiated, they fire in sequence so that a<BR>
complete rotation is achieved every 2.5 seconds (the maximum RoF of a single<BR>
Particle Carbine). This will allow a facsimile of a continous beam.<BR>
<BR>
You probably want a largish battery pack for this baby - the two weasel<BR>
units wont be able to keep enough current flowing for more than about 20<BR>
seconds. We have successfully used the battery pack from a variety of gauss<BR>
rifles and laser carbines (make sure your multiplexer has standard<BR>
connectors).<BR>
<BR>
Have fun with your homebrewing.<BR>
<BR>
Next week, Ditzie will be back as the regular presenter, showing how to<BR>
build a TL9 anti-vehicle missile, to go with the HEAP warhead we built last<BR>
week, out of materials found in the average TL7-9 home with<BR>
mechanically-driven air circulation and a grav bed.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
Personal Assistant<BR>
Executive Vice-President Ditzammer Spofulam<BR>
High Energy Solutions<BR>
Famile Spofulam<BR>
<BR>
(*) The Weasel Gun is produced by Famile Spofulum under appropriate licences<BR>
from the Sayat Concordance's SAY-BOOM.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 15:18:27 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
>Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>>In game terms invisibility doesn't require anything in game terms.<BR>
>>How does that relate to longer term evolutionary pressures?<BR>
>>Longer term increased energy needs won't really show up, so<BR>
>>it isn't clear.  Also, are psionics present on any other species?<BR>
>>Maybe some preditors have some mind shield that makes invisibility<BR>
>>more uncertain?<BR>
><BR>
>	Evolution may be expected to act on very subtle differences in<BR>
>	efficiency.  If maintaining Psi invisibility is equivelent to<BR>
>	walking in terms of energy use, this would be a _very_ strong<BR>
>	selective pressure to be able to turn it off when not needed.<BR>
>	It would be quite reasonable to imagine that this ability takes<BR>
>	not enough energy to show up in game terms but plenty to<BR>
>	constitute evolutionary pressure to keep it turned off.  <BR>
<BR>
	Larry Niven actually brought this up in _A Gift From Earth_ with the<BR>
psionic ability "Plateau eyes" (basically Droyne Invisibility).  The<BR>
protagonist who had this ability (unbeknownst to him) had this terrible<BR>
problem since puberty that whenever he started talking to a woman and things<BR>
were starting to go really well and it began to get...well...interesting,<BR>
she would suddenly lose interest in him and wander away as if he had never<BR>
been there.  Played hell with his sex life.  If the ability is triggered by<BR>
stress, then the beings that have it tend not to reproduce unless they<BR>
figure out how to either shut it off, or to take advantage of it.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think, they don't even bother trying to<BR>
tell me _what_ to think<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:34:05 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
> >I forgot about white globes.  They are really rare though...<BR>
>     But, still canon & useable.  *weg*<BR>
<BR>
Well, now you can certainly use them in your games without any fear of<BR>
Marc's elite Canon-Enforcement Commandos breaking your door down and<BR>
shooting you. That's not to say the game you'll be playing will resemble<BR>
Traveller much though.<BR>
<BR>
The most basic White Globe starts at Tech Level 20, according to My<BR>
Favourite Book (that's FFS, to non-gearheaded mortals).<BR>
<BR>
I'd say that falls within the category Craig was talking about, of items<BR>
which are okay so long as they're rare, incompletely understood, and easy<BR>
to remove from the group's possession. One White Globe in a campaign;<BR>
great. If everybody has them at TL-12 then the Traveller universe is going<BR>
to be *very* different from the one we know. (And there are going to be<BR>
players asking questions like 'what happens if we turn on the globe and ram<BR>
them?' and expecting you to know.)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:41:28 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
<BR>
> This weeks home-viewer question is about force swords.<BR>
> First, buy about two dozen Barbies Own Battledress (tm) Particle<BR>
Carbines.<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
<BR>
There's also Antti Lahtinen's Laser Sword, which I've mentioned before but<BR>
I'm still very taken with.<BR>
<BR>
In essence, you have a laser pistol shaped like a tube, with a low power<BR>
laser rangefinder pointing along the beam axis. Swing it as if it were the<BR>
hilt of a sword, and when the rangefinder detects a solid object within a<BR>
metre (or whatever you set it to) it fires the laser on full auto until the<BR>
rangefinder doesn't detect a solid object any more. It's sort of like a<BR>
sword with a virtual (to re-use a vomitous buzzword) blade.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, you might as well just use a laser pistol.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:45:05 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Rodney Basler [mailto:rgb@odetics.com]<BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2000 8:18<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'<BR>
> Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
> 	Larry Niven actually brought this up in _A Gift From <BR>
> Earth_ with the<BR>
> psionic ability "Plateau eyes" (basically Droyne Invisibility).  The<BR>
> protagonist who had this ability (unbeknownst to him) had <BR>
> this terrible<BR>
> problem since puberty that whenever he started talking to a <BR>
> woman and things<BR>
> were starting to go really well and it began to <BR>
> get...well...interesting,<BR>
> she would suddenly lose interest in him and wander away as if <BR>
> he had never<BR>
> been there.  Played hell with his sex life.  If the ability <BR>
> is triggered by<BR>
> stress, then the beings that have it tend not to reproduce unless they<BR>
> figure out how to either shut it off, or to take advantage of it.<BR>
<BR>
I think I have that one... the only time I was able to pick up women was<BR>
when I was drunk...err tipsy....err..*very* relaxed. Any other time it<BR>
was as if I wasn't there!<BR>
<BR>
I wonder how people like me found partners before alcohol and other<BR>
'relaxing' drugs were invented?<BR>
<BR>
Does the spice that Aslan are so fond of make them more relaxed about<BR>
themselves. Picture a stoned aslan leaning on the shoulder of an equally<BR>
drunk human crying "I love you man! Your the best frind I've ever had!"<BR>
<BR>
Would acts committed while drunk/stoned free Aslan from the necessity of<BR>
Duelling? Would duelling with a drunk/stoned aslan be a dishonourable<BR>
act? <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Harry<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:03:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
From: Nick Bradbeer <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> >I forgot about white globes.  They are really rare though...<BR>
>>     But, still canon & useable.  *weg*<BR>
><BR>
>Well, now you can certainly use them in your games without any fear of<BR>
>Marc's elite Canon-Enforcement Commandos breaking your door down and<BR>
>shooting you. That's not to say the game you'll be playing will resemble<BR>
>Traveller much though.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Correct, Nick.  But, then again, my game is totally non-canon, as I am<BR>
using JG's materials in it, along with some rules (Pocket Empires, Imperial<BR>
Squadrons), and the TNE Backdrop without Virus, using the CT/MT Rules.<BR>
<BR>
>The most basic White Globe starts at Tech Level 20, according to My<BR>
>Favourite Book (that's FFS, to non-gearheaded mortals).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    In MT it is TL-19.<BR>
<BR>
>I'd say that falls within the category Craig was talking about, of items<BR>
>which are okay so long as they're rare, incompletely understood, and easy<BR>
>to remove from the group's possession. One White Globe in a campaign;<BR>
>great. If everybody has them at TL-12 then the Traveller universe is going<BR>
>to be *very* different from the one we know. (And there are going to be<BR>
>players asking questions like 'what happens if we turn on the globe and ram<BR>
>them?' and expecting you to know.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    "You blow up.", is what I tell them.  Remember the Black & White Globe<BR>
take in energy & shunt it to the Jump-Drive Capacitors, when too much energy<BR>
is sent to them, they go boom.<BR>
    Also as a White Globe or a Black Globe in MT takes energy to work, if<BR>
for example, someone wants to use them for Iris Valves on a ship, they have<BR>
to have one for each entry way & be willing to pay the energy cost for them.<BR>
    Now at TL-20, the TL of my game, the Smallest White Globe Generator out<BR>
there is Power:  100 MW, Volume:  30 m^3, Weight:  25 tons, & Cost:  900<BR>
MCr.  Now, if a player is willing to shell out 900 MCr. per doorway & window<BR>
in a ship, more power to him.  Of course if you have that kind of money to<BR>
spend on one ship, why not just buy several ships & put them to work for<BR>
you?<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:55:09 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
> Imperial units, surely? In England we use the metric system.<BR>
> <BR>
Actually the Americans have a slightly different system from Imperial.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:58:36 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: FS TL10 plasma field gun<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >10 MW input/2 MW output Plasma gun ; 100 kg, KCr 40<BR>
 >1500 MWs-1 batteries (5 phases fire) ; 500 kg, KCr 26.25<BR>
<BR>
A phase is 15 seconds long; I think it has sufficient MW s^-1 for 5<BR>
*turns* of fire.<BR>
<BR>
 >Crew 1; Range 1.4 km(46)/2.5 km(34)/4 km(8). Burst effect of 1/28 at<BR>
 >effective range, 1/15 at long range.<BR>
<BR>
Rapiras (all models) have side armor of 47.  PV 46 will only inflict <BR>
surface hits on a Rapira's flanks.<BR>
<BR>
 >See 55(3) for Concealed Bunkers. Basically, you need 11m3 of dirt moved<BR>
 >for<BR>
 >the bunker (2 hours with a dozer or explosives), plus 0.03 m3 of armour<BR>
 >plate for 5cm of overhead cover, plus 4 man-hours to conceal the<BR>
 >bunker.<BR>
 >This camoflagued field fortification will be treated as 'infantry<BR>
 >stationary<BR>
 >under concealment'.<BR>
<BR>
An energy weapon is automatically spotted when it fires.  Its fixed <BR>
position will be an unhealthy place after one shot.  Also, don't forget<BR>
to include the cost of the dozer, the crane which emplaces the overhead<BR>
armor-plate, and the vehicle which tows the gun to the site of em-<BR>
placement (one CEV could be designed to do all three), and the efforts <BR>
to conceal all this engineering shenanigans from the enemy.  ;)<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:13:18 +1000<BR>
From: Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au><BR>
Subject: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
<BR>
As I was searching through my miniatures the other night I came across<BR>
my Traveller Cardboard Heroes which I had completely forgotten about,<BR>
both Imperial Marines and Zhodani.<BR>
<BR>
The interesting thing was that although the Clamheads had the usual look<BR>
the Imps were in BD ala book4, rather than the distinctive BD I'm used<BR>
to seeing.<BR>
<BR>
I'm wondering if the distinctive look of BD was a MT thing, which is<BR>
when I first recall seeing it.<BR>
<BR>
Phill<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:19:58 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Broken Empath <fadetozero@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: pockets full of sixth sense, pockets full of psi<BR>
<BR>
to four and twenty droyne, it's very hard to lie...:-(<BR>
<BR>
bloody hell, guv, still testing how to post...<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:20:40 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Broken Empath <fadetozero@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: pockets full of sixth sense, pockets full of psi<BR>
<BR>
to four and twenty droyne, it's very hard to lie...:-(<BR>
<BR>
bloody hell, guv, still testing how to post...<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:29:22 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
<BR>
At 7:57 AM +1000 9/13/00, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
>(*) The Weasel Gun is produced by Famile Spofulum under appropriate licences<BR>
>from the Sayat Concordance's SAY-BOOM.<BR>
<BR>
The made me thing of the GURPS Zombie Gerbil gun.*  What<BR>
Ditzie really needs is to find a way into a dimension with magic<BR>
and tech for _real_ fun.<BR>
<BR>
*A Zombie Gerbil gun was made up shortly after Vehicles 2 came<BR>
out.  It is a laser that takes stream of gerbils, drains their<BR>
life force for energy to power the laser, cast the Zombie spell on them,<BR>
and then ejects them toward the enemy.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:29:02 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
<BR>
Are there any other Tasmanian TML members on the list?<BR>
<BR>
Harry<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:49:27 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 6:24:am<BR>
Subject: Doshes - (was: Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
> >Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Via electronic medium on 9/12/00 6:42 AM, mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
issued<BR>
> >forth:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> stealing dosh<BR>
> ><BR>
> >What is "dosh"?<BR>
><BR>
> Trav Trivia here:  I don't know if this was what was intended, but a<BR>
> looooong time ago ('80 or '81), Martian Metals called the tops of the<BR>
> cardboard backings to their blisterpacks of traveller miniatures (the part<BR>
> that had the Traveller logo) 'doshes' - these could be collected and<BR>
> redeemed for goodies.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
In Oz, "dosh" is pre-70's slang for money... a Pommy term I believe.  I say<BR>
"pre-70's" because I recall hearing my oldies use the term often, and their<BR>
friends.  Then in the 70's, it simply seemed to fade away, but decimal<BR>
currency had become "normal" by then (being intro'ed about '67-ish?), so<BR>
perhaps it's origins lay in pounds, shillings, and pence of the pre-decimal<BR>
days??<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:49:53 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>>> > Yeah.  Glouchester is "Glowster".<BR>
><BR>
>>  Any one out in California know how it's pronouced there?<BR>
><BR>
>"Dude."<BR>
<BR>
	<makes repetative, face-slapping motions>  Doug....walk into this.<BR>
;o)<BR>
<BR>
	That stereotype has survived an amazingly long time - almost ten<BR>
years ago in Iceland I had someone tell me I couldn't possibly be from<BR>
California because I didn't say things like "Whoa, duuude..."<BR>
I have almost never heard anyone use that word (at least by anyone over the<BR>
age of 10), unless it was in a mocking manner to imply that the person to<BR>
whom it is ascribed is a shaved-chimpanzee surfer- or football player-type<BR>
with a room temperature IQ and an over-abundance of testosterone.  <BR>
<BR>
	Veering back onto the off-topic topic:  here in Orange County, there<BR>
is a city named Westminster.  The residents are forever correcting everyone<BR>
else in the county who seem determined to pronounce it "west-mi-ni-ster",<BR>
instead of "west-min-ster."  As for Glouchester, we'd probably laugh<BR>
uncomfortably and fake it.  My guess would be "glo-ster"<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think, they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:58:25 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Legate Legion <legate@futureone.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>; Traveller Mailing List<BR>
<traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 7:29:am<BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> From: David P. Summers <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
><BR>
> >>1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Non-canon.  The only shields are black globes.  It would change<BR>
> >combat quite a bit.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>     What about the White Glove from Mega-Traveller?  I would have to say<BR>
> that it is canon.<BR>
<BR>
Man!  I forgot about the White Glove from MegaTraveller!  That's the one you<BR>
put on your hand and extend towards the enemy, it's voice activated by<BR>
saying, "Talk to the hand...?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:56:19 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
Rodney Basler writes:<BR>
<BR>
>      That stereotype has survived an amazingly long time - almost ten<BR>
> years ago in Iceland I had someone tell me I couldn't possibly be from<BR>
> California because I didn't say things like "Whoa, duuude..."<BR>
> I have almost never heard anyone use that word (at least by anyone over the<BR>
> age of 10), unless it was in a mocking manner to imply that the person to<BR>
> whom it is ascribed is a shaved-chimpanzee surfer- or football player-type<BR>
> with a room temperature IQ and an over-abundance of testosterone. <BR>
<BR>
Hm...in my experience, it indicates that the person in question is a pothead, possibly with bonus effects from shrooms or LSD.  Not sure how often I've actually heard it used, though (I had a college roommate who was a serious<BR>
pothead and might have used it, but he was from Maryland).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:04:23 -0500<BR>
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Full release to beta<BR>
<BR>
Pinkerdoo is pround to announce the full beta version of their Striker<BR>
Spreadsheet!<BR>
<BR>
It can be obtained at http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:08:06 -0400<BR>
From: Justin Kim <justinki@bellatlantic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: HIWG CD<BR>
<BR>
At 12:32 PM -0400 9/12/00, Kagehira@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     I can start zipping most of the material up, but I need to make sure what<BR>
>might be the best way to do this for both Unix, MAC and IBM users (some of<BR>
>the material is already zipped). And offhand I prefer not to do this as it<BR>
>makes it harder to access the material (although it would tell me what I've<BR>
>gone through and organized).<BR>
<BR>
	The standard Mac compression utility (Stuffit Expander) <BR>
handles zip files.  It will also translate linefeeds on text files <BR>
from PC -> Mac.<BR>
<BR>
	However, from a useability standpoint, I would recommend you <BR>
go with multiple CDs.  I can imagine how much of a pain in the *ss it <BR>
would be to search for that one particular rule or you need across <BR>
650 meg of zip files.<BR>
<BR>
Justin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:06:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
<BR>
> *A Zombie Gerbil gun was made up shortly after Vehicles 2 came<BR>
> out.  It is a laser that takes stream of gerbils, drains their<BR>
> life force for energy to power the laser, cast the Zombie spell on them,<BR>
> and then ejects them toward the enemy.<BR>
<BR>
I'd like to note that a Ghoul Gerbil Gun* would be better, as it would<BR>
paralyse targets in addition to causing impact damage.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
*A high tech variant of my LRP group's Ghoul Cat On A Stick terror weapon.<BR>
Or comedy weapon. It's largely an individual decision.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:08:59 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
> Actually the Americans have a slightly different system from Imperial.<BR>
<BR>
Really? I didn't know that. How's it different? (Just out of curiousity.<BR>
Don't bother typing an essay, anyone.)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:06:35 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
<BR>
On 12 Sep 2000, at 16:29, David P. Summers wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 7:57 AM +1000 9/13/00, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
> >(*) The Weasel Gun is produced by Famile Spofulum under appropriate licences<BR>
> >from the Sayat Concordance's SAY-BOOM.<BR>
> <BR>
> The made me thing of the GURPS Zombie Gerbil gun.*  What<BR>
> Ditzie really needs is to find a way into a dimension with magic<BR>
> and tech for _real_ fun.<BR>
> <BR>
> *A Zombie Gerbil gun was made up shortly after Vehicles 2 came<BR>
> out.  It is a laser that takes stream of gerbils, drains their<BR>
> life force for energy to power the laser, cast the Zombie spell on them,<BR>
> and then ejects them toward the enemy.<BR>
<BR>
The first thing my group thought of when we saw this was a Zombie Gerbil <BR>
launcher that uses the Zombie Gerbils as warheads (or was it as the guidance <BR>
packages?)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:10:18 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
On 13 Sep 2000, at 1:08, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Actually the Americans have a slightly different system from Imperial.<BR>
> <BR>
> Really? I didn't know that. How's it different? (Just out of curiousity.<BR>
> Don't bother typing an essay, anyone.)<BR>
<BR>
Mainly they use a quaint little gallon (about 8.8 lbs of water instead of <BR>
10).Thus a 44-gallon drum in the Commonwealth becomes a 50-gallon drum in the <BR>
US (and is about a 200 Litre drum in metric).<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3033<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3034</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 13 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3034<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Full release to beta<BR>
Re: Language<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Duelling Stoned Aslan (was: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited)<BR>
Re: Language<BR>
Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law <BR>
High Tech Melee weapons: was: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
White Globes..<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
Re: Aslan Pseudo-Personality <BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
GT Gearhead-Q: Bay Weapon Stats?<BR>
Re: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:11:09 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Full release to beta<BR>
<BR>
Whoooooooooooooooo!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
This is great!!!<BR>
<BR>
I may have to delay my latest useless Traveller project (creating a WML<BR>
version of the Spinward Marches - available from any WAP phone worldwide!)<BR>
to play with this.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: tsykoduk <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 3:04 PM<BR>
Subject: Full release to beta<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Pinkerdoo is pround to announce the full beta version of their Striker<BR>
> Spreadsheet!<BR>
><BR>
> It can be obtained at http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:26:52 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Language<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 13:43:18 -0700<BR>
> From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
> <BR>
> I had an Englishman make snide remarks about how unoriginal<BR>
> the place names in New England are (being mostly copies of<BR>
> English place names).  Of course the irony was that the people<BR>
> being unoriginal were, at the them, Englishmen....<BR>
<BR>
On my first trip to Rhode Island, I (a California native) was accompanied<BR>
by a guy who had grown up in the area, and was giving me the quickie<BR>
orientation tour on the drive to our hotel from the airport.  I watched<BR>
the signs for towns and suburbs and streets go by...Manahasset,<BR>
Pasquatonic, Asahisset, until they all began to blur together.  I blurted<BR>
out "How in god's name do you tell anything apart???"  He calmly began<BR>
reciting "San Leandro, San Anselmo, San Francisco, San Jose, Santa<BR>
Barbara, Santa Cruz..."  I was suitably chastened.  I guess it really is<BR>
just a question of what you grow up with. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:41:00 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Imperial units, surely? In England we use the metric system.<BR>
> ><BR>
> Actually the Americans have a slightly different system from Imperial.<BR>
<BR>
<tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
Surely you've heard of "neo-imperialism?"  The Third World has often<BR>
accused the United States of this practice.<BR>
<BR>
</tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
Personally, I like my imperialism Zhunastu-style....<BR>
<BR>
Or, from an old "Doonesbury":<BR>
<BR>
Q:  What does one wear to a power grab?<BR>
<BR>
A:  Nothing.  Doc [Kissinger] likes his power grabs naked.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:55:47 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Duelling Stoned Aslan (was: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited)<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Does the spice that Aslan are so fond of make them more relaxed about<BR>
> themselves. Picture a stoned aslan leaning on the shoulder of an equally<BR>
> drunk human crying "I love you man! Your the best frind I've ever had!"<BR>
> <BR>
> Would acts committed while drunk/stoned free Aslan from the necessity of<BR>
> Duelling? Would duelling with a drunk/stoned aslan be a dishonourable<BR>
> act?<BR>
<BR>
IMHO:  No, and maybe.  The Aslan in question, assuming that he knowingly<BR>
consumed intoxicants, is still responsible for his actions.  Honor would<BR>
dictate that he take responsibility for any offense he has given to<BR>
another honorable being (i.e., actual and cultural Aslan).  OTOH, some<BR>
clans might consider it dishonorable to challenge an obviously impaired<BR>
Aslan to a duel during said impairment.  On the gripping hand, other<BR>
clans might find it foolhardy not to take advantage of any edge that an<BR>
honorable being has freely yielded.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:55:50 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Language<BR>
<BR>
you wrote <BR>
<BR>
> > Tangential to that subject - what the hell is a pair of Oxfords (I know<BR>
> > they're shoes but what kind?)<BR>
<BR>
'A pair of oxfords' can also refer to a pair of men's dress<BR>
shirts made from oxford cloth, a type of cotton cloth. Oxfords<BR>
typically are a thicker cloth, often made of (softer and slightly<BR>
higher quality) egyptian cotton and frequently having button <BR>
down collars. I've seen window adds in shirt factory outlet stores<BR>
saying things like 'pair of Oxfords $24.99' for instance.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:56:50 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law <BR>
<BR>
adouglas@optonline.net wrote<BR>
<BR>
> An interesting question has come up in my fledgling free trader/SM CT<BR>
> campaign, to wit:<BR>
> How much do the players need to worry about the repercussions of their<BR>
> actions?<BR>
<BR>
How much to you, the referee, want them to worry about the<BR>
consequences of their actions?<BR>
<BR>
The more'realistic' your game universe is the more they should<BR>
worry about theconsequences of their actions.<BR>
 <BR>
> For the most part, interesting activities tend to also be somewhat illegal.<BR>
> My players are hesitant to get involved in situations for fear that it'll<BR>
> just wind up getting them busted. <BR>
<BR>
This sounds realistic. Many people in the real world are deterred<BR>
from crime for this reason.<BR>
<BR>
> I'm trying to get them to take more risks,<BR>
> but they're pushing back with the very valid point that risk is stupid if<BR>
> the authorities are just going to come after you... the game should not turn<BR>
> into Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.<BR>
<BR>
Have you considered introducing a situation where they can take<BR>
risks without it being illegal and/or the risk taking is necessary<BR>
to the groups survival? Many of the Traveller double adventures<BR>
featured putting the adventurers in situations where they more<BR>
or less had to take a certain action. When the charecters ship<BR>
was forced down by the pyramids in 'Shadows' they had to investigate<BR>
the pyramid and shut it down to escape. Tension arose from the<BR>
alien base itself and the animals living in it while the planets<BR>
insidious atmosphere provided a time limit. In 'Mission on<BR>
Mithril' the charecters ship broke down and the portmaster would<BR>
not order the part they neeeded unless they did a job for him.<BR>
<BR>
> Likewise, we can't have them just skip town every time they do something<BR>
> questionable. They will have to pass that way again sooner or later. And the<BR>
> hassle can follow the players. You get in trouble on one world, and sooner<BR>
> or later the word will spread and it'll catch up with you. Ultimately, the<BR>
> PCs spend all their time running and looking over their collective shoulder.<BR>
> <BR>
> The nub of the conflict we're having is that I'm viewing the Traveller<BR>
> universe as basically a civilized place. <BR>
<BR>
Then the players should consider going to a small portion of<BR>
it that is less civilized. This may be a different planet, a different<BR>
country on a balkanized planet, an area that is effectively an <BR>
amber zone or red zone (parts of the former Yugoslavia, parts of <BR>
Lebanon, parts of various African nations, Chetchnia, etc).<BR>
<BR>
> With civilization come rules of<BR>
> conduct, both codified (laws) and unwritten (morality/ethics), along with a<BR>
> lot of control over personal actions.<BR>
> <BR>
> Rules tend to stifle the sort of action that makes for good role playing,<BR>
> unless one simplifies the universe by having a war or somesuch occur. <BR>
<BR>
It's a big Imperium, there will always be a war or ten somewhere. <BR>
If that's not enough consider playing in the MT era.<BR>
<BR>
> Look<BR>
> at fiction set in our own time; the exciting stuff all takes place outside<BR>
> the law. That which takes place within the boundaries of the rules tends to<BR>
> be too cerebral/mundane to hold the interest of most players. An episode of<BR>
> Law & Order is great to watch, but it would make a lousy game scenario.<BR>
<BR>
Why?<BR>
<BR>
Just make the PC's the cops & the prosecutors, not the defendants.<BR>
<BR>
> So, how does one deal with this? IYTU, is it even an issue? Do I have to put<BR>
> a lot of effort into getting the authorities to conveniently ignore what's<BR>
> going on?<BR>
<BR>
You could always let them find a book entitled '101 Ways to<BR>
Make Easy Money without Breaking Imperial Law'. The players could<BR>
become confidence men, travelling from planet to planet scamming<BR>
people out of money but being careful not to steal so much that<BR>
it becomes an Imperial Crime. If they stick to smaller and lower<BR>
technology planets they decrease the chances of having bounty<BR>
hunters put on their tale.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:11:43 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: High Tech Melee weapons: was: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
"David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> puts out on the Ether:<BR>
>At 11:06 AM -0700 9/12/00, Jason Bernstein wrote:<BR>
> >I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
> >technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
> >1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
>Non-canon.  The only shields are black globes.  It would change<BR>
>combat quite a bit.<BR>
<BR>
Well, there is the Electrostatic Armor (ESA) detailed in Fire, Fusion & <BR>
Steel (TNE version).<BR>
I'd have to play around with the numbers to see if it could be made man <BR>
portable.<BR>
 From what I remember, the power supply would be the real pest.<BR>
<BR>
> >2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
>They exist in Traveller, they are just big and have a nasty kick.<BR>
>If you make them smaller and easier then you up the firepower a bit.<BR>
<BR>
In Traveller Tech Levels of 16+, I believe these become an option.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >3) "Ultra-Tech" Melee weapons, such as vibroblades, monoswords, and to a<BR>
> >lesser extent force swords<BR>
>Not a lot is said about melee weapons (in spite of marines with<BR>
>cutlasses).  Something like vibroblades could introduced on<BR>
>the idea that they exist, but just aren't worth a lot of mention.<BR>
>They wouldn't be a big change<BR>
>More cinematic swords are beyond that and would change things<BR>
>significantly.<BR>
<BR>
At first take, I'll agree with David on this.  Vibro-blades are probably <BR>
possible, but not such a big deal.<BR>
Like any gadget with moving parts & circuit boards, they can be a pest to <BR>
maintain on low tech planets.<BR>
A good sturdy high tech saber (at detailed at <BR>
http://spacevermin.homepage.com/TRAV/TravSwords.html, plug, plug)<BR>
would be more useful.<BR>
<BR>
Crunch guns and a small machine shop that can churn out Ferguson Rifles may <BR>
be more useful.<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:17:57 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: White Globes..<BR>
<BR>
According to the MegaTraveller Referee's Companion, White Globes are <BR>
available at TL 20.<BR>
Anything prior to that would be an Artifact...very rare...and very desired <BR>
by governments with a lot more resources than most PCs.<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
           You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication<BR>
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:00:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
At 02:14 PM 9/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>It isn't.  All California names have "San" or "Santa" in front<BR>
>of them  :-)<BR>
<BR>
News to the inhabitants of Los Angeles and Los Gatos.  :)  But we do seem<BR>
to have more saints than the Vatican.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:09:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
At 04:49 PM 9/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>"Dude."<BR>
><BR>
><makes repetative, face-slapping motions>  Doug....walk into this.<BR>
>;o)<BR>
><BR>
>That stereotype has survived an amazingly long time - almost ten<BR>
>years ago in Iceland I had someone tell me I couldn't possibly be from<BR>
>California because I didn't say things like "Whoa, duuude..."<BR>
<BR>
Whoa, dude!  (sorry)  But you'd be amazed some of the manglings we get of<BR>
local city and street names.  For example:<BR>
<BR>
Junipero Serra Blvd.<BR>
<BR>
How do you pronounce this?<BR>
<BR>
Hoo-ni-pero Sara.<BR>
<BR>
Not Juney-pear-o See-ra<BR>
<BR>
>I have almost never heard anyone use that word (at least by anyone over the<BR>
>age of 10), unless it was in a mocking manner to imply that the person to<BR>
>whom it is ascribed is a shaved-chimpanzee surfer- or football player-type<BR>
>with a room temperature IQ and an over-abundance of testosterone.<BR>
<BR>
Hang out in the Haight-Ashbury.  You hear entire conversations using that<BR>
one word.  <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:12:42 -0700<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 9/12/00 4:58 PM, roc@kewl.com.au issued forth:<BR>
<BR>
>>>> 1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
>>> <BR>
>>> Non-canon.  The only shields are black globes.  It would change<BR>
>>> combat quite a bit.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> What about the White Glove from Mega-Traveller?  I would have to say<BR>
>> that it is canon.<BR>
> <BR>
> Man!  I forgot about the White Glove from MegaTraveller!  That's the one you<BR>
> put on your hand and extend towards the enemy, it's voice activated by<BR>
> saying, "Talk to the hand...?"<BR>
<BR>
Causing the enemy to moonwalk in retreat?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:19:41 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
At 7:00 PM -0700 9/12/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>At 02:14 PM 9/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>  >It isn't.  All California names have "San" or "Santa" in front<BR>
>  >of them  :-)<BR>
><BR>
>News to the inhabitants of Los Angeles and Los Gatos.  :)  But we do seem<BR>
>to have more saints than the Vatican.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (but less than a non-CAian<BR>
might think :-).  Would it be too much hyperbole to say all<BR>
CA place names begin with San, Santa, or Los?<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:43:28 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Aslan Pseudo-Personality <BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>Yes indeed. The computer has been acting a bit funny lately...I suspect<BR>
that<BR>
>the strain of having to manage the engineering department is causing<BR>
>internal file corruption. Of course...it's only _supposed_ to be a<BR>
>personality simulation, but I rather suspect that it's making changes to<BR>
one<BR>
>of the backup computers to make it a female engineering server. Frankly, a<BR>
>personality sim wouldn't feel the strain from being forced to do<BR>
>dishonourable female jobs.<BR>
>As far as 'battle mode' goes, you've forgotten that piloting is a male job.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mia culpa indeed you are correct piloting is indeed a male job and one that<BR>
would interface with externals frequently.  I still suspect that the Aslan<BR>
programmer, presumedly female, would have created at least two<BR>
pseudo-personalities ,one male and the other female, to preserve at least in<BR>
her mind the Aslan Ying/Yang division of labor or life view for want of a<BR>
better description.   That is how I would expect such might be done on an<BR>
Aslan ship.  Perhaps I am seeing them as to hard wired by instinct/culture<BR>
but it just seems right to me.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:30:38 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
From: The Roc <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>>     What about the White Glove from Mega-Traveller?  I would have to say<BR>
>> that it is canon.<BR>
><BR>
>Man!  I forgot about the White Glove from MegaTraveller!  That's the one<BR>
you<BR>
>put on your hand and extend towards the enemy, it's voice activated by<BR>
>saying, "Talk to the hand...?"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    LL activates his White Glove by extending his hand to the Roc & says,<BR>
"Talk to the hand...."<BR>
    It also works against annoying pro-wraslers.<BR>
    I meant White Globe.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:51:28 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: GT Gearhead-Q: Bay Weapon Stats?<BR>
<BR>
This reply has also been sent to the newsgroups.<BR>
This has probably been asked and answered before, but if so I have<BR>
not seen it. Simply put, the bay weapons listed in the Armaments<BR>
Table on GT156 are much heavier than allowed for by GURPS Vehicles.<BR>
The density for nearly all mechanical and electronic equipment in<BR>
GURPS Vehicles is 50 pounds per cubic foot, which works out to 12.5<BR>
stons/dton. The only two major exceptions to this are power cell<BR>
energy banks (which are twice that) and power slices (one third that<BR>
due to long term access space). Therefore the contents of a 10 dton<BR>
weapons bay should mass a maximum of 250 stons (and that's only if<BR>
it is filled with rE-cells), but all three bay weapons are well in<BR>
excess of this. What gives? Are the weapons too big, the bays too<BR>
small or this just a CT -> GT translation problem?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |  Paul Newman imitates the pregnant telegram and  |<BR>
              |          the indictable rescuer. FNORD!          |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:13:32 +1100 (EST)<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
<BR>
Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> As I was searching through my miniatures the other night I came<BR>
across<BR>
> my Traveller Cardboard Heroes which I had completely forgotten<BR>
about,<BR>
> both Imperial Marines and Zhodani.<BR>
> <BR>
> The interesting thing was that although the Clamheads had the usual<BR>
look<BR>
> the Imps were in BD ala book4, rather than the distinctive BD I'm<BR>
used<BR>
> to seeing.<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm wondering if the distinctive look of BD was a MT thing, which<BR>
is<BR>
> when I first recall seeing it.<BR>
> <BR>
> Phill<BR>
<BR>
I remember seeing the distinctive BD look for the first time in the<BR>
Spinward Marches Campaign, which was published well before MT.  It<BR>
included "action shots" as well as full page diagrams if I remember<BR>
correctly (which I thought very cool).  I don't recall seeing any<BR>
pictures of BD in Book 4 at all.  Are you sure you are mean<BR>
Book4/Mercenary?<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
Craig.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au>  <craig_barnett@iname.com><BR>
Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________________________<BR>
http://geocities.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Australia & NZ GeoCities<BR>
- - Build your own Web Site - for free!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:55:52 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
>     What about the White Glove from Mega-Traveller?  I would have to say<BR>
> that it is canon.<BR>
<BR>
 While I might admit (under truth serum and extreme psychological assault) to <BR>
LISTENING to the Gloved One while playing MT, I would never actually use <BR>
him(?) in a game. We already have one Terran Saint...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:18:04 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Mark Preston <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 2:29 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> But, you see Ben, that's because everyone south of Manchester are just<BR>
> southern woosies. And as for those easterners living in Yorkshire,<BR>
> well I suppose they can't help being second best to us in God's own<BR>
> county (Lancashire, of course).<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I'm always pleased to see our Friends in the North maintaining thier sense<BR>
humour in the face of adversity.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:21:33 -0500<BR>
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
Yep.... I hail from Sebastopol CA, near Sonoma, near Forestville, just south<BR>
of the Russian River.<BR>
<BR>
;P<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of David P. Summers<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 9:20 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 7:00 PM -0700 9/12/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>At 02:14 PM 9/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>  >It isn't.  All California names have "San" or "Santa" in front<BR>
>  >of them  :-)<BR>
><BR>
>News to the inhabitants of Los Angeles and Los Gatos.  :)  But we do seem<BR>
>to have more saints than the Vatican.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (but less than a non-CAian<BR>
might think :-).  Would it be too much hyperbole to say all<BR>
CA place names begin with San, Santa, or Los?<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in<BR>
California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:26:25 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
on 9/12/00 7:19 PM, David P. Summers at summers@alum.mit.edu wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 7:00 PM -0700 9/12/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>> At 02:14 PM 9/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>> It isn't.  All California names have "San" or "Santa" in front<BR>
>>> of them  :-)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> News to the inhabitants of Los Angeles and Los Gatos.  :)  But we do seem<BR>
>> to have more saints than the Vatican.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (but less than a non-CAian<BR>
> might think :-).  Would it be too much hyperbole to say all<BR>
> CA place names begin with San, Santa, or Los?<BR>
> <BR>
> ______________________________<BR>
<BR>
Redding? Ventura? Hollywood? Pasadena? Beverly Hills?<BR>
<BR>
Tod (Born in Santa Cruz)<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 23:28:58 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
On 09/12/00 at 06:19 PM,  "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> I know metric, and did enough work with it at school that I have a<BR>
>> "feel" for kilos as well as pounds. But I still tend to think in<BR>
>> "english" units for a lot of everyday stuff.<BR>
<BR>
>Imperial units, surely? In England we use the metric system.<BR>
<BR>
No, english units is a common term for the measurements Americans use. We don't care what England actually uses, and they (and we) aren't really Imperial. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 05:31:46 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Derrick Jones <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
To: 'TML' <traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 8:29 PM<BR>
Subject: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> (Oh, and I still say that Oxfords are baggy trousers. That's what they used to<BR>
have<BR>
> round here where I live. But each locality to it's own! -We have Chelsea<BR>
Boots, and<BR>
> Brogues, but not an inkling of Oxford Shoes, not here no way. Bolton Clogs<BR>
maybe,<BR>
> but not Oxford Shoes!)<BR>
><BR>
I was referring to the American use of the term specifically 'he was wearing a<BR>
pair of lace up oxfords' referenced in the Ed McBain books that has been quietly<BR>
driving me crazy for about twenty years now.<BR>
<BR>
If we had Oxford shoes in the UK I wouldn't have needed to ask.<BR>
<BR>
What the hell are Chelsea Boots?<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Steal things - if its good enough for Shakespeare its good enough for you.'<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:34:47 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
At 9:26 PM -0700 9/12/00, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
>  > Well, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (but less than a non-CAian<BR>
>  > might think :-).  Would it be too much hyperbole to say all<BR>
>  > CA place names begin with San, Santa, or Los?<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > ______________________________<BR>
><BR>
>Redding? Ventura? Hollywood? Pasadena? Beverly Hills?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I don't think those places really exist :-)<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3034<BR>
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Precedence: bulk


Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 13 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3035



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029
RE: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )
RE: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )
RE: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems
RE: Re OT Date Systems
RE: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress
RE: Aslan Pseudo-Personality 
RE: Re OT Date Systems
RE: Aslan Pseudo-Personality 
RE: Re OT Date Systems
Flashbacks
RE: Re OT Date Systems
RE: Aslan Pseudo-Personality 
RE: The Zombie Gerbil Gun (was Just how non-canon is THIS ?)
RE: High Tech Melee weapons: was: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029
RE: J-J-J-Jae Tellona
RE: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds
Re: 
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?
OT: UK Fuel crisis
Re: Challenge index
Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:04:11 -0700
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029

On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:34:47 -0700, "David P. Summers" 
<summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> >Redding? Ventura? Hollywood? Pasadena? Beverly Hills?
>
>I don't think those places really exist :-)

(David is, of course, immediately attacked by a Ventura Of Unusual Size, 
namely the Governor of Minnesota.)



- --------------
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:13:11 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )

> 
> In Oz, "dosh" is pre-70's slang for money... a Pommy term I 
> believe.  I say
> "pre-70's" because I recall hearing my oldies use the term 
> often, and their
> friends.  Then in the 70's, it simply seemed to fade away, but decimal
> currency had become "normal" by then (being intro'ed about 
> '67-ish?), so
> perhaps it's origins lay in pounds, shillings, and pence of 
> the pre-decimal
> days??
> 


Yeah, us whingers still use the term 'dosh' as slang for money...in the
shandy-drinking south anyway. I don't know what the Real Men of Yorkshire
and Lancashire call it ;)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:09:47 +0100
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )

> Yeah, us whingers still use the term 'dosh' as slang for 
> money...in the
> shandy-drinking south anyway. I don't know what the Real Men 
> of Yorkshire
> and Lancashire call it ;)

'Brass', as in "Wer thers muck, thers brass!"

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:09:03 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Language (was:  Re: Re OT Date Systems

Anthony Jackson wrote :
> Rodney Basler writes:
> >      That stereotype has survived an amazingly long time - almost ten
> > years ago in Iceland I had someone tell me I couldn't possibly be from
> > California because I didn't say things like "Whoa, duuude..."
> > I have almost never heard anyone use that word (at least by 
> > anyone over the  age of 10), unless it was in a mocking manner to 
> > imply that the person to whom it is ascribed is a shaved-chimpanzee 
> > surfer- or football player-type with a room temperature IQ and an 
> > over-abundance of testosterone. 
> 
> Hm...in my experience, it indicates that the person in question 
> is a pothead, possibly with bonus effects from shrooms or LSD.  

And here was I thinking it meant you were a Keanu Reeves fan.

Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:28:33 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems

Ben Aaronovitch wrote

> What the hell are Chelsea Boots?

No, it's _the_ Chelsea Boots, a chemist shop in Chelsea, a place famous for
it's Pensioners, who in turn need the services of a chemist shop. "Boots" is
a chain of chemist shops (or drug stores for you yanks).

Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:36:41 +1200
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz>
Subject: RE: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress

Craig Barnett wrote

> I remember seeing the distinctive BD look for the first time in the
> Spinward Marches Campaign, which was published well before MT.  It
> included "action shots" as well as full page diagrams if I remember
> correctly (which I thought very cool).

Yep, you're rght.
Though I always thought they stole the design from Paranoia when I first saw
it.

> I don't recall seeing any
> pictures of BD in Book 4 at all.  Are you sure you are mean
> Book4/Mercenary?

Book 4 has a trooper in a combat environment suit. Many people thought that
this _was_
battledress at the time.

I used to wear ex-British Army battledress ( merely a khaki, many-pocketed
heavy wool jacket and trousers) so it's easy to see why people would think
this. It wasn't until later that the word "battledress" became synonymous
with "Imperial Marine Combat Armour"

Frankie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:50:06 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Aslan Pseudo-Personality 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Phelps [mailto:phelpsd@gate.net]
> Sent: 13 September 2000 02:43
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Aslan Pseudo-Personality 
> 
> 
> Was written:
> 
> >Yes indeed. The computer has been acting a bit funny 
> lately...I suspect
> that
> >the strain of having to manage the engineering department is causing
> >internal file corruption. Of course...it's only _supposed_ to be a
> >personality simulation, but I rather suspect that it's 
> making changes to
> one
> >of the backup computers to make it a female engineering 
> server. Frankly, a
> >personality sim wouldn't feel the strain from being forced to do
> >dishonourable female jobs.
> >As far as 'battle mode' goes, you've forgotten that piloting 
> is a male job.
> 
> 
> Mia culpa indeed you are correct piloting is indeed a male 
> job and one that
> would interface with externals frequently.  I still suspect 
> that the Aslan
> programmer, presumedly female, would have created at least two
> pseudo-personalities ,one male and the other female, to 
> preserve at least in
> her mind the Aslan Ying/Yang division of labor or life view 
> for want of a
> better description.   That is how I would expect such might 
> be done on an
> Aslan ship.  Perhaps I am seeing them as to hard wired by 
> instinct/culture
> but it just seems right to me.
> 

I'd go along with that. My GM lurks on the TML (AFAIK) so he'd probably have
seen something about this. In my own game (I play one and GM another) we
haven't dealt with Aslan AI yet.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:02:04 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Preston <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
> To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 2:29 PM
> Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems
> 
> 
> > But, you see Ben, that's because everyone south of 
> Manchester are just
> > southern woosies. And as for those easterners living in Yorkshire,
> > well I suppose they can't help being second best to us in God's own
> > county (Lancashire, of course).
> >
> 
> I'm always pleased to see our Friends in the North 
> maintaining thier sense
> humour in the face of adversity.
> 


Meow! A saucer of milk for table 2, please. It's not their fault they're
gonna have to go back to using coal to power their cars. :)

OB-Trav: A TL9 planet is currently experience a fuel crisis, brought about
by the high duty on LH2 refining(metallic impurities in the hydrosphere make
wilderness refueling impossible, and there is no gas giant in-system). The
refinaries are being picketed by locally-based merchant vessels. The local
government, a charismatic dictatorship ;) , has requested that processed
hydrogen be brought in from a nearby system (no, it doesn't make economic
sense). The players will be forced to contend with Mad-Max style Jump-fuel
pirates, picket-ships denouncing them as scabs, suspicious SDBs, rivals etc.
Plus they have to make sure they keep enough fuel to get out of the system
again. Alternately, they don't know about the crisis and are stranded.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:18:57 +0100
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Aslan Pseudo-Personality 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Phelps [mailto:phelpsd@gate.net]
> Sent: 13 September 2000 02:43
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Aslan Pseudo-Personality 
> 
> 
> Was written:
> 
> >Yes indeed. The computer has been acting a bit funny 
> lately...I suspect
> that
> >the strain of having to manage the engineering department is causing
> >internal file corruption. Of course...it's only _supposed_ to be a
> >personality simulation, but I rather suspect that it's 
> making changes to
> one
> >of the backup computers to make it a female engineering 
> server. Frankly, a
> >personality sim wouldn't feel the strain from being forced to do
> >dishonourable female jobs.
> >As far as 'battle mode' goes, you've forgotten that piloting 
> is a male job.
> 
> 
> Mia culpa indeed you are correct piloting is indeed a male 
> job and one that
> would interface with externals frequently.  I still suspect 
> that the Aslan
> programmer, presumably female, would have created at least two
> pseudo-personalities ,one male and the other female, to 
> preserve at least in
> her mind the Aslan Ying/Yang division of labor or life view 
> for want of a
> better description.   That is how I would expect such might 
> be done on an
> Aslan ship.  Perhaps I am seeing them as to hard wired by 
> instinct/culture
> but it just seems right to me.
> 
> Dan

Probably uses the male personality for the anti-virus software...

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:24:17 +0100
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Aaronovitch [mailto:bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk]
> Sent: 12 September 2000 17:18
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Preston <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk>
> To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 2:29 PM
> Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems
> 
> 
> > But, you see Ben, that's because everyone south of 
> Manchester are just
> > southern woosies. And as for those easterners living in Yorkshire,
> > well I suppose they can't help being second best to us in God's own
> > county (Lancashire, of course).
> >
> 
> I'm always pleased to see our Friends in the North 
> maintaining thier sense
> humour in the face of adversity.
> 
> Ben Aaronovitch

Adversity? What adversity? I happen to have deliberately chosen to live
in a northern city with a large brewery that still has a few horse-drawn
drays, for just this eventuality. There might be no petrol, but there's
still beer!

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:11:58 -0400
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Flashbacks

Doug Berry releases into the Ether:
>Hang out in the Haight-Ashbury.  You hear entire conversations using that
>one word.

My first trip to San Francisco, my brother picked me up from the airport 
and we drove to Haight-Ashbury for a beer.
I got out of the car and there were two teenage poncho wearing hippie 
wannabes sitting against the building looking a little bleary (worse for 
wear and tear).

I thought I was back in New Paltz...


- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
           You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:51:51 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems

> > 
> > > But, you see Ben, that's because everyone south of 
> > Manchester are just
> > > southern woosies. And as for those easterners living in Yorkshire,
> > > well I suppose they can't help being second best to us in 
> God's own
> > > county (Lancashire, of course).
> > >
> > 
> > I'm always pleased to see our Friends in the North 
> > maintaining thier sense
> > humour in the face of adversity.
> > 
> > Ben Aaronovitch
> 
> Adversity? What adversity? I happen to have deliberately 
> chosen to live
> in a northern city with a large brewery that still has a few 
> horse-drawn
> drays, for just this eventuality. There might be no petrol, 
> but there's
> still beer!
> 


<<<<<<<<<Jeaolosy>>>>>>>>>>>>

We've not run out of beer yet, but it's only a matter of time.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:53:10 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Aslan Pseudo-Personality 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Bond [mailto:MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk]
> Sent: 13 September 2000 12:19
> To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'
> Subject: RE: Aslan Pseudo-Personality 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Daniel Phelps [mailto:phelpsd@gate.net]
> > Sent: 13 September 2000 02:43
> > To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> > Subject: Re: Aslan Pseudo-Personality 
> > 
> > 
> > Was written:
> > 
> > >Yes indeed. The computer has been acting a bit funny 
> > lately...I suspect
> > that
> > >the strain of having to manage the engineering department 
> is causing
> > >internal file corruption. Of course...it's only _supposed_ to be a
> > >personality simulation, but I rather suspect that it's 
> > making changes to
> > one
> > >of the backup computers to make it a female engineering 
> > server. Frankly, a
> > >personality sim wouldn't feel the strain from being forced to do
> > >dishonourable female jobs.
> > >As far as 'battle mode' goes, you've forgotten that piloting 
> > is a male job.
> > 
> > 
> > Mia culpa indeed you are correct piloting is indeed a male 
> > job and one that
> > would interface with externals frequently.  I still suspect 
> > that the Aslan
> > programmer, presumably female, would have created at least two
> > pseudo-personalities ,one male and the other female, to 
> > preserve at least in
> > her mind the Aslan Ying/Yang division of labor or life view 
> > for want of a
> > better description.   That is how I would expect such might 
> > be done on an
> > Aslan ship.  Perhaps I am seeing them as to hard wired by 
> > instinct/culture
> > but it just seems right to me.
> > 
> > Dan
> 
> Probably uses the male personality for the anti-virus software...
> 

I'd say a combo of both...the female finds the virus, the male beats it up.

Dean

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:03:05 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: The Zombie Gerbil Gun (was Just how non-canon is THIS ?)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: David P. Summers [mailto:summers@alum.mit.edu]
> Sent: 13 September 2000 00:29
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?
> 
> 
> At 7:57 AM +1000 9/13/00, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:
> >(*) The Weasel Gun is produced by Famile Spofulum under 
> appropriate licences
> >from the Sayat Concordance's SAY-BOOM.
> 
> The made me thing of the GURPS Zombie Gerbil gun.*  What
> Ditzie really needs is to find a way into a dimension with magic
> and tech for _real_ fun.
> 
> *A Zombie Gerbil gun was made up shortly after Vehicles 2 came
> out.  It is a laser that takes stream of gerbils, drains their
> life force for energy to power the laser, cast the Zombie 
> spell on them,
> and then ejects them toward the enemy.
> 

Does this delighful technomagical device come from the fertile mind of Mr.
Pulver? I hope so...I'd be worried if there were more people who could
produce such ideas :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:10:46 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: High Tech Melee weapons: was: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?

> 
> "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> puts out on the Ether:
> >At 11:06 AM -0700 9/12/00, Jason Bernstein wrote:
> > >I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of
> > >technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).
> > >1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)
> >Non-canon.  The only shields are black globes.  It would change
> >combat quite a bit.
> 
> Well, there is the Electrostatic Armor (ESA) detailed in 
> Fire, Fusion & 
> Steel (TNE version).
> I'd have to play around with the numbers to see if it could 
> be made man 
> portable.
>  From what I remember, the power supply would be the real pest.

Yeah, no arguement, but ESA is an alternate tech form of shielding. Strictly
speaking, not canon (even less so than HEPlaR, but let's not go there :)).
Personally I quite like shipboard ESA...I'm not knocking it.

<snip>

> 
> > >3) "Ultra-Tech" Melee weapons, such as vibroblades, 
> monoswords, and to a
> > >lesser extent force swords
> >Not a lot is said about melee weapons (in spite of marines with
> >cutlasses).  Something like vibroblades could introduced on
> >the idea that they exist, but just aren't worth a lot of mention.
> >They wouldn't be a big change
> >More cinematic swords are beyond that and would change things
> >significantly.
> 
> At first take, I'll agree with David on this.  Vibro-blades 
> are probably 
> possible, but not such a big deal.
> Like any gadget with moving parts & circuit boards, they can 
> be a pest to 
> maintain on low tech planets.
> A good sturdy high tech saber (at detailed at 

Oops, don't know what happened to Marks link ;)

 plug, plug)
> would be more useful.
> 
> Crunch guns and a small machine shop that can churn out 
> Ferguson Rifles may 
> be more useful.
> 

Agreed...it's not impossible to create vibro weapons IMTU, they're just more
trouble than they're worth. Molly-wire edged weapons blunt easily unless
used carefully and are a <expletive deleted> to sharpen and keep sharp. The
power reqs for a column of anilhilative/fusion energy contained within a
tight magnetic jacket preclude the use of force swords. I just don't mention
sonic blades to the players, and no-one's asked :)

Dean

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:12:32 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kelly St.Clair [mailto:kellys@efn.org]
> Sent: 13 September 2000 09:04
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029
> 
> 
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:34:47 -0700, "David P. Summers" 
> <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> 
> > >Redding? Ventura? Hollywood? Pasadena? Beverly Hills?
> >
> >I don't think those places really exist :-)
> 
> (David is, of course, immediately attacked by a Ventura Of 
> Unusual Size, 
> namely the Governor of Minnesota.)
> 

That'd be Jesse 'The Mind' (snigger), right? 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:19:05 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: J-J-J-Jae Tellona

> 
> At 07:15 PM 9/12/2000 +1000, you wrote:
> 
> >Craig Berry wrote:
> 
> >> Well, there go the terms of my parole.  Brace yourselves, people.
> 
> >MAKE THE BAD MAN STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!
> 
> Ha!  I had to grow up around him, and my father, who was 
> worse than Craig
> and I combined!  We didn't eat unless we punned!
> -- 

I'll just bet you boys drink at Callahan's (an ice-cream to the first person
to name the author) 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:27:03 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: RE: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds

> 
> With a slight lean on current events in the UK, a post mostly 
> Ob Trav...
> 
> <Message begins>
> 
> [Newsflash]
> Terra 021-1123
> 
> The system was dragged to a standstill today, as blockades continued
> into their third day. The protesters, angry at ever 
> increasing prices for
> refined fuel, continued their 'peaceful' protest surrounding 
> the manifold
> Liquid Hydrogen refineries, allowing no tanker traffic out 
> all day, except
> for a small convoy of supplies to emergency service installations.
> 
> In a planet wide protest, with unity never before seen, 
> people of all walks
> of life protested the inflationary 'escalator' pricing policy 
> of the imposed
> government. Prices have seen  massive hikes of over 35 percent in the
> last few years since the last government was voted in.
> 
> A spokesman for the government, Tory Planb (MI)* said he was 
> considering
> sending in the marines to put the 'illegal protest' down once 
> and for all!
> 
> Starships and Small Vehicles alike are being grounded for 
> lack of fuel,
> crippling the economy, and causing thousands of staff to be 
> laid off in
> starports all over the planet, after 'panic buying' caused 
> stockpiles to
> be drained. 
> 
> Reports are appearing of entrepreneurial fuel vendors 
> 'profiteering' by charging
> upwards of 15KCr per tonne of LH2. This practice has been slammed by
> the authorities as a callous and exploitative misuse of power.
> 
> Further reports as they come in...
> 
> <End of Message>
> 
> 
> Derrick


Curses! I should really read earlier posts carefully. Apologies, Derrick,
you got yours in first. Still, at least it was a Jones as did it. :)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:05:30 GMT
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: 

In mail, Ben Aaronovitch asked...

"What the hell are Chelsea Boots?"

They are the ones that come to just about ankle level, with elasticated 
inserts either side.  Also called Jodphur or Riding boots (the latter can 
cause confusion amongst those who consider the long ones that come to just 
below knee to be 'real' riding boots...).

Cam someone please tell me the correct wording and speaker of the "I knew 
I'd see the first man on the moon, but I didn't expect to see the last 
one"-like quote - I know someone had it as their sigline recently but cannot 
find it...  Thanks,

Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, Mind like a... what was it again?)
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:07:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?

On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella wrote:
>
> Via electronic medium on 9/12/00 4:58 PM, roc@kewl.com.au issued forth:
> > 
> > Man!  I forgot about the White Glove from MegaTraveller!  That's the
> > one you put on your hand and extend towards the enemy, it's voice 
> > activated by saying, "Talk to the hand...?"
> 
> Causing the enemy to moonwalk in retreat?

I thought the *white* glove was for holding the short poisoned blade and
the *black* glove was for holding the longer un-poisoned one (unless, of
course, you're cheating).
                                                             - J. Raynor

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:42:39 +0100
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com>
Subject: OT: UK Fuel crisis

Could anyone use a list of those sites the govt. has labled as 'priority' to
recieve petrol shipments? Reply off-list.

Dean

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:48:23 EDT
From: Kagehira@aol.com
Subject: Re: Challenge index

    Try looking at:

members.aol.htm/kagekiha/challeng.htm
td_index.htm for Traveller's Digest
jtas.htm for JTAS index

    It looks like it lost the main file perhaps.

Bryan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:09:01 +1000
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au>
Subject: Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona

"Jones, Dean" wrote:

> >
> > At 07:15 PM 9/12/2000 +1000, you wrote:
> >
> > >Craig Berry wrote:
> >
> > >> Well, there go the terms of my parole.  Brace yourselves, people.
> >
> > >MAKE THE BAD MAN STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!
> >
> > Ha!  I had to grow up around him, and my father, who was
> > worse than Craig
> > and I combined!  We didn't eat unless we punned!
> > --
>
> I'll just bet you boys drink at Callahan's (an ice-cream to the first person
> to name the author)

Spider Robinson

Where's my ice-cream?

Other Rob

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3035
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3036</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/13/00 10:03:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>
Reply-to:	traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
To:	traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 13 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3036<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Challenge index<BR>
RE: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
RE: High Tech Melee weapons: was: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
RE: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
RE: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
RE: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
re:  Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: JTAS & Challenge index<BR>
RE: JTAS & Challenge index<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
Naming patterns<BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:00:26 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Challenge index<BR>
<BR>
Nope, but I did manage to get http://members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller/ ,<BR>
and that's got all the links on it. I guess I must be my system?<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Kagehira@aol.com [mailto:Kagehira@aol.com]<BR>
> Sent: 13 September 2000 14:48<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Challenge index<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
>     Try looking at:<BR>
> <BR>
> members.aol.htm/kagekiha/challeng.htm<BR>
> td_index.htm for Traveller's Digest<BR>
> jtas.htm for JTAS index<BR>
> <BR>
>     It looks like it lost the main file perhaps.<BR>
> <BR>
> Bryan<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:03:33 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
I'll Fed-ex it over :) <BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Robert Houghton [mailto:rhoughto@one.net.au]<BR>
> Sent: 13 September 2000 16:09<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> "Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > At 07:15 PM 9/12/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > >Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > >> Well, there go the terms of my parole.  Brace <BR>
> yourselves, people.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > >MAKE THE BAD MAN STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Ha!  I had to grow up around him, and my father, who was<BR>
> > > worse than Craig<BR>
> > > and I combined!  We didn't eat unless we punned!<BR>
> > > --<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I'll just bet you boys drink at Callahan's (an ice-cream to <BR>
> the first person<BR>
> > to name the author)<BR>
> <BR>
> Spider Robinson<BR>
> <BR>
> Where's my ice-cream?<BR>
> <BR>
> Other Rob<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:38:00 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: High Tech Melee weapons: was: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
"Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> slips into the Ether:<BR>
> > "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> puts out on the Ether:<BR>
> > >At 11:06 AM -0700 9/12/00, Jason Bernstein wrote:<BR>
> > > >I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
> > > >technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
> > > >1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
> > >Non-canon.  The only shields are black globes.  It would change<BR>
> > >combat quite a bit.<BR>
> > Well, there is the Electrostatic Armor (ESA) detailed in<BR>
> > Fire, Fusion &  Steel (TNE version).<BR>
> > I'd have to play around with the numbers to see if it could<BR>
> > be made man  portable.<BR>
> >  From what I remember, the power supply would be the real pest.<BR>
>Yeah, no arguement, but ESA is an alternate tech form of shielding. Strictly<BR>
>speaking, not canon (even less so than HEPlaR, but let's not go there :)).<BR>
>Personally I quite like shipboard ESA...I'm not knocking it.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm...I don't think it was in the Alt Tech section of FF&S.  Perhaps in <BR>
the T4 version.<BR>
Valid and open for abuse...At Max Imperial Tech Levels, the unit itself is <BR>
quite small...the power supply on the other hand...<BR>
<BR>
The link you lost is http://spacevermin.homepage.com/TRAV/TravSwords.html<BR>
While I'm at <BR>
it...  http://spacevermin.homepage.com/TRAV/GH/Battledress_rant.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
Monday special, two valiums with a coffee chaser.<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 07:46:23 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: RE: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > At 07:15 PM 9/12/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >> Well, there go the terms of my parole.  Brace yourselves, people.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >MAKE THE BAD MAN STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Ha!  I had to grow up around him, and my father, who was <BR>
> > worse than Craig<BR>
> > and I combined!  We didn't eat unless we punned!<BR>
> > -- <BR>
> <BR>
> I'll just bet you boys drink at Callahan's (an ice-cream to the first person<BR>
> to name the author) <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
The arachnid castaway, as Doc would say, except he'd do it much better<BR>
than I...;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:53:46 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > At 07:15 PM 9/12/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > >Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > >> Well, there go the terms of my parole.  Brace <BR>
> yourselves, people.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > >MAKE THE BAD MAN STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > Ha!  I had to grow up around him, and my father, who was <BR>
> > > worse than Craig<BR>
> > > and I combined!  We didn't eat unless we punned!<BR>
> > > -- <BR>
> > <BR>
> > I'll just bet you boys drink at Callahan's (an ice-cream to <BR>
> the first person<BR>
> > to name the author) <BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> The arachnid castaway, as Doc would say, except he'd do it much better<BR>
> than I...;-)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Scorpion Crusoe?!? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:04:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
At 01:19 PM 9/13/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I'll just bet you boys drink at Callahan's (an ice-cream to the first person<BR>
>to name the author) <BR>
<BR>
Kirsten, my better 2/3rds (Jake and I share a taste for large women), is a<BR>
regular in the #callahans IRC channel and in the newsgroup.  She's also a<BR>
regular in the newsgroup.  Look for kshandra.  Occassionally, I will<BR>
pot-shot comments over her shoulder as TheSniper.<BR>
<BR>
I don't do IRC myself because I can't keep up.  What you see here is the<BR>
result of slow and careful typing, and waiting for the occasional tremors<BR>
to pass...<BR>
<BR>
But in that vein:<BR>
<BR>
Callahan's Bar<BR>
<BR>
Words: Jordin Kare<BR>
Music: "Oh, Susannah!"<BR>
From The Westerfilk Collection, Volume One Words copyright 1979 by Jordin<BR>
Kare.<BR>
<BR>
There is a bar called Callahan's; it's really quite a place.<BR>
There's aliens there every night, from every world and race.<BR>
And when the puns start flying, as they do at quite a rate,<BR>
Not even steel-jawed robots can quite keep their faces straight.<BR>
<BR>
Chorus: <BR>
<BR>
Spider, oh Spider, why won't you tell us where<BR>
Callahan's is hidden? Then we'll do our drinking there.<BR>
<BR>
A time traveller comes in each week and buys a couple beers.<BR>
He drinks them down, then taps his belt and promptly disappears.<BR>
Next week, same time, he's back again, still potted to the ears;<BR>
He's been on one long bender for some twenty thousand years.<BR>
<BR>
Chorus<BR>
<BR>
There is a guy with funny eyes, his name is Michael Finn.<BR>
He carries quite an arsenal 'round underneath his skin.<BR>
His masters had him programmed, once, to do the whole earth in;<BR>
And the only thing that stopped him was a glass of homemade gin!<BR>
<BR>
Chorus<BR>
<BR>
A frigid-blooded Nadreck-type who wandered in one night<BR>
Announced to one and all that he was looking for a fight.<BR>
Mike said "I'll have no fighting here, in any shape or form!"<BR>
And with a single mighty blow, he knocked the fellow...warm?<BR>
<BR>
Chorus<BR>
<BR>
A large gray wolf paced to the bar, and ordered in a growl.<BR>
Mike dusted off an old brown jug; he gave a joyful howl.<BR>
One swallow and there stood a man. 'Twas quite a trick to pull,<BR>
But the liquor it was moonshine and the bottle it was full!<BR>
<BR>
Chorus<BR>
<BR>
Doc Webster, feeling gene-ial, once told us of the day<BR>
He mixed vegetable chromosomes with canine DNA.<BR>
He crossed Lassie with a cantaloupe. Said Mike, "So what'd you get?"<BR>
"Why, a melon-collie baby... and one hell of a startled vet!"<BR>
<BR>
Chorus<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:12:58<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
At 07:19 PM 9/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Well, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (but less than a non-CAian<BR>
>might think :-).  Would it be too much hyperbole to say all<BR>
>CA place names begin with San, Santa, or Los?<BR>
<BR>
The vast majority of the Spanish named ones, yes.  North of San Francisco,<BR>
you stop seeing so many Spanish place names, since this is where they<BR>
stopped building missions.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:19:55 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
>From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>I think I have that one... the only time I was able to pick up women was<BR>
when I was drunk...err >tipsy....err..*very* relaxed. Any other time it was<BR>
as if I wasn't there!<BR>
<BR>
It seems to me that the development of alcoholic beverages is among the<BR>
earliest of accomplishments of agriculture and chemistry, and for good<BR>
reason.  To paraphrase a t-shirt I saw in a Berkeley window, "Beer:  Helping<BR>
average-looking people have sex for 5,000 years!"  I think that all of us<BR>
owe our very existence in some part to ancient brewers.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:19:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
><BR>
>    What about the White Glove from Mega-Traveller?  I would have to say<BR>
that it is canon.<BR>
<BR>
I don't remember any White Glove from MT, but it seems that it would not<BR>
have any effect on canon.  It's really only used at military and naval<BR>
inspections and at some formal dress events.<BR>
<BR>
The Vilani white glove (I've always thought of it as a vanilla colored glove<BR>
for some reason), from Vilani & Vargr, has controls and communications<BR>
devices, but is already canonical and does not disrupt the game setting any<BR>
more than commdots or other small commo stuff.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:19:56 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re:  Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
<BR>
>From: Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au><BR>
><BR>
>I'm wondering if the distinctive look of BD was a MT thing, which is when I<BR>
first recall seeing >it.<BR>
<BR>
Spinward Marches Campaign (one of the last CT adventures) has a picture of<BR>
Marines donning their distinctive helments.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:25:15 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
> >From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
> <BR>
> >I think I have that one... the only time I was able to pick <BR>
> up women was<BR>
> when I was drunk...err >tipsy....err..*very* relaxed. Any <BR>
> other time it was<BR>
> as if I wasn't there!<BR>
> <BR>
> It seems to me that the development of alcoholic beverages is <BR>
> among the<BR>
> earliest of accomplishments of agriculture and chemistry, and for good<BR>
> reason.  To paraphrase a t-shirt I saw in a Berkeley window, <BR>
> "Beer:  Helping<BR>
> average-looking people have sex for 5,000 years!"  I think <BR>
> that all of us<BR>
> owe our very existence in some part to ancient brewers.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Strangely, drinking enough alcohol can actually make you invisible in<BR>
Britain...those of us who saw the Jasper Carrott Sketch  'Invisibility<BR>
Potion' will know this one...Jasper 'totally smashed' on a London bus, the<BR>
other passengers doing their best to ignore him. Class. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:28:08 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: JTAS & Challenge index<BR>
<BR>
BTW,<BR>
 the JTAS reprints will have indexes.<BR>
<BR>
FFE 006 (April 2001)    Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society (1-12). <BR>
Includes Annic Nova, Victoria, Asteroids, Gazelle, Imperium, Imperial <BR>
Interstellar Scouts, Champa Starport, Broadsword, War, Planet-Building, <BR>
Striker, Merchant Prince (with Special Supplement 1). Includes an index of <BR>
all 24 JTAS issues. $30.<BR>
FFE 007 (June 2001) Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society (13-24). Includes <BR>
Hivers, Laws and Lawbreakers, Azun, Susag, Atmospheres (with Special <BR>
Supplement 2), Travelling without Jumping, Skyport Authority, Ways of Kuzu, <BR>
Vargr (with Special Supplement 3), Port to Port Jumping, Zhodani <BR>
Philosophies, Religion of the 2000 Worlds. Includes an index of all 24 JTAS <BR>
issues. $30.<BR>
<BR>
    <BR>
FFE 008 (October 2001)  Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society (25-36). <BR>
Includes Classic Traveller content originally in Challenge Magazine after it <BR>
absorbed JTAS. Includes an index of Traveller in Challenge. $30.00<BR>
This volume is in portrait/ upright format (8-1/2 x 11) to reflect the <BR>
original publishing format. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:35:05 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: JTAS & Challenge index<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> BTW,<BR>
>  the JTAS reprints will have indexes.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip FFE Reprint details><BR>
<BR>
Marc, you've made my day.<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:43:09 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:19 AM<BR>
<BR>
> I know metric, and did enough work with it at school that I have a<BR>
> "feel" for kilos as well as pounds. But I still tend to think in<BR>
> "english" units for a lot of everyday stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial units, surely? In England we use the metric system.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
I disagree, in England we use both metric and imperial. It all depends on<BR>
where and what you are dealing with. When ever I start to think I am safe to<BR>
use metric in a work place, I am reminded that imperial measurements a<BR>
required.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:45:41 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
<BR>
are you talking about the "conehead" helmets?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:53:55 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 7:35 PM<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 12 Sep 2000, at 1:57, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>> I am of a strange group in England. I was taught the metric system<BR>
>>> at school, but can work in inches, feet, yards and mile for<BR>
>>> distance but I can not tell you how many ounces are in a pound.<BR>
>><BR>
>> I know metric, and did enough work with it at school that I have a<BR>
>> "feel" for kilos as well as pounds. But I still tend to think in<BR>
>> "english" units for a lot of everyday stuff.<BR>
><BR>
> One effect of going to metric over here is that a lot of people my<BR>
> age use a mixture of units. Driving distances are in kilometres, but<BR>
> fuel consumption is often still in miles per gallon (if only becasue<BR>
> the offical L/100km is so dumb).<BR>
<BR>
Actually, from an online conversation with some folks in Europe, that's<BR>
apparently the way they have always done it on the continent.<BR>
<BR>
> Likewise it is common to give people's heights in feet and inches,<BR>
> but weights in kilogrammes.<BR>
<BR>
I remember tabbing it out in Wales. We would use Kilometres or Miles which<BR>
ever sounded the best,.. When Moral was finning we tended to use the systemm<BR>
that suited us well, if it were the distance to go required, the miles left<BR>
was given as file miles sounds better than 8 kilometers. It it was distance<BR>
covered then it was in kilmeteres given. At times when we had to be<BR>
realistic then Miles were given for distance covered. When counting away the<BR>
distance, it was done in kilometers as each time we knew we had covered just<BR>
one more click (kilometer), we knew we were one more click closer to camp.<BR>
It was god to be confused over this as it gave you something to think about<BR>
as you were counting down the clicks left back to camp.... in other words,<BR>
we chose which ever measurement, that suited us best at the time. This is<BR>
probably why we still use both units of measure. It is allways good to have<BR>
another option, and going to and from the two, one need never have to settle<BR>
with one unit of measure that disagrees with one..<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:32:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Actually the Americans have a slightly different system from Imperial.<BR>
><BR>
> Really? I didn't know that. How's it different? (Just out of curiousity.<BR>
> Don't bother typing an essay, anyone.)<BR>
<BR>
Off the top of my head, liquid meaure is notably different. The<BR>
Imperial pint/quart/gallon are all 5/4s as big as the US ones.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:29:28 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> I know metric, and did enough work with it at school that I have a<BR>
>> "feel" for kilos as well as pounds. But I still tend to think in<BR>
>> "english" units for a lot of everyday stuff.<BR>
><BR>
> Imperial units, surely? In England we use the metric system.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. The Imperial units are different in several important places,<BR>
such as the quart & gallon.<BR>
<BR>
The fact that England no longer uses "english" units is irrelevant,<BR>
that's what they are called.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:38:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: defense on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I'd personally suggest a basil sauce and serve it over a light salad. The<BR>
> advantage is that should you be unable to finish the leftovers make a<BR>
> wonderful sandwich filler for lunch the next day. A South African Chardonnay<BR>
> would be the tipple of choice to go with a Droyne-in-Basil salad.  <BR>
<BR>
Off in the corner a couple of Aslan are exchanging recipes for long pig...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:42:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm just wondering what you think about certain non-canon pieces of<BR>
> technology in Traveller games (GURPS: Traveller, to be specific).<BR>
><BR>
> 1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
<BR>
Real hard to justify. <BR>
<BR>
> 2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
<BR>
These are called "plasma guns" and "fusion guns". <BR>
<BR>
> 3) "Ultra-Tech" Melee weapons, such as vibroblades, monoswords, and to a<BR>
> lesser extent force swords<BR>
<BR>
Vibroblades aren't too out of line. Randall Garrett wrote an obscure SF<BR>
novel ("Unwise Child") that has both vibroblades (which are fairly<BR>
illegal), but also an equally illegal detector/countermeasure.<BR>
<BR>
The idea is that the vibroblades oscillate at radio frequencies, and<BR>
thus are weak transmitters. This signal can be detected if you are<BR>
within a few dozen meters. So you get a bit of warning when the gang<BR>
that's about to jump you switches on their blades.<BR>
<BR>
The countermeasure sends out a signal that interferes with the blade in<BR>
such a way as to cause it to fry the circuits. This usually winds up<BR>
with the guy holding the knife getting badly burned as the coil melts...<BR>
Which is why it's illegal. <eg><BR>
<BR>
Monoswords aren't really practical without a stasis field or<BR>
equivalent to stiffen the blade. And that opens up way too many cans of<BR>
worms.<BR>
<BR>
Force blades require force fields, which is another can of worms best<BR>
left unopened.<BR>
<BR>
> How many people have experimented with non-canon technology in their games,<BR>
> and how has it affected (adversly or not) the whole "feel" of the Traveller<BR>
> universe?  I have a personal penchant for shields, because I feel they are<BR>
> the most logical way to protect a ship against micrometeorites, dust<BR>
> particles, and radiation, even if they are completely sci-fi.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, any non-"magic" shield is going to use a *lot* of energy.<BR>
With energy use being proportional to how "hard" it is, and how much<BR>
volume it encloses. <BR>
<BR>
Protection against particles from dust size up to sand grains is easily<BR>
done with a few thin layers of foil, spaced a short distance apart. The<BR>
particle hits the foil and flashes into plasma. <BR>
<BR>
Larger particles are equivalent to anti-tank rounds on up to nuclear<BR>
weapons. Being able to shield against those is going to change the game<BR>
drasticlly. And given that the odds of running into a larger particle<BR>
are very, very low, you can ignore them anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Radiation in space is usuallly high energy particles. Anything that'll<BR>
shield against them will also protect against PAWS. Again, you don't<BR>
want to go there.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, the lower "flux density" (ie particles per area per<BR>
second) makes the use of simple mass shielding (ie put a few kilos per<BR>
square meter of mass between you and the radiation) quite simple.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:08:16 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/13/00 3:15:23 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  (an ice-cream to the first person<BR>
 >to name the author) <BR>
  >><BR>
Spider Robinson...:-). Heck; I used to LIVE on Long Island, and speculated <BR>
for years on what bars and roadhouses influenced him...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:11:13 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
David P. Summers writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (but less than a non-CAian<BR>
> might think :-).  Would it be too much hyperbole to say all<BR>
> CA place names begin with San, Santa, or Los?<BR>
<BR>
Berkeley, Oakland, Alameda, Albany, Emeryville, Hayward, El Cerrito, Richmond<BR>
(to name cities near me).<BR>
<BR>
Sacramento, Redding, Bishop (to name cities that are not part of an urban area<BR>
with one of those abbreviations).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:58:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:00:22<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >It isn't.  All California names have "San" or "Santa" in front<BR>
> >of them  :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> News to the inhabitants of Los Angeles and Los Gatos.  :)  But we do seem<BR>
> to have more saints than the Vatican.<BR>
<BR>
Or my favorite California placename, "Los Osos" ("The Bears").  Easy to<BR>
say, hard to tell when to stop. :)  (My second favorite is "Yreka", but<BR>
only because it sets up the beautifully palindromic "Yreka Bakery" there.) <BR>
<BR>
Actually, the stories behind California place names are fascinating (as is<BR>
true practically anywhere, in my experience.)  You can read the history<BR>
and directions of colonization (Spanish along the coast as far up as the<BR>
Bay Area, Mojave Indian in the southern interior, Russian along the north<BR>
coast, and so forth).  You can even trace the timing of the first Spanish<BR>
ship to survey the coast; they named landmarks after events in the<BR>
Catholic liturgical calendar on the day of discovery, so we ended up with<BR>
Point Concepcion (Feast of the Conception), Ano Nuevo (New Years Day),<BR>
Point Reyes (Feast of the Three Kings), and so forth. <BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  Pick a pattern for naming places on a world, and develop a<BR>
sentence or two of history to back a few of them.  Gives a real sense of<BR>
background depth.  Also, don't follow the pattern slavishly.  Having<BR>
Bakersfield and Irvine dropped in among the Spanish and Mojave names adds<BR>
its own texture, and these can be the most fun to explain, too.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:22:58 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
>>Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
>><BR>
>>Via electronic medium on 9/12/00 6:42 AM, mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk issued<BR>
>>forth:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> stealing dosh<BR>
>><BR>
>>What is "dosh"?<BR>
><BR>
>         Trav Trivia here:  I don't know if this was what was intended, but a<BR>
> looooong time ago ('80 or '81), Martian Metals called the tops of the<BR>
> cardboard backings to their blisterpacks of traveller miniatures (the part<BR>
> that had the Traveller logo) 'doshes' - these could be collected and<BR>
> redeemed for goodies.<BR>
<BR>
I think "dosh" = "money" (possibly from "A Clockwork Orange"?).<BR>
<BR>
However, it *also* is one of three made up words used in a famous<BR>
example of how you can have linguisticly valid but semanticly null<BR>
sentence:<BR>
<BR>
"The gostak distims the doshes."<BR>
<BR>
Q: What's a dosh? <BR>
A: Doshes are what gotasks distim.<BR>
<BR>
Q: What's a gostak?<BR>
A: Gostaks are what distims doshes.<BR>
<BR>
Q: What's distimming?<BR>
A: What gostaks do to doshes.<BR>
<BR>
All perfectly correct. And conveying absolutely *no* information.<BR>
<BR>
There's an old SF short story (from after the work that originated the<BR>
sentence "The gostaks distim the doshes.") about someone getting dumped<BR>
into a parallel world where that phrase is being argued about with<BR>
religious fervor. The protagonist gets out just as the war starts...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3036<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3037</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 13 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3037<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
California Dreaming<BR>
RE: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
Place Names<BR>
Re: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
RE: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re:  Naming patterns<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Naming patterns<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:35:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 15:43:13 +1000<BR>
>>From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
><BR>
>>Why was this invisibility required? <BR>
>>       a -  hiding from predators? <BR>
>>       b -  hiding from other hostile tribes?<BR>
><BR>
> c - hiding from Grandfather and his offspring...<BR>
><BR>
> I somehow think that the average Droyne's reaction to Yaskoydray would<BR>
> be similar to the average human's reaction to Ditzie...<BR>
<BR>
You meam falling to their knees and chanting "We're not worthy" while<BR>
touching their heads to the ground? :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:38:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 7:57 AM +1000 9/13/00, Katharine Whitchurch wrote:<BR>
>>(*) The Weasel Gun is produced by Famile Spofulum under appropriate licences<BR>
>>from the Sayat Concordance's SAY-BOOM.<BR>
><BR>
> The made me thing of the GURPS Zombie Gerbil gun.*  What<BR>
> Ditzie really needs is to find a way into a dimension with magic<BR>
> and tech for _real_ fun.<BR>
<BR>
If I ever run a GURPS IOU campaign, I think I'll have Ditzie be a<BR>
student at WUSE. This could be where she picked up her attitude about<BR>
lawyers (who are all in COUP). She probably spent most of her time in<BR>
the Department of Physics, but probably took some classes from the<BR>
Department of Miltary Science & Cost Overruns, and a few in the<BR>
Department of Recreational Biochemistry (which explains the little<BR>
pills).<BR>
<BR>
Any ideas where a good place to place IOU in the Traveller Universe<BR>
might be? It'd have to be outside the Imperium, and not too close to<BR>
the Zhodani. I think it shouldn't be near the K'kree or Hivers.<BR>
Probably not *too* far from the Spinward Marches.<BR>
<BR>
Areas that come to mind:<BR>
<BR>
Between the Imperium and the Vargr extents.<BR>
Between the Imperium, Solomani and Aslan.<BR>
<BR>
ps. Obviously, Warehouse 23 belong to IOU... <eg><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:30:58 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 08:49 PM 9/12/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
>><highly  'tongue in cheek'><BR>
><BR>
>>You mean over in Norway? That's what lies over the Pennines, isn't it. My<BR>
>>dad used to scare me with tales of a legendary place called Yorkshire, where<BR>
>>all manner of demons ate babies and bonked sheep.<BR>
><BR>
> Ye Gods, sounds like what I, as a young Northern Californian, was told<BR>
> about the blasted wasteland that is Southern California, where they<BR>
> actually cheer for the Dodgers in *public*!<BR>
<BR>
Huh? When I was a kid, the Dodgers were in Brooklyn. And California<BR>
wasn't a fit subject for polite conversation.<BR>
<BR>
I actually visited Brookyln while the Dodgers were still there. But,<BR>
being only 4 at the time, I can't recall if I ever saw them play. I<BR>
*do* recall endless stairs in the Statue of Leberty and in the<BR>
Washington Monument (we visited Washington, DC too). <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:21:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
Question for the list.<BR>
<BR>
I am currently running a game in the rim.  Given the high population density<BR>
and lack of grazing land on some worlds (Vantage/CAPELLA in this case), it<BR>
would seem that raising animals for meat would not be very economically<BR>
feasable.  What are the list members thought on the prevelance of<BR>
vegetarianism in such high tech, space starved societies.  Would<BR>
vegetarianism become the norm? Are meat eaters viewed the way current<BR>
societies view smokers?  What about geneered meat grown in tanks?<BR>
<BR>
Currently, I am operating on the thought that the past ecomonic necessity of<BR>
a non-meat diet has led to a cultural bias against meat eating (it what<BR>
uncivilized, low-tech barbarians do).  Meat has been replaced by things like<BR>
TVP (texturized vegetable protein) and 'brand name' foods that are totally<BR>
laboratory/factory produced, which may have a meat-like basis, don't carry<BR>
the negative of ever having been alive.  They actually taste better as well,<BR>
thanks to atificial taste auguments.<BR>
<BR>
"try Ambrosia plus, the new taste sensation from the people who brought you<BR>
Ambrosia"<BR>
<BR>
Thoughts.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Tod Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
- --<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:22:05 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 22:34:47 -0700<BR>
> From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
> <BR>
> At 9:26 PM -0700 9/12/00, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> >  > Well, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (but less than a non-CAian<BR>
> >  > might think :-).  Would it be too much hyperbole to say all<BR>
> >  > CA place names begin with San, Santa, or Los?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Redding? Ventura? Hollywood? Pasadena? Beverly Hills?<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't think those places really exist :-)<BR>
<BR>
If Bev Hills didn't exist, my commute would be a couple of miles shorter.<BR>
Take out West Hollywood as well, and I'd be 20 minutes from work. :)<BR>
<BR>
More great California placenames that don't start with Los/San/Santa:<BR>
Twentynine Palms, Three Rocks, Dun Movin, Harmony, Saratoga, Campbell,<BR>
Sunnyvale, Fremont, Studio City, Burbank, Indio, Joshua Tree, Truckee,<BR>
Sacramento, Monterey, Salinas, Cambria, Carmel, Carpinteria, Claremont,<BR>
Montclair (these two are adjacent), Upland, Newport Beach, Avalon, Malibu,<BR>
Port Hueneme, Oxnard, Lompoc...<BR>
<BR>
Point made? :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:25:36 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
<BR>
Leonard said: <BR>
<BR>
> If I ever run a GURPS IOU campaign, I think I'll have Ditzie be a<BR>
> student at WUSE. This could be where she picked up her attitude about<BR>
> lawyers (who are all in COUP). She probably spent most of her time in<BR>
> the Department of Physics, but probably took some classes from the<BR>
> Department of Miltary Science & Cost Overruns, and a few in the<BR>
> Department of Recreational Biochemistry (which explains the little<BR>
> pills).<BR>
<BR>
I think there's a group actually running an IOU campaign on FOGies, using<BR>
WebRPG. I tend not to use realtime web roleplaying, 'cause of the timezones<BR>
(and the fact that I have to work, boo!)<BR>
<BR>
> Any ideas where a good place to place IOU in the Traveller Universe<BR>
> might be? It'd have to be outside the Imperium, and not too close to<BR>
> the Zhodani. I think it shouldn't be near the K'kree or Hivers.<BR>
> Probably not *too* far from the Spinward Marches.<BR>
> <BR>
> Areas that come to mind:<BR>
> <BR>
> Between the Imperium and the Vargr extents.<BR>
> Between the Imperium, Solomani and Aslan.<BR>
<BR>
How about Arnorac in Reft? It's an Imperial Client State, practically<BR>
impossible to get to without at least Jump-6 or magic, and you have to go<BR>
through at least 1 Red Zone. Should keep the little bas...ah...darlings out<BR>
of mischief. :)<BR>
 <BR>
> ps. Obviously, Warehouse 23 belong to IOU... <eg><BR>
<BR>
No, not owned, the Secret Masters would never allow THAT, but maybe they<BR>
have a reseach fellowship, staff exchange schemes and maybe a day-release<BR>
program.<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:37:42 -0400<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
Well, back here in the Montreal region of Quebec, we have a couple of cute<BR>
ones.  Pierrefonds (where my fiance hails from) translates to english as<BR>
Rock Bottom, and especially delightful is Lachine.<BR>
<BR>
Y'see, it appears that when Cartier (or whoever it was that landed there)<BR>
named it, he honestly thought he was in China (La Chine is french for China,<BR>
natch).<BR>
<BR>
The miracles of pre-electronic navigation...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn<BR>
coburn@sympatico.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:35:26 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
<BR>
I got a tasmanian devil tie, does that count?<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Paul Harris" <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 1:29 AM<BR>
Subject: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Are there any other Tasmanian TML members on the list?<BR>
<BR>
Harry<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:36:37 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 12:49 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was: Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
> >Subject: Re: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Via electronic medium on 9/12/00 6:42 AM, mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
issued<BR>
> >forth:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> stealing dosh<BR>
> ><BR>
> >What is "dosh"?<BR>
><BR>
> Trav Trivia here:  I don't know if this was what was intended, but a<BR>
> looooong time ago ('80 or '81), Martian Metals called the tops of the<BR>
> cardboard backings to their blisterpacks of traveller miniatures (the part<BR>
> that had the Traveller logo) 'doshes' - these could be collected and<BR>
> redeemed for goodies.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
In Oz, "dosh" is pre-70's slang for money... a Pommy term I believe.  I say<BR>
"pre-70's" because I recall hearing my oldies use the term often, and their<BR>
friends.  Then in the 70's, it simply seemed to fade away, but decimal<BR>
currency had become "normal" by then (being intro'ed about '67-ish?), so<BR>
perhaps it's origins lay in pounds, shillings, and pence of the pre-decimal<BR>
days??<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
Let's go and splosh some dosh......<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:36:52 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Question for the list.<BR>
> <BR>
> I am currently running a game in the rim.  Given the high <BR>
> population density<BR>
> and lack of grazing land on some worlds (Vantage/CAPELLA in <BR>
> this case), it<BR>
> would seem that raising animals for meat would not be very <BR>
> economically<BR>
> feasable. <BR>
<BR>
Only land-dwelling herd animals. Why not cetaceans? Or if that's<BR>
unpalatable, fish? <BR>
<BR>
> What are the list members thought on the prevelance of<BR>
> vegetarianism in such high tech, space starved societies.  Would<BR>
> vegetarianism become the norm? Are meat eaters viewed the way current<BR>
> societies view smokers?  What about geneered meat grown in tanks?<BR>
<BR>
With a careful choice of diet there's no reason vegetarianism wouldn't work.<BR>
A grazing animal uses a lot more land and plant material than you'd use<BR>
growing crops. On the subject of crop farming, lets not overlook kelp and<BR>
algae. <BR>
Protein could be  made up by and increase in consumption of pulses and bean,<BR>
by gengineering existing crops to produce boosted protein levels, by<BR>
artificial supplemants. (I leave the in-depth discussion of the biochemistry<BR>
to Leonard, who's better at this stuff than I am)<BR>
 <BR>
> Currently, I am operating on the thought that the past <BR>
> ecomonic necessity of<BR>
> a non-meat diet has led to a cultural bias against meat <BR>
> eating (it what<BR>
> uncivilized, low-tech barbarians do). <BR>
<BR>
Even if it's not necessary, assuming the stuff above works, it's a neat<BR>
idea. I'm sure the K'kree would approve.<BR>
<BR>
> Meat has been replaced <BR>
> by things like<BR>
> TVP (texturized vegetable protein) and 'brand name' foods <BR>
> that are totally<BR>
> laboratory/factory produced, which may have a meat-like <BR>
> basis, don't carry<BR>
> the negative of ever having been alive.  They actually taste <BR>
> better as well,<BR>
> thanks to atificial taste auguments.<BR>
> <BR>
> "try Ambrosia plus, the new taste sensation from the people <BR>
> who brought you<BR>
> Ambrosia"<BR>
<BR>
I shall make no mention of a certain 1973 Sci-Fi film, featuring Charlton<BR>
Heston , Leigh Taylor-Young , Chuck Connors , Edward G. Robinson and Dick<BR>
Van Patten. I think we all know which one. :)<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:42:35 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
>Subject: Naming patterns<BR>
><BR>
>> Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:00:22<BR>
>> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>> <BR>
>> >It isn't.  All California names have "San" or "Santa" in front<BR>
>> >of them  :-)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> News to the inhabitants of Los Angeles and Los Gatos.  :)  But we do<BR>
>>seem<BR>
>> to have more saints than the Vatican.<BR>
><BR>
>Or my favorite California placename, "Los Osos" ("The Bears").  Easy to<BR>
>say, hard to tell when to stop. :) <BR>
<BR>
	I love the redundantly-named "The La Brea Tar Pits" - since 'La<BR>
Brea' is 'the tar' in Spanish, the literal translation is "The The Tar Tar<BR>
Pits"<BR>
	In addition to the Spanish and Russian names, I live in a city<BR>
settled by Germans - a little town on the Ana river:  Anaheim.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- --------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just pay me; they don't even bother trying to tell me what<BR>
to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:42 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <003401c01da7$01d8c020$0100007f@localdomain><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
In cultured society, the very thought of something ORGANIC sends the <BR>
judders through people... "such dirty stuff, you know, I mean there could <BR>
be anything in it, my dear!"<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps there is speculation that other creatures may be sentient, and it <BR>
would never do to feast on a sentient being, now would it? Or maybe they <BR>
have seen the effects of uplift on near-sentient races and think it would <BR>
be more fun to talk with whatever animals they still have than eat them.<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:48:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
Cows, pigs, chickens, and most other meat animals, convert inedible<BR>
(from a human perspective) foods to edible ones.  Since human beings<BR>
cannot eat grass or certain leaves (as well as offal, in the case of<BR>
chickens and pigs), animals are used to convert those products into<BR>
something human beings can eat; I do not see this changing even on<BR>
high-tech, high-pop worlds.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:<BR>
> Question for the list.<BR>
> <BR>
> I am currently running a game in the rim.  Given the high population<BR>
> density<BR>
> and lack of grazing land on some worlds (Vantage/CAPELLA in this<BR>
> case), it<BR>
> would seem that raising animals for meat would not be very<BR>
> economically<BR>
> feasable.  What are the list members thought on the prevelance of<BR>
> vegetarianism in such high tech, space starved societies.  Would<BR>
> vegetarianism become the norm? Are meat eaters viewed the way current<BR>
> societies view smokers?  What about geneered meat grown in tanks?<BR>
> <BR>
> Currently, I am operating on the thought that the past ecomonic<BR>
> necessity of<BR>
> a non-meat diet has led to a cultural bias against meat eating (it<BR>
> what<BR>
> uncivilized, low-tech barbarians do).  Meat has been replaced by<BR>
> things like<BR>
> TVP (texturized vegetable protein) and 'brand name' foods that are<BR>
> totally<BR>
> laboratory/factory produced, which may have a meat-like basis, don't<BR>
> carry<BR>
> the negative of ever having been alive.  They actually taste better<BR>
> as well,<BR>
> thanks to atificial taste auguments.<BR>
> <BR>
> "try Ambrosia plus, the new taste sensation from the people who<BR>
> brought you<BR>
> Ambrosia"<BR>
> <BR>
> Thoughts.<BR>
> <BR>
> Tod<BR>
> <BR>
> --<BR>
> Tod Glenn<BR>
> webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
> --<BR>
> http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
> http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
> http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
> http://www.solsec.org<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:50:11 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>>><BR>
>>>What is "dosh"?<BR>
>><BR>
<snip again><BR>
><BR>
>I think "dosh" = "money" (possibly from "A Clockwork Orange"?).<BR>
<BR>
	Don't think it was from "A Clockwork Orange."  The old drunk used<BR>
"Cotter" on two occasions  while panhandling ("...can you spare me some<BR>
cotter, me brother?"), and Alex refers to "Pretty Polly" once or twice<BR>
("...if you want pretty polly, you taaake it")<BR>
	Who, me?  A Kubric fan?  Naaaa.....  ;o)<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- -------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:29:45 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
At 10:21 AM 9/13/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>Question for the list.<BR>
><BR>
>I am currently running a game in the rim.  Given the high population density<BR>
>and lack of grazing land on some worlds (Vantage/CAPELLA in this case), it<BR>
>would seem that raising animals for meat would not be very economically<BR>
>feasable.  What are the list members thought on the prevelance of<BR>
>vegetarianism in such high tech, space starved societies.  Would<BR>
>vegetarianism become the norm? Are meat eaters viewed the way current<BR>
>societies view smokers?  What about geneered meat grown in tanks?<BR>
<BR>
The big-honking starships (THOUSAND METER diameter REALLY HAPPY FUN BALLS)<BR>
in H. Beam Piper's future history stories (SPACE VIKING, etc.) had large<BR>
spaces dedicated to hydroponics and carniculture vats. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Currently, I am operating on the thought that the past ecomonic necessity of<BR>
>a non-meat diet has led to a cultural bias against meat eating (it what<BR>
>uncivilized, low-tech barbarians do).  Meat has been replaced by things like<BR>
>TVP (texturized vegetable protein) and 'brand name' foods that are totally<BR>
>laboratory/factory produced, which may have a meat-like basis, don't carry<BR>
>the negative of ever having been alive.  They actually taste better as well,<BR>
>thanks to atificial taste auguments.<BR>
><BR>
>"try Ambrosia plus, the new taste sensation from the people who brought you<BR>
>Ambrosia"<BR>
<BR>
Read the story in high school. Won't mention the author's name or the<BR>
invention he declined to patent.<BR>
<BR>
>Thoughts.<BR>
<BR>
Just think how much fun you're going to have when the authorities find out<BR>
what's really in Ambrosia Plus.<BR>
<BR>
Or...<BR>
<BR>
"Hmmm... Soylent Green."<BR>
<BR>
- --Homer Simpson.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------[IMTU]-----------------------------<BR>
Held within the pressure dome, a-top Olympus Mons.<BR>
I taste my bitter triumph, as the mad assembly-man.<BR>
Nevermore shall I return, escape these caves of vice!<BR>
For I have used tax revenue, to court the vote of parasites.<BR>
<BR>
- -- Author Unknown, Cultural Archives, University of Freya<BR>
- ------------------------[IMTU]------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:53:08 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
>Claremont,<BR>
>Montclair (these two are adjacent), <BR>
<BR>
Claremont (where I went to school) faces Montclair across the LA-San Bernardino county line, which is why when Thomas Pynchon wrote his novel _The Crying of Lot 49_ about Claremont* he renamed it San Narciso (as in Narcissus).<BR>
<BR>
Other California names that shouldn't be forgotten: Azusa (everything from A to Z in the USA), Tarzana, and Zzyyxx City (not sure if it's actually a town, but it's an exit on the interstate between LA and Las Vegas).<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
*Trying to convince people that this is true is a famous pastime of the Pomona College English department (see the San Narciso Community College Thomas Pynchon web page for further info <www.pynchon.pomona.edu>)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:56:47 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Cows, pigs, chickens, and most other meat animals, convert inedible<BR>
> (from a human perspective) foods to edible ones.  Since human beings<BR>
> cannot eat grass or certain leaves (as well as offal, in the case of<BR>
> chickens and pigs), animals are used to convert those products into<BR>
> something human beings can eat; I do not see this changing even on<BR>
> high-tech, high-pop worlds.<BR>
<BR>
Why grow non-digestable foods? On a world where space fopr ag is at a<BR>
premium, growing non-immediately useful foods is a waste of resources;<BR>
grow something you can eat. What you can't eat makes biomass for the<BR>
reactors, making plastics feedstock, gas for energy, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Growing animals for food takes up a vast amount of space, compared to<BR>
growing it in vats.<BR>
<BR>
If you can make textured vegetable protein that tastes good, why go to<BR>
the hassle of growing whole animals. After all, we can't eat the bulk of<BR>
the animal, either.<BR>
<BR>
Hightech, hipop will be tvp or yeast glop, maybe with carniculture meat,<BR>
but even that'll be expensive.<BR>
<BR>
Imported foodstuffs will likely be quite valuable on these planets,<BR>
unless _everyone's_ so poor they can't afford it.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:57:42 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Cows, pigs, chickens, and most other meat animals, convert inedible<BR>
> (from a human perspective) foods to edible ones.  Since human beings<BR>
> cannot eat grass or certain leaves (as well as offal, in the case of<BR>
> chickens and pigs), animals are used to convert those products into<BR>
> something human beings can eat; I do not see this changing even on<BR>
> high-tech, high-pop worlds.<BR>
<BR>
If room to grow things is at a premium, you wouldn't be growing grass or<BR>
inedible leaves in the first place.  You'd feed more people by using that<BR>
land to grow edible crops.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:07:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> > I am currently running a game in the rim.  Given the high<BR>
> > population density<BR>
> > and lack of grazing land on some worlds (Vantage/CAPELLA in<BR>
> > this case), it<BR>
> > would seem that raising animals for meat would not be very<BR>
> > economically<BR>
> > feasable.<BR>
><BR>
> Only land-dwelling herd animals. Why not cetaceans? Or if that's<BR>
> unpalatable, fish?<BR>
<BR>
In the case of vantage, sea level is a dense atmosphere, and H&E insists<BR>
that the surface of vantage is frozen.  That doesn't exclude the possibility<BR>
of fish ponds, but how efficient is this?  An in a society where cetaceans<BR>
have been uplifted, will anyone be eating them? Why not also eat<BR>
intellectually stunted humans?!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:07:18 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
Rod Basler wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> 	I love the redundantly-named "The La Brea Tar Pits" - since 'La<BR>
> Brea' is 'the tar' in Spanish, the literal translation is "The The Tar Tar<BR>
> Pits"<BR>
> 	In addition to the Spanish and Russian names, I live in a city<BR>
> settled by Germans - a little town on the Ana river:  Anaheim.<BR>
> <BR>
Somewhere in England, one finds Torpenhow Hill. Tor, Pen, and How all<BR>
mean hill, in (I think, and in no particular order), Cornish, Welsh, and<BR>
something else. Thus "hill hill hill hill".<BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:09:36 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> In cultured society, the very thought of something ORGANIC sends the<BR>
> judders through people... "such dirty stuff, you know, I mean there could<BR>
> be anything in it, my dear!"<BR>
<BR>
Not to mention the logical extension of current animal rights type thinking.<BR>
It's a living creature, after all.  What next?  Cannibalism?  For our rim<BR>
heros that's dangerously Vilani style thinking.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:11:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> >"try Ambrosia plus, the new taste sensation from the people who brought<BR>
you<BR>
> >Ambrosia"<BR>
><BR>
> Read the story in high school. Won't mention the author's name or the<BR>
> invention he declined to patent.<BR>
><BR>
Can't remember the name of the story myself.  Care to jostle my memory?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3037<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3038</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/13/00 12:37:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 13 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3038<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: High Tech Melee weapons: was: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
Re: Naming patterns<BR>
Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
IOU in Traveller<BR>
Undead Ammo of the 3rd Imperium (was Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?)<BR>
Re: Naming Patterns<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
RE: Naming Patterns<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Diplomacy<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Slightly off topic filk...<BR>
Re: Undead Ammo of the 3rd Imperium (was Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?)<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:34:22 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Melee weapons: was: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
> Well, there is the Electrostatic Armor (ESA) detailed in Fire, Fusion &<BR>
> Steel (TNE version).<BR>
> I'd have to play around with the numbers to see if it could be made man<BR>
> portable.<BR>
>  From what I remember, the power supply would be the real pest.<BR>
<BR>
Nah, I tried that for the last Nebula contest (Imperial Marine Battledress<BR>
under FFS1). It's just too heavy to be worthwhile. My intention was to have<BR>
one specialist 'screen trooper' whose ESA pack would generate a small<BR>
screen which would cover the squad from HEAP warheads - one of the major<BR>
low-tech BD killers - and plasma shots. AV 21 winds up requiring 600kg of<BR>
ESA gear, plus a 3MW input if you wanted to fire it once a second. And I<BR>
was hoping for closer to AV50.<BR>
<BR>
The same goes for reactive armour - battledress has a horribly high surface<BR>
area for its volume, even if you only ERA the front.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:37:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
> > >Redding? Ventura? Hollywood? Pasadena? Beverly Hills?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I don't think those places really exist :-)<BR>
><BR>
> (David is, of course, immediately attacked by a Ventura Of Unusual Size,<BR>
> namely the Governor of Minnesota.)<BR>
<BR>
Not a splort, but only because I didn't have anything in my mouth.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:13:54 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Heaven & Earth Mac Port<BR>
<BR>
> I disagree, in England we use both metric and imperial. It all depends on<BR>
> where and what you are dealing with. When ever I start to think I am safe<BR>
to<BR>
> use metric in a work place, I am reminded that imperial measurements a<BR>
> required.<BR>
<BR>
I suppose to be truthful I've had to use knots, pounds and feet at work<BR>
before.<BR>
<BR>
At least for the majority of design stuff we get to use metric.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:14:10 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
> > 2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
> These are called "plasma guns" and "fusion guns".<BR>
<BR>
Aren't plasma and fusion guns personal *energy* weapons?<BR>
<BR>
The difference between energy and particle weapons seems mainly to be that<BR>
nearly all of the damage of a particle accelerator is from kinetic energy,<BR>
whereas a significant portion of an energy weapon's damage arises from the<BR>
high temperature of the plasma/fusion bolt.<BR>
<BR>
There have been a few personal PAWs built. I've seen one or two by other<BR>
people, and I designed one myself for the battledress Nebula contest. Under<BR>
FFS they're feasible at TL-15, they're just big, heavy and short ranged.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:12:29 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: William Molendyk <wmolendyk@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
- --- Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:<BR>
> Question for the list.<BR>
> <BR>
> snip <<BR>
> What are the list members thought on the prevelance<BR>
> of vegetarianism in such high tech, space starved <BR>
> societies.  Would vegetarianism become the norm? Are<BR>
> meat eaters viewed the way current societies view<BR>
> smokers?  What about geneered meat grown in tanks?<BR>
> snip <<BR>
<BR>
If the only food available was some sort of vat grown<BR>
protein, and meat were not available, the people would<BR>
be a kind of vegetarian be default. Meat might be<BR>
thought of as an imported delicacy. Tank grown meat<BR>
may carry no social stigma but meat taken from an<BR>
animal may carry that 'barbaric' taint.<BR>
<BR>
My favorite 'real food alternatives' from various game<BR>
systems include Kibble and SCOP (Single Celled Organic<BR>
Protein) from Cyberpunk 2020, and Hot Fun and Cold Fun<BR>
from PARANOIA. Also, let us not forget the science<BR>
fiction classic SOYLENT GREEN.<BR>
<BR>
   William Molendyk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 00:15:34 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
At 17:30 -0400 12/9/00, "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:<BR>
>    Oh, my god, there are two of them.  Doug & Craig are bothers, that is<BR>
>the 3rd of 7 signs that the world is ending.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think they are 'bothers' at all. Both post quite entertaining <BR>
and thoughtful posts.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:25:55 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
> I love the redundantly-named "The La Brea Tar Pits" - since 'La<BR>
> Brea' is 'the tar' in Spanish, the literal translation is "The The Tar<BR>
Tar<BR>
> Pits"<BR>
<BR>
There's a hill somewhere in the UK (the Pennines?) called Torpenhow Hill.<BR>
Or, translating tor, pen and how from their respective dialects into<BR>
English, Hill hill hill Hill.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
(And all I need to know, I learned from Unseen University Challenge - the<BR>
Discworld quizbook.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:20:35 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Some of you may know that the UK is currently facing a total lock <BR>
down on fuel availability thanks to a coalition of farmers and <BR>
truckers blockading the oil refineries and distribution depots. I'm <BR>
not going to mention the arguments for or against this to avoid any <BR>
potential flames here but....<BR>
<BR>
Since Monday, I have not been able to get any fuel for my car - my <BR>
local refinery is the UK's largest, and was hit first. I'm fortunate <BR>
and I can walk to work, unlike many of my colleagues, some of whom <BR>
live 40 miles away. (Perhaps that is unfortunate).<BR>
<BR>
After 5 days, the disruption is being to bite. People aren't getting <BR>
to work. Businesses can't run vehicles. The supply chain is starting <BR>
to collapse - maybe companies have fuel, butt heir staff can't get <BR>
there because they can't get fuel for their private vehicles. Two <BR>
days ago, the government took action and got an emergency order from <BR>
the Privy Council, approved by the Queen. With this they have legally <BR>
ordered the oil companies to supply, and given a list of priorities <BR>
for stations and emergency services. But 24 hours later there is only <BR>
a trickle of fuel flowing (<10% usual and the gas stations are out).<BR>
<BR>
As a result, food is starting to run out at supermarkets and shops as <BR>
a combination of panic buying and lack of deliveries bites. Hospitals <BR>
are cancelling non-emergency work and have been ordered to be ready <BR>
to switch to emergency treatment only. Refuse collection is failing <BR>
as the trucks can't move, and response by the police to crime is <BR>
being prioritised. Many businesses are admitting that in the next day <BR>
or so they will need to shut down, or ask workers to take holidays. <BR>
Some are preparing to lay people off.  I know that some bigger <BR>
companies are considering implementing Y2K measures.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway - how does this relate to Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
I think it gives a very real example of how a technologically <BR>
advanced, modern, industrialised state starts to collapse when trade <BR>
runs dry. Something that illustrates the situation in Hard Times when <BR>
a world could not feed itself or survive without trade. Slowly, <BR>
society starts to slide.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
PS if you want to know a bit more about the situation go to the news <BR>
link at http://www.bbc.co.uk/  It's all about tax.<BR>
<BR>
- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------<BR>
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion<BR>
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.<BR>
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -<BR>
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's<BR>
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:29:46 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: IOU in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Just at the edge of the Vargr extents and the Spinward Marches fer sure.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
It was blasphemous, it was sacrilegious, and it was a little bit too much fun.<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:32:37 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "William 'Commander X' Prankard" <cmdrx@ao.net><BR>
Subject: Undead Ammo of the 3rd Imperium (was Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?)<BR>
<BR>
>> *A Zombie Gerbil gun was made up shortly after Vehicles 2 came<BR>
>> out.  It is a laser that takes stream of gerbils, drains their<BR>
>> life force for energy to power the laser, cast the Zombie spell on<BR>
them,<BR>
>> and then ejects them toward the enemy.<BR>
<BR>
>I'd like to note that a Ghoul Gerbil Gun* would be better, as it would<BR>
>paralyse targets in addition to causing impact damage.<BR>
<BR>
>Nick<BR>
>*A high tech variant of my LRP group's Ghoul Cat On A Stick terror<BR>
weapon.<BR>
>Or comedy weapon. It's largely an individual decision.<BR>
<BR>
How about the Hypervelocity Undead Fin Stablized Discarding-Sabot Penguin<BR>
from Gridlore?<BR>
Penguins are well known for their armour peircing ability, make them<BR>
undead for necrolicious fun for everyone!<BR>
<BR>
Do not taunt Happy Fun Penguin...<BR>
<BR>
What's next? Vampiric African Swallows from X-TEK? Denebian Tree Oxen<BR>
Liches from SuSAG?<BR>
Okay this has gotten far too silly! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
\\    //  Commander X<BR>
 \\  //   CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC<BR>
  T E K   Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research<BR>
 //  \\   http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek<BR>
//    \\  0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:12:14 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Naming Patterns<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:58:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
> From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
> Subject: Naming patterns<BR>
> <BR>
> Or my favorite California placename, "Los Osos" ("The Bears").  Easy to<BR>
> say, hard to tell when to stop. :)  (My second favorite is "Yreka", but<BR>
> only because it sets up the beautifully palindromic "Yreka Bakery" there.) <BR>
<BR>
My personal favorite is Parumph. I was quite surprised to discover that<BR>
the "Parumphian People's Militia" at the National Training Center had any<BR>
connection with reality.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:39:46 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I think it gives a very real example of how a technologically<BR>
> advanced, modern, industrialised state starts to collapse when trade<BR>
> runs dry. Something that illustrates the situation in Hard Times when<BR>
> a world could not feed itself or survive without trade. Slowly,<BR>
> society starts to slide.<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Here in the US, there an average of 3 days supply of food in most major<BR>
cities.  Cut off distribution, and it will get ugly.  This is undoubtably<BR>
true of many high-tech worlds as well, unless they have experienced some<BR>
sort of disaster previously that has forced the government to make<BR>
preparations.  Of course, if the government IS the problem...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:54:41 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
 <BR>
> Here in the US, there an average of 3 days supply of food in most major<BR>
> cities.  Cut off distribution, and it will get ugly.  This is undoubtably<BR>
> true of many high-tech worlds as well, unless they have experienced some<BR>
> sort of disaster previously that has forced the government to make<BR>
> preparations.  Of course, if the government IS the problem...<BR>
<BR>
Including normal in-home reserves, it's probably more like 7-10 days.  Some<BR>
areas which are prone to natural disasters try to encourage more storage<BR>
(for example, California tries to encourage earthquake preparations) but<BR>
I don't think any of them have been hugely successful.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:56:44 -0500<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <Danny.Moody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Naming Patterns<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Christopher Thrash [mailto:thrash@io.com]<BR>
> My personal favorite is Parumph. I was quite surprised to <BR>
> discover that<BR>
> the "Parumphian People's Militia" at the National Training <BR>
> Center had any<BR>
> connection with reality.<BR>
<BR>
Parumph is in Nevada - right down the road from Area 51.  I have plans for my players in my upcoming Delta Green game.<BR>
<BR>
Parumph is also the home of Art Bell - that (former) host of a late-night talk show about strange and mysterious things that happen (or don't).  UFOs, aliens, immortality, time-travel, crop circles, etc were all valid topics on that show.  Made great fodder for gaming.<BR>
<BR>
I was always tempted to call up and start talking about Yaskodray and the Church of the Chosen Ones...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
vargr1                                                   UPP-8D9B85<BR>
Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ                vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>
"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."      dmoody@bridge*com<BR>
- --------------------------- Molon Labe! ---------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:28:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> OB-Trav: A TL9 planet is currently experience a fuel crisis, brought about<BR>
> by the high duty on LH2 refining(metallic impurities in the hydrosphere make<BR>
> wilderness refueling impossible, and there is no gas giant in-system).<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, won't work. as long as there's water, it doesn't *matter* what<BR>
the impurities are. Run an electric current thru it and you'll get<BR>
hydrogen (and oxygen). The few metals that'll come off *before*<BR>
hydrogen does are silver, gold and copper. All of which are worth<BR>
extracting on their own. <BR>
<BR>
So, the *only* reason hydrogen can be more than a bit more expensive<BR>
than usual is if the hydro percentage on planet is *zero*. That is,<BR>
there's only enough water on world for "life support" uses.<BR>
<BR>
If there's even a 1% hydro, there's more than enough water to make<BR>
fuel, and as I note above, contaminants are merely inconvenient. <BR>
<BR>
> The local<BR>
> government, a charismatic dictatorship ;) , has requested that processed<BR>
> hydrogen be brought in from a nearby system (no, it doesn't make economic<BR>
> sense).<BR>
<BR>
Neither does having local LH2 be so hideously expensive *unless* the<BR>
planet is a waterless rockball.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 11:37:26 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 7:00 PM -0700 9/12/00, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
>>At 02:14 PM 9/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>  >It isn't.  All California names have "San" or "Santa" in front<BR>
>>  >of them  :-)<BR>
>><BR>
>>News to the inhabitants of Los Angeles and Los Gatos.  :)  But we do seem<BR>
>>to have more saints than the Vatican.<BR>
><BR>
> Well, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (but less than a non-CAian<BR>
> might think :-).  Would it be too much hyperbole to say all<BR>
> CA place names begin with San, Santa, or Los?<BR>
<BR>
Sacramento, Alameda, Long Beach, Venice, Culver City, Hollywood...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:01:07 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:53:08 -0400<BR>
> From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
> <BR>
> Claremont (where I went to school) faces Montclair across the LA-San<BR>
> Bernardino county line, which is why when Thomas Pynchon wrote his novel<BR>
> _The Crying of Lot 49_ about Claremont* he renamed it San Narciso (as in<BR>
> Narcissus). <BR>
<BR>
In support of this theory, it should be noted that a huge General Dynamics<BR>
plant used to be located in Pomona, next door to Claremont.  I worked<BR>
there for a few years.  The parody name Pynchon used for his perpetually<BR>
shafted defense contractor was "Yoyodyne".  (Now, for bonus points, name a<BR>
film appearance of the name "Yoyodyne".)<BR>
<BR>
> Other California names that shouldn't be forgotten: Azusa (everything<BR>
> from A to Z in the USA), Tarzana, and Zzyyxx City (not sure if it's<BR>
> actually a town, but it's an exit on the interstate between LA and Las<BR>
> Vegas). <BR>
<BR>
It still exists.  It was one of a series of 26 watering stations on the<BR>
original rail line across the Mojave, named starting with the letters of<BR>
the alphabet, though not in spatial order (it was order of construction,<BR>
instead).  Amboy, Baker, Cadiz, and Dagget are other surviving towns in<BR>
this set. <BR>
<BR>
> *Trying to convince people that this is true is a famous pastime of the<BR>
> Pomona College English department (see the San Narciso Community College<BR>
> Thomas Pynchon web page for further info <www.pynchon.pomona.edu>) <BR>
<BR>
I can't reach that server.  Guess that's what happens when you let an<BR>
English department run a website. :)   [I'm a Mudder, in case that wasn't<BR>
enough of a clue.]<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:02:31 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 5:18 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> But, you see Ben, that's because everyone south of Manchester are just<BR>
> southern woosies. And as for those easterners living in Yorkshire,<BR>
> well I suppose they can't help being second best to us in God's own<BR>
> county (Lancashire, of course).<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I'm always pleased to see our Friends in the North maintaining thier sense<BR>
humour in the face of adversity.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
********<BR>
every one knows that the best fighters come from the South of<BR>
England....that's why I moved there. Though I am still to be<BR>
impressed!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:07:38 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> > Here in the US, there an average of 3 days supply of food in most major<BR>
> > cities.  Cut off distribution, and it will get ugly.  This is<BR>
undoubtably<BR>
> > true of many high-tech worlds as well, unless they have experienced some<BR>
> > sort of disaster previously that has forced the government to make<BR>
> > preparations.  Of course, if the government IS the problem...<BR>
><BR>
> Including normal in-home reserves, it's probably more like 7-10 days.<BR>
Some<BR>
> areas which are prone to natural disasters try to encourage more storage<BR>
> (for example, California tries to encourage earthquake preparations) but<BR>
> I don't think any of them have been hugely successful.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Personally speaking, I don't feel comfortable unless I have about 30 days<BR>
food and water.  One natural disaster is all it takes. Besides, what's<BR>
Costco for anyway?  I suppose reading things like "Lucifer's Hammer" and<BR>
"Alas Babylon" are partly to blame.  And if things get really bad, the dog<BR>
would probably feed the family for quite a while. Yet another strike against<BR>
cats--not much meat on them.<BR>
<BR>
 Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:14:05 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
	On a recent long drive, my wife and I started to discuss the role of<BR>
ambassadors and diplomats in modern society (we sometimes have very strange<BR>
conversations, both being history-buffs).  In the ages of slow<BR>
communication, the ambassador was a vitally necessary position, as he (it<BR>
was usually a 'he' back then) spoke for the king/government in their<BR>
absence.  These days, with the telephone and videoconferencing, the role is<BR>
a less important one, and has become a convenient place to appoint people to<BR>
whom the president/PM/king/etc owes favors.  In the Traveller universe,<BR>
however, the communication lag would bring back the original purpose of the<BR>
ambassador.<BR>
	My question is:  just how extensive is the diplomatic system in YTU?<BR>
does 'embassy row' on any given planetary capital have offices or compounds<BR>
for nearly every other planet in the subsector, plus half of all the<BR>
neighboring subsectors?  Will ambassadors again become the quick-witted and<BR>
devious people they once were, charged with the authority to negotiate and<BR>
make decisions in the absence of other explicit instructions?  What about<BR>
the local Imperial noble?  Does he have an office?  Does he leave a senechal<BR>
in charge of things?  Do they cound as another embassy, depending on the<BR>
amount of control they excercise on that particular world?<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - they just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:16:26 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
You don't grow non-digestable foods -- they grow themselves (grass, for<BR>
instance).<BR>
<BR>
- --- Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
> Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Cows, pigs, chickens, and most other meat animals, convert inedible<BR>
> > (from a human perspective) foods to edible ones.  Since human<BR>
> beings<BR>
> > cannot eat grass or certain leaves (as well as offal, in the case<BR>
> of<BR>
> > chickens and pigs), animals are used to convert those products into<BR>
> > something human beings can eat; I do not see this changing even on<BR>
> > high-tech, high-pop worlds.<BR>
> <BR>
> Why grow non-digestable foods? On a world where space fopr ag is at a<BR>
> premium, growing non-immediately useful foods is a waste of<BR>
> resources;<BR>
> grow something you can eat. What you can't eat makes biomass for the<BR>
> reactors, making plastics feedstock, gas for energy, etc.<BR>
> <BR>
> Growing animals for food takes up a vast amount of space, compared to<BR>
> growing it in vats.<BR>
> <BR>
> If you can make textured vegetable protein that tastes good, why go<BR>
> to<BR>
> the hassle of growing whole animals. After all, we can't eat the bulk<BR>
> of<BR>
> the animal, either.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hightech, hipop will be tvp or yeast glop, maybe with carniculture<BR>
> meat,<BR>
> but even that'll be expensive.<BR>
> <BR>
> Imported foodstuffs will likely be quite valuable on these planets,<BR>
> unless _everyone's_ so poor they can't afford it.<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Bruce Johnson<BR>
> University of Arizona<BR>
> College of Pharmacy<BR>
> Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:19:16 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
> In support of this theory, it should be noted that a huge General Dynamics<BR>
> plant used to be located in Pomona, next door to Claremont.  I worked<BR>
> there for a few years.  The parody name Pynchon used for his perpetually<BR>
> shafted defense contractor was "Yoyodyne".  (Now, for bonus points, name a<BR>
> film appearance of the name "Yoyodyne".)<BR>
<BR>
Now let's see, perhaps I should ask a co-worker of mine, John Parker, that<BR>
one. At least he's not an alien.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:22:00 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
 <BR>
> In support of this theory, it should be noted that a huge General Dynamics<BR>
> plant used to be located in Pomona, next door to Claremont.  I worked<BR>
> there for a few years.  The parody name Pynchon used for his perpetually<BR>
> shafted defense contractor was "Yoyodyne".  (Now, for bonus points, name a<BR>
> film appearance of the name "Yoyodyne".)<BR>
<BR>
Why, _Buckaroo Banzai_, of course!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:22:33 -0400<BR>
From: "James Fleming" <blackjack@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry writes:<BR>
> In support of this theory, it should be noted that a huge General Dynamics<BR>
> plant used to be located in Pomona, next door to Claremont.  I worked<BR>
> there for a few years.  The parody name Pynchon used for his perpetually<BR>
> shafted defense contractor was "Yoyodyne".  (Now, for bonus points, name a<BR>
> film appearance of the name "Yoyodyne".)<BR>
<BR>
Would that be Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems from Buckaroo Banzai?  Great movie<BR>
by the way.  Eagerly awaiting DVD release.<BR>
Jim Fleming<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:27:53 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Slightly off topic filk...<BR>
<BR>
The Day the Webring Died<BR>
<BR>
http://members.tripod.com/toddy78/webdied.html<BR>
<BR>
Ob-Trav   I've already set up an alternate Traveller Gearhead webring on <BR>
ringsurf.<BR>
<BR>
Ring members can be expecting information on how to move off the <BR>
abomination that Yahoo has turned the Webring system into.<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:31:40 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Undead Ammo of the 3rd Imperium (was Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?)<BR>
<BR>
William 'Commander X' Prankard wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> What's next? Vampiric African Swallows from X-TEK? Denebian Tree Oxen<BR>
> Liches from SuSAG?<BR>
<BR>
LSP's Golem Belters.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:35:01 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> You don't grow non-digestable foods -- they grow themselves (grass, for<BR>
> instance).<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Only if you have tracts of aerable land.  In the case of Vantage, the<BR>
population lives in floating cities several thousand feet abouve the surface<BR>
of the planet, which is a frozen water world with a dense atmosphere.  It is<BR>
a totally artificial world where not grows 'by itself'.<BR>
<BR>
On other worlds with high population and small landmass, it is easily<BR>
conceivable that there is little available land for grass to grow on.  Even<BR>
the most marginal cropland may be converted for feed production with modern<BR>
methods.<BR>
<BR>
Grazing aninmals are able to use poor fodder on marginal land because they<BR>
have lots of it.  Lots of space and lots of poor feed.  Take the US as a<BR>
whole.  There is lots of space to graze animals, so that even if the fodder<BR>
is poor or sparse, if you have dozens of acres per animal, this is not a<BR>
problem.  Now imagine raising beef in Singapore, Hong Kong or even<BR>
Manhatten.  Tricky.  But vegetable can easily be raised in such<BR>
environments.  Ad advanced technology farming, and you can efficiently raise<BR>
quite a bit of consumable food per 'acre'.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3038<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3039</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/13/00 1:36:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 13 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3039<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
Gerbil gun???<BR>
RE: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longish)<BR>
RE: Diplomacy<BR>
Yoyodyne<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Question<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Units of Measurement (Heaven & Earth Mac Port)<BR>
Commerce in the Future (was Re: California Dreaming)<BR>
Penguins?<BR>
Re: Diplomacy<BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:07:18 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Any ideas where a good place to place IOU in the Traveller Universe<BR>
>> might be? It'd have to be outside the Imperium, and not too close to<BR>
>> the Zhodani. I think it shouldn't be near the K'kree or Hivers.<BR>
>> Probably not *too* far from the Spinward Marches.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Areas that come to mind:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Between the Imperium and the Vargr extents.<BR>
>> Between the Imperium, Solomani and Aslan.<BR>
><BR>
> How about Arnorac in Reft? It's an Imperial Client State, practically<BR>
> impossible to get to without at least Jump-6 or magic, and you have to go<BR>
> through at least 1 Red Zone. Should keep the little bas...ah...darlings out<BR>
> of mischief. :)<BR>
>  <BR>
>> ps. Obviously, Warehouse 23 belong to IOU... <eg><BR>
><BR>
> No, not owned, the Secret Masters would never allow THAT, but maybe they<BR>
> have a reseach fellowship, staff exchange schemes and maybe a day-release<BR>
> program.<BR>
<BR>
Fine, *you* get to tell the Arch-Dean that she isn't allowed to have<BR>
her toybox. I'll watch from the next galaxy... that *might* be far<BR>
enough away to be safe.<BR>
<BR>
Evil GM idea: The PCs are hired to deliver a "special shipment" to IOU.<BR>
<eg><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:13:33 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Gerbil gun???<BR>
<BR>
I saw this mentioned in one of the recent posts and got me<BR>
worrying...I know ACQ covers ballistic penguins, but how about<BR>
projectile rodents? Has a flaw been found?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:05:23 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law (longish)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>
> Sent: 12 September 2000 15:03<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>
> Subject: RE: Basic GM question: Repercussions/dealing with the law<BR>
> (longish) <BR>
> > <BR>
> > If you make it clear to your players just how much <BR>
> trouble they _can_<BR>
> > get into and the consequences of doing it, then any mess <BR>
> they make is<BR>
> > up to them to deal with. Hell, they'll all be dead by the <BR>
> time Virus<BR>
> > hits anyway (IMTU...).<BR>
> <BR>
> Why, are you running a Milieu 0 campaign, or are you a <BR>
> Killer GM? :)<BR>
<BR>
Nawww - just cruel and heartless :-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:40:42 -0400<BR>
From: Bob Kovalchick <Kovalchick@wbgh.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
 This is an interesting question. However, it begs other questions that need<BR>
to be answered first. Such as...What is the structure of the different<BR>
levels of political organization? Is there a subsector "council" or other<BR>
body made up of representatives from the various sytems/planets? Do some<BR>
subsectors have this "council" and others don't? How is the Imperium<BR>
involved with this process? <BR>
<BR>
I would think that the Imperial nobility acts as a pseudo<BR>
ambassador/representative between the various political interests in the<BR>
region. (Talk about pork and intrigue)<BR>
<BR>
I.e. the Duke of Regina acts as a mediator/facilitator for the subsector's<BR>
various political interests.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bob Kovalchick<BR>
Washington Business Group on Health<BR>
E: kovalchick@wbgh.com <mailto:kovalchick@wbgh.com> <BR>
<BR>
	-----Original Message-----<BR>
	From:	Rodney Basler [SMTP:rgb@odetics.com]<BR>
	Sent:	Wednesday, September 13, 2000 3:14 PM<BR>
	To:	'traveller@lists.imagiconline.com'<BR>
	Subject:	Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
		On a recent long drive, my wife and I started to discuss the<BR>
role of<BR>
	ambassadors and diplomats in modern society (we sometimes have very<BR>
strange<BR>
	conversations, both being history-buffs).  In the ages of slow<BR>
	communication, the ambassador was a vitally necessary position, as<BR>
he (it<BR>
	was usually a 'he' back then) spoke for the king/government in their<BR>
	absence.  These days, with the telephone and videoconferencing, the<BR>
role is<BR>
	a less important one, and has become a convenient place to appoint<BR>
people to<BR>
	whom the president/PM/king/etc owes favors.  In the Traveller<BR>
universe,<BR>
	however, the communication lag would bring back the original purpose<BR>
of the<BR>
	ambassador.<BR>
		My question is:  just how extensive is the diplomatic system<BR>
in YTU?<BR>
	does 'embassy row' on any given planetary capital have offices or<BR>
compounds<BR>
	for nearly every other planet in the subsector, plus half of all the<BR>
	neighboring subsectors?  Will ambassadors again become the<BR>
quick-witted and<BR>
	devious people they once were, charged with the authority to<BR>
negotiate and<BR>
	make decisions in the absence of other explicit instructions?  What<BR>
about<BR>
	the local Imperial noble?  Does he have an office?  Does he leave a<BR>
senechal<BR>
	in charge of things?  Do they cound as another embassy, depending on<BR>
the<BR>
	amount of control they excercise on that particular world?<BR>
<BR>
		Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
	---------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
	Disclaimer - they just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_<BR>
to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:46:15 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
>(Now, for bonus points, name a<BR>
>film appearance of the name "Yoyodyne".)<BR>
<BR>
Buckaroo Banzai.  Fox is/was working on a series.<BR>
<BR>
Yoyodyne has been used in Star Trek too.  They were a contractor on the <BR>
Enterprise-D project.<BR>
The Overthruster has been used multiple times in Star Trek, including as <BR>
part of the first working Human Warp Drive ship.<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
Monday special, two valiums with a coffee chaser.<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:28:16 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
At 11:11 AM 9/13/00 -0700, Tod wrote:<BR>
>> >"try Ambrosia plus, the new taste sensation from the people who brought<BR>
>you<BR>
>> >Ambrosia"<BR>
>><BR>
>> Read the story in high school. Won't mention the author's name or the<BR>
>> invention he declined to patent.<BR>
>><BR>
>Can't remember the name of the story myself.  Care to jostle my memory?<BR>
><BR>
>Tod<BR>
<BR>
I regret to say that I can't. It was over twenty years ago.<BR>
<BR>
It was printed in the collection titled THE WIND FROM THE SUN. I think.<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------[IMTU]-----------------------------<BR>
Held within the pressure dome, a-top Olympus Mons.<BR>
I taste my bitter triumph, as the mad assembly-man.<BR>
Nevermore shall I return, escape these caves of vice!<BR>
For I have used tax revenue, to court the vote of parasites.<BR>
<BR>
- -- Author Unknown, Cultural Archives, University of Freya<BR>
- ------------------------[IMTU]------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:51:06 -0400<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
"Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:	<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I am currently running a game in the rim.  Given the high population density<BR>
> and lack of grazing land on some worlds (Vantage/CAPELLA in this case), it<BR>
> would seem that raising animals for meat would not be very economically<BR>
> feasable.  What are the list members thought on the prevelance of<BR>
> vegetarianism in such high tech, space starved societies.  Would<BR>
> vegetarianism become the norm? Are meat eaters viewed the way current<BR>
> societies view smokers?  What about geneered meat grown in tanks?<BR>
<BR>
There might be imported meat - meat is a good "crop" when there's lots<BR>
of free feed (grass, anything too tough for human digestion) and a lack<BR>
of manpower. Picture the "old west" - few people, lots of scrub, thus<BR>
cows are a good food source, from an effort-to-calorie perspective.<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, if you have limited space which you have to farm anyway, grow <BR>
something that is easy to deal with and has a high calorie-to-mass ratio.<BR>
Or, alternately, something that's low effort. Thus, legumes with a good<BR>
calorie to weight or grains, which, especially in a closed environment, <BR>
are pretty easy to deal with and have a long shelf life.<BR>
<BR>
The cool thing about growing on an agricultural space station is that <BR>
it's as easy to grow strawberries as it is cabbage since you have <BR>
perfect environment control. The only concern is stability of<BR>
the food once harvested, which even for something fragile like <BR>
strawberries, can be handled well even today.<BR>
<BR>
> Currently, I am operating on the thought that the past ecomonic necessity of<BR>
> a non-meat diet has led to a cultural bias against meat eating (it what<BR>
> uncivilized, low-tech barbarians do).  Meat has been replaced by things like<BR>
> TVP (texturized vegetable protein) and 'brand name' foods that are totally<BR>
> laboratory/factory produced, which may have a meat-like basis, don't carry<BR>
> the negative of ever having been alive.  They actually taste better as well,<BR>
> thanks to atificial taste auguments.<BR>
<BR>
I eat a lot of food based either on TVP (soy derivative) or gluten<BR>
(wheat derivative). Unless you're eating pretty high-quality meat,<BR>
it's pretty flavourless anyway, so one "deep fried chewy thing" is<BR>
pretty much like another. I'm not a vegetarian, but I have tried a lot<BR>
of 'veggie' food and the secret, as they say, is in the sauce.<BR>
<BR>
> "try Ambrosia plus, the new taste sensation from the people who brought you<BR>
> Ambrosia"<BR>
<BR>
From one Simpson's episode: "New Tofu Pops! Now with gag suppressant!"<BR>
<BR>
Along those lines, recently I've been inspired by a Canadian Geographic<BR>
issue highlighting the role bees play in modern fruit farming. It could<BR>
make an interesting adventure sideline when the bee control system go<BR>
awry on the agricultural station...<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                         egh@klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:48:21 -0500<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: Question<BR>
<BR>
Gentlebeings:<BR>
<BR>
For no particular reason (at least none I'm going to tell right now), I<BR>
need to know if canon ever mentioned any specific dates for the birthdays<BR>
of:<BR>
<BR>
Strephon and the Imperial Family (I think Lucan's b-day is 301), and any<BR>
other noble.<BR>
<BR>
Please give the source if available. Thank you. I now return you to your<BR>
normal discussion of how many penguins can dance on a pinhead, and why the<BR>
pinhead doesn't shoo them away.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:37:52 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
At 07:20 PM 9/13/00 +0100, Dom Mooney wrote:<BR>
>Some of you may know that the UK is currently facing a total lock <BR>
>down on fuel availability thanks to a coalition of farmers and <BR>
>truckers blockading the oil refineries and distribution depots. I'm <BR>
>not going to mention the arguments for or against this to avoid any <BR>
>potential flames here but....<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
>As a result, food is starting to run out at supermarkets and shops as <BR>
>a combination of panic buying and lack of deliveries bites. Hospitals <BR>
>are cancelling non-emergency work and have been ordered to be ready <BR>
>to switch to emergency treatment only. Refuse collection is failing <BR>
>as the trucks can't move, and response by the police to crime is <BR>
>being prioritised. Many businesses are admitting that in the next day <BR>
>or so they will need to shut down, or ask workers to take holidays. <BR>
>Some are preparing to lay people off.  I know that some bigger <BR>
>companies are considering implementing Y2K measures.<BR>
><BR>
>Anyway - how does this relate to Traveller?<BR>
><BR>
>I think it gives a very real example of how a technologically <BR>
>advanced, modern, industrialised state starts to collapse when trade <BR>
>runs dry. Something that illustrates the situation in Hard Times when <BR>
>a world could not feed itself or survive without trade. Slowly, <BR>
>society starts to slide.<BR>
<BR>
One sometimes gets the feeling that one is living in a particular novel,<BR>
specifically ATLAS SHRUGGED by Ayn Rand.<BR>
<BR>
WARNING: You may be infected with the desire to incorporate her ideas into<BR>
your Traveller Uninverse.<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------[IMTU]-----------------------------<BR>
Held within the pressure dome, a-top Olympus Mons.<BR>
I taste my bitter triumph, as the mad assembly-man.<BR>
Nevermore shall I return, escape these caves of vice!<BR>
For I have used tax revenue, to court the vote of parasites.<BR>
<BR>
- -- Author Unknown, Cultural Archives, University of Freya<BR>
- ------------------------[IMTU]------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:17:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Other California names that shouldn't be forgotten: Azusa (everything from A <BR>
> to Z in the USA), Tarzana, and Zzyyxx City (not sure if it's actually a <BR>
> town, but it's an exit on the interstate between LA and Las Vegas).<BR>
<BR>
Zyzyx is a real place in CA somewhere. That may be what you are<BR>
thinking of.<BR>
<BR>
My mom used to listen to radio minister from there.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: various televangelist equivalents distributing their message<BR>
via canned programs sent over the X-boat network. And collecting money<BR>
from large chunks of the Imperium. <BR>
<BR>
Players may wind up getting involved by hauling a load of "genuine<BR>
prayer shawls, blessed by Prophet Mikey himself". <BR>
<BR>
Some possibile consequences....<BR>
<BR>
The stuff is legal, but the government at the destination isn't real<BR>
fond of the guy's followers.<BR>
<BR>
Worse, it's *barely* legal, and they are trying to actively discourage them.<BR>
<BR>
Worse yet, they passed a law against this "cult" while the ship was in<BR>
jump. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:27:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Question for the list.<BR>
><BR>
> I am currently running a game in the rim.  Given the high population density<BR>
> and lack of grazing land on some worlds (Vantage/CAPELLA in this case), it<BR>
> would seem that raising animals for meat would not be very economically<BR>
> feasable.  What are the list members thought on the prevelance of<BR>
> vegetarianism in such high tech, space starved societies.  Would<BR>
> vegetarianism become the norm? Are meat eaters viewed the way current<BR>
> societies view smokers?  What about geneered meat grown in tanks?<BR>
<BR>
You don't *need* grazing land to raise meat animals. Chickens are the<BR>
best example in the US, but rabbits and guinea pigs are examples from<BR>
elsewhere.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, guinea pigs are a standard meat animal in Peru.<BR>
<BR>
Chikens love insect grubs. Which can be raise on food scraps (I know of<BR>
no place that's *doing* this, but it's doable). <BR>
<BR>
Likewise, rabbits and guinea pigs will eat scraps from processing<BR>
various vegtables, as well as stuff like fresh grass clippings (tough I<BR>
wouldn't recommend a large portion of grass in their diets).<BR>
<BR>
Then there are goats. Some friends have a goat. They aren't planning on<BR>
eating him, but he cleared their acre or so of backyard of a<BR>
blackberry thicket, and has kept it from spreading back (they are<BR>
surrounded by land that is "unbuildable"). And he only needed a small<BR>
amount of supplemental feed.<BR>
<BR>
I mention goats because they not only eat "scrub", but they also<BR>
produce milk that humans will drink, and make into things like cheese. <BR>
<BR>
I think they are about the smallest herbivore that is practical to<BR>
milk on a commercial scale (mouse milk, for example, *is* available.<BR>
It's also insanely expensive).<BR>
<BR>
I expect that many herbivores could be raised using algae as a feed<BR>
supplement. <BR>
<BR>
There are systems in use *now* that take sewage and turn it into fresh<BR>
water, vegetation and fish[1]. Some of the marsh grass from the final<BR>
stages could be used as feed. From the earlier stages, it gets burned,<BR>
and the ashes processed for heavy metals (the grass acts as a<BR>
biological filter to remove heavy metals from the outflow). After<BR>
removing the heavy metals, the rest can be dumped back into the system<BR>
where the plants can use it as fertilizer.<BR>
<BR>
[1] Tilpia. If you see these fish in the store, they probably came from<BR>
the "fish farm" stage of the processing.<BR>
<BR>
Such setups will recycle sewage & CO2 into fresh water, fresh air, and<BR>
a lot of food.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:45:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Cows, pigs, chickens, and most other meat animals, convert inedible<BR>
>> (from a human perspective) foods to edible ones.  Since human beings<BR>
>> cannot eat grass or certain leaves (as well as offal, in the case of<BR>
>> chickens and pigs), animals are used to convert those products into<BR>
>> something human beings can eat; I do not see this changing even on<BR>
>> high-tech, high-pop worlds.<BR>
><BR>
> Why grow non-digestable foods? On a world where space fopr ag is at a<BR>
> premium, growing non-immediately useful foods is a waste of resources;<BR>
> grow something you can eat. What you can't eat makes biomass for the<BR>
> reactors, making plastics feedstock, gas for energy, etc.<BR>
<BR>
No plant above the algae is 100% edible. Animals can process parts we<BR>
can't. Also, we are omnivores. Survival on a vegetarian diet requires a<BR>
lot more care than doing so on a mixed one. Most plants tend to lack<BR>
nutrients (especially certain amino acids) that we require. <BR>
<BR>
Using a mix of plants and animals is more efficient in terms of energy<BR>
*and* space than any other method of recycling air, water and organic<BR>
wastes into clean air, clean water, and food.<BR>
<BR>
> Growing animals for food takes up a vast amount of space, compared to<BR>
> growing it in vats.<BR>
<BR>
But the energy cost of *refining* the nutrients the vats require is far<BR>
higher and takes up space too. <BR>
<BR>
Again, it turns out to be more efficient to set up a partial ecology<BR>
devoted to recycling wastes into food. And the land used isn't wasted.<BR>
It doesn't need to be *that* buildable, though it does need to be<BR>
somewhat flat, or at least terraced. <BR>
<BR>
And portions of it are usable as park/recreation areas. Though on truly<BR>
high pop worlds, access to such would be tightly controlled.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, while *arable* land is in short supply, *land* isn't likely to be.<BR>
Work out the surface area of a planet capable of having a standard<BR>
atmosphere, or even a thin one. Then work out how many people per<BR>
square kilometer you get even at max population from the tables. <BR>
<BR>
You'll find that land can be spared for food.<BR>
<BR>
> If you can make textured vegetable protein that tastes good, why go to<BR>
> the hassle of growing whole animals. After all, we can't eat the bulk of<BR>
> the animal, either.<BR>
<BR>
Because TVP ain't meat. And our bodies *do* need limited amounts of<BR>
things like animal fat. One of the nastier ways to die is from living<BR>
on a diet of plants and *really* lean meat (like qild rabbits). It's<BR>
killed people who had to live off the land.<BR>
<BR>
There's a *reason* our bodies crave fat. <BR>
<BR>
> Hightech, hipop will be tvp or yeast glop, maybe with carniculture meat,<BR>
> but even that'll be expensive.<BR>
<BR>
Carniculture versus fish/small meat animals is a loss for carniculture.<BR>
Because you have to produce nutrients for the tanks, but the animals<BR>
can eat stuff you have to produce anyway.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:00:39 +0100<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: Units of Measurement (Heaven & Earth Mac Port)<BR>
<BR>
>> I disagree, in England we use both metric and imperial. It all depends on<BR>
>> where and what you are dealing with. When ever I start to think I am safe<BR>
to<BR>
>> use metric in a work place, I am reminded that imperial measurements a<BR>
>> required.<BR>
<BR>
>>I suppose to be truthful I've had to use knots, pounds and feet at work<BR>
>>before.<BR>
<BR>
>At least for the majority of design stuff we get to use metric.<BR>
<BR>
Its more a case of how old you are in the UK. I'm 32 and use metric for<BR>
short distant meaurements (mm, cm, m), imperial for long distant<BR>
measurements (miles) and imperial for weight (ounces, pounds, stones).<BR>
<BR>
However, I am conversant with all methods of measurements and can easily<BR>
convert between imperial and metric.<BR>
<BR>
In my view there is no right or wrong method as long as you know how to<BR>
convert between them.<BR>
<BR>
Could we change the subject, I keep expecting to see updates on Tod Glenn's<BR>
port of my program every time I see the current subject.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:15:55 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Commerce in the Future (was Re: California Dreaming)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Worse yet, they passed a law against this "cult" while the ship was in<BR>
> jump. :-)<BR>
<BR>
A more realistic problem is this: how do you deal with the frequent changes<BR>
in ownership of a cargo while it's in transit. For example, today, the<BR>
contents of an oil tanker change ownership about 80 times between the time<BR>
when it leaves and the time it arrives, and the tanker crew needs to make<BR>
sure that they release the cargo only to the rightful owner. This requires<BR>
quite a bit of paperwork today. Things are probably similar in the 3I, but<BR>
much more complicated.<BR>
<BR>
In an even simpler case, the cargo of a ship may change owners several times<BR>
between the time the transport emerges from jump and the transport arrives<BR>
at its destination. The ship emerges from jump and immediately transmits a<BR>
list of its contents to some commercial exchange where it is bought and sold<BR>
many times.<BR>
<BR>
If you think about how this would work in general, it can get extremely<BR>
complicated very fast.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:01:42 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
At 02:48 PM 9/13/00 -0500, Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Please give the source if available. Thank you. I now return you to your<BR>
>normal discussion of how many penguins can dance on a pinhead, and why the<BR>
>pinhead doesn't shoo them away.<BR>
<BR>
Being relatively new to the list I must ask what is the big deal about<BR>
penguins?<BR>
<BR>
Why would penguins (or Angels for that matter) want to dnace on the heads<BR>
of pins?<BR>
<BR>
Why can't they remain on top of the telly where they belong?<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------[IMTU]-----------------------------<BR>
Held within the pressure dome, a-top Olympus Mons.<BR>
I taste my bitter triumph, as the mad assembly-man.<BR>
Nevermore shall I return, escape these caves of vice!<BR>
For I have used tax revenue, to court the vote of parasites.<BR>
<BR>
- -- Author Unknown, Cultural Archives, University of Freya<BR>
- ------------------------[IMTU]------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:33:21 -0500<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
Various Snips;<BR>
Great Topic, IMTU the postion or function of ambassador is handled in<BR>
a number of ways. We have local Imperial Nobles handling the relations<BR>
along their frontiers within the Emperium with normal impunity and subject<BR>
to the usual and normal authorities.<BR>
<BR>
Relations along the frontiers of the Emperium and amoungst the other greater<BR>
and lesser stellar powers is another matter altogether. MTU utilizes<BR>
traditional<BR>
embasssies and consulates anoungst the stellar nations and states.<BR>
<BR>
MTU also uses individuals granted pletipotentiary powers to deal with and<BR>
for the Emperium in non-ordinary cases. An example might be<BR>
of a local governor or governor-general in appointing<BR>
an Admiral to be an Extraordinary Envoy to deal with a newly discovered<BR>
race/nation/etc until such time as the Powers that Be get around to<BR>
making a policy or aknowledging an informal policy already in place.<BR>
<BR>
Another tactic might be to appoint a senior military officer or civil<BR>
servant to the rank of Legate and assigning them the responsibility<BR>
to come up with and apply a functioning policy for an area -<BR>
ex The Vargr Extents.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, there are Embassies and all the other fun stuff that comes with<BR>
in my universe. Spies, diplomatic relations, assassinations etc.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, my sounds like fun.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:05:44 +0100<BR>
From: "Neil McGurk" <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
Hello All<BR>
<BR>
> > In Oz, "dosh" is pre-70's slang for money... a Pommy term I<BR>
> > believe.  I say<BR>
> > "pre-70's" because I recall hearing my oldies use the term<BR>
> > often, and their<BR>
> > friends.  Then in the 70's, it simply seemed to fade away, but decimal<BR>
> > currency had become "normal" by then (being intro'ed about<BR>
> > '67-ish?), so<BR>
> > perhaps it's origins lay in pounds, shillings, and pence of<BR>
> > the pre-decimal<BR>
> > days??<BR>
><BR>
> Yeah, us whingers still use the term 'dosh' as slang for money...in the<BR>
> shandy-drinking south anyway. I don't know what the Real Men of Yorkshire<BR>
> and Lancashire call it ;)<BR>
<BR>
Oop North and east of the Pennines, 'brass' and 'coin' are still used by<BR>
some. I think of 'dosh' as being a very London term.<BR>
<BR>
Nellkyn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:31:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> Because TVP ain't meat. And our bodies *do* need limited amounts of<BR>
> things like animal fat. One of the nastier ways to die is from living<BR>
> on a diet of plants and *really* lean meat (like qild rabbits). It's<BR>
> killed people who had to live off the land.<BR>
><BR>
> There's a *reason* our bodies crave fat.<BR>
<BR>
Recall from the original post that I was talking about hight tech worlds, in<BR>
this particular instance vantage/CAPELLA (TL14).  I would expect it would be<BR>
a trivial matter to synthesize required fats and animo acids from non-animal<BR>
sources.  Indeed, the main source of food may be some geneered algae, yeast<BR>
or bacteria that is processed into synthetic analogs of common foods--both<BR>
animal and vegetable.<BR>
><BR>
> > Hightech, hipop will be tvp or yeast glop, maybe with carniculture meat,<BR>
> > but even that'll be expensive.<BR>
><BR>
> Carniculture versus fish/small meat animals is a loss for carniculture.<BR>
> Because you have to produce nutrients for the tanks, but the animals<BR>
> can eat stuff you have to produce anyway.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
How will you efficiently raise meat animals on a grav city?  I suppose you<BR>
could always geneer a special, low space beef cow.  Say with no legs,<BR>
minimal brain, in a nice rectangular shape for efficient storage.  Plug them<BR>
into feeding and waste tubes, with occasional robo-message to keep the<BR>
musculature in tone.  And people complain about veal.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:33:43 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
Ethan Henry wrote:<BR>
>  <BR>
> There might be imported meat - meat is a good "crop" when there's lots<BR>
> of free feed (grass, anything too tough for human digestion) and a lack<BR>
> of manpower. Picture the "old west" - few people, lots of scrub, thus<BR>
> cows are a good food source, from an effort-to-calorie perspective.<BR>
<BR>
Barely. <BR>
<BR>
In a real sense, cattle ranching has _never_ been a profitable<BR>
occupation in the West (old or new) without _substantial_ government<BR>
subsidy.<BR>
<BR>
They got the idea that the west was such a wonderful place to run cattle<BR>
after they saw the vast herds of buffalo running there. And killed them<BR>
all.<BR>
<BR>
But then they did not run the cattle like the buffalo did (they roamed<BR>
for a damn good reason...the only way to sustain large populations of<BR>
grazers on land like that is to keep 'em constantly moving, subject the<BR>
land to annual wildfire and, oh yeah, don't suck the %#$@# water table<BR>
down from the surface to 600 foot down.)<BR>
<BR>
There's a range scientist from South Africa who's madee a close study of<BR>
this sort of thing, and basically, the above is the only way to<BR>
sustainably raise cattle in areas like the American West or the African<BR>
veldt.<BR>
<BR>
At the height of the cattle era in the late 1800's more cattle died of<BR>
starvation in Arizona that are run in the state today. <BR>
<BR>
Most of the rangeland has been pretty much destroyed, much like there's<BR>
little praire left any more. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ok, ok, I'll stop ranting now.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Along those lines, recently I've been inspired by a Canadian Geographic<BR>
> issue highlighting the role bees play in modern fruit farming. It could<BR>
> make an interesting adventure sideline when the bee control system go<BR>
> awry on the agricultural station...<BR>
<BR>
"Attaaaack of the Killer Space Bees!...In space no one can hear you<BR>
buzz"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3039<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3040</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 13 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3040<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Yoyodyne<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
Re: Question<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: Diplomacy<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Yoyodyne<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:39:41 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
From Pynchon's Yoyodyne company anthem (and my own possibly defective<BR>
memory):<BR>
<BR>
  Oh Yoyodyne, sweet Yoyodyne<BR>
  Contracts flee thee yet;<BR>
  The DOD has shafted thee --<BR>
  Out of spite, I'll bet!<BR>
<BR>
Brings a tear to my eye, it does.<BR>
<BR>
Congrats to everyone who correctly named "Buckaroo Banzai" as the film<BR>
which uses the name "Yoyodyne".  Now, for bonus points, and without<BR>
peeking at the tape:  In the movie, what was Yoyodyne's corporate slogan?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:06:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> With a careful choice of diet there's no reason vegetarianism wouldn't work.<BR>
> A grazing animal uses a lot more land and plant material than you'd use<BR>
> growing crops. On the subject of crop farming, lets not overlook kelp and<BR>
> algae. <BR>
> Protein could be  made up by and increase in consumption of pulses and bean,<BR>
> by gengineering existing crops to produce boosted protein levels, by<BR>
> artificial supplemants. (I leave the in-depth discussion of the biochemistry<BR>
> to Leonard, who's better at this stuff than I am)<BR>
<BR>
I got most of what I know from one of Asimov's larger books, the title<BR>
of which I don't recall at the moment.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:44:44 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3029<BR>
<BR>
At 9:11 AM -0700 9/13/00, Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
>David P. Summers writes:<BR>
><BR>
>  > Well, I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole (but less than a non-CAian<BR>
>  > might think :-).  Would it be too much hyperbole to say all<BR>
>  > CA place names begin with San, Santa, or Los?<BR>
><BR>
>Berkeley, Oakland, Alameda, Albany, Emeryville, Hayward, El Cerrito, Richmond<BR>
>(to name cities near me).<BR>
><BR>
>Sacramento, Redding, Bishop (to name cities that are not part of an urban area<BR>
>with one of those abbreviations).<BR>
<BR>
I think we need to review the meaning of the word "hyperbole"....<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:48:27 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Question<BR>
<BR>
I believe Strephon's is mentioned wherein it speaks of the Emperor's<BR>
List.  It may be a few hours before I can confirm this.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com> wrote:<BR>
> Gentlebeings:<BR>
> <BR>
> For no particular reason (at least none I'm going to tell right now),<BR>
> I<BR>
> need to know if canon ever mentioned any specific dates for the<BR>
> birthdays<BR>
> of:<BR>
> <BR>
> Strephon and the Imperial Family (I think Lucan's b-day is 301), and<BR>
> any<BR>
> other noble.<BR>
> <BR>
> Please give the source if available. Thank you. I now return you to<BR>
> your<BR>
> normal discussion of how many penguins can dance on a pinhead, and<BR>
> why the<BR>
> pinhead doesn't shoo them away.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Loren Wiseman<BR>
>      Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
>      Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society <BR>
> http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
>      SJ Games<BR>
>      lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
>      (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
>      (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:08:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In the case of vantage, sea level is a dense atmosphere, and H&E insists<BR>
> that the surface of vantage is frozen.  That doesn't exclude the possibility<BR>
> of fish ponds, but how efficient is this? <BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's *very* efficient. Especially since it can be part of the<BR>
water recycling system.<BR>
<BR>
> An in a society where cetaceans<BR>
> have been uplifted, will anyone be eating them? Why not also eat<BR>
> intellectually stunted humans?!<BR>
<BR>
Piers Anthony in "Anthonology", the short story "On the Farm". I may<BR>
have the title wrong, but it should be close. Warning. Read that story<BR>
at your own risk. Rather than the parallel world that Anthony had it<BR>
be, it could be a colony where the colonists lost all their food<BR>
animals, while at a low TL.<BR>
<BR>
There's another that's just as bad if not worse in the same collection.<BR>
I don't recall the title, but I think it has the word "torture" in it.<BR>
It's a "contact with aliens" story that would make your players ill if<BR>
you tried it.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:17:47 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Cows, pigs, chickens, and most other meat animals, convert inedible<BR>
>> (from a human perspective) foods to edible ones.  Since human beings<BR>
>> cannot eat grass or certain leaves (as well as offal, in the case of<BR>
>> chickens and pigs), animals are used to convert those products into<BR>
>> something human beings can eat; I do not see this changing even on<BR>
>> high-tech, high-pop worlds.<BR>
><BR>
> If room to grow things is at a premium, you wouldn't be growing grass or<BR>
> inedible leaves in the first place.  You'd feed more people by using that<BR>
> land to grow edible crops.<BR>
<BR>
Edible crops have parts that are inedible to humans, but edible to<BR>
animals. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:55:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 11:11 AM 9/13/00 -0700, Tod wrote:<BR>
>>> >"try Ambrosia plus, the new taste sensation from the people who brought<BR>
>>you<BR>
>>> >Ambrosia"<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Read the story in high school. Won't mention the author's name or the<BR>
>>> invention he declined to patent.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>Can't remember the name of the story myself.  Care to jostle my memory?<BR>
>><BR>
>>Tod<BR>
><BR>
> I regret to say that I can't. It was over twenty years ago.<BR>
><BR>
> It was printed in the collection titled THE WIND FROM THE SUN. I think.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, *now* I remember the story. I don't recall the title either. But it<BR>
was a neat story. <BR>
<BR>
BTW, "soylent green" isn't *really* a moral problem. After all, they<BR>
didn't *kill* the people for food, just processed the dead bodies. Even<BR>
most churches agree that in a survival situation, there's no moral<BR>
objection to eating someone who is dead, as long as you didn't kill<BR>
them so that they could be eaten.<BR>
<BR>
In fact, as Heinlein pointed out, cannibalism is mostly a taboo to keep<BR>
people from killing each other for food.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:59:17 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
>>Cows, pigs, chickens, and most other meat animals, convert inedible<BR>
>>(from a human perspective) foods to edible ones.  Since human beings<BR>
>>cannot eat grass or certain leaves (as well as offal, in the case of<BR>
>>chickens and pigs), animals are used to convert those products into<BR>
>>something human beings can eat; I do not see this changing even on<BR>
>>high-tech, high-pop worlds.<BR>
>Why grow non-digestable foods? On a world where space fopr ag is at a<BR>
>premium, growing non-immediately useful foods is a waste of resources;<BR>
>grow something you can eat. What you can't eat makes biomass for the<BR>
>reactors, making plastics feedstock, gas for energy, etc.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	If you are really pressed for space, eating plants is far more<BR>
	efficient than eating animals.  However, if you can get the<BR>
	animals to live in places where it is impractical for you to<BR>
	grow food plants (too rocky/steep/wet/dry/toxic/full of pests<BR>
	etc.), then meat may prove useful.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:59:13 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> How will you efficiently raise meat animals on a grav city?  I suppose you<BR>
> could always geneer a special, low space beef cow.  Say with no legs,<BR>
> minimal brain, in a nice rectangular shape for efficient storage.  Plug them<BR>
> into feeding and waste tubes, with occasional robo-message to keep the<BR>
> musculature in tone.  And people complain about veal.<BR>
<BR>
That's gonna taste like crap.  Like most factory farmed meat does,<BR>
frankly.  Yeah, yeah, artificial taste supplements, yada yada yada yada.<BR>
<BR>
I don't believe it.<BR>
<BR>
The main objection to fake food in my opinion has never been cruelty or<BR>
disease or the fear of weird genes (though those are not to laugh at) but<BR>
rather the fact that it tastes awful.  Tomatoes today last forever, are<BR>
pale as a British lady's cheeks, and taste like cellulose.  Factory farmed<BR>
chicken, which once gave me an unforgettable dose of salmonella, tastes so<BR>
bland that you could just about make candy from it; in fact, all<BR>
factory-farmed poultry is so bland that people are shocked when they taste<BR>
an older bird or a wild bird because they do not know that chicken and<BR>
turkey are actually flavors that are different from one another and<BR>
different from other things.  I don't eat veal but it's only partially<BR>
because I think it's unnecessarily cruel; I just don't like it.  It's<BR>
bland.  Strawberries are one of my favorite things, but I rarely buy them<BR>
at Safeway any more because the commercial ones are always bland and<BR>
bitter and must be doused in sugar.<BR>
<BR>
As for vegetarian meat substitutes, some of them taste pretty good but<BR>
they don't taste like meat.  Not factory meat and not real meat either.<BR>
(My brother hunts.  ^_^)  Real wild or range-raised meats will always<BR>
command a good price from those who have tasted them.  Real produce, too.<BR>
I am considered nuts by a lot of people who have seen what I spend on my<BR>
food and they all assume that it's because of my allergies, but it's not<BR>
JUST because of my allergies.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I love tofu.  But then again, I eat tofu in Asian dishes and when I<BR>
eat it, it's not pretending to be anything other than bean curd.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  ^_^<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:02:32 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson writes:<BR>
>>Here in the US, there an average of 3 days supply of food in most major<BR>
>>cities.  Cut off distribution, and it will get ugly.  This is undoubtably<BR>
>>true of many high-tech worlds as well, unless they have experienced some<BR>
>>sort of disaster previously that has forced the government to make<BR>
>>preparations.  Of course, if the government IS the problem...<BR>
>Including normal in-home reserves, it's probably more like 7-10 days.  Some<BR>
>areas which are prone to natural disasters try to encourage more storage<BR>
>(for example, California tries to encourage earthquake preparations) but<BR>
>I don't think any of them have been hugely successful.<BR>
<BR>
	That sounds about right.  Even when I am desparate to go grocery<BR>
	shopping, I can probably find enough food to feed myself for a few<BR>
	days.  But when it does start to run out... who was it that said<BR>
	that no civilization is more than 3 square meals from anarchy?<BR>
	(or something like that)<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:02:27 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
<BR>
At 6:35 PM +0100 9/13/00, michael.scanlon wrote:<BR>
>I got a tasmanian devil tie, does that count?<BR>
>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: "Paul Harris" <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
>To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 1:29 AM<BR>
>Subject: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Are there any other Tasmanian TML members on the list?<BR>
><BR>
>Harry<BR>
<BR>
I've met Tasmanians.  They were bemused by American, after<BR>
establishing that tasmanian devils really exist, asking if<BR>
they spin around.*<BR>
<BR>
*(From Bugs Bunny of course....)<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:04:05 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>I suppose you<BR>
>could always geneer a special, low space beef cow.  Say with no legs,<BR>
>minimal brain, in a nice rectangular shape for efficient storage.  Plug them<BR>
>into feeding and waste tubes, with occasional robo-message to keep the<BR>
>musculature in tone.  And people complain about veal.<BR>
<BR>
	"Whould you like to meet the meal of the day?"<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:02:20 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
>  <BR>
>> Here in the US, there an average of 3 days supply of food in most major<BR>
>> cities.  Cut off distribution, and it will get ugly.  This is undoubtably<BR>
>> true of many high-tech worlds as well, unless they have experienced some<BR>
>> sort of disaster previously that has forced the government to make<BR>
>> preparations.  Of course, if the government IS the problem...<BR>
><BR>
> Including normal in-home reserves, it's probably more like 7-10 days.<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't bet on that. *Especially* in the poorer parts of town. Folks<BR>
on foodstamps or other limited incomes can't *afford* stockpiles. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:08:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Personally speaking, I don't feel comfortable unless I have about 30 days<BR>
> food and water.<BR>
<BR>
I don't have any place to store that much. Apartments suck...<BR>
<BR>
And for that matter until not all that long ago I couldn't afford that<BR>
much food. <BR>
<BR>
> One natural disaster is all it takes. Besides, what's Costco for<BR>
> anyway?<BR>
<BR>
It's for folks with money. Poor folks can't use it.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:12:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:53:08 -0400<BR>
>> From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Claremont (where I went to school) faces Montclair across the LA-San<BR>
>> Bernardino county line, which is why when Thomas Pynchon wrote his novel<BR>
>> _The Crying of Lot 49_ about Claremont* he renamed it San Narciso (as in<BR>
>> Narcissus). <BR>
><BR>
> In support of this theory, it should be noted that a huge General Dynamics<BR>
> plant used to be located in Pomona, next door to Claremont.  I worked<BR>
> there for a few years.  The parody name Pynchon used for his perpetually<BR>
> shafted defense contractor was "Yoyodyne".  (Now, for bonus points, name a<BR>
> film appearance of the name "Yoyodyne".)<BR>
<BR>
"The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai". <BR>
<BR>
BTW, I have a Yoyodyne coffee mug...<BR>
<BR>
Is "The Crying of Lot 49" worth reading? Or is it "literature"?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:08:19 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
My 2 cents worth comes first from the Schroeder government, which has just<BR>
told it's diplomats to get out more, be seen, hold press conferences, appear<BR>
on chat shows and so on. The theory seems to be that they need to be the<BR>
new, approachable face of the new, approachable Germany.<BR>
<BR>
The next bit is the role played by one of the Washington-based Australian<BR>
diplomatic staff in the Metalstorm uber-machinegun (a weapon with a RoF of<BR>
basically 'yes'). Basically, the inventor had a real problem in that he<BR>
didnt know anyone in the US military-industrial complex, and everyone he had<BR>
talked to thought he was a 'friendly kook'. Well, the Third Assistant<BR>
Undersecretary was convinced that he hadn't faked the tape, and he called in<BR>
a personal favour with an ex-General he knew (Washington being Washington),<BR>
who sat through the whole presentation, got convinced that this was real,<BR>
and now sits on the company board (thus giving the operation the neccessary<BR>
Pentagon cred).<BR>
<BR>
The final bit about diplomatic staff also comes from Germany. There have<BR>
been 2 finance scandals in Germany recently, one with the right-wing CDU<BR>
taking undeclared donations from various secret donors, and one with the<BR>
left-wing SPD funding various other countries social democratic parties.<BR>
<BR>
See, the SPD has these IOUs to other European center-left parties, dating<BR>
back to the 30s, when they got declared illegal by Hitler, and were exiled<BR>
to Czechoslovakia. So in the 60s and 70s, it was a fairly open secret that<BR>
the SPD funnelled money through to the democratic oppositions in Spain and<BR>
Portugal (both ruled at the time by right-wing dictators). What just came<BR>
out was that it wasnt just SPD money from members and trade unions they were<BR>
funnelling, but when in power they were also secretly funnelling actual<BR>
German government money.<BR>
<BR>
The public doesnt seem to be too worried by the second scandal, but it<BR>
brings up an interesting question for me - the role of non-State subversion<BR>
in the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
We have all these non-State instititutions, whose power rivals many of the<BR>
actual States in the Imperium. It's pretty clear that they can and do<BR>
intervene.<BR>
<BR>
Now, contrary to most of what has been written, I dont think the Megacorps<BR>
do too much intervening, because of the sheer number of them.If LSP are your<BR>
enenmy, then it is too easy to find another megacorp to be your friend -<BR>
after all, there are a dozen megacorps who lose if LSP wins. Then we get<BR>
megacorp against megacorp, and it's ugly for both from there.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, lets get a faction of Imperials that has a particular<BR>
ideology - they believe in something (democracy, liberalism, free societies,<BR>
conservation, good huntin' and fishin', whatever). Because they have an<BR>
ideology, they arent motivated by profit and loss, and if some of them are<BR>
nobles with Society connections or merely rich, and have play money in the<BR>
millions per month, then they can do a pretty good facsimile of being a<BR>
"private State", complete with their own policies, pseudo-ambassadors and,<BR>
possibly, military advisors to favoured factions.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:15:26 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> > Including normal in-home reserves, it's probably more like 7-10 days.<BR>
> <BR>
> I wouldn't bet on that. *Especially* in the poorer parts of town. Folks<BR>
> on foodstamps or other limited incomes can't *afford* stockpiles. <BR>
<BR>
That's not a stockpile.  If you go shopping once a week, and use up everything<BR>
by the end of the week, you'll still average 3-4 days.  Most people will<BR>
have at least some materials they don't get every week, plus people with<BR>
limited incomes are likely to shop every two weeks or less, depending on<BR>
how often they get money.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:15:36 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Including normal in-home reserves, it's probably more like 7-10 days.<BR>
> <BR>
> I wouldn't bet on that. *Especially* in the poorer parts of town. Folks<BR>
> on foodstamps or other limited incomes can't *afford* stockpiles. <BR>
> <BR>
Even relatively wealthy people who a) don't drive cars and b) eat mostly<BR>
fresh food may not have stockpiles.  Goodness knows I don't.  Due to<BR>
allergies I can't eat a lot of processed foods, so it does me no good to<BR>
keep anything around that I'm not going to eat within a week, unless it's<BR>
something like flour or sugar.  I have stockpiles of food for my cat, but<BR>
that's just because she's cheaper to shop for that way-- her food doesn't<BR>
rot like mine does.  But I have that delivered along with my regular<BR>
webvan shipments.  I don't drive so even if I could eat the bulk processed<BR>
foods at Costco, I wouldn't be able to get them home!<BR>
<BR>
Actually in Japanese cities most people don't have a lot of food stored up<BR>
either-- because they don't have cars OR storage space (which I also don't<BR>
have...)  I don't know where I would PUT all the food I would eat in two<BR>
weeks or more.  Basically the only things I buy in bulk are cat food and<BR>
rice.  And I couldn't eat the cat food because it has ALL the stuff I'm<BR>
allergic to in it!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:15:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
> Congrats to everyone who correctly named "Buckaroo Banzai" as the film<BR>
> which uses the name "Yoyodyne".  Now, for bonus points, and without<BR>
> peeking at the tape:  In the movie, what was Yoyodyne's corporate slogan?<BR>
<BR>
The Future Begins Tomorow<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:17:36 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Personally speaking, I don't feel comfortable unless I have about 30 days<BR>
> > food and water.<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't have any place to store that much. Apartments suck...<BR>
> <BR>
Me neither.<BR>
<BR>
> > One natural disaster is all it takes. Besides, what's Costco for<BR>
> > anyway?<BR>
> <BR>
> It's for folks with money. Poor folks can't use it.<BR>
> <BR>
It's for people with CARS.  People who don't own cars and don't have<BR>
garages can't use it.  How would we get it home and where would we put it<BR>
when we did?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:22:02 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> Is "The Crying of Lot 49" worth reading? Or is it "literature"?<BR>
<BR>
Both, I'd say.  Conspiracy nuts and engineering geeks will appreciate it in one way (or, rather, will appreciate certain parts); English-major types will appreciate others.  It's definitely the most user-friendly of the Thomas Pynchon oeuvre (and it's short, so even if you don't dig it you haven't wasted much time).<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
P.S.  As always, YMMV: as one of those aforementioned English-major types, my views on the subject may not be worth much to you.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:35:34 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
><BR>
<HUGE snip><BR>
><BR>
>Along those lines, recently I've been inspired by a Canadian Geographic<BR>
>issue highlighting the role bees play in modern fruit farming. It could<BR>
>make an interesting adventure sideline when the bee control system go<BR>
>awry on the agricultural station...<BR>
<BR>
	I believe there is an episode of the '70s TV series "Starlost" that<BR>
featured giant mutant bees.  Mind you, I've never seen the show, my only<BR>
experience with it is from Harlan Ellison's essay/rant on the subject, as he<BR>
was involved with the project at the beginning and it apparently left a bad<BR>
taste in his mouth.<BR>
<BR>
	http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/star2.html  (I guess the show had at<BR>
least _one_ fan)<BR>
 <BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't try to tell me _what_ to<BR>
think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:39:43 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> In fact, as Heinlein pointed out, cannibalism is mostly a taboo to keep<BR>
> people from killing each other for food.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
It also minimized the transmission of disease and parasites.  Eating flesh<BR>
that is close to ones own (say pork) is dangerous unless scrupulous cooking<BR>
protocols are followed or the meat is very clean.  Taenea Solea anyonce?<BR>
Human flesh is likely to be more of a problem.  The sick ones will be the<BR>
easiest to catch. Niven touched on this in "Lucifer's Hammer".<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:41:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> There's another that's just as bad if not worse in the same collection.<BR>
> I don't recall the title, but I think it has the word "torture" in it.<BR>
> It's a "contact with aliens" story that would make your players ill if<BR>
> you tried it.<BR>
> <BR>
"On the uses of torture".<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3040<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3041</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 13 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3041<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
Re: Diplomacy<BR>
Re: Undead Ammo of the 3rd Imperium (was Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?)<BR>
Re: IOU in Traveller<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Diplomacy<BR>
RE: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: Striker ROF's<BR>
RE: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
RE: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:34:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
> Sorry, won't work. as long as there's water, it doesn't *matter* what<BR>
> the impurities are. Run an electric current thru it and you'll get<BR>
> hydrogen (and oxygen). The few metals that'll come off *before*<BR>
> hydrogen does are silver, gold and copper. All of which are worth<BR>
> extracting on their own.<BR>
<BR>
Could be impuritues which, yes, a purpose-built cracker could handle, but<BR>
the standard fuil refiners built into ships have a problem with. Say,<BR>
there's an organic compound present which happens to find the material used<BR>
in LSP gasket seals tasty, and EVERYBODY uses LSP gasket seals (I for one<BR>
wouldn't trust anybody else's). Never say never when it comes to<BR>
engineering...<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:48:39 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
Doug Berry, author of "At Close Quarters", and "GT:Ground Forces" tossed<BR>
off a one-liner in a draft of ACQ about using a Penguin as a projectile<BR>
weapon.<BR>
<BR>
It has, as they say, mutated from there to become somewhat of a<BR>
mascot/injoke on the TML.<BR>
<BR>
Much like Chupacabra has in another mailing list I'm on...<BR>
<BR>
Leslie Bates wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Being relatively new to the list I must ask what is the big deal about<BR>
> penguins?<BR>
> <BR>
> Why would penguins (or Angels for that matter) want to dnace on the heads<BR>
> of pins?<BR>
> <BR>
> Why can't they remain on top of the telly where they belong?<BR>
> <BR>
> Les<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:48:39 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Diplomacy<BR>
><BR>
>Various Snips;<BR>
>Great Topic, IMTU the postion or function of ambassador is handled in<BR>
>a number of ways. We have local Imperial Nobles handling the relations<BR>
>along their frontiers within the Emperium with normal impunity and subject<BR>
>to the usual and normal authorities.<BR>
><BR>
>Relations along the frontiers of the Emperium and amoungst the other<BR>
>greater<BR>
>and lesser stellar powers is another matter altogether. MTU utilizes<BR>
>traditional<BR>
>embasssies and consulates anoungst the stellar nations and states.<BR>
><BR>
>MTU also uses individuals granted pletipotentiary powers to deal with and<BR>
>for the Emperium in non-ordinary cases. <BR>
<BR>
	Ah, but what about the individual planets themselves??  Is _all_<BR>
contact and negotiation between planetary governments mediated by the<BR>
Imperium?  If the Imperium controls only "the space between the planets" and<BR>
insures that trade will continue, wouldn't interplanetary relations like<BR>
import/export duties and tariffs, immigration, transfer of technology,<BR>
extradition, and mutual defense pacts, all fall to the discretion of the<BR>
planets themselves?  If there is limited warfare and captive governments,<BR>
wouldn't each planet require it's own diplomatic corps?<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:24:48 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Undead Ammo of the 3rd Imperium (was Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> *A Zombie Gerbil gun was made up shortly after Vehicles 2 came<BR>
>>> out.  It is a laser that takes stream of gerbils, drains their<BR>
>>> life force for energy to power the laser, cast the Zombie spell on<BR>
> them,<BR>
>>> and then ejects them toward the enemy.<BR>
><BR>
>>I'd like to note that a Ghoul Gerbil Gun* would be better, as it would<BR>
>>paralyse targets in addition to causing impact damage.<BR>
><BR>
>>Nick<BR>
>>*A high tech variant of my LRP group's Ghoul Cat On A Stick terror<BR>
> weapon.<BR>
>>Or comedy weapon. It's largely an individual decision.<BR>
><BR>
> How about the Hypervelocity Undead Fin Stablized Discarding-Sabot Penguin<BR>
> from Gridlore?<BR>
> Penguins are well known for their armour peircing ability, make them<BR>
> undead for necrolicious fun for everyone!<BR>
><BR>
> Do not taunt Happy Fun Penguin...<BR>
><BR>
> What's next? Vampiric African Swallows from X-TEK? Denebian Tree Oxen<BR>
> Liches from SuSAG?<BR>
> Okay this has gotten far too silly! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Umbral Universal Unique Utilities press release:<BR>
<BR>
Tired of your neighbor's LaserZapper firing on all the songbirds and<BR>
stray pets in the neighborhood?<BR>
<BR>
4U is proud to announce its line of anti-zapper bird robots. They come<BR>
in several models including ECM birds and zapper-zapper birds. ...<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:29:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: IOU in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Just at the edge of the Vargr extents and the Spinward Marches fer sure.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, isn't there a "corridor" of unclaimed space between<BR>
the Aslan and the Zhodani?  If so, placing it where that corridor runs<BR>
into the "border" between the Imperium and the Hierate might be fun.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe there's a *reason* why neither the Consulate nor the Heirate<BR>
has claimed that territory. <eg><BR>
<BR>
It could be the route that "others" take to reach IOU.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:49:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> > 2) Personal particle beam weapons (could be totally experimental)<BR>
>> These are called "plasma guns" and "fusion guns".<BR>
><BR>
> Aren't plasma and fusion guns personal *energy* weapons?<BR>
<BR>
Nope. <BR>
<BR>
> The difference between energy and particle weapons seems mainly to be that<BR>
> nearly all of the damage of a particle accelerator is from kinetic energy,<BR>
> whereas a significant portion of an energy weapon's damage arises from the<BR>
> high temperature of the plasma/fusion bolt.<BR>
<BR>
High temperature *is* high velocity. <BR>
<BR>
A plasma bolt is just a slow, badly focused particle beam pulse. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:03:10 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>         Ah, but what about the individual planets themselves??  Is _all_<BR>
> contact and negotiation between planetary governments mediated by the<BR>
> Imperium?  If the Imperium controls only "the space between the planets" and<BR>
> insures that trade will continue, wouldn't interplanetary relations like<BR>
> import/export duties and tariffs, immigration, transfer of technology,<BR>
> extradition, and mutual defense pacts, all fall to the discretion of the<BR>
> planets themselves?  If there is limited warfare and captive governments,<BR>
> wouldn't each planet require it's own diplomatic corps?<BR>
<BR>
Absolutely, which is what makes it all _so_ much fun for the PC's to<BR>
sort out! <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:13:09 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
<BR>
<Message begins><BR>
<BR>
[Newsflash]<BR>
Terra 021-1123<BR>
<BR>
The system was dragged to a standstill today, as blockades continued<BR>
into their third day. The protesters, angry at ever increasing prices for<BR>
refined fuel, continued their 'peaceful' protest surrounding the manifold<BR>
Liquid Hydrogen refineries, allowing no tanker traffic out all day, except<BR>
for a small convoy of supplies to emergency service installations.<BR>
<BR>
In a planet wide protest, with unity never before seen, people of all walks<BR>
of life protested the inflationary 'escalator' pricing policy of the imposed<BR>
government. Prices have seen  massive hikes of over 35 percent in the<BR>
last few years since the last government was voted in.<BR>
<BR>
A spokesman for the government, Tory Planb (MI)* said he was considering<BR>
sending in the marines to put the 'illegal protest' down once and for all!<BR>
<BR>
Starships and Small Vehicles alike are being grounded for lack of fuel,<BR>
crippling the economy, and causing thousands of staff to be laid off in<BR>
starports all over the planet, after 'panic buying' caused stockpiles to<BR>
be drained.<BR>
<BR>
Reports are appearing of entrepreneurial fuel vendors 'profiteering' by<BR>
charging<BR>
upwards of 15KCr per tonne of LH2. This practice has been slammed by<BR>
the authorities as a callous and exploitative misuse of power.<BR>
<BR>
Further reports as they come in...<BR>
<BR>
<End of Message><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Not very likely, in GT anyway. GT-Ultratech fusion plants use miniscule<BR>
amounts of fuel. The Megacorps, IISS and the Imperial Navy are the major<BR>
users of refined fuel. Private ship owners are a fraction of the total<BR>
number of users of refined fuel. In tonnage their number is even smaller.<BR>
The typical Imperial citizen is not likely to take notice of the price of<BR>
fuel. Fusion is cheap power. On a planet making refined fuel is trivial if<BR>
the planet has water. Even in space if a gas giant is present in the system<BR>
it's just a matter of scooping it.<BR>
<BR>
It's a good try but the entire basis of technology presupposes that energy<BR>
is cheap and plentiful at GTL-10/12, at least in GT.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:17:15 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:12:09 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> <BR>
> BTW, I have a Yoyodyne coffee mug...<BR>
<BR>
Oh, covet covet *covet*.<BR>
<BR>
> Is "The Crying of Lot 49" worth reading? Or is it "literature"?<BR>
<BR>
What a dichotomy to set up!  It's both.  It's a conspiracy-theory novel,<BR>
sort of.  It's screamingly funny in parts.  It gets pretty weird and<BR>
twisty at times.  It is frustratingly ambiguous in many places, but that's<BR>
clearly intentional.<BR>
<BR>
In short, it's brilliant.  It is also very short, and far more easily<BR>
pentrable than Pynchon's better-known books (I've made several frontal<BR>
assaults on _Gravity's Rainbow_, only to be thrown back in disarray, with<BR>
heavy casualties, each time).<BR>
<BR>
The best blurb-style description I can offer is "James Joyce meets Robert<BR>
Anton Wilson, with Douglas Adams lurking behind the curtains." :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:18:05 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker ROF's<BR>
<BR>
Steve Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >  There's a couple of broad questions here; why do the design sequences<BR>
 >saddle energy weapons like the above - which doesn't have any sort of<BR>
 >auto-fire bonus - with a continuous energy input requirement (150 sec =<BR>
 >5 turns) when a large CPR/MD cannon would get the same hit numbers and<BR>
 >multiple hit rules coverage from a handful of rounds per fire phase or<BR>
 >even turn?<BR>
 <BR>
The Striker autofire table requires a weapon to fire >19 rounds per phase<BR>
to get a +2 bonus (I guess a house rule could have "semi-auto" fire at >9<BR>
rounds per phase getting a +1 bonus).  <BR>
<BR>
 >  And that assumes that the above weapons "shot" is a one-second blast,<BR>
 >which is a bit strange, to say the least (OK, say it's one second worth<BR>
 >of input stored for near-instant discharge...).<BR>
<BR>
Assuming a 1 second cycle (for weapon cooling?), a weapon could fire 15 shots<BR>
per phase, not enough for an autofire bonus from Striker.  I guess to <BR>
design rapid fire energy weapons, they want you to follow the RP rules or<BR>
use "multi-lens" pulse lasers.<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:14:16 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
<BR>
Ah well! Looks like it will have to do!<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Low population worlds really suck sometimes!<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: michael.scanlon [mailto:michael.scanlon@Bmthonline.net]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 14 September 2000 3:35<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> I got a tasmanian devil tie, does that count?<BR>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> From: "Paul Harris" <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 1:29 AM<BR>
> Subject: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Are there any other Tasmanian TML members on the list?<BR>
> <BR>
> Harry<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:56:42 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> That sounds about right.  Even when I am desparate to go grocery<BR>
> shopping, I can probably find enough food to feed myself for a few<BR>
> days.  But when it does start to run out... who was it that said<BR>
> that no civilization is more than 3 square meals from anarchy?<BR>
> (or something like that)<BR>
><BR>
Actual experience in cities and societies experiencing famine or blockade, Paris<BR>
in 1870, Sarajevo, Bangladesh, Somalia, etc etc, shows that civilisation is very<BR>
robust. These situations almost never happen overnight and what happens is an<BR>
erosion of civil society. People respond to familiar patterns of organisation,<BR>
emergency services, cops, doctors, paramedics etc carry on working. A fairly<BR>
large number of people (the percentage varies from culture to culture) die of<BR>
malnutrition or related diseases long *before* there is a complete breakdown of<BR>
civil society.<BR>
<BR>
If the emergency is prolonged then things get harsher you start to see<BR>
fragmentation, large outbreaks of violence. The real killer is the death of<BR>
hope.<BR>
<BR>
Nobody is really panicking in the UK, at the moment it is mostly media hype,<BR>
because they know that before the situation can become life threatening one of<BR>
two things will happen. The government will either back down or the government<BR>
will use the instruments of the state to ensure that fuel supplies are restored.<BR>
<BR>
Margaret Thatcher would have ordered the police in at about 12:00 o'clock today.<BR>
<BR>
People have faith in their civilisation, even Americans do, it would take a<BR>
universal disaster to really unravel the fabric of society all in one go.<BR>
<BR>
Personally I think that the quote should go 'Civilisation is only 3 meals away<BR>
from demanding that something should be done.'<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:24:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> > How will you efficiently raise meat animals on a grav city?  I suppose<BR>
you<BR>
> > could always geneer a special, low space beef cow.  Say with no legs,<BR>
> > minimal brain, in a nice rectangular shape for efficient storage.  Plug<BR>
them<BR>
> > into feeding and waste tubes, with occasional robo-message to keep the<BR>
> > musculature in tone.  And people complain about veal.<BR>
><BR>
> That's gonna taste like crap.  Like most factory farmed meat does,<BR>
> frankly.  Yeah, yeah, artificial taste supplements, yada yada yada yada.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
But you don't have a lifetime of experience only eating 'manufactured' food.<BR>
Everything is relative.  I know many people who don't like wild game because<BR>
it taste's, well, gamey.  One man's fish is another man's poisson (grin).<BR>
<BR>
> The main objection to fake food in my opinion has never been cruelty or<BR>
> disease or the fear of weird genes (though those are not to laugh at) but<BR>
> rather the fact that it tastes awful.  Tomatoes today last forever, are<BR>
> pale as a British lady's cheeks, and taste like cellulose.<BR>
<BR>
Largely because storage and visual appeal are the primary concerns.  If we<BR>
breed food specifically for taste at the expense of visual appeal, things<BR>
will be undoubtably different.<BR>
<BR>
> As for vegetarian meat substitutes, some of them taste pretty good but<BR>
> they don't taste like meat.  Not factory meat and not real meat either.<BR>
> (My brother hunts.  ^_^)  Real wild or range-raised meats will always<BR>
> command a good price from those who have tasted them<BR>
<BR>
Only to people who like the taste of wild game will pay the price.  As<BR>
mentioned above, many people don't like the taste.  I hunt myself, and like<BR>
wild game.  But I also enjoy veal.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:24:34 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
<BR>
All the Tasmanains on the list are laughing there heads off!<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: David P. Summers [mailto:summers@alum.mit.edu]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 14 September 2000 7:02<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> At 6:35 PM +0100 9/13/00, michael.scanlon wrote:<BR>
> >I got a tasmanian devil tie, does that count?<BR>
> >----- Original Message -----<BR>
> >From: "Paul Harris" <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
> >To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
> >Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 1:29 AM<BR>
> >Subject: [OT] As a matter of interest<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >Are there any other Tasmanian TML members on the list?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Harry<BR>
> <BR>
> I've met Tasmanians.  They were bemused by American, after<BR>
> establishing that tasmanian devils really exist, asking if<BR>
> they spin around.*<BR>
> <BR>
> *(From Bugs Bunny of course....)<BR>
> <BR>
> ______________________________<BR>
> summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
> (This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but <BR>
> I'm in California.)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:37:12 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I don't have any place to store that much. Apartments suck...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Been there and understand.  Although a good quantity of preserved food<BR>
(freeze dried) can be stored in a closet. Naturally, cost is an issue.  And<BR>
even a couple of weeks of canned food, though not of ideal variety, can be<BR>
purchase and stored at moderate cost and space.<BR>
<BR>
> And for that matter until not all that long ago I couldn't afford that<BR>
> much food.<BR>
><BR>
> > One natural disaster is all it takes. Besides, what's Costco for<BR>
> > anyway?<BR>
><BR>
> It's for folks with money. Poor folks can't use it.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, the abjectly poor will fall victim to any disaster that cuts<BR>
off supplies, along with the rich and unprepared.  How much will a can of<BR>
beans be worth, when there are no more cans being delivered?<BR>
<BR>
For those in the rural areas, there is also the possibilty of living off the<BR>
land.  Even in urban areas, this is a limited possibilty.  Cat anyone? Rat<BR>
perhaps? A .22 rifle and standard velocity ammo is a wonderful tool.  One<BR>
can obtain an old used .22 rifle for as little as $50 dollars, and 500 round<BR>
of ammo goes for $8.99.  Standard velocity ammo is quiet out of a rifle<BR>
barrel, just the thing for potting squirrels, possum, cats, dogs, birds or<BR>
any other local protein source without upsetting the neighbors.  For real<BR>
stealth, try .22 colibri ammo (BB caps), but only on small game.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:03:29 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
<BR>
>In support of this theory, it should be noted that a huge General Dynamics<BR>
>plant used to be located in Pomona, next door to Claremont.  I worked<BR>
>there for a few years.  The parody name Pynchon used for his perpetually<BR>
>shafted defense contractor was "Yoyodyne".  (Now, for bonus points, name a<BR>
>film appearance of the name "Yoyodyne".)<BR>
<BR>
    Alien, Aliens, Alien3, Alien Reserection, Event Horizon, Buckaro Banzai,<BR>
Space Truckers, Star Trek:  Generations, Star Trek:  First Contact, Star<BR>
Trek:  Insurection, Star Gate, & a few more I cannot remember.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:29:11 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At 17:30 -0400 12/9/00, "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:<BR>
>>    Oh, my god, there are two of them.  Doug & Craig are bothers, that is<BR>
>>the 3rd of 7 signs that the world is ending.<BR>
><BR>
>I don't think they are 'bothers' at all. Both post quite entertaining<BR>
>and thoughtful posts.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Dom, lets hope not.  If they are we are in real trouble.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:29:11 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: J-J-J-Jae Tellona<BR>
<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At 17:30 -0400 12/9/00, "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:<BR>
>>    Oh, my god, there are two of them.  Doug & Craig are bothers, that is<BR>
>>the 3rd of 7 signs that the world is ending.<BR>
><BR>
>I don't think they are 'bothers' at all. Both post quite entertaining<BR>
>and thoughtful posts.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Dom, lets hope not.  If they are we are in real trouble.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 15:56:47 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> > > One natural disaster is all it takes. Besides, what's Costco for<BR>
> > > anyway?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > It's for folks with money. Poor folks can't use it.<BR>
> ><BR>
> It's for people with CARS.  People who don't own cars and don't have<BR>
> garages can't use it.  How would we get it home and where would we put it<BR>
> when we did?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
OK.  Ignore the cost issue, companies like NitroPak can ship you perfectly<BR>
nutritious freeze dried food that will store for years and occupy very<BR>
little space.  A two week supply of long storage food for 2 people will set<BR>
you back $125.  True, it's not great cuisine.  It's SURVIVAL food.<BR>
<BR>
You can actually do better if you do it yourself.  Beans, rice, flour and<BR>
pasta are cheap in bulk and last virtually forever.  Napoleon fed his troops<BR>
in Germany on flour laid down by Frederick the Great.  Add things like<BR>
canned veggies and fruit, bullion cubes, powdered milk and you can last a<BR>
long time.  You'll need water. If it looks ugly, fill your bathtub.  I<BR>
bought a 50 Gallon water polypropelene container (surplus) for $20.  That<BR>
was high.<BR>
<BR>
We once had the power go out for 3 days.  No big deal except the stores were<BR>
all closed.  We had fun.  Light the candles and cook on the BBQ.  For some<BR>
people it was an ordeal.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:11:09 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
>> Aren't plasma and fusion guns personal *energy* weapons?<BR>
> Nope.<BR>
<BR>
Alright, looks like I'm going to have to run out the canons. It's time for<BR>
a Referencewar!<BR>
<BR>
High Guard? Pg 18. "Energy weapons (which include plasma guns and fusion<BR>
guns) fire a highly energised beam of ionized (sic) gas at the<BR>
target....Energy weapons inflict surface damage."<BR>
On the same page: "Particle Accelerators charge and accelerate electrons or<BR>
hydrogen nuclei to high velocities towards targets. Hits produce surface<BR>
damage and radiation effects."<BR>
<BR>
I grant you, they might not be *personal* energy weapons (for example the<BR>
'PlasmaGun' batteries on an EF-12 Escort Fleet - pg 74, Shattered Ships of<BR>
the Fighting Imperium), but I think they're indisputably energy weapons.<BR>
The fact that they accelerate particles is entirely irrelevant.<BR>
<BR>
> High temperature *is* high velocity.<BR>
I was thinking on a more macroscopic level....<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:13:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> Actual experience in cities and societies experiencing famine or blockade,<BR>
Paris<BR>
> in 1870, Sarajevo, Bangladesh, Somalia, etc etc, shows that civilisation<BR>
is very<BR>
> robust.<BR>
<BR>
Excelllent point. having enjoyed the benefits of civilization, I refuse to<BR>
give them up.  When things get really bad, we can always eat the media type<BR>
who keep telling us how bad it is.  And cat does not taste like chicken.<BR>
It's more like rabbit.  Hippopotamus, however, tastes exactly like, well,<BR>
hippopotamus.<BR>
<BR>
> Personally I think that the quote should go 'Civilisation is only 3 meals<BR>
away<BR>
> from demanding that something should be done.'<BR>
<BR>
True.  Although modern western citizens are probably more vulnerable to<BR>
deprivation, having never known it.  At least I'd say that's true of<BR>
Americans.  In the UK you still have people who survived WWII and the Blitz.<BR>
Here we have the depression survivors who are fewer and fewer.  Most people<BR>
in the US have known nothing but relatively good times.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, this is the country where fans riot when their local sports team<BR>
wins the big game.  What will they do when the stores say "sorry, no food<BR>
today?".<BR>
<BR>
I don't expect mass panic, but there will undoubtably be pockets of<BR>
ugliness, which our media will play over and over on the TV.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I could use some time off.  And playing Traveller does not<BR>
require a large caloric intake in the event that we're ratioing food.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:22:52 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> More great California placenames that don't start with Los/San/Santa:<BR>
> Twentynine Palms, Three Rocks, Dun Movin, Harmony, Saratoga, Campbell,<BR>
> Sunnyvale, Fremont, Studio City, Burbank, Indio, Joshua Tree, Truckee,<BR>
> Sacramento, Monterey, Salinas, Cambria, Carmel, Carpinteria, Claremont,<BR>
> Montclair (these two are adjacent), Upland, Newport Beach, Avalon, Malibu,<BR>
> Port Hueneme, Oxnard, Lompoc...<BR>
<BR>
My personal favorite non-Spanish placename in California was Fort Bragg,<BR>
CA, but that was only because I had spent a couple of years stationed at<BR>
Ft. Bragg, NC before learning of the California town.  When I was TDY at<BR>
Ft. Ord, I sent a "Greetings from Fort Bragg" postcard, complete with a<BR>
lovely photo of sunset over the Pacific, back to my unit at Ft.<BR>
Bragg....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3041<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3042</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 13 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3042<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Place Names<BR>
RE: Naming patterns<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Place Names<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
RE: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Naming patterns<BR>
Re: Place Names<BR>
Re: Diplomacy<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:21:53 +1000<BR>
From: Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
<BR>
Craig Barnett wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't recall seeing any<BR>
> pictures of BD in Book 4 at all.  Are you sure you are mean<BR>
> Book4/Mercenary?<BR>
<BR>
After some research when I got home last night I find that I was getting<BR>
confused between the picture in book4 and the one in Adv1: The Kinunir.<BR>
<BR>
Although I think it's only supposed to be a vacc suit that is the look<BR>
of the BD in the cardboard heroes set.<BR>
<BR>
Phill<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:31:08 -0700<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
At 04:13 PM 9/13/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>Besides, this is the country where fans riot when their local sports team<BR>
>wins the big game.  What will they do when the stores say "sorry, no food<BR>
>today?".<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the exact same thing happened here in Los Angles just a month or<BR>
two ago.<BR>
<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:34:20 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
<BR>
Christopher Thrash wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:58:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
> > From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
> > Subject: Naming patterns<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Or my favorite California placename, "Los Osos" ("The Bears").  Easy to<BR>
> > say, hard to tell when to stop. :)  (My second favorite is "Yreka", but<BR>
> > only because it sets up the beautifully palindromic "Yreka Bakery" there.)<BR>
> <BR>
> My personal favorite is Parumph. I was quite surprised to discover that<BR>
> the "Parumphian People's Militia" at the National Training Center had any<BR>
> connection with reality.<BR>
<BR>
My personal favorite term for a fictional OPFOR (that's "Opposing<BR>
Force", for you civilians) is the "Pineland Liberation Front" from<BR>
Exercise Robin Sage, an ongoing series of exercises run near Ft. Bragg<BR>
(the one in North Carolina).  The acronym, PLF, is a common one at Ft.<BR>
Bragg, since it also stands for "Parachute Landing Fall."<BR>
<BR>
So, what are some names of OPFOR (nations and units) in 3I training<BR>
exercises?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:40:27 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Personally speaking, I don't feel comfortable unless I have about 30 days<BR>
> food and water.  One natural disaster is all it takes. Besides, what's<BR>
> Costco for anyway?  I suppose reading things like "Lucifer's Hammer" and<BR>
> "Alas Babylon" are partly to blame.  And if things get really bad, the dog<BR>
> would probably feed the family for quite a while. Yet another strike against<BR>
> cats--not much meat on them.<BR>
<BR>
True; OTOH, cats are an effective predator (probably more so than all<BR>
but the smallest dogs) against disease vector vermin (such as various<BR>
rodents).  If Hard Times strike, I want a few cats around my village....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:45:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> True; OTOH, cats are an effective predator (probably more so than all<BR>
> but the smallest dogs) against disease vector vermin (such as various<BR>
> rodents).  If Hard Times strike, I want a few cats around my village....<BR>
<BR>
Hey, they're competing with you for food.  There's nothing like a nice plumb<BR>
"miller".<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:38:18 -0400<BR>
From: "Guy Lemire" <guylemire.associes@videotron.ca><BR>
Subject: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
> From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
> Subject: Place Names<BR>
><BR>
> Well, back here in the Montreal region of Quebec, we have a couple of cute<BR>
> ones.  Pierrefonds (where my fiance hails from) translates to english as<BR>
> Rock Bottom, and especially delightful is Lachine.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Hey-hey dont make fun of my hometown .(lol)<BR>
<BR>
If you really want to impress them try one of  those so many named after<BR>
saints town that are 8+ word long .<BR>
<BR>
Pat<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:51:16 -0500<BR>
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
>Or my favorite California placename, "Los Osos" ("The Bears").  Easy to<BR>
>say, hard to tell when to stop. :) <BR>
<BR>
What about Los Banos?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(for the non-spanish endowed) The Bathrooms.<BR>
<BR>
And, accaully, it is a very good potty break between Fresno and the Bay Area<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:57:11 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > In fact, as Heinlein pointed out, cannibalism is mostly a taboo to keep<BR>
> > people from killing each other for food.<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> It also minimized the transmission of disease and parasites.  Eating flesh<BR>
> that is close to ones own (say pork) is dangerous unless scrupulous cooking<BR>
> protocols are followed or the meat is very clean.  Taenea Solea anyonce?<BR>
> Human flesh is likely to be more of a problem.  The sick ones will be the<BR>
> easiest to catch. Niven touched on this in "Lucifer's Hammer".<BR>
<BR>
I know I posted these URLs recently, but this is another logical place<BR>
to do so:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.brains4zombies.com/<BR>
<BR>
http://www.bioscience.org/guides/cjd.htm<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:39:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Because TVP ain't meat. And our bodies *do* need limited amounts of<BR>
>> things like animal fat. One of the nastier ways to die is from living<BR>
>> on a diet of plants and *really* lean meat (like qild rabbits). It's<BR>
>> killed people who had to live off the land.<BR>
>><BR>
>> There's a *reason* our bodies crave fat.<BR>
><BR>
> Recall from the original post that I was talking about hight tech worlds, in<BR>
> this particular instance vantage/CAPELLA (TL14).  I would expect it would be<BR>
> a trivial matter to synthesize required fats and animo acids from non-animal<BR>
> sources.  Indeed, the main source of food may be some geneered algae, yeast<BR>
> or bacteria that is processed into synthetic analogs of common foods--both<BR>
> animal and vegetable.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, but that's *expensive* in terms of energy for prcoessing nutrients<BR>
and for processing food afterwards.<BR>
<BR>
>> > Hightech, hipop will be tvp or yeast glop, maybe with carniculture meat,<BR>
>> > but even that'll be expensive.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Carniculture versus fish/small meat animals is a loss for carniculture.<BR>
>> Because you have to produce nutrients for the tanks, but the animals<BR>
>> can eat stuff you have to produce anyway.<BR>
><BR>
> How will you efficiently raise meat animals on a grav city?  I suppose you<BR>
> could always geneer a special, low space beef cow.  Say with no legs,<BR>
> minimal brain, in a nice rectangular shape for efficient storage.  Plug them<BR>
> into feeding and waste tubes, with occasional robo-message to keep the<BR>
> musculature in tone.  And people complain about veal.<BR>
<BR>
As I noted, rabbits, guinea pigs, and chickens are all "low space" food<BR>
animals. And fish can be grown in the final stages of water recycling.<BR>
<BR>
For that matter, with grav cities, you can just run herds on grazers on<BR>
the surface. From what I recall of your description of the surface,<BR>
reindeer (caribou) altered to handle the atmosphere might work well.<BR>
Other than the dense air, it sounds like the sort of country they live<BR>
in on Earth.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:47:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> There's another that's just as bad if not worse in the same collection.<BR>
>> I don't recall the title, but I think it has the word "torture" in it.<BR>
>> It's a "contact with aliens" story that would make your players ill if<BR>
>> you tried it.<BR>
>> <BR>
> "On the uses of torture".<BR>
<BR>
Yeah. That's the one. <BR>
<BR>
Talk about a world that'd be red-zoned and not offered membership in<BR>
the Imperium. <shudder><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:51:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> Is "The Crying of Lot 49" worth reading? Or is it "literature"?<BR>
><BR>
> Both, I'd say.  Conspiracy nuts and engineering geeks will appreciate it in <BR>
> one way (or, rather, will appreciate certain parts); English-major types <BR>
> will appreciate others.  It's definitely the most user-friendly of the <BR>
> Thomas Pynchon oeuvre (and it's short, so even if you don't dig it you<BR>
> haven't wasted much time).<BR>
><BR>
> Trent<BR>
><BR>
> P.S.  As always, YMMV: as one of those aforementioned English-major types, <BR>
> my views on the subject may not be worth much to you.<BR>
<BR>
Hey, you like Traveller. That means you aren't beyond redemption.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, I've read "The Divine Comedy" simply because I *wanted* too.<BR>
(Well, to steal ideas for D&D too). So I guess I'm not a complete "tech<BR>
geek" either.<BR>
<BR>
But it'll be a *long* time before I manage to wade thru my complete (16<BR>
volume) set of the Arabian Nights...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:02:26 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
On 13 Sep 2000, at 12:07, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Personally speaking, I don't feel comfortable unless I have about 30 days<BR>
> food and water.  One natural disaster is all it takes. Besides, what's<BR>
> Costco for anyway?  I suppose reading things like "Lucifer's Hammer" and<BR>
> "Alas Babylon" are partly to blame.  And if things get really bad, the dog<BR>
> would probably feed the family for quite a while. Yet another strike against<BR>
> cats--not much meat on them.<BR>
<BR>
But you can have several cats around for the cost of one dog. Not only that but <BR>
your cat isn't going to band up with several others, run feral, and hunt YOU.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:06:40 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
<BR>
> You can actually do better if you do it yourself.  Beans, rice, flour and<BR>
> pasta are cheap in bulk and last virtually forever.  Napoleon fed his<BR>
troops<BR>
> in Germany on flour laid down by Frederick the Great.  Add things like<BR>
> canned veggies and fruit, bullion cubes, powdered milk and you can last a<BR>
                            ^^^^^^^<BR>
Gee, this survival lark is a bit expensive...<BR>
<BR>
And bouillon would be more nutritious <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:11:06 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, back here in the Montreal region of Quebec, we have a couple of cute<BR>
> ones.  Pierrefonds (where my fiance hails from) translates to english as<BR>
> Rock Bottom, and especially delightful is Lachine.<BR>
> <BR>
> Y'see, it appears that when Cartier (or whoever it was that landed there)<BR>
> named it, he honestly thought he was in China (La Chine is french for China,<BR>
> natch).<BR>
<BR>
**WARNING: PG-13 post follows**<BR>
<BR>
On the subject of place names:<BR>
<BR>
During my travels through these United States, I have encountered<BR>
several place names that could be considered risque....<BR>
<BR>
<<two friends conversing>><BR>
<BR>
"Hey, why do you look so down?  What's wrong?"<BR>
<BR>
"My girlfirend dumped me."<BR>
<BR>
"Any idea why?"<BR>
<BR>
"Yeah, she found out that I'm from Short Pump, Virginia.  Now she's<BR>
dating some guy from French Lick, Indiana."<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  There just _have_ to be place names on various worlds into<BR>
which one can read sexual innuendo, where none was intended....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:12:36 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
"michael.scanlon" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>> <BR>
<BR>
> every one knows that the best fighters come from the South of<BR>
> England....that's why I moved there. Though I am still to be<BR>
> impressed!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Of _course_ the best fighters are in the South of England!  They had to<BR>
be there to intercept Jerry....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:11:18 -0500<BR>
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
"We have spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, eggs, and spam or spam spam..."<BR>
<BR>
(chanting from off camera vikings) "Spam spam spam spam, spam spam spammity<BR>
spam..."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----<BR>
Meat has been replaced by  'brand name' foods that are totally<BR>
laboratory/factory produced, which may have a meat-like basis, don't carry<BR>
the negative of ever having been alive.  They actually taste better as well,<BR>
thanks to atificial taste auguments.<BR>
<BR>
"try Ambrosia plus, the new taste sensation from the people who brought you<BR>
Ambrosia"<BR>
<BR>
Thoughts.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Tod Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
- --<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:27:05 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
Michael Houghton wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Howdy!<BR>
> <BR>
> Rod Basler wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >       I love the redundantly-named "The La Brea Tar Pits" - since 'La<BR>
> > Brea' is 'the tar' in Spanish, the literal translation is "The The Tar Tar<BR>
> > Pits"<BR>
> >       In addition to the Spanish and Russian names, I live in a city<BR>
> > settled by Germans - a little town on the Ana river:  Anaheim.<BR>
> ><BR>
> Somewhere in England, one finds Torpenhow Hill. Tor, Pen, and How all<BR>
> mean hill, in (I think, and in no particular order), Cornish, Welsh, and<BR>
> something else. Thus "hill hill hill hill".<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's a very simple etymology.<BR>
<BR>
Speaker language 2 (in broken language 1) "What's that called" (pointing<BR>
to hill)<BR>
Speaker L1 "Tor" (thinking 'dumba** tourist..._anyone_ can see it's a<BR>
hill!')<BR>
<BR>
decades or centuries pass.<BR>
<BR>
Speaker L3 (in L2)  "What's that called" (pointing to hill)<BR>
Speaker L2 "Tor hill" (thinking...this seems somehow familiar...)<BR>
<BR>
decades or centuries pass.<BR>
<BR>
Speaker L4 (in L3)  "What's that called" (pointing to hill)<BR>
Speaker L3 "Torpen hill" (thinking...Definitely been here before!)<BR>
<BR>
decades or centuries pass.<BR>
<BR>
well...you get the picture...how much you wanna bet that in 500 years<BR>
it's going to be called 'Torpenhowhill' followed by <whatever the new<BR>
invaders use for 'hill'> ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:02:48 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
"Goodna" (Outer suburb of Brisbane) means "Dung" in local Aboriginal<BR>
dialects.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:51:07 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
> From: Ian Whitchurch<BR>
> On the other hand, lets get a faction of Imperials that has a particular<BR>
> ideology - they believe in something (democracy, liberalism, free<BR>
societies,<BR>
> conservation, good huntin' and fishin', whatever). Because they have an<BR>
> ideology, they arent motivated by profit and loss, and if some of them<BR>
are<BR>
> nobles with Society connections or merely rich, and have play money in<BR>
the<BR>
> millions per month, then they can do a pretty good facsimile of being a<BR>
> "private State", complete with their own policies, pseudo-ambassadors<BR>
and,<BR>
> possibly, military advisors to favoured factions.<BR>
<BR>
As it happens....<BR>
<BR>
Hawkins and Ouzogh, a trading corporation and vehicle design bureau based<BR>
on Extolay/Lanth, is owned by a partnership of the Regina Regional<BR>
Committee of the Ine Givar and the Knutoel Uekuez (New Uekuez) Corsair<BR>
band.  <BR>
<BR>
I was planning on writing a scenario about this, but haven't got around to<BR>
it:  The RRCIG is going to split from the nuttier factions of the IG, and<BR>
establish a legal pan-sophontist front group called Solidariti. <BR>
Solidariti, in turn, will establish educational and training foundations<BR>
that will, for example, teach citizens of Heya to operate and repair medium<BR>
to high tech civilian equipment, like air/rafts.<BR>
<BR>
The Knutoel Uekuez operate a bunch of merchant ships, plus a smaller fleet<BR>
of traditional corsair type vessels.  They operate inside the Imperium, so<BR>
they don't engage in p****y much.  Instead, they function as a cross<BR>
between a "respectable businessmen's association", and a militant<BR>
"nationalist" self-defence group for the Imperial Vargr community, and some<BR>
of them serve as mercenaries.  Originally based on Jesedipere, they now<BR>
have a number of bases, including Extolay.<BR>
<BR>
The alliance of these forces is based on a vaguely democratic,<BR>
pansophontist ideological base - other potential allies include the Dandies<BR>
on Junidy, the miners on Dinom, the remnants of the Efate rebels, and other<BR>
former IG members, particularly those in exile in the Federation of Arden.<BR>
<BR>
Assets:  apart from their ships and considerable number of highly skilled<BR>
people, the RRCIG has at various stages had access to support from the<BR>
Zhodani, and other extra-imperial factions.  This is still sporadically<BR>
available, as there are still attempts to woo them back to the fold.  The<BR>
other major cash cow, though, are pension funds:  RRCIG nominees control<BR>
certain "labour movement" owned funds.  <BR>
<BR>
Oh, yes, the RRCIG also has a presence in many guilds and unions, most<BR>
significantly for game purposes, those involved with starports,<BR>
interplanetary and interstellar travel....<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:03:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Sorry, won't work. as long as there's water, it doesn't *matter* what<BR>
>> the impurities are. Run an electric current thru it and you'll get<BR>
>> hydrogen (and oxygen). The few metals that'll come off *before*<BR>
>> hydrogen does are silver, gold and copper. All of which are worth<BR>
>> extracting on their own.<BR>
><BR>
> Could be impuritues which, yes, a purpose-built cracker could handle, but<BR>
> the standard fuil refiners built into ships have a problem with. Say,<BR>
> there's an organic compound present which happens to find the material used<BR>
> in LSP gasket seals tasty, and EVERYBODY uses LSP gasket seals (I for one<BR>
> wouldn't trust anybody else's). Never say never when it comes to<BR>
> engineering...<BR>
<BR>
Given that the refining gear can apparently handle: <BR>
<BR>
water with various sorts of mineral/organic comtaminants <BR>
ice (water, ammonia or methane varieties)<BR>
Gas giant atmosphere at high pressure, high temp, and high velocity<BR>
<BR>
I doubt that the relevant sections are going to be vulnerable to much.<BR>
And even if they are, it's not at all hard to rig a "pre-processor"<BR>
that won't be vulnerable. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:47:05 -0700<BR>
From: Bill <beast@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> > > Here in the US, there an average of 3 days supply of food in most major<BR>
> > > cities.  Cut off distribution, and it will get ugly.  This is<BR>
>undoubtably<BR>
> > > true of many high-tech worlds as well, unless they have experienced some<BR>
> > > sort of disaster previously that has forced the government to make<BR>
> > > preparations.  Of course, if the government IS the problem...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Including normal in-home reserves, it's probably more like 7-10 days.<BR>
>Some<BR>
> > areas which are prone to natural disasters try to encourage more storage<BR>
> > (for example, California tries to encourage earthquake preparations) but<BR>
> > I don't think any of them have been hugely successful.<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
>Personally speaking, I don't feel comfortable unless I have about 30 days<BR>
>food and water.  One natural disaster is all it takes. Besides, what's<BR>
>Costco for anyway?  I suppose reading things like "Lucifer's Hammer" and<BR>
>"Alas Babylon" are partly to blame.  And if things get really bad, the dog<BR>
>would probably feed the family for quite a while. Yet another strike against<BR>
>cats--not much meat on them.<BR>
><BR>
> Tod<BR>
<BR>
Actually Cats serve a very useful purpose. At least around my <BR>
apartment complex. The pet owners leave dry cat food in dishes <BR>
outside their back doors. This has the effect of attracting less <BR>
domesticated animals, raccoons, beaver, nutria and possum, all of <BR>
which will sustain a body, as well as provide some pelts for trading. <BR>
Since I live on an upper floor I obviously have a high ground <BR>
advantage over the other residents in my complex.<BR>
<BR>
Would you hand me that leg o' possum please, Tod?<BR>
<BR>
Bill<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:49:30 -0700<BR>
From: Bill <beast@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> > Because TVP ain't meat. And our bodies *do* need limited amounts of<BR>
> > things like animal fat. One of the nastier ways to die is from living<BR>
> > on a diet of plants and *really* lean meat (like qild rabbits). It's<BR>
> > killed people who had to live off the land.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > There's a *reason* our bodies crave fat.<BR>
><BR>
>Recall from the original post that I was talking about hight tech worlds, in<BR>
>this particular instance vantage/CAPELLA (TL14).  I would expect it would be<BR>
>a trivial matter to synthesize required fats and animo acids from non-animal<BR>
>sources.  Indeed, the main source of food may be some geneered algae, yeast<BR>
>or bacteria that is processed into synthetic analogs of common foods--both<BR>
>animal and vegetable.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Hightech, hipop will be tvp or yeast glop, maybe with carniculture meat,<BR>
> > > but even that'll be expensive.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Carniculture versus fish/small meat animals is a loss for carniculture.<BR>
> > Because you have to produce nutrients for the tanks, but the animals<BR>
> > can eat stuff you have to produce anyway.<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
>How will you efficiently raise meat animals on a grav city?  I suppose you<BR>
>could always geneer a special, low space beef cow.  Say with no legs,<BR>
>minimal brain, in a nice rectangular shape for efficient storage.  Plug them<BR>
>into feeding and waste tubes, with occasional robo-message to keep the<BR>
>musculature in tone.  And people complain about veal.<BR>
><BR>
>Tod<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like what KFC has allegedly done to chickens ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:58:17 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Bill wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Actually Cats serve a very useful purpose. At least around my<BR>
> apartment complex. The pet owners leave dry cat food in dishes<BR>
> outside their back doors. This has the effect of attracting less<BR>
> domesticated animals, raccoons, beaver, nutria and possum, all of<BR>
> which will sustain a body, as well as provide some pelts for trading.<BR>
> Since I live on an upper floor I obviously have a high ground<BR>
> advantage over the other residents in my complex.<BR>
<BR>
"Nutria"?  Do you live in Louisiana, sir?  If so, in which city/parish? <BR>
(I live in Baton Rouge, LA.)  Should we try to get together for some<BR>
Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:20:03 -0500<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
At 02:28 PM 9/13/00, you wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > OB-Trav: A TL9 planet is currently experience a fuel crisis, brought about<BR>
> > by the high duty on LH2 refining(metallic impurities in the hydrosphere <BR>
> make<BR>
> > wilderness refueling impossible, and there is no gas giant in-system).<BR>
><BR>
>Sorry, won't work. as long as there's water, it doesn't *matter* what<BR>
>the impurities are. Run an electric current thru it and you'll get<BR>
>hydrogen (and oxygen). The few metals that'll come off *before*<BR>
>hydrogen does are silver, gold and copper. All of which are worth<BR>
>extracting on their own.<BR>
><BR>
>So, the *only* reason hydrogen can be more than a bit more expensive<BR>
>than usual is if the hydro percentage on planet is *zero*. That is,<BR>
>there's only enough water on world for "life support" uses.<BR>
><BR>
>If there's even a 1% hydro, there's more than enough water to make<BR>
>fuel, and as I note above, contaminants are merely inconvenient.<BR>
><BR>
> > The local<BR>
> > government, a charismatic dictatorship ;) , has requested that processed<BR>
> > hydrogen be brought in from a nearby system (no, it doesn't make economic<BR>
> > sense).<BR>
><BR>
>Neither does having local LH2 be so hideously expensive *unless* the<BR>
>planet is a waterless rockball.<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
What about an accident closing down the largest (or only) LH2 refinery? <BR>
Starships that can refine their own fuel are okay, but the local economy is <BR>
hard hit. The government might be tempted to seize ships in port to use <BR>
their on board fuel plants. However, the Imperial Governor/rep  warns of <BR>
the consequences of such an interference in interstellar trade.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3042<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3043</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/13/00 7:55:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 13 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3043<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Language (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names<BR>
Re: IOU<BR>
RE: the endless September<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
Re: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
Re: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
Re: Question<BR>
Re: Place Names<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
RE: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:35:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:12:09 PST<BR>
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> BTW, I have a Yoyodyne coffee mug...<BR>
><BR>
> Oh, covet covet *covet*.<BR>
<BR>
All you need to do is find another ex-employee who doesn't want his. <g><BR>
<BR>
Seriously, I bought it in the dealer room at the local SF con.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:41:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> I don't have any place to store that much. Apartments suck...<BR>
><BR>
> Been there and understand.  Although a good quantity of preserved food<BR>
> (freeze dried) can be stored in a closet. Naturally, cost is an issue.  And<BR>
> even a couple of weeks of canned food, though not of ideal variety, can be<BR>
> purchase and stored at moderate cost and space.<BR>
<BR>
I wish I'd been able to get in on a deal a friend hit. He saw a<BR>
neighbor dumping grain from a number 10 can to feed birds. Turned out<BR>
some relative of the guy had died and left behind a cabin stuffed with<BR>
cans of NitroPak grain, and various other survival goodies. And the<BR>
neighbor hadn't seen anything better to do with it than feed the birds<BR>
with the grain. <BR>
<BR>
My friend bought the cans from him for something like a $1 a can...<BR>
Arrggh!<BR>
<BR>
>> And for that matter until not all that long ago I couldn't afford that<BR>
>> much food.<BR>
>><BR>
>>> One natural disaster is all it takes. Besides, what's Costco for<BR>
>>> anyway?<BR>
>><BR>
>> It's for folks with money. Poor folks can't use it.<BR>
><BR>
> Unfortunately, the abjectly poor will fall victim to any disaster that cuts<BR>
> off supplies, along with the rich and unprepared.  How much will a can of<BR>
> beans be worth, when there are no more cans being delivered?<BR>
<BR>
Also, as Kiri noted, it's for folks with cars.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, I'm spoiled, I live *literally* next door to an Albertson's.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:49:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> True; OTOH, cats are an effective predator (probably more so than all<BR>
>> but the smallest dogs) against disease vector vermin (such as various<BR>
>> rodents).  If Hard Times strike, I want a few cats around my village....<BR>
><BR>
> Hey, they're competing with you for food.  There's nothing like a nice plumb<BR>
> "miller".<BR>
<BR>
No thanks. They are almost as bad as pig or long pig as far as the risk<BR>
of catching something. On shipboard, back then in the days of sail, any<BR>
that were carrying anything  would be dead before the voyage was very<BR>
far along. <BR>
<BR>
In an urban area, or even a farm? No way. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:00:18 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 01:48:32 +0100<BR>
"Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> posted:<BR>
<BR>
>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
>><BR>
>> How do _you_ think you should say "Wanganui" or "Whakatane" ?<BR>
>><BR>
>> Frankie<BR>
><BR>
>Ok, I'll give it a go [and look like an idiot <g>]<BR>
><BR>
>"One-ga-noo-ee"<BR>
><BR>
>"Wa-ka-ta-knee"<BR>
><BR>
>Matt<BR>
>(expecting 0/2...)<BR>
<BR>
To date, no-one has let Matt know how his pronounciation went.<BR>
I'm not a kiwi (New Zealander), but I was last there in February, so I'll give<BR>
it a go.<BR>
<BR>
Matt gets 1/2. You got Wanganui spot on. However, in NZ a "Wh" at the start of a<BR>
word is pronounced "ph" (as in 'phone').<BR>
<BR>
So "Whakatane" becomes "Pha-ka-ta-nee".<BR>
<BR>
(Any locals are welcome to correct me if I'm wrong)<BR>
Graeme<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
######################################################################<BR>
Attention: <BR>
This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the <BR>
intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. <BR>
Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.<BR>
######################################################################<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:09:47 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
"Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
<BR>
> True.  Although modern western citizens are probably more vulnerable<BR>
> to deprivation, having never known it.  At least I'd say that's true<BR>
> of Americans.  In the UK you still have people who survived WWII and<BR>
> the Blitz. Here we have the depression survivors who are fewer and<BR>
> fewer.  Most people in the US have known nothing but relatively good<BR>
> times.<BR>
> <BR>
> Besides, this is the country where fans riot when their local sports<BR>
> team wins the big game.  What will they do when the stores say "sorry,<BR>
> no food today?".<BR>
<BR>
There may be some truth in the first part, but fan riots are global, <BR>
and the ones in the US are *way* less serious than some of the <BR>
soccer riots in Central & South America.  Folks get killed down <BR>
there regularly.  <BR>
<BR>
Back to Traveller, that could make a good diversion for PC to deal <BR>
with.  <BR>
<BR>
"I'm sorry, the port and in fact most of the city is closed today, the <BR>
Rhylanor Tree-Rats just won the Spinward Marches grav ball <BR>
championship and there is currently a large celebration <aka <BR>
massive riot> going on throughout the capital city.  We fully expect <BR>
to reopen the port within 3 days.  Until that time, travelers are <BR>
advised to stay in their hotel rooms..."<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:11:24 -0700<BR>
From: Bill <beast@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
>Bill wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
><<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Actually Cats serve a very useful purpose. At least around my<BR>
> > apartment complex. The pet owners leave dry cat food in dishes<BR>
> > outside their back doors. This has the effect of attracting less<BR>
> > domesticated animals, raccoons, beaver, nutria and possum, all of<BR>
> > which will sustain a body, as well as provide some pelts for trading.<BR>
> > Since I live on an upper floor I obviously have a high ground<BR>
> > advantage over the other residents in my complex.<BR>
><BR>
>"Nutria"?  Do you live in Louisiana, sir?  If so, in which city/parish?<BR>
>(I live in Baton Rouge, LA.)  Should we try to get together for some<BR>
>Traveller?<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
No... I'm not sure of the origin (probably transplanted) but I am a <BR>
native Pacific Norwester<BR>
<BR>
But who know... If you are ever in Oregon perhaps you might sit in <BR>
with our traveller group perchance to game.<BR>
We have a website with all sorts of details about our games<BR>
www.travellercentral.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:13:38 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names<BR>
<BR>
> Well, back here in the Montreal region of Quebec, we have a couple of<BR>
> cute ones.  Pierrefonds (where my fiancie hails from) translates to<BR>
> english as Rock Bottom, and especially delightful is Lachine. <BR>
<BR>
Ah, Ross, how could you forget the inimitable "Saint Louis-de-Ha-Ha!"  I<BR>
swear I am not making it up.  It's an actual town in New Brunswick,<BR>
complete with the exclamation mark.  <BR>
<BR>
Then, as far as "risque" names go, there's the town of Dildo,<BR>
Newfoundland.  Apparently Newfies...er...Newfoundlanders have the most<BR>
frequent sex of any peoples in Canada. Why does that not surprise me?<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  Ah, who am I kidding?! :-)<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:13:09 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: IOU<BR>
<BR>
I thought you guys all knew. IOU has its own pocket universe, accesable from <BR>
just about anywhere, given the right technology.<BR>
<BR>
I have that straight from the dean of admissions, who shows up for the SJ <BR>
Games' stockholders' meetings . . .<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:17:55 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: the endless September<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) puts on the ether:<BR>
>They offered newsgroups in the early to mid 90s. That's when the<BR>
>"cluesless newbies" failed to go away by the end of September, because<BR>
>AOL was letting their customers onto the net with *no* pointers,<BR>
>guidelines, or attempts to make them adhere to long established rules<BR>
>of behavior.<BR>
<BR>
This is patently not true. Though no great fan of AOL I was on AOL at that<BR>
time. The service had more than adequate guidelines posted for the newbies.<BR>
There were quite specific instructions and explanations of "netiquette" and<BR>
instructions on how reasonable people behaved in newsgroups. This even<BR>
included advice in reading FAQ lists and in lurking on the lists for a while<BR>
to see how it should be done.<BR>
<BR>
Of course this was ignored by the users. How many other ISP's take action to<BR>
deal with such rude people who post from their service? No, the problem with<BR>
AOL's opening of the internet was that up until this time the net was<BR>
limited to people who were pretty much highly technical and fairly well<BR>
educated. It was an exclusive club. After AOL opened the net this was no<BR>
longer true.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:33:43 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Along those lines, recently I've been inspired by a Canadian Geographic<BR>
> issue highlighting the role bees play in modern fruit farming. It could<BR>
> make an interesting adventure sideline when the bee control system go<BR>
> awry on the agricultural station...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
A lot of the problem is getting the bees there in the first place...AFAIK bees do<BR>
not take well to zero-g...<BR>
<BR>
"the bees! ...the son-of-a-b****ing bees!<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:23:32 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Leonard wrote:<BR>
>> I somehow think that the average Droyne's reaction to Yaskoydray would<BR>
>> be similar to the average human's reaction to Ditzie...<BR>
><BR>
>You meam falling to their knees and chanting "We're not worthy" while<BR>
>touching their heads to the ground? :-)<BR>
<BR>
If the PC's in my campaign ever meet him, I'll let you know. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
In the meantime...<BR>
<BR>
Just jumped back onto the list briefly to see how things are going. I'm back<BR>
from a month's leave, during which (15/08/2000) we've had a new bouncing baby<BR>
boy named Robert Edward. Mother and child both doing well. He is child #3, so<BR>
the rest of us are still getting used to the idea, but apart from a case of<BR>
reflux it looks like he's settling in nicely.<BR>
<BR>
Oh yeah, birth weight 3345g = 3.345 kg = 7 lb 6 oz, in case you were interested<BR>
- - or is this the topic of another discussion thread?? ;-) ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:55:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Christopher Thrash wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:58:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
>> > From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
>> > Subject: Naming patterns<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > Or my favorite California placename, "Los Osos" ("The Bears").  Easy to<BR>
>> > say, hard to tell when to stop. :)  (My second favorite is "Yreka", but<BR>
>> > only because it sets up the beautifully palindromic "Yreka Bakery" <BR>
> there.)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> My personal favorite is Parumph. I was quite surprised to discover that<BR>
>> the "Parumphian People's Militia" at the National Training Center had any<BR>
>> connection with reality.<BR>
><BR>
> My personal favorite term for a fictional OPFOR (that's "Opposing<BR>
> Force", for you civilians) is the "Pineland Liberation Front" from<BR>
> Exercise Robin Sage, an ongoing series of exercises run near Ft. Bragg<BR>
> (the one in North Carolina).  The acronym, PLF, is a common one at Ft.<BR>
> Bragg, since it also stands for "Parachute Landing Fall."<BR>
<BR>
There used to be an Army manual about "Esperanto: The Agressor<BR>
Language". Not what you'd think from the title. It wasn't (as many<BR>
people had assumed) about Esperanto trying to "corrupt" people. <BR>
<BR>
It was about using Esperanto as a language for the aggressor force in<BR>
excercises. I forget the name of the country (Oceania?), but among the<BR>
other info for people to memorize for use if they were captured was the<BR>
name of their leader "Emil Granfratro" ("granfratro" is Esperanto for<BR>
"Big Brother")<BR>
<BR>
As for OPFOR names, perhaps some fan of "ancient classics" will use<BR>
Klingon Empire and Romulan Empire. <g><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:03:02 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 8:09:pm<BR>
Subject: RE: Doshes - (was: Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > Yeah, us whingers still use the term 'dosh' as slang for<BR>
> > money...in the<BR>
> > shandy-drinking south anyway. I don't know what the Real Men<BR>
> > of Yorkshire<BR>
> > and Lancashire call it ;)<BR>
><BR>
> 'Brass', as in "Wer thers muck, thers brass!"<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
There you go!  We use 'brass' to refer to small change (originally because<BR>
our defunked copper coins were of that brass/copper colour).  When you clean<BR>
out your pocket of small change, you might end up giving the kids some<BR>
"brass" to buy lollies with...<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:08:58 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 10:27:pm<BR>
Subject: RE: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
> > With a slight lean on current events in the UK, a post mostly<BR>
> > Ob Trav...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Topical in Australia at the moment also!  The government is under<BR>
pressure...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> > <Message begins><BR>
> ><BR>
> > [Newsflash]<BR>
> > Terra 021-1123<BR>
> ><BR>
> > The system was dragged to a standstill today, as blockades continued<BR>
> > into their third day. The protesters, angry at ever<BR>
> > increasing prices for<BR>
> > refined fuel, continued their 'peaceful' protest surrounding<BR>
> > the manifold<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:25:33 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Question<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/13/00 3:53:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lkw@io.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
> For no particular reason (at least none I'm going to tell right now), I<BR>
>  need to know if canon ever mentioned any specific dates for the birthdays<BR>
>  of:<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Strephon and the Imperial Family (I think Lucan's b-day is 301), and any<BR>
>  other noble.<BR>
<BR>
The essay on the Imperial Nobility in Supplement 11 cites Strephon's<BR>
birthday as being Day 202.  I can't find any oher birthday references.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:24:01 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
I once drove through Podunk, somewhere in the FingerLakes region of NY<BR>
State.  What does that mean, exactly?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:22:37 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Loren asked:<BR>
>For no particular reason (at least none I'm going to tell right now), I<BR>
>need to know if canon ever mentioned any specific dates for the birthdays<BR>
>of:<BR>
><BR>
>Strephon and the Imperial Family (I think Lucan's b-day is 301), and any<BR>
>other noble.<BR>
<BR>
Strephon's birthday is certainly mentioned as part of a discussion about the<BR>
Imperial Calender, since every Emperor's birthday is a holiday. Can't remember<BR>
what book, however, and they are all at home at the moment. I'll see if I can<BR>
find it later. Heck, it may even be in one of the Digest's "Q&A" articles.<BR>
<BR>
As for Ciencia, I'd look at Digest #9, where the PC's are "hired" by Strephon to<BR>
give her a surprise birthday party. Just look at the starting date for the<BR>
adventure, then add whatever number of days seems fair from reading the<BR>
scenario.<BR>
<BR>
As for copyright, the use of this sort of backround data is specifically allowed<BR>
by Mr Sanger - I've just been going through my archives and found his old post<BR>
on the topic. The Digest Q&As are certainly usable under the terms of the<BR>
original agreement, AND additionally usable since every answer was vetted<BR>
personally by Marc (according to the blurb).<BR>
<BR>
So, I take it that you are going to follow the tradition introduced in the<BR>
"Family d'Alembert" series and have Strephon abdicate in favour of Ciencia,<BR>
maybe on her 32nd birthday in 1121?? He'll be 71...  ;-) ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:36:15 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 8:01:am<BR>
Subject: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 02:48 PM 9/13/00 -0500, Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >Please give the source if available. Thank you. I now return you to your<BR>
> >normal discussion of how many penguins can dance on a pinhead, and why<BR>
the<BR>
> >pinhead doesn't shoo them away.<BR>
><BR>
> Being relatively new to the list I must ask what is the big deal about<BR>
> penguins?<BR>
><BR>
> Why would penguins (or Angels for that matter) want to dnace on the heads<BR>
> of pins?<BR>
><BR>
> Why can't they remain on top of the telly where they belong?<BR>
><BR>
> Les<BR>
<BR>
And are they really smart enough to put red rubber gloves (not white gloves,<BR>
that's a different thread...) on top of their heads?  Hmmmnh??<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:25:36 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
In reply to Les' question:<BR>
>Why would penguins (or Angels for that matter) want to dnace on the heads<BR>
>of pins?<BR>
><BR>
>Why can't they remain on top of the telly where they belong?<BR>
<BR>
In a word: Explosives.<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:34:07 +1100 (EST)<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
<BR>
Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > I remember seeing the distinctive BD look for the first time in<BR>
the<BR>
> > Spinward Marches Campaign, which was published well before MT. <BR>
It<BR>
> > included "action shots" as well as full page diagrams if I<BR>
remember<BR>
> > correctly (which I thought very cool).<BR>
> <BR>
> Yep, you're rght.<BR>
> Though I always thought they stole the design from Paranoia when I<BR>
first saw<BR>
> it.<BR>
<BR>
I never got the time or opportunity to play Paranoia, but from what I<BR>
read in the gaming mags of the time, it looked like fun.<BR>
<BR>
> > I don't recall seeing any<BR>
> > pictures of BD in Book 4 at all.  Are you sure you are mean<BR>
> > Book4/Mercenary?<BR>
> <BR>
> Book 4 has a trooper in a combat environment suit. Many people<BR>
thought that<BR>
> this _was_<BR>
> battledress at the time.<BR>
<BR>
Ah...<BR>
<BR>
> I used to wear ex-British Army battledress ( merely a khaki,<BR>
many-pocketed<BR>
> heavy wool jacket and trousers) so it's easy to see why people<BR>
would think<BR>
> this. It wasn't until later that the word "battledress" became<BR>
synonymous<BR>
> with "Imperial Marine Combat Armour"<BR>
<BR>
I still get weird mental images of guys in hard suits when I'm<BR>
reading something and they refer to battledress.  I guess it gives my<BR>
origins away.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Craig.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au>  <craig_barnett@iname.com><BR>
Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________________________<BR>
http://geocities.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Australia & NZ GeoCities<BR>
- - Build your own Web Site - for free!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:54:06 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 7:15:am<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Actually in Japanese cities most people don't have a lot of food stored up<BR>
> either-- because they don't have cars OR storage space (which I also don't<BR>
> have...)<BR>
<BR>
Many of the Japanese students that we have stay with us are amazed that our<BR>
grocery stores are so big and that we can fill the boot (errrr... trunk in<BR>
America?) with bags of groceries that cover our kitchen floor before being<BR>
packed away - we shop fortnightly for a family of six.  They even take pics<BR>
of the unpacked stuff to show the folks at home!!!<BR>
<BR>
As Kiri says, the tell us that mum may walk to the local store where they<BR>
have known the owner forever, have a chat, buy the tin of bamboo shoots,<BR>
take it home and use it that night... then the next day, mum may walk to the<BR>
local store where they have known the owner forever, have a chat, buy the<BR>
tin of bamboo shoots, take it home and use it that night... then the next<BR>
day...<BR>
<BR>
We on the otherhand, tend to buy an extra tin of peas, or bag of frozen<BR>
beans or whatever, and when the stock gets to large, simply stop buying that<BR>
stuff for a while... we could last an extra week easily... and have been<BR>
forced to do so when the missus was sacked over the Christmas period when<BR>
her workplace management changed hands.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:55:07 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
Leslie Bates wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Being relatively new to the list I must ask what is the big deal about<BR>
> penguins?<BR>
> <BR>
> Why would penguins (or Angels for that matter) want to dnace on the heads<BR>
> of pins?<BR>
> <BR>
> Why can't they remain on top of the telly where they belong?<BR>
<BR>
Because the vicious brutes are keen to attack whenever they sense an<BR>
opening.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm<BR>
<BR>
Note the sixth photograph (i.e., not including the Ditzie sketch) from<BR>
the top.  This naked aggression surely justifies the regrettable acts in<BR>
the seventh photo.  As I was the target of the penguin attack in<BR>
question (as a US Army paratrooper, I felt that it was my duty to stand<BR>
as a bulwark defending the civilian party attendees against the Penguin<BR>
Menace), I am uniquely qualified to comment on the warmongering nature<BR>
of penguins in Traveller.  Observe that the penguin attacked (photo #6),<BR>
and only later was subjected to entirely justified interrogation (photo<BR>
#7).<BR>
<BR>
Naturally, apologists for the Penguin Menace will point to the so-called<BR>
"crude propaganda" of Jesse's drawing (the first picture of the above<BR>
page's series) as a justification for penguin aggression against TML<BR>
members.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, given the Penguin Menace's propensity for violence, I am<BR>
proud that one of my posts led to Doug's long-awaited beverage<BR>
counterattack against the ancestral foe.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3043<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3044</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/13/00 10:29:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 14 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3044<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Language (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Place Names<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
RE: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Question<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:52:11 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
On 14 Sep 2000, at 12:00, Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 01:48:32 +0100<BR>
> "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> posted:<BR>
> <BR>
> >- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> >From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
> >><BR>
> >> How do _you_ think you should say "Wanganui" or "Whakatane" ?<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> Frankie<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Ok, I'll give it a go [and look like an idiot <g>]<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"One-ga-noo-ee"<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"Wa-ka-ta-knee"<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Matt<BR>
> >(expecting 0/2...)<BR>
> <BR>
> To date, no-one has let Matt know how his pronounciation went.<BR>
> I'm not a kiwi (New Zealander), but I was last there in February, so I'll give<BR>
> it a go.<BR>
> <BR>
> Matt gets 1/2. You got Wanganui spot on. <BR>
<BR>
Sort of. The city's name is spelt Wanganui, and is usually pronounced "Wong-gan-<BR>
ooee". However it was actually miss-spelt and should be spelt like the river <BR>
that runs by it, the Whanganui.<BR>
<BR>
>However, in NZ a "Wh" at the start of a<BR>
> word is pronounced "ph" (as in 'phone').<BR>
> <BR>
> So "Whakatane" becomes "Pha-ka-ta-nee".<BR>
<BR>
Not quite. These days the 'Wh' is often pronounced as a hard 'f' sound, which <BR>
is IIRC correct Moari pronunciation in the south of the North Island. However <BR>
the correct sound everywhere else is a cross between the softer 'ph' sound and <BR>
a 'w' sound. Remember that the spellings were chosen by English missonaries, <BR>
etc. to reflect how they heard the words, and therefore are actually fairly <BR>
phonetic.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:52:11 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
<BR>
On 13 Sep 2000, at 17:55, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> There used to be an Army manual about "Esperanto: The Agressor<BR>
> Language". Not what you'd think from the title. It wasn't (as many<BR>
> people had assumed) about Esperanto trying to "corrupt" people. <BR>
> <BR>
> It was about using Esperanto as a language for the aggressor force in<BR>
> excercises. I forget the name of the country (Oceania?), but among the<BR>
> other info for people to memorize for use if they were captured was the<BR>
> name of their leader "Emil Granfratro" ("granfratro" is Esperanto for<BR>
> "Big Brother")<BR>
<BR>
The name could have been Colchis, used in NZ as a fictitious pacfic island, and <BR>
IIRC it was a 'standard' for ANZUS when we were still in it. Another enemy was <BR>
the 'Missourans' who were thinly disguised Indonesians with a streamlined TO <BR>
and more consistently Russian gear.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:52:11 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
On 13 Sep 2000, at 17:49, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> No thanks. They are almost as bad as pig or long pig as far as the risk<BR>
> of catching something.<BR>
<BR>
With pigs at least the 'secret' is simply to be careful in handling the carcass <BR>
and to cook the meat until it is well done all the way through. This really <BR>
means that if it's at all dubious it should be stewed, not grilled or fried.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:59:31 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
On 14 Sep 2000, at 12:54, The Roc wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Many of the Japanese students that we have stay with us are amazed that our<BR>
> grocery stores are so big and that we can fill the boot (errrr... trunk in<BR>
> America?) with bags of groceries that cover our kitchen floor before being<BR>
> packed away - we shop fortnightly for a family of six.  They even take pics of<BR>
> the unpacked stuff to show the folks at home!!!<BR>
<BR>
Living in a city (and having had no money for five years) I've fallen out of <BR>
the habit.<BR>
<BR>
> As Kiri says, the tell us that mum may walk to the local store where they<BR>
> have known the owner forever, have a chat, buy the tin of bamboo shoots,<BR>
> take it home and use it that night... then the next day, mum may walk to the<BR>
> local store where they have known the owner forever, have a chat, buy the tin of<BR>
> bamboo shoots, take it home and use it that night... then the next day...<BR>
> <BR>
> We on the otherhand, tend to buy an extra tin of peas, or bag of frozen<BR>
> beans or whatever, and when the stock gets to large, simply stop buying that<BR>
> stuff for a while... we could last an extra week easily... and have been forced<BR>
> to do so when the missus was sacked over the Christmas period when her workplace<BR>
> management changed hands.<BR>
<BR>
My parents live on a 'lifestyle block' of ten acres (four hectares, from <BR>
memory), and have a variety of meat animals and a large vegetable garden. In a <BR>
productive year they have so much meat, even after selling most of the surplus <BR>
stock at auction, giving away food to thier children (one of the things I miss <BR>
now that I live 100 miles away), etc. that they have two chest freezers to <BR>
store it all in.<BR>
<BR>
One of father's worries is that if the power goes out for any length of time <BR>
the neighbours won't be albe to take the surplus because they've all got <BR>
similar stocks and he'll have to dig a large hole and bury it all.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:42:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> Aren't plasma and fusion guns personal *energy* weapons?<BR>
>> Nope.<BR>
><BR>
> Alright, looks like I'm going to have to run out the canons. It's time for<BR>
> a Referencewar!<BR>
><BR>
> High Guard? Pg 18. "Energy weapons (which include plasma guns and fusion<BR>
> guns) fire a highly energised beam of ionized (sic) gas at the<BR>
> target....Energy weapons inflict surface damage."<BR>
<BR>
> On the same page: "Particle Accelerators charge and accelerate electrons or<BR>
> hydrogen nuclei to high velocities towards targets. Hits produce surface<BR>
> damage and radiation effects."<BR>
<BR>
To quote Lincoln: "Calling a leg a tail doesn't make it one."<BR>
<BR>
Lasers are energy weapons. Fusion guns and plasma guns are plasma<BR>
weapons. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 19:40:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> **WARNING: PG-13 post follows**<BR>
><BR>
> On the subject of place names:<BR>
><BR>
> During my travels through these United States, I have encountered<BR>
> several place names that could be considered risque....<BR>
><BR>
> <<two friends conversing>><BR>
><BR>
> "Hey, why do you look so down?  What's wrong?"<BR>
><BR>
> "My girlfirend dumped me."<BR>
><BR>
> "Any idea why?"<BR>
><BR>
> "Yeah, she found out that I'm from Short Pump, Virginia.  Now she's<BR>
> dating some guy from French Lick, Indiana."<BR>
><BR>
> ObTrav:  There just _have_ to be place names on various worlds into<BR>
> which one can read sexual innuendo, where none was intended....<BR>
<BR>
You mean places like Intercourse, PA?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:06:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Along those lines, recently I've been inspired by a Canadian Geographic<BR>
>> issue highlighting the role bees play in modern fruit farming. It could<BR>
>> make an interesting adventure sideline when the bee control system go<BR>
>> awry on the agricultural station...<BR>
><BR>
> A lot of the problem is getting the bees there in the first place...AFAIK <BR>
> bees do not take well to zero-g...<BR>
<BR>
Ag stations would likely use spin gravity. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:11:01 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The parody name Pynchon used for his perpetually<BR>
>shafted defense contractor was "Yoyodyne".  (Now, for bonus points, name a<BR>
>film appearance of the name "Yoyodyne".)<BR>
<BR>
Now if you REALLY want to impress us with your knowledge of arcane facts,<BR>
name the TV series it regularly appeared in; and WHERE.<BR>
<BR>
Graeme<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
######################################################################<BR>
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Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:21:02 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
Oops! Mark Urbin beat me to the post!<BR>
<BR>
Yoyodyne was (as he said) often on Star Trek. As one of the main contractors<BR>
used in the construction<BR>
of the Enterprise-D it appeared in almost every episode (on a plaque at the back<BR>
of the bridge).     : - )<BR>
<BR>
OK, I need to get a life.<BR>
<BR>
Graeme<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:44:56 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 11:13:am<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > Well, back here in the Montreal region of Quebec, we have a couple of<BR>
> > cute ones.  Pierrefonds (where my fiancie hails from) translates to<BR>
> > english as Rock Bottom, and especially delightful is Lachine.<BR>
><BR>
> Ah, Ross, how could you forget the inimitable "Saint Louis-de-Ha-Ha!"  I<BR>
> swear I am not making it up.  It's an actual town in New Brunswick,<BR>
> complete with the exclamation mark.<BR>
><BR>
> Then, as far as "risque" names go, there's the town of Dildo,<BR>
> Newfoundland.  Apparently Newfies...er...Newfoundlanders have the most<BR>
> frequent sex of any peoples in Canada. Why does that not surprise me?<BR>
><BR>
> ObTrav:  Ah, who am I kidding?! :-)<BR>
><BR>
> Charles C.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Okay, this did the e-mail rounds a month or so ago (C&P'ed as delivered), I<BR>
suppose not everyone did get them?  And as for an ObTrav, I would guess<BR>
these places could still exist on the Solomani Earth?<BR>
<BR>
Nobber (Donegal, Ireland)<BR>
Arsoli (Lazio, Italy)<BR>
Muff (Northern Ireland - it must be on the coast, I've heard a lot about<BR>
diving there...)<BR>
Bastard (Norway)<BR>
Twatt (Shetland, UK)<BR>
Twatt (Orkney, UK)<BR>
Dildo (Newfoundland, Canada)<BR>
Wankie (Zimbabwe)<BR>
Climax (Colorado, USA)<BR>
Lickey End (West Midlands, UK)<BR>
Shafter (California, USA)<BR>
Dongo (Congo - Democratic Republic - Dongo Congo??? You're kidding right??)<BR>
Dong Rack (Thailand-Cambodia border)<BR>
Donk (Belgium)<BR>
Intercourse (Pennsylvania, USA)<BR>
Brown Willy (every schoolboy's favourite, Cornwall, UK)<BR>
Lord Berkeley's Knob (Sutherland, Scotland)<BR>
Shitlingthorpe (Yorkshire, UK)<BR>
Stains (Near Paris, France)<BR>
Seymen (Turkey)<BR>
Turdo (Romania)<BR>
Fukum (Yemen)<BR>
Fukue (Honshu, Japan)<BR>
Fukui (Honshu, Japan)<BR>
Fuku (Shensi, China)<BR>
Wankie Colliery (Zimbabwe)<BR>
Wanks River (Nicaragua)<BR>
Wankendorf (Schleswig-Holstein, Germany)<BR>
Wankener (India)<BR>
Shag Island (Indian Ocean)<BR>
Sexmoan (Luzon, Philippines)<BR>
Short Pump, Virginia<BR>
French Lick, Indiana<BR>
Hold With Hope (Greenland)<BR>
Beaver (Oklahoma, USA)<BR>
Beaver Head (Idaho, USA)<BR>
Wet Beaver Creek (Australia)<BR>
Pis Pis River (Nicaragua)<BR>
Tittybong (Australia)<BR>
Dikshit (India)<BR>
Middle Intercourse Island (Australia)<BR>
Chinaman's Knob (Australia)<BR>
Gross Titte, La (is that the count available or state of freshness?)<BR>
Cross Crotch, Tx (nuttin worse that a mad pussy, huh?)<BR>
Cut N Shoot, Tx<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 20:08:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> What about an accident closing down the largest (or only) LH2 refinery? <BR>
> Starships that can refine their own fuel are okay, but the local economy is <BR>
> hard hit. The government might be tempted to seize ships in port to use <BR>
> their on board fuel plants. However, the Imperial Governor/rep  warns of <BR>
> the consequences of such an interference in interstellar trade.<BR>
<BR>
Hydrogen needs for power are actually pretty damn small. <BR>
<BR>
In any case, "refining" isn't that hard to do. You could rig up a<BR>
workable setup in your garage. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:02:48 -0500<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
For your edification, please add the following two entries<BR>
to this display of exotic nominclature:<BR>
<BR>
Tighwad, Missouri, USA<BR>
Leathelips, North Carolina, USA<BR>
<BR>
Enjoy<BR>
Pat<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: The Roc <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 10:44 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 11:13:am<BR>
> Subject: Re: Weird Place Names<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > > Well, back here in the Montreal region of Quebec, we have a couple of<BR>
> > > cute ones.  Pierrefonds (where my fiancie hails from) translates to<BR>
> > > english as Rock Bottom, and especially delightful is Lachine.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Ah, Ross, how could you forget the inimitable "Saint Louis-de-Ha-Ha!"  I<BR>
> > swear I am not making it up.  It's an actual town in New Brunswick,<BR>
> > complete with the exclamation mark.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Then, as far as "risque" names go, there's the town of Dildo,<BR>
> > Newfoundland.  Apparently Newfies...er...Newfoundlanders have the most<BR>
> > frequent sex of any peoples in Canada. Why does that not surprise me?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ObTrav:  Ah, who am I kidding?! :-)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Charles C.<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> Okay, this did the e-mail rounds a month or so ago (C&P'ed as delivered),<BR>
I<BR>
> suppose not everyone did get them?  And as for an ObTrav, I would guess<BR>
> these places could still exist on the Solomani Earth?<BR>
><BR>
> Nobber (Donegal, Ireland)<BR>
> Arsoli (Lazio, Italy)<BR>
> Muff (Northern Ireland - it must be on the coast, I've heard a lot about<BR>
> diving there...)<BR>
> Bastard (Norway)<BR>
> Twatt (Shetland, UK)<BR>
> Twatt (Orkney, UK)<BR>
> Dildo (Newfoundland, Canada)<BR>
> Wankie (Zimbabwe)<BR>
> Climax (Colorado, USA)<BR>
> Lickey End (West Midlands, UK)<BR>
> Shafter (California, USA)<BR>
> Dongo (Congo - Democratic Republic - Dongo Congo??? You're kidding<BR>
right??)<BR>
> Dong Rack (Thailand-Cambodia border)<BR>
> Donk (Belgium)<BR>
> Intercourse (Pennsylvania, USA)<BR>
> Brown Willy (every schoolboy's favourite, Cornwall, UK)<BR>
> Lord Berkeley's Knob (Sutherland, Scotland)<BR>
> Shitlingthorpe (Yorkshire, UK)<BR>
> Stains (Near Paris, France)<BR>
> Seymen (Turkey)<BR>
> Turdo (Romania)<BR>
> Fukum (Yemen)<BR>
> Fukue (Honshu, Japan)<BR>
> Fukui (Honshu, Japan)<BR>
> Fuku (Shensi, China)<BR>
> Wankie Colliery (Zimbabwe)<BR>
> Wanks River (Nicaragua)<BR>
> Wankendorf (Schleswig-Holstein, Germany)<BR>
> Wankener (India)<BR>
> Shag Island (Indian Ocean)<BR>
> Sexmoan (Luzon, Philippines)<BR>
> Short Pump, Virginia<BR>
> French Lick, Indiana<BR>
> Hold With Hope (Greenland)<BR>
> Beaver (Oklahoma, USA)<BR>
> Beaver Head (Idaho, USA)<BR>
> Wet Beaver Creek (Australia)<BR>
> Pis Pis River (Nicaragua)<BR>
> Tittybong (Australia)<BR>
> Dikshit (India)<BR>
> Middle Intercourse Island (Australia)<BR>
> Chinaman's Knob (Australia)<BR>
> Gross Titte, La (is that the count available or state of freshness?)<BR>
> Cross Crotch, Tx (nuttin worse that a mad pussy, huh?)<BR>
> Cut N Shoot, Tx<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:56:55 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
The Grand Tetons<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:07:39 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/13/00 6:55:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
ajackson@molly.iii.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Including normal in-home reserves, it's probably more like 7-10 days.  Some<BR>
 areas which are prone to natural disasters try to encourage more storage<BR>
 (for example, California tries to encourage earthquake preparations) but<BR>
 I don't think any of them have been hugely successful.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
Of course, living in the desert and being quite fat, I'm much more terrified <BR>
of the water going dry...:-(<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:08:06 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 14 September 2000 14:08<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > What about an accident closing down the largest (or only) <BR>
> LH2 refinery? <BR>
> > Starships that can refine their own fuel are okay, but the <BR>
> local economy is <BR>
> > hard hit. The government might be tempted to seize ships in <BR>
> port to use <BR>
> > their on board fuel plants. However, the Imperial <BR>
> Governor/rep  warns of <BR>
> > the consequences of such an interference in interstellar trade.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hydrogen needs for power are actually pretty damn small. <BR>
> <BR>
> In any case, "refining" isn't that hard to do. You could rig up a<BR>
> workable setup in your garage. <BR>
<BR>
How about compressing the H2 into liquid?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:18:48 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Question<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/13/00 7:53:50 PM !!!First Boot!!!, lkw@io.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< For no particular reason (at least none I'm going to tell right now), I<BR>
 need to know if canon ever mentioned any specific dates for the birthdays<BR>
 of:<BR>
 <BR>
 Strephon and the Imperial Family (I think Lucan's b-day is 301), and any<BR>
 other noble. >><BR>
<BR>
Strephon:  <BR>
<BR>
"the Birthday List is published on the Emperor's birthday (Strephon's is day <BR>
202) and covers awards for service." This quote is from the LBB Supplement 11 <BR>
Library Data (N-Z), page # 37.<BR>
<BR>
His year of birth is 1049, taken from LBB Supplement 8 Library Data (A-M), <BR>
page # 47.<BR>
<BR>
G-D, I feel like a pompous ass quoting Traveller "scripture" to one of the <BR>
Great Old Ones...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:35:15 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/13/00 11:41:27 PM !!!First Boot!!!, wombat@premier.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< True; OTOH, cats are an effective predator (probably more so than all<BR>
 but the smallest dogs) against disease vector vermin (such as various<BR>
 rodents).  If Hard Times strike, I want a few cats around my village.... >><BR>
<BR>
my three spoiled heads wouldn't know what to do with a mouse, though if I cut <BR>
off the supply of Tender Vittles...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 00:39:57 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
<BR>
Congrads!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:15:45 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
on 9/13/00 5:58 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> "Nutria"?  Do you live in Louisiana, sir?  If so, in which city/parish?<BR>
> (I live in Baton Rouge, LA.)  Should we try to get together for some<BR>
> Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
We're in Portland, Oregon.  Yes, some fool decided it would be a good idea<BR>
to import nutria from the south to raise for fur.  Now we have giant<BR>
rat-looking critters running around.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:18:19 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
>> Unfortunately, the abjectly poor will fall victim to any disaster that cuts<BR>
>> off supplies, along with the rich and unprepared.  How much will a can of<BR>
>> beans be worth, when there are no more cans being delivered?<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, as Kiri noted, it's for folks with cars.<BR>
> <BR>
> Of course, I'm spoiled, I live *literally* next door to an Albertson's.<BR>
<BR>
Leonard.  If things get really ugly, We will make sure you survive.  I have<BR>
a feeling that you are one of those people who will have the arcane, obscure<BR>
knowledge that we'll need some day.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:12:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
>> 1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
><BR>
>Real hard to justify.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    How so, if White Globes are canon already?<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:29:02 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
<BR>
From: Terry Carlino <carlino@home.com><BR>
<BR>
>Derrick<BR>
><BR>
>Not very likely, in GT anyway. GT-Ultratech fusion plants use miniscule<BR>
>amounts of fuel. The Megacorps, IISS and the Imperial Navy are the major<BR>
>users of refined fuel. Private ship owners are a fraction of the total<BR>
>number of users of refined fuel. In tonnage their number is even smaller.<BR>
>The typical Imperial citizen is not likely to take notice of the price of<BR>
>fuel. Fusion is cheap power. On a planet making refined fuel is trivial if<BR>
>the planet has water. Even in space if a gas giant is present in the system<BR>
>it's just a matter of scooping it.<BR>
><BR>
>It's a good try but the entire basis of technology presupposes that energy<BR>
>is cheap and plentiful at GTL-10/12, at least in GT.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Correct, but then again we are talking about little mom & pop Free<BR>
Traders here.  Now using gas as an example, compared to Refined Hydrogen.<BR>
If RH costs $5,000/ton in the US, it costs about $15,000/ton in the UK (if I<BR>
have my figures right, my aunt just flew back & was amazed that gas cost<BR>
about a third here what it does in England).  So what this means is that<BR>
most Free Traders will have to risk their ship in fuel scooping from a Gas<BR>
Giant, or fuel scooping from an ocean.  Both, IIRC, are somewhat dangerous<BR>
for a standard Free Trader.<BR>
    For example, I remember running a MT game, straight, totally canon, no<BR>
fudging of the rolls by me, when the pilot of the groups Free Trader rolled<BR>
snake eyes on his atempt to refuel using a Gas Giant, killed everyone on<BR>
board.  Now, personally, I would not do this, unless I had any other choice,<BR>
but they were trying to save money.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3044<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3045</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/14/00 5:54:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 14 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3045<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Place Names and Pierrefonds<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
Re: Place Names and Pierrefonds<BR>
Re: IOU<BR>
RE: Question<BR>
RE: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
RE: Penguins?<BR>
RE: defence on the cheap<BR>
Annic Nova<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Place Names<BR>
Strephon's Birthday<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: IOU<BR>
Re: Place Names<BR>
Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
RE: Language (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
OPFOR<BR>
Re: Challenge index<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
RE: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
RE: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:30:17 -0400<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names and Pierrefonds<BR>
<BR>
on 9/13/00 7:38 PM, Guy Lemire at guylemire.associes@videotron.ca wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
>> Subject: Place Names<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Well, back here in the Montreal region of Quebec, we have a couple of cute<BR>
>> ones.  Pierrefonds (where my fiance hails from) translates to english as<BR>
>> Rock Bottom, and especially delightful is Lachine.<BR>
>> <BR>
> <BR>
> Hey-hey dont make fun of my hometown .(lol)<BR>
> <BR>
> If you really want to impress them try one of  those so many named after<BR>
> saints town that are 8+ word long .<BR>
<BR>
You wouldn't still happen to live in the area, do you?  I am considering<BR>
firing up the ol' Traveller campaign again, and it'd be nice to talk with<BR>
other locals.  (My gaming group consists of the characters depicted in the<BR>
GURPS: First In illo with the four dubious-looking sorts getting decorated<BR>
by s stuffy white guy that I suspect I should be offended concerning...<BR>
With friends like these, who needs any more trouble?)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn<BR>
coburn@sympatico.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:32:16 -0400<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names<BR>
<BR>
on 9/13/00 9:13 PM, Charles Collin at charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Well, back here in the Montreal region of Quebec, we have a couple of<BR>
>> cute ones.  Pierrefonds (where my fiancie hails from) translates to<BR>
>> english as Rock Bottom, and especially delightful is Lachine.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ah, Ross, how could you forget the inimitable "Saint Louis-de-Ha-Ha!"  I<BR>
> swear I am not making it up.  It's an actual town in New Brunswick,<BR>
> complete with the exclamation mark.<BR>
> <BR>
> Then, as far as "risque" names go, there's the town of Dildo,<BR>
> Newfoundland.  Apparently Newfies...er...Newfoundlanders have the most<BR>
> frequent sex of any peoples in Canada. Why does that not surprise me?<BR>
<BR>
You know, I was blissfully ignorant of those places.  Thanks a bundle,<BR>
Charles!  <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn<BR>
coburn@sympatico.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:34:38 -0400<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
on 9/13/00 10:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> Note the sixth photograph (i.e., not including the Ditzie sketch) from<BR>
> the top.  This naked aggression surely justifies the regrettable acts in<BR>
> the seventh photo.  As I was the target of the penguin attack in<BR>
> question (as a US Army paratrooper, I felt that it was my duty to stand<BR>
> as a bulwark defending the civilian party attendees against the Penguin<BR>
> Menace), I am uniquely qualified to comment on the warmongering nature<BR>
> of penguins in Traveller.  Observe that the penguin attacked (photo #6),<BR>
> and only later was subjected to entirely justified interrogation (photo<BR>
> #7).<BR>
<BR>
You know, I begin to suspect that I escaped from San Francisco at just about<BR>
the right time...  <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn<BR>
coburn@sympatico.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:29:51 -0400<BR>
From: "Guy Lemire" <guylemire.associes@videotron.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names and Pierrefonds<BR>
<BR>
You wouldn't still happen to live in the area, do you?  I am considering<BR>
firing up the ol' Traveller campaign again, and it'd be nice to talk with<BR>
other locals.  (My gaming group consists of the characters depicted in the<BR>
GURPS: First In illo with the four dubious-looking sorts getting decorated<BR>
by s stuffy white guy that I suspect I should be offended concerning...<BR>
With friends like these, who needs any more trouble?)<BR>
<BR>
  Yes I am , I`m moving but to an other part of Pierrefonds . I`d like to<BR>
play but I must admit I havent<BR>
played live in years (and only did so a few time) , I mostly did pbem (BBS<BR>
and net ) free form .<BR>
<BR>
Pat<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:55:23 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: IOU<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Loren wrote:<BR>
>I thought you guys all knew. IOU has its own pocket universe, accesable from<BR>
>just about anywhere, given the right technology.<BR>
<BR>
Pinched off by Yaskoydray? Grandfather's contribution to the safety of the<BR>
universe?<BR>
<BR>
>I have that straight from the dean of admissions, who shows up for the SJ<BR>
>Games' stockholders' meetings . . .<BR>
<BR>
Too bad the IOU worked out how to break out... ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:48:49 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Question<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 9/13/00 7:53:50 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
> lkw@io.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << For no particular reason (at least none I'm going to tell <BR>
> right now), I<BR>
>  need to know if canon ever mentioned any specific dates for <BR>
> the birthdays<BR>
>  of:<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Strephon and the Imperial Family (I think Lucan's b-day is <BR>
> 301), and any<BR>
>  other noble. >><BR>
> <BR>
> Strephon:  <BR>
> <BR>
> "the Birthday List is published on the Emperor's birthday <BR>
> (Strephon's is day <BR>
> 202) and covers awards for service." This quote is from the <BR>
> LBB Supplement 11 <BR>
> Library Data (N-Z), page # 37.<BR>
> <BR>
> His year of birth is 1049, taken from LBB Supplement 8 <BR>
> Library Data (A-M), <BR>
> page # 47.<BR>
> <BR>
> G-D, I feel like a pompous ass quoting Traveller "scripture" <BR>
> to one of the <BR>
> Great Old Ones...:-)<BR>
<BR>
Does theEmperor have just the one birthday, or an official birthday as well,<BR>
like the Queen?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:52:15 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Yeah, us whingers still use the term 'dosh' as slang for<BR>
> > > money...in the<BR>
> > > shandy-drinking south anyway. I don't know what the Real Men<BR>
> > > of Yorkshire<BR>
> > > and Lancashire call it ;)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > 'Brass', as in "Wer thers muck, thers brass!"<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> There you go!  We use 'brass' to refer to small change <BR>
> (originally because<BR>
> our defunked copper coins were of that brass/copper colour).  <BR>
> When you clean<BR>
> out your pocket of small change, you might end up giving the kids some<BR>
> "brass" to buy lollies with...<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Lollies?!?<BR>
<BR>
Just kidding :)<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:59:30 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> on 9/13/00 10:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:<BR>
>  <BR>
> > Note the sixth photograph (i.e., not including the Ditzie <BR>
> sketch) from<BR>
> > the top.  This naked aggression surely justifies the <BR>
> regrettable acts in<BR>
> > the seventh photo.  As I was the target of the penguin attack in<BR>
> > question (as a US Army paratrooper, I felt that it was my <BR>
> duty to stand<BR>
> > as a bulwark defending the civilian party attendees against <BR>
> the Penguin<BR>
> > Menace), I am uniquely qualified to comment on the <BR>
> warmongering nature<BR>
> > of penguins in Traveller.  Observe that the penguin <BR>
> attacked (photo #6),<BR>
> > and only later was subjected to entirely justified <BR>
> interrogation (photo<BR>
> > #7).<BR>
> <BR>
> You know, I begin to suspect that I escaped from San <BR>
> Francisco at just about<BR>
> the right time...  <g><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I thought one had to either Escape From New York or Escape From LA ? :)<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:32:38 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: defence on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
Actually the Australian Leopard is essentially the German 1A3 variant fitted<BR>
with spaced (though not chobham armour),a laser range finder probably making<BR>
them hybrid TL7/TL8 designs, which would be more than a match for anything<BR>
they are currently likely to face. In Australia mobility is very important.<BR>
<BR>
The main APC is the ubiquitous M113 with some odd variants like the one with<BR>
a Scorpion turret mounted on top. (Apparently the height gives a great all<BR>
round view as well as making a good target)<BR>
<BR>
What we do lack is self propelled artillery.(Donations anyone?)<BR>
<BR>
The navy "fighting force" is basically the TL8 Rockband class, sorry Collins<BR>
class submarines (which may eventually be fully operational- The TL9<BR>
software proving a bit of a problem with them)armed with Harpoon missiles<BR>
plus the standard torpedoes, with surface combatants consisting of various<BR>
models of FFG7 frigates and the new ANZAC class patrol frigates which as far<BR>
as I can tell are based on an uprated 70s MEKO3000 or 3500 frigate design.<BR>
<BR>
The F111s are long in the tooth, but the RAAF has always been innovative<BR>
with them. The electronics are continually updated, it is the airframes that<BR>
are getting on. Both the F111 and F18 are supposed to be replaced in the<BR>
near future (we will se). Incidentally I read somewhere that it was the RAAF<BR>
that first air dropped the Harpoon anti-ship missile (don't know if this was<BR>
true though)<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:20:14 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Annic Nova<BR>
<BR>
Just thought I'd mention that I have managed to put together a marginal TL12<BR>
version of the Annic Nova (Using FFS1) (I do mean marginal) If people are<BR>
interested I will post the details.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:23:23 +0100<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Rather than discussing the problem in the UK this thread seems to have<BR>
become a stamping ground for the deep routed paranoia from our US friends<BR>
'that the world is going to end tomorrow'. Sorry, but that's the way it<BR>
looks to us Brits. ;-p<BR>
<BR>
I for one am not concerned about food shortages in the UK. They are not<BR>
going to happen. The government will act when the crisis reaches its worst<BR>
point and will put the military in charge of ensuring that fuel reaches the<BR>
pump. I agree with the concept of the fuel demonstrations, but we don't have<BR>
the stomach for it in this country to see it through to the end. As soon as<BR>
people start running out of fuel and food (big maybe) support will wane.<BR>
<BR>
The media in this country take great delight in creating national hysteria<BR>
when something like this happens. You only have to look at things like the<BR>
paedophile witch hunts after a child was recently murdered in this country<BR>
(fuelled by a national newspaper) and the current fuel crisis.  This country<BR>
is in peril of becoming as paranoid as america and it is all down to the<BR>
media.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:58:25 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
I've spent 14 years on and off monitoring the media (for a commercial company I<BR>
hasten to add) and I knows a media panic when I sees one and I'm looking at one<BR>
now.<BR>
<BR>
I live in Inner London and I can report that of 10:00 this morning that I saw<BR>
delivery trucks out making their deliveries, all the small corner shops and<BR>
minimarkets were full as was my local safeways. All the buses were running and<BR>
so were the Taxis. My son's school was open etc.<BR>
<BR>
The media are doing this, not because they have a sinister motive, but because<BR>
they love to feel that they are influencing events. That's why they hate<BR>
politicians so much, because politicians have direct power and they do not.<BR>
<BR>
I think the ObTrav is the psionic suppression. I suspect that all the Imperium<BR>
had to do was light the blue touch paper and let the media scramble all over<BR>
itself to conduct the witch hunt.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Stuart Ferris <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 9:23 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Rather than discussing the problem in the UK this thread seems to have<BR>
> become a stamping ground for the deep routed paranoia from our US friends<BR>
> 'that the world is going to end tomorrow'. Sorry, but that's the way it<BR>
> looks to us Brits. ;-p<BR>
><BR>
> I for one am not concerned about food shortages in the UK. They are not<BR>
> going to happen. The government will act when the crisis reaches its worst<BR>
> point and will put the military in charge of ensuring that fuel reaches the<BR>
> pump. I agree with the concept of the fuel demonstrations, but we don't have<BR>
> the stomach for it in this country to see it through to the end. As soon as<BR>
> people start running out of fuel and food (big maybe) support will wane.<BR>
><BR>
> The media in this country take great delight in creating national hysteria<BR>
> when something like this happens. You only have to look at things like the<BR>
> paedophile witch hunts after a child was recently murdered in this country<BR>
> (fuelled by a national newspaper) and the current fuel crisis.  This country<BR>
> is in peril of becoming as paranoid as america and it is all down to the<BR>
> media.<BR>
><BR>
> Stuart Ferris<BR>
> stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
> http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:06:38 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
Anaktuvak Pass, the primary pass over the Brooks Range in<BR>
northern Alaska, translates as 'Caribou Shit' Pass. Before<BR>
crossing over the pass the caribou would all defecate so that<BR>
they did not have to waste calories carrying the extra weight<BR>
over the pass. Thus when native hunters saw (smelled?) the caribou <BR>
waste they knew caribou (i.e. meat) were around.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 02:57:25 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Strephon's Birthday<BR>
<BR>
Strephon's Birthday is 202, according to page 37 of Supplement 11,<BR>
Library Data (N-Z).<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
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Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:39:31 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Besides, this is the country where fans riot when their local sports<BR>
>> team wins the big game.  What will they do when the stores say "sorry,<BR>
>> no food today?".<BR>
><BR>
> There may be some truth in the first part, but fan riots are global, <BR>
> and the ones in the US are *way* less serious than some of the <BR>
> soccer riots in Central & South America.  Folks get killed down <BR>
> there regularly.  <BR>
><BR>
> Back to Traveller, that could make a good diversion for PC to deal <BR>
> with.  <BR>
><BR>
> "I'm sorry, the port and in fact most of the city is closed today, the <BR>
> Rhylanor Tree-Rats just won the Spinward Marches grav ball <BR>
> championship and there is currently a large celebration <aka <BR>
> massive riot> going on throughout the capital city.  We fully expect <BR>
> to reopen the port within 3 days.  Until that time, travelers are <BR>
> advised to stay in their hotel rooms..."<BR>
<BR>
Hell, While it was merely the trigger, a couple of countries in South<BR>
America went to *war* because of the outcome of a big soccer game.<BR>
<BR>
I can see that happening with nearby worlds in Traveller...<BR>
<BR>
  <BR>
><BR>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:41:50 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Bill wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
>> <BR>
>> Actually Cats serve a very useful purpose. At least around my<BR>
>> apartment complex. The pet owners leave dry cat food in dishes<BR>
>> outside their back doors. This has the effect of attracting less<BR>
>> domesticated animals, raccoons, beaver, nutria and possum, all of<BR>
>> which will sustain a body, as well as provide some pelts for trading.<BR>
>> Since I live on an upper floor I obviously have a high ground<BR>
>> advantage over the other residents in my complex.<BR>
><BR>
> "Nutria"?  Do you live in Louisiana, sir?  If so, in which city/parish? <BR>
> (I live in Baton Rouge, LA.)  Should we try to get together for some<BR>
> Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
We've got nutria here in Oregon too. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:44:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: IOU<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I thought you guys all knew. IOU has its own pocket universe, accesable from <BR>
> just about anywhere, given the right technology.<BR>
><BR>
> I have that straight from the dean of admissions, who shows up for the SJ <BR>
> Games' stockholders' meetings . . .<BR>
<BR>
Loren, I'd be careful about spreading that sort of rumor. It might<BR>
lower the Arch-dean's stock values...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:47:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> "Goodna" (Outer suburb of Brisbane) means "Dung" in local Aboriginal<BR>
> dialects.<BR>
<BR>
There are a *lot* of placenames in the US that got "cleaned up" when<BR>
"civilization" spread. For example, "Whorehouse Flats" got renamed to<BR>
something different (I can't recall what, other than it being<BR>
completely innocuous). And a local landmark near here was originally<BR>
name "Cock Rock", because of it's marked resemblance to the male<BR>
anatomy. It was changed to "Rooster Rock". <BR>
<BR>
Of course, the old name is even more fitting these days, as since the<BR>
late 60s it's got the only nude beach for at leat a hundred miles!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:52:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Just jumped back onto the list briefly to see how things are going. I'm back<BR>
> from a month's leave, during which (15/08/2000) we've had a new bouncing baby<BR>
> boy named Robert Edward. Mother and child both doing well. He is child #3, so<BR>
> the rest of us are still getting used to the idea, but apart from a case of<BR>
> reflux it looks like he's settling in nicely.<BR>
><BR>
> Oh yeah, birth weight 3345g = 3.345 kg = 7 lb 6 oz, in case you were <BR>
> interested<BR>
> - or is this the topic of another discussion thread?? ;-) ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Congrats. BTW, I'm surprised how close the metric comes to the<BR>
"English". By any chance did you start with the "english" and convert<BR>
to metric?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:46:06 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
It's all wel and good saying we should become vegetarians, though what about<BR>
us blood thirsty lot?<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:14:11 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Language (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
Graeme Batho wrote :<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
> >> How do _you_ think you should say "Wanganui" or "Whakatane" ?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Ok, I'll give it a go [and look like an idiot <g>]<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"One-ga-noo-ee"<BR>
> >"Wa-ka-ta-knee"<BR>
<BR>
That's how you'd expect to say them, yes.<BR>
<BR>
However, both are to be said with a "F", so<BR>
<BR>
Wanganui is said  "Fong-ga-noo-ee" and<BR>
Whakatane is said "Fukka-tarnay" or "Fokka-tarnay" if you're trying not to<BR>
sound too rude to English speakers<BR>
<BR>
Of course, dependng on which tribe you're from you may have different ideas<BR>
on how they are pronounced.<BR>
<BR>
One of the best ones tound here is Paraparaumu, which is supposed to be said<BR>
pretty much exactly how it is spelt (para-para-oo-moo. But for some reason<BR>
generations of local people have been pronouncing it "para-param"<BR>
<BR>
Not to be mistaken for Pa-pa-ooo-mow-mow, which is the sound of Somnambutol<BR>
rounds from riot guns.<BR>
<BR>
> To date, no-one has let Matt know how his pronounciation went.<BR>
<BR>
I must be missing posts, I didn't see Matt's one, so have replied to yours.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:24:11 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: OPFOR<BR>
<BR>
I remember my dad telling me that he was actually issued ID documents in <BR>
Esperanto when participating as part of the OPFOR in exercises back in the <BR>
50's.<BR>
<BR>
>There used to be an Army manual about "Esperanto: The Agressor<BR>
>Language". Not what you'd think from the title. It wasn't (as many<BR>
>people had assumed) about Esperanto trying to "corrupt" people.<BR>
><BR>
>It was about using Esperanto as a language for the aggressor force in<BR>
>excercises. I forget the name of the country (Oceania?), but among the<BR>
>other info for people to memorize for use if they were captured was the<BR>
>name of their leader "Emil Granfratro" ("granfratro" is Esperanto for<BR>
>"Big Brother")<BR>
<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
"The Clintonites, like pod people from a "Star Trek" adventure, have peeled<BR>
off the thin layer of centrist rhetoric that they wore for the presidential<BR>
campaign. We now learn that they are people genetically bred to inhabit the<BR>
public sector. Their oxygen source is the moisture of taxes, which are <BR>
remitted<BR>
by the aliens in the private sector." -- Wall Street Journal February 19, 1993<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:54:44 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Challenge index<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/13/00 10:03:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
>  Subject: RE: Challenge index<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Nope, but I did manage to get http://members.aol.com/kagekiha/traveller/ ,<BR>
>  and that's got all the links on it. I guess I must be my system?<BR>
<BR>
The index for Challenge is therem I just couldn't find my main page.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:36:08 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
"Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
>The Grand Tetons<BR>
<BR>
Ayup.  We had just returned from a family trip that included the Grand Tetons.<BR>
Our oldest son went down to breakfast wearing a "Grand Tetons" t-shirt.<BR>
<BR>
He could figure out why our French Aupair (who had just gotten back from a <BR>
sightseeing trip with several other local aupairs) was laughing.<BR>
<BR>
For those even more French challenged than myself....the Grand Tetons were <BR>
named by a male explorer who had been out in the field a *long* time after <BR>
seeing two large mountains...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"This has the characteristic look and feel of a complete fiasco."<BR>
                 http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:25:50 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Sounds like what KFC has allegedly done to chickens ;)<BR>
<BR>
Or 'Unlucky Fried Kitten' as that particular chain is known 'round our way<BR>
:) <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:50:34 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Rather than discussing the problem in the UK this thread seems to have<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> The media in this country take great delight in creating <BR>
> national hysteria<BR>
> when something like this happens. You only have to look at <BR>
> things like the<BR>
> paedophile witch hunts after a child was recently murdered in <BR>
> this country<BR>
> (fuelled by a national newspaper) and the current fuel <BR>
> crisis.  This country<BR>
> is in peril of becoming as paranoid as america and it is all <BR>
> down to the<BR>
> media.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Britain's in danger of becoming stupid too...remember the other week when<BR>
the rabid mob tried to lynch the paediatrician?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3045<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3046</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/14/00 8:50:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 14 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3046<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: PG-13-rated place names<BR>
RE: Paranoia (was:Cardboard Heroes and Battledress)<BR>
Escaping from Poughkeepsie<BR>
RE: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Naming patterns<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Undead Ammo of the 3rd Imperium (was Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Place Names<BR>
Re: IOU<BR>
RE: Paranoia (was:Cardboard Heroes and Battledress)<BR>
RE: Paranoia (was:Cardboard Heroes and Battledress)<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
RE: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Striker ROF's<BR>
Test<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
Re: Place Names<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 08:52:51 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: PG-13-rated place names<BR>
<BR>
Let us not forget the Grand Teton mountain range . . . <BR>
it means large . . . er . . . mammary protuberances.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:59:40 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Paranoia (was:Cardboard Heroes and Battledress)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I never got the time or opportunity to play Paranoia, but from what I<BR>
> read in the gaming mags of the time, it looked like fun.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It is...especially for the GM. I spent a week reading the rules carefully<BR>
and memorizing them, making sure my gaming group knew exactly what I was up<BR>
to. When time to play came around, I took each aside privately, and quietly<BR>
explained that Being a Mutant and being a member of a secret society were<BR>
both treason, and that I'd like their character to be both. Oh, and not to<BR>
tell the others :)<BR>
When time to play came around, I ignored the rules and dice rolls entirely,<BR>
and just applied whatever results I felt like. Worked like a charm :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:12:08 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Escaping from Poughkeepsie<BR>
<BR>
In additiont to New York (city) and LA, one can escape from Poughkeepsie.<BR>
FYI, Poughkeepsie is a small city in the Hudson Valley region of New York <BR>
State.<BR>
Home of Vasser College, among other things.<BR>
<BR>
The Autoduel East Coast book has an adventure titled "Escape from <BR>
Poughkeepsie" written by John Nowak.<BR>
<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
"The Clintonites, like pod people from a "Star Trek" adventure, have peeled<BR>
off the thin layer of centrist rhetoric that they wore for the presidential<BR>
campaign. We now learn that they are people genetically bred to inhabit the<BR>
public sector. Their oxygen source is the moisture of taxes, which are <BR>
remitted<BR>
by the aliens in the private sector." -- Wall Street Journal February 19, 1993<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:13:21 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > OB-Trav: A TL9 planet is currently experience a fuel <BR>
> crisis, brought about<BR>
> > by the high duty on LH2 refining(metallic impurities in the <BR>
> hydrosphere make<BR>
> > wilderness refueling impossible, and there is no gas giant <BR>
> in-system).<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry, won't work. as long as there's water, it doesn't *matter* what<BR>
> the impurities are. Run an electric current thru it and you'll get<BR>
> hydrogen (and oxygen). The few metals that'll come off *before*<BR>
> hydrogen does are silver, gold and copper. All of which are worth<BR>
> extracting on their own. <BR>
<BR>
Sure, building a water cracker in your garage is no problem, but could you<BR>
really provide enough Jump-fuel for a Free-Trader?<BR>
Besides, just because the refinary can make money selling recovered precious<BR>
metals on the side, doesn't mean that an unscrupulous govt. isn't going to<BR>
set taxes through the roof. British Petrol costs are 80% taxes (we pay about<BR>
64p duty on petrol, compared to the US 8p) even though we're a fair-sized<BR>
producer of crude ourselves (the North Sea oil fields). Also, I'd suggest<BR>
that the heavier metallic compounds in the planets water interfere with the<BR>
function of ship-board fuel processors, which are designed to convert normal<BR>
(ie roughly terrestrial) sea-water or gas-giant atmosphere to L-Hyd.<BR>
 <BR>
> So, the *only* reason hydrogen can be more than a bit more expensive<BR>
> than usual is if the hydro percentage on planet is *zero*. That is,<BR>
> there's only enough water on world for "life support" uses.<BR>
<BR>
The only reason other than greed on the part of the suppliers/regulators.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> If there's even a 1% hydro, there's more than enough water to make<BR>
> fuel, and as I note above, contaminants are merely inconvenient. <BR>
> <BR>
> > The local<BR>
> > government, a charismatic dictatorship ;) , has requested <BR>
> that processed<BR>
> > hydrogen be brought in from a nearby system (no, it doesn't <BR>
> make economic<BR>
> > sense).<BR>
> <BR>
> Neither does having local LH2 be so hideously expensive *unless* the<BR>
> planet is a waterless rockball.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
As noted above, the high prices don't have to make sense...if they did<BR>
noone(with half an ounce of sense) object to them. <BR>
BTW, these arguements apply to L-Hyd, not British petrol :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:14:33 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 3:25 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I love the redundantly-named "The La Brea Tar Pits" - since 'La<BR>
> Brea' is 'the tar' in Spanish, the literal translation is "The The Tar<BR>
Tar<BR>
> Pits"<BR>
<BR>
There's a hill somewhere in the UK (the Pennines?) called Torpenhow Hill.<BR>
Or, translating tor, pen and how from their respective dialects into<BR>
English, Hill hill hill Hill.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
(And all I need to know, I learned from Unseen University Challenge - the<BR>
Discworld quizbook.)<BR>
<BR>
********<BR>
I like Jacobs ladder, which is at the very beggining of the Pennine Way. I<BR>
remember working my way up Jacobs ladder, with an 140lb berghen, in the<BR>
slete and snow, and gale force winds; only to find I needed crampons, in<BR>
order to make it easy walking. After snow causing visibility to allmost<BR>
nill, I had to pull out, through lack of good kit, only having reached<BR>
Devils valley, not too far into my journey. Would have been great to<BR>
continue such a journey, though I would have gotten frost bite in my<BR>
fingers, having only frost nip at the time of pulling out. Where would<BR>
Torpenhow hill be along the route? I shall have too look out for it, when I<BR>
re-embark on this journey.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:34:00 -0400<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
> Ethan Henry wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > There might be imported meat - meat is a good "crop" when there's lots<BR>
> > of free feed (grass, anything too tough for human digestion) and a lack<BR>
> > of manpower. Picture the "old west" - few people, lots of scrub, thus<BR>
> > cows are a good food source, from an effort-to-calorie perspective.<BR>
> <BR>
> Barely.<BR>
> <BR>
> In a real sense, cattle ranching has _never_ been a profitable<BR>
> occupation in the West (old or new) without _substantial_ government<BR>
> subsidy.<BR>
<BR>
<rant snipped><BR>
<BR>
Ok, ok. I was thinking more along the lines of Tarsus, where they run<BR>
things more like a gigantic buffalo herd which they follow around in<BR>
air/rafts and harvest at a certain time every year. This kind of setup<BR>
lets a small number of farmers produce a relatively huge amount of food<BR>
for relatively little effort (the animals in Tarsus are something like<BR>
elephant-sized buffalo iirc).<BR>
<BR>
> They got the idea that the west was such a wonderful place to run cattle<BR>
> after they saw the vast herds of buffalo running there. And killed them<BR>
> all.<BR>
<BR>
Right. Just like Newfoundlanders used to be able to catch more cod than <BR>
they knew what to do with. Dealing with harvesting wild animal populations<BR>
can be an effective metod of meat production, provided you manage it.<BR>
<BR>
I'm assuming that the far future farmers in question have learned their<BR>
lessons. Big assumption maybe.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                         egh@klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:33:32 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Undead Ammo of the 3rd Imperium (was Re: Just how non-canon is THIS ?)<BR>
<BR>
>> *A Zombie Gerbil gun was made up shortly after Vehicles 2 came<BR>
>> out.  It is a laser that takes stream of gerbils, drains their<BR>
>> life force for energy to power the laser, cast the Zombie spell on<BR>
them,<BR>
>> and then ejects them toward the enemy.<BR>
<BR>
>I'd like to note that a Ghoul Gerbil Gun* would be better, as it would<BR>
>paralyse targets in addition to causing impact damage.<BR>
<BR>
>Nick<BR>
>*A high tech variant of my LRP group's Ghoul Cat On A Stick terror<BR>
weapon.<BR>
>Or comedy weapon. It's largely an individual decision.<BR>
<BR>
How about the Hypervelocity Undead Fin Stablized Discarding-Sabot Penguin<BR>
from Gridlore?<BR>
Penguins are well known for their armour peircing ability, make them<BR>
undead for necrolicious fun for everyone!<BR>
<BR>
Do not taunt Happy Fun Penguin...<BR>
<BR>
What's next? Vampiric African Swallows from X-TEK? Denebian Tree Oxen<BR>
Liches from SuSAG?<BR>
Okay this has gotten far too silly! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
*****************<BR>
I wonder if revealing ths secret, leaves me open to abuse!!!?<BR>
I was classed as a penguin as I never did my jumps course, after I<BR>
successfull completed 'P' Company in the British Army..... Because I was not<BR>
Airbourne I was classed---- Penguin....<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:37:28 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Here in the US, there an average of 3 days supply of food in most major<BR>
> cities.  Cut off distribution, and it will get ugly.  This is undoubtably<BR>
> true of many high-tech worlds as well, unless they have experienced some<BR>
> sort of disaster previously that has forced the government to make<BR>
> preparations.  Of course, if the government IS the problem...<BR>
<BR>
Including normal in-home reserves, it's probably more like 7-10 days.  Some<BR>
areas which are prone to natural disasters try to encourage more storage<BR>
(for example, California tries to encourage earthquake preparations) but<BR>
I don't think any of them have been hugely successful.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
*****************<BR>
Well if you include the fact that the American society has the most fat<BR>
people, it would not suffer so much, as maybe reap the benefits from such<BR>
discontent. No offence meant, though the pleaseure in which we indulge does<BR>
have it's life taking effect......Me being one, inclusive...<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:40:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:<BR>
<BR>
>There are a *lot* of placenames in the US that got "cleaned up" when<BR>
>"civilization" spread. For example, "Whorehouse Flats" got renamed to<BR>
>something different (I can't recall what, other than it being<BR>
>completely innocuous). And a local landmark near here was originally<BR>
>name "Cock Rock", because of it's marked resemblance to the male<BR>
>anatomy. It was changed to "Rooster Rock". <BR>
<BR>
Actually, here in Oregon, "Whorehouse Flats" is still "Whorehouse<BR>
Flats".  A group of Politically Correct A**holes (PCAs) made an<BR>
attempt to have the name changed to "Naughty Girl Flats", but an<BR>
even larger group of state historical preservationists raised such<BR>
an outroar that the name change never took place.<BR>
<BR>
Chalk up a point for our side. :^) <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
        - Mark C.<BR>
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy<BR>
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75<BR>
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR<BR>
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)<BR>
          Front Sight First Family member #1<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
 mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com<BR>
 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com<BR>
 Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:53:54 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: IOU<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> Loren wrote:<BR>
> >I thought you guys all knew. IOU has its own pocket universe, accesable from<BR>
> >just about anywhere, given the right technology.<BR>
> <BR>
> Pinched off by Yaskoydray? Grandfather's contribution to the safety of the<BR>
> universe?<BR>
<BR>
Not for our safety...how do you think he got the Heinlein chair in the<BR>
Multiverse department?<BR>
<BR>
Here's the _real_ reason no one's heard from him in 300,000<BR>
years...departmental politics, and tenure committees.<BR>
 <BR>
> >I have that straight from the dean of admissions, who shows up for the SJ<BR>
> >Games' stockholders' meetings . . .<BR>
> <BR>
> Too bad the IOU worked out how to break out... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Just how _much_ stock do they control? <shudder><BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 06:58:34 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: RE: Paranoia (was:Cardboard Heroes and Battledress)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > I never got the time or opportunity to play Paranoia, but from what I<BR>
> > read in the gaming mags of the time, it looked like fun.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> It is...especially for the GM. I spent a week reading the rules carefully<BR>
> and memorizing them, making sure my gaming group knew exactly what I was up<BR>
> to. When time to play came around, I took each aside privately, and quietly<BR>
> explained that Being a Mutant and being a member of a secret society were<BR>
> both treason, and that I'd like their character to be both. Oh, and not to<BR>
> tell the others :)<BR>
> When time to play came around, I ignored the rules and dice rolls entirely,<BR>
> and just applied whatever results I felt like. Worked like a charm :)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
So, in other words, you followed the rules precisely! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:59:21 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Paranoia (was:Cardboard Heroes and Battledress)<BR>
<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > I never got the time or opportunity to play Paranoia, but <BR>
> from what I<BR>
> > > read in the gaming mags of the time, it looked like fun.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > It is...especially for the GM. I spent a week reading the <BR>
> rules carefully<BR>
> > and memorizing them, making sure my gaming group knew <BR>
> exactly what I was up<BR>
> > to. When time to play came around, I took each aside <BR>
> privately, and quietly<BR>
> > explained that Being a Mutant and being a member of a <BR>
> secret society were<BR>
> > both treason, and that I'd like their character to be both. <BR>
> Oh, and not to<BR>
> > tell the others :)<BR>
> > When time to play came around, I ignored the rules and dice <BR>
> rolls entirely,<BR>
> > and just applied whatever results I felt like. Worked like <BR>
> a charm :)<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> So, in other words, you followed the rules precisely! ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Yeah :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:08:03 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
I just had a thought!<BR>
In reflection to what has been said, and something I have seen in the not<BR>
too far distant past. This process at which meat is grown in Vats, and the<BR>
fact that bodies in space, deterraiate in non-G environments. Would it be<BR>
feasible to suggest, that bodies coould be re-vitalised, in the same sort of<BR>
way an ear is grown on the back of a mouse, as meat is grown in Vats?<BR>
<BR>
It's just an idea.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:14:09 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 9/13/00 11:41:27 PM !!!First Boot!!!, wombat@premier.net <BR>
> writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << True; OTOH, cats are an effective predator (probably more so than all<BR>
>  but the smallest dogs) against disease vector vermin (such as various<BR>
>  rodents).  If Hard Times strike, I want a few cats around my village.... >><BR>
> <BR>
> my three spoiled heads wouldn't know what to do with a mouse, though if I cut <BR>
> off the supply of Tender Vittles...:-)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Mine would: <BR>
<BR>
"Play with it until it breaks...then leave it in the middle of the floor<BR>
to show your disgust with the fragility of toys these days."<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 07:18:03 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 9/13/00 6:55:40 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
> ajackson@molly.iii.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << Including normal in-home reserves, it's probably more like 7-10 days.  Some<BR>
>  areas which are prone to natural disasters try to encourage more storage<BR>
>  (for example, California tries to encourage earthquake preparations) but<BR>
>  I don't think any of them have been hugely successful.<BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> Of course, living in the desert and being quite fat, I'm much more terrified <BR>
> of the water going dry...:-(<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
One reason my wife and I are seriously considering putting in a rainwater<BR>
catch cistern system. In the absence of civil unrest, it also gives you<BR>
free water to water the garden and yard with.<BR>
<BR>
Then again, it requires a fair amount of roof area to pull off (and a good<BR>
rain year previously...we _must_ insist that the fall of civilization<BR>
occur _after_ an El Nino winter!)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:18:37 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> > my three spoiled heads wouldn't know what to do with a <BR>
> mouse, though if I cut <BR>
> > off the supply of Tender Vittles...:-)<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> Mine would: <BR>
> <BR>
> "Play with it until it breaks...then leave it in the middle <BR>
> of the floor<BR>
> to show your disgust with the fragility of toys these days."<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Better than 'Play with it until you get bored, let it go in the middle of<BR>
the kitchen, watch it find its way into the washer-dryer where is causes a<BR>
short-circuit' :( Bad kitty.<BR>
<BR>
Ob-Trav...Local vermin finds its way into the PCs ship while planetside and<BR>
cause a malfunction...a couple of minutes out of orbit. It's a wilderness<BR>
planet...and you're still in the gravity well...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 08:00:52 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker ROF's<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Striker ROF's<BR>
...<BR>
> >auto-fire bonus - with a continuous energy input requirement (150 sec =<BR>
> >5 turns) when a large CPR/MD cannon would get the same hit numbers and<BR>
> >multiple hit rules coverage from a handful of rounds per fire phase or<BR>
> >even turn?<BR>
> <BR>
>The Striker autofire table requires a weapon to fire >19 rounds per phase<BR>
>to get a +2 bonus (I guess a house rule could have "semi-auto" fire at >9<BR>
>rounds per phase getting a +1 bonus).  <BR>
><BR>
> >  And that assumes that the above weapons "shot" is a one-second blast,<BR>
> >which is a bit strange, to say the least (OK, say it's one second worth<BR>
> >of input stored for near-instant discharge...).<BR>
><BR>
>Assuming a 1 second cycle (for weapon cooling?), a weapon could fire 15 shots<BR>
>per phase, not enough for an autofire bonus from Striker.  I guess to <BR>
>design rapid fire energy weapons, they want you to follow the RP rules or<BR>
>use "multi-lens" pulse lasers.<BR>
<BR>
  Sure, but why does a recoilless rifle - or a large CPR AT gun - using <BR>
one round per phase (4 rpm!) get no penalties beyond the ref obviously<BR>
prohibiting multiple hits? Why could an AT laser likewise not fire one<BR>
seconds worth of energy accumulation per phase (15s.) and be covered by<BR>
the same rulings as those lower-TL weapons?<BR>
<BR>
  For that matter, one round/phase cries out for negative hit modifiers<BR>
or restrictions on capabilities (beyond the obvious "no multiple hits").<BR>
And what level of ROF (_not_ for an autofire bonus) should be the default?<BR>
<BR>
  One suggestion might be a round every four seconds to allow unpenalized<BR>
fire and use of the basic multiple hits rules. This happens to make a 75<BR>
round (MBT) basic load good for 20 phases/10 turns.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, Sep 15 2000 2:00:13 GMT+1100<BR>
From: robocon@ozemail.com.au<BR>
Subject: Test<BR>
<BR>
Sorry about the waste of bandwidth.<BR>
Just testing to see if a firewall is up...<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 08:21:56 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>In a productive year they have so much meat, even after selling most of<BR>
>the surplus stock at auction, giving away food to thier children (one of<BR>
>the things I miss now that I live 100 miles away), etc. that they have two<BR>
>chest freezers to store it all in.<BR>
><BR>
>One of father's worries is that if the power goes out for any length of<BR>
>time the neighbours won't be albe to take the surplus because they've all<BR>
>got similar stocks and he'll have to dig a large hole and bury it all.<BR>
<BR>
	One word:  Jerky.  <BR>
	And at the price they sell the chemical-laden, overprocessed stuff<BR>
they jokingly call 'jerky' in the stores, he could probably make a fair<BR>
penny selling the extra, too.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- ----<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:42:45 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/14/00 7:46:36 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Skaran@bigpond.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< What we do lack is self propelled artillery. >><BR>
<BR>
what towed tubes and prime movers do you use?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 08:43:47 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
><BR>
>For your edification, please add the following two entries<BR>
>to this display of exotic nominclature:<BR>
<BR>
	I'm at work and away from an atlas (Net?  Fie on thee!  The net is<BR>
no substitute for the feel of a heavy book in your hands!), but isn't there<BR>
a town in Britain somewhere called "Bushy"?  I gather the popular saying is<BR>
"You've got to go through Bushy to get where you're going..."<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think, they don't tell me _what_ to think<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:44:06 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
The same thing happened in London when the Victorian era came around.<BR>
Streetnames such as Gropecunt Lane were changed for example.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@peak.org><BR>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 2:40 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> writes:<BR>
><BR>
> >There are a *lot* of placenames in the US that got "cleaned up" when<BR>
> >"civilization" spread. For example, "Whorehouse Flats" got renamed to<BR>
> >something different (I can't recall what, other than it being<BR>
> >completely innocuous). And a local landmark near here was originally<BR>
> >name "Cock Rock", because of it's marked resemblance to the male<BR>
> >anatomy. It was changed to "Rooster Rock".<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, here in Oregon, "Whorehouse Flats" is still "Whorehouse<BR>
> Flats".  A group of Politically Correct A**holes (PCAs) made an<BR>
> attempt to have the name changed to "Naughty Girl Flats", but an<BR>
> even larger group of state historical preservationists raised such<BR>
> an outroar that the name change never took place.<BR>
><BR>
> Chalk up a point for our side. :^)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:44:55 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/14/00 8:26:33 AM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< This country<BR>
 is in peril of becoming as paranoid as america and it is all down to the<BR>
 media. >><BR>
<BR>
what do you think makes us so paranoid? I know; it's an illuminati conspiracy <BR>
using the world's media as a front. Hmm; this would make a great goofy <BR>
Traveller scenario...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:47:34 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
Yes. Bushy, famous place. Nudge nudge, wink wink say no more.<BR>
<BR>
(Yes I know its Purley)<BR>
<BR>
There is a Lesser and Greater Ugly as well.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 4:43 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
> >Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
> ><BR>
> >For your edification, please add the following two entries<BR>
> >to this display of exotic nominclature:<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm at work and away from an atlas (Net?  Fie on thee!  The net is<BR>
> no substitute for the feel of a heavy book in your hands!), but isn't there<BR>
> a town in Britain somewhere called "Bushy"?  I gather the popular saying is<BR>
> "You've got to go through Bushy to get where you're going..."<BR>
> <BR>
> Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> Disclaimer - They just tell me to think, they don't tell me _what_ to think<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3046<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3047</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 14 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3047<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Place Names<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Fuel Costs (was:  several threads)<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
RE: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Beanstalk! Beanstalk!<BR>
re:  : Naming patterns<BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
re: Diplomacy<BR>
RE: Diplomacy<BR>
re: Yoyodyne<BR>
re: Yoyodyne<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Yoyodyne<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
RE: Diplomacy<BR>
Re: PG-13-rated place names<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:53:25 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/14/00 2:19:50 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< .Local vermin finds its way into the PCs ship while planetside and<BR>
 cause a malfunction...a couple of minutes out of orbit. It's a wilderness<BR>
 planet...and you're still in the gravity well...<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
and the ship has the deadstick landing abilities of a rock...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:04:50 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
> The navy "fighting force" is basically the TL8 Rockband class, sorry<BR>
Collins<BR>
> class submarines (which may eventually be fully operational- The TL9<BR>
> software proving a bit of a problem with them)armed with Harpoon missiles<BR>
> plus the standard torpedoes, with surface combatants consisting of various<BR>
<BR>
What model of torpedo?  MK48s?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:08:50 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
<BR>
>One reason my wife and I are seriously considering putting in a rainwater<BR>
>catch cistern system. In the absence of civil unrest, it also gives you<BR>
>free water to water the garden and yard with.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Great idea.<BR>
<BR>
>Then again, it requires a fair amount of roof area to pull off (and a good<BR>
>rain year previously...we _must_ insist that the fall of civilization<BR>
>occur _after_ an El Nino winter!)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    One little problem Bruce, you live in Arizona, it hardly ever rains<BR>
here, unless it is Monsoon Season.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:13:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> Rather than discussing the problem in the UK this thread seems to have<BR>
> become a stamping ground for the deep routed paranoia from our US friends<BR>
> 'that the world is going to end tomorrow'. Sorry, but that's the way it<BR>
> looks to us Brits. ;-p<BR>
><BR>
Well, speaking as an American, I'd have to agree.  The main difference:  We<BR>
distrust our government.  Recall that the US became an independant country<BR>
because of the failure of the British government to fulfill its<BR>
resposibility to acknolwedge the rights of Englishmen in the colonies (no<BR>
taxation without representations and all that stuff).  Distrust of<BR>
government is part of the American psyche.<BR>
<BR>
But we also have the tradition of 'rugged individualism'.  If things all go<BR>
to hell, expect people to say "no one is going to do this for me, so I'll do<BR>
it myself".  Particularly if there is money to be made.<BR>
<BR>
Just my opinion.  Who else would want it?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:45:01 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:47:01 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> <BR>
> There are a *lot* of placenames in the US that got "cleaned up" when<BR>
> "civilization" spread. For example, "Whorehouse Flats" got renamed to<BR>
> something different (I can't recall what, other than it being completely<BR>
> innocuous). And a local landmark near here was originally name "Cock<BR>
> Rock", because of it's marked resemblance to the male anatomy. It was<BR>
> changed to "Rooster Rock".<BR>
<BR>
See also the Grand Tetons, currently masked by the common lack of French<BR>
skills in the US. :)  Another great example of historical coverup...er,<BR>
image improvement...is Placerville, in the gold-rush country of the<BR>
western Sierra.  The original name was "Hangtown", since several lynchings<BR>
occurred there.  Later, when things calmed down a bit, the locals decided<BR>
to shed that image and go with "Placerville" instead, placer mining being<BR>
the most prevalant practice in the area.  The funny thing is that in more<BR>
recent years, the town has highlighted its origins to draw curious<BR>
visitors, with the name "Hangtown" again prominent in business names and<BR>
tourist knick-knacks.<BR>
<BR>
On another note, my friends and I share the habit of inventing our own<BR>
names for desert-backcountry features in areas we visit.  Our best effort<BR>
so far is a boulder-strewn dry arroyo, **way** up the side of a mountain,<BR>
miles from any road, which we christened "Helen Gonne Canyon". :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:48:35 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I think the ObTrav is the psionic suppression. I suspect that all the<BR>
Imperium<BR>
> had to do was light the blue touch paper and let the media scramble all<BR>
over<BR>
> itself to conduct the witch hunt.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Well it certainly help paranoi when we're talking about people who can 'peer<BR>
into you mind' and read your 'innermost secrets'.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:48:29 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Fuel Costs (was:  several threads)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
><BR>
<assorted snips><BR>
>> Sorry, won't work. as long as there's water, it doesn't *matter* what<BR>
>> the impurities are. Run an electric current thru it and you'll get<BR>
>> hydrogen (and oxygen). The few metals that'll come off *before*<BR>
>> hydrogen does are silver, gold and copper. All of which are worth<BR>
>> extracting on their own. <BR>
><BR>
>Sure, building a water cracker in your garage is no problem, but could you<BR>
>really provide enough Jump-fuel for a Free-Trader?<BR>
>Besides, just because the refinary can make money selling recovered<BR>
>precious metals on the side, doesn't mean that an unscrupulous govt. isn't<BR>
>going to set taxes through the roof. British Petrol costs are 80% taxes <BR>
>(we pay about 64p duty on petrol, compared to the US 8p) <BR>
<BR>
	Thinking back to the 1920's here in the US, the government tried to<BR>
ban the production and sale of ethanol.  Unfortunately, it is painfully<BR>
simple to make in your kitchen, and pretty large stills can be set up in<BR>
garages, etc; which everyone promptly did once the price went up.  In India,<BR>
the British set up a government monopoly for the production of salt, so one<BR>
could violate the law by merely boiling seawater (if they caught you). <BR>
	ObTrav-ing it - what if the planet in question has set a monopoly<BR>
and is charging a hefty tariff?  They would have to prevent wilderness<BR>
refueling if there was a large amounts of water available (using air-defense<BR>
radar?), maybe even charging for the water if you dip below the radar net<BR>
and show up with full tanks.  Backyard crackers would be tougher with<BR>
hydrogen because you need:   1) water (water use can be monitored, but the<BR>
pipes could also be tapped, as long as you snagged a bit then left fast<BR>
before the watercops showed up), and   2)  power...lots of it.  This is<BR>
tremendously easy to monitor  (just _how_ many kilowatts is that<BR>
single-family home pulling?  hmmmm.....)  You can't tap off your air-raft<BR>
because that has a fusion powerplant that requires...you got it...hydrogen<BR>
fuel.<BR>
<BR>
	This could produce some interesting scenarios - people trying to<BR>
steal the ships fuel while it is on the ground (like the people who siphoned<BR>
gas back during the oil crisis of the '70s...remember that?  that's why we<BR>
have locking gas caps now)  Maybe the local government decides they want to<BR>
keep the players on the ground and refuse to sell them fuel...or buries them<BR>
in red tape.  They then have to deal with the bootleggers who keep moving<BR>
around, stealing some water here, tapping off an industrial powerline there,<BR>
hijacking a hydrogen shipment somewhere else...<BR>
	The most abundent element in the universe (other than stupidity),<BR>
but life sure sucks when you can't get it.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- -<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 09:51:08 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> It's all wel and good saying we should become vegetarians, though what<BR>
about<BR>
> us blood thirsty lot?<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
You skulk your way to the Carnivore Club for a little socially unacceptable<BR>
meat eating.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:51:29 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I think the ObTrav is the psionic suppression. I suspect <BR>
> that all the<BR>
> Imperium<BR>
> > had to do was light the blue touch paper and let the media <BR>
> scramble all<BR>
> over<BR>
> > itself to conduct the witch hunt.<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> Well it certainly help paranoi when we're talking about <BR>
> people who can 'peer<BR>
> into you mind' and read your 'innermost secrets'.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Ooh! I got one! Evil mind-rapists! :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:17:58 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: Beanstalk! Beanstalk!<BR>
<BR>
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/spaceelevators000914.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re:  : Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
<BR>
>	I love the redundantly-named "The La Brea Tar Pits" - since 'La Brea' is<BR>
'the tar' in<BR>
>Spanish, the literal translation is "The The Tar Tar Pits"<BR>
<BR>
Like El Zorro the Fox!<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:38 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
>From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>>I think "dosh" = "money" (possibly from "A Clockwork Orange"?).<BR>
><BR>
>	Don't think it was from "A Clockwork Orange."  The old drunk used "Cotter"<BR>
on two occasions  >while panhandling ("...can you spare me some cotter, me<BR>
brother?"), and Alex refers to "Pretty<BR>
>Polly" once or twice ("...if you want pretty polly, you taaake it")<BR>
>	Who, me?  A Kubric fan?  Naaaa.....  ;o)<BR>
<BR>
I don't remember "dosh" from the book, either.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
><BR>
>In support of this theory, it should be noted that a huge General Dynamics<BR>
plant used to be<BR>
>located in Pomona, next door to Claremont.  I worked there for a few years.<BR>
The parody name<BR>
>Pynchon used for his perpetually shafted defense contractor was "Yoyodyne".<BR>
(Now, for bonus<BR>
>points, name a film appearance of the name "Yoyodyne".)<BR>
<BR>
Oh, that's where it comes from.  Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems is the front<BR>
company of the Red Lectroids who found themselves in New Jersey in 1938,<BR>
leading to Orson Welles' brilliant radio program The War of the Worlds.<BR>
Long after the events depicted in The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai (one of<BR>
my favorite movies from the 1980s), GsBAG acquired YPS and utilizes it as an<BR>
M- and J-drive design house in the Solomani Rim.  I've been general counsel<BR>
for a few years.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:42 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
>From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
<BR>
>	My question is:  just how extensive is the diplomatic system in YTU?  does<BR>
'embassy row' on >any given planetary capital have offices or compounds for<BR>
nearly every other planet in the<BR>
>subsector, plus half of all the neighboring subsectors?  Will ambassadors<BR>
again become the<BR>
>quick-witted and devious people they once were, charged with the authority<BR>
to negotiate and make >decisions in the absence of other explicit<BR>
instructions?  What about the local Imperial noble?  >Does he have an<BR>
office?  Does he leave a senechal in charge of things?  Do they cound as<BR>
another >embassy, depending on the amount of control they excercise on that<BR>
particular world?<BR>
<BR>
David Fisher, former US ambassador to the Seychelles and former president of<BR>
the World Affairs Council of Northern California, remarked that the duty of<BR>
a diplomat is to represent the interests of his or her country in the place<BR>
where he or she is posted.  I think that's a good place to begin a<BR>
consideration of diplomacy in Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Diplomatic contacts are pretty extensive in my Traveller universe.  Within<BR>
the Imperium, member states send diplomats to each other as long as there is<BR>
any reason to do so, such as extensive trade relations and the presence of<BR>
large numbers of sophonts tied to one place located in the other.  It<BR>
usually works out that larger and more advanced states have interests at<BR>
greater distances, so they send diplomats farther away than smaller or less<BR>
advanced states.  E.g., Mora and Rhylanor have diplomatic offices in every<BR>
Imperial subsector capital of the Spinward Marches and Deneb subsectors, and<BR>
on a large number of non-capital high-pop, high-tech worlds.  Boughene, on<BR>
the other hand, has an honorary consul (i.e., a local citizen appointed to<BR>
act as consul) on Efate and at the subsector capital, Regina.<BR>
<BR>
Member states enter into various treaties among themselves (postal unions,<BR>
trade zones, anti-insurgency agreements, to name a few).  These are normally<BR>
negotiated and administered by their diplomatic corps.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial member states are not generally authorized to accept or send<BR>
ambassadors across the Imperial border.  The Imperium is in charge of<BR>
foreign policy.  Of course, because of communication lags, the border areas<BR>
have to be able to engage in a lot of their own diplomacy.  Accordingly,<BR>
sector and subsector dukes may accept non-Imperial ambassadors, and may<BR>
enter into some binding agreements with foreign states.<BR>
<BR>
Sector and subsector dukes may send ambassadors to neighboring areas of<BR>
large non-Imperial states and to the capitals of smaller non-Imperial<BR>
states.  The Emperor appoints ambassadors to the capitals of the larger<BR>
states.  Larger here, is not coterminous with major.  The Emperor appoints<BR>
ambassadors to the Sword Worlds, the Darrians, and other states of that<BR>
size.  The Duke of Regina appoints the ambassador to the Confederation of<BR>
Arden.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial member states may accept and send lower level envoys across the<BR>
Imperial border.  These envoys do not have any power to bind the Imperium to<BR>
an agreement.<BR>
<BR>
Conventional intra-Imperial diplomatic titles and powers are as follows:<BR>
<BR>
Ambassador:  not used by member states; only refers to diplomats with a high<BR>
level of authority sent across the Imperial border<BR>
<BR>
High Consul:  equivalent to ambassador; usually a very high level of<BR>
authority to negotiate with host state<BR>
<BR>
Consul:  a lower level of authority; usually associated with issues of trade<BR>
and citizens of the consul's world on the host world<BR>
<BR>
Something Attache:  someone attached to a consulate to advise the Consul or<BR>
High Consul on Something -- trade, defense, or culture, are typical areas<BR>
(so Trade Attache to the Consul of Regina on Mora)<BR>
<BR>
Honorary Consul:  a citizen of the host world hired to represent the<BR>
interests of the other world; not much authority<BR>
<BR>
Special Consul:  a level outside the usual hierarchy, this is someone sent<BR>
to handle a special problem or negotiation; usually holds a very high level<BR>
of authority in that particular matter<BR>
<BR>
Proconsul:  an ancient Roman title given to the military governor of a<BR>
conquered territory, sometimes used in the same way within the Imperium (for<BR>
those gov't code 6 worlds)<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:45 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bob Kovalchick <Kovalchick@wbgh.com><BR>
><BR>
> This is an interesting question. However, it begs other questions that<BR>
need to be answered<BR>
>first. Such as...What is the structure of the different levels of political<BR>
organization? Is<BR>
>there a subsector "council" or other body made up of representatives from<BR>
the various<BR>
>sytems/planets? Do some subsectors have this "council" and others don't?<BR>
How is the Imperium<BR>
>involved with this process?<BR>
<BR>
You're describing a legislative type of body, rather than a diplomatic<BR>
system, I think.  The answer, in any case, is that regions of the Imperium<BR>
vary (in my Traveller universe, anyway).  Some have multi-world deliberative<BR>
bodies and others don't.  None make laws at a multi-world level (with a few<BR>
exceptions like the Vegan Autonomous Region); that is the prerogative of the<BR>
Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
>I would think that the Imperial nobility acts as a pseudo<BR>
ambassador/representative between the >various political interests in the<BR>
region. (Talk about pork and intrigue)<BR>
<BR>
No, the Imperial nobility is charged with protecting Imperial interests.<BR>
Imperial nobles are never diplomats for member states.  That would be a<BR>
conflict of interest.<BR>
<BR>
Mediation of disputes with member states furthers the Imperium's interests<BR>
in the security of the realm.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:47 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
>From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
><BR>
>Yoyodyne has been used in Star Trek too.  They were a contractor on the<BR>
Enterprise-D project.<BR>
>The Overthruster has been used multiple times in Star Trek, including as<BR>
part of the first<BR>
>working Human Warp Drive ship.<BR>
<BR>
When I enter the freeway, two phrases go through my mind:  "engage the<BR>
overthruster" as I push on the overdrive; and "prepare for the jump to<BR>
hyperspace" as I merge from the ramp to the freeway.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:49 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
><BR>
>Congrats to everyone who correctly named "Buckaroo Banzai" as the film<BR>
which uses the name >"Yoyodyne".  Now, for bonus points, and without peeking<BR>
at the tape:  In the movie, what was<BR>
>Yoyodyne's corporate slogan?<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't Yoyodyne also in Robocop?  It made the robotic police units.  Did it<BR>
have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:50 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>><BR>
>> BTW, I have a Yoyodyne coffee mug...<BR>
>Oh, covet covet *covet*.<BR>
<BR>
I have a Yoyodyne patch that I've put on a Navy ball cap -- local TMLers<BR>
have probably seen it.<BR>
<BR>
>> Is "The Crying of Lot 49" worth reading? Or is it "literature"?<BR>
<BR>
Beginning of a junior high student's book review (from a comic strip that I<BR>
read a very long time ago, but I can't remember which one; the characters<BR>
were birds):  "Herman Melville's Moby Dick is surprisingly enjoyable reading<BR>
for one of the greatest novels ever written."<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:52 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
><BR>
>But it'll be a *long* time before I manage to wade thru my complete (16<BR>
volume) set of the<BR>
>Arabian Nights...<BR>
<BR>
Is that Burton's translation? If so, do yourself a favor and start reading<BR>
now.  Savor every story.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:54 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
>From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
><BR>
>Of _course_ the best fighters are in the South of England!  They had to be<BR>
there to intercept<BR>
>Jerry....<BR>
<BR>
Well, traditionally they were good fighters from having to be there to<BR>
intercept Francois and Guillaume.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
>One of father's worries is that if the power goes out for any length of<BR>
time the neighbours<BR>
>won't be albe to take the surplus because they've all got similar stocks<BR>
and he'll have to dig a >large hole and bury it all.<BR>
<BR>
No, they should smoke it or dry it and make jerky.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:42:19 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
To: "Traveller-Digest" <traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 10:34 AM<BR>
Subject: re: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Wasn't Yoyodyne also in Robocop?  It made the robotic police units.  Did<BR>
it<BR>
> have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
><BR>
That's from Blade Runner's Tyrrel corp.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:45:54 -0500<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
At 21:22 -0500 9/13/00, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
>Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
>So, I take it that you are going to follow the tradition introduced in the<BR>
>"Family d'Alembert" series and have Strephon abdicate in favour of Ciencia,<BR>
>maybe on her 32nd birthday in 1121?? He'll be 71...  ;-) ;-)<BR>
<BR>
y'see -- this is how rumors get started (smileys or no smileys). Why does a<BR>
question about birthdays mean that I am going to have Strephon abdicate?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:44:18 -0400<BR>
From: Bob Kovalchick <Kovalchick@wbgh.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
	>I would think that the Imperial nobility acts as a pseudo<BR>
	ambassador/representative between the >various political interests<BR>
in the<BR>
	region. (Talk about pork and intrigue)<BR>
<BR>
	No, the Imperial nobility is charged with protecting Imperial<BR>
interests.<BR>
	Imperial nobles are never diplomats for member states.  That would<BR>
be a<BR>
	conflict of interest.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not saying the Nobles are representing the members worlds per se, but I<BR>
see them as mediators between the various interests. As far as conflict of<BR>
interest, that's almost unavoidable. The Nobles are supposed to be "better<BR>
than that" in theory. A Noble is going to have interests in his or her<BR>
region. Remember, a Noble often derives income from his fiefdom. IMTU,<BR>
Nobles are also linked closely to corporations. And, as you say, the<BR>
security of the region (economic, military, etc.) is in the Imperium's<BR>
interest. Of course, this is all IMTU.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bob Kovalchick<BR>
Washington Business Group on Health<BR>
E: kovalchick@wbgh.com <mailto:kovalchick@wbgh.com> <BR>
<BR>
	-----Original Message-----<BR>
	From:	Glenn M. Goffin [SMTP:gmgoffin@earthlink.net]<BR>
	Sent:	Thursday, September 14, 2000 1:35 PM<BR>
	To:	Traveller-Digest<BR>
	Subject:	RE: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
	>From: Bob Kovalchick <Kovalchick@wbgh.com><BR>
	><BR>
	> This is an interesting question. However, it begs other questions<BR>
that<BR>
	need to be answered<BR>
	>first. Such as...What is the structure of the different levels of<BR>
political<BR>
	organization? Is<BR>
	>there a subsector "council" or other body made up of<BR>
representatives from<BR>
	the various<BR>
	>sytems/planets? Do some subsectors have this "council" and others<BR>
don't?<BR>
	How is the Imperium<BR>
	>involved with this process?<BR>
<BR>
	You're describing a legislative type of body, rather than a<BR>
diplomatic<BR>
	system, I think.  The answer, in any case, is that regions of the<BR>
Imperium<BR>
	vary (in my Traveller universe, anyway).  Some have multi-world<BR>
deliberative<BR>
	bodies and others don't.  None make laws at a multi-world level<BR>
(with a few<BR>
	exceptions like the Vegan Autonomous Region); that is the<BR>
prerogative of the<BR>
	Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
	>I would think that the Imperial nobility acts as a pseudo<BR>
	ambassador/representative between the >various political interests<BR>
in the<BR>
	region. (Talk about pork and intrigue)<BR>
<BR>
	No, the Imperial nobility is charged with protecting Imperial<BR>
interests.<BR>
	Imperial nobles are never diplomats for member states.  That would<BR>
be a<BR>
	conflict of interest.<BR>
<BR>
	Mediation of disputes with member states furthers the Imperium's<BR>
interests<BR>
	in the security of the realm.<BR>
<BR>
	--Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:49:31 GMT<BR>
From: "will richards" <willrichards@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: PG-13-rated place names<BR>
<BR>
Or how about Big Bone Lick State Park in West VA.<BR>
Honest! Its just of I64 near the VA boarder.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Will<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Let us not forget the Grand Teton mountain range . . .<BR>
>it means large . . . er . . . mammary protuberances.<BR>
><BR>
>LKW<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:51:30 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
> Lasers are energy weapons. Fusion guns and plasma guns are plasma<BR>
> weapons.<BR>
<BR>
Lasers do their damage through directed energy, and plasma guns deal their<BR>
damage through plasma. However, revolvers accelerate particles, and<BR>
crosbows drive mass. In order to avoid the kind of wooly thinking which<BR>
could devolve from this, Traveller defines fusion and plasma guns as energy<BR>
weapons. (See previous quote from High Guard).<BR>
<BR>
I'm beginning to see the appeal of being a rabid canonist. Even though<BR>
technically I'm wrong, the author of High Guard was wrong in the same way,<BR>
so my position is unassailable no matter how much logic is brought to bear<BR>
against me. #:-)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3047<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3048</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/14/00 1:20:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 14 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3048<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3047<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3047<BR>
More Human than Human<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
Re: Naming patterns<BR>
Re: Naming Patterns<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
re: Yoyodyne<BR>
RE: More Human than Human<BR>
Hex mapping utility<BR>
force fields<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Place Names<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:13:20 -0400<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3047<BR>
<BR>
> > Did it have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
> <BR>
> That's from Blade Runner's Tyrrel corp.<BR>
<BR>
I believe you meant White Zombie's Rob Zombie, re: 'Astro-Creep 2000'.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                         egh@klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:22:16 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3047<BR>
<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> > Did it have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
>><BR>
>> That's from Blade Runner's Tyrrel corp.<BR>
><BR>
>I believe you meant White Zombie's Rob Zombie, re: 'Astro-Creep 2000'.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Arg, Rob Zombie has stated in a Rolling Stone interview that he got the<BR>
"More human than human" line in "Astro-Creep 2000" from the movie Blade<BR>
Runner.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:28:00 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: More Human than Human<BR>
<BR>
>.  Did it<BR>
>have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't that the motto of Nexus Corp. in the movie Bladerunner?<BR>
Their Nexus 7 models would have given a New Race Draka a decent fight.<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
Exigis Domus Hillaria - http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:32:54<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
At 04:51 PM 9/13/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, I've read "The Divine Comedy" simply because I *wanted* too.<BR>
>(Well, to steal ideas for D&D too). So I guess I'm not a complete "tech<BR>
>geek" either.<BR>
<BR>
I'm making a push to have the 2002 WorldCon (in San Jose, get yer<BR>
memberships now!) give a special retro-Hugo to Dante for Best SF Published<BR>
Before Moveable Type.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:34:11<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
At 01:53 PM 9/13/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Other California names that shouldn't be forgotten: Azusa (everything from<BR>
A to Z in the USA), Tarzana, and Zzyyxx City (not sure if it's actually a<BR>
town, but it's an exit on the interstate between LA and Las Vegas).<BR>
<BR>
Three Rocks.<BR>
<BR>
City of Industry.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:35:05<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
At 03:17 PM 9/13/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The best blurb-style description I can offer is "James Joyce meets Robert<BR>
>Anton Wilson, with Douglas Adams lurking behind the curtains." :)<BR>
<BR>
Having just finished re-reading "Masks of the Illuminati", that gave me the<BR>
*strangest* mental image...<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:36:32<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cardboard Heroes and Battledress<BR>
<BR>
At 11:45 AM 9/13/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>are you talking about the "conehead" helmets?<BR>
<BR>
I use the word "teardrop" to describe them in GF, to avoid trouble with<BR>
Remulakian Anti-Defamation League.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:45:21<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
At 09:58 AM 9/13/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Ano Nuevo (New Years Day)<BR>
<BR>
Funny, I though Ano Nuevo was spanish for "What is that elephant seal doing<BR>
to omygod Ethel, cover the kids' eyes and run!"<BR>
<BR>
In-joke for NorCal folks.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:47:06<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Naming Patterns<BR>
<BR>
At 01:12 PM 9/13/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>My personal favorite is Parumph. I was quite surprised to discover that<BR>
>the "Parumphian People's Militia" at the National Training Center had any<BR>
>connection with reality.<BR>
<BR>
Last time I was there, they were claiming to be the People's Democratic<BR>
Republic of Barstow.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:51:13<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
At 01:34 AM 9/14/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>on 9/13/00 10:55 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>> Note the sixth photograph (i.e., not including the Ditzie sketch) from<BR>
>> the top.  This naked aggression surely justifies the regrettable acts in<BR>
>> the seventh photo.  As I was the target of the penguin attack in<BR>
>> question (as a US Army paratrooper, I felt that it was my duty to stand<BR>
>> as a bulwark defending the civilian party attendees against the Penguin<BR>
>> Menace), I am uniquely qualified to comment on the warmongering nature<BR>
>> of penguins in Traveller.  Observe that the penguin attacked (photo #6),<BR>
>> and only later was subjected to entirely justified interrogation (photo<BR>
>> #7).<BR>
><BR>
>You know, I begin to suspect that I escaped from San Francisco at just about<BR>
>the right time...  <g><BR>
<BR>
You did.  I now have four penguins to bring to the party next year.  Four<BR>
highly trained attack penguins.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:58:37<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
At 05:01 PM 9/13/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Being relatively new to the list I must ask what is the big deal about<BR>
>penguins?<BR>
<BR>
Ah.  That would be my fault.<BR>
<BR>
I'm the co-author, with James Lindsay, of _At Close Quarters_, a variant<BR>
combat system for Traveller, which is published by BITS.<BR>
<BR>
Now, I like penguins.  They are amazing little birds, and quite cute in<BR>
their own way.  It's a strange obsession, I know, but what can I say, I'm<BR>
weird.<BR>
<BR>
So, I was writing the section on thrown weapons for ACQ, and listing a few<BR>
examples, and drew a blank.  So I typed "penguins", thinking that I'd come<BR>
back later and replace it with something more reasonable.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I sent that part of the rules off to James, and it came back with a<BR>
section of aerodynamic and non-aerodynamic weapons.  In this section was<BR>
the following:<BR>
<BR>
"Penguins, although very aerodynamic, tend to resist being thrown by<BR>
flapping their little flippers wildly, and are thus treated as non<BR>
aerodynamic for the purposes of these rules."<BR>
<BR>
Once I stopped laughing, I took up the challenge, and ran the stats for<BR>
some penguin species through a weapon design spreadsheet.  So there are two<BR>
species of weapon-grade penguins in ACQ.<BR>
<BR>
This has become a bit of an in joke on the TML over the last few years.  My<BR>
one claim to fame.  At least until GT: Ground Forces comes out..<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:45:00<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
At 12:45 PM 9/14/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>So, I take it that you are going to follow the tradition introduced in the<BR>
>>"Family d'Alembert" series and have Strephon abdicate in favour of Ciencia,<BR>
>>maybe on her 32nd birthday in 1121?? He'll be 71...  ;-) ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>y'see -- this is how rumors get started (smileys or no smileys). Why does a<BR>
>question about birthdays mean that I am going to have Strephon abdicate?<BR>
<BR>
Because we're a rabid bunch of fanboys (and girls) who delight in coming up<BR>
with weird plot twists.<BR>
<BR>
That, and Ciencia is totally hot.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:46:57<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: re: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
At 10:34 AM 9/14/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>When I enter the freeway, two phrases go through my mind:  "engage the<BR>
>overthruster" as I push on the overdrive; and "prepare for the jump to<BR>
>hyperspace" as I merge from the ramp to the freeway.<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
Kirsten and I do the warp-speed count-up from Star Trek, The Motionless<BR>
Picture.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:31:40 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: More Human than Human<BR>
<BR>
>>.  Did it<BR>
>>have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Wasn't that the motto of Nexus Corp. in the movie Bladerunner?<BR>
>Their Nexus 7 models would have given a New Race Draka a decent fight.<BR>
<BR>
You pretty much got it right, except that Tyrell Corp was the name of the<BR>
company, not Nexus.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:38:57 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Hex mapping utility<BR>
<BR>
From today's Info-Mac digest:<BR>
<BR>
(Mac only, and I they're hex grids, six sided, not hexadecimal which<BR>
would be F sided, though that would be rather Travelleresque, now,<BR>
wouldn't it?)<BR>
<BR>
Caveat: Haven't seen this before, haven't tried it before, IANAL, use at<BR>
your own risk, YMMV, do not taunt the Happy Fun Ball.<BR>
<BR>
Here is a convenient place to get it:<BR>
<BR>
http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/HyperArchive.html<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
This version 2.1 of HexMapMaker)<BR>
<BR>
ABOUT HEXMAPMAKER<BR>
<BR>
HexMapMaker is a shareware tool for drawing maps with hexadecimal grids.<BR>
These kind of maps are used in Role Playing Games, but of course you can<BR>
design them for any other purpose.<BR>
<BR>
In addition of having most of the capabilities of a real painting<BR>
program (such<BR>
as lines, rectanges, ovals and round rectangles drawing, drawing and<BR>
filling<BR>
with color and pattern , text writing, rubber tool, etc.), HexMapMaker<BR>
has<BR>
also unique features that greatly simplifies the building of this kind<BR>
of map,<BR>
such as:<BR>
<BR>
- - Three layers map. One layer for color and drawing, one layer for<BR>
terrains<BR>
  and one layer for text. This way, you can for example change an hex<BR>
color<BR>
  without loosing the terrain that lies on top of it.<BR>
<BR>
- - Hex color filling in just two clicks (one for selecting the color and<BR>
one<BR>
  for selecting the filling shape).<BR>
<BR>
- - Predefined terrains. HexMapMaker comes with three predefined libraries<BR>
  for building regions, villages or dungeons.<BR>
<BR>
- - Terrains editor. If you do not like the terrain icons and want to<BR>
modify<BR>
  them, the terrain editor is here for that purpose. Of course, you can<BR>
  also create terrain icons from thin air :-)<BR>
<BR>
- - Terrains repeater. You can repeat a terrain up to 12 times along the X<BR>
or/and Y axis.<BR>
<BR>
- - Various dimension units. You can specify the map dimensions in either<BR>
  cm or m or km. Alternatively, American people may prefer to use the<BR>
  ft, ya or mi dimension units.<BR>
<BR>
- - Selective drag or clear. As the map is made of three layers, you can<BR>
specify<BR>
  which map layer(s) you want to drag or clear.<BR>
<BR>
SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS<BR>
<BR>
Power or 68k Macintosh<BR>
256 colors monitor<BR>
System 7.1.2 or better (Mac OS 8 or better recommended)<BR>
11 MB of free RAM (16 MB of free RAM if you design big maps)<BR>
<BR>
WHERE TO FIND THE LATEST VERSION OF HEXMAPMAKER<BR>
********** ABSTRACT CROPPED **********<BR>
<BR>
[Archived as /info-mac/game/hex-map-maker-21.hqx; 1484 K]<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:42:45 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: force fields<BR>
<BR>
(note: this started from some private correspondence, but I'm<BR>
cross-posting it back to the list, because I thionk some folks might be<BR>
interested in my analysis)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> True, but then you'd have to come up with some physical/sociological<BR>
> restriction handwaves to keep things close to canon, no?<BR>
<BR>
Except that given the sheer *size* of Traveller's "Known Space" and the<BR>
likely advantages of some sorts of tech, the social restrictions merely<BR>
explain why the stuff isn't used in *some* places. <BR>
<BR>
>> The problem *is* the implications. Anything useful in space combat<BR>
>> makes grav tanks almost invulnerable, for example.<BR>
><BR>
> Ah! There's something.  I hadn't thought of that connection.  <BR>
><BR>
> I'm sure you could tweak something around such that the power <BR>
> requirements were beyond what a grav tank could reasonably produce<BR>
> and be of reasonable use to a ship but not invincible.<BR>
> [Hmm, but then that might mean even LARGER grav tanks with power plants<BR>
> capable of supporting a shield generator would be feasible. Ogre <BR>
> anyone?  Or maybe just 'house shields' a la Dune.]<BR>
<BR>
See what I mean? <g><BR>
<BR>
> I also like Dune's 'personal shields' for the sole reason that they<BR>
> promote blade combat, something I really like [not just D&D whacking,<BR>
> but fencing (I fenced in college), swashbuckling (I'm listening to <BR>
> the Horatio Hornblower series on tape), and even martial arts (I'm<BR>
> learning Tai Chi Straight Sword form*, and I've often pictured the <BR>
> Vilani having elaborate, rigid sword forms/kata's, possibly even<BR>
> with the scarves on the pommels to distract the enemy,etc.).<BR>
<BR>
Well, Dune type shields have interesting counterbalancing properties. A<BR>
few laser armed robots, and Dune-type shields become a *real* bad idea.<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
My exposure to swordwork has mostly been SCA. And I'm not in shape for<BR>
that anymore.<BR>
<BR>
> I'll have to comb the archives.  One thing I've wondered about it<BR>
> how you could generate a shield/force field that originated at one<BR>
> central point (the generator in the ship) and have it's effect be<BR>
> realized some distance from the ship, surrounding it, only n meters<BR>
> "thick" (as seems popular in SF).  If it's a 'field' you'd think it <BR>
> would have an effect throughout the volume of space affected, strongest <BR>
> nearest the 'field emitter' decreasing as the square/cube of distance.  <BR>
> Would that be an example of the characteristics you are talking about?<BR>
<BR>
There are ways to pull it off. John W. Campbell had a few interesting<BR>
ideas in some of his stories. Such as the "barrier" being the result of<BR>
*two* different fields interacting. They constructively interfere at<BR>
the point you want the barrier to be. This has problems (like why not<BR>
generate a third field that *destructively* interferes, so as to open a<BR>
hole). But it's a better explanation than most. <BR>
<BR>
Me, I just figure that the "field" exerts a "pressure" at the<BR>
"barrier". That lets me treat it like a gas in a container:<BR>
<BR>
P*V = k*E<BR>
<BR>
P = pressure<BR>
V = volume<BR>
E = energy<BR>
k = dimensionless constant.<BR>
<BR>
This passes dimensional analysis (ie same "dimensions" on each side of<BR>
the equation). Which means that at least we aren't talking utter<BR>
nonsense. It may not match reality, but at least it's *possible*. <BR>
<BR>
It doesn't explain why the field starts at a "boundary" nor why it<BR>
doesn't affect stuff inside.<BR>
<BR>
Still, it gives us something that lets us draw up rules. And<BR>
limitations. The bigger the field, the more power. The field has to be<BR>
continuous (ie no holes or openings, and *definitely* none of the silly<BR>
flat fields that you can walk around). <BR>
<BR>
Also, since it exerts a *force* (pressure is force per unit of area),<BR>
it's *not* "infinitely rigid". With a bit of work, you can figure out<BR>
stuff like how fast a projectile of a given size/mass has to be to be<BR>
stopped, and how much it's slowed if it isn't stopped. Or how powerful<BR>
a PAW or laser pulse has to be to penetrate.<BR>
<BR>
Another fun bit with the volume bit is that you can increase the<BR>
strength of the field by making it smaller. On the other hand, that<BR>
reduces the amount of distance over which it can exert its force. <BR>
<BR>
Force*distance = energy. In this case, the amount of energy the field<BR>
subtracts from incoming projectiles or beams. <BR>
<BR>
Another interesting thing.  The field requires a certain amount of<BR>
energy to set up. Once set up, it only requires *more* energy when it's<BR>
resisting something. That is, if it can subtract 100 MJ from an<BR>
incoming beam/projectile, then you have to supply that 100 MJ.<BR>
<BR>
So if you can't replace the energy fast enough, the field may weaken<BR>
locally (or globally, your choice). It also means that multiple attacks<BR>
are harder to stop than single ones. <BR>
<BR>
All this from a minor assumption and some *simple* physics.<BR>
<BR>
> Then I wonder about grav tech and the physics behind that - if there's<BR>
> a Grand Unified Theory that allow manipulation of gravity with some<BR>
> interchange between electro-magnetic/nuclear forces, would that allow<BR>
> some kind of shields.<BR>
<BR>
It's more likely to allow tractor and pressor beams. Which change a<BR>
*lot* of the Traveller universe.<BR>
  <BR>
> Ah, I haven't gotten into thruster plates much (being raised on CT and <BR>
> missing MT during college).  Those are things to think about.  I <BR>
> thought I read some posts recently about near-c rocks that implied that<BR>
> in order to actually build one and get it to it's target destination<BR>
> required such time that the opposition would likely be able to avoid <BR>
> it, overcome it, or abandon the target before it arrived and/or could<BR>
> launch a counterattack before it struck - thus a kind of stalemate.<BR>
<BR>
Not really. If you can get something close to c, it'll arrive rather<BR>
close to any possible warning. And we are talking planet-busters here.<BR>
You can't target anything *movable* with enough accuracy. So you target<BR>
planets or asteroids. And hit them hard enough to ruin them.<BR>
<BR>
At 1% of c, it takes takes 5.8 *days* to get from 1000 AU to the target.<BR>
<BR>
At 99% it takes 1.4 *hours*. <BR>
<BR>
It only takes 13.9 *hours* at 6 g to reach 1% of c.<BR>
<BR>
It takes 58.5 days to reach .99 c (actually, it'll take much longer due<BR>
to relativistic effects). <BR>
<BR>
> I.e., no physics handwave necessary, but a sociological restriction.<BR>
> (Of course I suppose the problem there is that some how, some time, <BR>
> some one [player] will want to attempt to use such technology.)<BR>
<BR>
Yep. We generally assume MAD type restrictions. The problem is that any<BR>
terrorist group that can get a scout ship can destroy a planet.<BR>
<BR>
> Did you see my post about the particle shielding used in Ben Bova's<BR>
> "Return to Mars"?  Have you read that?<BR>
<BR>
I don't think I saw the post. As I recall, I was somewhat skeptical<BR>
about the shielding when I read the book (I'm thinking it was some sort<BR>
of electromagnetic effect). "Shadow" shielding is much simpler.<BR>
   <BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:50:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
>>> 1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
>><BR>
>>Real hard to justify.<BR>
><BR>
>     How so, if White Globes are canon already?<BR>
<BR>
White globes (mostly) work like Langston fields. Which act *very*<BR>
differently than any "classical" SF shield or force field. <BR>
<BR>
And having shields that have "hit points" is really difficult to<BR>
justify. Ones where the shield is generated by multiple generators,<BR>
which can be burned out isn't quite the same thing. For one thing, that<BR>
tends to give "gaps" in the shields, rather than weaker shields.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:09:13 +0100<BR>
From: Andy Brick <andy@caco.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names<BR>
<BR>
There's a couple of quaint villages in the UK called "Nasty" and "Ugly" ... which<BR>
leads to such wonderful signs as the "Nasty Village Hall" and the "Ugly Women's<BR>
Institute" ... I guess that the inhabitants get a little fed up with it all ..<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Andy Brick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:57:18 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> OB-Trav: A TL9 planet is currently experience a fuel crisis,<BR>
>>> brought about by the high duty on LH2 refining(metallic impurities<BR>
>>> in the hydrosphere make wilderness refueling impossible, and there<BR>
>>> is no gas giant in-system).<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Sorry, won't work. as long as there's water, it doesn't *matter* what<BR>
>> the impurities are. Run an electric current thru it and you'll get<BR>
>> hydrogen (and oxygen). The few metals that'll come off *before*<BR>
>> hydrogen does are silver, gold and copper. All of which are worth<BR>
>> extracting on their own. <BR>
><BR>
> Sure, building a water cracker in your garage is no problem, but could you<BR>
> really provide enough Jump-fuel for a Free-Trader?<BR>
<BR>
The crew of the Free Trtader could do it. At worst, rig up a big<BR>
container, pipe in water, boil it, and feed the steam to the fuel<BR>
processor. Scrape the deposits out every so often.<BR>
<BR>
> Besides, just because the refinary can make money selling recovered<BR>
> precious metals on the side, doesn't mean that an unscrupulous govt.<BR>
> isn't going to set taxes through the roof. British Petrol costs are<BR>
> 80% taxes (we pay about 64p duty on petrol, compared to the US 8p)<BR>
> even though we're a fair-sized producer of crude ourselves (the North<BR>
> Sea oil fields).<BR>
<BR>
They can only do that because oil is hard to get at (the average person<BR>
can't easily get crude oil) and it's difficult to convert it to usable<BR>
form (refining enough oil at home to run your car and heat your house<BR>
just isn't practical). <BR>
<BR>
But as long as water is available in reasonable amounts, extracting<BR>
hydrogen from it is easy. Any LH2 storage system has to be able to<BR>
chill H2 gas to liquid except for temporary transfer dewars (flasks).<BR>
<BR>
If a particular isotope is needed, then you need some somewhat more<BR>
expensive equipment. <BR>
<BR>
> Also, I'd suggest that the heavier metallic compounds in the planets<BR>
> water interfere with the function of ship-board fuel processors,<BR>
> which are designed to convert normal (ie roughly terrestrial)<BR>
> sea-water or gas-giant atmosphere to L-Hyd.<BR>
<BR>
Again, by adding a "distillation" step, you can bypass the salts<BR>
completely. Or you can pump down the container below the vapor pressure<BR>
of water and collect water vapor that way. <BR>
 <BR>
>> So, the *only* reason hydrogen can be more than a bit more expensive<BR>
>> than usual is if the hydro percentage on planet is *zero*. That is,<BR>
>> there's only enough water on world for "life support" uses.<BR>
><BR>
> The only reason other than greed on the part of the suppliers/regulators.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but that's like trying to tax air. It's too easy to extract<BR>
hydrogen on your own. <BR>
<BR>
Oil and hydrogen just aren't comparable as far as difficulty of<BR>
extracting and purification go.<BR>
<BR>
>> If there's even a 1% hydro, there's more than enough water to make<BR>
>> fuel, and as I note above, contaminants are merely inconvenient. <BR>
>> <BR>
>>> The local government, a charismatic dictatorship ;) , has requested<BR>
>>> that processed hydrogen be brought in from a nearby system (no, it<BR>
>>> doesn't make economic sense).<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Neither does having local LH2 be so hideously expensive *unless* the<BR>
>> planet is a waterless rockball.<BR>
><BR>
> As noted above, the high prices don't have to make sense...if they did<BR>
> noone(with half an ounce of sense) object to them. <BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but the problem is that it's like trying to prohibit alcohol.<BR>
It's just too easy to flout the regulations. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:10:16 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Hydrogen needs for power are actually pretty damn small. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> In any case, "refining" isn't that hard to do. You could rig up a<BR>
>> workable setup in your garage. <BR>
><BR>
> How about compressing the H2 into liquid?<BR>
<BR>
You *can't* turn hydrogen into a liquid by compressing it. Any temp<BR>
people can live at is *way* above hydrogen's critical temperature<BR>
(that's the temp above which *no* amount of pressure can liquefy a<BR>
gas).<BR>
<BR>
And since any *storage* system for hydrogen has to be able to keep it<BR>
that cold (and re-liquefy evaporation), you can just feed the gas into<BR>
the right pipes.<BR>
<BR>
Hell, rig a heat exchanger and use some of the LH2 you already have to<BR>
cool the gas. Since you need to warm it up to a gas before feeding it<BR>
into a reactor *anyway*, there's likely a usable heat exchanger section<BR>
anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Or you can just feed the gas directly into the reactor as needed, and<BR>
skip the liquid storage.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:17:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> Unfortunately, the abjectly poor will fall victim to any disaster that <BR>
> cuts<BR>
>>> off supplies, along with the rich and unprepared.  How much will a can of<BR>
>>> beans be worth, when there are no more cans being delivered?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Also, as Kiri noted, it's for folks with cars.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Of course, I'm spoiled, I live *literally* next door to an Albertson's.<BR>
><BR>
> Leonard.  If things get really ugly, We will make sure you survive.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I can *walk* (though I'd more likely ride my bike) to where the<BR>
friend who is storing my rifles and ammo lives. <eg><BR>
<BR>
> I have a feeling that you are one of those people who will have the<BR>
> arcane, obscure knowledge that we'll need some day.<BR>
<BR>
You mean like how to extract saltpeter from manure? Or how to produce<BR>
sulfuric acid and nitric acid? <BR>
<BR>
Alas, *sulfur* is gonna be a *bitch* to obtain if we ever get to that<BR>
point. :-(<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3048<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3049</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/14/00 2:30:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 14 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3049<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Dune-type personal force fields<BR>
Re: More Human than Human<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Yoyodyne<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: More Human than Human<BR>
Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Fuel Costs (was:  several threads)<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
Re: Place Names and Pierrefonds<BR>
Re: Naming patterns<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:21:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> on 9/13/00 5:58 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> "Nutria"?  Do you live in Louisiana, sir?  If so, in which city/parish?<BR>
>> (I live in Baton Rouge, LA.)  Should we try to get together for some<BR>
>> Traveller?<BR>
><BR>
> We're in Portland, Oregon.  Yes, some fool decided it would be a good idea<BR>
> to import nutria from the south to raise for fur.  Now we have giant<BR>
> rat-looking critters running around.<BR>
<BR>
You mean *besides* possums... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:58:32 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Dune-type personal force fields<BR>
<BR>
At 11:42 AM 9/14/00 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>(note: this started from some private correspondence, but I'm<BR>
>cross-posting it back to the list, because I thionk some folks might be<BR>
>interested in my analysis)<BR>
<BR>
>> I also like Dune's 'personal shields' for the sole reason that they<BR>
>> promote blade combat, something I really like [not just D&D whacking,<BR>
>> but fencing (I fenced in college), swashbuckling (I'm listening to <BR>
>> the Horatio Hornblower series on tape), and even martial arts (I'm<BR>
>> learning Tai Chi Straight Sword form*, and I've often pictured the <BR>
>> Vilani having elaborate, rigid sword forms/kata's, possibly even<BR>
>> with the scarves on the pommels to distract the enemy,etc.).<BR>
><BR>
>Well, Dune type shields have interesting counterbalancing properties. A<BR>
>few laser armed robots, and Dune-type shields become a *real* bad idea.<BR>
>:-)<BR>
<BR>
I've always thought that a piezoelectric (sp?) laser incorporated into a<BR>
rifle bullet would be a neat countermeasure to Dune-type personal shields.<BR>
<BR>
You can't be too far away when you fire the round. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------[IMTU]-----------------------------<BR>
Held within the pressure dome, a-top Olympus Mons.<BR>
I taste my bitter triumph, as the mad assembly-man.<BR>
Nevermore shall I return, escape these caves of vice!<BR>
For I have used tax revenue, to court the vote of parasites.<BR>
<BR>
- -- Author Unknown, Cultural Archives, University of Freya<BR>
- ------------------------[IMTU]------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:31:50 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Arthur Boff <ajboff@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More Human than Human<BR>
<BR>
>>Wasn't that the motto of Nexus Corp. in the movie<BR>
>>Bladerunner? Their Nexus 7 models would have given a<BR>
>>New Race Draka a decent fight.<BR>
><BR>
>You pretty much got it right, except that Tyrell Corp<BR>
>was the name of the company, not Nexus.<BR>
<BR>
And they were Nexus 6 replicants, not Nexus 7.<BR>
<BR>
Interestingly, in the orignal novel it was the Rosen<BR>
Corp, not the Tyrell. PKD wrote another book called<BR>
"We Can Build You" which features a bunch of Rosens<BR>
with a family electric organ (as in the musical<BR>
instrument) business branching out into robot<BR>
manufacture (it was written before Do Androids Dream<BR>
of Electric Sheep? but published afterwards I think).<BR>
It could be that "We Can Build You" is a prequel to<BR>
"Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?", based before<BR>
World War Terminus.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:31:32 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Rodney Basler" <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 4:21 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>In a productive year they have so much meat, even after selling most of<BR>
>the surplus stock at auction, giving away food to thier children (one of<BR>
>the things I miss now that I live 100 miles away), etc. that they have two<BR>
>chest freezers to store it all in.<BR>
><BR>
>One of father's worries is that if the power goes out for any length of<BR>
>time the neighbours won't be albe to take the surplus because they've all<BR>
>got similar stocks and he'll have to dig a large hole and bury it all.<BR>
<BR>
One word:  Jerky.<BR>
And at the price they sell the chemical-laden, overprocessed stuff<BR>
they jokingly call 'jerky' in the stores, he could probably make a fair<BR>
penny selling the extra, too.<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't Jerly require plety of heat to be produced, you know leaving strips<BR>
of meat in the sun? Is there enough sun shine in Japan? How about surplus<BR>
firewood for smoking the meat? Hey could save them loads in not having to<BR>
run the freezer. Maybe make a market for Japanese Jerky!!?<BR>
<BR>
It's an idea anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:32:29 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: <Sethkimmel@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 4:42 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/14/00 7:46:36 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Skaran@bigpond.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< What we do lack is self propelled artillery. >><BR>
<BR>
what towed tubes and prime movers do you use?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Isn't this called a rocket or a missile?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:34:33 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Rodney Basler" <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 4:43 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
><BR>
>For your edification, please add the following two entries<BR>
>to this display of exotic nominclature:<BR>
<BR>
I'm at work and away from an atlas (Net?  Fie on thee!  The net is<BR>
no substitute for the feel of a heavy book in your hands!), but isn't there<BR>
a town in Britain somewhere called "Bushy"?  I gather the popular saying is<BR>
"You've got to go through Bushy to get where you're going..."<BR>
<BR>
Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think, they don't tell me _what_ to think<BR>
Isn't that beautifull place called Vulva valley on the pthere side of that<BR>
town called Bushy?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:49:26 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> It's all wel and good saying we should become vegetarians, though what<BR>
about<BR>
> us blood thirsty lot?<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
You skulk your way to the Carnivore Club for a little socially unacceptable<BR>
meat eating.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
**************<BR>
: )<BR>
There's nothing like eating after a fresh kill.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:58:45 -0500<BR>
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > << True; OTOH, cats are an effective predator (probably more so than all<BR>
> >  but the smallest dogs) against disease vector vermin (such as various<BR>
> >  rodents).  If Hard Times strike, I want a few cats around my village.... >><BR>
<BR>
> > my three spoiled heads wouldn't know what to do with a mouse, though if I cut<BR>
> > off the supply of Tender Vittles...:-)<BR>
 <BR>
> Mine would:<BR>
 <BR>
> "Play with it until it breaks...then leave it in the middle of the floor<BR>
> to show your disgust with the fragility of toys these days."<BR>
<BR>
Precisely! <g>  In-house cats usually aren't great *hunters*, but they<BR>
still have the killer instinct. A garden snake got into the house a few<BR>
years ago and our three cats spent an exciting half-hour playing with<BR>
the string that moved and tried to strike them. They were very<BR>
inefficient in their killing methods, but they got the job done.  But,<BR>
no, they didn't eat it...it wasn't food, for them food comes from a can<BR>
or a bag and doesn't fight back. <g><BR>
<BR>
Re: the subject line...I agree with Ben, that the UK government will<BR>
insure that food supplies aren't disrupted, one way or another. If they<BR>
let *too* much disruption happen it will be bad for the party in power.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller, yes, Hard Times, Long Night and Virus all come to mind.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:59:23 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Wasn't Yoyodyne also in Robocop?  It made the robotic police units.  Did<BR>
it<BR>
> have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
><BR>
That's from Blade Runner's Tyrrel corp.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
Form Tyrrels lips him self, reminds me of having dinner in Zimbabwe, there<BR>
mannerism are more English than English...<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:26:20 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 13 Sep 2000, at 17:49, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> No thanks. They are almost as bad as pig or long pig as far as the risk<BR>
>> of catching something.<BR>
><BR>
> With pigs at least the 'secret' is simply to be careful in handling<BR>
> the carcass and to cook the meat until it is well done all the way<BR>
> through. This really means that if it's at all dubious it should be<BR>
> stewed, not grilled or fried.<BR>
<BR>
You can fry or grill on "low" heat. That takes considerably longer, but<BR>
results in meat that's cooked all the way thru *without* turning the<BR>
outside to charcoal. <BR>
<BR>
Or you can use one of my favorite tricks, season the meat, wrap it in<BR>
foil, and either bury it in coals or toss it in a 450 F oven for an<BR>
hour. <BR>
<BR>
There's also the standard "pit barbeque" like the Polynesians used. The<BR>
meat gets *steamed* for hours. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:30:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>     Correct, but then again we are talking about little mom & pop Free<BR>
> Traders here.  Now using gas as an example, compared to Refined Hydrogen.<BR>
> If RH costs $5,000/ton in the US, it costs about $15,000/ton in the UK (if I<BR>
> have my figures right, my aunt just flew back & was amazed that gas cost<BR>
> about a third here what it does in England).  So what this means is that<BR>
> most Free Traders will have to risk their ship in fuel scooping from a Gas<BR>
> Giant, or fuel scooping from an ocean.  Both, IIRC, are somewhat dangerous<BR>
> for a standard Free Trader.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. They can just hook up to the city *water* and run *that* thru the<BR>
fuel refiner. And the pads *will* have water & sewer hookups. Or they<BR>
can take cargo containers for liquids, haul them simewhere and fill<BR>
them with water, then load them onto the ship, process the water, and<BR>
haul out the empties. <BR>
<BR>
If they shuffle enough other containers in and out (while making<BR>
various trades for "better" cargo) it'd be hard to spot what they were<BR>
doing, even if you *looked*.<BR>
<BR>
It's not *possible* to get away with prices that high for hydrogen<BR>
*because* you get it from water. <BR>
<BR>
Oil has to be drilled for. And takes *large* and expensive gear to turn<BR>
it into fuel. <BR>
<BR>
Hydrogen just takes water, and the only gear you need beyond what you'd<BR>
*already* have for storing LH2 is stuff you can build in the garage.<BR>
<BR>
Any ship that can wilderness refuel *at all* can process drinkable<BR>
water into fuel. And turning any sort of water short of swamp mud into<BR>
drinkable water merely requires some heat and piping. Or a good vacuum<BR>
pump.<BR>
<BR>
And you can hide an "illegal" refinery in a *small* warehouse. Fuel<BR>
purifiers aren't *that* expensive.<BR>
<BR>
What you are talking about isn't that far from trying to tax *air*. It<BR>
only works if air (even polluted air) is hard to get.<BR>
<BR>
So, as I said, unless the planet is a waterless rockball, you *can't*<BR>
jack up the price of hydrogen by all that much. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:01:37 -0500<BR>
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Mine would:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Play with it until it breaks...then leave it in the middle<BR>
> > of the floor<BR>
> > to show your disgust with the fragility of toys these days."<BR>
 <BR>
> Better than 'Play with it until you get bored, let it go in the middle of<BR>
> the kitchen, watch it find its way into the washer-dryer where is causes a<BR>
> short-circuit' :( Bad kitty.<BR>
<BR>
Hee, hee! That's where having 2 or 3 comes in handy. When one gets bored<BR>
another takes over. <g><BR>
<BR>
> Ob-Trav...Local vermin finds its way into the PCs ship while planetside and<BR>
> cause a malfunction...a couple of minutes out of orbit. It's a wilderness<BR>
> planet...and you're still in the gravity well...<BR>
<BR>
That's why every Free Trader worth it's salt has a couple of ship's cats<BR>
aboard! <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:06:17 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: More Human than Human<BR>
<BR>
>.  Did it<BR>
>have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
<BR>
Wasn't that the motto of Nexus Corp. in the movie Bladerunner?<BR>
Their Nexus 7 models would have given a New Race Draka a decent fight.<BR>
<BR>
************<BR>
nexus 7, sound like fun  : )<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:09:22 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
> > How about compressing the H2 into liquid?<BR>
><BR>
> You *can't* turn hydrogen into a liquid by compressing it. Any temp<BR>
> people can live at is *way* above hydrogen's critical temperature<BR>
> (that's the temp above which *no* amount of pressure can liquefy a<BR>
> gas).<BR>
><BR>
> And since any *storage* system for hydrogen has to be able to keep it<BR>
> that cold (and re-liquefy evaporation), you can just feed the gas into<BR>
> the right pipes.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Why not store hydrogen by compressing it into hydride?  Sure it's bulky, but<BR>
the gas is released slowly so there's no worry about nasty H2 explosions.<BR>
Plus you get a compression factor of about 1000 (It's not really<BR>
compression, as the hydrogen forms an 'alloy' ).  Hydrides are much more<BR>
efficient ways to store gaseous hydrogen.<BR>
<BR>
1 litre of hydrogen compressed at 5,000 psi    31 grams<BR>
1 litre of liquid hydrogen at -250c                      71 grams<BR>
1 litre of hydride                                                100 grams<BR>
H2<BR>
<BR>
The downside is the weight.  But it's not as bad as one might think, and the<BR>
safety factor alone is propbably worth the cost.  texaco seems to think so,<BR>
since they plunked down a $68 million investment in Energy Conversion<BR>
Devices, who developed the technology (and also the LiMH battery).<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:09:56 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Eris Reddoch writes:<BR>
<BR>
> > Ob-Trav...Local vermin finds its way into the PCs ship while planetside<BR>
> > and cause a malfunction...a couple of minutes out of orbit. It's a<BR>
> > wilderness planet...and you're still in the gravity well...<BR>
> <BR>
> That's why every Free Trader worth it's salt has a couple of ship's cats<BR>
> aboard! <BR>
<BR>
Ah yes.  Who needs planetary vermin when you can bring your own with you ;)<BR>
<BR>
Fortunately for traveller merchants, large portions of a traveller starship<BR>
are horribly lethal to normal life-forms, which keeps the vermin count down.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:11:48 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fuel Costs (was:  several threads)<BR>
<BR>
>From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
>Subject: Fuel Costs (was:  several threads)<BR>
><BR>
>2)  power...lots of it.  This is<BR>
>tremendously easy to monitor  (just _how_ many kilowatts is that<BR>
>single-family home pulling?  hmmmm.....)  You can't tap off your air-raft<BR>
>because that has a fusion powerplant that requires...you got it...hydrogen<BR>
>fuel.<BR>
<BR>
	Doh!!  Brainfart!  You get a lot more power out of fusing the fuel<BR>
then you burn by cracking the hydrogen, so you come up ahead.<BR>
<BR>
	On the other hand, even though we no longer have prohibition here in<BR>
the US, alcohol is taxed, often rather heavily, so I believe there is still<BR>
a subculture that brews their own (heck, _I_ did it back in high school, but<BR>
I was more interested in the process than the end result - any list members<BR>
down in the southern regions have any idea how much moonshining still goes<BR>
on?)  <BR>
	Remember that even if you can crack the water into hydrogen, the end<BR>
product has to be transported, and a cryogenic fluid like LH2 is a bit<BR>
harder to cart around than room-temperature alcohol.  You also have to move<BR>
a lot more to fill a ship's tanks.  In addition, there is this waste product<BR>
called oxygen that had to be disposed of.  A repressive government might<BR>
have a net of laser spectrophotometers around the area, looking for telltale<BR>
plumes of oxygen.  <BR>
	While enforcement rapidly gets expensive, remember that governments<BR>
rarely behave in a "rational" manner; they are often like living organisms<BR>
that grow and expand as much as possible.  The government applies a small<BR>
tax on fuel.  Then a little more...then a little more.  Each painless step<BR>
adds up until it becomes profitable to start cracking hydrogen.  Then the<BR>
government has to enforce the laws, so a department is created, requiring<BR>
more money...more taxes...more enforcement...more incentive to evade the<BR>
law...then more enforcement.  The cycle feeds on itself.  <BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:14:52 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Why not store hydrogen by compressing it into hydride?  Sure it's bulky,<BR>
> but the gas is released slowly so there's no worry about nasty H2<BR>
> explosions. Plus you get a compression factor of about 1000 (It's not really<BR>
> compression, as the hydrogen forms an 'alloy' ).  Hydrides are much more<BR>
> efficient ways to store gaseous hydrogen.<BR>
<BR>
Probably because traveller jump drives apparently need their hydrogen very<BR>
quickly, much faster than a hydride can release it.  Otherwise, given <BR>
abundant fusion energy, there's all sorts of chemical storage methods<BR>
which are more space-efficient than liquid hydrogen.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:16:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> > Ob-Trav...Local vermin finds its way into the PCs ship while planetside<BR>
and<BR>
> > cause a malfunction...a couple of minutes out of orbit. It's a<BR>
wilderness<BR>
> > planet...and you're still in the gravity well...<BR>
><BR>
> That's why every Free Trader worth it's salt has a couple of ship's cats<BR>
> aboard!<BR>
<BR>
That assumes the vermin doesn't eat the cat, or poison it.  A cat (or<BR>
smaller) sized robot would be more efficient.  it doesn't get bored, wander<BR>
off, nap, poop in your shoe, yowl, scratch or bit you.  Personally, I'd take<BR>
a terrier over a cat any day.  I want a vermin eradicator, not a spoiled<BR>
room mate.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:18:26 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch writes:<BR>
>>days.  But when it does start to run out... who was it that said<BR>
>>that no civilization is more than 3 square meals from anarchy?<BR>
>>(or something like that)<BR>
>Actual experience in cities and societies experiencing famine or blockade,<BR>
Paris<BR>
>in 1870, Sarajevo, Bangladesh, Somalia, etc etc, shows that civilisation<BR>
is very<BR>
>robust. These situations almost never happen overnight and what happens is an<BR>
>erosion of civil society. People respond to familiar patterns of<BR>
organisation,<BR>
>emergency services, cops, doctors, paramedics etc carry on working. A fairly<BR>
>large number of people (the percentage varies from culture to culture) die of<BR>
>malnutrition or related diseases long *before* there is a complete<BR>
breakdown of<BR>
>civil society.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
	This is true.  I don't really expect hoards of crazed citizens to roam<BR>
	the streets 24 hours after the food runs out, but there will be incidents.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:20:52 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
> > Why not store hydrogen by compressing it into hydride?  Sure it's bulky,<BR>
> > but the gas is released slowly so there's no worry about nasty H2<BR>
> > explosions. Plus you get a compression factor of about 1000 (It's not<BR>
really<BR>
> > compression, as the hydrogen forms an 'alloy' ).  Hydrides are much more<BR>
> > efficient ways to store gaseous hydrogen.<BR>
><BR>
> Probably because traveller jump drives apparently need their hydrogen very<BR>
> quickly, much faster than a hydride can release it.  Otherwise, given<BR>
> abundant fusion energy, there's all sorts of chemical storage methods<BR>
> which are more space-efficient than liquid hydrogen.<BR>
<BR>
Is this canon?  Isn't fuel usually stored as water anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Tod (who really wants to know)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:18:34 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
<< The warrant is said to be ON<BR>
 Algine, in a WRECKED cruiser. Algine is not Shionthy, the Kinunir wasn't<BR>
 wrecked. >><BR>
<BR>
>I think the Markhashi was the one wrecked on Algine.<BR>
<BR>
Now I've always thought that there is a lot more to the story than has ever<BR>
been told just so the GM could fill it in. IMTU I maintain that Norris and<BR>
Ciencia Iphegenia Alkhalikoi are deeply involved, which explains why<BR>
Strephon entrusted a duke who he hardly knew with an Imperial Warrant to<BR>
begin with. The cruiser didn't just happen to wreck while delivering a<BR>
document to the man who would use it to relieve the man in charge of all IN<BR>
ships in the sector. It was intercepted to prevent that document from being<BR>
delivered and forced down on Algine. It was in Algine's system because it<BR>
was seconded to the IISS (which has a base there).<BR>
<BR>
I haven't played out Kinunir, but if I did I would say that that Imperial<BR>
Warrant was from an earlier period, issued by Strephon for the Fourth<BR>
Frontier War, and later revolked. PC's who find it will have a devil of a<BR>
time using it if **Any** Imperial Noble hears they have it, as all will know<BR>
that it's been rescinded if they realize it's from the Kinunir. They might<BR>
get by with using it on some local minor Imperial official who hasn't got<BR>
the word, if they're lucky and don't stick around to long.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:21:22 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Place Names and Pierrefonds<BR>
<BR>
>Guy Lemire writes:<BR>
>>You wouldn't still happen to live in the area, do you?  I am considering<BR>
>>firing up the ol' Traveller campaign again, and it'd be nice to talk with<BR>
>>other locals.  (My gaming group consists of the characters depicted in the<BR>
>>GURPS: First In illo with the four dubious-looking sorts getting decorated<BR>
>>by s stuffy white guy that I suspect I should be offended concerning...<BR>
>>With friends like these, who needs any more trouble?)<BR>
>  Yes I am , I`m moving but to an other part of Pierrefonds . I`d like to<BR>
>play but I must admit I havent<BR>
>played live in years (and only did so a few time) , I mostly did pbem (BBS<BR>
>and net ) free form .<BR>
>Pat<BR>
<BR>
	I am in Ville St-Laurent, and would be interested in some gaming once<BR>
	my life settles down a bit (I just started a new job that has me<BR>
	trying to remember what free time was like).<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:21:33 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Naming patterns<BR>
><BR>
>At 09:58 AM 9/13/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Ano Nuevo (New Years Day)<BR>
><BR>
>Funny, I though Ano Nuevo was spanish for "What is that elephant seal<BR>
>doing to omygod Ethel, cover the kids' eyes and run!"<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
	Had I been drinking something, that would have been a keyboard<BR>
kill...<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT and still has a little of his high-school spanish<BR>
(living in SoCal helps)<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - they just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:24:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> You skulk your way to the Carnivore Club for a little socially<BR>
unacceptable<BR>
> meat eating.<BR>
><BR>
> Tod<BR>
><BR>
> **************<BR>
> : )<BR>
> There's nothing like eating after a fresh kill.<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
<BR>
Interestingly, that nice, well-aged steak we buy in a restaurant is one that<BR>
we probably would never buy in the market.  Partially rotted for flavor and<BR>
tenderness--yum!  Fresh meat pales in comparison.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, you meant eating a nice well aged steak after killing someone?!<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3049<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3050</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 14 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3050<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3048<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Fuel Costs (was:  several threads)<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
RE: Diplomacy<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: Escaping from Poughkeepsie<BR>
Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Hydrogen<BR>
Traveller websites, please note:<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
PG-13 place names<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:29:48 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
<BR>
> > Probably because traveller jump drives apparently need their hydrogen<BR>
> > very quickly, much faster than a hydride can release it.  Otherwise,<BR>
> > given abundant fusion energy, there's all sorts of chemical storage<BR>
> > methods which are more space-efficient than liquid hydrogen.<BR>
> <BR>
> Is this canon?  Isn't fuel usually stored as water anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Fuel is stored as liquid hydrogen.  The existence of drop tanks argues for<BR>
the hydrogen being spent at the start of the jump, rather than gradually<BR>
over a week; in addition, the fact that you could otherwise use chemical<BR>
storage and a fuel processing plant and free up a lot of volume on a <BR>
merchant ship argues in favor of this distinction.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:42:35 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
> Fuel is stored as liquid hydrogen.  The existence of drop tanks argues for<BR>
> the hydrogen being spent at the start of the jump, rather than gradually<BR>
> over a week; in addition, the fact that you could otherwise use chemical<BR>
> storage and a fuel processing plant and free up a lot of volume on a<BR>
> merchant ship argues in favor of this distinction.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Drop tanks!? fah.  We don't need no stibking drop tanks.  Not in MTU anyway.<BR>
Have drop tanks been ackowledged by the list? I thought this was still a<BR>
matter of some debate.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:04:21 -0400<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
on 9/14/00 10:51 AM, Douglas E. Berry at gridlore@pop.mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
>> You know, I begin to suspect that I escaped from San Francisco at just about<BR>
>> the right time...  <g><BR>
> <BR>
> You did.  I now have four penguins to bring to the party next year.  Four<BR>
> highly trained attack penguins.<BR>
<BR>
*Shudder*<BR>
<BR>
And to think I was considering moving back when my back got fixed!  I'll<BR>
know better; forewarned is uninjured by flapping penguins!<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn<BR>
coburn@sympatico.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:56:05 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3048<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry done wrote:<BR>
> At 09:58 AM 9/13/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Ano Nuevo (New Years Day)<BR>
> <BR>
> Funny, I though Ano Nuevo was spanish for "What is that elephant seal doing<BR>
> to omygod Ethel, cover the kids' eyes and run!"<BR>
> <BR>
> In-joke for NorCal folks.<BR>
<BR>
My SO, at the time a recent marine biology grad from UCSC, offered to take me <BR>
to see the elephant seals beat one another bloody and all those other things<BR>
they do, for Valentine's Day (which is in prime elephant seal mating season). <BR>
<BR>
She's sooooo romantic. *swoon*<BR>
<BR>
However, I still insist that "ano nuevo" is Spanish for what comes after the <BR>
phrase "I'm gonna rip you a..."<BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:05:22 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> You skulk your way to the Carnivore Club for a little socially<BR>
unacceptable<BR>
> meat eating.<BR>
><BR>
> Tod<BR>
><BR>
> **************<BR>
> : )<BR>
> There's nothing like eating after a fresh kill.<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
<BR>
Interestingly, that nice, well-aged steak we buy in a restaurant is one that<BR>
we probably would never buy in the market.  Partially rotted for flavor and<BR>
tenderness--yum!  Fresh meat pales in comparison.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, you meant eating a nice well aged steak after killing someone?!<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
Goth, no way.  I hardly ever eat in restaurants.<BR>
It's the fresh meat I prefer, fresh in the knowledge, that just a couple of<BR>
hours earlier, the creature was flowing warm blood, and then staright on the<BR>
plate....... yummy. It just tastes that better after having made the catch<BR>
myself.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:47:23 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Fuel Costs (was:  several threads)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         ObTrav-ing it - what if the planet in question has set a monopoly<BR>
> and is charging a hefty tariff?  They would have to prevent wilderness<BR>
> refueling if there was a large amounts of water available (using air-defense<BR>
> radar?), maybe even charging for the water if you dip below the radar net<BR>
> and show up with full tanks.  Backyard crackers would be tougher with<BR>
> hydrogen because you need:   1) water (water use can be monitored, but the<BR>
> pipes could also be tapped, as long as you snagged a bit then left fast<BR>
> before the watercops showed up), and   2)  power...lots of it.  This is<BR>
> tremendously easy to monitor  (just _how_ many kilowatts is that<BR>
> single-family home pulling?  hmmmm.....)  You can't tap off your air-raft<BR>
> because that has a fusion powerplant that requires...you got it...hydrogen<BR>
> fuel.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but if the house *needs* LH2, it's supplying it's *own* power.<BR>
Ditto for the air raft. The power required to extract hydrogen is a<BR>
*miniscule* fraction of the power you can *produce* from that much<BR>
hydrogen. Like one part in a trillion trillion.<BR>
<BR>
Which is *why* that sort of monopoly can't work. The amount of water<BR>
required to extract a *year's* worth of power for a house is going to<BR>
be on the order of a glass.<BR>
<BR>
Even if we assume it's a *liter*, that's still too little to monitor.<BR>
So is the amount of energy required to refine it.<BR>
<BR>
One *gram* of hydrogen can produce 630 gigajoules. Which is equivalent<BR>
to *all* the power a house with 200 amp 240v service can *possibly*<BR>
draw over the power lines in over 400 *years*.<BR>
<BR>
You can extract a gram of hydrogen from 9 grams of water. That's 9 cc.<BR>
or about 2 *teaspoons* of water.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, this shows just how inefficient Traveller power plants are. Even<BR>
so, they don't need *that* much fuel. What's a 45 kW power plant need<BR>
for fuel under the rules? (45 kW is the "max draw" for a house that I<BR>
refer to above).<BR>
<BR>
Jump fuel is another matter. Then again, you can get a ton of jump fuel<BR>
from 9 tons of water. And that 9 tons occupies only 2/3rds of a dton. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:11:28 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
> You skulk your way to the Carnivore Club for a little socially<BR>
unacceptable<BR>
> meat eating.<BR>
><BR>
> Tod<BR>
><BR>
> **************<BR>
> : )<BR>
> There's nothing like eating after a fresh kill.<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
<BR>
Interestingly, that nice, well-aged steak we buy in a restaurant is one that<BR>
we probably would never buy in the market.  Partially rotted for flavor and<BR>
tenderness--yum!  Fresh meat pales in comparison.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, you meant eating a nice well aged steak after killing someone?!<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm, after a little thought, I would killing a mark a meal in itself.<BR>
Though mixing business with pleasure is possibly a mistake. now you ask,<BR>
which is business and which is pleasure?<BR>
Best steak I've ever eaten was an Impala steak, yummy such a suckulent piece<BR>
of meat.<BR>
<BR>
Mike....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:15:29 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
>>I would think that the Imperial nobility acts as a pseudo<BR>
>>ambassador/representative between the<BR>
* >various political interests in the<BR>
>>region. (Talk about pork and intrigue)<BR>
><BR>
>No, the Imperial nobility is charged with protecting Imperial interests.<BR>
>Imperial nobles are never diplomats for member states.  That would be a<BR>
>conflict of interest.<BR>
><BR>
Not at all. The purpose of the Imperial Nobility is to represent the<BR>
Imperium to the member state and the member state to the Imperium. The<BR>
Imperium in this case is the Imperial government and other Imperial member<BR>
worlds. Don't forget in many cases Imperial Nobles in early Imperial times<BR>
were planetary rulers who were given Imperial titles. Some are still local<BR>
nobles, Kings, Czars and such who are equivalent in rank to Barons, but<BR>
still counted as members of the Imperial Nobility. As I was explaining to a<BR>
fellow gamer just today: The Nobles run the Imperium. They run the<BR>
Megacorps. As long as the Imperium does well, the Megacorps do well. As long<BR>
as the Megacorps do well, the Nobility does well. As long as the Nobility<BR>
does well no one has to die. :)<BR>
<BR>
(My friend is a Fantasy gamer who wanted to know  "what's this Traveller<BR>
stuff all about?")<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:10:50 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Loren asked:<BR>
>>So, I take it that you are going to follow the tradition introduced in the<BR>
>>"Family d'Alembert" series and have Strephon abdicate in favour of Ciencia,<BR>
>>maybe on her 32nd birthday in 1121?? He'll be 71...  ;-) ;-)<BR>
><BR>
>y'see -- this is how rumors get started (smileys or no smileys). Why does a<BR>
>question about birthdays mean that I am going to have Strephon abdicate?<BR>
<BR>
Because I was _trying_ to start a rumour. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Did I succeed? <poke, poke><BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:34:50 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Escaping from Poughkeepsie<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:47:43 -0400 (EDT), Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In additiont to New York (city) and LA, one can escape from Poughkeepsie.<BR>
>FYI, Poughkeepsie is a small city in the Hudson Valley region of New York <BR>
>State.<BR>
>Home of Vasser College, among other things.<BR>
<BR>
>The Autoduel East Coast book has an adventure titled "Escape from <BR>
>Poughkeepsie" written by John Nowak.<BR>
<BR>
For the record, from a native of the area, the name is pronounced<BR>
"Puh-KIP-see"<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:33:08 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know the process for making Liquid Hydrogen?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:12:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
>Re Hydride<BR>
>from Tod:<BR>
> The downside is the weight.  But it's not as bad as one might think, and<BR>
the<BR>
> safety factor alone is propbably worth the cost.  texaco seems to think<BR>
so,<BR>
> since they plunked down a $68 million investment in Energy Conversion<BR>
> Devices, who developed the technology (and also the LiMH battery).<BR>
<BR>
It's not even a downside! The denser fuel is better.<BR>
<BR>
For any fuel, the energy you can extract is proportional to the mass, not<BR>
the volume. So packing fuel into a smaller space still allows you the same<BR>
energy per kilo, just from less volume. This means smaller fuel tanks.<BR>
<BR>
I designed a Grav Sled earlier this evening, for an ice world very poor in<BR>
petrochemicals but with abundant water, so its MHD turbine was powered by<BR>
hydrogen rather than jet fuel. Since LH2 is about fourteen times bigger<BR>
than HCDs for the same mass, the fuel tanks went from about 5% to 25% of<BR>
the vehicle's volume - which meant a fair bit more armour to enclose it,<BR>
and an increase in size from 5 d-tons to 6.<BR>
<BR>
Even more important is fuel for jumpships, since everything to do with jump<BR>
is determined by volume. A J4 1,000 d-ton ship would normally need 400 tons<BR>
of jump fuel, but making the fuel three times as dense gives you another<BR>
260 tons to fill with useful things like drives, weapons, cargo space or<BR>
whatever.<BR>
<BR>
Presumeably jump drives will require specifically *liquid* hydrogen,<BR>
otherwise this would pretty much invalidate most canon designs (again)....<BR>
#:-)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:42:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
> Drop tanks!? fah.  We don't need no stibking drop tanks.  Not in MTU<BR>
anyway.<BR>
> Have drop tanks been ackowledged by the list? I thought this was still a<BR>
> matter of some debate.<BR>
<BR>
They're listed in High Guard, and that's good enough for me.<BR>
<BR>
Well, actually I acknowledge they exist, but I don't tend to use them. As<BR>
far as I'm concerned, it's possible to build jump drives which can use drop<BR>
tanks, but most regular jump drives are built the way jump drives always<BR>
have been, and can't. (For various reasons - cost, short supply of the new<BR>
crystals, lack of widespread trust yet etc etc.)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:47:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
> Yeah, but the problem is that it's like trying to prohibit alcohol.<BR>
> It's just too easy to flout the regulations.<BR>
<BR>
In cases where it's easy to break the law, governments have a habit of<BR>
turning to draconian punishment of the few that do get caught, in order to<BR>
deter people. And there are ways to detect fuel cracking; unreliable or<BR>
not, they'll catch at least the odd person.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:45:49 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
> Is this canon?  Isn't fuel usually stored as water anyway?<BR>
<BR>
No. Check the mass requirements - if it was stored as water, then the mass<BR>
requirements for fuel tankage would be much higher.<BR>
<BR>
The whole 'store as metallic hydrides' thing makes rifts easier to cross<BR>
though. But the way to solve that is to make the misjump chance when jumping<BR>
from an empty hex something like 1 in 36, with 1/3 of them being fatal (same<BR>
lurk you use to cripple the commercial use of drop tanks).<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:56:56 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
> Does anyone know the process for making Liquid Hydrogen?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Pressure and refridgeration.  Like liquid nitrogen only colder.<BR>
<BR>
Tod <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:54:30 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
THanks for that, cant spend time surfing the net at work!<BR>
<BR>
Could I trouble the list for another answer?<BR>
<BR>
How much energy is required to Liquify H2, just a qualitative figure<BR>
will do. <BR>
<BR>
Thank you for your patience.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]<BR>
> Sent: Friday, 15 September 2000 8:57<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > Does anyone know the process for making Liquid Hydrogen?<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> Pressure and refridgeration.  Like liquid nitrogen only colder.<BR>
> <BR>
> Tod <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:07:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>><BR>
>>But it'll be a *long* time before I manage to wade thru my complete (16<BR>
> volume) set of the<BR>
>>Arabian Nights...<BR>
><BR>
> Is that Burton's translation?<BR>
<BR>
Yep. An edition printed for members of the Burton Society that<BR>
apparently didn't sell as well as they expected. Got it back in the<BR>
early 80s through Publisher's Clearinghouse. For all of $60. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> If so, do yourself a favor and start reading now.  Savor every story.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, I've *started*. It's just that after seeing the wear on the "gold<BR>
leaf" on the spines from when I used to carry them around to read, I<BR>
quit doing that, and only drag them out when I feel like devoting some<BR>
time to them (the lack of any division other than night endings makes<BR>
it hard to pick good stopping points). <BR>
<BR>
I'm somewhere in the third volume...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:15:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Oops! Mark Urbin beat me to the post!<BR>
><BR>
> Yoyodyne was (as he said) often on Star Trek. As one of the main<BR>
> contractors used in the construction of the Enterprise-D it appeared<BR>
> in almost every episode (on a plaque at the back of the bridge).<BR>
> : - )<BR>
<BR>
I don't suppose anybody has a *readable* GIF/JPEG/PNG/TIFF/PDF of that<BR>
plaque? <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:20:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 21:22 -0500 9/13/00, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
>>Dear Folks -<BR>
>><BR>
>>So, I take it that you are going to follow the tradition introduced in the<BR>
>>"Family d'Alembert" series and have Strephon abdicate in favour of Ciencia,<BR>
>>maybe on her 32nd birthday in 1121?? He'll be 71...  ;-) ;-)<BR>
><BR>
> y'see -- this is how rumors get started (smileys or no smileys). Why does a<BR>
> question about birthdays mean that I am going to have Strephon abdicate?<BR>
<BR>
I have a *strong* suspicion as to what you have in mind. But I'll keep<BR>
my mouth shut. If I'm right, I'll enjoy the result. If I'm wrong. No biggie.<BR>
<BR>
That reminds me. I need to find time to work on my calendar conversion<BR>
stuff.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 15:24:59 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 13 Sep 2000, at 17:55, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> There used to be an Army manual about "Esperanto: The Agressor<BR>
>> Language". Not what you'd think from the title. It wasn't (as many<BR>
>> people had assumed) about Esperanto trying to "corrupt" people. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> It was about using Esperanto as a language for the aggressor force in<BR>
>> excercises. I forget the name of the country (Oceania?), but among the<BR>
>> other info for people to memorize for use if they were captured was the<BR>
>> name of their leader "Emil Granfratro" ("granfratro" is Esperanto for<BR>
>> "Big Brother")<BR>
><BR>
> The name could have been Colchis, used in NZ as a fictitious pacfic<BR>
> island, and IIRC it was a 'standard' for ANZUS when we were still in<BR>
> it. Another enemy was the 'Missourans' who were thinly disguised<BR>
> Indonesians with a streamlined TO and more consistently Russian gear.<BR>
<BR>
Suddenly I have this image of someone starting a company that produces<BR>
unit patches and "background breifing" booklets for the use of various<BR>
countries' OPFOR units. With substantial secondary sales to SF fans and<BR>
gamers.<BR>
 <BR>
Hell, it might actually be *workable*!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:56:57 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
Actually, does anyone know how much it costs for a litre of Liquid<BR>
Hydrogen today?<BR>
<BR>
Pardon the use of metric, it's an Australian thing. :)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]<BR>
> Sent: Friday, 15 September 2000 8:57<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > Does anyone know the process for making Liquid Hydrogen?<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> Pressure and refridgeration.  Like liquid nitrogen only colder.<BR>
> <BR>
> Tod <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:09:19 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> No. Check the mass requirements - if it was stored as water, then the mass<BR>
> requirements for fuel tankage would be much higher.<BR>
><BR>
> The whole 'store as metallic hydrides' thing makes rifts easier to cross<BR>
> though. But the way to solve that is to make the misjump chance when<BR>
jumping<BR>
> from an empty hex something like 1 in 36, with 1/3 of them being fatal<BR>
(same<BR>
> lurk you use to cripple the commercial use of drop tanks).<BR>
><BR>
> Ian Whitchurch<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
What's the logic of this?  Hydrogen is hydrogen regardless of source.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:06:41 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller websites, please note:<BR>
<BR>
There are now 108 Traveller-devoted websites listed on the Netscape<BR>
directory / Open Directory project. If you have or know of a website devoted<BR>
to Traveller, any flavor, that is not listed here, please help out by<BR>
submitting the URL. At the site listed below, just click the Add URL link at<BR>
the top of the page and type the minimal info requested. I know there are at<BR>
least 200 sites out there (in fact, there are over 150 on the webring), so<BR>
lets get them listed for the enjoyment of all.  Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Systems/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:14:26 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
I must admit, I am always torn between the harsh taste of blood heated just<BR>
carved meat vs. the sharp taste of lightly seared week old decaying flesh.<BR>
They are both so enjoyable in their own way.<BR>
Ahhh, the joy of beef....<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
- -v--v-<BR>
- -^--^-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:12:16 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Leonard wrote:<BR>
>> Oh yeah, birth weight 3345g = 3.345 kg = 7 lb 6 oz, in case you were<BR>
>> interested<BR>
><BR>
>Congrats. BTW, I'm surprised how close the metric comes to the<BR>
>"English". By any chance did you start with the "english" and convert<BR>
>to metric?<BR>
<BR>
Er no, the nurse notes the official weight in metric, and then presses the<BR>
"Metric/Imperial" button on the electronic scales, magically converting the<BR>
numbers to imperial. Pretty high-tech, huh? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
To address this thread, I still think of people's heights and weights in<BR>
imperial, mainly because that's what I've always used in comparison  - 6"3"<BR>
means more to me than whatever the metric is (180cm??)! I can visualise 6" but<BR>
not 180cm, and I can understand that 7lb is an average-sized baby while 9lb+ is<BR>
big. And 13 lb (the current record for a natural delivery in Canberra) is a<BR>
whopper.<BR>
<BR>
Imperial measurements generally seem more humano-centric, probably because<BR>
that's what a lot were based on. The numbers turn out to be small enough to fit<BR>
in your brain without scaring you off. I can "see" 7lb, but visualising 3000g is<BR>
much harder - no comparisions (well, maybe three bags of sugar? ;-).<BR>
<BR>
Even so, while at uni in Bathurst I converted my brain over to metric for travel<BR>
distances. Mainly since Bathurst to the centre of Sydney is 200 km (130 mi),<BR>
Bathurst to the top of Canberra is 280 km, and I could travel both distances in<BR>
3 hours on a good day (thus proving that driving through the city is equivalent<BR>
to driving an extra 80 km in the country - good luck all those people who are<BR>
over for "The Games"...).<BR>
<BR>
I've found that comparisons are essential in order for my brain to be able to<BR>
"hold in" that sort of data. ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:27:30 -0400<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: PG-13 place names<BR>
<BR>
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but in Pennsylvania<BR>
(in Amish country, I believe) there lies the small town of<BR>
Intercourse.<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3050<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3051</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/14/00 5:43:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 14 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3051<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
re: Penguins?<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
Re: The Kinunir<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Gurps Ogre<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
RE: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:30:05 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 4:14 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: High Tech Vegetarians<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I must admit, I am always torn between the harsh taste of blood heated<BR>
just<BR>
> carved meat vs. the sharp taste of lightly seared week old decaying flesh.<BR>
> They are both so enjoyable in their own way.<BR>
> Ahhh, the joy of beef....<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
It's what's for dinner.<BR>
<BR>
Another thought occurs.  I remember reading that differences in diet between<BR>
the Romans, who ate more grains and the Germanic tribe, meat eaters, was a<BR>
major factor in the difference in stature between the two groups.  Do we<BR>
expect our high tech vegetarians to be smaller (more efficient?) humans?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:37:18 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Eris Reddoch writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > Ob-Trav...Local vermin finds its way into the PCs ship while planetside<BR>
> > > and cause a malfunction...a couple of minutes out of orbit. It's a<BR>
> > > wilderness planet...and you're still in the gravity well...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > That's why every Free Trader worth it's salt has a couple of ship's cats<BR>
> > aboard!<BR>
> <BR>
> Ah yes.  Who needs planetary vermin when you can bring your own with you ;)<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  Express that sentiment in front of the wrong starship owner, and<BR>
you could have some Tuf Voyaging ahead.... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  Someday, I'll have to design _Ark_ (Tuf's, not Noah's) using<BR>
FF&S2.  Since the Akins spreadsheet is apparently unable to handle<BR>
starships that are 30 km long, I'll have to do it semi-manually.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:36:20 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
<BR>
> Imperial measurements generally seem more humano-centric, probably because<BR>
> that's what a lot were based on. The numbers turn out to be small enough<BR>
to fit<BR>
> in your brain without scaring you off. I can "see" 7lb, but visualising<BR>
3000g is<BR>
> much harder - no comparisions (well, maybe three bags of sugar? ;-).<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Temp is a good example of this.  Farenheit is a more human scale. 0 is cold<BR>
and 100 is hot.  Celcius? 21 is nice 37 hot, and 0 is cold but not really<BR>
cold.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:47:39 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> > I have a feeling that you are one of those people who will have the<BR>
> > arcane, obscure knowledge that we'll need some day.<BR>
> <BR>
> You mean like how to extract saltpeter from manure? Or how to produce<BR>
> sulfuric acid and nitric acid?<BR>
> <BR>
> Alas, *sulfur* is gonna be a *bitch* to obtain if we ever get to that<BR>
> point. :-(<BR>
<BR>
Hmm.  Good point.  How 'bout going straight to nitrocellulose?<BR>
<BR>
Or, to quote from an episode of The Tick:<BR>
<BR>
"Boom baby boom!  I'm the Evil Midnight Bomber, what bombs at midnight!"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:26:35 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
At 16:33 -0400 13/9/00,  Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net> wrote:<BR>
>Being relatively new to the list I must ask what is the big deal about<BR>
>penguins?<BR>
><BR>
>Why would penguins (or Angels for that matter) want to dnace on the heads<BR>
>of pins?<BR>
<BR>
Look at http://www.bits.org.uk/ and select Products.. then "At Close <BR>
Quarters"/ ACQ.<BR>
<BR>
Then buy a copy from Warehouse 23 ($8) and find out why Penguins are <BR>
the de rigeur Traveller combat weapon these days.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS, CORE and their respective logos are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:53:46 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
> I don't suppose anybody has a *readable* GIF/JPEG/PNG/TIFF/PDF of that<BR>
> plaque?<BR>
<BR>
No, but from the encyclopedia, the wording runs:<BR>
<BR>
U.S.S. ENTERPRISE<BR>
GALAXY CLASS - STARFLEET REGISTRY NCC-1701-D<BR>
UTOPIA PLANETIA FLEET YARDS, MARS<BR>
FIFTH STARSHIP TO BEAR THE NAME - LAUNCHED STARDATE 40759.5<BR>
UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS<BR>
<BR>
[Then four columns underneath, for Starfleet Command, Engineering Group,<BR>
Warp Technologies Development Group, Advanced Technologies Unit and Yard<BR>
Engineers, listing people from the show's production crew.]<BR>
<BR>
Actually, Yoyodyne aren't mentioned anywhere on that plaque. However, they<BR>
ARE mentioned on the dedication plaques for the USS Sutherland (the ship<BR>
Data commands in Redemption, Part II) and the USS Brattain (from Night<BR>
Terrors). These ships were constructed at the San Francisco Fleet Yards and<BR>
40 Eridani A Fleet Yards respectively, rather than Utopia Planetia.<BR>
<BR>
(It does say that a 'simpler version of this plaque' was used for seasons 1<BR>
through 3, so perhaps a Yoyodyne reference was present on that. <shrug>)<BR>
<BR>
Wow, I feel like a real geek now.<BR>
<BR>
(I'm not really much of a Trekkie - honest. I just have the encyclopedia<BR>
lying around on my bookshelf. (Next to the SFB rules).<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:57:01 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
> Then buy a copy from Warehouse 23 ($8) and find out why Penguins are<BR>
> the de rigeur Traveller combat weapon these days.<BR>
<BR>
I thought we conclusively showed that LAAW rockets were the de rigeur<BR>
Traveller weapon these days?<BR>
<BR>
Blow up not only your team-mate, but both of the people trying to shoot him<BR>
too AND set fire to your own legs into the bargain!<BR>
<BR>
Mmm....backblast.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 01:55:41 +0200<BR>
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk><BR>
Subject: Re: The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry<BR>
>At 12:52 AM 9/11/2000 +0200, Hans wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>_The Kinunir_ was the first adventure written for Traveller, long before the<BR>
>>Traveller Universe firmed up. It contains a number of, let us say, <BR>
>>questionable features<BR>
><BR>
>Like only 1/3 of the Marines being equipped with battledress?<BR>
 <BR>
Fair enough if _The Kinunir_ was the only source, Doug[*], but I believe I<BR>
mentioned some other stuff too back when we discussed it. Like how Imperial<BR>
Marine regiments in FFW were no tougher than any other TL 15 regiments (and<BR>
less tough than TL 15 armored regiments), and only 25% of them were elite<BR>
(Well, I say 'only'; it's still better than the 10% of other troops that are<BR>
elite). So either the marines in those regiments are not all dressed in BD,<BR>
or _all_ TL 15 regiments are routinely equipped with BDs. I know which one<BR>
I consider the most likely.<BR>
<BR>
Then there is the fact that the character generation system is quite likely to<BR>
produce ex-marines who do not have BD skill. Call me crazy, but I still think<BR>
that that is a pretty good evidence that not all marines routinely wear battle<BR>
dress.<BR>
<BR>
[*] Or if it was inherently unlikely that only 1/3rd of them should be so<BR>
    equipped, which is not, IMO, the case. Certainly I find it much easier to<BR>
    believe that not all marines routinely wear BD than that something as<BR>
    powerful as an Imperial Warrant can be used by anyone who happens to get<BR>
    his mitts on one.<BR>
<BR>
I never said something should be ignored JUST because it was in _The Kinunir_.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hans <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:16:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Eris Reddoch writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> > Ob-Trav...Local vermin finds its way into the PCs ship while planetside<BR>
>> > and cause a malfunction...a couple of minutes out of orbit. It's a<BR>
>> > wilderness planet...and you're still in the gravity well...<BR>
>> <BR>
>> That's why every Free Trader worth it's salt has a couple of ship's cats<BR>
>> aboard! <BR>
><BR>
> Ah yes.  Who needs planetary vermin when you can bring your own with you ;)<BR>
><BR>
> Fortunately for traveller merchants, large portions of a traveller starship<BR>
> are horribly lethal to normal life-forms, which keeps the vermin count down.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, it also means that the *non* "normal" vermin can be<BR>
a *real* problem.<BR>
<BR>
Real world example. "Swimming pool" type reactors have to have the<BR>
water treated to prevent the bacteria growing in them them from<BR>
clogging things. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:20:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> One word:  Jerky.<BR>
>> And at the price they sell the chemical-laden, overprocessed stuff<BR>
>> they jokingly call 'jerky' in the stores, he could probably make a fair<BR>
>> penny selling the extra, too.<BR>
><BR>
> Doesn't Jerly require plety of heat to be produced, you know leaving strips<BR>
> of meat in the sun?<BR>
<BR>
Nope. A food dehyrdator works just fine. So does an oven if you are in<BR>
a hurry. The idea is to *dry* the meat. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:23:23 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> Why not store hydrogen by compressing it into hydride?  Sure it's bulky,<BR>
>> but the gas is released slowly so there's no worry about nasty H2<BR>
>> explosions. Plus you get a compression factor of about 1000 (It's not <BR>
> really<BR>
>> compression, as the hydrogen forms an 'alloy' ).  Hydrides are much more<BR>
>> efficient ways to store gaseous hydrogen.<BR>
><BR>
> Probably because traveller jump drives apparently need their hydrogen very<BR>
> quickly, much faster than a hydride can release it.  Otherwise, given <BR>
> abundant fusion energy, there's all sorts of chemical storage methods<BR>
> which are more space-efficient than liquid hydrogen.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but they tend to not be *mass* efficient. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:26:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Probably because traveller jump drives apparently need their hydrogen very<BR>
>> quickly, much faster than a hydride can release it.  Otherwise, given<BR>
>> abundant fusion energy, there's all sorts of chemical storage methods<BR>
>> which are more space-efficient than liquid hydrogen.<BR>
><BR>
> Is this canon?  Isn't fuel usually stored as water anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Nope. Even the early rules (CT) are pretty clear about fuel being LH2.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:40:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Does anyone know the process for making Liquid Hydrogen?<BR>
<BR>
More or less.<BR>
<BR>
You cool it, first by compression, cooling of the compressed gas, and<BR>
allowing the compressed gas to expand (which cools it further).<BR>
<BR>
Enough stages of this will get the gas pretty cold. I *think* you can<BR>
get LH2 this way, but if not, you start using other tricks. <BR>
<BR>
Check any good book on cryogenics.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:45:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> THanks for that, cant spend time surfing the net at work!<BR>
><BR>
> Could I trouble the list for another answer?<BR>
><BR>
> How much energy is required to Liquify H2, just a qualitative figure<BR>
> will do. <BR>
<BR>
Depends on *how* you do it. In space, it doesn't take *any* power. Just<BR>
shield it from the local star(s), and the planet if you are near one.<BR>
And allow it to radiate heat at empty space. You can reach temps as low<BR>
as 4 K (-269 C) this way.<BR>
<BR>
Also, on the ground, you have to *maintain* the LH2 at low temps. Which<BR>
requires a continuing energy cost, since the insulation won't be perfect.<BR>
<BR>
Oh yeah, there are two types of hydrogen molecules. Ortho and para. One<BR>
has the atoms having the same spin, the other has them with opposite<BR>
spins. The opposite spin state is lower energy. And the high energy<BR>
version spontaneous converts to the low enery version, releasing enough<BR>
energy that it can boil the LH2. <BR>
<BR>
So, during liquefaction, you have to run the stuff over a catalyst to<BR>
convert all of it to the low energy version, or else your LH2 boils off<BR>
in hours. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:02:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, does anyone know how much it costs for a litre of Liquid<BR>
> Hydrogen today?<BR>
<BR>
Call around to welding supply companies, and also check in the Yellow<BR>
pages under "Cryogenics" (I see two companies listed there in my phone<BR>
book, but it's too late to call them.)<BR>
<BR>
> Pardon the use of metric, it's an Australian thing. :)<BR>
<BR>
I think that it's actually *sold* by the liter, even here.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:41:34 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Gurps Ogre<BR>
<BR>
A quick heads-up for people in and around Brisbane:  that's you, Roc!<BR>
<BR>
I was in Brissie yesterday.   A comics store - Daily Planet - on Elizabeth<BR>
St had the second volume of the CT reprint series!  Sadly, it cost $75.95! <BR>
I didn't buy it - I went around to Napoleon's (George St) and bought Gurps:<BR>
Ogre for $44 instead - so it may still be there.<BR>
<BR>
For everyone else:<BR>
<BR>
Gurps: Ogre is kind of neat.  The toys are pretty scary, even though the<BR>
heroic Imperial Marines could still sort them out.  Lots of inspirational<BR>
and stealable stuff.<BR>
<BR>
The really interesting thing is the combat system it contains.  It's<BR>
basically a bit more complex than Ogre/Gev, and works off a subset of the<BR>
Gurps: Vehicles stats.  (Are you beginning to see where this is heading?) <BR>
It doesn't use a map as such, though it doesnt look like it would be<BR>
particularly difficult to put one in.<BR>
<BR>
Or, to make it explicit, Gurps: Ogre contains a rather simple set of combat<BR>
rules that could be used with GT vehicles, potentially using a hexmap,<BR>
(which is good for PBEMing, if anyone is so inclined).<BR>
<BR>
We don't really have a hexmap based Traveller tactical system - the nearest<BR>
thing was the MT Mass Combat system, which was kind of half-hearted, and<BR>
insisted on measuring artillery areas of effect in rectangles, and other<BR>
awkward things.<BR>
<BR>
Striker (I and II) is really cool, but takes a lot of room and wouldn't<BR>
PBEM well (IMHO).  Invasion: Earth is very high level.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, preserving a "Traveller" feel with the system in Gurps:<BR>
Ogre might require a bit of tweaking, as it is, after all, designed to<BR>
possess the Ogre/Gev feel instead.<BR>
<BR>
And of course, if we were really silly, we could tweak it so it uses<BR>
Striker, or FF&S stats, instead of the Gurps: Vehicle ones....  That would<BR>
give us all a chance to blow up some Rapiras (for example), and see how<BR>
good they really are or aren't.<BR>
<BR>
(Image:  witches gather around cauldron inside my head and start quoting<BR>
the Scottish play.  Something is bubbling away in my head - something<BR>
evil.)<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:15:02 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
> > Probably because traveller jump drives apparently need their hydrogen<BR>
> > very quickly, much faster than a hydride can release it.  Otherwise,<BR>
> > given  abundant fusion energy, there's all sorts of chemical storage<BR>
> > methods which are more space-efficient than liquid hydrogen.<BR>
> <BR>
> Yeah, but they tend to not be *mass* efficient. <BR>
<BR>
For low-acceleration non-combat ships, that's really not a big problem.  Even<BR>
after you add extra drives to handle the increased mass, you're still saving<BR>
noticeable volume, which can be used for cargo.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:16:04 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm... having lived with Celcius all my life, I understand (or have an<BR>
instinctive feel for) it much better than farenheit. In our milder<BR>
(Tasmanian) climate we accept that 0 is very cold. 21 Is a nice<BR>
temperature, and 37 means that we are all dying of heat prostration (not<BR>
really, but it is bl**dy hot!). Faranheit means nothing to me (a bunch<BR>
of funny numbers, although I do remeber that 32 is the freezing point of<BR>
water.) When people talk about the temeprature being 42 degrees F, I<BR>
automatically think that it is hot, before having to actually 'think'<BR>
about what that means in Celcius.<BR>
<BR>
The same happens with lbs and kg. 8lbs means nothing to me, 3kg does.<BR>
Same with volume measurements. I guess that it comes down to what you<BR>
grow up with. 3000g is 3kg, not a real scary number at all. <BR>
<BR>
My son (born last novemeber) was 8lb 9ounces. <BR>
It meant more to me when I was told he was 4.07 Kg, 51cm. <BR>
<BR>
Thats one of the things that makes me hesitant to use GURPS. I have had<BR>
a look at the system, and it looks great, but I would get sick of<BR>
recalculating all the measurements in my head while using it. It does<BR>
come with a conversion table, but, well.....<BR>
I was considering rewriting all the measurements in metric. The real<BR>
trouble, however, is trying to get my players to play 'Yet another<BR>
traveller system'.   <BR>
<BR>
Oddly enough I do have feel for feet and yards, but not miles. Go<BR>
figure!<BR>
<BR>
obtrav: Having a local NPC getting angry when he realises the amount of<BR>
your cargo he bought was not what he was expecting. <BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]<BR>
> Sent: Friday, 15 September 2000 9:36<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > Imperial measurements generally seem more humano-centric, <BR>
> probably because<BR>
> > that's what a lot were based on. The numbers turn out to be <BR>
> small enough<BR>
> to fit<BR>
> > in your brain without scaring you off. I can "see" 7lb, but <BR>
> visualising<BR>
> 3000g is<BR>
> > much harder - no comparisions (well, maybe three bags of sugar? ;-).<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> Temp is a good example of this.  Farenheit is a more human <BR>
> scale. 0 is cold<BR>
> and 100 is hot.  Celcius? 21 is nice 37 hot, and 0 is cold <BR>
> but not really<BR>
> cold.<BR>
> <BR>
> Tod<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:54:42 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
At 19:20 -0400 13/9/00, Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
>Doug Berry, author of "At Close Quarters", and "GT:Ground Forces" tossed<BR>
>off a one-liner in a draft of ACQ about using a Penguin as a projectile<BR>
>weapon.<BR>
<BR>
And BITS decided to keep it in for fun.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, your description of what Doug did was unfortunate in British English!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>It has, as they say, mutated from there to become somewhat of a<BR>
>mascot/injoke on the TML.<BR>
<BR>
And on JTAS.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:59:33 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
At 19:20 -0400 13/9/00, "Ben Aaronovitch" <BR>
<bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>Nobody is really panicking in the UK, at the moment it is mostly media hype,<BR>
>because they know that before the situation can become life threatening one of<BR>
>two things will happen. The government will either back down or the government<BR>
>will use the instruments of the state to ensure that fuel supplies <BR>
>are restored.<BR>
<BR>
Ben, I'm not panicking.<BR>
<BR>
However, this actually shows the London/Home Counties focus of the <BR>
media. Wales and the North West had effectively run out of fuel by <BR>
Sunday night / Monday morning. Hence we are two or three days ahead <BR>
of the rest of the country. On top of that, the impact is probably <BR>
lessened within the M25 (London's orbital carpark, sorry, motorway <BR>
for non-UK readers) due to the significant use of public transport...<BR>
<BR>
But overall I agree with you.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 01:35:47 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
>On top of that, the impact is probably<BR>
> lessened within the M25 (London's orbital carpark, sorry, motorway<BR>
> for non-UK readers) due to the significant use of public transport...<BR>
<BR>
I've always liked the fact that the M25's name is the London Orbital. It<BR>
would make a good name for a starport.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:42:59 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >On top of that, the impact is probably<BR>
> > lessened within the M25 (London's orbital carpark, sorry, motorway<BR>
> > for non-UK readers) due to the significant use of public transport...<BR>
> <BR>
> I've always liked the fact that the M25's name is the London Orbital. It<BR>
> would make a good name for a starport.<BR>
<BR>
I agree that the London Orbital is a good name for a starport.  Sadly,<BR>
given London's high latitude, it's a lousy place for anything other than<BR>
a military starport (since military craft in Traveller have enough<BR>
acceleration to compensate for the relatively low boost provided by<BR>
Terra's rotation at high latitudes).<BR>
<BR>
Orbital mechanics put a whole new spin on Jimmy Buffet's "Changes in<BR>
Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:07:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Re Hydride<BR>
>>from Tod:<BR>
>> The downside is the weight.  But it's not as bad as one might think, and<BR>
> the<BR>
>> safety factor alone is propbably worth the cost.  texaco seems to think<BR>
> so,<BR>
>> since they plunked down a $68 million investment in Energy Conversion<BR>
>> Devices, who developed the technology (and also the LiMH battery).<BR>
><BR>
> It's not even a downside! The denser fuel is better.<BR>
><BR>
> For any fuel, the energy you can extract is proportional to the mass, not<BR>
> the volume. So packing fuel into a smaller space still allows you the same<BR>
> energy per kilo, just from less volume. This means smaller fuel tanks.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but if your smaller tank weighs too much, the energy used to<BR>
*move* it negates the savings from the smaller volume. <BR>
<BR>
> I designed a Grav Sled earlier this evening, for an ice world very poor in<BR>
> petrochemicals but with abundant water, so its MHD turbine was powered by<BR>
> hydrogen rather than jet fuel. Since LH2 is about fourteen times bigger<BR>
> than HCDs for the same mass, the fuel tanks went from about 5% to 25% of<BR>
> the vehicle's volume - which meant a fair bit more armour to enclose it,<BR>
> and an increase in size from 5 d-tons to 6.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, now consider what happens if the smaller tank weighs as much or<BR>
more than that extra armor.<BR>
<BR>
> Even more important is fuel for jumpships, since everything to do with jump<BR>
> is determined by volume. A J4 1,000 d-ton ship would normally need 400 tons<BR>
> of jump fuel, but making the fuel three times as dense gives you another<BR>
> 260 tons to fill with useful things like drives, weapons, cargo space or<BR>
> whatever.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but mass still counts for stuff like manuever drives. <BR>
<BR>
> Presumeably jump drives will require specifically *liquid* hydrogen,<BR>
> otherwise this would pretty much invalidate most canon designs (again)....<BR>
> #:-)<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind that metal hydride storage can't absorb *or* release<BR>
hydrogen at high rates. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:13:10 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Yeah, but the problem is that it's like trying to prohibit alcohol.<BR>
>> It's just too easy to flout the regulations.<BR>
><BR>
> In cases where it's easy to break the law, governments have a habit of<BR>
> turning to draconian punishment of the few that do get caught, in order to<BR>
> deter people. And there are ways to detect fuel cracking; unreliable or<BR>
> not, they'll catch at least the odd person.<BR>
<BR>
And historically, this backfires. It negates respect for the law and<BR>
the government. And if the punishment is draconian enough it tends to<BR>
cause unrest, which can lead to revolution.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3051<BR>
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Date:	9/14/00 7:02:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 14 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3052<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Accents<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: More Human than Human<BR>
Achtung! Refuelling Prohibited (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Language (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names (rapidly going OT)<BR>
Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Yoyodyne<BR>
RE: Diplomacy<BR>
RE: Annic Nova<BR>
Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:36:22 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
Ok, I was naughty, and did a little web surfing at work.<BR>
<BR>
From http://www.msnbc.com/news/459341.asp?cp1=1#BODY<BR>
<BR>
"STILL EXPENSIVE<BR>
Hydrogen is one of the worlds most plentiful elements  most commonly<BR>
found bond with oxygen in the form of water. Because of that, its<BR>
supplies are virtually limitless. But even hydrogens biggest supporters<BR>
admit hydrogen energy has its limits  beginning with price.   <BR>
Hydrogen is expensive at roughly $6.90 a gallon. Thats expected to come<BR>
down, but only if energy companies build new hydrogen processing plants,<BR>
develop new ways to transport and store the unstable chemical and create<BR>
a network of hydrogen service stations.<BR>
All that could take decades and billions of dollars.<BR>
As an energy source, it has long been viewed as an exotic fuel reserved<BR>
for space travel.<BR>
Hydrogens only exhaust is water vapor. That means no more clouds of<BR>
carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and other pollutants that are the<BR>
byproducts of gasoline and are believed to contribute to global<BR>
warming."<BR>
<BR>
I dunno how many litres there are in a gallon... I'll convert that<BR>
later.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:50:59 -0500<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Accents<BR>
<BR>
>What accents do you use in your games?<BR>
<BR>
Everyone speaks American midwestern english. Except for Imperial Naval<BR>
officers and Imperial nobles, who speak American midwestern english thinly<BR>
disguised as English english.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:00:17 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
> > For any fuel, the energy you can extract is proportional to the mass,<BR>
not<BR>
> > the volume. So packing fuel into a smaller space still allows you the<BR>
same<BR>
> > energy per kilo, just from less volume. This means smaller fuel tanks.<BR>
><BR>
> Yeah, but if your smaller tank weighs too much, the energy used to<BR>
> *move* it negates the savings from the smaller volume.<BR>
<BR>
If the mass of fuel is the same, just smaller, then the tank walls will<BR>
weigh less (Unless it needs to be thicker for insulation or whatnot, but<BR>
since even the larger tank must be insulated to hold LH2, I think it's a<BR>
fairly safe bet that it shouldn't need to get any thicker) and the fuel<BR>
will weigh the same, surely?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Yeah, now consider what happens if the smaller tank weighs as much or<BR>
> more than that extra armor.<BR>
<BR>
That would be a net loss, even if you got an increase in weight by moving<BR>
to a smaller tank (which doesn't make a lot of sense to me anyway).<BR>
<BR>
However, under FFS (at least for this design) that's not the case.<BR>
<BR>
> Yeah, but mass still counts for stuff like manuever drives.<BR>
<BR>
But the mass of fuel stays the same. I think it's a fairly safe bet to<BR>
assume the tankage gets lighter as it gets smaller. So the only extra mass<BR>
you're having to haul around is paymass. Cargo, guns, or whatever.Or just<BR>
make the ship smaller, need less jump drive, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Not wishing to be argumentative, but I really don't follow your reasoning.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:59:02 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
on 9/14/00 6:07 PM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Keep in mind that metal hydride storage can't absorb *or* release<BR>
> hydrogen at high rates.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, there are techniques that allow you to charge hydride storage to<BR>
80% capacity in 5 minutes. Not too bad.  The slower discharge rate is seen<BR>
as a positive feature.  If your powering your vehicle on H2, you get enough<BR>
gas for operation.  However, if you're in a crash, no matter how badly the<BR>
fuel tank is damaged, fuel will only leak at a controlled rate.<BR>
<BR>
Tod  <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 17:26:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
>> <BR>
>>> I have a feeling that you are one of those people who will have the<BR>
>>> arcane, obscure knowledge that we'll need some day.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> You mean like how to extract saltpeter from manure? Or how to produce<BR>
>> sulfuric acid and nitric acid?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Alas, *sulfur* is gonna be a *bitch* to obtain if we ever get to that<BR>
>> point. :-(<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm.  Good point.  How 'bout going straight to nitrocellulose?<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, you need sulfuric acid to make the nitric acid. You need sulfur<BR>
to make the sulfuric acid. You also need a small amount of sulfuric<BR>
acid to make the reaction go when nitrating cellulose.<BR>
<BR>
And guncotton is *not* that stable. As noted in Connections, the<BR>
British learned that the hard way.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:02:39 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Just how non-canon is THIS?<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
>>>> 1)  Shields, of the hit point type (no DR, just HP, like Star Wars)<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>Real hard to justify.<BR>
>><BR>
>>     How so, if White Globes are canon already?<BR>
><BR>
>White globes (mostly) work like Langston fields. Which act *very*<BR>
>differently than any "classical" SF shield or force field.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Which, IIRC, is basicly the Black Globe.<BR>
<BR>
>And having shields that have "hit points" is really difficult to<BR>
>justify. Ones where the shield is generated by multiple generators,<BR>
>which can be burned out isn't quite the same thing. For one thing, that<BR>
>tends to give "gaps" in the shields, rather than weaker shields.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    One way to look at it is in HG terms, the White Globed ship can take X<BR>
amount of EP before being destroyed, & each weapon does Y amount of EP to<BR>
the White Globed ship, so when Y EP equals X EP the ship explodes.  In other<BR>
words when the X amount of EP becomes the "hit points" of the shield & the Y<BR>
amount of EP becomes "damage".  So I can see how you would do it.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:03:19 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
on 9/14/00 6:36 PM, Paul Harris at paul.harris@dytech.com.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ok, I was naughty, and did a little web surfing at work.<BR>
> <BR>
> From http://www.msnbc.com/news/459341.asp?cp1=1#BODY<BR>
> <BR>
> "STILL EXPENSIVE<BR>
> Hydrogen is one of the worlds most plentiful elements  most commonly<BR>
> found bond with oxygen in the form of water. Because of that, its<BR>
> supplies are virtually limitless. But even hydrogens biggest supporters<BR>
> admit hydrogen energy has its limits  beginning with price.<BR>
> Hydrogen is expensive at roughly $6.90 a gallon. Thats expected to come<BR>
> down, but only if energy companies build new hydrogen processing plants,<BR>
> develop new ways to transport and store the unstable chemical and create<BR>
> a network of hydrogen service stations.<BR>
> All that could take decades and billions of dollars.<BR>
> As an energy source, it has long been viewed as an exotic fuel reserved<BR>
> for space travel.<BR>
> Hydrogens only exhaust is water vapor. That means no more clouds of<BR>
> carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and other pollutants that are the<BR>
> byproducts of gasoline and are believed to contribute to global<BR>
> warming."<BR>
> <BR>
> I dunno how many litres there are in a gallon... I'll convert that<BR>
> later.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
looking at a gallon milk jug, I see that it's 3.78 liters.  Converting<BR>
hydrogen to hydrides makes storage and transport much easier, but it's<BR>
certainly not the ideal to convert to, based on the current infrastructure.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:12:44 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Hmm.  Good point.  How 'bout going straight to nitrocellulose?<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry, you need sulfuric acid to make the nitric acid. You need sulfur<BR>
> to make the sulfuric acid. You also need a small amount of sulfuric<BR>
> acid to make the reaction go when nitrating cellulose.<BR>
> <BR>
> And guncotton is *not* that stable. As noted in Connections, the<BR>
> British learned that the hard way.<BR>
<BR>
True, but (IIRC) auto batteries have sulfuric acid.  Once the gasoline<BR>
runs out, there will be a fair number of auto batteries ripe for<BR>
harvesting.  Not necessarily enough for black powder, but perhaps enough<BR>
to make guncotton in useful quantities.  Of course, in your part of the<BR>
country, you might be able to launch an expedition to Yellowstone<BR>
National Park, from which you could obtain sulfur-bearing materials.<BR>
<BR>
Not a perfect solution, by any means.  (After all, a "perfect solution"<BR>
would be to prevent the breakdown of our industrial civilization, thus<BR>
making field expedients unnecessary.)  However, it may be a workable<BR>
one.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:27:22 -0500<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: More Human than Human<BR>
<BR>
Question to the List?<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone worked up stats for<BR>
New Race Draka?<BR>
<BR>
Or something thereabouts?<BR>
<BR>
thanks<BR>
pat<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 1:28 PM<BR>
Subject: More Human than Human<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >.  Did it<BR>
> >have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
><BR>
> Wasn't that the motto of Nexus Corp. in the movie Bladerunner?<BR>
> Their Nexus 7 models would have given a New Race Draka a decent fight.<BR>
><BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- ---<BR>
> urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
> Exigis Domus Hillaria - http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- ---<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:20:05 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Achtung! Refuelling Prohibited (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Leonard wrote:<BR>
>> Sure, building a water cracker in your garage is no problem, but could you<BR>
>> really provide enough Jump-fuel for a Free-Trader?<BR>
><BR>
>The crew of the Free Trtader could do it.<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>But as long as water is available in reasonable amounts, extracting<BR>
>hydrogen from it is easy.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Now _this_ is the key question, really.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>> So, the *only* reason hydrogen can be more than a bit more expensive<BR>
>>> than usual is if the hydro percentage on planet is *zero*. That is,<BR>
>>> there's only enough water on world for "life support" uses.<BR>
>><BR>
>> The only reason other than greed on the part of the suppliers/regulators.<BR>
><BR>
>Sorry, but that's like trying to tax air. It's too easy to extract<BR>
>hydrogen on your own.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Think "The Martian Way", an old Asimov story. Spaceships refuel from the sea,<BR>
but then dump most of the mass out the back as reaction mass while still in<BR>
Earth's atmosphere. No problem, right? Until an ambitious politician wants to<BR>
tax them for using the water.<BR>
<BR>
>...the problem is that it's like trying to prohibit alcohol.<BR>
>It's just too easy to flout the regulations.<BR>
<BR>
Just install bigger and better SDBs, effectively blockading your fuel source.<BR>
Much harder to do and to justify if your system has a gas giant, but easy to do<BR>
if the only water around is on your mainworld.<BR>
<BR>
The real trick comes when you have to explain to the Marines that you are not<BR>
actually blockading trade by doing this...<BR>
<BR>
[BTW, "The Martian Way" is also good as a model if you want to allow reusable<BR>
drop tanks for j-fuel. The Martians' main employment consisted of scrounging the<BR>
cast-off fuel tanks thrown away once a ship had reached escape velocity from<BR>
Earth orbit. Another subtext: "The Beachcombers", one of my favourite 70's TV<BR>
shows. From Canada's west coast - just ask Alvin Plummer!]<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:39:30 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Language (was: Re: Re OT Date Systems)<BR>
<BR>
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> One of the best ones tound here is Paraparaumu, which is supposed to be said<BR>
> pretty much exactly how it is spelt (para-para-oo-moo. But for some reason<BR>
> generations of local people have been pronouncing it "para-param"<BR>
><BR>
> Not to be mistaken for Pa-pa-ooo-mow-mow, which is the sound of Somnambutol<BR>
> rounds from riot guns.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
"The offical riot-control device of the 1996 East Coast meltdown"??<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:33:15 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 2:03 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
on 9/14/00 6:36 PM, Paul Harris at paul.harris@dytech.com.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ok, I was naughty, and did a little web surfing at work.<BR>
><BR>
> From http://www.msnbc.com/news/459341.asp?cp1=1#BODY<BR>
><BR>
> "STILL EXPENSIVE<BR>
> Hydrogen is one of the worlds most plentiful elements  most commonly<BR>
> found bond with oxygen in the form of water. Because of that, its<BR>
> supplies are virtually limitless. But even hydrogens biggest supporters<BR>
> admit hydrogen energy has its limits  beginning with price.<BR>
> Hydrogen is expensive at roughly $6.90 a gallon. Thats expected to come<BR>
> down, but only if energy companies build new hydrogen processing plants,<BR>
> develop new ways to transport and store the unstable chemical and create<BR>
> a network of hydrogen service stations.<BR>
> All that could take decades and billions of dollars.<BR>
> As an energy source, it has long been viewed as an exotic fuel reserved<BR>
> for space travel.<BR>
> Hydrogens only exhaust is water vapor. That means no more clouds of<BR>
> carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and other pollutants that are the<BR>
> byproducts of gasoline and are believed to contribute to global<BR>
> warming."<BR>
><BR>
> I dunno how many litres there are in a gallon... I'll convert that<BR>
> later.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
looking at a gallon milk jug, I see that it's 3.78 liters.  Converting<BR>
hydrogen to hydrides makes storage and transport much easier, but it's<BR>
certainly not the ideal to convert to, based on the current infrastructure.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Well over here in the UK, a gallon is 4.5454545 etc Litres. the rhyme to<BR>
remember the conversion is "A litre of water is a pint and three-quarter"<BR>
(actually its 1.76 pints, but it's close enough)<BR>
<BR>
And petrol costs ~88p a litre, or 4.00 a gallon, which is ~$6.00 per UK<BR>
gallon, or ~$4.99 per US gallon... Hydrogen starts to look attractive over<BR>
here, as much of the duty on petrol is 'justified' as a green tax, to reduce<BR>
pollution by discouraging petrol consumption. Yeah, right!<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:34:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
> Priests never used to have spheres or domains.<BR>
<BR>
AD&D2 did. Check out PHB, pg. 240-241. Not like the domains currently (which<BR>
are more granted powers) but still.<BR>
<BR>
I just purchased the Traveller Classics Core rules and the D&D3 DMG. On<BR>
reading, the former seems to have much more help for the referee than the<BR>
latter. ... but maybe that's just me. I can do without a book of NPC<BR>
character classes.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:35:18 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Terry wrote:<BR>
<< The warrant is said to be ON<BR>
 Algine, in a WRECKED cruiser. Algine is not Shionthy, the Kinunir wasn't<BR>
 wrecked. >><BR>
<BR>
>>I think the Markhashi was the one wrecked on Algine.<BR>
><BR>
>Now I've always thought that there is a lot more to the story than has ever<BR>
>been told just so the GM could fill it in.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I hereby refer Terry to the discussion at Beowulf Down (below). Select Tavonni<BR>
Repair Bays => Canon Problem #3: The Kinunir Question. Just make sure you read<BR>
right through to the end for the surprise bit (courtesy Chris Seamans ;-).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and in passing, I'll also mention that I have now created the page for "<BR>
CANON PROBLEM 4: The Annic Nova Backstory". It's just not very pretty yet, as it<BR>
is the straight TML discussion posts (164k!) from the last time the TML<BR>
discussed the 'Nova, late 1999. I haven't yet added the current SJ Games JTAS<BR>
discussion points, nor formatted the thing as nicely as the Kinunir page, but<BR>
it's a start.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:33:49 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names (rapidly going OT)<BR>
<BR>
How about  Rooty Hill  (a suburb of Sydney, Australia).<BR>
<BR>
Hey!<BR>
<BR>
We've got a comedian who specialises in puns about place names.<BR>
He's called Austin Tayshus & had a #1 hit called "Australiana" a few years back.<BR>
I hear he's about to release another record.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone able to quote the lyrics to Australiana?<BR>
<BR>
Graeme<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:49:03 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 9/14/00 7:46:36 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Skaran@bigpond.com<BR>
> writes:<BR>
><BR>
> << What we do lack is self propelled artillery. >><BR>
><BR>
> what towed tubes and prime movers do you use?<BR>
<BR>
AFAIK... Hamel 105mm's and Blackhawks <grin><BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:43:07 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Tod lit the blue touch paper thus:<BR>
>Drop tanks!? fah.  We don't need no stibking drop tanks.  Not in MTU anyway.<BR>
>Have drop tanks been ackowledged by the list? I thought this was still a<BR>
>matter of some debate.<BR>
<BR>
<Frantically looking for a bucket of cold water><BR>
<BR>
Um, er, I think the TML came up with something akin to the "Sunbeard<BR>
Declaration" (which dealt with the "p" word) for drop tanks, didn't we?<BR>
<BR>
To the effect that, given these assumptions, this was the outcome? And given<BR>
other assumptions, this other thing was the outcome? And you choose which<BR>
version you adopt IYTU?? Please, quick someone, give out a web address reference<BR>
to hose down this annual event before it starts!<BR>
<BR>
"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb" (Adam West, Batman movie, c.1966).<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:48:56 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:46:57, "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >When I enter the freeway, two phrases go through my mind:  "engage the<BR>
> >overthruster" as I push on the overdrive; and "prepare for the jump to<BR>
> >hyperspace" as I merge from the ramp to the freeway.<BR>
><BR>
>Kirsten and I do the warp-speed count-up from Star Trek, The Motionless<BR>
>Picture.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Oddly enough, I found myself doing this during TITANIC.  You know the scene.<BR>
<BR>
"Warp One, Mr. Murdoch.  Let's stretch her legs."<BR>
"Aye, sir, Warp One."<BR>
[cut to engine room thrumming with power]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On another thread, Doug wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 > That, and Ciencia is totally hot.<BR>
<BR>
DUDE!  Quit scopin' the Grand Princess, you're gonna get us in trouble!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:51:03 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Diplomacy<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Terry Carlino" <BR>
> Don't forget in many cases Imperial Nobles in early Imperial times<BR>
> were planetary rulers who were given Imperial titles. Some are still<BR>
local<BR>
> nobles, Kings, Czars and such who are equivalent in rank to Barons, but<BR>
> still counted as members of the Imperial Nobility. As I was explaining to<BR>
a<BR>
> fellow gamer just today: The Nobles run the Imperium. They run the<BR>
> Megacorps. As long as the Imperium does well, the Megacorps do well. As<BR>
long<BR>
> as the Megacorps do well, the Nobility does well. As long as the Nobility<BR>
> does well no one has to die. :)<BR>
<BR>
This is as good a statement of the situation IMTU as any.<BR>
<BR>
The Nobility are the elites of the societies within the Imperium, whatever<BR>
the source of their power.  They are the senior bureaucrats and military<BR>
officers, the owners of corporations, the rulers of worlds, other major<BR>
landowners, the religious leaders...  If you are anyone who is anyone,<BR>
sooner or later you will be coopted by the system.  Of course, if you<BR>
breathe methane or chlorine and like it, you may not quite be as easily<BR>
assimilated as if you were human.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:51:40 -0500<BR>
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Annic Nova<BR>
<BR>
Consiter this intrest ;)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Antony Farrell<BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 3:20 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Annic Nova<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Just thought I'd mention that I have managed to put together a marginal TL12<BR>
version of the Annic Nova (Using FFS1) (I do mean marginal) If people are<BR>
interested I will post the details.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:50:00 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Re OT Date Systems<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Nick wrote:<BR>
>In cases where it's easy to break the law, governments have a habit of<BR>
>turning to draconian punishment of the few that do get caught, in order to<BR>
>deter people. And there are ways to detect fuel cracking; unreliable or<BR>
>not, they'll catch at least the odd person.<BR>
<BR>
Like that incident on Efate (see: Starship Operators Manual) where they found<BR>
out a guy who was stealing LH2 with a sophisticated fuel-line setup. They moved<BR>
the ship out to an uninhabited area and blew it up, thus "reclaiming" the stolen<BR>
fuel.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 18:56:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
Doug "Penguin Boy" Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> writes:<BR>
<BR>
>"Penguins, although very aerodynamic, tend to resist being thrown by<BR>
>flapping their little flippers wildly, and are thus treated as non<BR>
>aerodynamic for the purposes of these rules."<BR>
><BR>
>Once I stopped laughing, I took up the challenge, and ran the stats for<BR>
>some penguin species through a weapon design spreadsheet.  So there are two<BR>
>species of weapon-grade penguins in ACQ.<BR>
><BR>
>This has become a bit of an in joke on the TML over the last few years.  My<BR>
>one claim to fame.  At least until GT: Ground Forces comes out.<BR>
<BR>
Yup.  Then the TML will have *two* in jokes!! :^)<BR>
<BR>
BTW, Doug.  Are you coming back up for the ARPC Winter Full-Auto Fun Shoot<BR>
this year?  It's Saturday, Dec. 9th.  I *know* Jesse is coming.  I swear<BR>
I won't make you a Range Officer this time.  *Promise*!! :^)<BR>
<BR>
        - Mark C.<BR>
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy<BR>
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75<BR>
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR<BR>
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)<BR>
          Front Sight First Family member #1<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
 mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com<BR>
 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com<BR>
 Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3052<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3053</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/15/00 12:40:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 15 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3053<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Traveller-digest V1999 #3048<BR>
Old SNL Skit<BR>
HERITIC!<BR>
GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
Re: Gurps Ogre<BR>
Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
Striker computer game?<BR>
Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
Re: Drop Tanks (was: Re: Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Traveller websites, please note:<BR>
RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
AngloMetric Thumbnail Conversions<BR>
What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
Re: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
Re: California Dreaming<BR>
RE: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
[TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness refuelling. <BR>
RE: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:58:02 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Doug chimed in with:<BR>
>>>So, I take it that you are going to follow the tradition introduced in the<BR>
>>>"Family d'Alembert" series and have Strephon abdicate in favour of Ciencia,<BR>
>>>maybe on her 32nd birthday in 1121?? He'll be 71...  ;-) ;-)<BR>
>><BR>
>>y'see -- this is how rumors get started (smileys or no smileys). Why does a<BR>
>>question about birthdays mean that I am going to have Strephon abdicate?<BR>
><BR>
>Because we're a rabid bunch of fanboys (and girls) who delight in coming up<BR>
>with weird plot twists.<BR>
><BR>
>That, and Ciencia is totally hot.<BR>
<BR>
Add to those (plus my earlier reason!):<BR>
<BR>
1.   It is a logical, albiet obvious, progression.<BR>
2.   I want to see a retired Strephon touring those wild Imperial fringe areas<BR>
that were too, er, "interesting" for him to be able to see safely when he was<BR>
actually Emperor. Y'know, places like Tavonni in the Marches (the Baroness<BR>
already has the "Strephon Was Here" plaque ready to be mounted... :-).<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 21:53:47 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Never fear Leonard, just wait for Mt. Hood to go active and you'll be up to<BR>
proverbial/literal eyeballs with sulfur. You could always run down to the<BR>
St. Helen's area and scoop some. ;)<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 5:17 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > I have a feeling that you are one of those people who will have the<BR>
> > arcane, obscure knowledge that we'll need some day.<BR>
><BR>
> You mean like how to extract saltpeter from manure? Or how to produce<BR>
> sulfuric acid and nitric acid?<BR>
><BR>
> Alas, *sulfur* is gonna be a *bitch* to obtain if we ever get to that<BR>
> point. :-(<BR>
><BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:00:44 -0700<BR>
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org><BR>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3048<BR>
<BR>
Douglas also writes:<BR>
<BR>
>>y'see -- this is how rumors get started (smileys or no smileys). Why does a<BR>
>>question about birthdays mean that I am going to have Strephon abdicate?<BR>
><BR>
>Because we're a rabid bunch of fanboys (and girls) who delight in coming up<BR>
>with weird plot twists.<BR>
><BR>
>That, and Ciencia is totally hot.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.  That would make her Ciencia Natty, no? :^)<BR>
<BR>
        - Mark C.<BR>
          Instructor, Willamette Small Arms Academy<BR>
          EOD, U.S.M.C. 1st MarDiv (Camp Pendleton), Class of '75<BR>
          Full-Auto Director, Albany Rifle & Pistol Club, Albany, OR<BR>
          NRA (Life), SAF (Life), CCRKBA (Life)<BR>
          Front Sight First Family member #1<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
 mark f. cook   *   shoestring graphics & printing   *  markc@ssgfx.com<BR>
 7160 n.w. somerset dr. * corvallis, or, 97330  *  http://www.ssgfx.com<BR>
 Phone: 541-745-5709                                  Fax: 541-745-5818<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:16:58 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Old SNL Skit<BR>
<BR>
>Hmmm, after a little thought, I would killing a mark a meal in itself.<BR>
>Though mixing business with pleasure is possibly a mistake. now you ask,<BR>
>which is business and which is pleasure?<BR>
<BR>
"You pick 'em!  You Stun 'em!  You cut the steak out and grill it!"<BR>
<BR>
Early original cast stuff.<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:21:19 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: HERITIC!<BR>
<BR>
>For the record, from a native of the area, the name is pronounced<BR>
>"Puh-KIP-see"<BR>
<BR>
Only the drug crazed djs from WPDH pronounced that way!<BR>
It's "Po-keep-see."<BR>
<BR>
A native, huh?  Did Al Sharpton come to town to defend a cheerleader from <BR>
your high school?<BR>
Or did you go to the one with the area's only parquat death? (points for <BR>
identifying that school).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ob-Trav:  Not a damn thing....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was<BR>
burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway.<BR>
That's our story and we're sticking to it.  http://www.bigfoott.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:36:26 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
<BR>
>Re: More Human than Human<BR>
>Question to the List?<BR>
>Has anyone worked up stats for<BR>
>New Race Draka?<BR>
>Or something thereabouts?<BR>
<BR>
No, but it's it very doable with GURPS:BIOTECH.  S.M. Stirling's Draka is <BR>
listed in the book as a source.<BR>
There is a fan site (check my SF page) that lists basic stats.<BR>
<BR>
It's on my list of things to do when I finish my list of things to do.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?<BR>
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.<BR>
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:51:21 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Gurps Ogre<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 9:41:am<BR>
Subject: Gurps Ogre<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> A quick heads-up for people in and around Brisbane:  that's you, Roc!<BR>
><BR>
> I was in Brissie yesterday.   A comics store - Daily Planet - on Elizabeth<BR>
> St had the second volume of the CT reprint series!  Sadly, it cost $75.95!<BR>
> I didn't buy it - I went around to Napoleon's (George St) and bought<BR>
Gurps:<BR>
> Ogre for $44 instead - so it may still be there.<BR>
<BR>
Thank-you Alan!  Will look when I have the chance!!<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:47:17 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: defence on the cheap<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/14/00 8:34:14 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< What we do lack is self propelled artillery. >><BR>
 <BR>
 what towed tubes and prime movers do you use?<BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
 Isn't this called a rocket or a missile?<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
well I was thinking of conventional CPR cannon, but yeah rockets and missiles <BR>
are artillery too...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:59:16 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Striker computer game?<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Doug & Hans:<BR>
>>Like only 1/3 of the Marines being equipped with battledress?<BR>
><BR>
>Fair enough if _The Kinunir_ was the only source, Doug[*], but I believe I<BR>
>mentioned some other stuff too back when we discussed it. Like how Imperial<BR>
>Marine regiments in FFW were no tougher than any other TL 15 regiments (and<BR>
>less tough than TL 15 armored regiments), and only 25% of them were elite..<BR>
<BR>
This exchange reminds me: how many of you have played the new real-time Striker<BR>
PC computer game (well, I _know_ it's called "Ground Control", but I know what<BR>
it _really_ looks like...)<BR>
<BR>
It even has armoured infantry.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:11:08 -0500<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
<BR>
Mark,<BR>
Thanks for the reference.<BR>
I think that my Emperium would deal with these<BR>
persons in the traditional manner. <BR>
"Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to<BR>
be sure"<BR>
<BR>
They's make an entertaining NPC, though<BR>
I must admit to some, well.....sadistic thoughts<BR>
as to what I could do to my gaming group with<BR>
them. <BR>
<BR>
Has anyone else come up with a variant<BR>
similar to this as well. I recall seeing somewhere<BR>
a write up on the Kontrin from CJ Cherryh.<BR>
They'd be an interesting foil for a New Race<BR>
Draka, heya?<BR>
<BR>
Also, Mark, I like you website and the ring surf seems<BR>
to be quite interesting.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks again for the efforts.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
Pat Connaughton<BR>
patconnaughton@earthlink.net<BR>
ICQ # 2535086<BR>
www.home.earthlink.net/~patconnaughton/<BR>
"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>
how to reign"<BR>
Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:10:32 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks (was: Re: Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:27:25 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 14:42:35 -0700<BR>
>From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
>> Fuel is stored as liquid hydrogen.  The existence of drop tanks argues for<BR>
>> the hydrogen being spent at the start of the jump, rather than gradually<BR>
>> over a week; in addition, the fact that you could otherwise use chemical<BR>
>> storage and a fuel processing plant and free up a lot of volume on a<BR>
>> merchant ship argues in favor of this distinction.<BR>
<BR>
>Drop tanks!? fah.  We don't need no stibking drop tanks.  Not in MTU anyway.<BR>
>Have drop tanks been ackowledged by the list? I thought this was still a<BR>
>matter of some debate.<BR>
<BR>
TTBOMK, Drop tanks are not only accepted, they're canonical, though<BR>
uncommon.  There _was_ a debate a while back over on rgf.gurps about their<BR>
use in combat, with the implication that they were being used in<BR>
'go-and-drop' (i.e., kick 'em off just after you come out of jump) mode,<BR>
rather than 'drop-and-go' (i.e., kick 'em off just before you go into jump)<BR>
mode.  Go-and-drop is definitely _not_ canonical, and in fact is<BR>
anticanonical.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:12:34 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller websites, please note:<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:27:25 -0400 (EDT), "swordworlder"<BR>
<swordworlder@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>There are now 108 Traveller-devoted websites listed on the Netscape<BR>
>directory / Open Directory project. If you have or know of a website devoted<BR>
>to Traveller, any flavor, that is not listed here, please help out by<BR>
>submitting the URL. At the site listed below, just click the Add URL link at<BR>
>the top of the page and type the minimal info requested. I know there are at<BR>
>least 200 sites out there (in fact, there are over 150 on the webring), so<BR>
>lets get them listed for the enjoyment of all.  Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
>http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Systems/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
With apologies for suggesting the (perhaps) obvious, but... <BR>
<BR>
Have you walked the WebRing(s) to pick up the ones you don't have?<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:18:41 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
>I just purchased the Traveller Classics Core rules and the D&D3 DMG. On<BR>
>reading, the former seems to have much more help for the referee than the<BR>
>latter. ... but maybe that's just me. I can do without a book of NPC<BR>
>character classes.<BR>
<BR>
It's not quite that bad. Just under four pages of NPC classes out of 253<BR>
total pages (not including the index). What's more, the NPC classes actually<BR>
have a reason for being there.<BR>
<BR>
The rest of the book is pretty dense with usable stuff. The DMing section<BR>
looks like it would be wonderful for new DMs, but was still informative for<BR>
me. The "Behind the Curtain" sections sprinkled throughout the book allows<BR>
DMs to take a look at the theory and reasoning behind various design<BR>
decisions. The authors always try to illustrate the advantages and<BR>
disadvantages of variants, which provides a great deal of insight into how<BR>
the game was intended to work. The sections on modifying classes and races<BR>
is great.<BR>
<BR>
Then there's Chapter 3. Beautiful, wonderful, fantastic chapter three. In<BR>
Chapter 3 a DM can find a description of all the special abilities monsters<BR>
might have. A DM can peruse the list of different "states" a character may<BR>
end up in as a result of combat or magic use. They are all simply explained<BR>
in crystal clear language. What can a paralyzed character do? What happens<BR>
when a character is entangled? How much damage does a character suffer when<BR>
he reaches into boiling water to grab a magic ring? So much info is given<BR>
that it's amazingly easy to fill in any gaps. A whole page of sample<BR>
"Difficulty Classes" allows the DM to come up with his own on the fly.<BR>
<BR>
I haven't even gotten to the later chapters yet. There are handy guidelines<BR>
for how much "stuff" characters should have. There are handy guidelines for<BR>
rating magic items of different types against each other.<BR>
<BR>
But, I have to stress again, that the authors try to make their reasoning<BR>
behind doing things very clear, time and time again.<BR>
<BR>
In the simplest terms, I've never seen a book which is more tuned to the<BR>
DM's concerns than the new DM's Guide. Then again, I like knowing why<BR>
certain rules are in place.<BR>
<BR>
That's pretty much my (off-topic) post for this week.<BR>
<BR>
To bring this back on topic, I simply adore the notion of making the logic<BR>
behind the rules clear as those rules are presented in a book. It's just a<BR>
really good policy. I was a fan of it when Loren commented on such things in<BR>
GURPS Traveller (i.e. Nanotech isn't in Traveller because... if you want to<BR>
use it, try it this way). Then again, I've never been satisfied with all of<BR>
the rules as presented, so I tweak them. It's great to know, beforehand,<BR>
what effects tweaking certain rules will have on the game. It's much better<BR>
to find this stuff out early on than to find out after you introduce a new<BR>
rule.<BR>
<BR>
Anyhow, I'd like to humbly request that this sort of thing be addressed in a<BR>
new Traveller system, although I understand that space constraints may not<BR>
allow it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:23:32 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: AngloMetric Thumbnail Conversions<BR>
<BR>
Some of us speak English/Imperial measurements, some of us speak metric.<BR>
Here's a quick-and-dirty conversion table.  Conversions are not exact, but<BR>
can be used for estimates, and are probably accurate enough for most<BR>
Traveller use.<BR>
<BR>
1 kg ~= 2 lbs<BR>
1 oz ~= 30 g<BR>
<BR>
1 km ~= .6 mile<BR>
1 mile ~= 1.6 km<BR>
1 m ~= 1 yard<BR>
1 ft ~= 30 cm<BR>
1 in ~= 25 mm<BR>
<BR>
1 qt (Amer) ~= 1 l<BR>
1 gal (Amer) ~= 3.75 l<BR>
<BR>
(Note: I don't have the English/American/Canadian conversions, sorry)<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 22:24:13 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: "Sgt. Mayhem" <Sky_Master@go.com><BR>
Subject: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
I noticed a lot of messages about "canon" rules.  What is that?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________<BR>
GO.com Mail                                    <BR>
Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 01:09:08 -0500<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
"canon" as in "canonical" or lawful <BR>
Canon refers to the portion of the public<BR>
body of works of and for Traveller which<BR>
are considered to be the "correct" or<BR>
"lawful" basis for the rules and milieu(s)<BR>
of the game of Travller<BR>
<BR>
Hope this help<BR>
<BR>
Pat Connaughton (demi-heretic) and Traveller<BR>
Aficionado<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Sgt. Mayhem <Sky_Master@go.com><BR>
To: <traveller-digest@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 12:24 AM<BR>
Subject: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I noticed a lot of messages about "canon" rules.  What is that?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> ___________________________________________________<BR>
> GO.com Mail                                    <BR>
> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 01:26:34 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well over here in the UK, a gallon is 4.5454545 etc Litres. the rhyme to<BR>
> remember the conversion is "A litre of water is a pint and three-quarter"<BR>
> (actually its 1.76 pints, but it's close enough)<BR>
<BR>
Are those the 'imperial' 20oz pints they serve beer in over there,<BR>
or the non-imperial 16 oz pints they serve beer in over here?<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 01:39:43 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: D&D3<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >I just purchased the Traveller Classics Core rules and the D&D3 DMG. On<BR>
> >reading, the former seems to have much more help for the referee than the<BR>
> >latter. ... but maybe that's just me. I can do without a book of NPC<BR>
> >character classes.<BR>
><BR>
> It's not quite that bad. Just under four pages of NPC classes out of 253<BR>
> total pages (not including the index). What's more, the NPC classes actually<BR>
> have a reason for being there.<BR>
<BR>
Read the description for Commoner:  "Player characters should not be<BR>
commoners, since commoners make poor adventurers.  Instead, the<BR>
commoner class should be reserved for everyone who does not<BR>
qualify for any other class."  But there are NO requirements for<BR>
ANY class!  Nevermind their reasoning that PCs should always<BR>
choose more powerful classes, there is no doubt that the Lollipop<BR>
Guild and the Wizards of the Coast have a good working relationship.<BR>
<BR>
And I find their NPC tables ridiculous.  The standard NPC fighter is<BR>
always going to spend two feats so he can use a Bastard Sword in<BR>
one or two hands.  Yeah.  That's sounds reasonable.  But at least<BR>
their NPCs are as min/maxed as they suggest PCs should be, so<BR>
their munchkin standard is at least consistent.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Then there's Chapter 3. Beautiful, wonderful, fantastic chapter three. In<BR>
> Chapter 3 a DM can find a description of all the special abilities monsters<BR>
> might have.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, right.  It ain't got 'all' of nothing.  It already omits at least two<BR>
monster<BR>
special abilities ("monster feats") that will be in the Monster Manual<BR>
(Fly-by Attack and Multi-Attack).<BR>
<BR>
Then there are the odd references to morale checks and morale bonuses<BR>
but no rules for morale.  Interesting.<BR>
<BR>
Don't get me started on the ridiculous 'prestige' classes.  nice idea.<BR>
atrocious execution.  And virtually no guidelines on creating your<BR>
own prestige classes, merely some throw-away 'be balanced'<BR>
kind of drivel.<BR>
<BR>
The rule mods for monster PCs/NPCs:  half-dragons?  half-fiends,<BR>
half-celestials, half-assed.<BR>
<BR>
The whole Challenge Rating thing seems poorly implemented.  I like<BR>
the theory but again execution is weak.<BR>
<BR>
There are some enlightened discussions of the problems and balance<BR>
issues, as well as the good points, here:<BR>
http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/<BR>
<BR>
So, I'll try to cut down on the OT.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> To bring this back on topic, I simply adore the notion of making the logic<BR>
> behind the rules clear as those rules are presented in a book. It's just a<BR>
> really good policy.<BR>
<BR>
I do agree here.  Annotations on game mechanic theory and design are<BR>
very welcome.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 00:11:05 -0700<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: California Dreaming<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:53 PM 9/13/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >Other California names that shouldn't be forgotten: Azusa (everything from<BR>
> A to Z in the USA), Tarzana, and Zzyyxx City (not sure if it's actually a<BR>
> town, but it's an exit on the interstate between LA and Las Vegas).<BR>
><BR>
> Three Rocks.<BR>
><BR>
> City of Industry.<BR>
<BR>
Since we're tossing out names, here's my Fav....... Farad<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
When Spring comes back with rustling shade,<BR>
And apple blossoms fills the air,<BR>
I have a rendezvous with Death,<BR>
When spring brings back blue days and fair.<BR>
 Legionnaire Alan Seeger, KIA the Somme.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 07:48:44 +0100<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
<BR>
"Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Derrick<BR>
<BR>
>Not very likely, in GT anyway. GT-Ultratech fusion plants use miniscule<BR>
>amounts of fuel. The Megacorps, IISS and the Imperial Navy are the major<BR>
>users of refined fuel. Private ship owners are a fraction of the total<BR>
>number of users of refined fuel. In tonnage their number is even smaller.<BR>
>The typical Imperial citizen is not likely to take notice of the price of<BR>
>fuel. Fusion is cheap power. On a planet making refined fuel is trivial if<BR>
>the planet has water. Even in space if a gas giant is present in the system<BR>
>it's just a matter of scooping it.<BR>
<BR>
>It's a good try but the entire basis of technology presupposes that energy<BR>
>is cheap and plentiful at GTL-10/12, at least in GT.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Terry C<BR>
<BR>
Hello? Did you not quite understand the concept of the post? Irony is wasted on<BR>
some people, I suppose. It should have been labelled [OT].. Well, OK, taking it <BR>
at face value, I'll reply.<BR>
<BR>
GT? What's that? The post made perfect sense if you take into consideration<BR>
the twenty odd years of Traveller economics and background information, where<BR>
infinite duration power plants don't exist. To try to 'debunk' such a post on the basis<BR>
of it not fitting something dreamed up five minutes ago (figuratively speaking) is<BR>
ludicrous. Would I not be quite right in assuming that since the GT is a variant,<BR>
(although the only current Traveller published and fair play to them), posts not<BR>
specifically marked as GT are not meant to be relevant under GT rules???<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Works for me. <BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:11:17 +0100<BR>
From: "Derrick Jones" <dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness refuelling. <BR>
<BR>
<in response to the wilderness refuelling responses from the fuel blockade posts, and with some<BR>
relevance to the surfer's comments from some previous posters. Having no relevance, whatsoever, to<BR>
GT economics><BR>
<BR>
Report begins><BR>
<BR>
Terra<BR>
124-1123<BR>
<BR>
Surfer protesters were out in their numbers today, lobbying polititcians, refinery<BR>
bosses and ship owners alike. The problem it seems, is a continuation from the<BR>
fuel protesters successful campaign. (They stood down their campaign recently<BR>
after getting confirmation that the situation would be investigated by government -<BR>
only to face yet another price hike by the fuel companies!)<BR>
<BR>
It appears that individual ship and vehicle owners have taken to extensive wilderness<BR>
refuelling in response to the action. The knock on effect has been two fold. Firstly,<BR>
ships without purifiers have been more at risk from catastophic failure of drive<BR>
systems, (and at least 250 deaths have resulted from this when the liner 'Evening<BR>
Standard' was lost last week after jumping with unrefined fuel - see page 1).<BR>
<BR>
The other effect, and the main cause of concern with these protesters is the waste<BR>
products emmanating from the purification plants of those ship owners fortunate<BR>
enough to own them.<BR>
<BR>
A spokesman, Mr 'Scary Dave' Doobins (Olympic surfing champion for the last two<BR>
olympics) said : "It's wierd man, you try to go surfing and end up getting govered<BR>
in all this gold and silver shit. I mean, dude, what the f***'s it doing to my finely tuned<BR>
bio sytsem? And what happens, like, when they've taken all the water, we won't<BR>
have any freakin waves, man. Surf's down. Bummer!"<BR>
<BR>
At this, Mr Doobins was taken away for compulsory drugs testing by members of<BR>
the olympic prohibited substances detection team, weilding a big bottle, a length<BR>
of rubber tubing and a funnel.....<BR>
<BR>
More on this story as it happens<BR>
<BR>
<report ends><BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Derrick Jones<BR>
St Helens<BR>
Lancashire UK<BR>
http://www.btinternet.com/~dojones.whitestar<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:35:50 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
The first of the FFE Classic Traveller Reprints has a list of canonical<BR>
sources in the front, if you wanna check 'em out.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> "canon" as in "canonical" or lawful <BR>
> Canon refers to the portion of the public<BR>
> body of works of and for Traveller which<BR>
> are considered to be the "correct" or<BR>
> "lawful" basis for the rules and milieu(s)<BR>
> of the game of Travller<BR>
> <BR>
> Hope this help<BR>
> <BR>
> Pat Connaughton (demi-heretic) and Traveller<BR>
> Aficionado<BR>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> From: Sgt. Mayhem <Sky_Master@go.com><BR>
> To: <traveller-digest@mpgn.com><BR>
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 12:24 AM<BR>
> Subject: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > I noticed a lot of messages about "canon" rules.  What is that?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > ___________________________________________________<BR>
> > GO.com Mail                                    <BR>
> > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3053<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 15 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3054<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: defence on the cheap <BR>
Re: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness refuelling. <BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
Re: Naming patterns<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Escaping from Poughkeepsie<BR>
Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
Laptop Computers **SPAM ALERT**<BR>
GRIP-Traveller<BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: The Kinunir<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3048<BR>
Re: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
Re: The Kinunir<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
Re:  Mangled spanish<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 23:19:37 -0700<BR>
From: Edward Swatschek <traveller@bitslayer.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Well over here in the UK, a gallon is 4.5454545 etc Litres. the rhyme to<BR>
> remember the conversion is "A litre of water is a pint and three-quarter"<BR>
> (actually its 1.76 pints, but it's close enough)<BR>
> <BR>
> And petrol costs ~88p a litre, or 4.00 a gallon, which is ~$6.00 per UK<BR>
> gallon, or ~$4.99 per US gallon... Hydrogen starts to look attractive over<BR>
> here, as much of the duty on petrol is 'justified' as a green tax, to reduce<BR>
> pollution by discouraging petrol consumption. Yeah, right!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind that the energy per unit of volume is quite different for<BR>
hydrogen vs petrol.   By mass, hydrogen has nearly 3 times the energy<BR>
content as petrol (assuming you're burning and not fusing them, of course). <BR>
But by volume, petrol has roughly 2000 times the energy of the same volume*<BR>
of hydrogen gas at (I think) 1 atmosphere.   Even as a liquid, hydrogen has<BR>
half the energy of a similar volume of petrol.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
* pet peeve: measuring gaseous products by volume without specifying<BR>
pressure or density.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Edward Swatschek - edjs@bitslayer.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:33:40 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
Actually 90% of the media coverage centered on areas outside London because that<BR>
is where the shortages were biting.<BR>
<BR>
London Today, the local news programme was reduced to saying things like '...and<BR>
it will not be long before London is affected too.'<BR>
<BR>
I'm suprised that London has been so little affected, I suspect that<BR>
supermarkets etc routinely maintain higher stocking levels here than they do in<BR>
the rest of the country.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 12:59 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 19:20 -0400 13/9/00, "Ben Aaronovitch"<BR>
> <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> >Nobody is really panicking in the UK, at the moment it is mostly media hype,<BR>
> >because they know that before the situation can become life threatening one<BR>
of<BR>
> >two things will happen. The government will either back down or the<BR>
government<BR>
> >will use the instruments of the state to ensure that fuel supplies<BR>
> >are restored.<BR>
><BR>
> Ben, I'm not panicking.<BR>
><BR>
> However, this actually shows the London/Home Counties focus of the<BR>
> media. Wales and the North West had effectively run out of fuel by<BR>
> Sunday night / Monday morning. Hence we are two or three days ahead<BR>
> of the rest of the country. On top of that, the impact is probably<BR>
> lessened within the M25 (London's orbital carpark, sorry, motorway<BR>
> for non-UK readers) due to the significant use of public transport...<BR>
><BR>
> But overall I agree with you.<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
><BR>
> ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
> "We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
> can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
> http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:35 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <00914.152459.2r4.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Leonard said "Suddenly I have this image of someone starting a company <BR>
that produces unit patches and "background breifing" booklets for the use <BR>
of various countries' OPFOR units. With substantial secondary sales to SF <BR>
fans and gamers."<BR>
<BR>
Funnily enough, when I was in the British Army I was remarkably popular <BR>
because I could come up with realistic sounding OPFORs, mission scenarios <BR>
etc at the drop of a hat...<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 02:16:11 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
<BR>
What about Niven's/Pournell's Saurons?<BR>
<BR>
- --- Pat Connaughton <patconnaughton@earthlink.net> wrote:<BR>
> Mark,<BR>
> Thanks for the reference.<BR>
> I think that my Emperium would deal with these<BR>
> persons in the traditional manner. <BR>
> "Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to<BR>
> be sure"<BR>
> <BR>
> They's make an entertaining NPC, though<BR>
> I must admit to some, well.....sadistic thoughts<BR>
> as to what I could do to my gaming group with<BR>
> them. <BR>
> <BR>
> Has anyone else come up with a variant<BR>
> similar to this as well. I recall seeing somewhere<BR>
> a write up on the Kontrin from CJ Cherryh.<BR>
> They'd be an interesting foil for a New Race<BR>
> Draka, heya?<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, Mark, I like you website and the ring surf seems<BR>
> to be quite interesting.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks again for the efforts.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks<BR>
> Pat Connaughton<BR>
> patconnaughton@earthlink.net<BR>
> ICQ # 2535086<BR>
> www.home.earthlink.net/~patconnaughton/<BR>
> "He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>
> how to reign"<BR>
> Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:24 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <v04210105b5e716150ba8@[195.102.197.85]><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
The media tends to ignore us in the North-West. Crewe in Cheshire has no <BR>
petrol... I am webmeistering from home today, paused for a brief online <BR>
gossip & then will settle down to do the college's Student Handbook web <BR>
conversion (despite the row of rpg books that live on my desk!).<BR>
<BR>
I don't expect petrol until the middle of next week. Last Wednesday I <BR>
walked a 6-mile round trip to go to the roleplaying club. <BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 01:34:42 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: defence on the cheap <BR>
<BR>
"Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> What we [Australia] do lack is self propelled artillery.<BR>
> (Donations anyone?)<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I don't have any self propelled artillery, for some<BR>
reason it is against the zoning laws around here. You might <BR>
want to check with Mark Cook though :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:57:46 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness refuelling. <BR>
<BR>
<in response to the wilderness refuelling responses from the fuel blockade<BR>
posts, and with some<BR>
relevance to the surfer's comments from some previous posters. Having no<BR>
relevance, whatsoever, to<BR>
GT economics><BR>
<BR>
Report begins><BR>
<BR>
Terra<BR>
124-1123<BR>
<BR>
Surfer protesters were out in their numbers today, lobbying polititcians,<BR>
refinery<BR>
bosses and ship owners alike. The problem it seems, is a continuation from<BR>
the<BR>
fuel protesters successful campaign. (They stood down their campaign<BR>
recently<BR>
after getting confirmation that the situation would be investigated by<BR>
government -<BR>
only to face yet another price hike by the fuel companies!)<BR>
<BR>
It appears that individual ship and vehicle owners have taken to extensive<BR>
wilderness<BR>
refuelling in response to the action. The knock on effect has been two fold.<BR>
Firstly,<BR>
ships without purifiers have been more at risk from catastophic failure of<BR>
drive<BR>
systems, (and at least 250 deaths have resulted from this when the liner<BR>
'Evening<BR>
Standard' was lost last week after jumping with unrefined fuel - see page<BR>
1).<BR>
<BR>
The other effect, and the main cause of concern with these protesters is the<BR>
waste<BR>
products emmanating from the purification plants of those ship owners<BR>
fortunate<BR>
enough to own them.<BR>
<BR>
A spokesman, Mr 'Scary Dave' Doobins (Olympic surfing champion for the last<BR>
two<BR>
olympics) said : "It's wierd man, you try to go surfing and end up getting<BR>
govered<BR>
in all this gold and silver shit. I mean, dude, what the f***'s it doing to<BR>
my finely tuned<BR>
bio sytsem? And what happens, like, when they've taken all the water, we<BR>
won't<BR>
have any freakin waves, man. Surf's down. Bummer!"<BR>
<BR>
At this, Mr Doobins was taken away for compulsory drugs testing by members<BR>
of<BR>
the olympic prohibited substances detection team, weilding a big bottle, a<BR>
length<BR>
of rubber tubing and a funnel.....<BR>
<BR>
More on this story as it happens<BR>
<BR>
<report ends><BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Derrick<BR>
<BR>
*****************<BR>
<BR>
: )<BR>
Just a quick one, whats the coposition of say Jupiter's or Saturn's or<BR>
Venus's atmosphere? Is it something tht can be coverted into fuel? Is it<BR>
Hydrogen based? Just as a matter of keeping the Surfers happy.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:50:25 +0100<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>         Don't think it was from "A Clockwork Orange."  The old drunk used<BR>
> "Cotter" on two occasions  while panhandling ("...can you spare me some<BR>
> cotter, me brother?")<BR>
<BR>
"Copper" referring to the copper quarter, half, one, and two pence/d<BR>
coins. Dosh just means money, don't know where the word originates from.<BR>
<BR>
Ewan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:55:00 +0100<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Naming patterns<BR>
<BR>
> Somewhere in England, one finds Torpenhow Hill. Tor, Pen, and How all<BR>
> mean hill, in (I think, and in no particular order), Cornish, Welsh, and<BR>
> something else. Thus "hill hill hill hill".<BR>
> <BR>
> yours,<BR>
> Michael<BR>
<BR>
Like wise there is a town called Mortonhamton. Mor, ton, and ham all<BR>
mean town, thus "town, town, town, town." At least we're consistent ...<g><BR>
<BR>
Ewan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 08:29:12 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
Leonard wrote:<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Does anyone know the process for making Liquid Hydrogen?<BR>
> <BR>
> More or less.<BR>
> <BR>
> You cool it, first by compression, cooling of the compressed gas, and<BR>
> allowing the compressed gas to expand (which cools it further).<BR>
> <BR>
> Enough stages of this will get the gas pretty cold. I *think* you can<BR>
> get LH2 this way, but if not, you start using other tricks. <BR>
> <BR>
One description (in Popular Science, IIRC) noted that the final stage<BR>
involved taking the *cold* high-pressure gas and using it to spin<BR>
a turbine, expanding it _and_ causing it to do work (extracting energy<BR>
from it). The result was, finally, liquid hydrogen.<BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:51:00 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
I've been thinking about the timing/dates of this, and dug out my own<BR>
copy of "The Kinunir" to check the references.<BR>
<BR>
INS Kinunir disappeared in 1088, and was believed lost.<BR>
In 1089, a scout remembers picking up the Kinunir's beacon in the<BR>
Shionthy system.<BR>
In 1105, the Kinunir was still missing.<BR>
In 1108(?), Norris appeared with a Warrant.<BR>
<BR>
The thing is, just because Kinunir disappeared from official view in<BR>
1088 doesn't mean that that was when the disaster occured.  In fact,<BR>
one of the rumours in the adventure hints that the ship's loss was<BR>
faked as a cover story.  Maybe she was put at the special disposal of<BR>
Naval Intelligence and spent the next 20 years on secret missions and<BR>
black ops.  Perhaps the Shionthy system was one of her bases (the<BR>
interdiction and the alleged antimatter asteroids serving to keep out<BR>
curious visitors).  Either her last mission was to travel to Capital<BR>
to pick up a warrant for Norris, or she already had one aboard<BR>
(convenient in the kind of work her captain would be called on to do).<BR>
This also nicely explains how Norris knew about the Kinunir - perhaps<BR>
he served on her in his NI days...<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 07:52:29 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
on 9/14/00 11:19 PM, Edward Swatschek at traveller@bitslayer.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Keep in mind that the energy per unit of volume is quite different for<BR>
> hydrogen vs petrol.   By mass, hydrogen has nearly 3 times the energy<BR>
> content as petrol (assuming you're burning and not fusing them, of course).<BR>
> But by volume, petrol has roughly 2000 times the energy of the same volume*<BR>
> of hydrogen gas at (I think) 1 atmosphere.   Even as a liquid, hydrogen has<BR>
> half the energy of a similar volume of petrol.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> * pet peeve: measuring gaseous products by volume without specifying<BR>
> pressure or density.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
The usual presumption is at standard temperature and pressure (STP).<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:32:13 -0400<BR>
From: Justin Kim <justinki@bellatlantic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Escaping from Poughkeepsie<BR>
<BR>
>On Thu, 14 Sep 2000 11:47:43 -0400 (EDT), Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
>wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>In additiont to New York (city) and LA, one can escape from Poughkeepsie.<BR>
>>FYI, Poughkeepsie is a small city in the Hudson Valley region of New York<BR>
>>State.<BR>
>>Home of Vasser College, among other things.<BR>
<BR>
	And as an alumni of the college mentioned above, it's spelled <BR>
'Vassar." :)  And, yes (for those of you who don't know and do care) <BR>
Vassar does accept male students.<BR>
<BR>
Justin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:42:50 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
The class and the ship name are getting confused.<BR>
<BR>
The warrant for Norris was carried by 9519 Markashi (not by 9514 Kinunir). <BR>
The loss of the Kinunir was separate. At the time "Kinunir" was written, <BR>
Markashi had not been lost.<BR>
<BR>
Marc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:56:02 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Laptop Computers **SPAM ALERT**<BR>
<BR>
This is SPAM but I have a great deal that I thought I would offer to my<BR>
colleagues here on the TML. Over the years I've seen a number of posts for<BR>
people wishing they had a laptop to do some of their Traveller stuff. I just<BR>
came into possession of four (4) Toshiba "486" laptops that I am going to<BR>
sell for $150.00 a piece. Shipping will be less than $20.00. If you are<BR>
interested please contact me off-list and I will give you the details.<BR>
<BR>
Please forgive the SPAM. Normally I would sell these on eBay but this is a<BR>
pretty good deal on some well cared for little laptops and I can't remember<BR>
specific names of people on the TML that mentioned it.<BR>
<BR>
thomharr@mediaone.net<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:39:21 -0400<BR>
From: Bob Kovalchick <Kovalchick@wbgh.com><BR>
Subject: GRIP-Traveller<BR>
<BR>
I have been researching the GRIP-Traveller software, and was wondering if<BR>
anybody on the list has used it, or uses it regularly.<BR>
The message board at the GRIP website has a few horror stories about<BR>
connecting etc. So I was hoping to get some good feedback from TML members<BR>
in the know.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
Bob Kovalchick<BR>
Washington Business Group on Health<BR>
E:kovalchick@wbgh.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 22:32:28 +0100<BR>
From: "Neil McGurk" <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
Snip<BR>
<BR>
> Don't think it was from "A Clockwork Orange."  The old drunk used<BR>
> "Cotter" on two occasions  while panhandling ("...can you spare me some<BR>
> cotter, me brother?"), and Alex refers to "Pretty Polly" once or twice<BR>
> ("...if you want pretty polly, you taaake it")<BR>
> Who, me?  A Kubric fan?  Naaaa.....  ;o)<BR>
<BR>
'Pretty Polly' would be rhyming slang for 'lolly'. Which is another slang<BR>
word for money. 'Lolly' may be also rhyming slang, but I don't know for<BR>
definite.<BR>
<BR>
Nellkyn<BR>
<BR>
> Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- --<BR>
> Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to<BR>
think<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:41:15 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
Ewan Quibell wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >         Don't think it was from "A Clockwork Orange."  The old drunk used<BR>
> > "Cotter" on two occasions  while panhandling ("...can you spare me some<BR>
> > cotter, me brother?")<BR>
> <BR>
> "Copper" referring to the copper quarter, half, one, and two pence/d<BR>
> coins. Dosh just means money, don't know where the word originates from.<BR>
<BR>
It was indeed 'cutter', per the nadsat dictionary in the novel (and the<BR>
novel itself)<BR>
<BR>
See: http://home.earthlink.net/~snowboards/aco/nadsat.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:09:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 06:56 PM 9/14/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>BTW, Doug.  Are you coming back up for the ARPC Winter Full-Auto Fun Shoot<BR>
>this year?  It's Saturday, Dec. 9th.  I *know* Jesse is coming.  I swear<BR>
>I won't make you a Range Officer this time.  *Promise*!! :^)<BR>
<BR>
I'm going to try, especially if you have the M-16 up and running.  My work<BR>
situation may be changing a bit, so I'll let you know if things go south on<BR>
my coming north.<BR>
<BR>
Mark, I had a *great time* as a RSO.  Really.  Honestly.  Right up until<BR>
that mental midget swept us with the muzzle of the MG-42.  Take a look at<BR>
my homepage to see how much I enjoyed this event.  I still have the mud on<BR>
my shoes.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/<BR>
                --|--<BR>
There's only us.      There's only this.<BR>
    No other way.     No other path.<BR>
          No day but today.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:15:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
At 01:55 AM 9/15/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>
>Douglas E. Berry<BR>
<BR>
>>Like only 1/3 of the Marines being equipped with battledress?<BR>
> <BR>
>Fair enough if _The Kinunir_ was the only source, Doug[*], but I believe I<BR>
>mentioned some other stuff too back when we discussed it. Like how Imperial<BR>
>Marine regiments in FFW were no tougher than any other TL 15 regiments (and<BR>
>less tough than TL 15 armored regiments), and only 25% of them were elite<BR>
>(Well, I say 'only'; it's still better than the 10% of other troops that are<BR>
>elite). So either the marines in those regiments are not all dressed in BD,<BR>
>or _all_ TL 15 regiments are routinely equipped with BDs. I know which one<BR>
>I consider the most likely.<BR>
<BR>
Fair enough, except I was directed to use the information in JTAS 12 which<BR>
declared in now uncertain terms that all marines are trained in, and<BR>
equipped with Battledress.<BR>
<BR>
As for the realtive toughness of the Marines in 5FW, I try to make it clear<BR>
in GF that the Marines are assault troops, and not really well-suited for<BR>
long, drawn out campaigns.  So the Marine Regiments in 5FW are, pound for<BR>
pound, tougher than their opponents, bnut they lack the staying power,<BR>
which balances out over the week-long turns.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:21:43<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3048<BR>
<BR>
At 07:00 PM 9/14/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>Douglas also writes:<BR>
<BR>
>>That, and Ciencia is totally hot.<BR>
><BR>
>Hmmm.  That would make her Ciencia Natty, no? :^)<BR>
<BR>
Boy, is my face Reds.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:27:45<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
At 10:24 PM 9/14/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>I noticed a lot of messages about "canon" rules.  What is that?<BR>
<BR>
The body of Traveller background that is accepted by the majority as<BR>
official parts of the game environment.  We rarely discuss canonical rules,<BR>
per say, but instead argue about elements of the setting.<BR>
<BR>
For example, in Adventure 4: Leviathan, an item named the jump torpedo was<BR>
introduced.  It was the size of a standard missile, and had a jump engine.<BR>
Now this violated the rule that the smallest craft that could carry a jump<BR>
drive is 100 tons.  So the jump torpedo is non-canonical.<BR>
<BR>
Canon is a way for us to center our discussions a bit.  It gives us a<BR>
common baseline to start from.  Most people's Traveller games incorporate<BR>
non-canonical elements (my own game has the Fifth Frontier War doing far<BR>
more damage to the Spinward Marches than the official version.)<BR>
<BR>
Hope this helps.<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Duugirashir Irebamenagiin  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:51:42 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry writes:<BR>
> At 01:55 AM 9/15/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>
> >Douglas E. Berry<BR>
> >not all dressed in BD, or _all_ TL 15 regiments are routinely equipped with<BR>
> >BDs. I know which one I consider the most likely.<BR>
> <BR>
> Fair enough, except I was directed to use the information in JTAS 12 which<BR>
> declared in now uncertain terms that all marines are trained in, and<BR>
> equipped with Battledress.<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that all TL 15 space-mobile combat regiments _are_ routinely <BR>
equipped with at least light BD.  The increase in capability is generally<BR>
greater than the increase in cost, at least for troops who need to be<BR>
transported long distances (and are thus very expensive already).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:59:58 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Steve Daniels" <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 7:26 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Well over here in the UK, a gallon is 4.5454545 etc Litres. the rhyme to<BR>
> > remember the conversion is "A litre of water is a pint and<BR>
three-quarter"<BR>
> > (actually its 1.76 pints, but it's close enough)<BR>
><BR>
> Are those the 'imperial' 20oz pints they serve beer in over there,<BR>
> or the non-imperial 16 oz pints they serve beer in over here?<BR>
><BR>
> bloo<BR>
<BR>
Oh, you poor man...<BR>
<BR>
Over here it's proper pints for proper beer... 20 fl oz of Tetley Bitter,<BR>
bah' gum! <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:56:12 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 8:35 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> The first of the FFE Classic Traveller Reprints has a list of canonical<BR>
> sources in the front, if you wanna check 'em out.<BR>
<BR>
Strictly speaking, that list is just the Classic Traveller canon...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:10:07 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  Mangled spanish<BR>
<BR>
>From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3048<BR>
><BR>
>> Funny, I though Ano Nuevo was spanish for "What is that elephant seal<BR>
>>doing to omygod Ethel, cover the kids' eyes and run!"<BR>
>> <BR>
>> In-joke for NorCal folks.<BR>
><BR>
>My SO, at the time a recent marine biology grad from UCSC, offered to take<BR>
>me to see the elephant seals beat one another bloody and all those other <BR>
>things they do, for Valentine's Day (which is in prime elephant seal mating<BR>
>season). <BR>
><BR>
>She's sooooo romantic. *swoon*<BR>
><BR>
>However, I still insist that "ano nuevo" is Spanish for what comes after<BR>
>the phrase "I'm gonna rip you a..."<BR>
<BR>
	It does, which makes the concept what the two elephant seals might<BR>
be doing to each other all the more twisted (no, you _don't_ want to know<BR>
what images flashed through my mind)<BR>
	As for "ano nuevo", for those few members who don't speak any<BR>
spanish, the presence or lack of a tilde ( ~ ) over the n in 'ano' changes<BR>
the word from 'year' to a bodily orifice not normally mentioned in polite<BR>
conversation.  In every first-year spanish class, someone, when asking how<BR>
old their conversational partner is, will make that mistake.  The only<BR>
proper response to "Quantos anos tiene usted?" is a blank look and a terse<BR>
"Uno."  I don't know what is funnier:  seeing the expression on the face of<BR>
someone who knows the difference, or the laughter of everyone in the class<BR>
hep to the difference if the person responds  with their age. <BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't try to tell me _what_ to<BR>
think.<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3054<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3055</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 15 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3055<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
[none]<BR>
CT combat resolution Q: Untrained Weapon DMs? <BR>
Re: HERITIC!<BR>
Re: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness <BR>
Re: Drop Tanks (was: Re: Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: CT combat resolution Q: Untrained Weapon DMs? <BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Farscape Cancelled on YTV<BR>
When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Striker ROFs<BR>
Re: CT combat resolution Q: Untrained Weapon DMs? <BR>
Re: Mangled Spanish<BR>
Re: GT Gearhead-Q: Bay Weapon Stats?<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: GT Gearhead-Q: Bay Weapon Stats?<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
RE: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
RE: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
RE: The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:10:50 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
unsubscibe traveller<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:52:09 -0500<BR>
From: adouglas@optonline.net<BR>
Subject: CT combat resolution Q: Untrained Weapon DMs? <BR>
<BR>
Basic Classic Traveller question for today:<BR>
<BR>
In LBB 1, Characters and Combat, on page 36, it says:<BR>
<BR>
"Any character using a weapon in which he or she has no training is subject<BR>
to a penalty of -5 when attacking and +3 when defending [on the roll to<BR>
hit]. All player characters automatically have an expertise of 0 in all<BR>
weapons shown in this book. The zero value is sufficient to avoid the<BR>
no-expertise penalty, but it is not enough to provide a positive DM."<BR>
<BR>
This appears to give PCs a hefty advantage over NPCs. If all PCs<BR>
automatically have expertise of 0 in all weapons, then the DMs NEVER apply<BR>
to PCs. NPCs are another matter, evidently. If we assume that an armed NPC<BR>
has expertise of at least zero in the weapon they're carrying, once the<BR>
weapon is knocked out of their hand (or runs out of ammo, forcing them to<BR>
use something else) then they are suddenly saddled with this huge<BR>
disadvantage.<BR>
<BR>
Is this interpretation correct? What do you think?<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Douglas<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:33:11 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: HERITIC!<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 03:36:22 -0400 (EDT), Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>For the record, from a native of the area, the name is pronounced<BR>
>>"Puh-KIP-see"<BR>
<BR>
>Only the drug crazed djs from WPDH pronounced that way!<BR>
>It's "Po-keep-see."<BR>
<BR>
Well, maybe to the immediate natives - but to anyone from south of New<BR>
Hamburg, I gave the standard version.<BR>
<BR>
>A native, huh?  Did Al Sharpton come to town to defend a cheerleader from <BR>
>your high school?<BR>
>Or did you go to the one with the area's only parquat death? (points for <BR>
>identifying that school).<BR>
<BR>
Not _that_ native - I said 'of the area', not 'of the community'.<BR>
Poughkeepsie is part of the New York Metropolitan Area; I'm a native of the<BR>
City proper, with deep roots in southern Westchester.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, Sep 16 2000 7:04:56 GMT+1100<BR>
From: robocon@ozemail.com.au<BR>
Subject: Re: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness <BR>
<BR>
Michael Scanlon wrote :-<BR>
> Just a quick one, whats the coposition of say Jupiter's or Saturn's<BR>
> or Venus's atmosphere? Is it something tht can be coverted into fuel?<BR>
> Is it Hydrogen based? Just as a matter of keeping the Surfers happy.<BR>
<BR>
Gas giant atmospheres are rich in hydrogen, ammonia and methane.<BR>
Venus : nitrogen, carbon and sulphur oxides.<BR>
<BR>
There was talk about refuelling from stars a few days ago. I wonder<BR>
whether or not using electromagnetic snares for coronal material<BR>
would be viable (density is comparable to the solar wind). Scraping the<BR>
surface of a sun looks right out.<BR>
<BR>
Resuming lurk mode.<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:53:48 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Drop Tanks (was: Re: Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> TTBOMK, Drop tanks are not only accepted, they're canonical, though<BR>
> uncommon.  There _was_ a debate a while back over on rgf.gurps about<BR>
their<BR>
> use in combat, with the implication that they were being used in<BR>
> 'go-and-drop' (i.e., kick 'em off just after you come out of jump) mode,<BR>
> rather than 'drop-and-go' (i.e., kick 'em off just before you go into<BR>
jump)<BR>
> mode.  Go-and-drop is definitely _not_ canonical, and in fact is<BR>
> anticanonical.<BR>
<BR>
Although the Gazelle's drop tanks are semi-permanent. With the tanks it's<BR>
3G and Jump-3, but by dropping them it loses 25% of its volume, so its jump<BR>
drive can carry it 5 parsecs (on internal fuel), and it can pull 5G.<BR>
<BR>
So potentially a Gazelle might go-and-drop, if it were to come out of jump<BR>
right into a combat situation. Kicking off the nearly empty tanks to gain<BR>
an extra 2G of manoevre isn't to be laughed at.<BR>
<BR>
Alternatively, it might go-drop-go, since this would allow a J-3, then<BR>
after dumping the tanks a J-5 on internal fuel. Though it wouldn't have a<BR>
lot of power or manoevre fuel left when it arrived. (Note that none of<BR>
these manoevres require a 'drop tank' jump, as in all cases the jump is<BR>
being made from internally tanked fuel.<BR>
<BR>
(I admit, this is only from the TNE writeup - earlier canon may well<BR>
contradict.)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:36:23 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: William Molendyk <wmolendyk@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: CT combat resolution Q: Untrained Weapon DMs? <BR>
<BR>
- --- adouglas@optonline.net wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Basic Classic Traveller question for today:<BR>
> <BR>
> In LBB 1, Characters and Combat, on page 36, it<BR>
says:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Any character using a weapon in which he or she has<BR>
> no training is subject to a penalty of -5 when <BR>
> attacking and +3 when defending [on the roll to<BR>
> hit]. All player characters automatically have an<BR>
> expertise of 0 in all weapons shown in this book. <BR>
> The zero value is sufficient to avoid the<BR>
> no-expertise penalty, but it is not enough to<BR>
> provide a positive DM."<BR>
> <BR>
> This appears to give PCs a hefty advantage over <BR>
> NPCs. If all PCs automatically have expertise of 0 <BR>
> in all weapons, then the DMs NEVER apply to PCs. <BR>
> NPCs are another matter, evidently.<BR>
> snip < <BR>
> Is this interpretation correct? What do you think?<BR>
<BR>
That's the correct interpretation.  Unless you are<BR>
also using CITIZENS OF THE IMPERIUM.  IIRC, Doctors<BR>
and Bureaucrats do not get this ability and Barbarians<BR>
do not get it with respect to firearms.<BR>
<BR>
I have never had a problem with this rule and no GM I<BR>
have ever played under has had a problem with it. <BR>
We've always thought of it as one of the things that<BR>
make PCs adventurers.  This was modified somewhat once<BR>
MERCENARY came out however, heavy weapons and high<BR>
energy weapons (plasma and fusion guns) were not<BR>
covered by that rule, it only applied to the basic<BR>
weapon covered in Book 1.<BR>
<BR>
I know that there are two basic thoughts as to what<BR>
makes a good background for a beginning adventurer,<BR>
people who are "just plain folks" and those who are<BR>
from "the cut above" variety.  An adventure happens TO<BR>
the first type, usually against their wishes.  When it<BR>
is all over, they usually try to go back to their old<BR>
lives.  In game term they are the characters in<BR>
one-shots.  Adventurers, on the other hand, seek out<BR>
interesting (in the Chinese curse sense of the word)<BR>
situations and tend to be the second type.  They tend<BR>
to be better prepared, in terms of skills, then the<BR>
first type when it comes to meeting challenges.<BR>
<BR>
You also have to take into account the Book 1<BR>
character generation system.  In the absolute worst<BR>
case scenario you could end up with the following:<BR>
<BR>
You end up having to submit to the draft and roll a<BR>
'6': Other.<BR>
<BR>
First term: There is no commission or promotion roll<BR>
so you get two skills.  Rolling on the Personal<BR>
Development Table you roll a '6' twice -1 Social for a<BR>
total of -2.<BR>
<BR>
You then miss your reenlistment roll. Upon mustering<BR>
out you roll another '6' on the Benefits Table and get<BR>
- - (nothing).<BR>
<BR>
You then attempt to enlist in a service for a second<BR>
career and once again blow all the rolls.<BR>
<BR>
You end up with a character that has no skills, no<BR>
money, and  lowered Social Standing.  Welcome to the<BR>
Imperium adventurer!  At least they can use weapons<BR>
with the '0' level skill rule.  Why, if they take off<BR>
four game years and study real hard they may someday<BR>
qualify to be a low level thug.<BR>
<BR>
At least, in the first term of service, you are<BR>
guaranteed two skills or characteristic improvements<BR>
in the Navy or Merchants, three for Army, Marines and<BR>
Scouts.  After that you are only guaranteed one.  <BR>
<BR>
Giving PCs the '0' level weapons use rule is not that<BR>
big a concession.  Unless, of course, all your<BR>
adventures end up with a combat scene.  At which point<BR>
you have to ask yourself,'is it fair to my players to<BR>
have them fighting with non-proficient penalties<BR>
against trained NPCs who have skill levels and no<BR>
penalties?'  Let's face it, the main idea behind RPGs<BR>
is to have FUN cooperatively with the players, not to<BR>
screw them over (unless it is part of the plot).  This<BR>
goes for players as well.  Just because there is a<BR>
loophole in the rules does not mean it must be<BR>
exploited (like the above thug wannabe suddenly<BR>
picking up a PGMP-15 and using it at no penalty, hence<BR>
the house rule).<BR>
<BR>
   William Molendyk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:37:57 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:33:08 +1000<BR>
> From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
> Subject: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
> <BR>
> Does anyone know the process for making Liquid Hydrogen?<BR>
<BR>
Basically similar to how a refrigerator makes cold freon (or modern<BR>
substitute working fluid):  Repeated adiabatic expansion followed by<BR>
condensation and compression.  See for example<BR>
<BR>
  http://www.fwkc.com/encyclopedia/low/articles/c/c005002389f.html<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:44:44 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Farscape Cancelled on YTV<BR>
<BR>
Hi all.<BR>
<BR>
I know that there are a lot of fan of this show on this list, so I thought<BR>
I'd let you all know: YTV, the only place to see Farscape at present in<BR>
Canada, has decided not to buy any more episodes.  If you want to write<BR>
and complain (and I suggest you do), write to:<BR>
<BR>
info@ytv.com<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:54:08 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Basically similar to how a refrigerator makes cold freon (or modern<BR>
> substitute working fluid):  Repeated adiabatic expansion followed by<BR>
> condensation and compression.  See for example<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps more fun than making liquid hydrogen is (perhaps?) playing with it.<BR>
A few years ago, I had a supply of liquid nitrogen in my lab for cooling an<BR>
x-ray detector. In addition to the usual games of freezing Snickers bars and<BR>
related fun, one night while working late, a co-worker decided to see what<BR>
would happen if you splashed a large quantity of LN down the hallway. The LN<BR>
quickly condenses water vapor from the air, and made the security guards<BR>
think that there was a fire because of seeing the (water vapor) "smoke."<BR>
When they ran to check out the "fire," the vapor was gone, leaving extremely<BR>
puzzled guards.<BR>
<BR>
"Was there a fire here?"<BR>
<BR>
"Nope."<BR>
<BR>
This reminds me of another co-worker who managed to accidentially discover<BR>
the acoustic waveguide capabilities of a burried I-beam and blasted a nearby<BR>
urinal off the wall, but that would certainly be OFF TOPIC, so I won't say<BR>
any more.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:59:27 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker ROFs<BR>
<BR>
Steven Hudson Wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >  Sure, but why does a recoilless rifle - or a large CPR AT gun - using<BR>
 ><BR>
 >one round per phase (4 rpm!) get no penalties beyond the ref obviously<BR>
 >prohibiting multiple hits? Why could an AT laser likewise not fire one<BR>
 >seconds worth of energy accumulation per phase (15s.) and be covered by<BR>
 >the same rulings as those lower-TL weapons?<BR>
<BR>
I'd give the 1 shot/second laser the +1 "semi-auto" bonus, too.  Using <BR>
the bonus for ROFs of >9 per phase gives sort of a penalty to slower<BR>
firing weapons.  (The laser hit table for pulse lasers seems to imply<BR>
a "semi-auto" hit bonus for Striker weapons i.e. 2-3 lens pulse lasers).<BR>
<BR>
 >  For that matter, one round/phase cries out for negative hit modifiers<BR>
 >or restrictions on capabilities (beyond the obvious "no multiple<BR>
 >hits").<BR>
 >And what level of ROF (_not_ for an autofire bonus) should be the<BR>
 >default?<BR>
<BR>
Interesting idea.  It might be the case that low ROF weapon gunners are<BR>
taking careful aim (the lone crossbowman syndrome) before firing their <BR>
shot, however.<BR>
<BR>
 >  One suggestion might be a round every four seconds to allow<BR>
 >unpenalized<BR>
 >fire and use of the basic multiple hits rules. This happens to make a<BR>
 >75<BR>
 >round (MBT) basic load good for 20 phases/10 turns.<BR>
<BR>
So, for ROF per phase of <4 give a DM of -1?  Sounds OK to me.<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:59:46 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: CT combat resolution Q: Untrained Weapon DMs? <BR>
<BR>
adouglas wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Basic Classic Traveller question for today:<BR>
><BR>
> In LBB 1, Characters and Combat, on page 36, it says:<BR>
><BR>
> "Any character using a weapon in which he or she has no training is<BR>
subject<BR>
> to a penalty of -5 when attacking and +3 when defending [on the roll to<BR>
> hit]. All player characters automatically have an expertise of 0 in all<BR>
> weapons shown in this book. The zero value is sufficient to avoid the<BR>
> no-expertise penalty, but it is not enough to provide a positive DM."<BR>
><BR>
> This appears to give PCs a hefty advantage over NPCs. If all PCs<BR>
> automatically have expertise of 0 in all weapons, then the DMs NEVER apply<BR>
> to PCs. NPCs are another matter, evidently. If we assume that an armed NPC<BR>
> has expertise of at least zero in the weapon they're carrying, once the<BR>
> weapon is knocked out of their hand (or runs out of ammo, forcing them to<BR>
> use something else) then they are suddenly saddled with this huge<BR>
> disadvantage.<BR>
><BR>
> Is this interpretation correct? What do you think?<BR>
<BR>
Isn't there some rule somewhere which says that military experience is<BR>
enough to get you level-0 skill in everything? Or am I misremembering<BR>
something?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:26:21 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Mangled Spanish<BR>
<BR>
Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com> sez:<BR>
<BR>
>As for "ano nuevo", for those few members who don't speak any<BR>
>spanish, the presence or lack of a tilde ( ~ ) over the n in 'ano' changes<BR>
>the word from 'year' to a bodily orifice not normally mentioned in polite<BR>
>conversation.<BR>
<BR>
 It (the beach, that is) is typically pronounced "Anyo Nuevo", at least in my <BR>
experience, so the locals do have it right at least part time. I havnet't <BR>
checked the maps, though.<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:37:56 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Gearhead-Q: Bay Weapon Stats?<BR>
<BR>
This reply has also been sent to the newsgroups.<BR>
On 12 Sep 2000 22:51:27 -0400, I wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> This has probably been asked and answered before, but if so I have<BR>
> not seen it. Simply put, the bay weapons listed in the Armaments<BR>
> Table on GT156 are much heavier than allowed for by GURPS Vehicles.<BR>
> The density for nearly all mechanical and electronic equipment in<BR>
> GURPS Vehicles is 50 pounds per cubic foot, which works out to 12.5<BR>
> stons/dton. The only two major exceptions to this are power cell<BR>
> energy banks (which are twice that) and power slices (one third that<BR>
> due to long term access space). Therefore the contents of a 10 dton<BR>
> weapons bay should mass a maximum of 250 stons (and that's only if<BR>
> it is filled with rE-cells), but all three bay weapons are well in<BR>
> excess of this. What gives? Are the weapons too big, the bays too<BR>
> small or this just a CT -> GT translation problem?<BR>
<BR>
I crossposted the above message to the rec.games.frp.gurps and<BR>
sjgames.gurps.traveller newsgroups, the Traveller and Gurpsnet-l<BR>
mailing lists and the JTAS Starships/Vehicle Design posting board so<BR>
it wasn't *too* surprising I got a lot of answers, but the great<BR>
debate it started in the last venue *was* a bit startling. If I<BR>
understand correctly, while all parties agree that the Armaments<BR>
Table on GT156 is wrong (bay weapon modules should all be 50 dtons),<BR>
they disagree on whether the bay itself should be a 50 dton internal<BR>
module (as per canonical CT) or a 50 dton external turret with a 10<BR>
dton internal rotation space (the official[?] GT position).<BR>
<BR>
Much of this acrimony seems a bit premature. I have found only 3 GT<BR>
ships so far that have been designed with bays (the Lienjadl-class<BR>
Battle Cruiser (AI55), the Weakhto-class Cruiser (AII57) and the<BR>
Inheritor Armed Merchant Cruiser (AIII127)) so any changes to the<BR>
original specs would cause very few errata for officially published<BR>
vessels. I suppose a lot of fan built GT ships would take a hit if a<BR>
change was made, but then it would be easier to translate existing<BR>
CT ships into GT terms.<BR>
<BR>
For now I tend to favor the official GT solution even though it does<BR>
raise the "slush" volume from 3% to 5%, but one thing still bugs me.<BR>
On the GT155 sidebar it says "Bays are limited rotation" turrets,<BR>
meaning that according to VE16 the rotation space of a 50 dton bay<BR>
is only 5 dtons. What happened to the other 5 dtons?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |  The puppy in Main Street is dehydrated. FNORD!  |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:40:38 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Perhaps more fun than making liquid hydrogen is (perhaps?) playing with it.<BR>
<BR>
Hydrogen being a bit more reactive than nitrogen, playing with it may be <BR>
a bit riskier.  More like 'stupid tricks with liquid oxygen'.<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of some engineering contests having to do with 'fastest time to<BR>
start a barbeque'.  Apparently the fire department felt that pouring liquid<BR>
oxygen on charcoal was creating explosives, and put a stop to it.  However,<BR>
the time from coals to a fully lit fire was under a second...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:43:57 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Gearhead-Q: Bay Weapon Stats?<BR>
<BR>
Dalton Spence writes:<BR>
<BR>
> For now I tend to favor the official GT solution even though it does<BR>
> raise the "slush" volume from 3% to 5%, but one thing still bugs me.<BR>
> On the GT155 sidebar it says "Bays are limited rotation" turrets,<BR>
> meaning that according to VE16 the rotation space of a 50 dton bay<BR>
> is only 5 dtons. What happened to the other 5 dtons?<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like an erratum ;).  Change that to 'full rotation', and problem solved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:08:15 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Reminds me of some engineering contests having to do with 'fastest time to<BR>
> start a barbeque'.  Apparently the fire department felt that pouring<BR>
liquid<BR>
> oxygen on charcoal was creating explosives, and put a stop to it.<BR>
However,<BR>
> the time from coals to a fully lit fire was under a second...<BR>
<BR>
See, for example, http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/<BR>
<BR>
This technique was apparently enough to capture the Ig Nobel Prixe in<BR>
Chemistry (1996).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:18:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> Reminds me of some engineering contests having to do with 'fastest time<BR>
to<BR>
> start a barbeque'.  Apparently the fire department felt that pouring<BR>
liquid<BR>
> oxygen on charcoal was creating explosives, and put a stop to it.<BR>
However,<BR>
> the time from coals to a fully lit fire was under a second...<BR>
<BR>
George Gobel?<BR>
<BR>
He was my engineering hero, until he was rather overtaken by Troy Hurboise.<BR>
(He of the Grizzly Project)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:15:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> Reminds me of some engineering contests having to do with 'fastest time to<BR>
> start a barbeque'.  Apparently the fire department felt that pouring<BR>
liquid<BR>
> oxygen on charcoal was creating explosives, and put a stop to it.<BR>
However,<BR>
> the time from coals to a fully lit fire was under a second...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Much great fun<BR>
<BR>
see:  http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu photos and movies!<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:25:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin writes:<BR>
<BR>
> See, for example, http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/<BR>
<BR>
I had the feeling people would be familiar with this.<BR>
<BR>
Incidentally, anyone know what would happen if you poured liquid hydrogen on<BR>
charcoal, in the presence of a heat source?  I suspect you might get a lot <BR>
of hot methane (and then a fireball as it burned in the atmosphere) but <BR>
I really don't know.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:39:53 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
At 20:40 -0400 14/9/00, "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>I thought we conclusively showed that LAAW rockets were the de rigeur<BR>
>Traveller weapon these days?<BR>
><BR>
>Blow up not only your team-mate, but both of the people trying to shoot him<BR>
>too AND set fire to your own legs into the bargain!<BR>
><BR>
>Mmm....backblast.<BR>
<BR>
Well, you did go and play GT when we ran the Death match which <BR>
included an Adelie armed character taking on another with a <BR>
flamethrower....<BR>
<BR>
And then there was the Plasma Blunderbus ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:49:55 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: [TNS] Fuel Price Protest on Imperial Worlds<BR>
<BR>
At 3:36 -0400 15/9/00, : "Derrick Jones" <BR>
<dojones.whitestar@btinternet.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>GT? What's that? The post made perfect sense if you take into consideration<BR>
>the twenty odd years of Traveller economics and background information, where<BR>
>infinite duration power plants don't exist. To try to 'debunk' such <BR>
>a post on the basis<BR>
>of it not fitting something dreamed up five minutes ago <BR>
>(figuratively speaking) is<BR>
>ludicrous. Would I not be quite right in assuming that since the GT <BR>
>is a variant,<BR>
>(although the only current Traveller published and fair play to <BR>
>them), posts not<BR>
>specifically marked as GT are not meant to be relevant under GT rules???<BR>
<BR>
T4 is alive and well (ish) as BITS books all have stats for it, and <BR>
CT is in print ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:40:02 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
Doug Berry said:<BR>
  <BR>
>  >>So, I take it that you are going to follow the tradition introduced in <BR>
the<BR>
>  >>"Family d'Alembert" series and have Strephon abdicate in favour of <BR>
Ciencia,<BR>
> <BR>
>  >>maybe on her 32nd birthday in 1121?? He'll be 71...  ;-) ;-)<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  >y'see -- this is how rumors get started (smileys or no smileys). Why does <BR>
a<BR>
>  >question about birthdays mean that I am going to have Strephon abdicate?<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Because we're a rabid bunch of fanboys (and girls) who delight in coming up<BR>
>  with weird plot twists.<BR>
<BR>
S'OK for you to say, but Im the one who will have to deal with 85 e-mails <BR>
pleading with me to not have Strephon abdicate because it will upset their <BR>
campaigns, 4 who think it's a great idea, and 1 that wants to know if he can <BR>
abdicate in favor of a penguin. Not to mention the people who will claim the <BR>
fact that I have not specifically denied the abdication is prime facia <BR>
evidence that I'm going to do it. I haven't specifically denied that I plan <BR>
to have the Solomani cross-fertilize all Newts with guava trees either, <BR>
y;know . . .<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:09:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
> Well, you did go and play GT when we ran the Death match which<BR>
> included an Adelie armed character taking on another with a<BR>
> flamethrower....<BR>
<BR>
Ahem! I did go and fill in a ref slot since everybody else was scared of<BR>
GURPS! <grin><BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:19:42 -0500<BR>
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
Naaaaa You have it all wrong.. Cannon is what we shoot at each other when we<BR>
discuss female penguin/aslan crossbreeds who were soft shooes when the<BR>
practice acts of p******.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 10:28 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 10:24 PM 9/14/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>I noticed a lot of messages about "canon" rules.  What is that?<BR>
<BR>
The body of Traveller background that is accepted by the majority as<BR>
official parts of the game environment.  We rarely discuss canonical rules,<BR>
per say, but instead argue about elements of the setting.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:24:21 -0500<BR>
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
IMTU that is how I explained it..<BR>
<BR>
The Marines land, beat the heck out of the place, and then turn it over to<BR>
the regular Army O. The army is used for defense and protracted land<BR>
battles.<BR>
<BR>
Also... IMTU the army usally is not protected forces capiable (or at least<BR>
to the extent of the Marines)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson<BR>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 12:52 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry writes:<BR>
> At 01:55 AM 9/15/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>
> >Douglas E. Berry<BR>
> >not all dressed in BD, or _all_ TL 15 regiments are routinely equipped<BR>
with<BR>
> >BDs. I know which one I consider the most likely.<BR>
><BR>
> Fair enough, except I was directed to use the information in JTAS 12 which<BR>
> declared in now uncertain terms that all marines are trained in, and<BR>
> equipped with Battledress.<BR>
<BR>
I suspect that all TL 15 space-mobile combat regiments _are_ routinely<BR>
equipped with at least light BD.  The increase in capability is generally<BR>
greater than the increase in cost, at least for troops who need to be<BR>
transported long distances (and are thus very expensive already).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3055<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3056</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 16 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3056<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Carnivory<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: CT combat resolution Q: Untrained Weapon DMs? <BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Bloody Heritic!<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: Bloody Heritic!<BR>
Re: Striker ROFs<BR>
Re: force fields<BR>
Striker Miniatures<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Known Space and the Milky Way Galaxy<BR>
Re: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness <BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Known Space and the Milky Way Galaxy<BR>
RE: CT Untrained Weapon DMs<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:26:38 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
> The warrant for Norris was carried by 9519 Markashi (not by 9514 Kinunir).<BR>
> The loss of the Kinunir was separate. At the time "Kinunir" was written,<BR>
> Markashi had not been lost.<BR>
<BR>
Let me be the first to be a smarta** by asking if that's because the<BR>
Markashi will be lost thousands of years into the future...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:46:23 -0500<BR>
From: "tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
IIRC that the BBQ was not in shape to BBQ anything after they were done<BR>
however.. ISTR that they lost that contest and some one with a more<BR>
conventional method (flame thrower?) won.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson<BR>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 5:41 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Cc: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Perhaps more fun than making liquid hydrogen is (perhaps?) playing with<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
Hydrogen being a bit more reactive than nitrogen, playing with it may be<BR>
a bit riskier.  More like 'stupid tricks with liquid oxygen'.<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of some engineering contests having to do with 'fastest time to<BR>
start a barbeque'.  Apparently the fire department felt that pouring liquid<BR>
oxygen on charcoal was creating explosives, and put a stop to it.  However,<BR>
the time from coals to a fully lit fire was under a second...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:42:36 -0500<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
At 08:36 PM 9/14/00, you wrote:<BR>
>Ok, I was naughty, and did a little web surfing at work.<BR>
><BR>
> From http://www.msnbc.com/news/459341.asp?cp1=1#BODY<BR>
><BR>
>"STILL EXPENSIVE<BR>
<BR>
Snip<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Hydrogen's only exhaust is water vapor. That means no more clouds of<BR>
>carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and other pollutants that are the<BR>
>byproducts of gasoline and are believed to contribute to global<BR>
>warming."<BR>
><BR>
>I dunno how many litres there are in a gallon... I'll convert that<BR>
>later.<BR>
<BR>
I hate to break this to the guys over at MSNBC, but water is a greenhouse <BR>
gas too.<BR>
<BR>
I will spare everyone my CO2/H2O rant.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:24:02 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Carnivory<BR>
<BR>
> Interestingly, that nice, well-aged steak we buy in a restaurant is one that<BR>
>  we probably would never buy in the market.  Partially rotted for flavor and<BR>
>  tenderness--yum!  Fresh meat pales in comparison.<BR>
<BR>
My parents had a large, chest-type freezer, and every year my dad would drive <BR>
40 miles to a farmer who ran a butchershop. It was like getting a lobster -- <BR>
you went out to the feedlot, picked out your angus* and a week later you came <BR>
back and picked up the meet. The week was so the meat could "hang" for a few <BR>
days and acquire a better taste.<BR>
<BR>
Friend of mine told me a common question in his native land was "How lonto <BR>
you jerk your pheasants?" which meant how long do you hang them up after <BR>
gutting them before cooking. A common answer was "By the tail feathers, and <BR>
when it drops to the ground it is ready." A less common answer was "By the <BR>
neck, and when etc."<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
* "I have to make it through the week, as best as I know how,<BR>
I see her every Sunday morning, she's my sacred cow . . ."<BR>
         _Angus Dei_<BR>
         P.D.Q. Bach<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:49:51 -0500<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
At 06:40 PM 9/15/00, you wrote:<BR>
>Doug Berry said:<BR>
><BR>
>  I haven't specifically denied that I plan<BR>
>to have the Solomani cross-fertilize all Newts with guava trees either,<BR>
>y;know . . .<BR>
><BR>
>LKW<BR>
<BR>
Good G-d! What twisted plan have those d**m Sollies come up with now? What <BR>
do you think it all means?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Okay, I'm shutting up.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 12:10:08 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: CT combat resolution Q: Untrained Weapon DMs? <BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <adouglas@optonline.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>; <traveller@aol.com><BR>
Cc: <wcbm@optonline.net>; <Charles.Mitchell@disney.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 5:52:am<BR>
Subject: CT combat resolution Q: Untrained Weapon DMs?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Basic Classic Traveller question for today:<BR>
><BR>
> In LBB 1, Characters and Combat, on page 36, it says:<BR>
><BR>
> "Any character using a weapon in which he or she has no training is<BR>
subject<BR>
> to a penalty of -5 when attacking and +3 when defending [on the roll to<BR>
> hit]. All player characters automatically have an expertise of 0 in all<BR>
> weapons shown in this book. The zero value is sufficient to avoid the<BR>
> no-expertise penalty, but it is not enough to provide a positive DM."<BR>
><BR>
> This appears to give PCs a hefty advantage over NPCs. If all PCs<BR>
> automatically have expertise of 0 in all weapons, then the DMs NEVER apply<BR>
> to PCs. NPCs are another matter, evidently. If we assume that an armed NPC<BR>
> has expertise of at least zero in the weapon they're carrying, once the<BR>
> weapon is knocked out of their hand (or runs out of ammo, forcing them to<BR>
> use something else) then they are suddenly saddled with this huge<BR>
> disadvantage.<BR>
><BR>
> Is this interpretation correct? What do you think?<BR>
><BR>
> Andrew Douglas<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Good question that man!<BR>
<BR>
Funny, I never looked at it like that... but I simply applied such penalties<BR>
as I desired to NPC's.  I assumed that if a bookish scientist PC didn't like<BR>
guns and was adamant in playing like that, then the PC could voluntarily<BR>
take the negative DM for roleplaying purposes (yep, I have had players do<BR>
this in all RPG's I have played - take negatives for the purpose of<BR>
roleplaying that is).  But I otherwise assumed that Mr Bookish, if he didn't<BR>
wish such a negative DM with weapons, could simply say to Mr Testosterone<BR>
the ex-marine(or whatever), "Could you give me a run-down on how that thing<BR>
works?" and thus, negate the penalty because he would be given a<BR>
semi-thorough "lessen" on many/all types of weapons... enough to fire and<BR>
basic-IA one when needed...<BR>
<BR>
For NPC's ex-police/military never had negative DM's for the obvious<BR>
reasons, but if Mr Bookish was a closet action movie enthusiast with a tonne<BR>
of literature and visits to a local shooting club under his belt (thus<BR>
knowing just enough to load, fire, and basic-IA a nug), he too avoided the<BR>
negative DM's.  Same for muggers, taxi/bus-drivers, council workers,<BR>
lawyers, doctors, pig-farmers (or equivalent of), and basically, everyone<BR>
else in MTU...  That reading that, if the NPC character's "make-up" included<BR>
that he could use a nug without neg DM's, then he could.  For that matter, I<BR>
also had things like contracted clerks to police and military<BR>
weapon-oriented positions that suffered the neg DM because they neither had<BR>
the time or inclination to take it further ("I've been around these all my<BR>
life, but sadly, I don't know how to use it...")<BR>
<BR>
Go with what you feel is right, that's how it usually works.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:11:10 -0500<BR>
From: "Matthew W. Helton" <mwhelton@cox-internet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
Let's not forget NOx (Oxides of Nitrogen) generated as byproducts of<BR>
combustion assuming your Hydrogen IC engine is running on "normal air" and<BR>
not LOX.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Richard Wilson" <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 7:42 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 08:36 PM 9/14/00, you wrote:<BR>
> >Ok, I was naughty, and did a little web surfing at work.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > From http://www.msnbc.com/news/459341.asp?cp1=1#BODY<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"STILL EXPENSIVE<BR>
><BR>
> Snip<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >Hydrogen's only exhaust is water vapor. That means no more clouds of<BR>
> >carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and other pollutants that are the<BR>
> >byproducts of gasoline and are believed to contribute to global<BR>
> >warming."<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I dunno how many litres there are in a gallon... I'll convert that<BR>
> >later.<BR>
><BR>
> I hate to break this to the guys over at MSNBC, but water is a greenhouse<BR>
> gas too.<BR>
><BR>
> I will spare everyone my CO2/H2O rant.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Richard Wilson<BR>
><BR>
> rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
><BR>
> ========================================================================<BR>
> Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
> strive to overcome.<BR>
> ========================================================================<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:40:41 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Naaaaa You have it all wrong.. Cannon is what we shoot at each other when we<BR>
> discuss female penguin/aslan crossbreeds who were soft shooes when the<BR>
> practice acts of p******.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
with or without drop tanks?<BR>
<BR>
Other rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 04:45:17 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> Incidentally, anyone know what would happen if you poured liquid hydrogen on<BR>
> charcoal, in the presence of a heat source?  I suspect you might get a lot<BR>
> of hot methane (and then a fireball as it burned in the atmosphere) but<BR>
> I really don't know.<BR>
<BR>
If you have oxygen present (as in 'air'), you'd get an explosion<BR>
instead. Remember chemistry classes? Mix oxygen and hydrogen, ignite...<BR>
BOOM.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 23:19:51 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Bloody Heritic!<BR>
<BR>
>Not _that_ native - I said 'of the area', not 'of the community'.<BR>
>Poughkeepsie is part of the New York Metropolitan Area; I'm a native of the<BR>
>City proper, with deep roots in southern Westchester.<BR>
<BR>
A two hour Metro-Rail ride makes you part of the NYC Metro Area?<BR>
Bah!  You probably don't even know the good bars in New Paltz!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
           You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication<BR>
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 03:34:07 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Richard Wilson" <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 2:49 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:40 PM 9/15/00, you wrote:<BR>
> >Doug Berry said:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >  I haven't specifically denied that I plan<BR>
> >to have the Solomani cross-fertilize all Newts with guava trees either,<BR>
> >y;know . . .<BR>
> ><BR>
> >LKW<BR>
><BR>
> Good G-d! What twisted plan have those d**m Sollies come up with now? What<BR>
> do you think it all means?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Okay, I'm shutting up.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
I don't *bee-leeve* it!<BR>
<BR>
<UK Joke...><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:43:20 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/15/00 11:43:58 PM !!!First Boot!!!, GDWGAMES@aol.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  I plan <BR>
 to have the Solomani cross-fertilize all Newts with guava trees either, <BR>
 y;know . . . >><BR>
<BR>
of course if the Solomani scientists in quetion are fans of old 1950's <BR>
Hollywood Sci-fi movies they could try it...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:16:32 -0400<BR>
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Bloody Heritic!<BR>
<BR>
At 11:19 PM 09/15/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Not _that_ native - I said 'of the area', not 'of the community'.<BR>
>>Poughkeepsie is part of the New York Metropolitan Area; I'm a native of the<BR>
>>City proper, with deep roots in southern Westchester.<BR>
><BR>
>A two hour Metro-Rail ride makes you part of the NYC Metro Area?<BR>
>Bah!  You probably don't even know the good bars in New Paltz!<BR>
<BR>
Consider that upstaters, e.g., Rome and Utica residents, think of the City <BR>
as being in another country...<BR>
<BR>
OBTRAV:  What are the views of the "locals" on the periphery - the Solomani <BR>
Frontier, the Spinward Marches, etc., of the loonies in Capital?  The <BR>
"local" non-Imperium systems nearby are probably more common to them than <BR>
the home systems...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bill Rutherford<BR>
worj@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:57:48 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker ROFs<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Striker ROFs<BR>
...<BR>
> >  For that matter, one round/phase cries out for negative hit modifiers<BR>
> >or restrictions on capabilities (beyond the obvious "no multiple hits").<BR>
> >And what level of ROF (_not_ for an autofire bonus) should be the<BR>
> >default?<BR>
><BR>
>Interesting idea.  It might be the case that low ROF weapon gunners are<BR>
>taking careful aim (the lone crossbowman syndrome) before firing their <BR>
>shot, however.<BR>
<BR>
  True, which begs the question of why (e.g.) all bolt-action rifles don't<BR>
have their ammo consumption quartered at the longer ranges where multiple<BR>
hits become impossible :(<BR>
<BR>
  I'm comfortable with the careful aim explanation, but feel that a cost<BR>
is justified, at least in game terms (see below).<BR>
<BR>
> >  One suggestion might be a round every four seconds to allow unpenalized<BR>
> >fire and use of the basic multiple hits rules. This happens to make a 75<BR>
> >round (MBT) basic load good for 20 phases/10 turns.<BR>
><BR>
>So, for ROF per phase of <4 give a DM of -1?  Sounds OK to me.<BR>
<BR>
  Or for those who prefer not to fiddle a fundamental such as the 8/10/12<BR>
hit numbers, at least either penalize or prohibit firing at a target during<BR>
its Friendly Fire Phase (FFP) per 1:31.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:41:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: force fields<BR>
<BR>
In mail, rgd@bigfoot.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
>> Except that given the sheer *size* of Traveller's "Known Space" and the<BR>
>> likely advantages of some sorts of tech, the social restrictions merely<BR>
>> explain why the stuff isn't used in *some* places. <BR>
><BR>
> Hmm.  So we're left with either not using the tech, or handwave <BR>
> limitations to keep the universe Travellerish that may be <BR>
> unsatisfactory to some players/refs.  <BR>
> It seems this could come up a bit - nanotech, high biotech, post-<BR>
> Gibsonian cyber-nets and other SF ideas that came after Travellers <BR>
> formation. In addition to shields/force fields and other more <BR>
> 'operatic' tech.  A lot of things that could reasonably break the <BR>
> Traveller feel if allowed and carried to logical extrapolations, no?  <BR>
><BR>
> It'd be interesting to see a list of these things and either the <BR>
> reasons to not include it or the handwaves to use for Traveller-type <BR>
> universes.<BR>
<BR>
Glad to hear you volunteering to maintain the list. <eg><BR>
<BR>
>> Well, Dune type shields have interesting counterbalancing properties. A<BR>
>> few laser armed robots, and Dune-type shields become a *real* bad idea.<BR>
>> :-)<BR>
><BR>
> Ouch!<BR>
<BR>
Just the sort of thing players will come up with if you don't think of<BR>
it first.<BR>
  <BR>
>> It's more likely to allow tractor and pressor beams. Which change a<BR>
>> *lot* of the Traveller universe.<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm, even if the range is limited to that of grav plates? (i.e. one <BR>
> deck height?)  <BR>
<BR>
Well, the way some of us avoid these problems is by having artificial<BR>
gravity exist between *paired* plates. Makes life a lot simpler.<BR>
    <BR>
>> Not really. If you can get something close to c, it'll arrive rather<BR>
>> close to any possible warning. And we are talking planet-busters here.<BR>
>> You can't target anything *movable* with enough accuracy. So you target<BR>
>> planets or asteroids. And hit them hard enough to ruin them.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> At 1% of c, it takes takes 5.8 *days* to get from 1000 AU to the target.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> At 99% it takes 1.4 *hours*. <BR>
<BR>
I must have screwed up the math somewhere. That figure is *totally*<BR>
wrong. But I'm too tried to try figuring the right answer/<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> It only takes 13.9 *hours* at 6 g to reach 1% of c.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> It takes 58.5 days to reach .99 c (actually, it'll take much longer due<BR>
>> to relativistic effects). <BR>
><BR>
> The article/thread I read was talking about using asteroid sized <BR>
> projectiles that had to be sent across the intervening parsec(s) <BR>
> between warring neighbor systems, in which case there'd be lots of<BR>
> time to retaliate and hence a MAD stalemate.  But if they use a smaller<BR>
> object in the target system, then you're right.<BR>
>  <BR>
>> Yep. We generally assume MAD type restrictions. The problem is that any<BR>
>> terrorist group that can get a scout ship can destroy a planet.<BR>
><BR>
> Yikes.  I had thought it'd take a mass much bigger than a scout ship, <BR>
> but I suppose there's a lot of energy even in 100dt going at .9c.  <BR>
> Ugly.<BR>
<BR>
100 tons = 100e6 kg. <BR>
<BR>
1e8 * (3e8)^2 = 9e24 <BR>
<BR>
That's over 2 *billion* megatons. Will into the "dinosaur killer" range.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 23:13:56 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Striker Miniatures<BR>
<BR>
I just received my first order of micro-scale figures from Steve Hudson. The<BR>
figures are from Scotia, so they are not exactly the highest quality.<BR>
Actually, they are nowhere near the quality you get from GHQ.<BR>
<BR>
Being more than slightly impatient, I couldn't wait to paint a few, and<BR>
after painting the first set of 20 figures, I have to admit that they don't<BR>
look bad at all. So for $0.25 (or half that if they are uglier than usual)<BR>
per figure, you can get a collection of figures which are perfectly good for<BR>
Striker gaming.<BR>
<BR>
So if you are looking for a way to get those wierd vehicles you need for<BR>
Striker, but GHQ never has, drop Steve a line.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:39:26 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
LKW writes<BR>
>1 that wants to know if he can<BR>
>abdicate in favor of a penguin.<BR>
<BR>
Doug!  Stop bothering Loren!<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:39:42 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
One issue has been that, even if you can't jump with alternate<BR>
fuel storage, why don't we she ships with fuel for subsequent<BR>
jumps in smaller storage types.<BR>
<BR>
One possible change would to abandon the idea that fuel is<BR>
stored as X dtons of liquid hydrogen and assume that a ship<BR>
uses however much hydrogen you can store in X dtons of alternate<BR>
storage for the same performance.  Canon is clear on storage<BR>
being liquid hydrogen, but not anything really depends on it...<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 18:35:53 +1000<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" <NarellePark@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Known Space and the Milky Way Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, I have seen a Travelker web-page which had a map which indicated the<BR>
location of Known Space (including the Zhodani Core route) with respect to<BR>
the Milky Way galaxy, but for the life of me, can't find it again.  Anybody<BR>
know where to find it (if it still exists)?<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
<BR>
Jeff AKA Academican Boris Kalashnikov<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:02:08 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness <BR>
<BR>
robocon@ozemail.com.au [Robert O'Connor] wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Michael Scanlon wrote :-<BR>
> > Just a quick one, whats the coposition of say Jupiter's or Saturn's<BR>
> > or Venus's atmosphere? Is it something that can be coverted into fuel?<BR>
> > Is it Hydrogen based? Just as a matter of keeping the Surfers happy.<BR>
> <BR>
> Gas giant atmospheres are rich in hydrogen, ammonia and methane.<BR>
> Venus : nitrogen, carbon and sulphur oxides.<BR>
> <BR>
> There was talk about refuelling from stars a few days ago. I wonder<BR>
> whether or not using electromagnetic snares for coronal material<BR>
> would be viable (density is comparable to the solar wind). <BR>
<BR>
If you did this then a TL 16 Darrian Special Branch ship, which<BR>
(in TNE at least) has a repulsor/tractor, might be able to manage<BR>
this stunt. This would help explain why those TL 16 ships are<BR>
so good, maybe they can jump in very near a star, on the side <BR>
opposite the planet to remain undetected, refuel and jump out<BR>
without ever encountering the SDB's at the main world or the gas<BR>
giants.<BR>
<BR>
> Scraping the surface of a sun looks right out.<BR>
<BR>
At a sufficiently high TL it should be possible. Adv. 12 clearly establishes<BR>
that regular Traveller ships can take very high pressures and high<BR>
temperatures. As TL (and materials science) advances there is a point<BR>
where ships should be able to refuel from stars. I'm simply not sure <BR>
what TL it would take.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:57:50 +0100<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
You start with a chemical which has a not too cold boiling point, say<BR>
- -15 C and cool this to liquid. You then use this liquid to cool another<BR>
with a lower boiling point say -30 C, you then use this to cool another<BR>
at say -45 C and on and on and on and on until you get down to the<BR>
temperature you need for Liquid Hydrogen. You also get a lot of other<BR>
liquid chemicals as a by product.<BR>
<BR>
As long as you can cast metal cylinders you can store lots of these<BR>
liquid chemicals at room temperature and pressure. This is thus a TL 1 procedure.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure there are other way to produce liquid Hydrogen, but this was<BR>
the first way it was done.<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Ewan<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Does anyone know the process for making Liquid Hydrogen?<BR>
> <BR>
> More or less.<BR>
> <BR>
> You cool it, first by compression, cooling of the compressed gas, and<BR>
> allowing the compressed gas to expand (which cools it further).<BR>
> <BR>
> Enough stages of this will get the gas pretty cold. I *think* you can<BR>
> get LH2 this way, but if not, you start using other tricks.<BR>
> <BR>
> Check any good book on cryogenics.<BR>
> <BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,<BR>
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,<BR>
   Network Services                   Their's but to do and die:<BR>
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death<BR>
                                      Rode the six hundred.<BR>
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR>
<BR>
   #include<stddisclaimer.h><BR>
<BR>
   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR>
<BR>
   University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 08:33:45 -0500<BR>
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrod@santech.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Known Space and the Milky Way Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
At 06:35 PM 9/16/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
>IIRC, I have seen a Travelker web-page which had a map which indicated the<BR>
>location of Known Space (including the Zhodani Core route) with respect to<BR>
>the Milky Way galaxy, but for the life of me, can't find it again.  Anybody<BR>
>know where to find it (if it still exists)?<BR>
><BR>
>Regards,<BR>
><BR>
>Jeff AKA Academican Boris Kalashnikov<BR>
Security Leak Magazine published this back in the mid 80's.  Last year the <BR>
owner of the magazine put the 5 issues up on the net, along with the <BR>
promise of putting up the 6th unpublished issue.<BR>
<BR>
The particular page you are probably looking for is:<BR>
http://www.securityleak.net/slm/issue_05/scans/slm05_05.jpg<BR>
<BR>
Hope this helps.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jimmy Simpson<BR>
	nimrodd@mail.com<BR>
"Cannot say.<BR>
  Saying, I would know.<BR>
  Do not know.<BR>
  So cannot say."<BR>
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:40:26 -0400<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: CT Untrained Weapon DMs<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Douglas writes:<BR>
>Basic Classic Traveller question for today:<BR>
>In LBB 1, Characters and Combat, on page 36, it says:<BR>
>"Any character using a weapon in which he or she has no training is subject<BR>
>to a penalty of -5 when attacking and +3 when defending<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>This appears to give PCs a hefty advantage over NPCs. If all PCs<BR>
>automatically have expertise of 0 in all weapons, then the DMs NEVER apply<BR>
>to PCs. NPCs are another matter, evidently.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Is this interpretation correct? What do you think?<BR>
<BR>
	That is how I interpreted it, but that is not how I run it.  I have a<BR>
	sliding scale of "unskilled" penalties.  For example ex-Army get -0<BR>
	when using any Gun Combat, and -5 when using Vacc Suit.  Ex-Navy get<BR>
	-0 when using Vacc Suit, and -4 when using Gun Combat.  IIRC.  If a<BR>
	character picks up a weapon as a Mustering Out benefit, then I allow<BR>
	them -0 if they are not already skilled.  I find that even players<BR>
	with louzy Dex and -4 to hit with a gun can pick up a shotgun and have<BR>
	a reasonable chance of knocking down a thug (though such a character<BR>
	should, like most everyone, avoid firefights with Imperial Marines).<BR>
	Given that most Marines are not very good at piloting a ship, I find<BR>
	this kind of penalization reasonable.  My players have not complained,<BR>
	at least not yet.  Just my cr. 0.02.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3056<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3057</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/16/00 9:54:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 16 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3057<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
Re: Known Space and the Milky Way Galaxy<BR>
Re : Wilderness refuelling (star skimming)<BR>
HGS 1.02 build 5<BR>
Re: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness<BR>
Re: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness<BR>
Still Looking For STRIKER SPREADSHEET<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: More Human than Human<BR>
Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
Re: Known Space and the Milky Way Galaxy<BR>
Re: Striker Miniatures<BR>
Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
Re: Wilderness refuelling (star skimming)<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:12:58 +0100<BR>
From: Ewan Quibell <E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Doshes - (was:  Basic GM question: )<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Ewan Quibell wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >         Don't think it was from "A Clockwork Orange."  The old drunk used<BR>
> > > "Cotter" on two occasions  while panhandling ("...can you spare me some<BR>
> > > cotter, me brother?")<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Copper" referring to the copper quarter, half, one, and two pence/d<BR>
> > coins. Dosh just means money, don't know where the word originates from.<BR>
> <BR>
> It was indeed 'cutter', per the nadsat dictionary in the novel (and the<BR>
> novel itself)<BR>
> <BR>
> See: http://home.earthlink.net/~snowboards/aco/nadsat.html<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
I have to say I haven't read the book, and took the above from the film<BR>
where the line from the old drunk "can you spare me some copper, me<BR>
brother?" makes complete sense for the time period.<BR>
<BR>
Looks like I'll have to invest in the book.<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Ewan<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
   Ewan Quibell                       Their's not to make reply,<BR>
   Senior Communications Engineer     Their's not to reason why,<BR>
   Network Services                   Their's but to do and die:<BR>
   University of Brighton             Into the valley of Death<BR>
                                      Rode the six hundred.<BR>
   E.D.Quibell@brighton.ac.uk              Alfred, Lord Tennyson<BR>
<BR>
   #include<stddisclaimer.h><BR>
<BR>
   My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic license<BR>
<BR>
   University of Brighton - Sunday Times' University of the Year<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:44:54 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Known Space and the Milky Way Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
A quick scan of the Netscape Directory category for Traveller brought the<BR>
answer!<BR>
<BR>
http://herons-reach.homepage.com/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
Just think, if all Traveller related websites were listed there, it would<BR>
always be this simple! (hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink)<BR>
<BR>
Add your favorite Traveller URL at:<BR>
<BR>
http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Systems/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" <NarellePark@bigpond.com><BR>
> IIRC, I have seen a Travelker web-page which had a map which indicated the<BR>
> location of Known Space (including the Zhodani Core route) with respect to<BR>
> the Milky Way galaxy, but for the life of me, can't find it again.<BR>
Anybody<BR>
> know where to find it (if it still exists)?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, Sep 17 2000 1:48:32 GMT+1100<BR>
From: robocon@ozemail.com.au<BR>
Subject: Re : Wilderness refuelling (star skimming)<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman wrote :-<BR>
(about skimming the corona of stars)<BR>
> If you did this then a TL 16 Darrian Special Branch ship, which<BR>
> (in TNE at least) has a repulsor/tractor, might be able to manage<BR>
> this stunt.<BR>
<BR>
Electrostatic armour or Greg Porter's EM shielding from CSC could<BR>
be easily modified to act as a fuel scoop> ; I wonder where Bussard's<BR>
magnetic scoop would fit on the TTL scale. It's just that we're<BR>
sucking up stuff which is at best ~10^(-12) the density of air, so it<BR>
would take ages to get enough fuel.<BR>
<BR>
On refuelling from the surface of a star :-<BR>
> At a sufficiently high TL it should be possible. Adv. 12 clearly establishes<BR>
> that regular Traveller ships can take very high pressures and high<BR>
> temperatures.<BR>
<BR>
On reflection, given that the majority of stars are relatively cool<BR>
(type M, K have surface temperatures less than 4000 K) quick skims <BR>
would be possible at average Traveller TLs, given the (very impressive)<BR>
performance specs given in 'Secret of the Ancients'. <BR>
Hopefully you have enough manoeuvre boost to pull the stunt off.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 02:57:33 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: HGS 1.02 build 5<BR>
<BR>
I've just uploaded the latest build of my High Guard design program to <BR>
downport<BR>
<BR>
 <http://www.downport.com/amv/hgs/hgs.html>.<BR>
<BR>
This version changes the way book 2 gunnery crews are calculated. They <BR>
are now figured the same ways as book 5 (ie per battery rather than per <BR>
turret). It also notes bay crew for book 2 crews (so all those who want a <BR>
1000t ship with one weapon can indulge).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 07:29:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Michael Scanlon wrote :-<BR>
>> Just a quick one, whats the coposition of say Jupiter's or Saturn's<BR>
>> or Venus's atmosphere? Is it something tht can be coverted into fuel?<BR>
>> Is it Hydrogen based? Just as a matter of keeping the Surfers happy.<BR>
><BR>
> Gas giant atmospheres are rich in hydrogen, ammonia and methane.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it tends to be "Hydrogen & helium, with *trace* amounts of<BR>
ammonia, methane and water". It's just that before the Pioneer and<BR>
Voyager missions, they had to rely on spectroscopic info, which told<BR>
them that there was ammonia and methane, but gave no idea as to how<BR>
*much* there was compared to anything else that might be present.<BR>
<BR>
From the "Atmospheres" section of the "Properties of the Solar System"<BR>
table in the CRC Handbook of Physics & Chemistry:<BR>
<BR>
          surface<BR>
          press  CO2    N2      O2      H2O   H2     He   Ar     Ne     CO<BR>
          -----  -----  ------  ------  ----  -----  ---  -----  -----  -----<BR>
Mercury   2e-15                               2%     98%<BR>
Venus     90     96.4%  3.4%    69ppm   0.1%              4ppm          20ppm<BR>
Earth     1      0.03%  78.08%  20.95%  0-3%              0.93%  18ppm  1ppm<BR>
Mars      0.007  95.23% 2.7%    0.13%   0.03%             1.6%   3ppm   0.07%<BR>
Jupiter                                       86.1%  13.8%<BR>
Saturn                                        92.4%  7.4%<BR>
Uranus                                        89%    11%<BR>
Neptune                                       89%    11%<BR>
Pluto     1e-5<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Venus : nitrogen, carbon and sulphur oxides.<BR>
<BR>
The sulfur oxides are a *trace* in clouds. The water droplets tend to<BR>
concentrate them.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 07:50:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [TNS] Eco warrior surfers protest at spacers wilderness<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> There was talk about refuelling from stars a few days ago. I wonder<BR>
>> whether or not using electromagnetic snares for coronal material<BR>
>> would be viable (density is comparable to the solar wind). <BR>
<BR>
Which is a damn good *vacuum*....<BR>
<BR>
>> Scraping the surface of a sun looks right out.<BR>
><BR>
> At a sufficiently high TL it should be possible. Adv. 12 clearly establishes<BR>
> that regular Traveller ships can take very high pressures and high<BR>
> temperatures. As TL (and materials science) advances there is a point<BR>
> where ships should be able to refuel from stars. I'm simply not sure <BR>
> what TL it would take.<BR>
<BR>
Well, there's a problem. Larger gas giants are bad enough (Jupiter has<BR>
a "surface" gravity of 23.12 m/s^2). But the *Sun* has 273.98 m/s^2.<BR>
That's almost 28 gees.<BR>
<BR>
With a reaction based drive, if you wanted to be able to get *away*<BR>
after "scooping", you'd have to be travelling at well *above* escape<BR>
velocity. Which is 617.7 km/s! That'd tend to heat the ship<BR>
"unreasonably". <eg><BR>
<BR>
And with thruster plates, you *still* have to be moving pretty fast, as<BR>
otherwise you can't get away. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 12:27:59 -0300<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Still Looking For STRIKER SPREADSHEET<BR>
<BR>
         A week or two ago someone had posted looking for a Striker design <BR>
spreadsheet or program.  Never really saw a related answer.  Could someone <BR>
who knows where I could find one please send me the URL or email it to <BR>
me.  Thanks.  Please reply directly;  I might miss it in the digests.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
         -- Michel R. Vaillancourt<BR>
            (ICQ # 31172292)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 07:59:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> > For any fuel, the energy you can extract is proportional to the mass,<BR>
> not<BR>
>> > the volume. So packing fuel into a smaller space still allows you the<BR>
> same<BR>
>> > energy per kilo, just from less volume. This means smaller fuel tanks.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Yeah, but if your smaller tank weighs too much, the energy used to<BR>
>> *move* it negates the savings from the smaller volume.<BR>
><BR>
> If the mass of fuel is the same, just smaller, then the tank walls will<BR>
> weigh less (Unless it needs to be thicker for insulation or whatnot, but<BR>
> since even the larger tank must be insulated to hold LH2, I think it's a<BR>
> fairly safe bet that it shouldn't need to get any thicker) and the fuel<BR>
> will weigh the same, surely?<BR>
<BR>
You can't *compress* LH2 enough to matter at any sort of pressure worth<BR>
mentioning. <BR>
<BR>
The "denser storage" stores the hydrogen inside a solid *block* of<BR>
metal (which is then enclosed in a tank so you can control which way<BR>
the H2 comes out).<BR>
<BR>
It combines chemically with the metal. We are talking about stuff that<BR>
may store 10 tons of hydrogen per dton, but *weighs* 100-200 tons per<BR>
dton (likely closer to 200)<BR>
<BR>
So if your ship needs 100 tons of hydrogen, it'll need 1000-2000 *tons*<BR>
(not dtons!) of tanks. <BR>
<BR>
I seem to recall that jump fuel is 10% of volume under more recent<BR>
rules. So that means that 1000 dton ship would have 1000-2000 *mass*<BR>
tonnes of tankage just for jump fuel. Which means it's going need one<BR>
*hell* of a lot more fuel for the manuever drive. And if the drive is a<BR>
reaction drive, you can forget it. <BR>
<BR>
>> Yeah, now consider what happens if the smaller tank weighs as much or<BR>
>> more than that extra armor.<BR>
><BR>
> That would be a net loss, even if you got an increase in weight by moving<BR>
> to a smaller tank (which doesn't make a lot of sense to me anyway).<BR>
><BR>
> However, under FFS (at least for this design) that's not the case.<BR>
<BR>
You seem to have missed that we wewre talking about storing the fuel as<BR>
metallic hydrides, not just the usual ammonia/water/methane dodge. <BR>
<BR>
>> Yeah, but mass still counts for stuff like manuever drives.<BR>
><BR>
> But the mass of fuel stays the same. I think it's a fairly safe bet to<BR>
> assume the tankage gets lighter as it gets smaller. So the only extra mass<BR>
> you're having to haul around is paymass. Cargo, guns, or whatever.Or just<BR>
> make the ship smaller, need less jump drive, etc.<BR>
<BR>
And your bet is wrong. The tank wall will get lighter, except that<BR>
because they hold something denser, they need to be stronger (for<BR>
liquids). For the *solid* storage, as I point out above, they get<BR>
*hideously* more massive.<BR>
<BR>
For the liquids:<BR>
<BR>
Water	 molecular weight 18, 2 of which is hydrogen<BR>
         1/9th hydrogen by mass<BR>
Ammonia  molecular weight 17, 3 of which is hydrogen<BR>
         3/17th hydrogen by mass<BR>
Methane  molecular weight 16, 4 of which is hydrogen<BR>
         1/4th hydrogen by mass<BR>
<BR>
So to get one ton of hydrogen you need to carry *9* tons of water, or<BR>
5.67 tons of ammonia, or 4 tons of methane. That extra mass *far*<BR>
outweighs the savings from smaller tanks. <BR>
<BR>
I don't have the figures for density handy (but other folks on the list<BR>
do). But 9 tons of water takes up 9 cubic meters. Or about 2/3rds of a<BR>
dton. The other liquids are *less* dense, which means they take up<BR>
*more* room per unit mass. <BR>
<BR>
So with water, you get tanks 1/3rd smaller at the expense of upping the<BR>
mass by 9. Things are better with ammonia and methane, but still far<BR>
from ideal.<BR>
<BR>
Plus, you need equipment that can *convert* the liquids to hydrogen as<BR>
fast as you need to use it. Which means a *lot* of fuel refiners, or<BR>
equivalent gear.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 08:20:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>>On top of that, the impact is probably<BR>
>>> lessened within the M25 (London's orbital carpark, sorry, motorway<BR>
>>> for non-UK readers) due to the significant use of public transport...<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I've always liked the fact that the M25's name is the London Orbital. It<BR>
>> would make a good name for a starport.<BR>
><BR>
> I agree that the London Orbital is a good name for a starport.  Sadly,<BR>
> given London's high latitude, it's a lousy place for anything other than<BR>
> a military starport (since military craft in Traveller have enough<BR>
> acceleration to compensate for the relatively low boost provided by<BR>
> Terra's rotation at high latitudes).<BR>
<BR>
Traveller ships, even Free traders and the like can just about *ignore*<BR>
the latitude effect. It amounts to (at most) an extra 1000 mph of<BR>
boost. Which is only significant when you are using chemical rockets or<BR>
early nuclear ones. Beyond that, it's about as significant as a<BR>
headwind is to an airliner. It'll up fuel consumption a bit. Not enough<BR>
to worry about.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, "London Orbital" is obviously a name for a *highport*. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Orbital mechanics put a whole new spin on Jimmy Buffet's "Changes in<BR>
> Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes."<BR>
<BR>
So do ships where a *small* fraction of the loaded mass is fuel for the<BR>
maneuver drive.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 08:25:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Never fear Leonard, just wait for Mt. Hood to go active and you'll be up to<BR>
> proverbial/literal eyeballs with sulfur. You could always run down to the<BR>
> St. Helen's area and scoop some. ;)<BR>
<BR>
Nope. Cascade volcanos aren't much for sulfure deposits. Probably for<BR>
the same reasons they tend to have lava that flows so poorly that<BR>
eruptions go "boom" instead of pouring out liquid lava.<BR>
<BR>
Nearest place with lots of sulfides is rather inaccessible (the "black<BR>
smokers" off the Oregon coast :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 08:27:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In-Reply-To: <v04210105b5e716150ba8@[195.102.197.85]><BR>
> Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
><BR>
> The media tends to ignore us in the North-West. Crewe in Cheshire has no <BR>
> petrol... I am webmeistering from home today, paused for a brief online <BR>
> gossip & then will settle down to do the college's Student Handbook web <BR>
> conversion (despite the row of rpg books that live on my desk!).<BR>
><BR>
> I don't expect petrol until the middle of next week. Last Wednesday I <BR>
> walked a 6-mile round trip to go to the roleplaying club. <BR>
<BR>
And here I thought all you Brits rode bicycles all the time. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 08:32:20 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Ok, I was naughty, and did a little web surfing at work.<BR>
><BR>
> From http://www.msnbc.com/news/459341.asp?cp1=1#BODY<BR>
><BR>
> "STILL EXPENSIVE<BR>
> Hydrogen is one of the world's most plentiful elements -- most commonly<BR>
> found bond with oxygen in the form of water. Because of that, its<BR>
> supplies are virtually limitless. But even hydrogen's biggest supporters<BR>
> admit hydrogen energy has its limits -- beginning with price.  <BR>
> Hydrogen is expensive at roughly $6.90 a gallon. That's expected to come<BR>
> down, but only if energy companies build new hydrogen processing plants,<BR>
> develop new ways to transport and store the unstable chemical and create<BR>
> a network of hydrogen service stations.<BR>
> All that could take decades and billions of dollars.<BR>
> As an energy source, it has long been viewed as an exotic fuel reserved<BR>
> for space travel.<BR>
> Hydrogen's only exhaust is water vapor. That means no more clouds of<BR>
> carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and other pollutants that are the<BR>
> byproducts of gasoline and are believed to contribute to global<BR>
> warming."<BR>
<BR>
Actually, if burned in an internal combustion engine, hydrogen will<BR>
*still* produce NOx (nitrogen oxides) due to the high temps & pressures<BR>
in the engine, combined with the brief time available for burning. <BR>
<BR>
It also has some *severe* handling problems, even inside the engine.<BR>
You see, many metals absorb hydrogen, and in the process, they become<BR>
brittle. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 08:36:10 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 08:36 PM 9/14/00, you wrote:<BR>
>>Ok, I was naughty, and did a little web surfing at work.<BR>
>><BR>
>> From http://www.msnbc.com/news/459341.asp?cp1=1#BODY<BR>
>><BR>
>>"STILL EXPENSIVE<BR>
><BR>
> Snip<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>Hydrogen's only exhaust is water vapor. That means no more clouds of<BR>
>>carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and other pollutants that are the<BR>
>>byproducts of gasoline and are believed to contribute to global<BR>
>>warming."<BR>
>><BR>
>>I dunno how many litres there are in a gallon... I'll convert that<BR>
>>later.<BR>
><BR>
> I hate to break this to the guys over at MSNBC, but water is a greenhouse <BR>
> gas too.<BR>
><BR>
> I will spare everyone my CO2/H2O rant.<BR>
<BR>
Water tends to rain out though. Also, the clouds tend to *cool* the<BR>
planet by increasing the albedo.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 08:37:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Let's not forget NOx (Oxides of Nitrogen) generated as byproducts of<BR>
> combustion assuming your Hydrogen IC engine is running on "normal air" and<BR>
> not LOX.<BR>
<BR>
LOX as a motor vehicle fuel is insane. Do you know what you get when<BR>
you spill LOX on asphalt (macadam)?<BR>
<BR>
You get one big land mine!<BR>
<BR>
But it looks like hydrogen (or methane) and air fuel cells are getting<BR>
more workable.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 08:41:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Mark, I had a *great time* as a RSO.  Really.  Honestly.  Right up until<BR>
> that mental midget swept us with the muzzle of the MG-42. <BR>
<BR>
The sad part of being RSO is that you can't shoot the idiot, because<BR>
you'd have to point your weapon in the wrong direction to do so...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 08:42:45 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: More Human than Human<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Question to the List?<BR>
><BR>
> Has anyone worked up stats for<BR>
> New Race Draka?<BR>
<BR>
No, but if someone has, I'd like to see them posted.<BR>
<BR>
Alas, fabers aren't real compatible with Traveller. Still, an alternate<BR>
Traveller universe based on the Draka books could be very interesting.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 08:49:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Mark,<BR>
> Thanks for the reference.<BR>
> I think that my Emperium would deal with these<BR>
> persons in the traditional manner. <BR>
> "Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to<BR>
> be sure"<BR>
<BR>
Except that given the history, you'll only encounter them already in space.<BR>
<BR>
Picture things going as in the books right up to the end of "the Stone<BR>
Dogs", except that they use Jump drives (or maybe they discover them later).<BR>
<BR>
You wind up with the area that *was* the Solomani Sphere being divided<BR>
between Solomani and the Domination. Have the dividing line run<BR>
coreward/rimward. <BR>
<BR>
Such a *lovely* neighbor for the Imperium. (I'm assuming that the Draka<BR>
aren't the ones that take over the Imperium). <BR>
<BR>
The only thing I'm not sure of is if I want the Aslan or the Hivers to<BR>
be stuck sharing a border with the Draka... Probably the Hivers. I<BR>
think they'd be better because they could try a manipulation similar to<BR>
the ones they pulled on the K'kree to convince the Draka that they are<BR>
better left alone.<BR>
<BR>
> I must admit to some, well.....sadistic thoughts<BR>
> as to what I could do to my gaming group with<BR>
> them. <BR>
<BR>
Yeah, they're enough to make the Imperium and the Zhodani into allies. <BR>
<BR>
> Has anyone else come up with a variant<BR>
> similar to this as well. I recall seeing somewhere<BR>
> a write up on the Kontrin from CJ Cherryh.<BR>
<BR>
What book/story are they from?<BR>
<BR>
BTW, consider the fun of adding Gehenna to your TU. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:09:28 -0700<BR>
From: "T. Kuchta" <tkuchta@desertlinc.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Known Space and the Milky Way Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
Jeffery Malone wrte:<BR>
<BR>
> IIRC, I have seen a Travelker web-page which had a map which indicated the<BR>
> location of Known Space (including the Zhodani Core route) with respect to<BR>
> the Milky Way galaxy, but for the life of me, can't find it again.<BR>
Anybody<BR>
> know where to find it (if it still exists)?<BR>
<BR>
Try the on-line version of Security Leak magazine by Greg Giles at<BR>
<BR>
http://www.securityleak.net/<BR>
<BR>
The on-line reprint of issue 5 talked about the Zhodani 8th Core Expedition<BR>
and included a map of the galaxy.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"After all, we are a nation in all but name."<BR>
- -- Robert Foxx, CAO Foxx Industries, 2204, upon the decision to create the<BR>
Independent Military Services (IMS) unit.<BR>
<BR>
Visit the 2300AD site of Foxx Industries at:<BR>
http://www.desertlinc.net/~tkuchta/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
Terry Kuchta<BR>
tkuchta@desertlinc.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:28:35 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker Miniatures<BR>
<BR>
>From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>Subject: Striker Miniatures<BR>
><BR>
>I just received my first order of micro-scale figures from Steve Hudson. The<BR>
>figures are from Scotia, so they are not exactly the highest quality.<BR>
>Actually, they are nowhere near the quality you get from GHQ.<BR>
...<BR>
>So if you are looking for a way to get those wierd vehicles you need for<BR>
>Striker, but GHQ never has, drop Steve a line.<BR>
<BR>
  The poor quality of the WW-1 line is from lack of competition, AFAIK :(<BR>
For the moderns line the difference in quality is insufficient for most<BR>
wargamers to justify the much higher (~ double) cost.<BR>
<BR>
  FWIW, Simtac (USA) distributes Scotia (don't know the URL off-hand, though);<BR>
I assume that standard pieces run ~$0.80 US pre-tax these days.<BR>
<BR>
  Steven Hudson - shudson@lightspeed.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:40:40 -0500<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
<BR>
> > Has anyone else come up with a variant<BR>
> > similar to this as well. I recall seeing somewhere<BR>
> > a write up on the Kontrin from CJ Cherryh.<BR>
> <BR>
> What book/story are they from?<BR>
Serpent's Reach, a very pleasant read. I recommend<BR>
> <BR>
> BTW, consider the fun of adding Gehenna to your TU. :-)<BR>
What a lovely idea. Thanks<BR>
Pat<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:39:58 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Wilderness refuelling (star skimming)<BR>
<BR>
>I wonder where Bussard's<BR>
> magnetic scoop would fit on the TTL scale.<BR>
<BR>
FFS1 sort of implies that it's doable at TL-9. The Alternative Technologies<BR>
section of the Sublight Drives chapter includes Bussard Hydrogen Ram<BR>
rockets and doesn't specify a tech level, just explains how to modify a<BR>
fusion rocket (available at TL-9) to make one.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:55:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
> The "denser storage" stores the hydrogen inside a solid *block* of<BR>
> metal (which is then enclosed in a tank so you can control which way<BR>
> the H2 comes out).<BR>
<BR>
Right - *THAT* would be the fact I missed here. I thought we were talking<BR>
about storing H2 in a metallic form, which would be more tightly packed<BR>
than the liquid. Apparently not.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3057<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3058</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/16/00 4:10:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 16 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3058<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: AngloMetric Thumbnail Conversions<BR>
TML archive?<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: CT Untrained Weapon DMs<BR>
Re: Still Looking For STRIKER SPREADSHEET<BR>
Re: Striker Miniatures<BR>
Re: TML archive?<BR>
unsubscribe traveller<BR>
Re: Penguins?<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Wilderness refuelling (star skimming)<BR>
RE: Striker Miniatures<BR>
RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Hydrogen<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 09:47:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: AngloMetric Thumbnail Conversions<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Some of us speak English/Imperial measurements, some of us speak metric.<BR>
> Here's a quick-and-dirty conversion table.  Conversions are not exact, but<BR>
> can be used for estimates, and are probably accurate enough for most<BR>
> Traveller use.<BR>
<BR>
> 1 km ~= .6 mile<BR>
> 1 mile ~= 1.6 km<BR>
> 1 m ~= 1 yard<BR>
> 1 ft ~= 30 cm<BR>
> 1 in ~= 25 mm<BR>
<BR>
Actually, 10 ft ~= 3m is *very* close for most purposes. (it's actually<BR>
10 ft = 3.048 m, which means it's within 2%)<BR>
<BR>
If you want exact conversions:<BR>
<BR>
1 inch = 2.54 cm<BR>
1 ounce = 28.35 grams<BR>
1 (US) gallon = 231 cubic inches<BR>
1 sq. mile = 640 acres<BR>
<BR>
From those you can work out most of the rest.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 12:38:05 -0500<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: TML archive?<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know where the list archive is now? Is it still at ftp.mpgn.com?<BR>
The files there end in 1999, AFAICT.<BR>
<BR>
Ciao,<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich<BR>
yikes@evansville.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:11:59<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 08:41 AM 9/16/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Mark, I had a *great time* as a RSO.  Really.  Honestly.  Right up until<BR>
>> that mental midget swept us with the muzzle of the MG-42. <BR>
><BR>
>The sad part of being RSO is that you can't shoot the idiot, because<BR>
>you'd have to point your weapon in the wrong direction to do so...<BR>
<BR>
This was at the end of the day, and all the ROs were standing with Mark.<BR>
the idiot in question was bagging his weapon and casually swept the muzzle<BR>
right over us.<BR>
<BR>
You could spot the veterans *real* quick.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:13:45<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
At 12:39 AM 9/16/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>LKW writes<BR>
>>1 that wants to know if he can<BR>
>>abdicate in favor of a penguin.<BR>
><BR>
>Doug!  Stop bothering Loren!<BR>
<BR>
Well, why do you think they're called *Emperor Penguins*?<BR>
<BR>
I'm going to hide until Ground Forces comes out now.  :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas Berry      gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
   http://gridlore.home.mondspring.com<BR>
<BR>
"A mrgs einu sinni hluti minn systir..."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:52:06 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
At 15:10 -0400 15/9/00 "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk>wrote:<BR>
>Over here it's proper pints for proper beer... 20 fl oz of Tetley Bitter,<BR>
>bah' gum! <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
But don't worry; if you behave well we may let you have a decent <BR>
bitter rather than Tetley's! <g,d,r><BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:27:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re: Droyne Invisibility revisited AND Baby News<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Oddly enough I do have feel for feet and yards, but not miles. Go<BR>
> figure!<BR>
<BR>
Between walking 2 miles to school (I was *right* on the edge of the 2<BR>
mile boundary, which meant I *didn't* get to ride the bus for free),<BR>
and having been on a couple of 20 mile hikes, I know all too well what<BR>
miles are like. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:34:57 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Add to those (plus my earlier reason!):<BR>
><BR>
> 1.   It is a logical, albiet obvious, progression.<BR>
> 2.   I want to see a retired Strephon touring those wild Imperial fringe <BR>
> areas<BR>
> that were too, er, "interesting" for him to be able to see safely when he was<BR>
> actually Emperor. Y'know, places like Tavonni in the Marches (the Baroness<BR>
> already has the "Strephon Was Here" plaque ready to be mounted... :-).<BR>
<BR>
If *she* gets mounted, mounting the plaque could be painful... :-)<BR>
<BR>
(yes, I'm a sick puppy. And your point is? :-)<BR>
<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
> of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
> position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:41:26 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Basically similar to how a refrigerator makes cold freon (or modern<BR>
>> substitute working fluid):  Repeated adiabatic expansion followed by<BR>
>> condensation and compression.  See for example<BR>
><BR>
> Perhaps more fun than making liquid hydrogen is (perhaps?) playing with it.<BR>
> A few years ago, I had a supply of liquid nitrogen in my lab for cooling an<BR>
> x-ray detector. In addition to the usual games of freezing Snickers bars and<BR>
> related fun, one night while working late, a co-worker decided to see what<BR>
> would happen if you splashed a large quantity of LN down the hallway. The LN<BR>
> quickly condenses water vapor from the air, and made the security guards<BR>
> think that there was a fire because of seeing the (water vapor) "smoke."<BR>
> When they ran to check out the "fire," the vapor was gone, leaving extremely<BR>
> puzzled guards.<BR>
><BR>
> "Was there a fire here?"<BR>
><BR>
> "Nope."<BR>
<BR>
Just remember that if you leave a wide shallow container of liquid<BR>
nitrogen exposed to the air it'll condense oxygen (which has a higher<BR>
boiling point) out of the air. Thus, afdter a while the liquid has a<BR>
bluish tinge because it's now LOX!<BR>
<BR>
*Very* dangerous situation.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:43:50 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Luther Martin writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> See, for example, http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/<BR>
><BR>
> I had the feeling people would be familiar with this.<BR>
><BR>
> Incidentally, anyone know what would happen if you poured liquid hydrogen on<BR>
> charcoal, in the presence of a heat source?  I suspect you might get a lot <BR>
> of hot methane (and then a fireball as it burned in the atmosphere) but <BR>
> I really don't know.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. Hydrogen and "bulk" carbon don't combine very well. Heat is more<BR>
apt to *decompose* methane than create it.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:18:49 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
on 9/16/00 8:59 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
> It combines chemically with the metal. We are talking about stuff that<BR>
> may store 10 tons of hydrogen per dton, but *weighs* 100-200 tons per<BR>
> dton (likely closer to 200)<BR>
<BR>
Technically speaking, hydrogen mixes with the 'other' metal forming an alloy<BR>
(hydrogen is a metal).  There is no more a chemical reaction that there is<BR>
in making brass from copper and zinc.<BR>
<BR>
My recollection is that ECS is making hydride storage from lithium sponge,<BR>
and I know palladium is also used.  Any idea what the density of the<BR>
material is? <BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 14:20:44 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: CT Untrained Weapon DMs<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/16/00 1:40:12 PM !!!First Boot!!!, ian@vax2.concordia.ca <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I find that even players<BR>
    with louzy Dex and -4 to hit with a gun can pick up a shotgun and have<BR>
    a reasonable chance of knocking down a thug  >><BR>
<BR>
which for my two credits worth, is the reason I think that non <BR>
military/martial PC's should only get the untrained weapon modifier for the <BR>
shotgun and the carbine. I consider these two weapons as the most likely to <BR>
be purchased by civilians in a medium to high law level world. If the GM <BR>
REALLY wants to limit the mayhem, he/she can limit these weapons to single or <BR>
double shot capacity. Besides; I think "doubles" look classy...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 14:41:29 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Still Looking For STRIKER SPREADSHEET<BR>
<BR>
Traveller web directory to the rescue, once again!<BR>
<BR>
http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo/Enter.htm<BR>
<BR>
Is your Traveller page on the Netscape Directory?<BR>
http://dmoz.org/Games/Roleplaying/Systems/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
No? Well, add it right now! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Michel Vaillancourt" <misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
>          A week or two ago someone had posted looking for a Striker design<BR>
> spreadsheet or program.  Never really saw a related answer.  Could someone<BR>
> who knows where I could find one please send me the URL or email it to<BR>
> me.  Thanks.  Please reply directly;  I might miss it in the digests.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:46:37 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker Miniatures<BR>
<BR>
Steve Hudson sez:<BR>
<BR>
>FWIW, Simtac (USA) distributes Scotia (don't know the URL off-hand, though);<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
http://members.aol.com/dins/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
and<BR>
<BR>
http://www.simtac.com/<BR>
<BR>
they are in the process of setting up a secure server & catalog for online <BR>
ordering,and only a few things have made it over to that so far. Both <BR>
addresses are thus useful.<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:01:12 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TML archive?<BR>
<BR>
ftp://ftp.mpgn.com/Gaming/Traveller/MailingListArchive/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
As you scroll down the page, notice that the dates on the left get mixed up<BR>
a bit?  Then notice how the v1999 numbers don't necessarily jibe with a year<BR>
2000 archive?  v1999-1630 is the first digest for the year 2000.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Does anyone know where the list archive is now? Is it still at<BR>
ftp.mpgn.com?<BR>
> The files there end in 1999, AFAICT.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 20:09:12 GMT<BR>
From: "i Steve" <isteve1967@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: unsubscribe traveller<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe traveller<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
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http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 19:32:55 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins?<BR>
<BR>
At 20:24 -0400 15/9/00, "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> > Well, you did go and play GT when we ran the Death match which<BR>
> > included an Adelie armed character taking on another with a<BR>
> > flamethrower....<BR>
>Ahem! I did go and fill in a ref slot since everybody else was scared of<BR>
>GURPS! <grin><BR>
<BR>
I'm not scared of GURPS. It's just not part of my belief system <BR>
especially. I offered to run them T4.x ....<BR>
<BR>
Basically, I think that the GURPS books for Traveller (and others - I <BR>
have Myth, New Sun, Uplift (for only 12 new at GenCon UK), Space 3) <BR>
are excellent, but although I own Basic 3 R&E  it's not my idea of <BR>
fun. Although I'd probably run a fantasy game with it rather than <BR>
D&D2/3 (especially in the Myth setting). There are other rules <BR>
systems I much prefer.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:22:05 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 5:27 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > In-Reply-To: <v04210105b5e716150ba8@[195.102.197.85]><BR>
> > Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > The media tends to ignore us in the North-West. Crewe in Cheshire has no<BR>
> > petrol... I am webmeistering from home today, paused for a brief online<BR>
> > gossip & then will settle down to do the college's Student Handbook web<BR>
> > conversion (despite the row of rpg books that live on my desk!).<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I don't expect petrol until the middle of next week. Last Wednesday I<BR>
> > walked a 6-mile round trip to go to the roleplaying club.<BR>
><BR>
> And here I thought all you Brits rode bicycles all the time. :-)<BR>
<BR>
That's the Dutch... (or the Chinese)<BR>
<BR>
We all wear Bowlers and pin-stripe suits, carry copies of the Times and long<BR>
black umbrellas, and catch the Clapham Omnibus, the 7:35 to Paddington, the<BR>
Tube, Hackney Carriages, or are chauffer driven in Rollers or Jags, don'cha<BR>
know!<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:27:57 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Wilderness refuelling (star skimming)<BR>
<BR>
Robert Connor wrote:<BR>
> On reflection, given that the majority of stars are relatively cool<BR>
> (type M, K have surface temperatures less than 4000 K) quick skims<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, the Corona is much, much hotter than the surface, and you<BR>
need to go through a couple of million km of it to get to the surface.<BR>
<BR>
The sun is ~6000 K at the surface, but the corona is up to 2,000,000 K or<BR>
so.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:47:10 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker Miniatures<BR>
<BR>
Steve's prices are MUCH BETTER. It's like that commercial for long distance<BR>
phone companies that was on TV several years back; which price do you want<BR>
to pay, the high one or the low one?<BR>
<BR>
> >FWIW, Simtac (USA) distributes Scotia (don't know the URL<BR>
> off-hand, though);<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> http://members.aol.com/dins/index.htm<BR>
><BR>
> and<BR>
><BR>
> http://www.simtac.com/<BR>
><BR>
> they are in the process of setting up a secure server & catalog<BR>
> for online<BR>
> ordering,and only a few things have made it over to that so far. Both<BR>
> addresses are thus useful.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:51:00 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Just remember that if you leave a wide shallow container of liquid<BR>
> nitrogen exposed to the air it'll condense oxygen (which has a higher<BR>
> boiling point) out of the air. Thus, afdter a while the liquid has a<BR>
> bluish tinge because it's now LOX!<BR>
><BR>
> *Very* dangerous situation.<BR>
<BR>
I have never witnessed this, although I have watched several open containers<BR>
of LN boil off. In my experience, the LN doesn't just sit there, is boils<BR>
quite vigorously, and is gone very quickly, so I doubt that there's any<BR>
serious safety problem. In fact, it's a bit tricky to get a container full<BR>
of LN to watch boil away, any you never quite know how much is in your cup<BR>
because of the water vapor clouds you get.<BR>
<BR>
I always wanted to play with liquid helium, but it's hard to justify for<BR>
most lab uses. ISTR that its heat capacity is extremely low compared to LN,<BR>
so it doesn't cool things wery well. So unless you absolutely have to have<BR>
things below 77K, there's really no use for it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 22:02:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> We all wear Bowlers and pin-stripe suits, carry copies of the Times and<BR>
long<BR>
> black umbrellas, and catch the Clapham Omnibus, the 7:35 to Paddington,<BR>
the<BR>
> Tube, Hackney Carriages, or are chauffer driven in Rollers or Jags,<BR>
don'cha<BR>
> know!<BR>
><BR>
> Matt<BR>
<BR>
You don't. You're a northerner. (The only northerner to do any of the above<BR>
is John Prescott, as all the world knows.)<BR>
<BR>
You drink bitter, eat pies with gravy and watch Rugby League.<BR>
<BR>
Nick the southerner<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 22:05:34 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> I have never witnessed this, although I have watched several open<BR>
containers<BR>
> of LN boil off. In my experience, the LN doesn't just sit there, is boils<BR>
> quite vigorously, and is gone very quickly, so I doubt that there's any<BR>
> serious safety problem. In fact, it's a bit tricky to get a container<BR>
full<BR>
> of LN to watch boil away, any you never quite know how much is in your<BR>
cup<BR>
> because of the water vapor clouds you get.<BR>
<BR>
It's easier if you use a really deep flask. The last time I used LN (not<BR>
that I get to use it a great deal), we had a flask about twelve inches deep<BR>
and about four wide, on the inside. There was only about four inches of LN<BR>
in the bottom of the flask, so once enough had boiled off there was a nice<BR>
insulating layer of cold gaseous LN in the top of the flask.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 22:18:23 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
> in the bottom of the flask, so once enough had boiled off there was a<BR>
nice<BR>
> insulating layer of cold gaseous LN in the top of the flask.<BR>
<BR>
Or a layer of cold gaseous N, even....<BR>
<BR>
<duh><BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:13:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
A quick meta-game note here:<BR>
<BR>
I would say that the whole point of these "storing more H in less volume" <BR>
tricks is to take advantage of the fact that many editions of Traveller <BR>
completely IGNORE mass, dealing only in volume.  It's a means of exploiting <BR>
an incomplete rules system.<BR>
<BR>
Then again, I'm sure Peter Newman can come up with some handwave to explain <BR>
that, since the Rules don't say that starships have mass, they <BR>
DON'T.  (Inertialess m-drives, anyone?)<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:54:27 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 04:45:17 +0200<BR>
> From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
> <BR>
> Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> > Incidentally, anyone know what would happen if you poured liquid hydrogen on<BR>
> > charcoal, in the presence of a heat source?  I suspect you might get a lot<BR>
> > of hot methane (and then a fireball as it burned in the atmosphere) but<BR>
> > I really don't know.<BR>
> <BR>
> If you have oxygen present (as in 'air'), you'd get an explosion<BR>
> instead. Remember chemistry classes? Mix oxygen and hydrogen, ignite...<BR>
> BOOM.<BR>
<BR>
Heck with chem class (though that is a nice little demo); remember the<BR>
Hindenberg.  It should be noted, however, that H2/O2 explosions don't pack<BR>
much of a punch; because the reaction product (2 H2O) takes up much less<BR>
volume than the reagents (2 H2 + O2), very little shock wave is produced.<BR>
It's more of a "Whoomf!" than a "Boom!". :)  Shockwave-producing<BR>
explosions involve solid or liquid -- that is, very dense -- reagents<BR>
converting to a gas-phase product, very very quickly.  Gunpowder plus<BR>
oxidant is a good example.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:25:34 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> You start with a chemical which has a not too cold boiling point, say<BR>
> -15 C and cool this to liquid. You then use this liquid to cool another<BR>
> with a lower boiling point say -30 C, you then use this to cool another<BR>
> at say -45 C and on and on and on and on until you get down to the<BR>
> temperature you need for Liquid Hydrogen. You also get a lot of other<BR>
> liquid chemicals as a by product.<BR>
><BR>
> As long as you can cast metal cylinders you can store lots of these<BR>
> liquid chemicals at room temperature and pressure. This is thus a TL 1 <BR>
> procedure.<BR>
<BR>
At standard temperature and pressure, a tank won't make any difference<BR>
as to whether or not something is liquid or gas. <BR>
<BR>
If you *increase* the pressure, *some* gases will liquefy. But only if<BR>
you carry away the heat generated by compressing them. <BR>
<BR>
But this only works for gases with a critical temperature above room<BR>
temp. Chlorine, ammonia, CO2, Sulfur dioxide, freon, etc. <BR>
<BR>
For things like oxygen, nitrogen and hydrogen, it gets more<BR>
complicated. You have to cool the compressed gas *below* its critical<BR>
temp before it'll liquefy. <BR>
<BR>
This is done by letting gases that *can* be liquefied evaporate, which<BR>
carries off heat. <BR>
<BR>
This stuff requires at least TL3, more likely TL 4 for most gases. <BR>
<BR>
> I'm sure there are other way to produce liquid Hydrogen, but this was<BR>
> the first way it was done.<BR>
<BR>
Nope.<BR>
<BR>
Compress.<BR>
Cool compressed gas.<BR>
Allow cool, compressed gas to expand and cool the gas for the *next* stage.<BR>
<BR>
Gang enough such stages together and you can get as far as liquid<BR>
hydrogen, maybe liquid helium.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:36:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> on 9/16/00 8:59 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> It combines chemically with the metal. We are talking about stuff that<BR>
>> may store 10 tons of hydrogen per dton, but *weighs* 100-200 tons per<BR>
>> dton (likely closer to 200)<BR>
><BR>
> Technically speaking, hydrogen mixes with the 'other' metal forming an alloy<BR>
> (hydrogen is a metal).  There is no more a chemical reaction that there is<BR>
> in making brass from copper and zinc.<BR>
<BR>
Then it's not a "metallic hydride". :-)<BR>
<BR>
> My recollection is that ECS is making hydride storage from lithium sponge,<BR>
> and I know palladium is also used.  Any idea what the density of the<BR>
> material is? <BR>
<BR>
Palladium has a density of 12. Lithium has a density of .53. That's how<BR>
many *tons* a cubic meter of either weighs. Weight per dton depends on<BR>
what size dton you use. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Palladium: 162-168 tons/dton<BR>
  Lithium: 7.2-7.4 tons/dton<BR>
<BR>
Both are also *very* expensive. And lithium is both flammable, and<BR>
*more* reactive than sodium. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:43:31 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen (was OT date systems)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> The "denser storage" stores the hydrogen inside a solid *block* of<BR>
>> metal (which is then enclosed in a tank so you can control which way<BR>
>> the H2 comes out).<BR>
><BR>
> Right - *THAT* would be the fact I missed here. I thought we were talking<BR>
> about storing H2 in a metallic form, which would be more tightly packed<BR>
> than the liquid. Apparently not.<BR>
<BR>
"metallic hydride" does not equal "metallic hydrogen"<BR>
<BR>
Metallic hydrogen, if it's stable at pressures below several million<BR>
atmospheres, is only going to get you about 1.4 tons of hydrogen per<BR>
dton. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3058<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3059</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/17/00 1:14:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 17 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3059<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
Stellar skimming<BR>
Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Miles and kilometers<BR>
Re: Wilderness refuelling (star skimming)<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Adios!<BR>
RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
re: Yoyodyne<BR>
Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
Re: starships have mass?<BR>
Striker Design Question - 4cm RAM Grenades<BR>
The True Battle Report: Mongo Rebels<BR>
Striker at Kristian Miller's<BR>
Battle of Garden City, Mongo/Jewell<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:46:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> Has anyone else come up with a variant<BR>
>>> similar to this as well. I recall seeing somewhere<BR>
>>> a write up on the Kontrin from CJ Cherryh.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> What book/story are they from?<BR>
> Serpent's Reach, a very pleasant read. I recommend<BR>
<BR>
I may have read it, or maybe not. They don't ring any bells.<BR>
 <BR>
>> BTW, consider the fun of adding Gehenna to your TU. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> What a lovely idea. Thanks<BR>
<BR>
A lovely example of the *very* underused idea that humans can be as<BR>
alien as any non-humans you encounter in SF. <BR>
<BR>
Donald Kingsbury's "Courtship Rite" has another *alien* human society<BR>
worth inflicting on players. <BR>
<BR>
Getting back to Cherryh, *KIF* are easier to understand than Gehennan<BR>
"humans". <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:07:49 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Stellar skimming<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 05:02:08 -0800<BR>
> From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
> <BR>
> > Scraping the surface of a sun looks right out.<BR>
> <BR>
> At a sufficiently high TL it should be possible. Adv. 12 clearly<BR>
> establishes that regular Traveller ships can take very high pressures<BR>
> and high temperatures. As TL (and materials science) advances there is a<BR>
> point where ships should be able to refuel from stars. I'm simply not<BR>
> sure what TL it would take. <BR>
<BR>
The sufficiently high TL would be quite high.  Above the stellar<BR>
photosphere, the hydrogen densitites would be so low that skimming would<BR>
be an impractically long process; below it, the energy densities get<BR>
pretty extreme, and there's no way to cool the ship.<BR>
<BR>
Iaian Banks' novel _Consider Phlebas_, which involves a prolonged<BR>
interstellar war between nearly matched opponent powers whose technology<BR>
would probably rate as old-style-Traveller tech 25 or so, includes a scene<BR>
in which a warship is ambushed by a vessel hiding in the local star's<BR>
photosphere.  "They're not supposed to be able to do that", grumbles the<BR>
captain as his ship is hammered to pieces.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 18:38:16 -0500<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote in message<BR>
news:00916.154604.6k7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com...<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> >>> Has anyone else come up with a variant<BR>
> >>> similar to this as well. I recall seeing somewhere<BR>
> >>> a write up on the Kontrin from CJ Cherryh.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> What book/story are they from?<BR>
> > Serpent's Reach, a very pleasant read. I recommend<BR>
><BR>
> I may have read it, or maybe not. They don't ring any bells.<BR>
><BR>
> >> BTW, consider the fun of adding Gehenna to your TU. :-)<BR>
><BR>
> > What a lovely idea. Thanks<BR>
><BR>
> A lovely example of the *very* underused idea that humans can be as<BR>
> alien as any non-humans you encounter in SF.<BR>
><BR>
> Donald Kingsbury's "Courtship Rite" has another *alien* human society<BR>
> worth inflicting on players.<BR>
><BR>
> Getting back to Cherryh, *KIF* are easier to understand than Gehennan<BR>
> "humans".<BR>
<BR>
I'd suggest that you'd find the "Kontrin" of Cherryh's Serpentius' Stars<BR>
equally inhuman as they have developed a symbiotic relationship with<BR>
an instectile life form as a survival strategy.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I like the "Kif" and have used them sparingly IMTU. How many<BR>
others, I wonder, have used Cherryh as a source for material or created<BR>
derivative there-unto?<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I have worn out my copy of Kingbury's "Courtship Rite" since I first<BR>
picked it up some six or more years ago. I'd always hoped for more from<BR>
that universe. Lot's of fun<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:45:05 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:11:59<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> This was at the end of the day, and all the ROs were standing with Mark.<BR>
> the idiot in question was bagging his weapon and casually swept the muzzle<BR>
> right over us.<BR>
> <BR>
> You could spot the veterans *real* quick.<BR>
<BR>
When my wife was about ten years old, her parents took her out into the<BR>
boonies to teach her basic pistol skills.  She was a bright and impatient<BR>
kid, and eager to shoot something, so she fidgeted and nodded and yes-of-<BR>
course-Dad'ed through all the demonstrations, and the endlessly repeated<BR>
instructions.  Finally, the big moment came.  Dad loaded the pistol with a<BR>
single round, handed it to her already pointed down-range, and told her to<BR>
take her shot at the target (a coffee can, IIRC), then *freeze in place*<BR>
until Dad came to collect the pistol.  At this point she was ticked at<BR>
having this sort of thing repeated like she was an idiot or something, but<BR>
she agreed once more, took the pistol, aimed...and blew the coffee can<BR>
away.  Thrilled, she jumped into the air, spun around screaming "I hit it! <BR>
I hit it!" -- and in the process swept the barrel over Mom and Dad twice. <BR>
They hit the dirt instinctively, even though the pistol was unloaded at<BR>
that point...better to have the reflex, of course.  Needless to say, she<BR>
was pretty chagrined when she realized what she'd done.  It's still one of<BR>
the more popular family-gathering stories. :) <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:49:37 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Miles and kilometers<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:27:32 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> <BR>
> Between walking 2 miles to school (I was *right* on the edge of the 2<BR>
> mile boundary, which meant I *didn't* get to ride the bus for free),<BR>
> and having been on a couple of 20 mile hikes, I know all too well what<BR>
> miles are like. :-)<BR>
<BR>
For me at least, there is some significant psychological (or perhaps<BR>
metabolic) boundary between one km and one mile.  If something is 1 km<BR>
away, I think of it as being in the immediate neighborhood; I'll set off<BR>
to walk there with no more thought than if it were a block or too off.  If<BR>
my destination is a mile away, it becomes a tiny hike, a significant trip,<BR>
something to think about in terms of how long it will take, when I'll be<BR>
back, and what other errands near the destination I can combine.  It's odd<BR>
that 600 m can make such a difference...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 16:52:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Wilderness refuelling (star skimming)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Robert Connor wrote:<BR>
>> On reflection, given that the majority of stars are relatively cool<BR>
>> (type M, K have surface temperatures less than 4000 K) quick skims<BR>
><BR>
> Unfortunately, the Corona is much, much hotter than the surface, and you<BR>
> need to go through a couple of million km of it to get to the surface.<BR>
><BR>
> The sun is ~6000 K at the surface, but the corona is up to 2,000,000 K or<BR>
> so.<BR>
<BR>
True enough, but the corona is so *thin* that it won't heat you<BR>
appreciably.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 15:54:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Just remember that if you leave a wide shallow container of liquid<BR>
>> nitrogen exposed to the air it'll condense oxygen (which has a higher<BR>
>> boiling point) out of the air. Thus, afdter a while the liquid has a<BR>
>> bluish tinge because it's now LOX!<BR>
>><BR>
>> *Very* dangerous situation.<BR>
><BR>
> I have never witnessed this, although I have watched several open containers<BR>
> of LN boil off.<BR>
<BR>
It was part of the warnings in a fire safety manual... warnings based<BR>
on learning "don't do that" the *hard* way. One of the other<BR>
"incidents" listed was where someone mistook an aluminum tank on a<BR>
tractor trailer "tanker" for a mild steel one. And filled it with<BR>
caustic soda... this stripped off the oxide coating (Al2O3 is *soluble*<BR>
in strong bases) and let the bare aluminum react with the water in the<BR>
solution. This released hydrogen *and* generated enough heat to ignite<BR>
the hydrogen. The tanker burned...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I always wanted to play with liquid helium, but it's hard to justify for<BR>
> most lab uses. ISTR that its heat capacity is extremely low compared to LN,<BR>
> so it doesn't cool things wery well. So unless you absolutely have to have<BR>
> things below 77K, there's really no use for it.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's hard to justify if you need stuff above 20K. After all,<BR>
LH2 will get you to *that*. <BR>
<BR>
Nitrogen 77K<BR>
Neon     27K<BR>
Hydrogen 20K<BR>
Helium    4K<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 01:45 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <001501c02064$82613140$1c66fea9@kosh><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Well, you guys dahn souf might wear bowler hats & so on. Crewe - along <BR>
with York & Cambridge - is one of the major bicycling centres of the known <BR>
universe... In Crewe, we kinda specialise in transport, we also build <BR>
trains and Rolls-Royce motor cars.<BR>
<BR>
Oh well, the nearest petrol station to my house had some this evening, so <BR>
we have filled up and have enough to go to work next week now... and, more <BR>
importantly, to go to the pub tomorrow AND get to the airport next Sunday <BR>
because we are off on holiday :-)<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:13:21 EDT<BR>
From: Diespamer@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Adios!<BR>
<BR>
Goodbye All:<BR>
<BR>
Diverging interests and lack of time, I've been a reader of the list for a <BR>
long time, several years now, but it's time to say farewell!<BR>
<BR>
Fred Kiesche<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 18:21:34 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, it's hard to justify if you need stuff above 20K. After all,<BR>
> LH2 will get you to *that*.<BR>
><BR>
> Nitrogen 77K<BR>
> Neon     27K<BR>
> Hydrogen 20K<BR>
> Helium    4K<BR>
<BR>
I have never seen liquid hydrogen in anyone's lab, probably because it's<BR>
somewhat dangerous. On the other hand, I've never seen liquid neon either.<BR>
In fact, it's usually nitrogen or helium. There must be some reason why<BR>
others aren't used, but I don't know why. Cost?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 22:12:00 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
<BR>
Below is a table describing various nuclear power plants that might<BR>
be used in GURPS Traveller Modular Starship Design at various GTL,<BR>
based of figures from the table on VE86 for plants over 5 kilowatts.<BR>
Please note: at GTL9 ships travelling where fissionable materials<BR>
will be readily available are better off using fission rather than<BR>
fusion power plants. While the mass and volume of powered modules is<BR>
unaffected by this, each one should have two prices to reflect the<BR>
vastly different reactor costs. The GM may rule spent fuel rods are<BR>
replaced during the required two week annual maintenance layover at<BR>
no extra cost. This table should be viewed with a fixed width font.<BR>
<BR>
        Nuclear Power Systems for GURPS Traveller<BR>
<BR>
TL Type     Mass (stons)|   Cost (MCr)  | Slice (dtons)*<BR>
             Core   /MW |   Core    /MW |   Core    /MW<BR>
06 RTG          2   100 |     20   1000 |   0.24     12<BR>
                        |               |<BR>
07 Fission     10     4 |    4.4    1.6 |    2.4   0.96<BR>
07 RTG      0.625    25 |   1.25     50 |  0.075      3<BR>
                        |               |<BR>
08 Fission      2     2 |    0.6    0.4 |   0.48   0.48<BR>
08 NPU        0.1     4 |   0.04    1.6 |  0.012   0.48<BR>
08 RTG        0.1     5 |   0.01    0.5 |  0.012    0.6<BR>
                        |               |<BR>
09 Fission    0.5   0.5 |   0.08   0.04 |   0.12   0.12<BR>
09 Fusion      10   0.5 |      5    0.2 |    2.4   0.12<BR>
09 NPU      0.025     1 |   0.01    0.4 |  0.003   0.12<BR>
09 RTG     0.0375   2.5 |   3.75m  0.25 | 0.0045    0.3<BR>
                        |               |<BR>
10 Fission    0.5   0.5 |  0.002  0.002 |   0.12   0.12<BR>
10 Fusion       1   0.1 |    0.3   0.01 |   0.24  0.024<BR>
10 NPU     0.0125   0.5 |  0.005    0.2 | 0.0015   0.06<BR>
10 RTG      0.025     1 | 0.0025    0.1 |  0.003   0.12<BR>
                        |               |<BR>
11 Fission    0.5   0.5 |  0.002  0.002 |   0.12   0.12<BR>
11 Fusion       1   0.1 |   0.15  0.005 |   0.24  0.024<BR>
11 NPU      0.009   0.2 | 0.0036   0.08 |   1.08m 0.024<BR>
11 RTG     0.0125   0.5 |   1.25m  0.05 | 0.0015   0.06<BR>
                        |               |<BR>
12 Fission    0.5   0.5 |  0.002  0.002 |   0.12   0.12<BR>
12 Fusion       1   0.1 |   0.15  0.005 |   0.24  0.024<BR>
12 NPU     0.0045   0.1 | 0.0018   0.04 | 540.00u 0.012<BR>
12 RTG     0.0125   0.5 |   1.25m  0.05 | 0.0015   0.06<BR>
<BR>
* All slices include long term access space; for short term access<BR>
power systems divide these volumes by 1.5. I hope this is useful.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |     Imperative that a scraper from the river     |<BR>
              |   promotes the most influential cactus. FNORD!   |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:21:38 -0400<BR>
From: Justin Kim <justinki@bellatlantic.net><BR>
Subject: re: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
At 10:34 AM -0700 9/14/00, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Wasn't Yoyodyne also in Robocop?  It made the robotic police units.  Did it<BR>
>have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
<BR>
	The company in Robocop was Omni Consumer Products.  The motto <BR>
came from Blade Runner's Tyrell Corporation.<BR>
<BR>
Justin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 16:27:38 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
I'm slowly working on porting HGS to other OS, but I don't have access to <BR>
a Pascal compilier for Mac. Can anyone recommend a good one?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 22:20:40 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
At 1:51 PM -0700 9/16/00, Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>  > Just remember that if you leave a wide shallow container of liquid<BR>
>  > nitrogen exposed to the air it'll condense oxygen (which has a higher<BR>
>  > boiling point) out of the air. Thus, afdter a while the liquid has a<BR>
>  > bluish tinge because it's now LOX!<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > *Very* dangerous situation.<BR>
><BR>
>I have never witnessed this, although I have watched several open containers<BR>
>of LN boil off. In my experience, the LN doesn't just sit there, is boils<BR>
>quite vigorously, and is gone very quickly, so I doubt that there's any<BR>
>serious safety problem. In fact, it's a bit tricky to get a container full<BR>
>of LN to watch boil away, any you never quite know how much is in your cup<BR>
>because of the water vapor clouds you get.<BR>
<BR>
Generally, the boiling nitrogen pushes air out of the container.<BR>
<BR>
One way to get liquid air (don't try this yourself :-) is to<BR>
put liquid nitrogen in a metal can and collect the liquid air<BR>
that drips off of it.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 22:32:44 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
I just finished watching the episode of South Park where they<BR>
take the boy hunting for the first time and advise them; "Don't<BR>
point a gun at anyone unless the safety is on".  I'm beginning<BR>
to think you are going to tell me that isn't an authoritative<BR>
source on gun safety!  (Its the same one where they are threating<BR>
each other with cocked guns and they are remonstrated for<BR>
almost spilling their beers.)<BR>
<BR>
(After my experience with my claim that all Cal. names begin<BR>
with "San" or "Santa" I will point out that I'm not being<BR>
serious :-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  > Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:11:59<BR>
>  > From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > This was at the end of the day, and all the ROs were standing with Mark.<BR>
>  > the idiot in question was bagging his weapon and casually swept the muzzle<BR>
>  > right over us.<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > You could spot the veterans *real* quick.<BR>
><BR>
>When my wife was about ten years old, her parents took her out into the<BR>
>boonies to teach her basic pistol skills.  She was a bright and impatient<BR>
>kid, and eager to shoot something, so she fidgeted and nodded and yes-of-<BR>
>course-Dad'ed through all the demonstrations, and the endlessly repeated<BR>
>instructions.  Finally, the big moment came.  Dad loaded the pistol with a<BR>
>single round, handed it to her already pointed down-range, and told her to<BR>
>take her shot at the target (a coffee can, IIRC), then *freeze in place*<BR>
>until Dad came to collect the pistol.  At this point she was ticked at<BR>
>having this sort of thing repeated like she was an idiot or something, but<BR>
>she agreed once more, took the pistol, aimed...and blew the coffee can<BR>
>away.  Thrilled, she jumped into the air, spun around screaming "I hit it!<BR>
>I hit it!" -- and in the process swept the barrel over Mom and Dad twice.<BR>
>They hit the dirt instinctively, even though the pistol was unloaded at<BR>
>that point...better to have the reflex, of course.  Needless to say, she<BR>
>was pretty chagrined when she realized what she'd done.  It's still one of<BR>
the more popular family-gathering stories. :)<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:27:33 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Just remember that if you leave a wide shallow container of liquid<BR>
> > nitrogen exposed to the air it'll condense oxygen (which has a higher<BR>
> > boiling point) out of the air. Thus, afdter a while the liquid has a<BR>
> > bluish tinge because it's now LOX!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > *Very* dangerous situation.<BR>
<BR>
Great for cleaning floors though!<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 02:38:28 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/16/00 4:03:46 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< You wind up with the area that *was* the Solomani Sphere being divided<BR>
 between Solomani and the Domination. Have the dividing line run<BR>
 coreward/rimward.  >><BR>
<BR>
of course one could argue that given the Solomani's racism against non Terran <BR>
humans; they ARE the Draka...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 02:43:47 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/16/00 8:31:28 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< We all wear Bowlers and pin-stripe suits, carry copies of the Times and <BR>
long<BR>
 black umbrellas, and catch the Clapham Omnibus, the 7:35 to Paddington, the<BR>
 Tube, Hackney Carriages, or are chauffer driven in Rollers or Jags, don'cha<BR>
 know! >><BR>
<BR>
yeah, but you make a REALLY cool folding bicycle called the Brompton. <BR>
Unfortunately, at 800-1000$ US (depending on options) it's pricy as heck...:-(<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:33:47 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
"Lizard Lick", "Love Valley", "Fuqua Varina" and "Duck" are all in North<BR>
Carolina, USA.  My memory says that there is a "Blue Ball" some where on the<BR>
US east coast and a "Whore House Meadows' in Colorado, USA.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 00:14:08 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: starships have mass?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
>Subject: Re: Hydrogen<BR>
><BR>
>A quick meta-game note here:<BR>
><BR>
>I would say that the whole point of these "storing more H in less volume" <BR>
>tricks is to take advantage of the fact that many editions of Traveller <BR>
>completely IGNORE mass, dealing only in volume.  It's a means of exploiting <BR>
>an incomplete rules system.<BR>
<BR>
  I'm not sure that I'd agree with "ignored" rather than simply <BR>
"abstracted", although it gets awkward explaing the lack of a<BR>
differentiation between laden and empty freighters.<BR>
<BR>
  FWIW, B:2 in particular didn't need to stick to simple G-ratings,<BR>
as it used a free map rather than hexes, and could scale accel in<BR>
0.1 or even 0.01 G increments using the (IIRC?) 100mm per G system.<BR>
<BR>
  But yes, the "storing more H in less volume" trick does require<BR>
explicitly ignoring mass in most contexts, as you say.<BR>
<BR>
  Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 00:45:56 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Striker Design Question - 4cm RAM Grenades<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know why RAM grenades have such a high penetration versus<BR>
any other 4cm HEAP round at the same Tech Level?  <BR>
<BR>
For a TL 10 4cm RAM grenade, its as if the designer counted down 10 rows<BR>
instead of 5 (or maybe 10 cm of bore size).  This gives that grenade a<BR>
penetration of 32 versus 21.<BR>
<BR>
Was there an errata for this?<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 01:15:37 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: The True Battle Report: Mongo Rebels<BR>
<BR>
From the San Jose Group, 16 SEP 00:<BR>
- ----------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Rebels of the "Order to Oust the Oppressive Overlord" (OOOO) moved north<BR>
towards the Myrmidon River.  The platoon's AC234Mk1 and AC234Mk3 took up<BR>
overmatch duty while the remaining scout cars began to swim the river<BR>
under a self generated smoke screen.<BR>
<BR>
Initial contact was made with loyalist infantry squad in sniper postions<BR>
Myrmidon City, west of Ming's Magnificent Mulberry Gardens.  The<BR>
infantry opened fire from the upper floors of an office building with<BR>
RAM grenades.  Due to the alert gunner in the Mk1, all RAM grenades were<BR>
intercepted by point defense fire.  The loyalist lackeys and part of the<BR>
building they occupied was reduced to glowing rubble by the Mk3's plasma<BR>
gun.<BR>
<BR>
Loyalist grav APC's tried a flanking manuever while the OOOO overwatch<BR>
scout cars swam the river.  A _lucky_ catastrophic hit on the Mk1's<BR>
turret sent it to the bottom of the river.  Chunks of ice, created by<BR>
the Mk1's VRF gauss guns cooling unit, floating down the river were the<BR>
only reminder of those fearless freedom fighters who fought for the<BR>
freedom of the fearful fief-serfs of Mongo.<BR>
<BR>
In the smoke and fog of battle, the OOOO scout cars broke through the<BR>
loyalist counter-reconaissance screen and succesfully locating the<BR>
remaining loyalist infantry.  A combination of HE and flechette fire<BR>
proved effective at destroying or routing half the loyalist infantry<BR>
company when they were caught in the open in the path of the advancing<BR>
scout cars.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps due to insanity induced by imbibing the BGA intoxicant in the<BR>
interval before the battle, or due to the frenzy of fraticide or finding<BR>
fleeing foes before them, the OOOO scout cars overan the infantry and<BR>
were subsequently destroyed by a grav APC that had managed to wander<BR>
into the loyalist rear area.  Our "Order to Oust the Oppresive Overlord"<BR>
comrades who gave their own lives so that others might be free will<BR>
never be forgotten.<BR>
<BR>
Any opposing "official" opinions of this battle by loyalist propaganda<BR>
organs are only attempts to oppress the truth and should be disregarded.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------<BR>
> SITUATION:<BR>
> Mongo rebels, having received information about the whereabouts of<BR>
> Ming's hideout, have sent mercenary reconnaissance units to locate<BR>
> Loyalist military units. Loyalist forces are expected to give stiff<BR>
> resistance.<BR>
> <BR>
> MISSION:<BR>
> Rebel forces will attempt to spot all Loyalist forces around Ming's<BR>
> secret base.<BR>
> Loyalist forces must eliminate Rebel reconnaissance units.<BR>
> <BR>
> ENEMY:<BR>
> Loyalist Reinforced Infantry Company (Conscript)<BR>
>         + Loyalist Grav Tank Platoon (Long Service)<BR>
> Loyalist Secret Police Platoon (Picked)<BR>
> ---------------------------------------------------<BR>
> Rebel hired Mercenary Armored Cavalry Troop (Long Service)<BR>
> <BR>
> SUPPLY:<BR>
> Units with support units represented on the table, or in base, are at<BR>
> 100% supply; units with off table support units represented are at 75%<BR>
> supply; units with no miniature representation of support units are at<BR>
> 50% supply.<BR>
> <BR>
> COMMAND & CONTROL:<BR>
> Due to strong air defense possessed by both sides, no unit may fly in<BR>
> high mode.<BR>
> Loyalist forces start within 50 cm of base (in 100% supply).<BR>
> Rebel forces start within 10 cm of short end of table opposite base.<BR>
> Radio silence is not in effect.<BR>
> Attack will start NLT 11:30Z, 30 September 2000<BR>
> CommandInterWeb requests should be directed to:<BR>
> travellerne@3rd-imperium.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 01:11:39 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Striker at Kristian Miller's<BR>
<BR>
Kristian Miller and I had about six straight hours of solid fun this<BR>
afternoon on Mongo as his rebel recon platoon probed the defenses of my<BR>
loyalist infantry company and attached recon platoon.  Details follow.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 01:11:43 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Battle of Garden City, Mongo/Jewell<BR>
<BR>
Authorized Mongo Defense Force Press Release<BR>
<BR>
Mingo City, Mongo 040-1112:  Bandits crossed the Perfumed River at Garden<BR>
City today, attacking Mongo Defense Force units stationed there.  All<BR>
bandits were killed and all of their vehicles destroyed.  Several MDF<BR>
soldiers were killed and wounded, and one vehicle slightly damaged.<BR>
<BR>
The attack commenced just after dawn, as the five bandit vehicles drove at<BR>
extreme and reckless speed across the hard-packed desert up to the south<BR>
side of the Perfumed River.  Opposing these elements were two infantry<BR>
platoons and a platoon of Minion-class grav recon vehicles.<BR>
<BR>
The MDF infantry took up positions in the ruins of Garden City, while the<BR>
Minions moved to encircle the attackers.  Brave MDF infantry fired rifle<BR>
grenades at some of the invading units, but were ruthlessly cut down by the<BR>
bandits' plasma weapon, after point defense struck down the rifle grenades.<BR>
<BR>
The bandits then launched smoke to hide their nefarious activities, and<BR>
proceeded to cross the river under the smoke's cover.  Meanwhile, two<BR>
Minions crossed the river west of the bandits and engaged them with<BR>
automatic rocket assisted munitions grenade launchers (auto RAM GL) and a<BR>
VRF Gauss gun.  The Minions sank the bandits' point defense vehicle in<BR>
mid-river with a catastrophic to the turret.  Reports were divided as to<BR>
whether the explosion blew the turret off and pushed the vehicle below the<BR>
river, causing it to fill with water and sink, or whether the VRF Gauss<BR>
gun's coolant reservoir was punctured, which made the vehicle's armor<BR>
brittle, so that it broke up under the stress of the river's current.<BR>
<BR>
Four bandits successfully crossed the river under cover of smoke, but ran<BR>
into an ambush set by two Minions.  Two volleys of fire were exchanged, in<BR>
which the bandits' plasma gun vehicle was destroyed and one Minion suffered<BR>
damage to its VRF Gauss gun.  The other bandits then ran north along the<BR>
eastern edge of Snowy Hill and swung around to the west, surprising two<BR>
squads of MDF infantry in the open.  The bandits unleashed the fury of their<BR>
high explosive autocannons, killing and wounding several MDF soldiers and<BR>
non-commissioned officers.<BR>
<BR>
MDF forces returned fire to the extent that line of sight permitted, and<BR>
moved two Minion vehicles into position to attack the bandits.  Sergeant<BR>
Huadee moved his Minions to the west of Snowy Hill, putting itself into the<BR>
expected path of the bandits as they continued marauding.  As  Sergeant<BR>
Huadee expected, the bandits continued their rampage around the western side<BR>
of Snowy Hill, putting themselves directly into the path of the Minion's<BR>
auto RAM GL.  A volley of high explosive armor piercing RAM grenades<BR>
destroyed two of the three remaining bandits.  An anti-tank rifle grenade<BR>
from another MDF squad destroyed the last bandit as it passed the Minion.<BR>
<BR>
Thus did the loyal men and women of the MDF gain a great victory over the<BR>
bandit forces that seek to destabilize and destroy our world.<BR>
<BR>
An interesting aside to this history is the experience of Private Chokdee, a<BR>
member of one of the infantry squads subjected to the bandits' HE rampage.<BR>
The other three members of his fireteam were killed in the volley, either by<BR>
contact or fragmentation hits, but Private Chokdee remained standing.<BR>
Members of the First Platoon watching the engagement from a bunker some<BR>
distance away took to calling him "Mr. Lucky."  Private Chokdee ran into the<BR>
cover of some trees.  Soon thereafter, the bandits passed between him and<BR>
Sergeant Huadee's Minion and Sergeant Huadee opened merciless fire with his<BR>
vehicle's auto RAM GL.  Private Chokdee was unfortunately in the danger<BR>
space, but he knew that he was expendable.  His luck held, however, and he<BR>
avoided any injury from the RAM grenades, thus confirming his new<BR>
appellation of "Mr. Lucky."<BR>
<BR>
Hail Ming!<BR>
<BR>
- -0-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3059<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 17 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3060<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
Re: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
unsubscribe traveller<BR>
unsubscribe traveller<BR>
Imperium Games has gone away<BR>
TML Landgrab - Ficant<BR>
Re : Wilderness refuelling (star skimming)<BR>
Annic Nova (Long)<BR>
RE: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
re: Stellar skimming<BR>
re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Re: Striker Design Question - 4cm RAM Grenades<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Yoyodyne<BR>
yoyodyne<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:33:18 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Weird Place Names PG-Warning<BR>
<BR>
Daniel Phelps wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> "Lizard Lick", "Love Valley", "Fuqua Varina" and "Duck" are all in North<BR>
> Carolina, USA.  My memory says that there is a "Blue Ball" some<BR>
> where on the US east coast and a "Whore House Meadows' in Colorado, USA.<BR>
<BR>
'Lizard Lick' is not neccessarily PG.<BR>
<BR>
I know of at least one place with a similar name which was named after the<BR>
fact that it had crystaline salt deposits that the local wildlife actually<BR>
did go and lick to supplement their  mineral intake.<BR>
<BR>
"Love Valley" is also just as likely named after someone as being a sexual<BR>
reference,<BR>
take the infamous "Love Canal" for instance.<BR>
<BR>
There is also a Black Ball Swamp here in New Zealand. Nothing to do with<BR>
dark-coloured testicles though, but a reference to voting practices in<BR>
certain gentleman's clubs.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 01:38:44 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
<BR>
Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Below is a table describing various nuclear power plants that might be<BR>
> used in GURPS Traveller Modular Starship Design at various GTL, based<BR>
> of figures from the table on VE86 for plants over 5 kilowatts.<BR>
<BR>
What are RTG and NPU reactors?  <BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 16:41:37 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Tempest<BR>
> Sent: Friday, 15 September 2000 9:51 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> I've been thinking about the timing/dates of this, and dug out my own<BR>
> copy of "The Kinunir" to check the references.<BR>
><BR>
> INS Kinunir disappeared in 1088, and was believed lost.<BR>
> In 1089, a scout remembers picking up the Kinunir's beacon in the<BR>
> Shionthy system.<BR>
> In 1105, the Kinunir was still missing.<BR>
> In 1108(?), Norris appeared with a Warrant.<BR>
><BR>
> The thing is, just because Kinunir disappeared from official view in<BR>
> 1088 doesn't mean that that was when the disaster occured.  In fact,<BR>
> one of the rumours in the adventure hints that the ship's loss was<BR>
> faked as a cover story.  Maybe she was put at the special disposal of<BR>
> Naval Intelligence and spent the next 20 years on secret missions and<BR>
> black ops.  Perhaps the Shionthy system was one of her bases (the<BR>
> interdiction and the alleged antimatter asteroids serving to keep out<BR>
> curious visitors).  Either her last mission was to travel to Capital<BR>
> to pick up a warrant for Norris, or she already had one aboard<BR>
> (convenient in the kind of work her captain would be called on to do).<BR>
> This also nicely explains how Norris knew about the Kinunir - perhaps<BR>
> he served on her in his NI days...<BR>
><BR>
> Stephen<BR>
><BR>
Considering the record of Kinunir class vessels built by General shipyards<BR>
would naval intelligence really have wanted one of them? Especially as in<BR>
sectors other than Spinward Marches the type would tend to be unique.<BR>
Whereas the old Azhanti High Lightning class or Regal class battlecruisers<BR>
seem to have been all over the imperium and so would not have attracted as<BR>
much notice despite their greater displacements.<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:33:27 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> I have never seen liquid hydrogen in anyone's lab, probably because it's<BR>
> somewhat dangerous. On the other hand, I've never seen liquid neon either.<BR>
> In fact, it's usually nitrogen or helium. There must be some reason why<BR>
> others aren't used, but I don't know why. Cost?<BR>
<BR>
Neon is (IIRC) rather expensive. Liquid helium is a bit too extreme<BR>
(4K!) to keep around. I don't know about hydrogen, but I suppose that it<BR>
is dangerous for some reason (hydrogen is common, so it shouldn't be<BR>
that expensive). Gaseous hydrogen is regularly kept in labs, so I don't<BR>
think that explosion risk is the problem.<BR>
<BR>
Could someone please enlighten me on this topic?<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:34:34 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> I always wanted to play with liquid helium, but it's hard to justify for<BR>
> most lab uses. ISTR that its heat capacity is extremely low compared to LN,<BR>
> so it doesn't cool things wery well. So unless you absolutely have to have<BR>
> things below 77K, there's really no use for it.<BR>
<BR>
Liquid helium does some really weird things, like flowing upwards to<BR>
reach a lower elevation eventually. I have only been able to read about,<BR>
which is a shame really.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 11:53 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <v04220801b5ea073152ce@[143.232.127.137]><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
One can never be too careful with firearms... I had "Do not point a weapon <BR>
at anyone even in fun" drummed into me in the army. Worked. For the past <BR>
6-7 years I have played a SF LiveAction Roleplay game using 'lasertag' <BR>
weapons, and it has been noticed and commented on that I instinctively <BR>
NEVER muzzle-sweep anyone (and have been known to hit the dirt when <BR>
someone else is less careful)!<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 00:55:54 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
At 19:06 -0400 16/9/00, "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>You don't. You're a northerner. (The only northerner to do any of the above<BR>
>is John Prescott, as all the world knows.)<BR>
><BR>
>You drink bitter, eat pies with gravy and watch Rugby League.<BR>
><BR>
>Nick the southerner<BR>
<BR>
I thought you came from the South-West and that you had cream teas <BR>
and scones with jam, honey and clotted cream, polished with fudge all <BR>
the time?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:56:22 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Nick Bradbeer" <BR>
> You drink bitter, eat pies with gravy and watch Rugby League.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry?  <BR>
<BR>
That would be:  watch Rugby League played badly.<BR>
<BR>
Rugby League is only played well in New South Wales and Queensland, and our<BR>
bitter is better as well.  (A hint:  no Australian drinks Fosters, if they<BR>
have the choice)...<BR>
<BR>
Well, if you really want to know:  my favourite pub is a Guinness pub, but,<BR>
well...<BR>
<BR>
XXXX is foul, but I drink it anyway.  Victoria Bitter (VB) is OK, but I<BR>
don't like it much any more.  Other Australian beers are basically stuff<BR>
you drink in a particular place, but not in general.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:33:04 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
Just for everyone's infotainment, Australia (you know - the country with<BR>
all those nug laws) has won Ah-lympic medals for "blowing stuff away with<BR>
shotguns" and "shootin' stuff with Body Pistols at 10 metres".<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 08:00:55 EDT<BR>
From: Olegamer@aol.com<BR>
Subject: unsubscribe traveller<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe traveller<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 08:01:38 EDT<BR>
From: Olegamer@aol.com<BR>
Subject: unsubscribe traveller<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe traveller<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 14:31:28 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Imperium Games has gone away<BR>
<BR>
Finally, the Imperium Games website has gone away for good. I think it<BR>
is finally time to remove it from all the link pages out there.<BR>
<BR>
I wonder what kept the website up for so long after the company shut<BR>
down?<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:42:05 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: TML Landgrab - Ficant<BR>
<BR>
Ficant 1417/Vilis E567353-5 Lo NiN 910 M0V MD<BR>
<BR>
System Details<BR>
Age: 2 Billion years<BR>
Primary: Netali M0V<BR>
Companion: Netali Bis Dwarf M orbiting at 10 AU (10% eccentricity)<BR>
0.35 AU: Terrestrial world - Ficant<BR>
0.75 AU: Terrestrial world - Netali II<BR>
1.15 AU: Terrestrial world - Netali III<BR>
1.95 AU: Terrestrial world - Netali IV<BR>
3.35  AU: Planetiod Belt<BR>
<BR>
World Details - Ficant<BR>
Moons: Nil<BR>
Orbital Eccentricity: 0.02<BR>
Diameter: 8,402 km (5,222 mls)<BR>
Density: 5.1g/cucm<BR>
Mass: 0.264 Earth<BR>
Gravity: 0.609g (5.97m/s/s)<BR>
Orbital Period: 106.954 Std days (35.651 local days)<BR>
Sidereal Day: 70.036 Standard hours<BR>
Local Day: 72.000 Standard hours<BR>
Axial Tilt: 5<BR>
Atmospheric Pressure: 1.1 Earth<BR>
Atmospheric Gasses: Nitrogen 76.5% Oxygen 22.7% Other 0.7%<BR>
Hydrosphere: 69%<BR>
Albedo: 0.250<BR>
Greenhouse Factor: 0.295<BR>
Temperature: 5.277 C (41.169 F)<BR>
Local Ecosystem: Simple Animals, nearly identical with Earth norm<BR>
Resources: Average (very poor in hydrocarbons)<BR>
World Trade Number: 2<BR>
Per Capita Income: Cr716<BR>
GWP: MCr 6.623<BR>
<BR>
INTORDUCTION AND HISTORY<BR>
Ficant is an unremarkable Imperial world near the Sword Worlds border. It <BR>
orbits Netali, an main sequence M0 class star at a distance of 0.35AU. <BR>
Netali is only 2 billion years old and has a white dwarf companion (Netali <BR>
bis) orbiting at 10AU.<BR>
<BR>
Ficant is a small world with oceans covering 69% of its surface. Despite its <BR>
cool climate it does not posses extensive polar ice caps as none of its five <BR>
continents are located in the polar regions, thus preventing their formation. <BR>
This lack of ice caps has contributed to keeping its overall albedo low and <BR>
results in a climate far warmer than would normally be expected. One <BR>
curious fact is its surprisingly high atmospheric pressure given its small <BR>
size, but like much on the world, this has not yet been investigated and no <BR>
plausible explanation has been advanced.<BR>
<BR>
Ficant's youth has prevented it from become tidally locked to its primary. <BR>
However it is expected that it will become tidally locked within the next 500 <BR>
million years, at which point its atmosphere's volatiles will freeze out on the <BR>
night side and the planet will die. Despite this, the world has evolved a <BR>
thriving ecosystem with a wide range of primitive flora and fauna (very <BR>
roughly equivalent to Earth's Carboniferous period) and is of considerable <BR>
interest to biologists.<BR>
<BR>
Human colonisation has been limited to one of the smaller continents <BR>
straddling the equator. The first human settlers are thought to have arrived <BR>
around 450. It is not known for certain were these settlers came from, as <BR>
this was not an organised colonisation effort, but it is believed that they <BR>
originated from the Sword Worlds. This disorganised settlement continued <BR>
for the next 150 years and by 600 the population had grown to around <BR>
1,000.<BR>
<BR>
It was during the First Frontier War that the world first came to official <BR>
notice. At this time a substantial proportion of the population was of Sword <BR>
Worlds decent and Imperial forces came to regard it as a potential security <BR>
threat. In 596. Grand Admiral Plankwell ordered Ficant's annexation. With <BR>
its incorporation into the Imperium an official colonisation program was <BR>
envisaged and in 602 1,500 Imperial colonists arrived. It was intended that <BR>
these were to be just the first wave of an intensive colonisation program, <BR>
but with the outbreak of the Civil War this program was abandoned and no <BR>
further official colonisation was to ever take place. From this point onwards, <BR>
Ficant lapsed back into obscurity. Despite this official apathy, Ficant's <BR>
population has continued to grow slowly and according to the census of <BR>
1120, it has a population of 9,250.<BR>
<BR>
FLORA AND FAUNA<BR>
Ficant's indigenous life has only developed to a primitive state. As might be expected, life on Ficant originated in the seas and they now posses a rich variety of life forms. However, the "invasion" of the land has only <BR>
just begun and Ficant has few native land animals other than invertebrates. Much of the planet's landmass is covered by massive bogs and swamps of tree sized spore propagating plants (similar to terrestrial club-mosses, f<BR>
erns and horsetails). Forests of primitive seeding trees dominate the remainder. It is expected that the world's combination of low gravity and high atmospheric pressure will lead to the evolution of a wide variety of ari<BR>
el life, but as yet only a few species have taken to the air (mostly invertebrates). This combination of low gravity and high pressure has also lead to the evolution of a number of triphibian creatures.<BR>
<BR>
Ficant's swamps and bogs teem with life. The wetlands are covered in a thick layer of rich decaying organic material and support a vast array of creatures; ranging from tiny invertebrates to massive amphibians such as the<BR>
 Arngalds. This dense organic soup also produces a number of valuable chemical compounds and provides the planet's sole source of off-world income. Much of the world remains unexplored and only a tiny hand-full of Ficant'<BR>
s creatures has yet been classified.<BR>
<BR>
Despite the scarcity of large land animals, Ficant's has a diverse range of amphibian creatures, some of which grow to quite respectable size. Many of these amphibians are aggressive carnivores and travel through these ar<BR>
eas can be quite hazardous. The largest thus far discovered is the Svensson's Arngald. This creature can grow up to 18 meters in length and mass over 300 kilograms and has no hesitation in attacking humans.<BR>
<BR>
In addition to its native flora and fauna, several species of off-world plants and animals have been introduced (either deliberately or by accident). These off-world species have thrived on Ficant and indeed are replacing<BR>
 many native species around the areas of human settlement. Recently Ficant's Governing Council introduced strict control on the importation of off-world life forms in an attempt to protect the native ecosystem.<BR>
<BR>
HUMAN HABITATION<BR>
Human settlement on Ficant is limited to the lush equatorial coastal swamps. Here warm ocean currents combine with the equatorial climate to produce a pleasant Earth like environment. The biological basis of Ficant's life<BR>
 is extremely similar to that of Terra and all human dietary needs can be met from the local ecosystem. Most of Ficant's inhabitants make their living by harvesting the rich organics found in the equatorial swamps.<BR>
<BR>
The largest settlement on Ficant is Atterdag, location of the world's E class starport. Atterdag is quiet agricultural town of some 2,400 inhabitants. Located here is the entirety of the world's limited manufacturing capa<BR>
city, which consists of a few light-engineering workshops. Atterdag's economy is based around servicing the needs of the planet's widely spread population. It is also the seat of the Ficant Governing Council, providing Fi<BR>
cant with administrative services and handling offworld contacts.<BR>
<BR>
The majority of the population lives in backcountry homesteads and makes their living extracting valuable organic material from Ficant's coastal swamps. The usual homestead consists of a single family of two to three adul<BR>
ts with a similar number of children. Usually four or five homesteads will be clustered in the same general area and they will share harvesting grounds and pool resources to increase their efficiency.<BR>
<BR>
The people of Ficant are generally conservative and honest. Having little <BR>
contact with offworld culture they appear to most uninformed travellers as <BR>
either quaint or hopelessly insular, caring little for technological <BR>
advancement or personal aggrandisement. This opinion is mistaken. Most <BR>
natives see the advantages of high tech tools, but the world's restricted <BR>
industrial base severely limits its usefulness. Many Ficant natives travel <BR>
offworld to attend higher education and the world has a strong tradition of <BR>
military service (approximately 35% of the world's population has served a <BR>
term or two in the Imperial armed forces). However, most of the population <BR>
are content with their lives and find the faster pace of Imperial culture <BR>
unsettling and consequently prefer to remain at home.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, Sep 18 2000 1:34:18 GMT+1100<BR>
From: robocon@ozemail.com.au<BR>
Subject: Re : Wilderness refuelling (star skimming)<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote :-<BR>
> Unfortunately, the Corona is much, much hotter than the surface,<BR>
> and you need to go through a couple of million km of it to get to<BR>
> the surface.<BR>
<BR>
Non-problem, as Leonard as noted in passing.<BR>
The Voyager probes passed through particle showers around<BR>
Jupiter with temps of ~10^8 K without event.<BR>
<BR>
The corona is about 10^(-12) as dense as air (a thousand times<BR>
more dense than the stuff around Jupiter), as I wrote in an earlier<BR>
post. It's hardly there at all.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:39:33 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Annic Nova (Long)<BR>
<BR>
ANNIC NOVA TYPE<BR>
The origins of this rather gothic looking starship remain unknown. All<BR>
information has been taken from or extrapolated from artefacts recovered<BR>
from the ship or theorised from what was found or expected, but not found on<BR>
the vessel.<BR>
<BR>
Facts<BR>
1. The Annic Nova does not have a nuclear power plant on board.<BR>
2. The ship does have extensive batteries and a folding solar collector.<BR>
3. The ship was fitted with two docking rings for small craft and grapples<BR>
for a third aft of the cargo bay.<BR>
4. One of the jump drive units is capable of jump-3.<BR>
5. The ships computer is 3x mass but capable of performing jump-3<BR>
calculations.<BR>
<BR>
Extrapolation/Theory etc<BR>
1. In FFS1 the jump-3 capacity implies a minimum tech level of 12 for the<BR>
Annic Nova.<BR>
2. In view of the lack of a nuclear power plant I decided that IMTU the<BR>
vessels jump drives were also not nuclear powered. (They are powered from<BR>
batteries which charge the HPG generators attached to each jump unit)<BR>
3. The technology shown in the two small craft recovered with the ship are<BR>
not consistent with the technology of the ship itself. Extrapolation, these<BR>
were not the original craft.<BR>
4. IMTU the extra mass of the computer is the result of decoration. (Picture<BR>
Victorian style florid designs added to a basically normal computer, which<BR>
is in keeping with the design and tone of the adventure the ship originated<BR>
in.)<BR>
5. In FFS1 batteries at TL12 are still bulky, result the ships batteries can<BR>
power the ship on maximum power drain for 198 hours.<BR>
6. The deployed area of the solar collector panels are huge, (they have to<BR>
be able to recharge the vessels battery faster than normal drain)<BR>
7. Firing the two turret lasers will severely deplete battery level.<BR>
<BR>
Fudge<BR>
Main Fudge: The solar array required for the Annic Nova greatly exceeds the<BR>
hull surface area. (The FFS1 errata stated than an EMS passive folding array<BR>
could be fitted into 10% of its deployed surface area, however this is still<BR>
not sufficient. Figuring that a solar array could be crammed into a much<BR>
smaller area, IMTU it can fold down to 2% of its deployed area.<BR>
<BR>
Lesser Fudge: The fusion reactor could be deleted from a jump drive and<BR>
replaced with alternate power sources.<BR>
<BR>
The FFS1 version of the Annic Nova will be on my web site shortly, I will<BR>
let you know when and where.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 07:58:30 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
<BR>
RTG = Radiothermal Generators (Use a thermoelectric system to convert<BR>
fission heat to electricity rather then the old clunky steam turbines.)<BR>
NPU = Nuclar Power Unit (More efficient above. May also include 'cold<BR>
fusion')<BR>
<BR>
Paraphrased from G:Ve Page 86<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 1:39 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Below is a table describing various nuclear power plants that might be<BR>
> used in GURPS Traveller Modular Starship Design at various GTL, based<BR>
> of figures from the table on VE86 for plants over 5 kilowatts.<BR>
<BR>
What are RTG and NPU reactors?<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 08:15:23 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 16 Sep 2000, Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Just remember that if you leave a wide shallow container of liquid<BR>
> > nitrogen exposed to the air it'll condense oxygen (which has a higher<BR>
> > boiling point) out of the air. Thus, afdter a while the liquid has a<BR>
> > bluish tinge because it's now LOX!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > *Very* dangerous situation.<BR>
> <BR>
> I have never witnessed this, although I have watched several open containers<BR>
> of LN boil off. In my experience, the LN doesn't just sit there, is boils<BR>
> quite vigorously, and is gone very quickly, so I doubt that there's any<BR>
> serious safety problem. In fact, it's a bit tricky to get a container full<BR>
> of LN to watch boil away, any you never quite know how much is in your cup<BR>
> because of the water vapor clouds you get.<BR>
<BR>
Neither have I, and we've done that quite a bit, along with fun stuff like<BR>
grinding things in mortars full of LN2. (When you have to catch unstable<BR>
DNA adducts in situ, this is the only way to break up the tissues so as<BR>
to preserve the adducts.)<BR>
<BR>
The most dangerous part of that (other than splashing yourself with LN2<BR>
which stings like hell) is the horrid nails-on-chalkboard sound the<BR>
process makes. <BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 08:26:24 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 17 Sep 2000, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> > I have never seen liquid hydrogen in anyone's lab, probably because it's<BR>
> > somewhat dangerous. On the other hand, I've never seen liquid neon either.<BR>
> > In fact, it's usually nitrogen or helium. There must be some reason why<BR>
> > others aren't used, but I don't know why. Cost?<BR>
> <BR>
> Neon is (IIRC) rather expensive. Liquid helium is a bit too extreme<BR>
> (4K!) to keep around. I don't know about hydrogen, but I suppose that it<BR>
> is dangerous for some reason (hydrogen is common, so it shouldn't be<BR>
> that expensive). Gaseous hydrogen is regularly kept in labs, so I don't<BR>
> think that explosion risk is the problem.<BR>
> <BR>
> Could someone please enlighten me on this topic?<BR>
<BR>
Well, gaseous hydrogen can safely be kept in tanks, something difficult to<BR>
do economically with LH2, as most systems use evaporation of some<BR>
of the liquid gas to maintain the gas in a liquid state (at least in<BR>
lab-sized containers...almost all of them are basically dewar flasks of<BR>
one sort or another.) This means that there is a constant venting of a<BR>
fair quantity of H2. Usually that means a BOOM somewhere along the line.<BR>
This is also why it's rare to find liquid oxygen in labs, too.<BR>
<BR>
H2 in a tank is realtively safe as the vast majority of uses of H2 in a<BR>
lab call for it in small quantities, such as bubbling through a small<BR>
reaction flask, or being burned in a detector flame on a gas<BR>
chromatograph, or atomic spectrophotometer. The latter often use nitrous<BR>
oxide as well. One lab I worked in we had someone go quietly nuts; the<BR>
last week he was there he was mostly sitting in the corner by the Nitrous<BR>
tank, giggling. <BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:44:01 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Stellar skimming<BR>
<BR>
At 4:11 -0400 17/9/00, Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:<BR>
>ian Banks' novel _Consider Phlebas_, which involves a prolonged<BR>
>interstellar war between nearly matched opponent powers whose technology<BR>
>would probably rate as old-style-Traveller tech 25 or so, includes a scene<BR>
>in which a warship is ambushed by a vessel hiding in the local star's<BR>
>photosphere.  "They're not supposed to be able to do that", grumbles the<BR>
>captain as his ship is hammered to pieces.<BR>
<BR>
The recent Banks interview in SFX had something about the fact that <BR>
the technology in the Culture novels was more based on what was cool, <BR>
rather than science. I'll try and dig it up (I think he also <BR>
describes the Culture as 'Hippies with Nukes' at one point).<BR>
<BR>
The interview had a fair bit about the new novel 'Look to Windward' <BR>
(which I'm currently reading) and also mentioned that he is taking a <BR>
years sabbatical from writing - he's starting to find the turn around <BR>
of new books slow (he described LtW as a 2 month book that took 3 <BR>
months). So no new Banks contemporary fiction or SF for eighteen <BR>
months at least :-(<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:49:45 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
"Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I'm slowly working on porting HGS to other OS, but I don't have access to<BR>
>a Pascal compilier for Mac. Can anyone recommend a good one?<BR>
<BR>
Why not talk to Rob Prior - I think he codes in Pascal and was also <BR>
at one point looking for people to go the other way (Mac to PC). <BR>
robert_prior@sympatico.ca<BR>
<BR>
If you need MacOS testers, let me know.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 08:55:27 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker Design Question - 4cm RAM Grenades<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
>Subject: Striker Design Question - 4cm RAM Grenades<BR>
><BR>
>Does anyone know why RAM grenades have such a high penetration versus<BR>
>any other 4cm HEAP round at the same Tech Level?  <BR>
<BR>
  It probably represents the advantages in package geometry available to<BR>
very low velocity rounds.<BR>
<BR>
>For a TL 10 4cm RAM grenade, its as if the designer counted down 10 rows<BR>
>instead of 5 (or maybe 10 cm of bore size).  This gives that grenade a<BR>
>penetration of 32 versus 21.<BR>
><BR>
>Was there an errata for this?<BR>
<BR>
  AFAIK, no; not per JTAS 12, anyway.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:49:31 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 4:11 -0400 17/9/00, "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu> wrote:<BR>
>I just finished watching the episode of South Park where they<BR>
>take the boy hunting for the first time and advise them; "Don't<BR>
>point a gun at anyone unless the safety is on".  I'm beginning<BR>
>to think you are going to tell me that isn't an authoritative<BR>
>source on gun safety!  (Its the same one where they are threating<BR>
>each other with cocked guns and they are remonstrated for<BR>
>almost spilling their beers.)<BR>
<BR>
"Look out! It's come right at us!"<BR>
<BR>
That's been used by Traveller players in my games ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 09:17:17 -0700<BR>
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-deja.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
>>Subject: Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>>>> Has anyone else come up with a variant<BR>
>>>> similar to this as well. I recall seeing somewhere<BR>
>>>> a write up on the Kontrin from CJ Cherryh.<BR>
>>> <BR>
<BR>
Another unpleasant surprise would be Morthans from David Gerrold's 'Star Wolf' books. <BR>
Put them AND a Draka variant in the same universe and things get very interesting indeed.<BR>
Now, I just hope my players aren't on the list to see this.<BR>
<BR>
ALO<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--<BR>
Before you buy.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 09:19:58 -0700<BR>
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-deja.com><BR>
Subject: yoyodyne<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 17:21:38 -0400<BR>
>From: Justin Kim <justinki@bellatlantic.net><BR>
>Subject: re: Yoyodyne<BR>
><BR>
>At 10:34 AM -0700 9/14/00, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Wasn't Yoyodyne also in Robocop?  It made the robotic police units.  Did it<BR>
>>have a motto of "more human than human"?  Who had that motto?<BR>
><BR>
>	The company in Robocop was Omni Consumer Products.  The motto <BR>
>came from Blade Runner's Tyrell Corporation.<BR>
><BR>
>Justin<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Yoyodyne was the name of the company in "Buckaroo Banzai".<BR>
ALO<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--<BR>
Before you buy.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 17:54:20 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> I thought you came from the South-West and that you had cream teas <BR>
> and scones with jam, honey and clotted cream, polished with fudge all <BR>
> the time?<BR>
> Dom<BR>
<BR>
I do, and we do.<BR>
<BR>
I guess that's why I'm so overweight. <g><BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3060<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3061</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/17/00 2:34:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 17 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3061<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Imperium Games has gone away<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Low tech battledress<BR>
RE: Striker Miniatures<BR>
Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
Nasties<BR>
Fun with acronyms.<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
Re: force fields<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
Black Curtain<BR>
I want to ride my bicycle.<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
Re: I want to ride my bicycle.<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 17:55:24 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> Just for everyone's infotainment, Australia (you know - the country with<BR>
> all those nug laws) has won Ah-lympic medals for "blowing stuff away with<BR>
> shotguns" and "shootin' stuff with Body Pistols at 10 metres".<BR>
<BR>
Yeap. And Britain, the other country with all them oppressive firearms laws<BR>
came second in the 'blowing stuff away with shotguns' contest.<BR>
<BR>
Makes you wonder, no?<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 09:42:10<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Imperium Games has gone away<BR>
<BR>
At 02:31 PM 9/17/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>
>Finally, the Imperium Games website has gone away for good. I think it<BR>
>is finally time to remove it from all the link pages out there.<BR>
><BR>
>I wonder what kept the website up for so long after the company shut<BR>
>down?<BR>
<BR>
What was frightening was that somebody was maintaining it, off and on.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 09:46:03<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 11:53 AM 9/17/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>One can never be too careful with firearms...<BR>
<BR>
One of the nicest compliments I've gotten in years came last year at Mark<BR>
Cook's house.  He was showing us his weapons, and handed me his M-16.  I<BR>
instinctively checked the chamber, and he remarked that it was nice to deal<BR>
with people who knew what they were doing.<BR>
<BR>
When I teach people about weapons, I tell them that every weapon is loaded<BR>
until you see the empty chamber yourself.  And the moment you can't see the<BR>
chamber, it's loaded again.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 09:53:56<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
At 03:54 PM 9/16/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Heck with chem class (though that is a nice little demo); remember the<BR>
>Hindenberg.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, most of the Hinderburg's problems started with the extremely<BR>
explosive paint they used.  The hydrogen burn off was a secondary problem.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 10:41:49<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Low tech battledress<BR>
<BR>
I'm passing on a request for Tom Bont.<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone done a suit of battledress for GURPS Traveller at a lower TL<BR>
than 11-12?<BR>
<BR>
If so, please mail the stats to him at:<BR>
<BR>
TomBont@home.com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 10:57:26 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Striker Miniatures<BR>
<BR>
>From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: Striker Miniatures<BR>
><BR>
>Steve's prices are MUCH BETTER. It's like that commercial for long distance<BR>
>phone companies that was on TV several years back; which price do you want<BR>
>to pay, the high one or the low one?<BR>
<BR>
  But my remaining selection isn't so hot - APC/IFV's are down to modern<BR>
French & Chinese only, for example. OTOH, at least you can use them as<BR>
SF /o everyone and their dog recognizing them...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:08:50 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
<BR>
I was reading a timeline on someone's website. It said the Zhodani Exodus<BR>
began in 1201.<BR>
Is this canon? If so what caused it? VIRUS? <BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:11:23 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Nasties<BR>
<BR>
At 09:17 AM 9/17/00 -0700, A O'Mary wrote:<BR>
>>>Subject: Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
<BR>
>Another unpleasant surprise would be Morthans from David Gerrold's 'Star<BR>
Wolf' books. <BR>
>Put them AND a Draka variant in the same universe and things get very<BR>
interesting indeed.<BR>
>Now, I just hope my players aren't on the list to see this.<BR>
<BR>
Why not throw in the Kzinti and the Moties while you're at it?<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:18:59 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Fun with acronyms.<BR>
<BR>
At 07:58 AM 9/17/00 -0700, someone wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>NPU = Nuclar Power Unit (More efficient above. May also include 'cold<BR>
>fusion')<BR>
<BR>
Cold Fusion and related phenomena, a.k.a. Low Energy Nuclear Reactions.<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone esle seen INFINITE ENERGY magazine? <BR>
<BR>
http://www.infinite-energy.com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:44:44 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 6:02 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > We all wear Bowlers and pin-stripe suits, carry copies of the Times and<BR>
> long<BR>
> > black umbrellas, and catch the Clapham Omnibus, the 7:35 to Paddington,<BR>
> the<BR>
> > Tube, Hackney Carriages, or are chauffer driven in Rollers or Jags,<BR>
> don'cha<BR>
> > know!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Matt<BR>
><BR>
> You don't. You're a northerner. (The only northerner to do any of the<BR>
above<BR>
> is John Prescott, as all the world knows.)<BR>
><BR>
> You drink bitter, eat pies with gravy and watch Rugby League.<BR>
><BR>
> Nick the southerner<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I was born in Kent, drink lager, and prefer Union to League, but<BR>
the pies and gravy is spot on <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
(Southern by birth, but lived in Yorkshire since I was 7)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:47:28 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 1:54 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > I thought you came from the South-West and that you had cream teas <BR>
> > and scones with jam, honey and clotted cream, polished with fudge all <BR>
> > the time?<BR>
> > Dom<BR>
> <BR>
> I do, and we do.<BR>
> <BR>
> I guess that's why I'm so overweight. <g><BR>
> <BR>
> Nick<BR>
<BR>
LOL<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:52:24 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Craig Berry" <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 11:54 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 04:45:17 +0200<BR>
> > From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> > > Incidentally, anyone know what would happen if you poured liquid<BR>
hydrogen on<BR>
> > > charcoal, in the presence of a heat source?  I suspect you might get a<BR>
lot<BR>
> > > of hot methane (and then a fireball as it burned in the atmosphere)<BR>
but<BR>
> > > I really don't know.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > If you have oxygen present (as in 'air'), you'd get an explosion<BR>
> > instead. Remember chemistry classes? Mix oxygen and hydrogen, ignite...<BR>
> > BOOM.<BR>
><BR>
> Heck with chem class (though that is a nice little demo); remember the<BR>
> Hindenberg.  It should be noted, however, that H2/O2 explosions don't pack<BR>
<BR>
As recent research has shown, the Hindenberg disaster was due less to the<BR>
burning hydrogen (as its design incorporated adequate vents for this to<BR>
escape by, but for more to the fact that the aluminised doping of the fabric<BR>
covers had approxinately the same composition as solid rocket fuel...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:02:10 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Leslie Bates" <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 9:08 PM<BR>
Subject: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I was reading a timeline on someone's website. It said the Zhodani Exodus<BR>
> began in 1201.<BR>
> Is this canon? If so what caused it? VIRUS? <BR>
> <BR>
> Les<BR>
<BR>
Empress Wave <a concept I heartily dislike...><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 11:39:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: force fields<BR>
<BR>
In mail, rgd@infinet.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> On 15 Sep 00, at 22:41, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>> It'd be interesting to see a list of these things and either the <BR>
>>> reasons to not include it or the handwaves to use for Traveller-type <BR>
>>> universes.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Glad to hear you volunteering to maintain the list. <eg><BR>
><BR>
> <looking behind at the row of others who have just stepped <BR>
> backwards...><BR>
> I'll start putting something together.  May not be fast or pretty <BR>
> (and will likely result in more questions on the list).<BR>
<BR>
Hey, it'll be *worth* it to get the answers to these frequently asked<BR>
questions recorded.<BR>
 <BR>
>>> Hmm, even if the range is limited to that of grav plates? (i.e. one <BR>
>>> deck height?)  <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Well, the way some of us avoid these problems is by having artificial<BR>
>> gravity exist between *paired* plates. Makes life a lot simpler.<BR>
><BR>
> That works for me.  What about air/rafts and grav tanks? (I suppose <BR>
> that's CONTRA-gravity and not artificial gravity, eh?)<BR>
<BR>
Yep. It reacts against a natural grav field.<BR>
<BR>
>> 100 tons = 100e6 kg. <BR>
>> 1e8 * (3e8)^2 = 9e24 <BR>
>> That's over 2 *billion* megatons. Will into the "dinosaur killer" range.<BR>
><BR>
> <speechless><BR>
<BR>
Truck bombers don't have *anything* on a suicidal terrorist with a<BR>
spaceship. <BR>
<BR>
This is why I keep saying that most STC (Space Traffic Control) setups<BR>
assign courses such that at no time except during landing or docking<BR>
will a ship's course vector (both the one for "continue to accelerate<BR>
at current accel", and for "coast") be allowed to intersect the planet<BR>
or any orbital facilities. <BR>
<BR>
Attempting the establish a vector that *will* intersect is a felony and<BR>
carries a death penalty (ie they'll try to blow you up while there's<BR>
time for the pieces to spread enough to limit the damage).<BR>
<BR>
> Time for a beer.<BR>
<BR>
Yep.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:12:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Actually, it's hard to justify if you need stuff above 20K. After all,<BR>
>> LH2 will get you to *that*.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Nitrogen 77K<BR>
>> Neon     27K<BR>
>> Hydrogen 20K<BR>
>> Helium    4K<BR>
><BR>
> I have never seen liquid hydrogen in anyone's lab, probably because it's<BR>
> somewhat dangerous. On the other hand, I've never seen liquid neon either.<BR>
> In fact, it's usually nitrogen or helium. There must be some reason why<BR>
> others aren't used, but I don't know why. Cost?<BR>
<BR>
Probably. But I vaguely recall seeing references to it being used in<BR>
some experiments. <BR>
<BR>
As I recall, it, like argon and krypton (and maybe Xenon) is produced<BR>
as a "byproduct" of distilling liquid air for LOX and LN.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:23:59 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
<BR>
And, because GDW went belly up, we'll never know what was behind the<BR>
Empress Wave -- or the Black Curtain, for that matter.  So many<BR>
mysteries left unsolved, and so few clues ...<BR>
<BR>
- --- Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> From: "Leslie Bates" <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 9:08 PM<BR>
> Subject: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > I was reading a timeline on someone's website. It said the Zhodani<BR>
> Exodus<BR>
> > began in 1201.<BR>
> > Is this canon? If so what caused it? VIRUS? <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Les<BR>
> <BR>
> Empress Wave <a concept I heartily dislike...><BR>
> <BR>
> Matt<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:44:33 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
on 9/16/00 9:27 PM, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance at a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm slowly working on porting HGS to other OS, but I don't have access to<BR>
> a Pascal compilier for Mac. Can anyone recommend a good one?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Just rewrite for RealBasic, then you can crosscompile for both mac and win.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:17:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 10:11:59<BR>
>> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>> <BR>
>> This was at the end of the day, and all the ROs were standing with Mark.<BR>
>> the idiot in question was bagging his weapon and casually swept the muzzle<BR>
>> right over us.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> You could spot the veterans *real* quick.<BR>
><BR>
> When my wife was about ten years old, her parents took her out into the<BR>
> boonies to teach her basic pistol skills.  She was a bright and impatient<BR>
> kid, and eager to shoot something, so she fidgeted and nodded and yes-of-<BR>
> course-Dad'ed through all the demonstrations, and the endlessly repeated<BR>
> instructions.  Finally, the big moment came.  Dad loaded the pistol with a<BR>
> single round, handed it to her already pointed down-range, and told her to<BR>
> take her shot at the target (a coffee can, IIRC), then *freeze in place*<BR>
> until Dad came to collect the pistol.  At this point she was ticked at<BR>
> having this sort of thing repeated like she was an idiot or something, but<BR>
> she agreed once more, took the pistol, aimed...and blew the coffee can<BR>
> away.  Thrilled, she jumped into the air, spun around screaming "I hit it! <BR>
> I hit it!" -- and in the process swept the barrel over Mom and Dad twice. <BR>
> They hit the dirt instinctively, even though the pistol was unloaded at<BR>
> that point...better to have the reflex, of course.  Needless to say, she<BR>
> was pretty chagrined when she realized what she'd done.  It's still one of<BR>
> the more popular family-gathering stories. :) <BR>
<BR>
Now you know one of the reasons *why* the summer camp I learned to<BR>
shoot at only allowed us to fire the rifles from the *prone* position. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:08:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, most of the Hinderburg's problems started with the extremely<BR>
> explosive paint they used.  The hydrogen burn off was a secondary<BR>
problem.<BR>
<BR>
Essentially thermite, wasn't it? And then wet cords holding a fabric panel<BR>
which was heavily charged due to flying through a storm. The discharge arc<BR>
set the panel alight, which flared (being thermite) and spread to the<BR>
neighbouring panels almost instantly.<BR>
<BR>
The eyewitness accounts agree that the fireball was orange (and hydrogen<BR>
burns blue). It wasn't until a few years ago that somebody figured out the<BR>
probable cause.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:10:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, I was born in Kent, drink lager, and prefer Union to League,<BR>
but<BR>
> the pies and gravy is spot on <g><BR>
> Matt<BR>
<BR>
Dammit, stick to your stereotype.<BR>
<BR>
I'm off to get a scone and some tea.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:55:28<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
<BR>
At 12:23 PM 9/17/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>And, because GDW went belly up, we'll never know what was behind the<BR>
>Empress Wave -- or the Black Curtain, for that matter.  So many<BR>
>mysteries left unsolved, and so few clues ...<BR>
<BR>
The Empress Wave was started by the Queen Mum celebrating her<BR>
umpteen-thousandsth birthday in the Core.  The universe couldn't take one<BR>
more open-handed wave from this little old royal, and the shockwave is<BR>
devastating the galaxy.<BR>
<BR>
The Black Curtain was caused by the AI version of Roger S**nger seizing the<BR>
copyrights to most of the worlds, people, and stellar phenomena in the<BR>
region.  Unless he's paid a mountain of money, we'll never be able to use<BR>
those worlds again.  He may have overstepped his play, though, as an<BR>
ancient Terran gaming company has charged him with trademark violation for<BR>
his use of terms like Nazi(tm), planet(TM), human(tm), dice(tm), etc...<BR>
<BR>
Glad to help.  Loren, if anybody takes this seriously, I will smack them<BR>
upside the head with a large trout.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 17:43:37 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Black Curtain<BR>
<BR>
At 12:23 PM 9/17/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>And, because GDW went belly up, we'll never know what was behind the<BR>
>Empress Wave -- or the Black Curtain, for that matter.  So many<BR>
>mysteries left unsolved, and so few clues ...<BR>
><BR>
>--- Matthew Bond <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
I assumed the Black Curtain was the external manefestation of Lucan's<BR>
prepositioned (propalactic?) defense against Virus. After all, it was his<BR>
boffins who cooked up the bloody thing.<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 17:49:08 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: I want to ride my bicycle.<BR>
<BR>
At 02:43 AM 9/17/00 EDT, sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>yeah, but you make a REALLY cool folding bicycle called the Brompton. <BR>
>Unfortunately, at 800-1000$ US (depending on options) it's pricy as<BR>
heck...:-(<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like something one may find in a ship's locker. <BR>
<BR>
$800 to $1000 converts to what in Imperial Credits.<BR>
<BR>
Should BICYCLE be included as a learnable skill?<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:43:56 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
At 12:50 -0400 17/9/00,  Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times wrote:<BR>
>Rugby League is only played well in New South Wales and Queensland, and our<BR>
>bitter is better as well.  (A hint:  no Australian drinks Fosters, if they<BR>
>have the choice)...<BR>
<BR>
Hint - Fosters is lager, not bitter. Or at least it is in the UK.<BR>
<BR>
>Well, if you really want to know:  my favourite pub is a Guinness pub, but,<BR>
>well...<BR>
<BR>
I'd go Guinness (especially extra cold version), Murphys, Caffrys and <BR>
then it becomes harder but 6X and Directors aren't too bad.<BR>
<BR>
>XXXX is foul, but I drink it anyway.  Victoria Bitter (VB) is OK, but I<BR>
>don't like it much any more.  Other Australian beers are basically stuff<BR>
>you drink in a particular place, but not in general.<BR>
<BR>
Isn't that why it's called XXXX?<BR>
<BR>
Dom ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:55:57 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
<BR>
At 15:39 +0000 1/9/00, VALAMIR@aol.com wrote:<BR>
>Ture, and there are a few indie companies jumping on the d20 bandwagon using<BR>
>the open license to make a quick buck too.  But I wouldn't be too worried.<BR>
>D&D has ALWAYS dominated roleplaying.  Thanks to the efforts of the RPGA<BR>
>there are always twice as many AD&D games at a con as there are all other<BR>
>RPGs combined (and there are almost never any GURPs being played at a con<BR>
>BTW).  That isn't going to change.   But its always been that way.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting. At GenCon UK there is (and was) the usual basis of <BR>
calling the D&D games first and making everyone else wait. However, <BR>
BITS had quite a big demo space and usually had one game (GURPS <BR>
Traveller or T4.x) in every slot, sometimes three. Upstairs from our <BR>
hall, the MiB group seemed to be runnng at least two GURPS games of <BR>
different flavours in every slot.<BR>
<BR>
I was happy to pick up a non-D20 copy of Dune (even though it was too <BR>
expensive really). Having seen some of the D20 stuff I'm pretty <BR>
certain I don't want to use it for SF. And probably not fantasy (hero <BR>
wars  or GURPS Myth for me, or modified 7th Sea). However, I do <BR>
believe that one of the Star Wars RPG designers is involved in the <BR>
WotC version, and that it will have conversion notes.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 17:30:51 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
I've been thinking about running a campaign in the Beyond and/or <BR>
the Vanguard Reaches, and was wondering where (if anywhere) to go <BR>
for canonical information regarding these places.  I took a look<BR>
at "www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol/traveller/space/index.html",<BR>
and saw that the Beyond had already been mapped out, and divided<BR>
between nearly a dozen pocket-sized empires.  A couple of these<BR>
looked canonical (the Aslan region in sector's rimward/trailing <BR>
corner also shows up on the map on the inside of the back cover<BR>
of the old Classic Traveller alien module regarding the Aslan,<BR>
and according to "home.flash.net/~grazzit/Alien.html", the <BR>
Florian League was mentioned in an old issue of an old issue of<BR>
"Travellers' Digest"), but I have doubts about the rest.  The<BR>
largest pocket empire in the Beyond, for instance, is labelled <BR>
the "Corellian League" (with a handful of colonies further to <BR>
rimward), and I have to admit regarding it with some skepticism<BR>
because of its connection (which, I admit, might be purely a <BR>
matter of nomenclature) to the "Star Wars" universe.  <BR>
<BR>
I have copies of the booklets which Paranoia Press published<BR>
regarding these two sectors, but I just can't take them seriously.<BR>
According, for instance, to Paranoia Press, all of the star systems<BR>
in subsector "K" of the Beyond (the "I'Sred*Ni Heptad") are laid<BR>
out in a *highly* implausible hexagonal pattern.<BR>
<BR>
So just what *is* the status of the Beyond and the Vanguard Reaches,<BR>
as far as the canonical universe goes?<BR>
                                                        - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 14:54:40 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: I want to ride my bicycle.<BR>
<BR>
> Sounds like something one may find in a ship's locker.<BR>
...<BR>
> Should BICYCLE be included as a learnable skill?<BR>
<BR>
If I recall, in MT it is.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3061<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3062</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 18 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3062<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: I want to ride my bicycle.<BR>
[BITS] ACQ Query<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3061<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3061<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
Re: Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
RE: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
Filk: request for lyrics<BR>
RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Re: Titan Games Preview for (9/17/00)<BR>
Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:40:21 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: I want to ride my bicycle.<BR>
<BR>
> > Should BICYCLE be included as a learnable skill?<BR>
> If I recall, in MT it is.<BR>
And TNE.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:55:01 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: [BITS] ACQ Query<BR>
<BR>
Hi all,<BR>
<BR>
We've had some discussions at GenCon UK about extensions to ACQ (we <BR>
demo'd it extensively) and one of the grey areas we thought of was <BR>
underwater combat. Do any of you here on TML have any comments / <BR>
thoughts on anything else you'd like to see for the game (either as <BR>
support material or on the website).<BR>
<BR>
I'd also like to remind people that we are happy to host any <BR>
scenarios you have for ACQ on the BITS website.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Please email me off list with any comments!<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
<BR>
Dom (BITS Webmaster)<BR>
- -------------Dom Mooney---webmaster@bits.org.uk----------------<BR>
                  BITS - British Isles Traveller Support.<BR>
  http://www.bits.org.uk/              mailto:bits@bits.org.uk<BR>
Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
GURPS is a registered trademark of Steve Jackson Games, Inc.<BR>
BITS, CORE and their respective logos are trademarks of BITS UK Limited.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:18 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <00917.121704.2U8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com><BR>
>Now you know one of the reasons *why* the summer camp I learned to<BR>
>shoot at only allowed us to fire the rifles from the *prone* position. <BR>
<BR>
I recall going on a course on how to teach recruits.  The range officer, a <BR>
smallish Scots Guards sergeant, asked why we should start by teaching the <BR>
recruits to shoot from a prone position... and then said "So you can kick <BR>
them in the head when they make a mistake".<BR>
<BR>
He made a mistake. He was standing beside me at the time. So I just put my <BR>
foot on his shoulder and raised an eyebrow... *tee* *hee*<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:18 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <v04210107b5eadf4a3796@[195.102.200.249]><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
The WotC interpretation of STAR WARS is, as you'd imagine, written using <BR>
the d20 system. It is far too overpowered. Pity. All the potential of a <BR>
good game in an interesting setting, and somewhat gone to waste.<BR>
<BR>
The d20 mechanic, of itself, is really nice. It's what has been built upon <BR>
it that is not so good. D&D 3rd Edn. is a bit that way, too much power too <BR>
quickly; but the STAR WARS interpretation is basically over the top.<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:08:23 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> From: SD Mooney <BR>
> Hint - Fosters is lager, not bitter. Or at least it is in the UK.<BR>
<BR>
Oops!  <BR>
<BR>
Well, it's cat urine, anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:39:02 -0400<BR>
From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3061<BR>
<BR>
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>
Hash: SHA1<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:55:28<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
><BR>
>At 12:23 PM 9/17/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> >And, because GDW went belly up, we'll never know what was behind the<BR>
> >Empress Wave -- or the Black Curtain, for that matter.  So many<BR>
> >mysteries left unsolved, and so few clues ...<BR>
><BR>
>The Empress Wave<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
I apologize to the list, and this is a heck of a reason to delurk, but <BR>
while I'm familiar with CT and MT, New Era stuff kinda never came my way.<BR>
<BR>
I know sort of what Virus was all about, but could anyone point me in the <BR>
right direction about what this 'Zhodani Exodus,' 'Empress Wave,' and <BR>
'Black Curtain' might be?  Thanks in advance!<BR>
<BR>
Cheers<BR>
- - ---<BR>
==============================================================<BR>
Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE       NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com<BR>
System Administrator         http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com<BR>
- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
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- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
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- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:33:04 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Kristian Miller wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Just remember that if you leave a wide shallow container of liquid<BR>
> > > nitrogen exposed to the air it'll condense oxygen (which has a higher<BR>
> > > boiling point) out of the air. Thus, afdter a while the liquid has a<BR>
> > > bluish tinge because it's now LOX!<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > *Very* dangerous situation.<BR>
> <BR>
> Great for cleaning floors though!<BR>
<BR>
*And* as a dessert topping! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:31:05 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> > > We all wear Bowlers and pin-stripe suits, carry copies of the Times and<BR>
> > long<BR>
> > > black umbrellas, and catch the Clapham Omnibus, the 7:35 to Paddington,<BR>
> > the<BR>
> > > Tube, Hackney Carriages, or are chauffer driven in Rollers or Jags,<BR>
> > don'cha<BR>
> > > know!<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Matt<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You don't. You're a northerner. (The only northerner to do any of the<BR>
> above<BR>
> > is John Prescott, as all the world knows.)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You drink bitter, eat pies with gravy and watch Rugby League.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Nick the southerner<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, I was born in Kent, drink lager, and prefer Union to League, but<BR>
> the pies and gravy is spot on <g><BR>
><BR>
> Matt<BR>
> (Southern by birth, but lived in Yorkshire since I was 7)<BR>
<BR>
Yeah well I'm a Londoner, drink Red Stripe or Tequilla, ride on a routemaster,<BR>
go to Carnival and watch women's volleyball.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:48:29 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3061<BR>
<BR>
> I know sort of what Virus was all about, but could anyone point me in the<BR>
> right direction about what this 'Zhodani Exodus,' 'Empress Wave,' and<BR>
> 'Black Curtain' might be?  Thanks in advance!<BR>
<BR>
In a nutshell:<BR>
<BR>
A) The Black Curtain: there's an area around the Core sector which no ships<BR>
come out of. They go in, and they're never seen again. Nobody knows what's<BR>
in those systems. Theories have run from huge Puppetteer empires to...well,<BR>
huge Pupetteer Empires worshipping Lucan's frozen remains.<BR>
<BR>
B) The Zhodani Exodus: About mid-Rebellion, reports start to come in<BR>
through TAS indicating fighting within the (normally dead stable) Zhodani<BR>
Consulate. Then over the next fifty years refugees start to appear on the<BR>
border of the Regency (the ex-Spinward Marches, which survived Collapse).<BR>
The refugee flow begins to mount. I actually ran a PBeM based around the<BR>
premise of finding out what happened, but we didn't get very far.<BR>
<BR>
C) The Empress Wave: probable cause of B). A psychic phenomenon causing a<BR>
vision even in non-psionic people, of a woman holding a staff, standing in<BR>
front of a city. The picture carries with it a great feeling of waiting for<BR>
something, although not a lot else is known about it. Strephon was supposed<BR>
to be at a Longbow station receiving a report on the Empress Wave when his<BR>
double was assassinated. We have no idea what caused it, or what it could<BR>
have done to the Zhodani Consulate.<BR>
<BR>
(Well, I had some ideas, but they were PBeM plot...)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:11:46 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
John Groth wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > > > Just remember that if you leave a wide shallow container of liquid<BR>
> > > > nitrogen exposed to the air it'll condense oxygen (which has a higher<BR>
...<BR>
> > > > *Very* dangerous situation.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Great for cleaning floors though!<BR>
> <BR>
> *And* as a dessert topping! ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Oooh!  That sounds good.  <BR>
<BR>
I was serious about cleaning the floor though.  The liquid nitrogen<BR>
literally boils the dirt out of the cracks when you splash a flask of<BR>
the LN on the floor.  Anyone caught in the splash feels a cool draft on<BR>
their feet as the wave of liquid/gas/grime washes over their shoes.  I<BR>
wouldn't try it around bare foot people though.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:52:09 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
<BR>
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> ><BR>
> > Below is a table describing various nuclear power plants that might be<BR>
> > used in GURPS Traveller Modular Starship Design at various GTL, based<BR>
> > of figures from the table on VE86 for plants over 5 kilowatts.<BR>
> <BR>
> What are RTG and NPU reactors?<BR>
<BR>
Only heretics and apostates worry about such things. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:06:00 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
"Kelly St.Clair" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> A quick meta-game note here:<BR>
> <BR>
> I would say that the whole point of these "storing more H in less volume"<BR>
> tricks is to take advantage of the fact that many editions of Traveller<BR>
> completely IGNORE mass, dealing only in volume.  It's a means of exploiting<BR>
> an incomplete rules system.<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, AuricTech's interest in the idea of storing H2 in the form of H2O<BR>
(for subsequent jumps) is based on the facts that:<BR>
<BR>
1.  AuricTech designs (using FF&S2) calculate acceleration based on<BR>
mass;<BR>
<BR>
2.  Cargo space on AuricTech designs assumes a mass/volume ratio of 1<BR>
metric ton/m^3 (the ratio as water).<BR>
<BR>
3.  Most AuricTech designs include fuel refining installations.<BR>
<BR>
Given these three premises, the use of H2O stored in the cargo bay to<BR>
increase the ferry range becomes a useful idea under limited<BR>
circumstances (such as extending the transport/ferry range of many<BR>
merchant ships, at the cost of cargo space).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:14:06 -0500<BR>
From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
At 04:30 PM 09/17/2000, J. Raynor wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I've been thinking about running a campaign in the Beyond and/or <BR>
>the Vanguard Reaches, and was wondering where (if anywhere) to go <BR>
>for canonical information regarding these places.  I took a look<BR>
>at "www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol/traveller/space/index.html",<BR>
>and saw that the Beyond had already been mapped out, and divided<BR>
>between nearly a dozen pocket-sized empires.  A couple of these<BR>
>looked canonical (the Aslan region in sector's rimward/trailing <BR>
>corner also shows up on the map on the inside of the back cover<BR>
>of the old Classic Traveller alien module regarding the Aslan,<BR>
>and according to "home.flash.net/~grazzit/Alien.html", the <BR>
>Florian League was mentioned in an old issue of an old issue of<BR>
>"Travellers' Digest"), but I have doubts about the rest.  The<BR>
>largest pocket empire in the Beyond, for instance, is labelled <BR>
>the "Corellian League" (with a handful of colonies further to <BR>
>rimward), and I have to admit regarding it with some skepticism<BR>
>because of its connection (which, I admit, might be purely a <BR>
>matter of nomenclature) to the "Star Wars" universe.  <BR>
<BR>
IIRC there are several web pages that have The Beyond and Vanguard Reaches data in them(Canon and Non Canon). Marc and GDW ruled the book version of both sectors "non-canon", I believe. <BR>
<BR>
Some of my players have played in both sectors but they got there due a miss jump after being pursued by a very hostile Aslan battle fleet with a personal grudge or three. Ahh the life of a mercenary unit during the Aslan Incursion War can be so "interesting".<G><BR>
<BR>
IIRC the Florian League were in some fanzines but I can recall the name. I have it but it sin storage right now.<BR>
<BR>
I believe the sector books were published prior to the Star Wars references. <BR>
<BR>
>I have copies of the booklets which Paranoia Press published<BR>
>regarding these two sectors, but I just can't take them seriously.<BR>
>According, for instance, to Paranoia Press, all of the star systems<BR>
>in subsector "K" of the Beyond (the "I'Sred*Ni Heptad") are laid<BR>
>out in a *highly* implausible hexagonal pattern.<BR>
<BR>
Well I had no problems with subsector K or the Heptad, it kept my players away from it, but the Dark Goddesses were a different matter.<BR>
<BR>
>So just what *is* the status of the Beyond and the Vanguard Reaches,<BR>
>as far as the canonical universe goes?                                                       <BR>
<BR>
Currently nothing is "Canon" but others may differ.<GG><BR>
<BR>
I am currently working on the Astron, Theta Boriallis(sp), and the Fulani but I have used the alternative system for sector generation from the "Galactic" program, fewer 0 pop high tech worlds that way.<g> I used the dot map locations and generated the data.<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:28:08 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
<BR>
Well - I guess you need to count me a Heretic!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
I even dislike HighGuard!!<BR>
<BR>
MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
errr. <BR>
<BR>
Muquackquackquackquackquackquackquackquackquackquackquackquackqaaaaaaaaa<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Better!<BR>
<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of John Groth<BR>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 5:52 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> ><BR>
> > Below is a table describing various nuclear power plants that might be<BR>
> > used in GURPS Traveller Modular Starship Design at various GTL, based<BR>
> > of figures from the table on VE86 for plants over 5 kilowatts.<BR>
> <BR>
> What are RTG and NPU reactors?<BR>
<BR>
Only heretics and apostates worry about such things. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:02:08 +0400<BR>
From: "Andrew Long" <dyrnwynn@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Filk: request for lyrics<BR>
<BR>
I've been impressed by the quality of the Filk going on around here<BR>
recently, so much so that I've been tempted to try my hand at Filking. First<BR>
time for everything, I'm told. I know what I want to attempt, but my problem<BR>
(well, ONE of my problems, let's not get into THAT) is that I've bene living<BR>
out of a suitcase for the past year, and all my music is in storage.<BR>
<BR>
What I need is the lyrics to some of Bertie Higgins stuff - 'The Tropics'<BR>
and 'Just another day in paradise' (from the album 'Just another etc.')<BR>
Anyone on the list in possession of these songs? (Eris - he's just about a<BR>
local boy - can yu help?)<BR>
<BR>
Please don't expect instant music. This will be my first venture into Filk<BR>
<BR>
in hope<BR>
<BR>
Andy Long<BR>
=======================================================================<BR>
dyrwynn@hotmail.com<BR>
c/o EPMTS<BR>
PO Bx 46426<BR>
Abu Dhabi<BR>
United Arab Emirates<BR>
=======================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:33:20 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Warrants & Kinunir<BR>
<BR>
>The class and the ship name are getting confused.<BR>
><BR>
>The warrant for Norris was carried by 9519 Markashi (not by 9514 Kinunir).<BR>
>The loss of the Kinunir was separate. At the time "Kinunir" was written,<BR>
>Markashi had not been lost.<BR>
><BR>
>Marc<BR>
<BR>
Does this mean that GT:BTC (p 85) is incorrect when it says that the Kinunir<BR>
was bringing Norris his Imperial Warrant when it was lost in the belt? Loren<BR>
we need call here. Is the warrant's resolution different in GT than CT?<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:50:22 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
"John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu> asks:<BR>
<BR>
>So just what *is* the status of the Beyond and the Vanguard Reaches,<BR>
>as far as the canonical universe goes?<BR>
<BR>
 An interesting question, that. As the only appearance of the "new" Beyond is <BR>
in a DGP product (and therefore covered by the Sanger Sanction), and the old <BR>
Beyond is, as noted, a bit of a stretch, there really isn't a clearly useable <BR>
version of either sector in Canon.<BR>
 Because of the specifics of copyright law and the nature of the Sanger <BR>
Sanction, we can (I think) safely use the stellar positions and polity names <BR>
from DGP's Solomani & Aslan. The Vanguard polity borders look a lot like the <BR>
revised info I saw some years ago. Chuck Kallenbach redid the sector after <BR>
Paranoia Press folded; a fact I found out when I helped finish neighboring <BR>
Far Frontiers for The Traveller Chronicle. He had bits of it posted on a <BR>
website for a while, but that site is long gone.<BR>
 The Beyond stuff (the new stellar map and polities) was done specifically <BR>
for Solomani Aslan, IIRC, and the author dropped out of site soon after, so <BR>
there is NO other information in print on the Beyond in its current form. <BR>
Have fun, though if you don't feel like squinting at the dotmap, check out <BR>
mine at http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html and follow the "Zhodani" <BR>
link. There may be a full version out on the web somewhere, but the chances <BR>
of it being anything but homegrown (not a bad thing) are miniscule.<BR>
<BR>
That help any?<BR>
<BR>
Jim Kundert<BR>
Gypsycomet@aol.com<BR>
Retired Zhodani Sector Analyst<BR>
Part-time Sector Designer, Full-time Dreamer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:05:46 -0500<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
At 11:36 AM 9/16/00, you wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Water tends to rain out though. Also, the clouds tend to *cool* the<BR>
>planet by increasing the albedo.<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
But the clouds also hold in surface heat. There is some argument about <BR>
which effect is stronger.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:13:07 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Richard Wilson [mailto:rtwilson@rollanet.org]<BR>
> Sent: Monday, 18 September 2000 13:06<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> At 11:36 AM 9/16/00, you wrote:<BR>
> >In mail you write:<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >Water tends to rain out though. Also, the clouds tend to *cool* the<BR>
> >planet by increasing the albedo.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >--<BR>
> >Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
> >  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> >leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
> <BR>
> But the clouds also hold in surface heat. There is some <BR>
> argument about <BR>
> which effect is stronger.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
To add to the arguement, more clouds change the Surface albedo,<BR>
reflecting back more energy..<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
And just to change carry on with this greenhouse topic, I thinks that<BR>
its interesting that a global temp increase could change the flow of the<BR>
gulf stream, and plunge Europe into an ice age. Hard Times for the UK<BR>
indeed!<BR>
<BR>
Of course, we must remeber that this is all speculation... no one knows<BR>
anything for sure!<BR>
<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:43:15 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>Glad to help.  Loren, if anybody takes this seriously, I will smack them<BR>
>upside the head with a large trout.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    <LL hands Pengiun Boy a large stoat.><BR>
    Use a stoat instead, it hurts more.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:58:19 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Sep 00, at 12:44, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> on 9/16/00 9:27 PM, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance at a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz<BR>
> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > I'm slowly working on porting HGS to other OS, but I don't have access to a<BR>
> > Pascal compilier for Mac. Can anyone recommend a good one?<BR>
<BR>
> Just rewrite for RealBasic, then you can crosscompile for both mac and win. --<BR>
<BR>
I know Delphi, C++ and Jade; learning another language and rewriting the <BR>
thing just to port aseems a little excessive :*><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:12:50 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Titan Games Preview for (9/17/00)<BR>
<BR>
 Asides from the humour items, some of these might be of interest to the<BR>
faithful.<BR>
<BR>
>Game Designer's Workshop:<BR>
...<BR>
>    (Traveller)<BR>
>        The Traveller Book (softbound) (201) [$27, F]<BR>
...<BR>
>    (Traveller: The New Era)<BR>
>        Aliens of the Rim, Hivers and Ithklur (318) [$17, NM]<BR>
...<BR>
>            Deities & Demigods (with Cthulhu) (2013) [$135, G]<BR>
>            Deities & Demigods (with Cthulhu) (2013) (name inside<BR>
cover)[$150, VF]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: There is no Game but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is its<BR>
Product<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:14:14 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
on 9/17/00 9:58 PM, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance at a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On 17 Sep 00, at 12:44, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>> on 9/16/00 9:27 PM, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance at a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz<BR>
>> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>>> I'm slowly working on porting HGS to other OS, but I don't have access to a<BR>
>>> Pascal compilier for Mac. Can anyone recommend a good one?<BR>
> <BR>
>> Just rewrite for RealBasic, then you can crosscompile for both mac and win.<BR>
>> --<BR>
> <BR>
> I know Delphi, C++ and Jade; learning another language and rewriting the<BR>
> thing just to port aseems a little excessive :*><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Well, metrowerks supports C++, is available for mac and pc, and IIRC<BR>
supports crosscompile.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:36:21 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/17/00 4:58:26 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< One of the nicest compliments I've gotten in years came last year at Mark<BR>
 Cook's house.  He was showing us his weapons, and handed me his M-16.  I<BR>
 instinctively checked the chamber, and he remarked that it was nice to deal<BR>
 with people who knew what they were doing.<BR>
 <BR>
 When I teach people about weapons, I tell them that every weapon is loaded<BR>
 until you see the empty chamber yourself.  And the moment you can't see the<BR>
 chamber, it's loaded again. >><BR>
<BR>
I get tired of the nitwits at the sporting goods and department stores who <BR>
are clueless as to safely handling firearms. I can't tell you how many times <BR>
I'm handed a weapon with a closed action and/or the magazine still in place. <BR>
The best was the time I was at Walmart and I had to take a shotgun away from <BR>
another customer, and teach him the fine art of operating a pump action <BR>
shotgun (he didn't know how to work the action and the muzzle was starting to <BR>
drift in BAD directions). The knucklehead clerk was processing a fishing <BR>
licence and wasn't watching her customer; she just handed it to him to check <BR>
out! Needless to say, I just left and went to a gun store the next day; the <BR>
great price on .38 special ammo wasn't worth the headaches...<BR>
<BR>
Sorry for the rant...:-(<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3062<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3063</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/18/00 9:15:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 18 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3063<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
A Techie question regarding High Guard<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
RE: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
Re: Imperium Games has gone away<BR>
RE: Bloody Heritic!<BR>
RE: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
RE: Penguins<BR>
RE: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
RE: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
RE: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
Re: Imperium Games has gone away<BR>
RE: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
RE: Penguins<BR>
RE: HIWG CD<BR>
Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Annic Nova<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Competition<BR>
RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:38:15 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: A Techie question regarding High Guard<BR>
<BR>
I'm working on the 1.03 version of my HGS program (trying to cram in all <BR>
the neat features that people have suggested both in the Beta test and <BR>
since release). The next feature is going to be an option for charging for <BR>
turrets and hardpoints (like book 2). Now I can take the costs for laser, <BR>
missile and sandcaster turrets and hardpoints from book two; but what do <BR>
people think should be the cost for energy weapon and PA turrets? <BR>
Currently I'm leaning towards Cr500,000 for a single Energy turret, <BR>
Cr1,000,000 for a dual energy turret, Cr1,500,000 for a PA barbette and <BR>
Cr1,000,000 for a PA turret.<BR>
<BR>
Comments, suggestions, rotten vegetables?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:42:46 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/17/00 8:06:22 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Now you know one of the reasons *why* the summer camp I learned to<BR>
 shoot at only allowed us to fire the rifles from the *prone* position.  >><BR>
<BR>
ditto, and we had to use single shot bolt actions...:-). I'm sure though that <BR>
this camp no longer has that program; certain parents who drive Rolls Royces <BR>
complained...:-(. (I'm just jealous because I had to shovel horse s**t all <BR>
summer every summer to pay my room and board...:-) ).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:44:07 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/17/00 8:59:25 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Glad to help.  Loren, if anybody takes this seriously, I will smack them<BR>
 upside the head with a large trout.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
ONE KEYBOARD KILL!!!!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:11:21 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
> To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 8:35 AM<BR>
> Subject: RE: What is "canon" anyways?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > The first of the FFE Classic Traveller Reprints has a list <BR>
> of canonical<BR>
> > sources in the front, if you wanna check 'em out.<BR>
> <BR>
> Strictly speaking, that list is just the Classic Traveller canon...<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Agreed. Sadly, Classic Trav. Canon is all I'm qualified to speak about (and<BR>
not even all of it, yet :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:21:46 GMT<BR>
From: "Andrew Hewson" <loup_wolf@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
<BR>
Dom,<BR>
<BR>
(& I know this post is getting OT)<BR>
<BR>
D&D games were not always the first called out at UKGC - in fact the <BR>
'smaller' system were often the ones delt with first when getting the <BR>
players together and getting them to tables with GM's.<BR>
<BR>
Andy.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----Original Message Follows----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:55:57 +0100<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
Interesting. At GenCon UK there is (and was) the usual basis of<BR>
calling the D&D games first and making everyone else wait.<BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 03:16:36 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Imperium Games has gone away<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 09:42:10<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>At 02:31 PM 9/17/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>
>>Finally, the Imperium Games website has gone away for good. I think it<BR>
>>is finally time to remove it from all the link pages out there.<BR>
>><BR>
>>I wonder what kept the website up for so long after the company shut<BR>
>>down?<BR>
><BR>
>What was frightening was that somebody was maintaining it, off and on.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand the only reason I found Traveller on the web was<BR>
because the defunct IG games thankfully not defunct website. Perhaps<BR>
somebody should look into picking up the domain name and link it to<BR>
Marc's site or something?<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 08:40:49 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Bloody Heritic!<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Mark Urbin [mailto:urbin@bigfoot.com]<BR>
> Sent: 16 September 2000 04:20<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Bloody Heritic!<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >Not _that_ native - I said 'of the area', not 'of the community'.<BR>
> >Poughkeepsie is part of the New York Metropolitan Area; I'm <BR>
> a native of the<BR>
> >City proper, with deep roots in southern Westchester.<BR>
> <BR>
> A two hour Metro-Rail ride makes you part of the NYC Metro Area?<BR>
> Bah!  You probably don't even know the good bars in New Paltz!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
New Paltz has good bars? I thought my college buddy was just kidding! ;)<BR>
Seriously, Mark...anywhere we should go especially? (jump-cut to Dean<BR>
walking into an unmarked blue door. Cue 'Blue Oyster bar' music and<BR>
screaming)  <BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:03:31 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Nick Bradbeer [mailto:nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk]<BR>
> Sent: 17 September 2000 06:03<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > We all wear Bowlers and pin-stripe suits, carry copies of <BR>
> the Times and<BR>
> long<BR>
> > black umbrellas, and catch the Clapham Omnibus, the 7:35 to <BR>
> Paddington,<BR>
> the<BR>
> > Tube, Hackney Carriages, or are chauffer driven in Rollers or Jags,<BR>
> don'cha<BR>
> > know!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Matt<BR>
> <BR>
> You don't. You're a northerner. (The only northerner to do <BR>
> any of the above<BR>
> is John Prescott, as all the world knows.)<BR>
> <BR>
> You drink bitter, eat pies with gravy and watch Rugby League.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
What about the flat caps, whippets and pigeons? Surelysome mention of coal<BR>
mining and 'There's trouble at mill' will be in order also. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:06:59 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Making Liquid Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
> > >Water tends to rain out though. Also, the clouds tend to *cool* the<BR>
> > >planet by increasing the albedo.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >--<BR>
> > >Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
> > >  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> > >leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
> > <BR>
> > But the clouds also hold in surface heat. There is some <BR>
> > argument about <BR>
> > which effect is stronger.<BR>
> > <BR>
> <BR>
> To add to the arguement, more clouds change the Surface albedo,<BR>
> reflecting back more energy..<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> And just to change carry on with this greenhouse topic, I thinks that<BR>
> its interesting that a global temp increase could change the <BR>
> flow of the<BR>
> gulf stream, and plunge Europe into an ice age. Hard Times for the UK<BR>
> indeed!<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Ya mean we're not in an ice age at the moment? Dammitall!<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:22:11 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> In-Reply-To: <00917.121704.2U8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com><BR>
> >Now you know one of the reasons *why* the summer camp I learned to<BR>
> >shoot at only allowed us to fire the rifles from the *prone* <BR>
> position. <BR>
> <BR>
> I recall going on a course on how to teach recruits.  The <BR>
> range officer, a <BR>
> smallish Scots Guards sergeant, asked why we should start by <BR>
> teaching the <BR>
> recruits to shoot from a prone position... and then said "So <BR>
> you can kick <BR>
> them in the head when they make a mistake".<BR>
> <BR>
> He made a mistake. He was standing beside me at the time. So <BR>
> I just put my <BR>
> foot on his shoulder and raised an eyebrow... *tee* *hee*<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
He was *standing* next to you and you put your foot on his shoulder? Just<BR>
how small was the guy? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:26:22 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> At 12:23 PM 9/17/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> >And, because GDW went belly up, we'll never know what was behind the<BR>
> >Empress Wave -- or the Black Curtain, for that matter.  So many<BR>
> >mysteries left unsolved, and so few clues ...<BR>
> <BR>
> The Empress Wave was started by the Queen Mum celebrating her<BR>
> umpteen-thousandsth birthday in the Core.  The universe <BR>
> couldn't take one<BR>
> more open-handed wave from this little old royal, and the shockwave is<BR>
> devastating the galaxy.<BR>
> <BR>
> The Black Curtain was caused by the AI version of Roger <BR>
> S**nger seizing the<BR>
> copyrights to most of the worlds, people, and stellar phenomena in the<BR>
> region.  Unless he's paid a mountain of money, we'll never be <BR>
> able to use<BR>
> those worlds again.  <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
So how much would it take to buy off the little...erm...copyright holder? <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:30:16 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> And, because GDW went belly up, we'll never know what was behind the<BR>
> Empress Wave -- or the Black Curtain, for that matter.  So many<BR>
> mysteries left unsolved, and so few clues ...<BR>
<BR>
Awww, you mean 'Adventure seeds', right ? Besides, we know a man who was<BR>
working at GDW...maybe Loren'll drop a few hints. If not, we just gotta play<BR>
G:T for another 80 years and wait for 1201 to roll around :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:27:32 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
> Sent: Monday, 18 September 2000 1:44 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Zhodani Exodus?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 9/17/00 8:59:25 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>
> gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << Glad to help.  Loren, if anybody takes this seriously, I will <BR>
> smack them<BR>
>  upside the head with a large trout.<BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
> ONE KEYBOARD KILL!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Why not get them to cut down the largest tree in the forest with a herring!<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:39:35 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Imperium Games has gone away<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Sep 00, at 14:31, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Finally, the Imperium Games website has gone away for good. I think it<BR>
> is finally time to remove it from all the link pages out there.<BR>
<BR>
It may be dead, but the body's still warm :*> All the pages are still there, <BR>
just the main page is blocked<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:16:27 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance<BR>
> > Just rewrite for RealBasic, then you can crosscompile for both<BR>
> mac and win. --<BR>
><BR>
> I know Delphi, C++ and Jade; learning another language and rewriting the<BR>
> thing just to port aseems a little excessive :*><BR>
<BR>
Wow, someone knows Jade.<BR>
Of course coming from Christchurch, it's more likely that you would than<BR>
someone from elsewhere. (Jade is something else I teach, BTW, our company<BR>
are the official training partners for Jade Corp)<BR>
<BR>
BTW, your reason above is why I always write in Java these days, if I've got<BR>
the choice.<BR>
No need to learn a new language, no need to port.<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:23:45 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
Jones, Dean wrote :<BR>
> > In-Reply-To: <00917.121704.2U8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com><BR>
> > He made a mistake. He was standing beside me at the time. So<BR>
> > I just put my  foot on his shoulder and raised an eyebrow... *tee* *hee*<BR>
><BR>
> He was *standing* next to you and you put your foot on his shoulder? Just<BR>
> how small was the guy? :)<BR>
<BR>
He wouldn't have to be very small, I know when I was supple and actually<BR>
practicing my Tae Kwon Do I could put my foot on anyone's shoulder who was<BR>
not significantly taller than I was.<BR>
<BR>
(That was a long time ago, though)<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:08:07 +0100<BR>
From: Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com<BR>
Subject: RE: HIWG CD<BR>
<BR>
Bryan wrote:<BR>
> Also the CD has about reached the 650 meg limit and I need to<BR>
> start considering options on what to do next.<BR>
> <BR>
> I can start zipping most of the material up,<snip><BR>
<BR>
That would be a pain.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Next option would be breaking it up over two CD's.<snip><BR>
<BR>
That would work.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Third option. Go with DVD. Not likely yet, cost is to <BR>
> high and I don't think enough people have DVD drives yet.<BR>
<BR>
A DVD writer  would  be  expensive,  but  for  the  rest  of  us:<BR>
replacing a CD-ROM drive with a DVD-ROM drive is relatively cheap<BR>
and easy now (atleast on a PC, haven't tried on  a  Mac).  So  if<BR>
you want to go DVD then no problem.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Any thoughts on a fourth option?<BR>
<BR>
A variant of multiple CDs would be: double-sided  CDs.  It  would<BR>
simplify packaging and handling, and no risk of anyone getting  2<BR>
of the same disk instead of a matching pair.  (Of course, you are<BR>
just putting off the inevitable: what do you  do  when  you  have<BR>
1300 meg?)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 07:16:29 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 17 Sep 2000, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm slowly working on porting HGS to other OS, but I don't have access to <BR>
> a Pascal compilier for Mac. Can anyone recommend a good one?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
There used to be a Pascal compiler (and framework) among the MPW stuff at<BR>
Apple's web site. Get into the Developer section and start poking about<BR>
the downloads. It's fairly buried, but it's there, and free (or at least<BR>
the cost of some large downloads). You can get the C compiler as well, and<BR>
a host of development tools.<BR>
<BR>
Code Warrior also (iirc) comes with a Pascal compiler, but that's pricier.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:15:04 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Annic Nova<BR>
<BR>
Just to let anyone know who is interested, I have posted a FFS1<BR>
interpretation of the Annic Nova to my site, which can be found at<BR>
<BR>
www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR>
<BR>
Just follow the links through the Banners sector, the vessel is listed in<BR>
the Alston navies order of battle (it is a training ship)<BR>
<BR>
Compared to the original battery endurance is way down, 192 hours at full<BR>
power drain, which admittedly would not happen all that often.<BR>
<BR>
The vessels solar array means that further out then the habitable zone many<BR>
systems, such as Artificial Gravity would have to be turned off in order to<BR>
charge batteries at a rate faster than drain.<BR>
<BR>
Comments on this version are welcome.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:38:25 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
At 05:30 PM 9/17/00 -0400, J. Raynor wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I have copies of the booklets which Paranoia Press published<BR>
>regarding these two sectors, but I just can't take them seriously.<BR>
>According, for instance, to Paranoia Press, all of the star systems<BR>
>in subsector "K" of the Beyond (the "I'Sred*Ni Heptad") are laid<BR>
>out in a *highly* implausible hexagonal pattern.<BR>
<BR>
Grandfather did it. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:21:35 -0400<BR>
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:48:29 -0700<BR>
>From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3061<BR>
><BR>
> > I know sort of what Virus was all about, but could anyone point me in the<BR>
> > right direction about what this 'Zhodani Exodus,' 'Empress Wave,' and<BR>
> > 'Black Curtain' might be?  Thanks in advance!<BR>
><BR>
>In a nutshell:<BR>
><BR>
>A) The Black Curtain: there's an area around the Core sector which no ships<BR>
>come out of. They go in, and they're never seen again. Nobody knows what's<BR>
>in those systems. Theories have run from huge Puppetteer empires to...well,<BR>
>huge Pupetteer Empires worshipping Lucan's frozen remains.<BR>
><BR>
>B) The Zhodani Exodus: About mid-Rebellion, reports start to come in<BR>
>through TAS indicating fighting within the (normally dead stable) Zhodani<BR>
>Consulate. Then over the next fifty years refugees start to appear on the<BR>
>border of the Regency (the ex-Spinward Marches, which survived Collapse).<BR>
>The refugee flow begins to mount. I actually ran a PBeM based around the<BR>
>premise of finding out what happened, but we didn't get very far.<BR>
><BR>
>C) The Empress Wave: probable cause of B). A psychic phenomenon causing a<BR>
>vision even in non-psionic people, of a woman holding a staff, standing in<BR>
>front of a city. The picture carries with it a great feeling of waiting for<BR>
>something, although not a lot else is known about it. Strephon was supposed<BR>
>to be at a Longbow station receiving a report on the Empress Wave when his<BR>
>double was assassinated. We have no idea what caused it, or what it could<BR>
>have done to the Zhodani Consulate.<BR>
><BR>
>(Well, I had some ideas, but they were PBeM plot...)<BR>
><BR>
>Nick<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Fascinating.  That's one thing I like about the various Traveller Milieu, <BR>
so many mysteries all over the universe.  I suppose I'll have to find a <BR>
copy of TNE to see what else there is.  Thank you very much for that <BR>
information!  I imagine some of that could even make for a fascinating <BR>
campaign even in campaigns set in or around the 5FW.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:31:46 +0100<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Competition<BR>
<BR>
Over on F&F (where more Traveller fiction is due to appear soon, once I get<BR>
it formatted) we're running a competition to win some of my novels, Behind<BR>
the Throne. Thought it might be fun to repeat the details here.<BR>
<BR>
A broad hint - lots of the answers are on the F&F site. The rest are general<BR>
gaming and fiction stuff.<BR>
<BR>
You can get the book on Amazon.com (5 stars) - look under Martin J Dougherty<BR>
<BR>
In a matter of days, you'll also be able to get my first ebook from 23 House<BR>
(not Warehouse 23!) at www.23house.com<BR>
<BR>
This is the Napoleonic adventure "A Brevet for the Guillotine"<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, here's the competition details, reprinted from teh FFN site.<BR>
Distribute them if you please.<BR>
<BR>
***********************<BR>
<BR>
Fiction-Fantasy Network Behind the Throne Competition<BR>
<BR>
In this, the first F&F network competition, we are offering three signed<BR>
copies of the new Fantasy novel Behind the Throne by our creative director,<BR>
Martin J Dougherty as prizes. Martin is setting the questions himself, so if<BR>
they are egocentric or downright bizarre, blame him.<BR>
<BR>
Competition rules:<BR>
Below are 20 questions but no answers. Provide some. The three entrants who<BR>
provide the greatest number of correct answers by the drawing date will win<BR>
a signed copy of the novel. In the event of a tie, the F&F staff will pick<BR>
three winners in a random, violent and painful fashion. The organisers'<BR>
decision may be rather strange, but it's final.<BR>
<BR>
Answers should be accompanied by the question, or at least in the right<BR>
order. Your address might be useful, too.<BR>
<BR>
Email your answers to Martin at martinjd@fiction-fantasy.net by Midnight,<BR>
30th September (GMT), with the subject header "BTT Entry". Winners will be<BR>
notified by email during the week of the 1st of October.<BR>
<BR>
Amazingly Obvious Hint: This is an F&F competition, run by the F&F Network<BR>
on the F&F site. Go figure.<BR>
<BR>
Members of the F&F staff may enter if they wish, but are automatically<BR>
disqualified because they're a rowdy shower led by an illiterate bozo. No<BR>
liability is accepted by the F&F Network for entries lost, stolen, misplaced<BR>
or eaten by a one-legged blind orc.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The Questions:<BR>
<BR>
1. What is the name of the Kingdom in which Behind the Throne is set?<BR>
<BR>
2. What part of the F&F Fortress does Martin inhabit?<BR>
<BR>
3. Chief among the cultists of the Death-god is Onslaught. Where can he be<BR>
encountered?<BR>
<BR>
4. What is the name of Ack-Nog's assistant?<BR>
<BR>
5. Give the titles of any two of Martin's print publications (not ones<BR>
involved in this competition!)<BR>
<BR>
6. Who is the author of the Fantasy novels The Time of the Dark and Dark<BR>
Hand of Magic?<BR>
<BR>
7. Which company publishes Behind the Throne?<BR>
<BR>
8. In the Hammers' Slammers novels by David Drake, what are the Slammers'<BR>
field police called?<BR>
<BR>
9. Martin has recently delivered the manuscript for a new novel. In what<BR>
game world is it set?<BR>
<BR>
10. Which famous gaming figure created this game world?<BR>
<BR>
11. In Dale Brown's Flight of the Old Dog, who or what was the Old Dog?<BR>
<BR>
12. In which classic SF adventure novel does Lucas Trask hunt his wife's<BR>
murderer in a ship named Nemesis?<BR>
<BR>
13. Which famous historical figure designed and built The Fabulous<BR>
Riverboat?<BR>
<BR>
14. In what RPG are you likely to encounter Twilight's Peak?<BR>
<BR>
15. In what game world are the Mostali and the Uz to be found?<BR>
<BR>
16. Magician (and its sequels) had its origin in RPG sessions with the<BR>
Friday Nighters. Who is the author?<BR>
<BR>
17. If The Computer told you to grab your laser and go hunting Commie Mutant<BR>
Traitors, where would you be?<BR>
<BR>
18. With what does Martin maintain discipline in the F&F Fortress?<BR>
<BR>
19. If you were in a crowded spaceship with Bob and Candy, who else would be<BR>
there?<BR>
<BR>
20. Tiring of the antics of Orcs, the F&F staff turned to a new source of<BR>
cheap labour. Who or what did they hire?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:13:03 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Jonathan McDermott [mailto:caraig@mindspring.com]<BR>
> Sent: 18 September 2000 16:22<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
> Fascinating.  That's one thing I like about the various <BR>
> Traveller Milieu, <BR>
> so many mysteries all over the universe.  I suppose I'll have <BR>
> to find a <BR>
> copy of TNE to see what else there is.  Thank you very much for that <BR>
> information!  I imagine some of that could even make for a <BR>
> fascinating <BR>
> campaign even in campaigns set in or around the 5FW.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, especially as the Empress wave is supposed to be a speed of light<BR>
phenomena, and is supposed to be hitting the Domain of Deneb in about<BR>
1200, it can only be about 2.5 subsectors into the Vargr Extents and<BR>
Zhodani Consulate. At the time of the fourth FW it was less than a<BR>
sector away from the Spinward Marches. Yet no Imperial Merchant had<BR>
heard a whiff of it...<BR>
<BR>
And of course the Zhodani, to counter this threat (Which drives<BR>
psionically aware nobles insane or kills them, and gives non-psionic<BR>
proles psionic abilities...) decide to antagonise their nearest powerful<BR>
neighbour with a couple of limited wars to prevent Imperial expansion<BR>
that is pretty inconsequential when the very fabric of the Consulate has<BR>
been ripped apart by the empress wave since 900 or so...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, that'll make it *3* frontier wars they fought with the<BR>
Imperium *since* the Empress wave hit the coreward edge of the<BR>
Consulate, and its a threat they have been aware of since the first Core<BR>
Expeditions, over 3000 years ago...<BR>
<BR>
Did it warrant a mention in the Zhodani Alien Module? Nope.<BR>
<BR>
To my mind the Empress Wave is just a thrown in 'Plot Device' that<BR>
completely screws with CT Canon, and is a souped up version of the<BR>
hinted at Primordials (a.k.a 'Baddies from the core') from DGP's MT<BR>
products, with knobs on!<BR>
<BR>
As you can tell, I very much dislike the concept...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3063<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3064</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/18/00 2:24:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 18 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3064<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
nuclear weapons in space<BR>
Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Re: Hydrogen<BR>
Re: Low tech battledress<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Newts<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Re: HIWG CD<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
hairy ticks and bars<BR>
World Map<BR>
RE: Penguins<BR>
Re: World Map<BR>
Flexible Penguins<BR>
Re: World Map<BR>
Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: World Map<BR>
RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:12:20 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
GypsyComet@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
>  The Beyond stuff (the new stellar map and polities) was done specifically <BR>
> for Solomani Aslan, IIRC, and the author dropped out of site soon after, so<BR>
>  there is NO other information in print on the Beyond in its current form.<BR>
>  Have fun, though if you don't feel like squinting at the dotmap, check out <BR>
> mine at http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/index.html and follow the<BR>
> "Zhodani"  link. There may be a full version out on the web somewhere, but<BR>
> the chances  of it being anything but homegrown (not a bad thing) are<BR>
> miniscule. <BR>
<BR>
Someone generated a datafile for Galactic which matches the dotmap above;<BR>
I don't recall the URL for the galactic file at the moment, but you can get<BR>
a pdf map of the sector at http://maps.grandsurvey.com/sec//fb.beyond.html<BR>
(follow links for a .pdf map and for a list of stars).<BR>
<BR>
My map at http://maps.grandsurvey.com/sec/fb.beyond.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:20:34 -0700<BR>
From: "fadetozero" <bempath@iserv.net><BR>
Subject: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
<BR>
it's really too bad i'm not able to post to the TML, as i have answers for<BR>
everything (or, i'm really opinionated.  i haven't decided, altho friends<BR>
suggest the latter interpretation...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:13:23 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
on 9/18/00 4:16 AM, Frank G. Pitt at frankie@mundens.gen.nz wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I know Delphi, C++ and Jade; learning another language and rewriting the<BR>
>> thing just to port aseems a little excessive :*><BR>
> <BR>
> Wow, someone knows Jade.<BR>
> Of course coming from Christchurch, it's more likely that you would than<BR>
> someone from elsewhere. (Jade is something else I teach, BTW, our company<BR>
> are the official training partners for Jade Corp)<BR>
> <BR>
> BTW, your reason above is why I always write in Java these days, if I've got<BR>
> the choice.<BR>
> No need to learn a new language, no need to port.<BR>
> <grin><BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, Java runs equally slowly on all platforms.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:16:52 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hydrogen<BR>
<BR>
Kelly St.Clair writes:<BR>
> A quick meta-game note here:<BR>
> <BR>
> I would say that the whole point of these "storing more H in less volume" <BR>
> tricks is to take advantage of the fact that many editions of Traveller <BR>
> completely IGNORE mass, dealing only in volume.  It's a means of exploiting<BR>
>  an incomplete rules system.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, no.  It's to take advantage of the fact that traveller jump drives<BR>
ignore mass.  For a jump ship, halving your acceleration to fit in 10% more<BR>
cargo may well be worthwhile (and in practice it's usually a lot less than<BR>
half acceleration).<BR>
<BR>
If you're paying attention to mass, most of these tricks are more useful to<BR>
merchants than to warships.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:21:42 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Low tech battledress<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry writes:<BR>
> I'm passing on a request for Tom Bont.<BR>
> <BR>
> Has anyone done a suit of battledress for GURPS Traveller at a lower TL<BR>
> than 11-12?<BR>
<BR>
There are a significant number of battledress designs at TL 8-10 which are<BR>
not specifically GT designs, but which do not differ in interesting ways from<BR>
GT designs.  Scan Onno Meyer's list of designs in http://gurpsnet.sjgames.com/Archive/Vehicles/Collections/ ; there are several<BR>
battledress designs, plus no shortage of other potentially useful designs.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:33:33 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry writes:<BR>
> > Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 04:45:17 +0200<BR>
> > From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
> > <BR>
> > Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> > > Incidentally, anyone know what would happen if you poured liquid<BR>
> > > hydrogen on charcoal, in the presence of a heat source?  I suspect you<BR>
> > > might get a lot of hot methane (and then a fireball as it burned in the<BR>
> > > atmosphere) but I really don't know.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > If you have oxygen present (as in 'air'), you'd get an explosion<BR>
> > instead. Remember chemistry classes? Mix oxygen and hydrogen, ignite...<BR>
> > BOOM.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, not unless you have the hydrogen nicely mixed with air -- it takes<BR>
about 3 cubic meters of air to combust one liter of LHyd.  It will probably<BR>
catch fire, burn, and produce a very nice fireball, but that's not the same<BR>
thing.<BR>
> <BR>
> Heck with chem class (though that is a nice little demo); remember the<BR>
> Hindenberg.  It should be noted, however, that H2/O2 explosions don't pack<BR>
> much of a punch; because the reaction product (2 H2O) takes up much less<BR>
> volume than the reagents (2 H2 + O2), very little shock wave is produced.<BR>
At the temperature of the result, they take up more volume.  As others have<BR>
noted, the hindenburg was not mostly a hydrogen fire.<BR>
<BR>
> It's more of a "Whoomf!" than a "Boom!". :)  Shockwave-producing<BR>
> explosions involve solid or liquid -- that is, very dense -- reagents<BR>
> converting to a gas-phase product, very very quickly.  Gunpowder plus<BR>
> oxidant is a good example.<BR>
<BR>
A mixture of gaseous reagents can produce a very fine shockwave, it just has<BR>
a relatively low peak overpressure because the energy density per unit volume<BR>
is very low, plus it won't explode at all if the ratio of reagents is wrong. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 09:47:26 -0700<BR>
From: Steve Charlton <Steve.Charlton@ifsna.com><BR>
Subject: Newts<BR>
<BR>
Loren said:<BR>
> I haven't specifically denied that I plan <BR>
> to have the Solomani cross-fertilize all Newts with guava trees either, <BR>
> y'know . . .<BR>
<BR>
Great.  Now I gotta rewrite the Newts article.  But I can use old Ent<BR>
miniatures for Newts now!<BR>
<BR>
Steve Charlton<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:11:31 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
At 1:37 -0400 18/9/00, "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> wrote:<BR>
> > From: SD Mooney<BR>
> > Hint - Fosters is lager, not bitter. Or at least it is in the UK.<BR>
>Oops!<BR>
><BR>
>Well, it's cat urine, anyway.<BR>
<BR>
Yup. Best served very cold and with a hot and strong curry so you <BR>
can't taste it.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:28:49 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
> Fascinating.  That's one thing I like about the various Traveller Milieu,<BR>
> so many mysteries all over the universe.  I suppose I'll have to find a<BR>
> copy of TNE to see what else there is.  Thank you very much for that<BR>
> information!  I imagine some of that could even make for a fascinating<BR>
> campaign even in campaigns set in or around the 5FW.<BR>
<BR>
Well, the Black Curtain won't be there that early. I should perhaps have<BR>
specified its size - on one map it covers most of Core Sector, on another<BR>
it covers most of Core, Fornast and Ley, plus bits of Lishun and Antares.<BR>
<BR>
(I suspect the Imperium would have noticed that. ;-)   )<BR>
<BR>
The Empress Wave is another matter. There's a bit of a conundrum, in that<BR>
it's been moving at lightspeed through the Zhodani Consulate, so presumably<BR>
its effects have been felt for a couple of hundred years now. Yet it's only<BR>
when the Imperium notice it (through LONGBOW) that the Zhodani start acting<BR>
funny.<BR>
<BR>
Sadly, it does have the feel of a bolted-on Plot Device(TM) which wasn't<BR>
properly thought through, and clashes with earlier canon. I've just deleted<BR>
the rest of my justification for this, because I've read Matt's post, which<BR>
explains it better.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:18:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: HIWG CD<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Third option. Go with DVD. Not likely yet, cost is to <BR>
>> high and I don't think enough people have DVD drives yet.<BR>
><BR>
> A DVD writer  would  be  expensive,  but  for  the  rest  of  us:<BR>
> replacing a CD-ROM drive with a DVD-ROM drive is relatively cheap<BR>
> and easy now (atleast on a PC, haven't tried on  a  Mac).  So  if<BR>
> you want to go DVD then no problem.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, *lots* of problems. There are at least *three* DIFFERENT<BR>
formats for writable DVDs. And they aren't compatible. Nor is *any* of<BR>
them supported by all drives.<BR>
<BR>
Unless you are dealing *solely* with "mass market" DVDs (the kind that<BR>
are "pressed" not "written"), forget DVD drives for now.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:26:19 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Craig Berry writes:<BR>
>> > Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 04:45:17 +0200<BR>
>> > From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
>> > <BR>
>> > Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
>> > > Incidentally, anyone know what would happen if you poured liquid<BR>
>> > > hydrogen on charcoal, in the presence of a heat source?  I suspect you<BR>
>> > > might get a lot of hot methane (and then a fireball as it burned in the<BR>
>> > > atmosphere) but I really don't know.<BR>
>> > <BR>
>> > If you have oxygen present (as in 'air'), you'd get an explosion<BR>
>> > instead. Remember chemistry classes? Mix oxygen and hydrogen, ignite...<BR>
>> > BOOM.<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, not unless you have the hydrogen nicely mixed with air -- it takes<BR>
> about 3 cubic meters of air to combust one liter of LHyd.  It will probably<BR>
> catch fire, burn, and produce a very nice fireball, but that's not the same<BR>
> thing.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, Hydrogen has a rather *wide* flammability range. You don't<BR>
need *complete* combustion to have it go "boom".<BR>
<BR>
> A mixture of gaseous reagents can produce a very fine shockwave, it just has<BR>
> a relatively low peak overpressure because the energy density per unit volume<BR>
> is very low, plus it won't explode at all if the ratio of reagents is wrong. <BR>
<BR>
Look up the range for hydrogen. It's something like 5% to 75%...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:22:31 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> > Actually, not unless you have the hydrogen nicely mixed with air -- it<BR>
> > takes about 3 cubic meters of air to combust one liter of LHyd.  It will<BR>
> > probably catch fire, burn, and produce a very nice fireball, but that's<BR>
> > not the same thing.<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, Hydrogen has a rather *wide* flammability range. You don't<BR>
> need *complete* combustion to have it go "boom".<BR>
<BR>
This is true.  However, the amount of oxygen available at any given time to<BR>
liquid hydrogen would be very limited, so you couldn't get much of an <BR>
initial explosion unless you let a lot of hydrogen vaporize first (the <BR>
initial burst would, of course, scatter hydrogen all over the place).  Of <BR>
course, if you exposed the hydrogen to air for a while you might get oxygen<BR>
'snow' in the hydrogen, which would probably be pretty unstable.<BR>
> <BR>
> > A mixture of gaseous reagents can produce a very fine shockwave, it just<BR>
> > has a relatively low peak overpressure because the energy density per<BR>
> > unit volume is very low, plus it won't explode at all if the ratio of<BR>
> > reagents is wrong.  <BR>
> <BR>
> Look up the range for hydrogen. It's something like 5% to 75%...<BR>
<BR>
I don't remember the exact range, but yes, it's a pretty wide range.  I don't<BR>
deny that hydrogen is quite likely to produce explosions in enclosed areas,<BR>
I just doubt that liquid hydrogen would explode particularly well unless you<BR>
mix it with an oxidizer or let it vaporize first (or reduce it to a fine <BR>
spray, or otherwise arrange for it to be mixed with enough oxygen to actually<BR>
produce a significant blast).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:37:50 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: hairy ticks and bars<BR>
<BR>
>New Paltz has good bars? I thought my college buddy was just kidding! ;)<BR>
>Seriously, Mark...anywhere we should go especially? (jump-cut to Dean<BR>
>walking into an unmarked blue door. Cue 'Blue Oyster bar' music and<BR>
>screaming)<BR>
<BR>
Well it did back in the ancient times, prior the horrific Chance fire in <BR>
Poughkeepsie.<BR>
P&G's (or as we fondly called it, "Pigs") is probably still open.  Last <BR>
time I was there, the punk club had turned into a fern bar and the tie-dye <BR>
shop on Main Street had closed...When NYS raised the drinking age from 18 <BR>
to 19 (and then 21 a year later), it really cut into the revenue flow for <BR>
the Main Street pubs.<BR>
<BR>
I have to admit I moved from New York State back when Mario Cumo was <BR>
Governor of New York City, and went to the high tech playground of Mike <BR>
Dukasis'  Massachusetts.  Some folks may find this hard to believe, my <BR>
taxes actually went down because of that move.  This was before both of <BR>
them bankrupted their respective states through excessive taxation and <BR>
spending like an Imperial Navy rating set loose in Startown after a long <BR>
deep space tour (ok, there is my long stretch for an obtrav).<BR>
<BR>
Oh ya, BOC did play in Poughkeepsie, at the Chance, before the fire, under <BR>
the 'small club name.'  I still have my ticket for Soft White Underbelly.<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
Exigis Domus Hillaria - http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 12:36:46 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: World Map<BR>
<BR>
I've ended up recreating the Traveller world map template (believe it<BR>
or not, for Space 1889 -- don't ask) in bitmap format.  If any of y'all<BR>
are interested, I'll be more than happy to send you a copy.<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:38 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <NDBBIJCCGLPKIPPMAFKAIENEFAAA.frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie has the right of it: I was attending training in Tae Kwon Do at <BR>
the time!<BR>
<BR>
He was a normal Guardsman 6-footer... and I'm 5'4" :-)<BR>
<BR>
The look on his face was something, though *tee* *hee*<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:45:12 -0500<BR>
From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: World Map<BR>
<BR>
There also<BR>
http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/Travmaps/<BR>
<BR>
If you prefer<BR>
.PCT,<BR>
.CDR,<BR>
.PDF,<BR>
.CPT,<BR>
.GIF,<BR>
.MAC,<BR>
.PCX,<BR>
.PNG, or<BR>
.PSD<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I've ended up recreating the Traveller world map template (believe it<BR>
> or not, for Space 1889 -- don't ask) in bitmap format.  If any of y'all<BR>
> are interested, I'll be more than happy to send you a copy.<BR>
><BR>
> =====<BR>
> Gerry Harris<BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
> ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
> Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
> "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
><BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
> http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:54:27 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> > I recall going on a course on how to teach recruits.  The<BR>
> > range officer, a<BR>
> > smallish Scots Guards sergeant, asked why we should start by<BR>
> > teaching the<BR>
> > recruits to shoot from a prone position... and then said "So<BR>
> > you can kick<BR>
> > them in the head when they make a mistake".<BR>
> ><BR>
> > He made a mistake. He was standing beside me at the time. So<BR>
> > I just put my<BR>
> > foot on his shoulder and raised an eyebrow... *tee* *hee*<BR>
>He was *standing* next to you and you put your foot on his shoulder? Just<BR>
>how small was the guy? :)<BR>
<BR>
The real question is how flexible is Mexal?<BR>
Proper chambering allows you deliver a "Billy Jack" (inside crescent kick) <BR>
up along side da head from elbow range.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
It was blasphemous, it was sacrilegious, and it was a little bit too much fun.<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 13:06:42 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: World Map<BR>
<BR>
Oh great.  Where were you last night when I could have really used you?<BR>
<BR>
- --- Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:<BR>
> There also<BR>
> http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/Travmaps/<BR>
> <BR>
> If you prefer<BR>
> .PCT,<BR>
> .CDR,<BR>
> .PDF,<BR>
> .CPT,<BR>
> .GIF,<BR>
> .MAC,<BR>
> .PCX,<BR>
> .PNG, or<BR>
> .PSD<BR>
> <BR>
> bloo<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I've ended up recreating the Traveller world map template (believe<BR>
> it<BR>
> > or not, for Space 1889 -- don't ask) in bitmap format.  If any of<BR>
> y'all<BR>
> > are interested, I'll be more than happy to send you a copy.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > =====<BR>
> > Gerry Harris<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
> > ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
> > Soldier's Companion <BR>
><BR>
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
> > "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius<BR>
> Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
> ><BR>
> > __________________________________________________<BR>
> > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:10:50 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> > Actually, not unless you have the hydrogen nicely mixed with air -- it<BR>
takes<BR>
> > about 3 cubic meters of air to combust one liter of LHyd.  It will<BR>
probably<BR>
> > catch fire, burn, and produce a very nice fireball, but that's not the<BR>
same<BR>
> > thing.<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, Hydrogen has a rather *wide* flammability range. You don't<BR>
> need *complete* combustion to have it go "boom".<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
> Look up the range for hydrogen. It's something like 5% to 75%...<BR>
<BR>
I think that was his point. As I recall from my chemistry classes, it's<BR>
very easy to get hydrogen gas to burn in air, and you get a pretty blue<BR>
flame that lasts a couple of seconds from a test-tube full, but to actually<BR>
get an explosion, you do need to get it very well mixed.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:17:39 -0500<BR>
From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: World Map<BR>
<BR>
At the hospital, if you really care to know.  :-(<BR>
<BR>
I created mine in frustration as well.  It was good exercise (of a sort).<BR>
There are some nicer ones out there, but I don't have any in my<BR>
bookmarks.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Oh great.  Where were you last night when I could have really used you?<BR>
><BR>
> --- Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:<BR>
> > There also<BR>
> > http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/Travmaps/<BR>
> ><BR>
> > If you prefer<BR>
> > .PCT,<BR>
> > .CDR,<BR>
> > .PDF,<BR>
> > .CPT,<BR>
> > .GIF,<BR>
> > .MAC,<BR>
> > .PCX,<BR>
> > .PNG, or<BR>
> > .PSD<BR>
> ><BR>
> > bloo<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > I've ended up recreating the Traveller world map template (believe<BR>
> > it<BR>
> > > or not, for Space 1889 -- don't ask) in bitmap format.  If any of<BR>
> > y'all<BR>
> > > are interested, I'll be more than happy to send you a copy.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > =====<BR>
> > > Gerry Harris<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
> > > ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
> > > Soldier's Companion <BR>
> ><BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
> > > "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius<BR>
> > Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > __________________________________________________<BR>
> > > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> > > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> =====<BR>
> Gerry Harris<BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
> ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
> Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
> "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
><BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
> http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:52:19 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
> To my mind the Empress Wave is just a thrown in 'Plot Device' that<BR>
> completely screws with CT Canon, and is a souped up version of the<BR>
> hinted at Primordials (a.k.a 'Baddies from the core') from DGP's MT<BR>
> products, with knobs on!<BR>
<BR>
But if the Empress Wave was a plot device, what was its principal<BR>
function?  The Regency was intended to keep "Classic Era" veteran<BR>
players happy, by keeping their favorite corner of the canonical<BR>
universe Virus-free, right?  Was the point of the Empress Wave to<BR>
keep the Zhodani busy and disorganized, and thus to prevent them<BR>
from gleefully taking the disintegration of the Third Imperium as<BR>
their cue to start a "Sixth, and Final, Frontier War," which<BR>
could really only end with the Regency being stomped on the<BR>
battlefield, and then reeducated out of existence by the Thought<BR>
Police...<BR>
<BR>
And *who* are the Primordials?<BR>
                                                         - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:20:05 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
<BR>
At 12:10 -0400 18/9/00, Andy Hewson wrote:<BR>
>(& I know this post is getting OT)<BR>
<BR>
Yup, and shouldn't be in this forum at all as I misposted it.<BR>
<BR>
>D&D games were not always the first called out at UKGC - in fact the<BR>
>'smaller' system were often the ones delt with first when getting the<BR>
>players together and getting them to tables with GM's.<BR>
<BR>
I've no real issues with how it was called - I was just responding to <BR>
a post about the lack of GURPS at US cons; I don't really think that <BR>
the order of calling influences the dominance of D&D (provided chaos <BR>
is avoided). It was interesting, however, to see how much interest <BR>
there was in the BITS free demos of T4 and GT as opposed to the <BR>
paying RPGA tournaments. Was the lack of interest (comparatively) in <BR>
the RPGA Traveller tournies (although written and run by BITS) a <BR>
result of charging?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:24:07 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
At 12:10 -0400 18/9/00, Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
>To my mind the Empress Wave is just a thrown in 'Plot Device' that<BR>
>completely screws with CT Canon, and is a souped up version of the<BR>
>hinted at Primordials (a.k.a 'Baddies from the core') from DGP's MT<BR>
>products, with knobs on!<BR>
<BR>
The Primordials stuff wasn't nearly as bad (in the sense of the canon issues).<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:25:22 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
At 12:50 -0400 17/9/00, "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> > I thought you came from the South-West and that you had cream teas<BR>
> > and scones with jam, honey and clotted cream, polished with fudge all<BR>
> > the time?<BR>
>I do, and we do.<BR>
>I guess that's why I'm so overweight. <g><BR>
<BR>
<g><BR>
<BR>
I thought that it was in the rules that you had to be overweight and<BR>
bearded to play Traveller <g,d,r>?<BR>
<BR>
<BLACK GLOBE = ON><BR>
<JUMP DRIVE = ON><BR>
<BR>
Dom :-)<BR>
<BR>
PS You'll all see how true this is of Nick when I post the GenCon<BR>
Pictures for BITS next week.<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3064<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3065</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 18 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3065<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Re: HIWG CD<BR>
Re: Titan Games Preview for (9/17/00)<BR>
Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Re: 4cm RAM grenades<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
How to create a NPC race?<BR>
Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Re: World Map<BR>
RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Re: How to create a NPC race?<BR>
Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Re: How to create a NPC race?<BR>
Re: How to create a NPC race?<BR>
RE: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Nasties<BR>
Re: World Map<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:32:29 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Designing a Rules-Light RPG For Hard SF<BR>
<BR>
At 12:10 +0000 18/9/00,  burnside@chorus.net wrote:<BR>
>We've moved this discussion to topica, where I've got a more detailed<BR>
>description of what I've got in mind.  If you choose to jump to<BR>
>topica to follow us, can you describe Hero Wars?<BR>
<BR>
What's the list traffic like - if it's heavy I won't be following :-/<BR>
<BR>
The core rules for Hero Wars (without much in the way of examples) <BR>
are downloadable at http://www.glorantha.com/ - I think they are <BR>
under the Hero Wars product entry.<BR>
<BR>
Quite a nice and freeform system.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:32:10 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 18 Sep 2000, John P. Raynor wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Was the point of the Empress Wave to<BR>
> keep the Zhodani busy and disorganized, and thus to prevent them<BR>
> from gleefully taking the disintegration of the Third Imperium as<BR>
> their cue to start a "Sixth, and Final, Frontier War," which<BR>
> could really only end with the Regency being stomped on the<BR>
> battlefield, and then reeducated out of existence by the Thought<BR>
> Police...<BR>
<BR>
But you would expect that fear of Virus would be enough to make them<BR>
behave.  A war would mean abandoning the border quarantines and would<BR>
force the Regency to strip forces away from its border with the Wilds.<BR>
The results would be catastrophic for all life behind the claw, and the<BR>
Zhodani know it.<BR>
I may be a TNE-loving heretic, but I have no use for the Empress Wave.<BR>
TNE should be about venturing out to rebuild civilization after Virus,<BR>
not about dealing with the cataclysm-of-the-week.  All this is just my<BR>
opinion, but my opinion is law (or will be when I'm dictator of the<BR>
world).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:36:59 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: HIWG CD<BR>
<BR>
My offer to host the whole thing still stands.<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
> > A DVD writer  would  be  expensive,  but  for  the  rest  of  us:<BR>
> > replacing a CD-ROM drive with a DVD-ROM drive is relatively cheap<BR>
> > and easy now (atleast on a PC, haven't tried on  a  Mac).  So  if<BR>
> > you want to go DVD then no problem.<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, *lots* of problems. There are at least *three* DIFFERENT<BR>
> formats for writable DVDs. And they aren't compatible. Nor is *any* of<BR>
> them supported by all drives.<BR>
> <BR>
> Unless you are dealing *solely* with "mass market" DVDs (the kind that<BR>
> are "pressed" not "written"), forget DVD drives for now.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:41:01 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Titan Games Preview for (9/17/00)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Steven Hudson" <shudson@lightspeed.ca><BR>
><BR>
> The CT Creed: There is no Game but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is<BR>
its<BR>
> Product<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
[Sounds of pummeling and muffled screams.]<BR>
<BR>
There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:44:31 -0500<BR>
From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
It might sound OT, but its for a Trav. related project<BR>
and my web searches are coming up blank.<BR>
<BR>
I've proposed Clergy as a class for Traveller in the past,<BR>
complete with ranks, but this was based only on the<BR>
Christian/Catholic tradition.<BR>
http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/impchrch.htm<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know where I might find, or can anyone<BR>
tell me, what might be appropriate ranks for other<BR>
faiths, particularly Islam, but also anything else.  At least<BR>
for those religions that have some heirarchy.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:02:56 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: 4cm RAM grenades<BR>
<BR>
Steve Hudson (responding to Kristian Miller) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
 >>Subject: Striker Design Question - 4cm RAM Grenades<BR>
 >><BR>
 >>Does anyone know why RAM grenades have such a high penetration versus<BR>
 >>any other 4cm HEAP round at the same Tech Level?  <BR>
 ><BR>
 >  It probably represents the advantages in package geometry available<BR>
 >to<BR>
 >very low velocity rounds.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, HEAP rounds should get the "count down 2 rows" bonus of mortar HE<BR>
rounds (or any "low velocity" explosive delivery system; maybe all MD <BR>
guns, too, as they have a more gentle launch profile than standard CPR<BR>
guns).  This is still insufficient to account for the Striker rating for<BR>
RAM grenades.  I think they should be de-rated as follows (count down<BR>
2 or 3 additional rows beyond low-velocity HEAP rounds of equivalent TL;<BR>
following example uses 2 rows):<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
TL  Weapon      HEAP PV     Notes<BR>
<BR>
8   4cm RAM GL  21      was 24  <BR>
9   4cm RAM GL  24      was 28; gave extra row for TL-9<BR>
10  4cm RAM GL  26      was 32<BR>
11  4cm RAM GL  28      was 36<BR>
13  4cm RAM GL  30      was 38; rifle grenade<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
RAM auto GL grenades have the same PV as ordinary RAM grenades & RAM<BR>
rifle grenades.  These PVs should also be used for MegaTraveller RAM<BR>
grenades.  Note that even a de-rated TL-8 RAM grenade can still do in<BR>
a soldier wearing TL-14+ battledress, so game balance isn't altered<BR>
much.<BR>
 <BR>
Ludowick <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:07:09 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
On 15 Sep 2000, at 10:09, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Mark, I had a *great time* as a RSO.  Really.  Honestly.  Right up until<BR>
> that mental midget swept us with the muzzle of the MG-42.<BR>
<BR>
That gives me the heebies just thinking about it.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:07:09 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
On 17 Sep 2000, at 9:46, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 11:53 AM 9/17/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >One can never be too careful with firearms...<BR>
> <BR>
> One of the nicest compliments I've gotten in years came last year at Mark<BR>
> Cook's house.  He was showing us his weapons, and handed me his M-16.  I<BR>
> instinctively checked the chamber, and he remarked that it was nice to deal with<BR>
> people who knew what they were doing.<BR>
> <BR>
> When I teach people about weapons, I tell them that every weapon is loaded<BR>
> until you see the empty chamber yourself.  And the moment you can't see the<BR>
> chamber, it's loaded again. -- <BR>
<BR>
Back in basic I got into a scrap with some sod over this sort of thing. He was <BR>
waving his M16 (fully assembled) around in the barracks when we were cleaning <BR>
our weapons, and refused to stop when I asked him to, even when everyone agreed <BR>
and explained why (it's not like our instructors hadn't told everyone again and <BR>
again anyway). He then got agro when I took his rifle off him after he <BR>
intentionally pointed it at me and ask me what I was going to do about it.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:13:50 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: How to create a NPC race?<BR>
<BR>
I've been browsing my SF collection, and I've decided that there are a<BR>
couple of races that I'd like to see in a Traveller milieu.  For a number<BR>
of reasons, I do not consider them likely candidates for Player Characters.<BR>
Can anyone give me some guidelines for creating them as a NPC race, such<BR>
that they are not practical for a PC race?  Preferred system is CT/MT/T4,<BR>
but I have no objection to GT or TNE as well.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:02:05 -0400<BR>
From: "David Reed" <david.reed@xolutions.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
[I'll start with the ObTrav: Anyone know what software development tools the various Traveller cultures use?  I suspect that Vilani still use VM/Cobol for most everything since that upgrade to Cobol II was a total snafu.  The Solomani are definite MS Visual C++ guys.  I suspect the masochistic Aslan are Java developers (the Hivers sold them Java on a lark, since they couldn't find a better use for it).  The Vargr are most likely VB developers, since their so Attention Deficit-challenged to begin with, no other tool would let them finish anything.  K'Kree?  Hrm.  Dunno, something that everyone else is using, I imagine.  FoxPro maybe?  Nah, that's a predator.  The Hivers?  Probably exclusively Linux and C, with a smattering of LISP and Python thrown in for good measure.  The Third Imperium seems like a Perl kind group, especially those Syleans...  Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled flame-bait.]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Egad!  Two evils do not make a good!  Mac -AND- Pascal in the same sentence with the word GOOD?  For shame...  I can lurk no longer.<BR>
<BR>
Someone else who shall remain nameless ('cuz I clipped it somewhere and it got lost in Clipboard Hell) wrote:<BR>
>> BTW, your reason above is why I always write in Java these days, if I've got<BR>
>> the choice.<BR>
<BR>
*shudder*  Fortunately, many wise IT project managers don't give "choices" to developers anymore... those who've been burned in Java Project Hell at least once.  Then there are some, like the ones at TeleCheck, that never learn -- foex, Java/Oracle trading system, 2+ years development time and still counting: VB/MTS trading system, 3 months development time and already making beaucoup $$.  Of course, that's all unsubstantiated rumor.  :)<BR>
<BR>
>> No need to learn a new language, no need to port.<BR>
<BR>
Heresy!  I sentence you to three weeks hard learning in a C# boot camp, then six days on .NET probation -- at the end of which time you'll be a highly productive member of the developer community.<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> extemporized:<BR>
>Unfortunately, Java runs equally slowly on all platforms.<BR>
<BR>
Amen.  If the project ever gets completed and if it runs at all, on any platform.  Java must die.<BR>
<BR>
*lurk*<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
// David Reed <David.Reed@Xolutions.net> 713.256.3501<BR>
//<BR>
// "No blame should attach to telling the truth. <BR>
//  But it does, it does."  - Anita Brookner<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:23:36 -0500<BR>
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
Gregory Carl Kettler wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Was the point of the Empress Wave to<BR>
> > keep the Zhodani busy and disorganized, and thus to prevent them<BR>
> > from gleefully taking the disintegration of the Third Imperium as<BR>
> > their cue to start a "Sixth, and Final, Frontier War," which<BR>
> > could really only end with the Regency being stomped on the<BR>
> > battlefield, and then reeducated out of existence by the Thought<BR>
> > Police...<BR>
 <BR>
> But you would expect that fear of Virus would be enough to make them<BR>
> behave.  A war would mean abandoning the border quarantines and would<BR>
> force the Regency to strip forces away from its border with the Wilds.<BR>
> The results would be catastrophic for all life behind the claw, and the<BR>
> Zhodani know it.<BR>
<BR>
> I may be a TNE-loving heretic, but I have no use for the Empress Wave.<BR>
> TNE should be about venturing out to rebuild civilization after Virus,<BR>
> not about dealing with the cataclysm-of-the-week.  All this is just my<BR>
> opinion, but my opinion is law (or will be when I'm dictator of the<BR>
> world).<BR>
<BR>
Two points, which are mostly opinion and one which is almost entirely<BR>
opinion...<BR>
<BR>
The Empress Wave was said to have originated from "the direction of the<BR>
core", not from the galactic core itself. It's possible that this wave<BR>
is a coming from somewhere inside the Zhodani sphere, not too very far<BR>
from the coreward border of the Third Imperium.  If this is the case,<BR>
the lack of description in earlier products can be excused, by the fact<BR>
that the origin of the wave hasn't occurred until the Third Imperium is<BR>
distracted by its Rebellion Wars.<BR>
<BR>
IAC, the Zhodani haven't really shown much interest in conquering the<BR>
Spinward Marches in the past. They have been in the area for thousands<BR>
of years, but haven't expanded their borders very much during all that<BR>
time.  The "Frontier Wars" have always looked strategically defensive to<BR>
me, like they were mostly attempting to discourage the Third Imperium<BR>
from further expansion in this area. The breakup and collapse of the<BR>
Imperium, by any means, would probably be met by the Zhodani with a<BR>
shrug and a "we knew it was bound to eventually happen", and that's all.<BR>
<BR>
As for what GDW wanted from The Empress Wave...  I actually think TNE<BR>
was to be an bridge product, rather than the setting that would be<BR>
carried forward into the future. The RCES and Regency were meant to<BR>
"defeat" Virus together, perhaps by allying with certain strains of it,<BR>
and then be overwhelmed together by The Empress Wave.  <BR>
<BR>
I figure there would have been a few years of story for this period,<BR>
leading up to Wave where Aslan, Vargr, and all branches of Humanti would<BR>
be thrown together and thoroughly intermixed as the Wave sweeps<BR>
through.  Then, I figured, there would be another "discontinuity", this<BR>
time of several hundred (perhaps thousands of) years, and the<BR>
introduction of (what would have been) the fourth Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
All speculation on my part, of course, and probably not anywhere close<BR>
to what the line manager had in mind. Heck, the truth may be that GDW's<BR>
staff didn't really know where they were going to take the Traveller<BR>
universe.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 15:29:34 -0700<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
At 04:44 PM 9/18/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>It might sound OT, but its for a Trav. related project<BR>
>and my web searches are coming up blank.<BR>
><BR>
>I've proposed Clergy as a class for Traveller in the past,<BR>
>complete with ranks, but this was based only on the<BR>
>Christian/Catholic tradition.<BR>
>http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/impchrch.htm<BR>
><BR>
>Does anyone know where I might find, or can anyone<BR>
>tell me, what might be appropriate ranks for other<BR>
>faiths, particularly Islam, but also anything else.  At least<BR>
>for those religions that have some heirarchy.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
You might want to look into Zoroastrianism. Although not possessed of a<BR>
massive hierarchy, it is highly structured, ritualized, and has certainly<BR>
stood the test of time. I could well see it surviving into the distant<BR>
future in some form or another. A website that gives a good overview of the<BR>
faith is: http://www.zarathushtra.com/<BR>
<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
>bloo<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:48:01 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
At 17:21 -0400 18/9/00, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:<BR>
>Unfortunately, Java runs equally slowly on all platforms.<BR>
<BR>
Why!? Probably an off list answer would be best, but does Java really <BR>
run as slowly on all the new machines as it does on my old 603e Mac? <BR>
I mean, processor speed is at least an order of magnitude faster, and <BR>
RAM is up by about the same (12Mb to 128Mb). Are there overheards <BR>
inherent in java, or is this a MS driven thing with the OS?<BR>
<BR>
I'm not looking for a flame war, and I'd prefer if people came back <BR>
to me off list. It just seems to me that people have been saying that <BR>
java is slow for a long time now, and that hardware should have moved <BR>
on a fair bit...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:51:02 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: World Map<BR>
<BR>
At 17:21 -0400 18/9/00, Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
>Oh great.  Where were you last night when I could have really used you?<BR>
<BR>
Steady! <g,d,r><BR>
<BR>
On a serious note - doesn't BZA or someone else on the list have <BR>
these too, maybe as vectors?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:58:41 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
<begin transmission recording from Consulate listening post 234><BR>
At 17:21 -0400 18/9/00,  "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu> wrote:<BR>
>But if the Empress Wave was a plot device, what was its principal<BR>
>function?  The Regency was intended to keep "Classic Era" veteran<BR>
>players happy, by keeping their favorite corner of the canonical<BR>
>universe Virus-free, right?  Was the point of the Empress Wave to<BR>
>keep the Zhodani busy and disorganized, and thus to prevent them<BR>
>from gleefully taking the disintegration of the Third Imperium as<BR>
>their cue to start a "Sixth, and Final, Frontier War," which<BR>
>could really only end with the Regency being stomped on the<BR>
>battlefield, and then reeducated out of existence by the Thought<BR>
>Police...<BR>
<BR>
<end transmission recording from Consulate listening post 234><BR>
<BR>
"And that attitude, trainees of the Tavrchedl' is the reason that the <BR>
policy of limited aggression to contain the Imperial barbarians was <BR>
adopted. Their ignorance and fear of psionics threaten our very <BR>
existence. It is our duty to protect the Driantia Zhdantia and all <BR>
its allies from the immoral, corrupt and lying barbaric states to <BR>
Trailing."<BR>
<BR>
Lecture given at the start of the second year of training for <BR>
Consular Guard units assigned to Tvarchedl' operations.<BR>
<BR>
>And *who* are the Primordials?<BR>
<BR>
The best sources of information are the GDW supplement 'Knightfall' <BR>
and DGP's MTJ number 4. They are another ancient forerunner race, <BR>
massively psionic IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:04:26 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: How to create a NPC race?<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
> I've been browsing my SF collection, and I've decided that there are a<BR>
> couple of races that I'd like to see in a Traveller milieu.  For a number<BR>
> of reasons, I do not consider them likely candidates for Player Characters.<BR>
> Can anyone give me some guidelines for creating them as a NPC race, such<BR>
> that they are not practical for a PC race?  Preferred system is CT/MT/T4,<BR>
> but I have no objection to GT or TNE as well.<BR>
<BR>
I would just create them in the same way as other races, and then<BR>
declare them offlimit as PC races. You seem to have a reason for doing<BR>
so. Tell the players the reason if you feel like it, or just say NO WAY<BR>
when they ask if they can play that race. Should work well enough.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:06:59 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
"J. Paul Sanders" wrote:<BR>
> You might want to look into Zoroastrianism. Although not possessed of a<BR>
> massive hierarchy, it is highly structured, ritualized, and has certainly<BR>
> stood the test of time. I could well see it surviving into the distant<BR>
> future in some form or another. A website that gives a good overview of the<BR>
> faith is: http://www.zarathushtra.com/<BR>
<BR>
Well, that "one form or another" is more correct than you might suspect.<BR>
<BR>
Christianity is one example of a permutation of that faith. At least it<BR>
(Judaism actually) borrows some concepts (the Creator/Adversary duality)<BR>
from it.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:15:04 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to create a NPC race?<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin writes:<BR>
> I've been browsing my SF collection, and I've decided that there are a<BR>
> couple of races that I'd like to see in a Traveller milieu.  For a number<BR>
> of reasons, I do not consider them likely candidates for Player Characters.<BR>
> Can anyone give me some guidelines for creating them as a NPC race, such<BR>
> that they are not practical for a PC race?  Preferred system is CT/MT/T4,<BR>
> but I have no objection to GT or TNE as well.<BR>
<BR>
Well, if the race isn't practical as PCs, there's probably a reason.  Just<BR>
note in the description of the race whatever properties make them not practical<BR>
as PCs -- if a race has some serious disadvantage which makes them unplayable,<BR>
most players will be willing to not play one.<BR>
<BR>
If the problem is that the race is unacceptably powerful in one way or another,<BR>
just ban them as PCs, or in GURPS, realize that the point cost of the race <BR>
will probably be high enough to discourage players from wanting to play one.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:36:40 -0500<BR>
From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to create a NPC race?<BR>
<BR>
Ask MM for his draft on Alien creation for T4.1/T5.<BR>
I've misplaced it, but recall that it was pretty good.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I've been browsing my SF collection, and I've decided that there are a<BR>
> couple of races that I'd like to see in a Traveller milieu.  For a number<BR>
> of reasons, I do not consider them likely candidates for Player Characters.<BR>
> Can anyone give me some guidelines for creating them as a NPC race, such<BR>
> that they are not practical for a PC race?  Preferred system is CT/MT/T4,<BR>
> but I have no objection to GT or TNE as well.<BR>
> --<BR>
> Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:43:53 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
On 18 Sep 00, at 23:16, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance<BR>
<BR>
> > I know Delphi, C++ and Jade; learning another language and rewriting the<BR>
> > thing just to port aseems a little excessive :*><BR>
<BR>
> Wow, someone knows Jade.<BR>
> Of course coming from Christchurch, it's more likely that you would than<BR>
> someone from elsewhere. (Jade is something else I teach, BTW, our company are<BR>
> the official training partners for Jade Corp)<BR>
<BR>
Funny how Chch Poly pushes Jade and has Jade Corp and Aoraki as a <BR>
major supporters :*> I actually quite like Jade, it really forces you to use <BR>
good programming practice and its datebase functions are particularly <BR>
strong.<BR>
<BR>
> BTW, your reason above is why I always write in Java these days, if I've got<BR>
> the choice. No need to learn a new language, no need to port. <grin><BR>
<BR>
But I didn't actually get a choice for this app. The assignment said "thou <BR>
shall write in Delphi".<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:43:08 -0500<BR>
From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
"J. Paul Sanders" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 04:44 PM 9/18/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
> >It might sound OT, but its for a Trav. related project<BR>
> >and my web searches are coming up blank.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I've proposed Clergy as a class for Traveller in the past,<BR>
> >complete with ranks, but this was based only on the<BR>
> >Christian/Catholic tradition.<BR>
> >http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/impchrch.htm<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Does anyone know where I might find, or can anyone<BR>
> >tell me, what might be appropriate ranks for other<BR>
> >faiths, particularly Islam, but also anything else.  At least<BR>
> >for those religions that have some heirarchy.<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> You might want to look into Zoroastrianism. Although not possessed of a<BR>
> massive hierarchy, it is highly structured, ritualized, and has certainly<BR>
> stood the test of time. I could well see it surviving into the distant<BR>
> future in some form or another. A website that gives a good overview of the<BR>
> faith is: http://www.zarathushtra.com/<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, I can't find anything useful there.  I'm not looking for<BR>
info about religions, just the heirarchies.  For example, in the<BR>
Christian/Catholic<BR>
tradition, I know where Bishops, Deacons, and Accolytes are in the heirarchy.<BR>
I've heard the terms Mullah and Imam with regard to Islam, but I have no idea<BR>
what the relation is and if there are any other titles.  Same for Buddhism and<BR>
everything else.  I'm clueless.<BR>
<BR>
That is all I want.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:51:10 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
on 9/18/00 3:48 PM, SD Mooney at dom@cybergoths.u-net.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 17:21 -0400 18/9/00, Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:<BR>
>> Unfortunately, Java runs equally slowly on all platforms.<BR>
> <BR>
> Why!? Probably an off list answer would be best, but does Java really<BR>
> run as slowly on all the new machines as it does on my old 603e Mac?<BR>
> I mean, processor speed is at least an order of magnitude faster, and<BR>
> RAM is up by about the same (12Mb to 128Mb). Are there overheards<BR>
> inherent in java, or is this a MS driven thing with the OS?<BR>
<BR>
Short answer. Java is interpreted.  Just like perl.  Very portable but not<BR>
as fast as compiled code.  If machine speeds keep going up, it won't be an<BR>
issue.  When Cray starts writing modelling  applications in java...<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:38:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Back in basic I got into a scrap with some sod over this sort of<BR>
> thing. He was waving his M16 (fully assembled) around in the barracks<BR>
> when we were cleaning our weapons, and refused to stop when I asked<BR>
> him to, even when everyone agreed and explained why (it's not like<BR>
> our instructors hadn't told everyone again and again anyway). He then<BR>
> got agro when I took his rifle off him after he intentionally pointed<BR>
> it at me and ask me what I was going to do about it.<BR>
<BR>
I bet he *really* got laid into by whoever was in charge of your group<BR>
when they found out. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:02:34 -0500<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Nasties<BR>
<BR>
Yippie! Hurrah! The More: The Merrier!<BR>
If you don't have really bad**s baddies, whats the point?<BR>
<BR>
Heya<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
Pat Connaughton<BR>
e-mail - patconnaughton@earthlink.net<BR>
homepage - www.home.earthink.net/~patconnaughton<BR>
ICQ # 2535086<BR>
"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>
how to reign"<BR>
Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2000 3:11 PM<BR>
Subject: Nasties<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 09:17 AM 9/17/00 -0700, A O'Mary wrote:<BR>
> >>>Subject: Re: GURPS:DRAKA<BR>
> <BR>
> >Another unpleasant surprise would be Morthans from David Gerrold's 'Star<BR>
> Wolf' books. <BR>
> >Put them AND a Draka variant in the same universe and things get very<BR>
> interesting indeed.<BR>
> >Now, I just hope my players aren't on the list to see this.<BR>
> <BR>
> Why not throw in the Kzinti and the Moties while you're at it?<BR>
> <BR>
> Les<BR>
> <BR>
> ====================================<BR>
> Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
> ==================================== <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:23:37 -0500<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: World Map<BR>
<BR>
yes, please<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
To: GDW House Rules <gdwhouserules@onelist.com>; TML<BR>
<traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 2:36 PM<BR>
Subject: World Map<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I've ended up recreating the Traveller world map template (believe it<BR>
> or not, for Space 1889 -- don't ask) in bitmap format.  If any of y'all<BR>
> are interested, I'll be more than happy to send you a copy.<BR>
><BR>
> =====<BR>
> Gerry Harris<BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
******************<BR>
> ther Traveller - http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
> Soldier's Companion -<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
******************<BR>
> "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" - Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act<BR>
3, Scene 1<BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
******************<BR>
><BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
> http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3065<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3066</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 19 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3066<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Test Post - Hopefully - Please Move Along<BR>
Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
The marines (was: The Kinunir - but wasn't really!)<BR>
Re: World Map<BR>
Ships Locker<BR>
Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Nasties<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Re: World Map<BR>
RE: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Re: Nasties<BR>
RE: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
RE: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
RE: hairy ticks and bars<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:26:17 -0700<BR>
From: Steve Charlton <Steve.Charlton@ifsna.com><BR>
Subject: Test Post - Hopefully - Please Move Along<BR>
<BR>
Nothing to see here... Please step lively...<BR>
<BR>
Steve Charlton<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:31:03 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Loren wrote:<BR>
>>>>[Me] So, I take it that you are going to follow the tradition introduced<BR>
>>>>in the "Family d'Alembert" series and have Strephon abdicate in favour of<BR>
>>>>Ciencia...<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>[Loren] y'see -- this is how rumors get started (smileys or no smileys).<BR>
>>>Why does a question about birthdays mean that I am going to have Strephon<BR>
>>>abdicate?<BR>
>><BR>
>>[Doug] Because we're a rabid bunch of fanboys (and girls) who delight in<BR>
>>coming up with weird plot twists.<BR>
><BR>
>[Loren] S'OK for you to say, but Im the one who will have to deal with 85<BR>
>e-mails pleading with me to not have Strephon abdicate because it will upset<BR>
>their campaigns, 4 who think it's a great idea, and 1 that wants to know if<BR>
>he can abdicate in favor of a penguin.<BR>
<BR>
<splort, cough, choke> If I had been drinking that would have been one keyboard<BR>
kill to you, Loren. As it was, I _nearly_ had to do the "explain to work<BR>
colleagues" routine...<BR>
<BR>
As the instigator of the first question, I guess I have to say "ma'af, ma'af"<BR>
("sorry!") for pressing the "Whither Traveller?" button. Personally, whatever<BR>
happens to the Big S (abdication/assassination/anything) is in the future for my<BR>
campaign, so I wasn't _too_ concerned when I asked that question (it _really<BR>
was_ just a dig. Worked, too! ;-). I mean, I really _like_ the guy - I've even<BR>
PLAYED him at a convention!<BR>
<BR>
...although the penguin comment may explain why he likes walking in his fountain<BR>
and taking long showers... <smack> ok, ok, I'll stop now! ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:36:11 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: The marines (was: The Kinunir - but wasn't really!)<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
"tsykoduk" said:<BR>
>The Marines land, beat the heck out of the place, and then turn it over to<BR>
>the regular Army O. The army is used for defense and protracted land<BR>
>battles.<BR>
<BR>
From the TML, a while ago:<BR>
"The Navy shells the beach.<BR>
The Marines take the beach.<BR>
The Army secures the perimeter and builds barracks.<BR>
The Air Force lives in the barracks."<BR>
<BR>
[and an Air Force officer's response:]<BR>
"Only if they have air-conditioning and refrigerators, otherwise we'll be in a<BR>
hotel downtown, thank you!"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:23:55 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: World Map<BR>
<BR>
I hope you're feeling better.<BR>
<BR>
- --- Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:<BR>
> At the hospital, if you really care to know.  :-(<BR>
> <BR>
> I created mine in frustration as well.  It was good exercise (of a<BR>
> sort).<BR>
> There are some nicer ones out there, but I don't have any in my<BR>
> bookmarks.<BR>
> <BR>
> bloo<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Oh great.  Where were you last night when I could have really used<BR>
> you?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > --- Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:<BR>
> > > There also<BR>
> > > http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/Travmaps/<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > If you prefer<BR>
> > > .PCT,<BR>
> > > .CDR,<BR>
> > > .PDF,<BR>
> > > .CPT,<BR>
> > > .GIF,<BR>
> > > .MAC,<BR>
> > > .PCX,<BR>
> > > .PNG, or<BR>
> > > .PSD<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > bloo<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > > I've ended up recreating the Traveller world map template<BR>
> (believe<BR>
> > > it<BR>
> > > > or not, for Space 1889 -- don't ask) in bitmap format.  If any<BR>
> of<BR>
> > > y'all<BR>
> > > > are interested, I'll be more than happy to send you a copy.<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > =====<BR>
> > > > Gerry Harris<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
> > > > ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
> > > > Soldier's Companion <BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
> > > > "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius<BR>
> > > Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > __________________________________________________<BR>
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> > > > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > =====<BR>
> > Gerry Harris<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
> > ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
> > Soldier's Companion <BR>
><BR>
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
> > "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius<BR>
> Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
> ><BR>
> > __________________________________________________<BR>
> > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 02:39:27 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Ships Locker<BR>
<BR>
Just a quick note to say that for the first time in ages I've put somethin<BR>
new on my traveller website...<BR>
<BR>
An Excel format TNE ships locker for 4 Characters.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/shipslocker.xls<BR>
<BR>
To see the actual page it's linked from, go to:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/trav.html<BR>
<BR>
BTW, just started to GM a TNE game tonight...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:51:25 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 5:54:am<BR>
Subject: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> The real question is how flexible is Mexal?<BR>
<BR>
No, now the real question - since the subject line - is, "Is Mexal a<BR>
penguin?!"  If the answer is yes... errrr, how do you type with those<BR>
flipper-wing-thingies?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:04:57 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
On 18 Sep 2000, at 16:38, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Back in basic I got into a scrap with some sod over this sort of<BR>
> > thing. He was waving his M16 (fully assembled) around in the barracks<BR>
> > when we were cleaning our weapons, and refused to stop when I asked<BR>
> > him to, even when everyone agreed and explained why (it's not like<BR>
> > our instructors hadn't told everyone again and again anyway). He then<BR>
> > got agro when I took his rifle off him after he intentionally pointed<BR>
> > it at me and ask me what I was going to do about it.<BR>
> <BR>
> I bet he *really* got laid into by whoever was in charge of your group<BR>
> when they found out. <BR>
<BR>
The Powers That Be never did - it was dealt with 'in house' as it were.<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:37:48 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Nasties<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Les wrote:<BR>
>Why not throw in the Kzinti and the Moties while you're at it?<BR>
<BR>
Already been done (albiet in a toned-down manner).<BR>
<BR>
Aslan = Kzinti (DON'T smile at them showing any teeth).<BR>
<BR>
Droyne = Moties (castes, etc).<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:39:22 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
John asked:<BR>
>I have copies of the booklets which Paranoia Press published<BR>
>regarding these two sectors, but I just can't take them seriously.<BR>
>According, for instance, to Paranoia Press, all of the star systems<BR>
>in subsector "K" of the Beyond (the "I'Sred*Ni Heptad") are laid<BR>
>out in a *highly* implausible hexagonal pattern.<BR>
><BR>
>So just what *is* the status of the Beyond and the Vanguard Reaches,<BR>
>as far as the canonical universe goes?<BR>
<BR>
These two sectors were licenced to Games Workshop (UK) by GDW very early on,<BR>
like 1980 or so. Don Rapp (thanks Security Leak - I had forgotten his name!) and<BR>
Chuck Kallenbach III developed them, and some of the naive spirit of "Early<BR>
Traveller" shows through. The Heptad, for example, is explained away as a series<BR>
of Ancient sites, all pulverised. Another example is the ringworld.<BR>
<BR>
Later on (early '90's?), Chuck re-wrote a good deal of this material, with copy<BR>
that stated saying that "wild rumours about ringworlds" were just that - wild<BR>
rumours. This material was up on the web, but I've just checked my link and it<BR>
appears to have moved or otherwise be unavailable.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, Don also came up with the Serpent-class Scout Ship, some pics of which are<BR>
at the Trav Downport.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, was is wrong with the Heptad? Create a handwave! Couldn't the Ancients<BR>
have created a very large multi-directional sensor array to look all about the<BR>
galaxy? And when they saw what was coming in the distance, destroyed the array<BR>
and ran off to hide? ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:46:25 -0700<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
An obvious solution to the Empress Wave timing problems is to have it propgate<BR>
moderately faster than light - a couple of hexes per year - rather than<BR>
exactly at the speed of light. There's lots of canon suggestions that psi<BR>
phenomena are FTL...<BR>
<BR>
Getting all the timing right is still tricky, of course. Longbow EM observations<BR>
of the wave only travel at the speed of light, so all it gets to see is evidence<BR>
upstream - Zhodani warships affected by the collapse of civilization, etc.<BR>
The Longbow psionic signal that Strephon saw has to propograte ahead of<BR>
it much faster than light (no matter what speed the Wave goes) to be<BR>
detected, etc.<BR>
<BR>
I gather from some source (which I know cannot recall) that the inspiration<BR>
behind<BR>
the Wave was basically just coming up with an explanation for the empress-figure<BR>
on the TNE rulebook cover, which is kind of silly...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:20:48 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
<BR>
>Does anyone know where I might find, or can anyone tell me, what might be<BR>
appropriate ranks for >other faiths, particularly Islam, but also anything<BR>
else.  At least for those religions that<BR>
>have some heirarchy.<BR>
<BR>
This sounds like fertile ground indeed.  The Tibetan government in exile<BR>
probably has some stuff on its web page (and Tibetan Buddhist has a lot of<BR>
structure, having been both the clergy and government of Tibet until the<BR>
Chinese took over in 1959).  I'll bet many Islamic governments and movements<BR>
have recruiting web pages with this kind of stuff in English.  This could be<BR>
a fun search.  I think all of the major religions have some part that is<BR>
highly structured, as well as a part that is more mystical and<BR>
non-hierarchical ... sort of like Field and Bureaucracy.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:20:49 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
><BR>
>Unfortunately, I can't find anything useful there.  I'm not looking for<BR>
info about religions,<BR>
>just the heirarchies.  For example, in the Christian/Catholic tradition, I<BR>
know where Bishops,<BR>
>Deacons, and Accolytes are in the heirarchy. I've heard the terms Mullah<BR>
and Imam with regard to<BR>
>Islam, but I have no idea what the relation is and if there are any other<BR>
titles.  Same for<BR>
>Buddhism and everything else.  I'm clueless.<BR>
><BR>
>That is all I want.<BR>
<BR>
You just want a table of ranks, preferably comparative, like in the back of<BR>
that coffee table book on World War 2 that I looked at a very long time ago.<BR>
I'm not sure where to find it.  I think you'll actually have to learn about<BR>
the religions to understand the hierarchies, just as you have to learn about<BR>
militaries to understand their rank systems.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:23:01 -0500<BR>
From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: World Map<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.  I am.  It's just Psuedo-Gout.<BR>
Not gout but just like it.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I hope you're feeling better.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:30:17 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm.. amazing lack of posting ability ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of fadetozero<BR>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 12:21 PM<BR>
To: traveller-digest@mpgn.com<BR>
Subject: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
it's really too bad i'm not able to post to the TML, as i have answers for<BR>
everything (or, i'm really opinionated.  i haven't decided, altho friends<BR>
suggest the latter interpretation...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:00:57<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 10:07 AM 9/19/2000 +1200, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On 15 Sep 2000, at 10:09, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Mark, I had a *great time* as a RSO.  Really.  Honestly.  Right up until<BR>
>> that mental midget swept us with the muzzle of the MG-42.<BR>
><BR>
>That gives me the heebies just thinking about it.<BR>
<BR>
This person, whom Mark and Lori had warned me about earlier in the day, was<BR>
a putz from minute one.  I was not overly surprised when it happened.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:07:05 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 18 Sep 2000, at 16:38, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > Back in basic I got into a scrap with some sod over this sort of<BR>
>> > thing. He was waving his M16 (fully assembled) around in the barracks<BR>
>> > when we were cleaning our weapons, and refused to stop when I asked<BR>
>> > him to, even when everyone agreed and explained why (it's not like<BR>
>> > our instructors hadn't told everyone again and again anyway). He then<BR>
>> > got agro when I took his rifle off him after he intentionally pointed<BR>
>> > it at me and ask me what I was going to do about it.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I bet he *really* got laid into by whoever was in charge of your group<BR>
>> when they found out. <BR>
><BR>
> The Powers That Be never did - it was dealt with 'in house' as it were.<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking of the non-com in charge, not the officers (*Never*<BR>
worry officers with info they don't need to know :-)<BR>
<BR>
No, I've never been in the military, but I grew up as amn "off base<BR>
dependent" (of a returee's widow). So I spent some time around a few<BR>
noncoms. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:25:01 -0700<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
At 06:43 PM 9/18/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>> You might want to look into Zoroastrianism. Although not possessed of a<BR>
>> massive hierarchy, it is highly structured, ritualized, and has certainly<BR>
>> stood the test of time. I could well see it surviving into the distant<BR>
>> future in some form or another. A website that gives a good overview of the<BR>
>> faith is: http://www.zarathushtra.com/<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>Unfortunately, I can't find anything useful there.  I'm not looking for<BR>
>info about religions, just the heirarchies.  For example, in the<BR>
>Christian/Catholic<BR>
>tradition, I know where Bishops, Deacons, and Accolytes are in the heirarchy.<BR>
>I've heard the terms Mullah and Imam with regard to Islam, but I have no idea<BR>
>what the relation is and if there are any other titles.  Same for Buddhism<BR>
and<BR>
>everything else.  I'm clueless.<BR>
><BR>
>That is all I want.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, here you go (maybe...). Below I've listed the Zoroastrian name, office,<BR>
and the rough equivalent (if possible) in terms of Christianity/Catholicism:<BR>
<BR>
Hierarchy:<BR>
<BR>
Mobed - Head Priest - Archbishop<BR>
Dastur - High Priest - Bishop<BR>
Magus - Priest (inner temple) - Priest<BR>
Ervad - Priest (outer temple) - Deacon<BR>
Osta - 'Disciple' (candidate) - Seminarian<BR>
<BR>
Types/titles of Magus (Priests):<BR>
<BR>
Zot - Officiating Priest - Celebrant<BR>
Raspi - Assistant Priest - Con celebrant<BR>
Yozdathregar - 'Purifier' Priest - Exorcist<BR>
Ratu - High Judge - Doctor of the Church<BR>
Dawar - Judge - Canon Lawyer (90% of the TML) :P<BR>
Ahu - Spiritual Lord/Master - Abbot/Prior (leader of a religious community)<BR>
Aethrapaiti - Teacher - Religious Teacher (not always a priest)<BR>
<BR>
Misc:<BR>
<BR>
Magi - Priestly Tribe - Priestly Class (like the "Levites" in Judaism)<BR>
Athornan - A male of the priestly tribe - (A Magi eligible to become a priest)<BR>
Osta - A female of a priestly family - (wife, daughter, sister, or niece of<BR>
a priest)<BR>
Behdin - Non-Magi faithful - A lay person<BR>
Anjoman - Religious Community OR Fraternal Association (headed by an Ahu or<BR>
an Aethrapaiti)<BR>
Panthak - Priestly Jurisdiction - Diocese<BR>
Panchayat - Local Association - Parish/Church<BR>
Dar-e Mihr - A Lesser Fire-Temple - Shrine<BR>
Dakhma - 'Tower of Silence' - Church Cemetery<BR>
Dharma-Shala - House of Charity - Charitable Institution (Society of St.<BR>
Vincent DePaul)<BR>
Karb/Karapan (singular/plural) - Priest(s) of the Old Religion - Heretic(s)<BR>
Pairika - Witch/Sorceress - Apostate<BR>
<BR>
There are of course variations as well as additions/deletions depending on<BR>
which of the three branches of Mazdayasni (Zoroastrianism) you're dealing<BR>
with (Iranian = conservative, Parsi = moderate, or Avestan = liberal). If<BR>
you need other sources besides the one I listed previously, try these two:<BR>
www.avesta.org (the glossary is helpful) or www.zoroastrian.org<BR>
<BR>
Anyway - if you do decide to use this in a Traveller context, I hope you'll<BR>
send me a copy as I'd really be interested in seeing what you come up with. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Cordially,<BR>
Paul Sanders<BR>
Clans MacAlasdair, Comyn, & O'Delany<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:52:34 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Nasties<BR>
<BR>
>Yippie! Hurrah! The More: The Merrier!<BR>
>If you don't have really bad**s baddies, whats the point?<BR>
<BR>
 Depends on how much moralizing you dope your game with...<BR>
<BR>
 If I want talkative baddies, humans will do. If I want hordes of alien evil, <BR>
I'll just write up the Phfor...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:48:41 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
>Unfortunately, I can't find anything useful there.  I'm not looking for<BR>
>info about religions, just the heirarchies.  For example, in the<BR>
>Christian/Catholic<BR>
>tradition, I know where Bishops, Deacons, and Accolytes are in the<BR>
heirarchy.<BR>
>I've heard the terms Mullah and Imam with regard to Islam, but I have no<BR>
idea<BR>
>what the relation is and if there are any other titles.  Same for Buddhism<BR>
and<BR>
>everything else.  I'm clueless.<BR>
><BR>
>That is all I want.<BR>
<BR>
If you're looking for a "universal table" of Islamic ranks, good luck. There<BR>
really isn't one. You might find a hierarchy for a given sect of Islam, or a<BR>
given Islamic organization, but even that can be difficult and confusing.<BR>
<BR>
For example, among the Sunni Muslims, an Imam is pretty much a prayer<BR>
leader. There are many Imams, and they may be appointed in a variety of<BR>
different ways depending on the situation. In addition, in some areas, there<BR>
are also Qadis, or judges. There isn't any real hierarchy.<BR>
<BR>
In Shia Islam there is no longer an Imam, although there once was. He<BR>
disappeared from view, and in his absence the members of the ulama (the<BR>
loose body of Shia clergy) serve sort of like this hidden Imam's deputies.<BR>
There is a hierarchy of sorts. A mujtahid is sort of like a judge who is<BR>
able to make independent rulings. A mujtahid is effectively the highest<BR>
"rank", but it's not really analagous to anything in a Christian religious<BR>
hierarchy. The mujtahid "ranks" are very informal.<BR>
<BR>
Fortunately, for your purposes at least, not everyone who sets out to become<BR>
a mujtahid becomes a mujtahid. A student must study for at least about<BR>
fifteen years or so, and then gain the support of other clerics and<BR>
laypeople. Those who leave their studies after the first segment may become<BR>
village mullahs (preachers), prayer leaders, or something similar. Those who<BR>
leave their studies after the second segment may become mullahs in towns or<BR>
cities. Those who stay in the madraseh (sort of like a seminary) and<BR>
complete the third segment acquire the title hojjatoleslam and are eligible<BR>
to become mujtahid. A mujtahid with a large enough body of followers may be<BR>
given the title ayatollah. An ayatollah with massive influence may be given<BR>
the title of ayatollah ol ozma, (grand ayatollah). Ayatollah Khomeini was an<BR>
ayatollah ol ozma. Some Shiites even believed that he was the revealed Imam.<BR>
<BR>
Now, I may have made some errors, but it's really difficult to pin a<BR>
hierarchy down for any specific sect of Islam, as the religion is very<BR>
decentralized. Sometimes people compare the Shiite ayatollah "ranks" with<BR>
the high level ranks of Roman Catholicism, but it doesn't really fit as the<BR>
landscape is a little different.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure that you can see some of the difficulties here. In Sunni Islam, an<BR>
Imam is about the level of a village mullah in Shiite Islam, while in Shiite<BR>
Islam the level of Imam is unattainable.<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind I've only mentioned two sects and there are many, many more.<BR>
<BR>
Good luck trying to come up with a hierarchy for your purposes. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:36:32 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote :<BR>
> > BTW, your reason above is why I always write in Java these<BR>
> > days, if I've got the choice.<BR>
> > No need to learn a new language, no need to port.<BR>
> > <grin><BR>
><BR>
> Unfortunately, Java runs equally slowly on all platforms.<BR>
<BR>
One could say the same about C++, C, Delphi, JADE, or assembly language and<BR>
it would be equally true.<BR>
<BR>
As with these languages, only badly written Java applications run slowly<BR>
<BR>
As Java is being used to program sub-micro-second response time embedded<BR>
controllers (as it was originally designed to do) it is not the language<BR>
that is slow, merely your particular implementation.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:40:19 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: hairy ticks and bars<BR>
<BR>
<snip own comment><BR>
<BR>
> Well it did back in the ancient times, prior the horrific <BR>
> Chance fire in <BR>
> Poughkeepsie.<BR>
> P&G's (or as we fondly called it, "Pigs") is probably still <BR>
> open.  Last <BR>
> time I was there, the punk club had turned into a fern bar <BR>
<BR>
Fern Bar? Is that slang I'm not familiar with or...<BR>
<BR>
Ob-Trav: In Startown the PCs walk into an Ahetaowa bar... <BR>
<BR>
> and the tie-dye <BR>
> shop on Main Street had closed...When NYS raised the drinking <BR>
> age from 18 <BR>
> to 19 (and then 21 a year later), it really cut into the <BR>
> revenue flow for <BR>
> the Main Street pubs.<BR>
<BR>
A good reason that I stayed away from New York in my younger days...Imagine<BR>
going on holiday and not being able to get a beer (even an American beer, no<BR>
offence :))<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I have to admit I moved from New York State back when Mario Cumo was <BR>
> Governor of New York City, and went to the high tech <BR>
> playground of Mike <BR>
> Dukasis'  Massachusetts.  Some folks may find this hard to <BR>
> believe, my <BR>
> taxes actually went down because of that move.  This was <BR>
> before both of <BR>
> them bankrupted their respective states through excessive <BR>
> taxation and <BR>
> spending like an Imperial Navy rating set loose in Startown <BR>
> after a long <BR>
> deep space tour (ok, there is my long stretch for an obtrav).<BR>
<BR>
Bravo :)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh ya, BOC did play in Poughkeepsie, at the Chance, before <BR>
> the fire, under <BR>
> the 'small club name.'  I still have my ticket for Soft White <BR>
> Underbelly.<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> ---------------<BR>
> urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
> Exigis Domus Hillaria - http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> ---------------<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3066<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3067</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/19/00 3:34:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 19 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3067<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
RE: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
RE: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
RE: World Map<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
RE: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Alternate Imperiums<BR>
Re: World Map<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
RE: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Empress Wave<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
RE: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:54:17 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> > Wow, someone knows Jade.<BR>
> > Of course coming from Christchurch, it's more likely that you would than<BR>
> > someone from elsewhere. (Jade is something else I teach, BTW,<BR>
> > our company are the official training partners for Jade Corp)<BR>
><BR>
> Funny how Chch Poly pushes Jade and has Jade Corp and Aoraki as a<BR>
> major supporters :*><BR>
<BR>
The two universities ( Canterbury & Lincoln ) are similar.<BR>
<BR>
> I actually quite like Jade, it really forces  you to use<BR>
> good programming practice and its datebase functions are particularly<BR>
> strong.<BR>
<BR>
I agree, it's great for teaching OO as well.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is it's licensing model.<BR>
It's a Visual Basic/Delphi-like product with a SAP-like price.<BR>
<BR>
> > BTW, your reason above is why I always write in Java these<BR>
> > days, if I've got the choice.<BR>
><BR>
> But I didn't actually get a choice for this app. The assignment<BR>
> said "thou shall write in Delphi".<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, I know.<BR>
<BR>
Don't worry though, one day I'll write a Java version for you, that stores<BR>
all the data in XML and carries out all the combat for you in a 3D<BR>
holo-tank. Probaably shortly after I win Lotto and quit working...<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:58:40 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> At 12:50 -0400 17/9/00, "Nick Bradbeer" <BR>
> <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> > > I thought you came from the South-West and that you had cream teas<BR>
> > > and scones with jam, honey and clotted cream, polished <BR>
> with fudge all<BR>
> > > the time?<BR>
> >I do, and we do.<BR>
> >I guess that's why I'm so overweight. <g><BR>
> <BR>
> <g><BR>
> <BR>
> I thought that it was in the rules that you had to be overweight and<BR>
> bearded to play Traveller <g,d,r>?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BLACK GLOBE = ON><BR>
> <JUMP DRIVE = ON><BR>
> <BR>
> Dom :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> PS You'll all see how true this is of Nick when I post the GenCon<BR>
> Pictures for BITS next week.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Oh, I thought just the beard was obligatory. Darnit, I'm even further away<BR>
from the ideal!<BR>
<runs away and cries> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:08:44 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
<BR>
No Tsyko dear, it's not that he's physically unable, he's admin staff and<BR>
ain't allowed an opinion (I nearly sent this email myself, but then I<BR>
puzzled it out).<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Tsykoduk [mailto:Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com]<BR>
> Sent: 19 September 2000 04:30<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Hmmm.. amazing lack of posting ability ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of fadetozero<BR>
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 12:21 PM<BR>
> To: traveller-digest@mpgn.com<BR>
> Subject: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> it's really too bad i'm not able to post to the TML, as i <BR>
> have answers for<BR>
> everything (or, i'm really opinionated.  i haven't decided, <BR>
> altho friends<BR>
> suggest the latter interpretation...)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:14:46 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: World Map<BR>
<BR>
Too much Pseudo-port and red meat-floavoured mycoprotein?<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks.  I am.  It's just Psuedo-Gout.<BR>
> Not gout but just like it.<BR>
> <BR>
> bloo<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I hope you're feeling better.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:27:07 GMT<BR>
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
I can't hold it in any longer; since the British Government decreed that <BR>
alcopops were bad for the nations 'yoof' and more-or-less regulated them out <BR>
of kiddies pocketmoney range, a new breed of 'energy drink' has arisen.  <BR>
Blessed with such delightful names as 'Red Bull' and 'Blue Charge' (just two <BR>
of many!), these drinks are basically caffeinated sugar-water.  But many <BR>
also contain Taurine, a substance catfood manufacturers add to aid your <BR>
cats' eyesight...  It just struck me as funny that you could also read it as <BR>
"Ta - urine"...<BR>
Strangely enough, they do seem to be a rather vile yellow colour...<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  (You *really* think I should?  Okay then...)  Just what *was* that <BR>
ceremonial drink the natives just gave you...<BR>
<BR>
<<SNIP>><BR>
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:11:31 +0100<BR>
>From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Thoughts on the UK today and Hard Times<BR>
><BR>
>At 1:37 -0400 18/9/00, "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> wrote:<BR>
> > > From: SD Mooney<BR>
> > > Hint - Fosters is lager, not bitter. Or at least it is in the UK.<BR>
> >Oops!<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Well, it's cat urine, anyway.<BR>
><BR>
>Yup. Best served very cold and with a hot and strong curry so you<BR>
>can't taste it.<BR>
><BR>
>Dom<BR>
<</SNIP><BR>
<BR>
As to curry, what was the story I heard about that?  Oh yeah, that the <BR>
British soldiers in Imperial India curried the meat to hide the rotten <BR>
bits... :(  - I *hate* curry!<BR>
<BR>
Jeff (aka Captain [Kentucky-Fried] Chicken, Leg-End in his own Party <BR>
Bucket).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 01:03:03 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> One could say the same about C++, C, Delphi, JADE, or assembly<BR>
> language and<BR>
> it would be equally true.<BR>
><BR>
> As with these languages, only badly written Java applications run slowly<BR>
><BR>
> As Java is being used to program sub-micro-second response time embedded<BR>
> controllers (as it was originally designed to do) it is not the language<BR>
> that is slow, merely your particular implementation.<BR>
<BR>
Your Java bytecodes actually run on a JVM of some sort. So unless you are<BR>
doing really good JIT compiling, the VM gives you a big performance hit,<BR>
although I don't think that we're talking about big multiples here. Even<BR>
with good JIT compiling, the best you can do is approach the performance of<BR>
languages like C. The VM is allowed to be hardware, or course, like the<BR>
PicoJava processor and its relatives. I've never met anyone who has used<BR>
these processors, so I can't say anything meaningful about their<BR>
performance.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, the architecture of the JVM is quite limited, and I doubt<BR>
that it can ever match the performance of super-scalar, super-pipelined<BR>
architectures like we have today, even if you are implementing it in<BR>
hardware, like the PicoJava processor.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure that speed is really an issue today. Back in 1989 or so I was<BR>
doing work on a Cray Y-MP 8/32, which cost about $20 million. A few weeks<BR>
back I was visiting Exodus in San Jose, and I was amazed at how much<BR>
computing power was there. Even moderate-sized web sites have more power<BR>
than that Y-MP had, and they cost waaaaay less than $20 million now. An<BR>
amazing number of sites were running Starfire 10000s. It's amazing that the<BR>
computing power which used to be needed for things like designing nuclear<BR>
weapons or predicting weather is now used for web sites.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 05:00:02 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com<BR>
Subject: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
Matt Bond :<BR>
<BR>
>To my mind the Empress Wave is just a thrown in 'Plot Device' that<BR>
>completely screws with CT Canon, and is a souped up version of the<BR>
>hinted at Primordials (a.k.a 'Baddies from the core') from DGP's MT<BR>
>products, with knobs on!<BR>
><BR>
>As you can tell, I very much dislike the concept...<BR>
<BR>
There are supposed to be some big events looming in the GURPS<BR>
Traveller continuum too, and I have read references to Project<BR>
Longbow in GURPS sources, so perhaps the Empress Wave and<BR>
associated ideas will surface in that too.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps the best way to introduce campaign-shattering events<BR>
would be to provide them as alternate timeline sourcebooks. If<BR>
the Rebellion era had been presented as an alternate timeline<BR>
sourcebook I can't see anyone complaining about it. The same<BR>
goes for the Virus. Similarly providing the 'Empress Wave'/'Invasion<BR>
from the Core' material provided as an alternate timeline would<BR>
be very cool. I'd be interested in seeing other ideas presented in<BR>
this way too.<BR>
<BR>
'Dark Imperium' - Alternate Traveller history. What if the Imperial<BR>
succession was usurped by Solomani supremicists in 1000? In 1116 it's<BR>
an oppressive state which denies citizenship to non-humans and<BR>
shows favouritism to non-Solomani. The takeover was slow and<BR>
insidious, aided by a sinister secret police organisation. It's the<BR>
Imperium, but not as we know it. Alternatively known as the<BR>
'Babylon 5' option as the imperium we know and love is subverted<BR>
from the inside out.<BR>
<BR>
'Alien Bloodbath' - Full scale war breaks out between the Hivers and<BR>
the K'Kree. Amazingly the K'Kree are winning, but casualties on both<BR>
sides are massive. Huge waves of refugees flee into surrounding space,<BR>
including the Imperial and Solomani spheres. Many Hiver sympathisers<BR>
form volunteer regiments to help defend the federation core worlds<BR>
before they are obliterated.<BR>
<BR>
Any other ideas?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Simon Hibbs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 02:02:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: World Map<BR>
<BR>
Brings to mind that old Douglas Adams' line about being "almost, but<BR>
not completely, unlike tea."<BR>
<BR>
Be well.  <BR>
<BR>
- --- Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:<BR>
> Thanks.  I am.  It's just Psuedo-Gout.<BR>
> Not gout but just like it.<BR>
> <BR>
> bloo<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I hope you're feeling better.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
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**********************************************************************************************<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:35:20 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
> Matt Bond :<BR>
> <BR>
> >To my mind the Empress Wave is just a thrown in 'Plot Device' that<BR>
> >completely screws with CT Canon, and is a souped up version of the<BR>
> >hinted at Primordials (a.k.a 'Baddies from the core') from DGP's MT<BR>
> >products, with knobs on!<BR>
> ><BR>
> >As you can tell, I very much dislike the concept...<BR>
> <BR>
> There are supposed to be some big events looming in the GURPS<BR>
> Traveller continuum too, and I have read references to Project<BR>
> Longbow in GURPS sources, so perhaps the Empress Wave and<BR>
> associated ideas will surface in that too.<BR>
> <BR>
> Perhaps the best way to introduce campaign-shattering events<BR>
> would be to provide them as alternate timeline sourcebooks. If<BR>
> the Rebellion era had been presented as an alternate timeline<BR>
> sourcebook I can't see anyone complaining about it. The same<BR>
> goes for the Virus. Similarly providing the 'Empress Wave'/'Invasion<BR>
> from the Core' material provided as an alternate timeline would<BR>
> be very cool. I'd be interested in seeing other ideas presented in<BR>
> this way too.<BR>
> <BR>
> 'Dark Imperium' - Alternate Traveller history. What if the Imperial<BR>
> succession was usurped by Solomani supremicists in 1000? In 1116 it's<BR>
> an oppressive state which denies citizenship to non-humans and<BR>
> shows favouritism to non-Solomani. The takeover was slow and<BR>
> insidious, aided by a sinister secret police organisation. It's the<BR>
> Imperium, but not as we know it. Alternatively known as the<BR>
> 'Babylon 5' option as the imperium we know and love is subverted<BR>
> from the inside out.<BR>
<BR>
But not THAT much favouritism...they're humans corrupted by insidious Alien<BR>
influences. The players could be heroic, square-jawed SolSec agents<BR>
defending humanity against scheming horrors from beyond the stars :)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> 'Alien Bloodbath' - Full scale war breaks out between the Hivers and<BR>
> the K'Kree. Amazingly the K'Kree are winning, but casualties on both<BR>
> sides are massive. Huge waves of refugees flee into surrounding space,<BR>
> including the Imperial and Solomani spheres. Many Hiver sympathisers<BR>
> form volunteer regiments to help defend the federation core worlds<BR>
> before they are obliterated.<BR>
<BR>
Not that surprising, surely? I found the fact that the pacifist Hivers won<BR>
the war in the 'real' world surprising.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Any other ideas?<BR>
<BR>
Timewarped Imperium: An experimental J-7 drive (someone was bound to try,<BR>
and I don't care if J-6 is the theroetical max, it's an alternate universe)<BR>
causes space/time to fold in on itself and fracture. Split known space up as<BR>
you want and apply the backgrounds from all the differant Mileux (including<BR>
the T5 sourcebooks when they come out) and maybe even G:T. If you've got<BR>
some of the other Gurps Sci-Fi backgrounds, chuck those in as well. Space<BR>
Opera can be hand-waved because the laws of physics have gone awry following<BR>
THE INCIDENT. Idea stolen from Ken Hite, heavily modified by me.<BR>
<BR>
2000 Carnivore worlds: The G'naak won and ate all the K'kree. Now they want<BR>
more food....<BR>
<BR>
Traveller 1889: Ha ha ha.<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:50:33 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Bloo [mailto:stevedaniels@portcaddo.com]<BR>
> Sent: 18 September 2000 22:45<BR>
> To: TML<BR>
> Subject: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> It might sound OT, but its for a Trav. related project<BR>
> and my web searches are coming up blank.<BR>
> <BR>
> I've proposed Clergy as a class for Traveller in the past,<BR>
> complete with ranks, but this was based only on the<BR>
> Christian/Catholic tradition.<BR>
> http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/impchrch.htm<BR>
> <BR>
> Does anyone know where I might find, or can anyone<BR>
> tell me, what might be appropriate ranks for other<BR>
> faiths, particularly Islam, but also anything else.  At least<BR>
> for those religions that have some heirarchy.<BR>
> <BR>
 For a bit of a twisted religious hierachy, I recommend having a planetary<BR>
government thats a Discordian Theocracy. <BR>
Here's the layout for POEE:<BR>
<BR>
POEE DISORGANIZATIONAL MATRIX<BR>
V) The House of Apostle of ERIS For the Eristocracy and the Cabalablia <BR>
A. The Five Apostles of ERIS <BR>
B. The Golden Apple Corps (KSC) <BR>
C. Episkoposes of The Discordian Society <BR>
D. POEE Cabal Priests <BR>
E. Saints, Erisian Avatars, and Like Personages <BR>
IV) The House of the Rising Podge for the Disciples of Discordia <BR>
A. Office of My High Reverence, The Polyfather <BR>
B. Council of POEE Priests <BR>
C. The LEGION OF DYNAMIC DISCORD <BR>
D. Eristic Avatars <BR>
E. Aneristic Avatars <BR>
III) The House of the Rising Hodge For the Bureaucracy <BR>
A. The Bureau of Erisian Archives <BR>
B. The Bureau of The POEE Epistolary, and The Division of Dogmas <BR>
C. The Bureau of Symbols, Emblems, Certificates and Such <BR>
D. The Bureau of Eristic Affairs, and The Administry for The Unenlightened<BR>
Eristic Horde <BR>
E. The Bureau of Aneristic Affairs, and the Administry for the Orders of<BR>
Discordia <BR>
II) The House of the Rising Collapse For the Encouragement of Liberation of<BR>
Freedom, and/or the Discouragement of the Immanentizing of the Eschaton <BR>
A. The Breeze of Wisdom and/or The Wind of Insanity <BR>
B. The Breeze of Integrity and/or The Wind of Arrogance <BR>
C. The Breeze of Beauty and/or The Wind of Outrages <BR>
D. The Breeze of Love and/or The Wind of Bombast <BR>
E. The Breeze of Laughter and/or The Wind of Bullshit <BR>
I) The Out House For what is left over <BR>
A. Miscellaneous Avatars <BR>
B. The Fifth Column <BR>
C. POEE =POPES= everywhere <BR>
D. Drawer "O" for OUT OF FILE <BR>
E. Lost Documents and Forgotten Truths <BR>
<BR>
You can find an online copy of the Principia Discordia at<BR>
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/body.html , but it doesn't have the<BR>
amusing artwork of the original.<BR>
<BR>
Important Ranks(in no particular order):<BR>
Popes<BR>
Episkaposes<BR>
Everyone else (see popes)<BR>
Whatever you can think of<BR>
Whatever you can't think of<BR>
The Late Kerry Thornley. Big respect.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:14:59 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
A few things we know about the Empress Wave:<BR>
<BR>
It is not "baddies from the core (Primordials or Sparklers)."  Regency<BR>
Sourcebook, page 85 makes that abundantly clear - which is good,<BR>
because after re-reading DGP's write-up in MTJ4 I wouldn't like that<BR>
story line one iota.<BR>
<BR>
It is a psionic phenomenon propagating at the speed of light.  It was<BR>
first noted by the Imperium in 1119*.  It is expected to first<BR>
encounter Imperial space in 1205 at "Meridian 78" - a point 78 parsecs<BR>
from Reference (Core 0140) along a line running through Reference to<BR>
the Core - or the coreward border of Subsector A of Lishun Sector. <BR>
This means that the Imperium first noted the phenomenon when it was a<BR>
little more than 26 parsecs from its border, or about two-thirds of the<BR>
way through the Zhodani Consulate.  For a people as secretive (at least<BR>
to the Imperium) as the Zhodani, this may not be so far fetched - would<BR>
you tell your enemy you were having problems at home?<BR>
<BR>
The Wave has caused civil war in the Zhodani Consulate, and<BR>
"intimations of doom" in Zhodani refugees.  It caused each Longbow<BR>
station it contacted to go off the air - except the one Strephon was<BR>
visiting.  <BR>
<BR>
Avery Alledon was dispatched in 1149 with a handful of gifted psionics<BR>
(artificial and natural) along with domesticated strains of Virus, to<BR>
discover what the Wave might be.  He hasn't been heard from since.<BR>
<BR>
Zhodani Core Expeditions:  The first was in -4000 and the last in 750<BR>
(or 455 years before the Wave reaches Imperial Space).  A hasty Core<BR>
Expedition in 1149 failed.<BR>
<BR>
The Wave creates a mental image in psionics of a woman holding a staff<BR>
standing on a plane under two moons - the image on the left side of the<BR>
TNE cover.<BR>
<BR>
*Strephon was visiting the Longbow collection station (Depot/Lishun)<BR>
studying the Empress Wave when his double was killed in 1116, meaning<BR>
that the Imperium knew about the Empress Wave for quite a while before<BR>
Norris' crew in the Spinward Marches learned of it.  Now we know why<BR>
the Imperium collapsed.<BR>
<BR>
Now, using the old Mediterranean parallel, the Empress Wave could<BR>
represent the Traveller equivalent of the rise of Islam - if you take<BR>
the Zhodani to represent the Persian Empire extant at the time of the<BR>
Roman Empire.  This would mean that many Zhodani are "converting" and<BR>
will be a pain in the back side to the Regency (which could represent<BR>
Byzantium) for centuries to come.  For all you budding future<BR>
historians out there, there would be Traveller equivalents of that<BR>
famous Byzantine general (whose name escapes me) who managed to beat<BR>
back the Moslem hordes time and again; the Crusades; and, last, but not<BR>
least, the Battle of Lepanto.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, your mileage may vary.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:21:01 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
Don't knock Traveller 1889, fella.  That's what I'm working on.<BR>
<BR>
Might I also recommend a Traveller/Dark Conspiracy crossover.  You see,<BR>
jumpspace is actually a series of proto-dimensions, and the folks there<BR>
are getting tired of starships barging through, upsetting the order of<BR>
things.  Time to get even ...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Matt Bond :<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >To my mind the Empress Wave is just a thrown in 'Plot Device' that<BR>
> > >completely screws with CT Canon, and is a souped up version of the<BR>
> > >hinted at Primordials (a.k.a 'Baddies from the core') from DGP's<BR>
> MT<BR>
> > >products, with knobs on!<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >As you can tell, I very much dislike the concept...<BR>
> > <BR>
> > There are supposed to be some big events looming in the GURPS<BR>
> > Traveller continuum too, and I have read references to Project<BR>
> > Longbow in GURPS sources, so perhaps the Empress Wave and<BR>
> > associated ideas will surface in that too.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Perhaps the best way to introduce campaign-shattering events<BR>
> > would be to provide them as alternate timeline sourcebooks. If<BR>
> > the Rebellion era had been presented as an alternate timeline<BR>
> > sourcebook I can't see anyone complaining about it. The same<BR>
> > goes for the Virus. Similarly providing the 'Empress<BR>
> Wave'/'Invasion<BR>
> > from the Core' material provided as an alternate timeline would<BR>
> > be very cool. I'd be interested in seeing other ideas presented in<BR>
> > this way too.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > 'Dark Imperium' - Alternate Traveller history. What if the Imperial<BR>
> > succession was usurped by Solomani supremicists in 1000? In 1116<BR>
> it's<BR>
> > an oppressive state which denies citizenship to non-humans and<BR>
> > shows favouritism to non-Solomani. The takeover was slow and<BR>
> > insidious, aided by a sinister secret police organisation. It's the<BR>
> > Imperium, but not as we know it. Alternatively known as the<BR>
> > 'Babylon 5' option as the imperium we know and love is subverted<BR>
> > from the inside out.<BR>
> <BR>
> But not THAT much favouritism...they're humans corrupted by insidious<BR>
> Alien<BR>
> influences. The players could be heroic, square-jawed SolSec agents<BR>
> defending humanity against scheming horrors from beyond the stars :)<BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > 'Alien Bloodbath' - Full scale war breaks out between the Hivers<BR>
> and<BR>
> > the K'Kree. Amazingly the K'Kree are winning, but casualties on<BR>
> both<BR>
> > sides are massive. Huge waves of refugees flee into surrounding<BR>
> space,<BR>
> > including the Imperial and Solomani spheres. Many Hiver<BR>
> sympathisers<BR>
> > form volunteer regiments to help defend the federation core worlds<BR>
> > before they are obliterated.<BR>
> <BR>
> Not that surprising, surely? I found the fact that the pacifist<BR>
> Hivers won<BR>
> the war in the 'real' world surprising.<BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Any other ideas?<BR>
> <BR>
> Timewarped Imperium: An experimental J-7 drive (someone was bound to<BR>
> try,<BR>
> and I don't care if J-6 is the theroetical max, it's an alternate<BR>
> universe)<BR>
> causes space/time to fold in on itself and fracture. Split known<BR>
> space up as<BR>
> you want and apply the backgrounds from all the differant Mileux<BR>
> (including<BR>
> the T5 sourcebooks when they come out) and maybe even G:T. If you've<BR>
> got<BR>
> some of the other Gurps Sci-Fi backgrounds, chuck those in as well.<BR>
> Space<BR>
> Opera can be hand-waved because the laws of physics have gone awry<BR>
> following<BR>
> THE INCIDENT. Idea stolen from Ken Hite, heavily modified by me.<BR>
> <BR>
> 2000 Carnivore worlds: The G'naak won and ate all the K'kree. Now<BR>
> they want<BR>
> more food....<BR>
> <BR>
> Traveller 1889: Ha ha ha.<BR>
> <BR>
> Dean<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:21:55 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
Gerry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> <BR>
> Avery Alledon was dispatched in 1149 with a handful of gifted psionics<BR>
> (artificial and natural) along with domesticated strains of Virus, to<BR>
> discover what the Wave might be.  He hasn't been heard from since.<BR>
<BR>
Artificial? Havn't heard of that. Got any details on that process?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:29:22 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com <simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com><BR>
<BR>
>'Dark Imperium' - Alternate Traveller history. What if the Imperial<BR>
>succession was usurped by Solomani supremicists in 1000? In 1116 it's<BR>
>an oppressive state which denies citizenship to non-humans and<BR>
>shows favouritism to non-Solomani. The takeover was slow and<BR>
>insidious, aided by a sinister secret police organisation. It's the<BR>
>Imperium, but not as we know it. Alternatively known as the<BR>
>'Babylon 5' option as the imperium we know and love is subverted<BR>
>from the inside out.<BR>
><BR>
>'Alien Bloodbath' - Full scale war breaks out between the Hivers and<BR>
>the K'Kree. Amazingly the K'Kree are winning, but casualties on both<BR>
>sides are massive. Huge waves of refugees flee into surrounding space,<BR>
>including the Imperial and Solomani spheres. Many Hiver sympathisers<BR>
>form volunteer regiments to help defend the federation core worlds<BR>
>before they are obliterated.<BR>
><BR>
>Any other ideas?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I have a few, I have used in the past.<BR>
<BR>
    1) "The Psionic Empire" - In 800 the 3I suppressed Psionics, but what if<BR>
instead of suppressing them, the Imperium supported them?  The 3I is almost<BR>
totally made up of Psionics & the Zhodani never had a chance.  Zhodani Spies<BR>
were caught by loyal 3I Psionics & instead of the five Frontier Wars, there<BR>
was only one, in which the Zhodani lost totaly & now the worlds of the<BR>
Zhodani Counselate are now part of the 3I & have been for 400 years.<BR>
<BR>
    2) "K'Kree on the Grill" - In the many Hiver/K'Kree Wars neither side<BR>
could win because they were equal.  But, what if the Hiver's we able to win<BR>
an overwhelming victory & are now farming the K'Kree as an export to the<BR>
human worlds?  On almost every Human & Aslan world their is at least one<BR>
"Happy Hiver" resturant.  There they serve the best in K'Kree meat, until a<BR>
group of humans find out that they are eating a Sentient Being.<BR>
<BR>
    3) "The Seventh Race" - While it is said that no other major races have<BR>
been found & that their are only six, what if they didn't go far enough?<BR>
What if this seventh race combined the shape of the humans, the mental<BR>
powers of the Zhodani, the Warrior Code of the Aslan, the Fanatic Urge of<BR>
the K'Kree & were heading for the "Known Universe" of Traveller, hell bent<BR>
for leather to invade & take over?  The worst part is that they are at TL-20<BR>
& the "Known Universe" is at TL-15.<BR>
<BR>
    4) "Settlers from Beyond" - A variant of the above.  What if this new<BR>
Seventh Race had torn themselves apart by Civil War & a Mass of refuges from<BR>
this war was heading towards "Known Space"?  They are still at TL-20, &<BR>
"Known Space" is still at TL-15, but they are willing to help which ever<BR>
government raise to TL-17 or TL-18, but in exchange for a full sector all<BR>
their own.  Which nation will take them up on it?<BR>
<BR>
    5) "They are Here" - A variant of number 4 & the one my current game is<BR>
based upon.  Using JG's Ley Sector a Group of Refuges sneaked across Zhodani<BR>
& Imperium Space & colonized 4 systems, not worlds, but systems in the Ley<BR>
Sector.  And, they have started to trade with the local Pocket Empires in<BR>
the area & are slowly raising their TL to equal that of the 3I.  The 3I, the<BR>
K'Kree, the Solomani Confederation, & the Hivers all lose their Client<BR>
States in the area to this new race & soon find themselves at the "mercy" of<BR>
a large, organized, powerful, & friendly state that takes up 4 sectors.  The<BR>
state is not bound by conquest, threats, or fear, instead they are bound<BR>
together by the simple fact that any planet can contact anyother planet with<BR>
FTL Communications within an hour (basicly this frees up Scouts & X-Boats as<BR>
well as making specultive trading so much easier.  Ie, if you know that<BR>
Planet A needs Iron, & you are on Planet B & it has a glut of Iron, you will<BR>
fill your hold with Iron) as well as trade.  And, the 3I, the SC, the<BR>
Hivers, & the K'Kree all send in teams of agents to find out what is going<BR>
on.  But,these agents are found & turned.  When this new nation finds out<BR>
what the other nations are doing, they attack & sterialize all worlds within<BR>
9 Parsecs/9 Jumps of their borders, as well as mining all Gas Giants on<BR>
systems within this area.  They also set up unmanned outposts to watch for<BR>
any intrustion.<BR>
    Now, the 3I, the Solomani Confederation, the Hiver's, & the K'Kree are<BR>
approached by a represenative of this new nation with with an offer, "Ally<BR>
with us & we will help you take over all of your enemies, for a share in the<BR>
spoils & the promise that we will be left alone by you & will have your<BR>
support against your enemies."  And, they give each nation a gift a complete<BR>
Database of technology upto TL-17.  Then they open one route through the<BR>
"Deadlands" they created so that only Free Traders can come in & trade with<BR>
them, & that their Free Traders can trade with you.<BR>
    Right now, I have two parties playing in this universe, one from the<BR>
"Known Universe", made up of 2 Solomani Humans, 1 Vilani Human, 1 Imperial<BR>
Zhodani Human, 1 Imperial Vargr, & 1 Imperial Aslan on the Far Trader the<BR>
"Ida May" who are trading with this new & unnamed nation.  The second party<BR>
are from the Eldar Confederation, the new & unnamed nation btw, made up of 3<BR>
Eldar, 1 Squat, & 2 EC Humans on the Gestalt Patrol Cruiser the "Rapier"<BR>
(just one of the Eldar is on this) & the EC Free Trader "The Royal Flush"<BR>
trading within the Solomani Confederation & the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3067<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 19 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3068<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
RE: Empress Wave<BR>
RE: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
G-M50 Kanone Grav Assault Gun<BR>
Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
RE: G-M50 Kanone Grav Assault Gun<BR>
RE: Empress Wave<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
Re: World Map<BR>
Belief systems...<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
Re: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
Re: TNE Canon?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:32:30 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Don't knock Traveller 1889, fella.  That's what I'm working on.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I wan't knocking it...I had an image in my head of a Victorian 'Scientific<BR>
Boxer', complete with curly handlebar mustache, squaring up to an Aslan with<BR>
his dewclaws out...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:40:38 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
On 18 Sep 2000, at 21:07, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > On 18 Sep 2000, at 16:38, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >> I bet he *really* got laid into by whoever was in charge of your group<BR>
> >> when they found out. <BR>
> ><BR>
> > The Powers That Be never did - it was dealt with 'in house' as it were.<BR>
> <BR>
> I was thinking of the non-com in charge, not the officers (*Never*<BR>
> worry officers with info they don't need to know :-)<BR>
<BR>
In basic we were all of the firm opinion that none of the instuctors, be they <BR>
NCO or Officer, needed to know such things. Our barracks were divided up into <BR>
10-man rooms, one section per room. We made sure the NCOs were all away, shut <BR>
the door and had a little 'talk' with the guy.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:14:29 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
As soon as I read about the Empress Wave I dropped. It did not require <BR>
you to suspend disbelief (as the Virus did), it required you to climb to the <BR>
top of a very tall building and throw it bodily out the window. Just some <BR>
problems:<BR>
<BR>
1 - A phenomenon travelling at the speed of light would have been <BR>
detectable at the Lishun depot precisely at the moment when it reached it, <BR>
not a moment before.<BR>
<BR>
2 - For a phenomenon travelling at the speed of light to be approximately <BR>
86 light years away from the Imperium in 1119, it would have had to <BR>
entered the Zhodani Consulate in in approximately 735. Therefore, by the <BR>
time the Zhodani opened the 3rd Frontier War (979), the Wave had effected <BR>
roughly 60% of the Consulate<BR>
<BR>
3 - If the Empress Wave cause Zhodani society to unravel, then by 1100 <BR>
roughly 90% of the Consulate has been effected. Yet apparently, the <BR>
Imperium remained blissfully unaware of this and the Zhodani (with their <BR>
society collapsing around their ears) felt confident enough to fight yet <BR>
another war with them.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:43:15 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance [mailto:a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz]<BR>
> Sent: 19 September 2000 12:14<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> As soon as I read about the Empress Wave I dropped. It did <BR>
> not require <BR>
> you to suspend disbelief (as the Virus did), it required you <BR>
> to climb to the <BR>
> top of a very tall building and throw it bodily out the <BR>
> window. Just some <BR>
> problems:<BR>
> <BR>
> 1 - A phenomenon travelling at the speed of light would have been <BR>
> detectable at the Lishun depot precisely at the moment when <BR>
> it reached it, <BR>
> not a moment before.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I think that the Psi 'impression' is slightly FTL, and the<BR>
following 'wave' of disturbance is slightly STL... but the whole idea is<BR>
still pants<BR>
<BR>
> 2 - For a phenomenon travelling at the speed of light to be <BR>
> approximately <BR>
> 86 light years away from the Imperium in 1119, it would have had to <BR>
> entered the Zhodani Consulate in in approximately 735. <BR>
> Therefore, by the <BR>
> time the Zhodani opened the 3rd Frontier War (979), the Wave <BR>
> had effected <BR>
> roughly 60% of the Consulate<BR>
<BR>
Yup<BR>
<BR>
> 3 - If the Empress Wave cause Zhodani society to unravel, <BR>
> then by 1100 <BR>
> roughly 90% of the Consulate has been effected. Yet apparently, the <BR>
> Imperium remained blissfully unaware of this and the Zhodani <BR>
> (with their <BR>
> society collapsing around their ears) felt confident enough <BR>
> to fight yet <BR>
> another war with them.<BR>
<BR>
I know, which is why it ain't happening IMTU. Too much conflict with CT<BR>
Canon.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:49:49 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2000 8:31 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Question (Imperial birthdays), Is Strephon Abdicating?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
> Loren wrote:<BR>
> >>>>[Me] So, I take it that you are going to follow the tradition<BR>
> introduced<BR>
> >>>>in the "Family d'Alembert" series and have Strephon abdicate<BR>
> in favour of<BR>
> >>>>Ciencia...<BR>
> >>><BR>
> >>>[Loren] y'see -- this is how rumors get started (smileys or no<BR>
> smileys).<BR>
> >>>Why does a question about birthdays mean that I am going to<BR>
> have Strephon<BR>
> >>>abdicate?<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>[Doug] Because we're a rabid bunch of fanboys (and girls) who delight in<BR>
> >>coming up with weird plot twists.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >[Loren] S'OK for you to say, but Im the one who will have to deal with 85<BR>
> >e-mails pleading with me to not have Strephon abdicate because<BR>
> it will upset<BR>
> >their campaigns, 4 who think it's a great idea, and 1 that wants<BR>
> to know if<BR>
> >he can abdicate in favor of a penguin.<BR>
><BR>
> <splort, cough, choke> If I had been drinking that would have<BR>
> been one keyboard<BR>
> kill to you, Loren. As it was, I _nearly_ had to do the "explain to work<BR>
> colleagues" routine...<BR>
><BR>
> As the instigator of the first question, I guess I have to say<BR>
> "ma'af, ma'af"<BR>
> ("sorry!") for pressing the "Whither Traveller?" button.<BR>
> Personally, whatever<BR>
> happens to the Big S (abdication/assassination/anything) is in<BR>
> the future for my<BR>
> campaign, so I wasn't _too_ concerned when I asked that question<BR>
> (it _really<BR>
> was_ just a dig. Worked, too! ;-). I mean, I really _like_ the<BR>
> guy - I've even<BR>
> PLAYED him at a convention!<BR>
><BR>
Say how about we have someone, an archduke perhaps, assassinate Strephon and<BR>
a civil war, oh sorry, just a bad dream.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:49:51 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: G-M50 Kanone Grav Assault Gun<BR>
<BR>
For those who are interested I have posted a few more MT designs to my site<BR>
including the Kanone G-M50. Built at TL13 the designs main punch is a<BR>
standard turret mounted 500Mw Fusion Gun built by BMR Corp (Boeing<BR>
Mitsubishi Rheinmetall) of Earth.<BR>
<BR>
Follow the Megatraveller links from www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:49:47 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Saw a special the other night about the Hindenberg disaster. According to<BR>
this it would have made no difference had the craft been using Helium<BR>
instead of Hydrogen as the lifting agent.<BR>
<BR>
Looks like what the cause was was a static discharge into the crafts outer<BR>
skin (the Hindenberg was attempting to dock between two thunder storms) the<BR>
outer skin ignited, some of the sections apparently not being earthed<BR>
properly, and spread rapidly, thus causing hydrogen cells to expand and then<BR>
burn.<BR>
<BR>
Apparently the skin of the Hindenberg used a brand new doping compound made<BR>
up of a mixture of Iron Oxide and Aluminium Oxide. (Not far different to the<BR>
fuel formula for the space shuttles solid rocket boosters) In other words<BR>
the hull was coated in rocket fuel! Woops!<BR>
<BR>
Possible analogies in Traveller. A crystal iron hull not manufactured<BR>
properly, decrystallising under stress. This would not make the crew very<BR>
happy.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:12:07 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: G-M50 Kanone Grav Assault Gun<BR>
<BR>
While I like this, and your design for the Annic Nova (although I haven't<BR>
seen the original source) I find dark blue text on a black background<BR>
difficult to read.<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Antony Farrell [mailto:Skaran@bigpond.com]<BR>
> Sent: 19 September 2000 12:50<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: G-M50 Kanone Grav Assault Gun<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> For those who are interested I have posted a few more MT <BR>
> designs to my site<BR>
> including the Kanone G-M50. Built at TL13 the designs main punch is a<BR>
> standard turret mounted 500Mw Fusion Gun built by BMR Corp (Boeing<BR>
> Mitsubishi Rheinmetall) of Earth.<BR>
> <BR>
> Follow the Megatraveller links from www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR>
> <BR>
> Antony<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:21:49 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Andrew<BR>
> Moffatt-Vallance<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2000 7:14 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> As soon as I read about the Empress Wave I dropped. It did not require<BR>
> you to suspend disbelief (as the Virus did), it required you to<BR>
> climb to the<BR>
> top of a very tall building and throw it bodily out the window. Just some<BR>
> problems:<BR>
><BR>
> 1 - A phenomenon travelling at the speed of light would have been<BR>
> detectable at the Lishun depot precisely at the moment when it<BR>
> reached it,<BR>
> not a moment before.<BR>
><BR>
> 2 - For a phenomenon travelling at the speed of light to be approximately<BR>
> 86 light years away from the Imperium in 1119, it would have had to<BR>
> entered the Zhodani Consulate in in approximately 735. Therefore, by the<BR>
> time the Zhodani opened the 3rd Frontier War (979), the Wave had effected<BR>
> roughly 60% of the Consulate<BR>
><BR>
> 3 - If the Empress Wave cause Zhodani society to unravel, then by 1100<BR>
> roughly 90% of the Consulate has been effected. Yet apparently, the<BR>
> Imperium remained blissfully unaware of this and the Zhodani (with their<BR>
> society collapsing around their ears) felt confident enough to fight yet<BR>
> another war with them.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
It is a well known law that in order to hide a domestic problem you get<BR>
involved in a major war and then blame all the troubles on the "enemy"<BR>
My interpretation of the Empress Wave was that what was detected was the<BR>
wave front which may have only accounted for a tiny portion of what was<BR>
coming behind it.<BR>
That being said I did not like it either.<BR>
I actually prefer the descendants of the Solomani Perseus Expedition ship<BR>
Kobol returning from there in a rag tag fleet pursued by a cybernetic race<BR>
called Cylon.(Its probable more believable too!)<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:21:47 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2000 6:33 PM<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>
> Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Don't knock Traveller 1889, fella.  That's what I'm working on.<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> I wan't knocking it...I had an image in my head of a Victorian 'Scientific<BR>
> Boxer', complete with curly handlebar mustache, squaring up to an<BR>
> Aslan with<BR>
> his dewclaws out...<BR>
<BR>
Well I have run a Traveller/Dark Conspiracy crossover set in 1908. Quite an<BR>
interesting historic period too.<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:43:47 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com [mailto:simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com]<BR>
> Sent: 19 September 2000 10:00<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Matt Bond :<BR>
> <BR>
> >To my mind the Empress Wave is just a thrown in 'Plot Device' that<BR>
> >completely screws with CT Canon, and is a souped up version of the<BR>
> >hinted at Primordials (a.k.a 'Baddies from the core') from DGP's MT<BR>
> >products, with knobs on!<BR>
> ><BR>
> >As you can tell, I very much dislike the concept...<BR>
> <BR>
> There are supposed to be some big events looming in the GURPS<BR>
> Traveller continuum too, and I have read references to Project<BR>
> Longbow in GURPS sources, so perhaps the Empress Wave and<BR>
> associated ideas will surface in that too.<BR>
> <BR>
> Perhaps the best way to introduce campaign-shattering events<BR>
> would be to provide them as alternate timeline sourcebooks. If<BR>
> the Rebellion era had been presented as an alternate timeline<BR>
> sourcebook I can't see anyone complaining about it. The same<BR>
> goes for the Virus. Similarly providing the 'Empress Wave'/'Invasion<BR>
> from the Core' material provided as an alternate timeline would<BR>
> be very cool. I'd be interested in seeing other ideas presented in<BR>
> this way too.<BR>
<BR>
<snip> <BR>
<BR>
> Any other ideas?<BR>
<BR>
At GenCon UK I briefly talked to Andy Lilly about an idea for an<BR>
alternate post rebellion setting.<BR>
<BR>
Basically, virus was never released, the Research station being<BR>
destroyed in the battle between Dulinor's Coronation Fleet and Lucans<BR>
defensive forces. Both Dulinor and Lucan fought themselves to a<BR>
standstill over the next few months, and their war ravaged economies<BR>
collapsed under the pressures of Hard Times, as did most of the other<BR>
Former Imperial Factions, Deneb excluded.<BR>
<BR>
Into the power vacuum step The Regency and the Solomani. Vargr raiders<BR>
still ravage Corridor, Vland, Lishun and Antares for a few years,<BR>
picking the flesh of the corpse of Hard Times, until there was little<BR>
left to do except settle. Aslan Ihatei cross into The Spinward and rim<BR>
ward parts of former Imperial territory in Verge and Ilelish (as<BR>
expansion into the Spinward Marches is blocked by the still strong<BR>
Regency, and ventures into Reavers Deep and Daibei are blocked by the<BR>
Solomani). The Regency establish relations with the remnants of<BR>
Strephon's stronghold in Corridor and Gushemege and send forces across<BR>
the rift using secret caches to help bolster the defences.<BR>
<BR>
The Solomani, after a few years Lull in their  campaigning against<BR>
Daibei, and Margaret, rebuild their Fleets using their still vast<BR>
industrial base and move out into the wilds of the Old Expanses, and<BR>
Diaspora.<BR>
<BR>
Zhodani aid against the Aslan and Vargr raiders helps swing public<BR>
opinion in the Regency in favour of the Zhodani. The Regency and the<BR>
Zhodani sign a treaty, allowing exchange of military observers, and the<BR>
relaxation of the psionic suppressions in the regency, and free travel<BR>
of each others citizens.<BR>
<BR>
After the death of Strephon a few years later, he bequeaths his Holdings<BR>
to the Regency, and from here they expand out into Dagudashaag.<BR>
<BR>
By the mid 1100's Solomani and Regency scouts encounter each other near<BR>
the Dagudashaag, Core, Zarushagaar, Massilia border and each settles<BR>
down into spheres of influence. Between then is a no-mans land of<BR>
Remnant Imperial Pocket Empires, Aslan Ihatei, Vargr settler and<BR>
traders, war-torn planets, cemetery worlds, and struggling bands of<BR>
survivors of Hard Times...<BR>
<BR>
There is much to do.<BR>
<BR>
Characters could be Regency, Zhodani Observers/Merchants, Vargr, Aslan,<BR>
Solomani, Former Imperial   Factions (now pocket empires) etc etc, with<BR>
most of the action set in Dagudashaag, Core, Zarushagaar, Massilia etc?<BR>
<BR>
I was toying with the idea of writing this up as a Variant Timeline and<BR>
seeing if BITS would be interested in releasing it as a LWB. I don't<BR>
know where Marc stands on Variant Timelines, or even if there would be<BR>
much interest in the idea, but it would be interesting to see what the<BR>
opinion is out there...<BR>
<BR>
If there is sufficient interest, I'll have a go at writing it up in more<BR>
detail, and if it can't be published officially, I'll stick it up on the<BR>
web.<BR>
<BR>
It would be nice to have a setting that doesn't take the sledgehammer<BR>
approach to ending the rebellion, but still has scope for frontiers and<BR>
restoring civilisation. Basically, only the Regency and the Solomani<BR>
have a sufficiently vast industrial base to be in the position to fill<BR>
the power vacuum of the old Imperium, and they would likely meet up in<BR>
the areas I suggest. Much of the rest of the backstory is there to<BR>
provide an excuse for a variety of interesting races to be involved, and<BR>
there is little other way for the Zhodani to be involved. As per usual<BR>
the Hivers and K'Kree are stuck out in limbo, but there is better<BR>
opportunity for them to have expanded into the trailing sectors of the<BR>
old Imperium...<BR>
<BR>
As I say, this was based on a quick idea espoused over a pint at GenCon<BR>
(just after I'd raised the idea of a D20 system variant of Traveller to<BR>
everyone's consternation <weg>), so will obviously need a lot more work<BR>
to make it into a polished setting, but if there is interest I will have<BR>
a go (Real Life permitting of course...)<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 05:58:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: World Map<BR>
<BR>
Just writing to make sure you received the map.  Email's been<BR>
persnickity lately.<BR>
<BR>
- --- Pat Connaughton <patconnaughton@earthlink.net> wrote:<BR>
> yes, please<BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
> To: GDW House Rules <gdwhouserules@onelist.com>; TML<BR>
> <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 2:36 PM<BR>
> Subject: World Map<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > I've ended up recreating the Traveller world map template (believe<BR>
> it<BR>
> > or not, for Space 1889 -- don't ask) in bitmap format.  If any of<BR>
> y'all<BR>
> > are interested, I'll be more than happy to send you a copy.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > =====<BR>
> > Gerry Harris<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
> ******************<BR>
> > ther Traveller - http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
> > Soldier's Companion -<BR>
><BR>
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
> ******************<BR>
> > "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" - Antony, "Julius<BR>
> Caesar," Act<BR>
> 3, Scene 1<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
> ******************<BR>
> ><BR>
> > __________________________________________________<BR>
> > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!<BR>
> > http://mail.yahoo.com/<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:37:09 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Belief systems...<BR>
<BR>
>> The CT Creed: There is no Game but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is<BR>
>its Product<BR>
...<BR>
>There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product.<BR>
<BR>
  <ahem>  And High Guard is from what "version" of Traveller, hmm?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:36:51 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
<BR>
Go for it!  I like it better than the blasted landscape left by Virus,<BR>
if only because it allows more "breathing room" (analogies fail me, but<BR>
Virus is a dark, twilight-of-the-gods kind of scenario, whereas a<BR>
shattered Imperium has a more open feel to it -- no border quarantines,<BR>
no "Black Curtain," etc.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I'm on-again-off-again working on a 3D version of Traveller.  I've<BR>
got a decent list of 8500 stars within 50 parsecs of Sol, including<BR>
their XYZ coordinates (there are so many stars within the Solomani Rim,<BR>
you'd think strategic movement would not be relegated to the 400-odd<BR>
named worlds).  Does anyone know if there are any sources for stars<BR>
farther away than 50 parsecs?  Notably, I wouldn't mind nuking-out the<BR>
Spinward Marches in 3D one of these days, but I only have info on one<BR>
star in that area - Deneb - and that's actually one sector over.<BR>
<BR>
- --- Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com [mailto:simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com]<BR>
> > Sent: 19 September 2000 10:00<BR>
> > To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> > Subject: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Matt Bond :<BR>
> > <BR>
> > >To my mind the Empress Wave is just a thrown in 'Plot Device' that<BR>
> > >completely screws with CT Canon, and is a souped up version of the<BR>
> > >hinted at Primordials (a.k.a 'Baddies from the core') from DGP's<BR>
> MT<BR>
> > >products, with knobs on!<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >As you can tell, I very much dislike the concept...<BR>
> > <BR>
> > There are supposed to be some big events looming in the GURPS<BR>
> > Traveller continuum too, and I have read references to Project<BR>
> > Longbow in GURPS sources, so perhaps the Empress Wave and<BR>
> > associated ideas will surface in that too.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Perhaps the best way to introduce campaign-shattering events<BR>
> > would be to provide them as alternate timeline sourcebooks. If<BR>
> > the Rebellion era had been presented as an alternate timeline<BR>
> > sourcebook I can't see anyone complaining about it. The same<BR>
> > goes for the Virus. Similarly providing the 'Empress<BR>
> Wave'/'Invasion<BR>
> > from the Core' material provided as an alternate timeline would<BR>
> > be very cool. I'd be interested in seeing other ideas presented in<BR>
> > this way too.<BR>
> <BR>
> <snip> <BR>
> <BR>
> > Any other ideas?<BR>
> <BR>
> At GenCon UK I briefly talked to Andy Lilly about an idea for an<BR>
> alternate post rebellion setting.<BR>
> <BR>
> Basically, virus was never released, the Research station being<BR>
> destroyed in the battle between Dulinor's Coronation Fleet and Lucans<BR>
> defensive forces. Both Dulinor and Lucan fought themselves to a<BR>
> standstill over the next few months, and their war ravaged economies<BR>
> collapsed under the pressures of Hard Times, as did most of the other<BR>
> Former Imperial Factions, Deneb excluded.<BR>
> <BR>
> Into the power vacuum step The Regency and the Solomani. Vargr<BR>
> raiders<BR>
> still ravage Corridor, Vland, Lishun and Antares for a few years,<BR>
> picking the flesh of the corpse of Hard Times, until there was little<BR>
> left to do except settle. Aslan Ihatei cross into The Spinward and<BR>
> rim<BR>
> ward parts of former Imperial territory in Verge and Ilelish (as<BR>
> expansion into the Spinward Marches is blocked by the still strong<BR>
> Regency, and ventures into Reavers Deep and Daibei are blocked by the<BR>
> Solomani). The Regency establish relations with the remnants of<BR>
> Strephon's stronghold in Corridor and Gushemege and send forces<BR>
> across<BR>
> the rift using secret caches to help bolster the defences.<BR>
> <BR>
> The Solomani, after a few years Lull in their  campaigning against<BR>
> Daibei, and Margaret, rebuild their Fleets using their still vast<BR>
> industrial base and move out into the wilds of the Old Expanses, and<BR>
> Diaspora.<BR>
> <BR>
> Zhodani aid against the Aslan and Vargr raiders helps swing public<BR>
> opinion in the Regency in favour of the Zhodani. The Regency and the<BR>
> Zhodani sign a treaty, allowing exchange of military observers, and<BR>
> the<BR>
> relaxation of the psionic suppressions in the regency, and free<BR>
> travel<BR>
> of each others citizens.<BR>
> <BR>
> After the death of Strephon a few years later, he bequeaths his<BR>
> Holdings<BR>
> to the Regency, and from here they expand out into Dagudashaag.<BR>
> <BR>
> By the mid 1100's Solomani and Regency scouts encounter each other<BR>
> near<BR>
> the Dagudashaag, Core, Zarushagaar, Massilia border and each settles<BR>
> down into spheres of influence. Between then is a no-mans land of<BR>
> Remnant Imperial Pocket Empires, Aslan Ihatei, Vargr settler and<BR>
> traders, war-torn planets, cemetery worlds, and struggling bands of<BR>
> survivors of Hard Times...<BR>
> <BR>
> There is much to do.<BR>
> <BR>
> Characters could be Regency, Zhodani Observers/Merchants, Vargr,<BR>
> Aslan,<BR>
> Solomani, Former Imperial   Factions (now pocket empires) etc etc,<BR>
> with<BR>
> most of the action set in Dagudashaag, Core, Zarushagaar, Massilia<BR>
> etc?<BR>
> <BR>
> I was toying with the idea of writing this up as a Variant Timeline<BR>
> and<BR>
> seeing if BITS would be interested in releasing it as a LWB. I don't<BR>
> know where Marc stands on Variant Timelines, or even if there would<BR>
> be<BR>
> much interest in the idea, but it would be interesting to see what<BR>
> the<BR>
> opinion is out there...<BR>
> <BR>
> If there is sufficient interest, I'll have a go at writing it up in<BR>
> more<BR>
> detail, and if it can't be published officially, I'll stick it up on<BR>
> the<BR>
> web.<BR>
> <BR>
> It would be nice to have a setting that doesn't take the sledgehammer<BR>
> approach to ending the rebellion, but still has scope for frontiers<BR>
> and<BR>
> restoring civilisation. Basically, only the Regency and the Solomani<BR>
> have a sufficiently vast industrial base to be in the position to<BR>
> fill<BR>
> the power vacuum of the old Imperium, and they would likely meet up<BR>
> in<BR>
> the areas I suggest. Much of the rest of the backstory is there to<BR>
> provide an excuse for a variety of interesting races to be involved,<BR>
> and<BR>
> there is little other way for the Zhodani to be involved. As per<BR>
> usual<BR>
> the Hivers and K'Kree are stuck out in limbo, but there is better<BR>
> opportunity for them to have expanded into the trailing sectors of<BR>
> the<BR>
> old Imperium...<BR>
> <BR>
> As I say, this was based on a quick idea espoused over a pint at<BR>
> GenCon<BR>
> (just after I'd raised the idea of a D20 system variant of Traveller<BR>
> to<BR>
> everyone's consternation <weg>), so will obviously need a lot more<BR>
> work<BR>
> to make it into a polished setting, but if there is interest I will<BR>
> have<BR>
> a go (Real Life permitting of course...)<BR>
> <BR>
> Matt<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:43:02 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
<BR>
> Go for it!  I like it better than the blasted landscape left by Virus,<BR>
> if only because it allows more "breathing room"<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like a great idea and I think a lot of people on here feel the same.<BR>
Maybe Marc would know better if you all spoke up.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:46:26 -0400<BR>
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon?<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:28:49 -0700<BR>
>From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
>Subject: Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<snip><BR>
>Well, the Black Curtain won't be there that early. I should perhaps have<BR>
>specified its size - on one map it covers most of Core Sector, on another<BR>
>it covers most of Core, Fornast and Ley, plus bits of Lishun and Antares.<BR>
><BR>
>(I suspect the Imperium would have noticed that. ;-)   )<BR>
<BR>
More than likely, actually, yes. =) Still, whatever caused the Black <BR>
Curtain could be around as early as the 5FW... or even earlier if it was <BR>
caused by one of Grandfather's toys.  I hate casting aside most subtle plot <BR>
twists like this. =)<BR>
<BR>
>The Empress Wave is another matter.<BR>
<BR>
<snip> Funny, I was just about to say that.... =) It seems... kind of hard <BR>
to reconcile with CT canon.  (There is only one game, <BR>
Travel--!*mmphrrmph!*).  The Zhos are pictured as being a metastable <BR>
society.  (Well, metastable as long as the nobs are psionic) during the <BR>
time that the Empress Wave would be cruising through the Conslate and <BR>
ripping apart their society.  And something as inherently destabilizing as <BR>
a wave that turns non-psionics into psionics (or was that only, makes them <BR>
see the vision?)<BR>
<BR>
Though, the Empress Wave, or a form of it, could have some interesting RP <BR>
potential.  After all, all those Core Expeditions that the Zhos have been <BR>
going on would surely have been noticed by a sufficiently advanced <BR>
civilization coreward....<BR>
<BR>
>Yet it's only when the Imperium notice it (through LONGBOW) that the <BR>
>Zhodani start acting funny.<BR>
<BR>
This is a surprise.  I didn't imagine Longbow could detect psionic <BR>
signals.  That must mark a rather unusual turn in 3I technology... or is <BR>
that partly what those two chartered and secret psionics institutes were <BR>
studying?<BR>
<BR>
Yet why would Strephon go to a Longbow station himself?<BR>
<BR>
Argh... as someone else said, so many mysteries, so little clues.  It would <BR>
be nice to see some canon mysteries again.. which we have a hope of <BR>
discovering the answers to!  =) Then again, they did that with the <BR>
Ancients, and look what happened...<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, time for me to end this ramble. =)  Cheers!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3068<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3069</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/19/00 9:24:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 19 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3069<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Java (was Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?)<BR>
Re: Java (was Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?)<BR>
Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
RE: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
Re: Belief systems...<BR>
RE: How to create a NPC race?<BR>
Re: Belief systems...<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
RE: TNE Canon?<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums <BR>
Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
[Heresy] Trav 3D (was re: Alternate Imperia)<BR>
Deckplan formats<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: [Heresy] Trav 3D (was re: Alternate Imperia)<BR>
RE: hairy ticks and bars<BR>
Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:01:12 -0400<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Java (was Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?)<BR>
<BR>
First off, I didn't want to do this! But you made me!<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
><BR>
> Short answer. Java is interpreted.  Just like perl.  Very portable but not<BR>
> as fast as compiled code.  If machine speeds keep going up, it won't be an<BR>
> issue.  When Cray starts writing modelling  applications in java...<BR>
<BR>
Java code is not interpreted. It's compiled to an intermediate form<BR>
and then (essentially) linked at run time. There are no Java Virtual<BR>
Machines in commercial use that are pure interpreters. <BR>
<BR>
And before you go arguing with me, I manage Java products, including a <BR>
Java profiler, for a company devoted to producing tools for Java <BR>
developers. By the end of this year, I'll have spoken at 5 (I think)<BR>
Java conferences, including JavaOne. No, I do not have a massive ego,<BR>
but if I pretend to have one maybe I can actually get the last word in <BR>
on this topic. On every other topic of discussion, most people on this<BR>
list know more than me. But I can honestly say that I know more about<BR>
Java. (Probably. :) ) Plus, I would really talk about something else.<BR>
<BR>
A well written Java program, on a medium-to-high end desktop machine,<BR>
should run as fast as a similar program written in C/C++. A good VM<BR>
implementation is key - the Solaris and Windows VMs from Sun are quite<BR>
good. Mac support is lousy. Other platform support is also spotty.<BR>
Just pretend Java is just another language and don't get too confused by<BR>
the half-baked promises of cross-platform execution. Those were made by<BR>
marketing people, not the engineers.<BR>
<BR>
Also note that Cray machines run "normal" programs rather slowly. They<BR>
have relatively low processor speeds compared to almost anything else in<BR>
the same price category. What they kick ass at is vector processing and<BR>
striding through gigantic amounts of data. Need to reduce a 1,024 by 1,024<BR>
matrix? Get a cray. Need to run anything else? Get a real fast "normal"<BR>
machine.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: There have been several articles as of late in IEE Computer <BR>
about field reconfigurable processing elements using advanced FPGAs<BR>
and the like... to haul up an older (and better) flame war, by TTL 10<BR>
or so it should be quite easy to have a piece of hardware that can be<BR>
reconfigured, through software, on the fly to perform specific types<BR>
of calculations like encryption, signal processing, etc, in a single unit.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                         egh@klg.com<BR>
Product Manager, KL Group                    http://www.klg.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:32:46 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Java (was Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?)<BR>
<BR>
on 9/19/00 7:01 AM, Ethan Henry at egh@klg.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Java code is not interpreted. It's compiled to an intermediate form<BR>
> and then (essentially) linked at run time. There are no Java Virtual<BR>
> Machines in commercial use that are pure interpreters.<BR>
<BR>
I misspoke. You are correct.<BR>
> <BR>
> A well written Java program, on a medium-to-high end desktop machine,<BR>
> should run as fast as a similar program written in C/C++.<BR>
<BR>
OK, then the problem is that I have never seen a well written java<BR>
application.  I am currently working in a environment where 2 java based<BR>
application are in use.  One of these was also originally available as a C++<BR>
based win32 application. The java version crawls.<BR>
<BR>
And if java is not 'cross-platform', what's the point? Do we really need<BR>
another language?<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav.  Is there any standardization in the 3I with regard to computer<BR>
technology?  Will apps written for a LSP computer run on another vendor's<BR>
box.  Does any one megacorp dominate the hardware or software industry of<BR>
the 3?<BR>
<BR>
An why has there been so little computer progress in in several thousand<BR>
years, anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:37:08 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
<BR>
Greetings all,<BR>
<BR>
Due to stupidity on my part, the list membership for the Grand Survey<BR>
project mailing list was deleted during a recent server move.  If you were a<BR>
member of the Grand Survey mailing list, please resubscribe by sending mail<BR>
to majordomo@travellercentral.com with 'subscribe grandsurvey' in the body<BR>
of the message.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:37:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
Dean Jones :<BR>
<BR>
>But not THAT much favouritism...they're humans corrupted by insidious Alien<BR>
>influences. The players could be heroic, square-jawed SolSec agents<BR>
>defending humanity against scheming horrors from beyond the stars :)<BR>
<BR>
*Laughs*... That's neat. There realy _is_ an alien conspiracy<BR>
that's out to get you. Not only that, but many seemingly<BR>
pacifist and liberal citizens have actualy been psionicaly<BR>
suggested into believing that the aliens are our friends.<BR>
Those damn commi... er, I mean psis, are everywhere!<BR>
<BR>
>Not that surprising, surely? I found the fact that the pacifist Hivers won<BR>
>the war in the 'real' world surprising.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not so sure. The K'Kree empire is staggeringly inefficient. The<BR>
only way they can compensate for their tactical and logistical<BR>
inflexibility is through sheer bloodymindedness.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Matt Bond :<BR>
<BR>
>I was toying with the idea of writing this up as a Variant Timeline and<BR>
>seeing if BITS would be interested in releasing it as a LWB. I don't<BR>
>know where Marc stands on Variant Timelines, or even if there would be<BR>
>much interest in the idea, but it would be interesting to see what the<BR>
>opinion is out there...<BR>
<BR>
It sounds interesting. I never realy minded the Rebellion, or even Virus<BR>
for that matter. I just got fed up with TNE for screwing continuity<BR>
(Heplar - gag!) and coming up with such a complete turkey of a system.<BR>
The combat mechanics were hideous.<BR>
<BR>
I can see a 'recovering from the ruins' campaign working. Perhaps even<BR>
a 'Morrow Project', traveller style.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Simon Hibbs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:38:00 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "Joseph Alberti Jr." <albertijjr@juno.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
"Basically, virus was never released, the Research station being<BR>
destroyed in the battle between Dulinor's Coronation Fleet and Lucans defensive forces. Both Dulinor and Lucan fought themselves to a standstill over the next few months, and their war ravaged economies collapsed under the pressures of Hard Times, as did most of the other Former Imperial Factions, Deneb excluded."<BR>
<BR>
I find this idea interesting.  I like the idea.  In my Traveller gaming I have never ventured beyond 1130. <BR>
<BR>
I have often thought about a MegaTraveller variant where the battle around the research station results in its destruction, so the Virus is not released.  Emperor Dulinor's Coronation Fleet eventually defeats Lucan's forces after fierce battles and eventually takes Capital.  Lucan dies at the hands of a angry mob while trying to escape.  <BR>
<BR>
Dulinor's victory is a hollow one.  His foeces are battered, the areas he rules are experiencng Hard Times in full force, Norris, Margaret, Strephon, and the Restored Vilani Empire do not accept his rule.  The Solomani renew their offensives.  It is basically a scenario where Hard Times continues for a long, long time.<BR>
<BR>
Joe Alberti<BR>
"Long Live Emperor Dulinor"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:38:02 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
<BR>
Lol..<BR>
<BR>
yeah, well, I guess that just shows who tends to talk before thinking ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 12:09 AM<BR>
To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>
Subject: RE: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
No Tsyko dear, it's not that he's physically unable, he's admin staff and<BR>
ain't allowed an opinion (I nearly sent this email myself, but then I<BR>
puzzled it out).<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Tsykoduk [mailto:Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com]<BR>
> Sent: 19 September 2000 04:30<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Hmmm.. amazing lack of posting ability ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of fadetozero<BR>
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 12:21 PM<BR>
> To: traveller-digest@mpgn.com<BR>
> Subject: nuclear weapons in space<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> it's really too bad i'm not able to post to the TML, as i <BR>
> have answers for<BR>
> everything (or, i'm really opinionated.  i haven't decided, <BR>
> altho friends<BR>
> suggest the latter interpretation...)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:22:47 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Belief systems...<BR>
<BR>
At 06:37 AM 9/19/00 -0700, someone wrote:<BR>
>>> The CT Creed: There is no Game but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is<BR>
>>its Product<BR>
>...<BR>
>>There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product.<BR>
><BR>
>  <ahem>  And High Guard is from what "version" of Traveller, hmm?<BR>
<BR>
IIRC High Guard, 2nd Edition is CT.<BR>
<BR>
Still have my 1st Ed. stashed somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:45:49 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: How to create a NPC race?<BR>
<BR>
I handle most of my creation with Gurps, and if need be port it over to<BR>
whatever I'm playing. Important things to remember:<BR>
Cosmetic Effects: Scales and feathers and fur don't HAVE to have game<BR>
effects. That said, they do make good explanations for natural abilities eg<BR>
temperature tolerance, natural armour etc.<BR>
Physiology: That said, Traveller is a realistic, hard sci-fi game, so<BR>
creatures that breathe exotic atmospheres are likely to be anaerobic. <BR>
Natural/Paranormal abilities: You can say that a race can do pretty much<BR>
anything you like just because they can, but that's childish. If you can<BR>
come up with something semi-plausible that might explain it, you look a lot<BR>
better eg a natural defence against electricity might evolve in a species<BR>
which faced predators with an electroshock ability. You could even develop<BR>
this further and let the species buy up defences against other energy-based<BR>
weaponry, but I leave that to YTU. Remember to ask yourself 'What do I want<BR>
this race to add to my game, that isn't already dealt with by another<BR>
race?'. This applies to everything else too.<BR>
Culture and Psychology: Frequently culture and psychology are developed from<BR>
the species reproductive cycles, biological rhythms and environment. Write a<BR>
5,000 essay on the sociological differances between Late 20th century<BR>
America and Bhraa-hakii of the Cyrila 7, who are nocternal cave dwellers<BR>
with a once-a-year mating cycle. Culture may also affect paranormal<BR>
abilities (Imperium vs. Zhodani).<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Jeff Zeitlin [mailto:jzeitlin@cyburban.com]<BR>
> Sent: 18 September 2000 23:14<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: How to create a NPC race?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> I've been browsing my SF collection, and I've decided that there are a<BR>
> couple of races that I'd like to see in a Traveller milieu.  <BR>
> For a number<BR>
> of reasons, I do not consider them likely candidates for <BR>
> Player Characters.<BR>
> Can anyone give me some guidelines for creating them as a NPC <BR>
> race, such<BR>
> that they are not practical for a PC race?  Preferred system <BR>
> is CT/MT/T4,<BR>
> but I have no objection to GT or TNE as well.<BR>
> --<BR>
> Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
> jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:52:40 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Belief systems...<BR>
<BR>
on 9/19/00 9:22 AM, Leslie Bates at lesbates@minn.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:37 AM 9/19/00 -0700, someone wrote:<BR>
>>>> The CT Creed: There is no Game but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is<BR>
>>> its Product<BR>
>> ...<BR>
>>> There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <ahem>  And High Guard is from what "version" of Traveller, hmm?<BR>
> <BR>
> IIRC High Guard, 2nd Edition is CT.<BR>
> <BR>
> Still have my 1st Ed. stashed somewhere.<BR>
> <BR>
> Les<BR>
> <BR>
> ====================================<BR>
> Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
> ====================================<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
We'll, first edition should be CT as well.  Now comes the question.  Which<BR>
is heresey?  CT first or second edition. I only recently found out there<BR>
were differences between the two when I got the new BFB reprints.  They<BR>
didn't match my LBBs.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:57:03 -0400<BR>
From: "Axel" <axel@arvotek.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:23:06 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From:           	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
<BR>
> > <BR>
> > 'Alien Bloodbath' - Full scale war breaks out between the Hivers and<BR>
> > the K'Kree. Amazingly the K'Kree are winning, but casualties on both<BR>
> > sides are massive. Huge waves of refugees flee into surrounding space,<BR>
> > including the Imperial and Solomani spheres. Many Hiver sympathisers<BR>
> > form volunteer regiments to help defend the federation core worlds<BR>
> > before they are obliterated.<BR>
> <BR>
> Not that surprising, surely? I found the fact that the pacifist Hivers won<BR>
> the war in the 'real' world surprising.<BR>
<BR>
Bear in mind that while they won the war they lost pretty well all <BR>
the battles.<BR>
<BR>
They sent some fleet elements on deep penetration missions and did <BR>
their manipulation thing.<BR>
<BR>
They won the war by being able to say:<BR>
<BR>
See those K'kree on those planets?<BR>
<BR>
They're carnivores they are.<BR>
<BR>
We did that to 'em matey, and if you don't sign a peace treaty right <BR>
now, we'll do the same to all the rest of you.<BR>
<BR>
So K'kree High Command signed a peace treaty and sterilised the 4 <BR>
worlds in question.<BR>
<BR>
- -<BR>
Axel...                                        ...Callisti<BR>
Hail Eris...                         ...All Hail Discordia<BR>
<BR>
<axel@arvotek.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:06:16 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TNE Canon?<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> <BR>
> This is a surprise.  I didn't imagine Longbow could detect psionic <BR>
> signals.  That must mark a rather unusual turn in 3I <BR>
> technology... or is <BR>
> that partly what those two chartered and secret psionics <BR>
> institutes were <BR>
> studying?<BR>
> <BR>
> Yet why would Strephon go to a Longbow station himself?<BR>
> <BR>
> Argh... as someone else said, so many mysteries, so little <BR>
> clues.  It would <BR>
> be nice to see some canon mysteries again.. which we have a hope of <BR>
> discovering the answers to!  =) Then again, they did that with the <BR>
> Ancients, and look what happened...<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well, we do know at least one person who was at GDW, working on Traveller<BR>
and who is a member of this mailing list. I rather suspect, however,  that<BR>
even if he does know Mr Wiseman is playing his cards very close to his<BR>
chest...remember that the G:T universe is one where the rebellion didn't<BR>
happen - but otherwise it's the same universe as CT - and so presumably<BR>
those events not a direct result of the rebellion will occur in G:T. Or<BR>
maybe I'm just full of it. Fact is, that's all just speculation. I don't<BR>
work for Loren and I've got no inside info. FNORD. I AM looking forward to<BR>
finding out if my 'conspiracy theories' are correct though <chortle><BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 00:41:30 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums <BR>
<BR>
> From: Matt Bond <BR>
> At GenCon UK I briefly talked to Andy Lilly about an idea for an<BR>
> alternate post rebellion setting.<BR>
<BR>
A timeline vaguely similar to this was discussed for a while on this list<BR>
sometime in the last year or so.  Of course the discussion collapsed into<BR>
everyone having different and incompatible ideas! :)<BR>
<BR>
> I was toying with the idea of writing this up as a Variant Timeline<BR>
> and seeing if BITS would be interested in releasing it as a LWB. I don't<BR>
> know where Marc stands on Variant Timelines, or even if there would<BR>
> be much interest in the idea, but it would be interesting to see what<BR>
> the opinion is out there...<BR>
>  <BR>
> If there is sufficient interest, I'll have a go at writing it up in<BR>
> more detail, and if it can't be published officially, I'll stick it up on<BR>
> the web.<BR>
<BR>
Go for it.  I'd spend money on it.  (Of course, it's not easy to get hold<BR>
of BITS stuff here, so I'd have to order it from overseas, mutter<BR>
mumble...)<BR>
<BR>
Actually part of the reason why I have looked at the Civil War in the past<BR>
was to go for a bit of extra anarchy in an Imperial setting, without having<BR>
to worry about V***s, or the sustained fighting of the Rebellion.  It is<BR>
actually more civilised than what you are suggesting, but has all the neato<BR>
personalities like Arbellatra, Gustus, Soegz and Caranda to muck about<BR>
with.  <BR>
<BR>
If I was actually going to play a game in the setting you described, I<BR>
might consider using a successor state in Antares or Lishun, where former<BR>
underlings of Brzk have got together with "wild" Vargr factions and have<BR>
settled down.  If Cogs & Dogs wasn't lost inside the Sanger (spit!)<BR>
Curtain, I would have picked one of the factions mentioned in there.  In a<BR>
disguised form, I still would.  So this would be a option I would like to<BR>
see left open.<BR>
<BR>
> As I say, this was based on a quick idea espoused over a pint at<BR>
> GenCon (just after I'd raised the idea of a D20 system variant of<BR>
> Traveller to everyone's consternation <weg>), <BR>
<BR>
Geez, you can't hold your pints, can you?  Call this man a taxi!(*)  D20<BR>
system Traveller, indeed....  :)<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
(*) I will save everyone the bother of making the joke:  Matt, you're a<BR>
taxi!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:15:45 -0700<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
At 09:25 PM 9/18/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Osta - A female of a priestly family - (wife, daughter, sister, or niece of<BR>
>a priest)<BR>
<BR>
Opps - mistyped. The above should read: Osti (an Osta is somebody else<BR>
entirely).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:24:33 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: [Heresy] Trav 3D (was re: Alternate Imperia)<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:36:51 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
> From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
> Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
> <BR>
> BTW, I'm on-again-off-again working on a 3D version of Traveller...<BR>
> Does anyone know if there are any sources for stars<BR>
> farther away than 50 parsecs? <BR>
<BR>
Try:<BR>
<BR>
http://members.nova.org/~sol/chview/<BR>
<BR>
There is an older file with data out to 250 ly. You may have to download<BR>
and run ChView, open the file, and Save As a "star list" file (.lst). This<BR>
produces a "/"-delimited text file, with (x,y,z) coordinates.<BR>
<BR>
Note that (1) no catalog of nearby stars is complete -- distant stars are<BR>
under-represented, at a rate that depends on luminosity -- and (2) the<BR>
standard maps of the Flat Imperium have only the vaguest connection with<BR>
3D reality, even in close proximity to Sol.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:29:35 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
    On the HIWG CD their are some deckplans (mostly in GIF format IIRC), I'd <BR>
like suggestions on what other formats to provide them in (particularly <BR>
vector).<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:22:55 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Joseph Alberti Jr. [mailto:albertijjr@juno.com]<BR>
> Sent: 19 September 2000 15:38<BR>
> To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> "Basically, virus was never released, the Research station being<BR>
> destroyed in the battle between Dulinor's Coronation Fleet <BR>
> and Lucans defensive forces. Both Dulinor and Lucan fought <BR>
> themselves to a standstill over the next few months, and <BR>
> their war ravaged economies collapsed under the pressures of <BR>
> Hard Times, as did most of the other Former Imperial <BR>
> Factions, Deneb excluded."<BR>
> <BR>
> I find this idea interesting.  I like the idea.  In my <BR>
> Traveller gaming I have never ventured beyond 1130. <BR>
> <BR>
> I have often thought about a MegaTraveller variant where the <BR>
> battle around the research station results in its <BR>
> destruction, so the Virus is not released.  Emperor Dulinor's <BR>
> Coronation Fleet eventually defeats Lucan's forces after <BR>
> fierce battles and eventually takes Capital.  Lucan dies at <BR>
> the hands of a angry mob while trying to escape.  <BR>
> <BR>
> Dulinor's victory is a hollow one.  His forces are battered, <BR>
> the areas he rules are experiencing Hard Times in full force, <BR>
> Norris, Margaret, Strephon, and the Restored Vilani Empire do <BR>
> not accept his rule.  The Solomani renew their offensives.  <BR>
> It is basically a scenario where Hard Times continues for a <BR>
> long, long time.<BR>
> <BR>
> Joe Alberti<BR>
> "Long Live Emperor Dulinor"<BR>
<BR>
The thing is, not everyone is suffering Hard Times, and these will have<BR>
the industrial base (once the centre of the Imperium is reduced to petty<BR>
states) to absorb these regions. The K'Kree and Hivers are too far away<BR>
to really do much, The Zhodani aren't interested in expanding further,<BR>
and in any case the Regency is acting as a buffer. The Vargr will raid<BR>
until there is no trade to capture, then settle ravaged planets. The<BR>
Aslan will take the opportunity to grab land on the Spinward/Rimward<BR>
periphery, but won't be expanding in any organised way (and are hampered<BR>
by the arm of the Great Rift). The Solomani and Regency have weathered<BR>
the rebellion relatively intact. <BR>
<BR>
The only thing that would stop Solomani domination of the former<BR>
Imperium would be a Regency expanding towards them, hence the foothold I<BR>
give them in Strephon's Stronghold. I think it highly likely that<BR>
Strephon would ally with Norris in this way, and probably be succeeded<BR>
by Avery uniting Strephon and the Regency in one polity.<BR>
<BR>
I cannot see either Dulinor or Lucan (whichever 'wins') rebuilding their<BR>
shattered regions before the Solomani utilise their relatively untouched<BR>
Industrial base to overwhelm them, unless a power such as the Regency<BR>
can intervene.<BR>
<BR>
The Solomani, once they encounter Regency Vessels in numbers, will<BR>
probably content themselves with the reabsorbtion of the Autonomous<BR>
Region, and slowly expanding out from there. It would overstretch their<BR>
supply lines to prosecute a major conflict with the Regency (and vice<BR>
versa) so I see a 'cold war' style impasse, with a 'neutral zone'<BR>
between them into which each is trying to out do the other in terms of<BR>
trade, political sway, and restoration of civilisation...<BR>
<BR>
Cue several Star Trek Original Series Federation vs. Klingon style<BR>
meddling in 'backwater' planets type adventures...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:39:37 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
Comments on the Empress Wave thread --<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris:<BR>
<BR>
> It is a psionic phenomenon propagating at the speed of light.  It was<BR>
> first noted by the Imperium in 1119*.<BR>
<BR>
Survival Margin suggests sooner, possibly much sooner.  The message from<BR>
Pentecost to Strephon seemed more like 1103 or so, and that looked more<BR>
like a report of a crash study in progress than anything else.<BR>
<BR>
Note that then Strephon institutes Jumpstart immediately after getting<BR>
the report if 1103 is accurate.<BR>
<BR>
The impression I got was that the phenomenon mediated to Strephon in 1116<BR>
was not the Wave itself, but a precursor image.  That might explain his<BR>
impression of it being a "moment where something's about to happen".<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance:<BR>
<BR>
> 1 - A phenomenon travelling at the speed of light would have been<BR>
> detectable at the Lishun depot precisely at the moment when it reached it,<BR>
> not a moment before.<BR>
<BR>
True.  Two comments there:<BR>
  * The phenomenon detected at Depot/Lishun isn't the Empress Wave, but<BR>
    some precursor signal.<BR>
  * Regency Sourcebook, I think, mentions that there were some mobile or<BR>
    forward monitoring stations in Vargr space.  ("Gabriel" etc.?)<BR>
<BR>
> 2 - For a phenomenon travelling at the speed of light to be approximately<BR>
> 86 light years away from the Imperium in 1119, it would have had to<BR>
> entered the Zhodani Consulate in in approximately 735. Therefore, by the<BR>
> time the Zhodani opened the 3rd Frontier War (979), the Wave had effected<BR>
> roughly 60% of the Consulate<BR>
<BR>
Interestingly, Longbow was set up in about 800 as I recall; a fascinating<BR>
and conspiracy-laden date for a lot of reasons.  :)  No comment on the<BR>
rest of point two -- except that the extent of the Consulate on the DGP<BR>
dot map (in V&V) is too big compared with GDW's Zhodani module and the<BR>
old Red-and-Black poster map.<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:47:47 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [Heresy] Trav 3D (was re: Alternate Imperia)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- --- Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com> wrote:<BR>
> > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:36:51 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
> > From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
> > Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
> > <BR>
> > BTW, I'm on-again-off-again working on a 3D version of Traveller...<BR>
> > Does anyone know if there are any sources for stars<BR>
> > farther away than 50 parsecs? <BR>
> <BR>
> Try:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://members.nova.org/~sol/chview/<BR>
> <BR>
> There is an older file with data out to 250 ly. You may have to<BR>
> download<BR>
> and run ChView, open the file, and Save As a "star list" file (.lst).<BR>
> This<BR>
> produces a "/"-delimited text file, with (x,y,z) coordinates.<BR>
> <BR>
> Note that (1) no catalog of nearby stars is complete -- distant stars<BR>
> are<BR>
> under-represented, at a rate that depends on luminosity -- and (2)<BR>
> the<BR>
> standard maps of the Flat Imperium have only the vaguest connection<BR>
> with<BR>
> 3D reality, even in close proximity to Sol.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:06:11<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: hairy ticks and bars<BR>
<BR>
At 07:40 AM 9/19/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Fern Bar? Is that slang I'm not familiar with or...<BR>
<BR>
A trendy club for yuppies to network in.  Noted for all the ferns hanging<BR>
all over the place, and the ridiculous prices.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:19:52 -0400<BR>
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
At 10:37 AM 09/19/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>It sounds interesting. I never realy minded the Rebellion, or even Virus<BR>
>for that matter. I just got fed up with TNE for screwing continuity<BR>
>(Heplar - gag!) and coming up with such a complete turkey of a system.<BR>
>The combat mechanics were hideous.<BR>
><BR>
>I can see a 'recovering from the ruins' campaign working. Perhaps even<BR>
>a 'Morrow Project', traveller style.<BR>
<BR>
I'm currently running a MP/Traveller crossover PBEM.  Interesting game, the <BR>
players are Project members and the Traveller group is all <BR>
NPC.  Perceptions are everything in this type of game.<BR>
<BR>
Kurt Feltenberger<BR>
<BR>
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>
    may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>
      ~Stephen Decatur<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3069<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3070</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 19 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3070<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
GURPS Traveller auction on ebay<BR>
Re: [Heresy] Trav 3D (was re: Alternate Imperia)<BR>
Re: TNE Canon?<BR>
needless pedantry<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
RE: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
RE: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: TNE Canon?<BR>
Re: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums <BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: TNE Canon? INCLUDES RSB SPOILERS<BR>
Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Re: Belief systems...<BR>
Trade Route Colours<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:24:49<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: GURPS Traveller auction on ebay<BR>
<BR>
If anyone is interested in getting into GURPS trav quickly, somebody is<BR>
auctioning off 7 GT books on ebay.  Right now the high bid is only $36.<BR>
<BR>
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=442624853<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:38:47 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [Heresy] Trav 3D (was re: Alternate Imperia)<BR>
<BR>
Christopher Thrash writes:<BR>
> > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:36:51 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
> > From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
> > Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
> > <BR>
> > BTW, I'm on-again-off-again working on a 3D version of Traveller...<BR>
> > Does anyone know if there are any sources for stars<BR>
> > farther away than 50 parsecs? <BR>
> <BR>
> Try:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://members.nova.org/~sol/chview/<BR>
<BR>
You can also directly look up various data sources; I recommend starting from the 3d starmaps page at http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html<BR>
<BR>
Be aware that any map to a significant distance is missing a _lot_ of stars.<BR>
At 50 parsecs, you're probably missing 25-50% of the G-class stars, more<BR>
than 80% of the K-class stars, and more than 99% of the M-class stars.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:37:33 -0400<BR>
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon?<BR>
<BR>
A thought just occurred to me... Virus could very well be semi-canon at the <BR>
time of 5FW, or at least the seeds of it.<BR>
<BR>
Signal GK, anyone...?  I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest this.<BR>
<BR>
 From the humble beginnings of a silicon-based lifeform somewhere near the <BR>
Solomani Rim, to whatever Virus becomes in your TU (either the bane of the <BR>
Regency and RefCoal, or so much dust in an Imperial Research Station that's <BR>
even more dust after being bombed from orbit.)  Gives one something of a <BR>
warm feeling for consistency. =)<BR>
<BR>
Cheers<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:43:14 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Lieb <steve@necadon.com><BR>
Subject: needless pedantry<BR>
<BR>
This may be pedantic, but shouldn't we be well into volume 2000 of the<BR>
digest, instead of volume 1999?<BR>
<BR>
OK, not maybe: it is.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:48:01 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:<BR>
<BR>
> 2 - For a phenomenon travelling at the speed of light to be approximately <BR>
> 86 light years away from the Imperium in 1119, it would have had to <BR>
> entered the Zhodani Consulate in in approximately 735. Therefore, by the <BR>
> time the Zhodani opened the 3rd Frontier War (979), the Wave had effected <BR>
> roughly 60% of the Consulate<BR>
<BR>
Worse than that.  Given the direction of travel, the Zhodani have probably<BR>
been aware of the Wave since the Core expeditions crossed it; figure they<BR>
probably knew about it since at least -3,000.  Given that they kept sending<BR>
Core expeditions, presumably they also had a pretty good idea of how to<BR>
safely pass through the wave...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:03:29 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Macintosh writes:<BR>
> An obvious solution to the Empress Wave timing problems is to have it<BR>
> propgate moderately faster than light - a couple of hexes per year -<BR>
> rather than exactly at the speed of light. There's lots of canon suggestions<BR>
> that psi phenomena are FTL...<BR>
<BR>
If we assume 5 parsecs/year, the Zhodani have been aware of it since at least <BR>
500 (depending on how far you think the 6th core expedition got), and  successfully sent the 7th core expedition _through_ the wave, apparently<BR>
without ill effect.  Furthermore, it obviously did not cause the collapse<BR>
of the Zhodani worlds along the core path, or the 7th core expedition would<BR>
have been a failure.<BR>
<BR>
If you want to avoid contradicting the core expeditions, the wave needs to <BR>
have been travelling 20+ parsecs/year, in which case it will pass through the<BR>
bulk of the Consulate in under a decade.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:42:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Unfortunately, I can't find anything useful there.  I'm not looking<BR>
> for info about religions, just the heirarchies.  For example, in the<BR>
> Christian/Catholic tradition, I know where Bishops, Deacons, and<BR>
> Accolytes are in the heirarchy.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, with Catholics, it's roughly:<BR>
<BR>
Pope<BR>
Cardinal<BR>
Archbishop<BR>
Bishop<BR>
<several ranks may go here such as Monsignor and Metropolitan><BR>
Priest <BR>
<not sure about lower ranks><BR>
<BR>
The Orthodox churches do things rather differently, and many if not<BR>
most, Protestant churches don't have anything above Bishop (if they<BR>
even have *that*)<BR>
<BR>
> I've heard the terms Mullah and Imam with regard to Islam, but I have<BR>
> no idea what the relation is and if there are any other titles.<BR>
<BR>
That's because Islam doesn't have much of a hierarchy. As I understand<BR>
it, it doesn't go much above the equivalent of the bishop/archbishop<BR>
level. <BR>
<BR>
>Same for Buddhism and everything else.<BR>
<BR>
Many religions don't have the sort of hierarchy you are looking for.<BR>
Heck, I'm tempted o say that *most* don't.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:53:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 18 Sep 2000, at 21:07, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>> On 18 Sep 2000, at 16:38, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>>> I bet he *really* got laid into by whoever was in charge of your<BR>
>>>> group when they found out.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> The Powers That Be never did - it was dealt with 'in house' as it<BR>
>>> were.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I was thinking of the non-com in charge, not the officers (*Never*<BR>
>> worry officers with info they don't need to know :-)<BR>
><BR>
> In basic we were all of the firm opinion that none of the instuctors,<BR>
> be they NCO or Officer, needed to know such things. Our barracks were<BR>
> divided up into 10-man rooms, one section per room. We made sure the<BR>
> NCOs were all away, shut the door and had a little 'talk' with the guy.<BR>
<BR>
Ah. "Peer pressure" applied via high speed application of knuckles...<BR>
:-) <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:01:02 +0100<BR>
From: Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
Joseph Alberti Jr. wrote:<BR>
> Dulinor's victory is a hollow one.  His foeces are battered, <BR>
> the areas he rules are experiencng Hard Times in full force, <BR>
> Norris, Margaret, Strephon, and the Restored Vilani Empire do <BR>
> not accept his rule.  The Solomani renew their offensives.  <BR>
> It is basically a scenario where Hard Times continues for a <BR>
> long, long time.<BR>
<BR>
Then the Federated Suns attack the Draconis Combine and ... oops,<BR>
wrong game.  Or is it?  What  some  people  are  discussing  here<BR>
sounds a lot like the basic  background  of  Battletech  universe<BR>
(without the mechs)!  For those who don't know Battletech it  had<BR>
an empire that broke into 4 or 5 factions due to treason  at  the<BR>
top, these factions have a lower TL than the original empire  and<BR>
are more or less stalemated in  permanant  civil  war  with  each<BR>
other.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
> 3) "The Seventh Race" - While it is said that no other major<BR>
> races have been found & that their are only six, what if they<BR>
> didn't go far enough?  What if this seventh race combined the<BR>
> shape of the humans, the mental powers of the Zhodani, the<BR>
> Warrior Code of the Aslan, the Fanatic Urge of the K'Kree &<BR>
> were heading for the "Known Universe" of Traveller, hell bent<BR>
> for leather to invade & take over?  The worst part is that they<BR>
> are at TL-20 & the "Known Universe" is at TL-15.<BR>
<BR>
In the Battletech universe they were called "The Clans".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:13:01 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > 2 - For a phenomenon travelling at the speed of light to be <BR>
> approximately <BR>
> > 86 light years away from the Imperium in 1119, it would have had to <BR>
> > entered the Zhodani Consulate in in approximately 735. <BR>
> Therefore, by the <BR>
> > time the Zhodani opened the 3rd Frontier War (979), the <BR>
> Wave had effected <BR>
> > roughly 60% of the Consulate<BR>
> <BR>
> Worse than that.  Given the direction of travel, the Zhodani <BR>
> have probably<BR>
> been aware of the Wave since the Core expeditions crossed it; <BR>
> figure they<BR>
> probably knew about it since at least -3,000.  Given that <BR>
> they kept sending<BR>
> Core expeditions, presumably they also had a pretty good idea <BR>
> of how to<BR>
> safely pass through the wave...<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Yeah, no problem...Jump Drive. If a Psi signal can't reach out of a ship in<BR>
Jump, it's a fair bet one can't reach in. The Core expeditions just have to<BR>
keep track of where the wave is and Jump past it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:30:09 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
Jones, Dean writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Yeah, no problem...Jump Drive. If a Psi signal can't reach out of a ship in<BR>
> Jump, it's a fair bet one can't reach in. The Core expeditions just have to<BR>
> keep track of where the wave is and Jump past it.<BR>
<BR>
Well, the Zhodani have been establishing colonies along the core route as<BR>
advance/supply bases.  Apparently those haven't collapsed either (or at a<BR>
minimum, were relatively easy to restore).  Dealing with something like <BR>
the Empress Wave would be a big pain for the Zhodani, but with millennia of<BR>
experience and a tendency to take the long view it's unlikely that the<BR>
Zhodani couldn't have dealt with the Wave fairly efficiently.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:33:27 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 Kagehira@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     On the HIWG CD their are some deckplans (mostly in GIF format IIRC), I'd <BR>
> like suggestions on what other formats to provide them in (particularly <BR>
> vector).<BR>
> <BR>
> Bryan<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Postscript would be about the only real x-platform one. QT for Windows<BR>
doesn't handle vector Pict files well, and the equivalent in the Windows<BR>
worlds, the WMF file a) isn't very good to start with, and b) doesn't even<BR>
work all the time on Windows.<BR>
<BR>
There are some vector formats that *nix uses, but few of them are<BR>
compatible outside of *nix. This pretty much leaves Postscript.<BR>
<BR>
Ghostscript is available for a variety of platforms, and will open<BR>
well-behaved PS files just fine, and let you print them on about seventy<BR>
kajillion different printers.<BR>
<BR>
The trick is extracting the vector information from those gifs, unless the<BR>
gifs are being made from existing vector formats you have to open them in<BR>
something like Illustrator or Adobe Streamline and trace them.<BR>
<BR>
On the plus side there are also PS-capable editors on all platforms (I'm<BR>
reasonably certain) I do know that Illustrator, Freehand, and I think<BR>
Corel Draw will import PS files, on the Mac and PC, and there _has_ to be<BR>
a vector-oriented drawing program for *nix that'll handle PS file. I know<BR>
Stone software makes one, but I'm not sure what platforms it's available<BR>
on. Corel is planning to port Corel Draw to the X86/Linux platform.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:34:21 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Jones, Dean writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Yeah, no problem...Jump Drive. If a Psi signal can't reach <BR>
> out of a ship in<BR>
> > Jump, it's a fair bet one can't reach in. The Core <BR>
> expeditions just have to<BR>
> > keep track of where the wave is and Jump past it.<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, the Zhodani have been establishing colonies along the <BR>
> core route as<BR>
> advance/supply bases.  Apparently those haven't collapsed <BR>
> either (or at a<BR>
> minimum, were relatively easy to restore).  Dealing with <BR>
> something like <BR>
> the Empress Wave would be a big pain for the Zhodani, but <BR>
> with millennia of<BR>
> experience and a tendency to take the long view it's unlikely that the<BR>
> Zhodani couldn't have dealt with the Wave fairly efficiently.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I don't have my TNE stuff with me...what's the situation with the E-wave vs<BR>
Psi shielding? Also, if the power were turned up to increase the EM<BR>
interferance, would the shield increase in effectiveness?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:37:22 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon?<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> A thought just occurred to me... Virus could very well be semi-canon at the <BR>
> time of 5FW, or at least the seeds of it.<BR>
> <BR>
> Signal GK, anyone...?  I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest this.<BR>
> <BR>
>  From the humble beginnings of a silicon-based lifeform somewhere near the <BR>
> Solomani Rim, to whatever Virus becomes in your TU (either the bane of the <BR>
> Regency and RefCoal, or so much dust in an Imperial Research Station that's <BR>
> even more dust after being bombed from orbit.)  Gives one something of a <BR>
> warm feeling for consistency. =)<BR>
> <BR>
> Cheers<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
No you are not the first. In fact this is _exactly_ the case in<BR>
canon...see Survival Margin, and Vampire Fleets.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:07:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Does anyone know if there are any sources for stars farther away than<BR>
> 50 parsecs?<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that the farther out you go the less accurate *and* less<BR>
complete the data is. <BR>
<BR>
That is, not only are the positions of the stars uncertain, but you<BR>
also don't have all of them listed. The dimmer stars are hard to spot<BR>
that far away.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:45:36 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
Jones, Dean writes:<BR>
<BR>
> I don't have my TNE stuff with me...what's the situation with the E-wave vs<BR>
> Psi shielding? Also, if the power were turned up to increase the EM<BR>
> interferance, would the shield increase in effectiveness?<BR>
<BR>
Shrug.  My guess on the actual effects of the Wave on the Zhodani is that the<BR>
trained psionics would figure out ways to avoid the wave (which would be bad<BR>
for them) and the proles would tend to seek out the wave, particularly for<BR>
their children.  In any case, I suspect low passage berths would protect <BR>
their occupants, since the brain is shut down.<BR>
<BR>
With a bit of cautious experimentation, the Zho could possibly achive a 100%<BR>
psionic society.  It's not clear they'd consider that a bad thing...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:56:00 -0500<BR>
From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > Unfortunately, I can't find anything useful there.  I'm not looking<BR>
> > for info about religions, just the heirarchies.  For example, in the<BR>
> > Christian/Catholic tradition, I know where Bishops, Deacons, and<BR>
> > Accolytes are in the heirarchy.<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, with Catholics, it's roughly:<BR>
<BR>
I wasn't asserting that this is the heirarchy.  Years as an altar-boy<BR>
has me well-acquainted with the structure.  I was only saying I<BR>
know where those ranks are within the hierarchy.<BR>
<BR>
You can see my effort to fit these into a Traveller system of ranks<BR>
here, with some additions taken from Anglican and Orthodox:<BR>
<BR>
http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/impchrch.htm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:39:53 -0500<BR>
From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
"J. Paul Sanders" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hierarchy:<BR>
><BR>
> Mobed - Head Priest - Archbishop<BR>
> Dastur - High Priest - Bishop<BR>
> Magus - Priest (inner temple) - Priest<BR>
> Ervad - Priest (outer temple) - Deacon<BR>
> Osta - 'Disciple' (candidate) - Seminarian<BR>
<BR>
PERFECT!!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
> Anyway - if you do decide to use this in a Traveller context, I hope you'll<BR>
> send me a copy as I'd really be interested in seeing what you come up with.<BR>
<BR>
It will be posted on the web.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:49:15 -0500<BR>
From: Bloo <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Non-christian religious orders?<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
[snip GREAT stuff]<BR>
<BR>
> Good luck trying to come up with a hierarchy for your purposes. :)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.  This was the kind of info I needed.  I'm going to stay away<BR>
from Imam and Ayatollahs, I think.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:03:25 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
>From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
><BR>
>Might I also recommend a Traveller/Dark Conspiracy crossover.  You see,<BR>
jumpspace is actually a >series of proto-dimensions, and the folks there are<BR>
getting tired of starships barging through, >upsetting the order of things.<BR>
Time to get even ...<BR>
<BR>
There are whispered hints of such unholiness scattered throughout the canon.<BR>
Look carefully at the tales of the Abyss Rift in Lanth Subsector.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed, I recommend a Traveller/Call of Cthulhu crossover.  Why settle for<BR>
the lesser evil?<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:03:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums <BR>
<BR>
>From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
><BR>
>Actually part of the reason why I have looked at the Civil War in the past<BR>
was to go for a bit<BR>
>of extra anarchy in an Imperial setting, without having to worry about<BR>
V***s, or the sustained<BR>
>fighting of the Rebellion.  It is actually more civilised than what you are<BR>
suggesting, but has<BR>
>all the neato personalities like Arbellatra, Gustus, Soegz and Caranda to<BR>
muck about<BR>
>with.<BR>
<BR>
The Civil War would also make an interesting multi-player wargame.  I don't<BR>
think that it would be manageable at the scale of Fifth Frontier War.  I<BR>
envision it having some of the feeling of Kingmaker.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:21:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:  (You *really* think I should?  Okay then...)  Just what *was* that <BR>
> ceremonial drink the natives just gave you...<BR>
<BR>
In one of the books in his "Matador" series (good SF!), Steve Perry has<BR>
a character learning bartending. The recipe for a "Shin's Kiss" is<BR>
given. All I recall is that one of the ingredients involves that yellow<BR>
liquid you mentioned...<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of the Matador books, has anyone ever created a Traveller<BR>
version of the spetsdod?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:27:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Apparently the skin of the Hindenberg used a brand new doping compound made<BR>
> up of a mixture of Iron Oxide and Aluminium Oxide. (Not far different to the<BR>
> fuel formula for the space shuttles solid rocket boosters) In other words<BR>
> the hull was coated in rocket fuel! Woops!<BR>
<BR>
No, that's *quite* a ways from rocket fuel. But it's damn close to<BR>
*thermite*. A well know incendiary compound that is sometimes used to<BR>
"instantly" weld railroad tracks. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:10:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 09:53 AM 9/19/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Ah. "Peer pressure" applied via high speed application of knuckles...<BR>
>:-) <BR>
<BR>
In OSUT, we had one guy who refused to shower.  Seriously, he'd only shower<BR>
when there was nobody else in the latrine, which wasn't often.  Guy<BR>
couldn't even get dressed without hiding in his wall locker.<BR>
<BR>
So one night we clean him.  With floor brushes and powdered cleaner.  He<BR>
kept fighting and cursing until he saw one troop plugging in the floor<BR>
buffer, at which point there was an unconditional surrender and agreement<BR>
to shower with the rest of us on the same schedule.  Had he kept it up, we<BR>
were going to wax his ass.  Literally.<BR>
<BR>
Then of course came the night we crushed SSG Colom's Smokey hat, and spent<BR>
the next three hours doing PT...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Embrace Fascism.    The uniforms look cool<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:25:11 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon? INCLUDES RSB SPOILERS<BR>
<BR>
> More than likely, actually, yes. =) Still, whatever caused the Black<BR>
> Curtain could be around as early as the 5FW... or even earlier if it was<BR>
> caused by one of Grandfather's toys.  I hate casting aside most subtle<BR>
plot<BR>
> twists like this. =)<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps I was jumping to conclusions, but the TNE rules seemed to 'strongly<BR>
imply' that the Black Curtain was a Viral phenomenon. Ships that go in get<BR>
infected/eaten/shot down by whatever big nasty bad guy is in there.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU (the history I developed for the PBeM) the Black Curtain is a group of<BR>
*really* gribbly Puppeteer strains, carving out an empire for themselves.<BR>
It's only defeated after a bloody war fought by the Regency and Reformation<BR>
Coalition combined. (After which, the Star Vikings leave known space, etc<BR>
etc)<BR>
<BR>
> This is a surprise.  I didn't imagine Longbow could detect psionic<BR>
> signals.  That must mark a rather unusual turn in 3I technology... or is<BR>
> that partly what those two chartered and secret psionics institutes were<BR>
> studying?<BR>
<BR>
According to the Refs Only library data in the RSB, LONGBOW had by that<BR>
point become an umbrella organisation for a large number of long-range<BR>
observation projects, focussed on the Zhodani, including smaller versions<BR>
of the original Longbow array, located well outside the borders of the<BR>
Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
A reference is made to the 'duty relay psion' at the Longbow point, who<BR>
received the image of the Empress, and projected it into Emperor Strephon's<BR>
mind. Whether the Imperium was using psions merely for data-transfer, or<BR>
for actual observation, is left up to the referee.<BR>
<BR>
> Yet why would Strephon go to a Longbow station himself?<BR>
<BR>
In this case, because several of the deep-penetration Longbow stations had<BR>
gone silent, implying some sort of approaching danger to the Imperium. (A<BR>
pretty hokey excuse, IMO. If each station was a subsector apart (which is a<BR>
lot closer than I'd imagine they were) then there'd be about thirty years<BR>
between each one going down, as the wave is a lightspeed phenomenon. If<BR>
three stations had gone down, that would have taken sixty years, or two<BR>
hundred and forty years if they were a sector appart. What's the hurry?)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Argh... as someone else said, so many mysteries, so little clues.  It<BR>
would<BR>
> be nice to see some canon mysteries again.. which we have a hope of<BR>
> discovering the answers to!  =) Then again, they did that with the<BR>
> Ancients, and look what happened...<BR>
<BR>
Well, in G:T, what happened to Dulinor? Was the shuttle explosion an<BR>
accident? Yeah, right....<BR>
<BR>
Interdimensional time police? <g><BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:28:12 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
> I gather from some source (which I know cannot recall) that the<BR>
inspiration<BR>
> behind<BR>
> the Wave was basically just coming up with an explanation for the<BR>
empress-figure<BR>
> on the TNE rulebook cover, which is kind of silly...<BR>
> Bruce<BR>
<BR>
Actually, that's just daft enough that I'd believe it was true.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:40:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Belief systems...<BR>
<BR>
> >There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product.<BR>
><BR>
>   <ahem>  And High Guard is from what "version" of Traveller, hmm?<BR>
<BR>
I've played High Guard in a TNE setting.<BR>
<BR>
(And let me tell you, it's a bugger converting all those FFS designs to<BR>
Book 5...)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:14:05 +0100<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: Trade Route Colours<BR>
<BR>
I am currently working on new routines for Heaven & Earth which allows the<BR>
user to generate trade routes for sectors in accordance with GURPS Traveller<BR>
Far Trade rules.<BR>
<BR>
Are there any conventions for the colour of trade routes? If so, could<BR>
someone please confirm what they are?<BR>
<BR>
I need to know if there are set colours for the following routes:-<BR>
<BR>
Minor, Feeder, Main, Major, Super, X-Boat.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in anticipation.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3070<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3071</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/19/00 2:22:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 19 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3071<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liqu id Hydrogen)<BR>
Sounds like...<BR>
Re: TNE Canon? INCLUDES RSB SPOILERS<BR>
Re: needless pedantry<BR>
Re:  Empress Wave<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
Re: Trade Route Colours<BR>
Re:  Empress Wave<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
Re: Trade Route Colours<BR>
Re: Hindenberg<BR>
Favor<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:17:36 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
Leonard wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> No, that's *quite* a ways from rocket fuel. But it's damn close to<BR>
> *thermite*. A well know incendiary compound that is sometimes used to<BR>
> "instantly" weld railroad tracks. <BR>
> <BR>
That would have been powdered aluminum and iron oxide, which burns to<BR>
make aluminum oxide and iron. Welding rails involves a mold to contain the<BR>
molten iron which runs off from the thermite burn.<BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:37:44 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
>Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>There are whispered hints of such unholiness scattered throughout the<BR>
>canon. Look carefully at the tales of the Abyss Rift in Lanth Subsector.<BR>
><BR>
>Indeed, I recommend a Traveller/Call of Cthulhu crossover.  Why settle for<BR>
>the lesser evil?<BR>
><BR>
>- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
	I always thought that it might be a fun little mind-f**k to run as a<BR>
convention game:  Set it up as a pretty standard "Rich dad hires team to<BR>
rescue kidnapped child" adventure, but the farther and deeper the party<BR>
gets, the weirder things become.  The trick is to keep them from sussing out<BR>
what is really going on and to keep them chasing their proverbial tails<BR>
(well, literal, if they are Aslan or Vargr) with explanations of 'psionic<BR>
powers' and 'strange alien races' before hitting them with the climax of the<BR>
adventure, when they finally figure out what game they are really playing.<BR>
	It was only lack of time and images of being lynched by a rampaging<BR>
mob of rabid hard-scifi players that kept me from actually doing it.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:44:31 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
Ah, the X-boat pilot who claimed something was trying to get in from<BR>
jumpspace ...<BR>
<BR>
- --- "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote:<BR>
> >From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
> ><BR>
> >Might I also recommend a Traveller/Dark Conspiracy crossover.  You<BR>
> see,<BR>
> jumpspace is actually a >series of proto-dimensions, and the folks<BR>
> there are<BR>
> getting tired of starships barging through, >upsetting the order of<BR>
> things.<BR>
> Time to get even ...<BR>
> <BR>
> There are whispered hints of such unholiness scattered throughout the<BR>
> canon.<BR>
> Look carefully at the tales of the Abyss Rift in Lanth Subsector.<BR>
> <BR>
> Indeed, I recommend a Traveller/Call of Cthulhu crossover.  Why<BR>
> settle for<BR>
> the lesser evil?<BR>
> <BR>
> --Glenn<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:50:50 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
"Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I can't hold it in any longer; since the British Government decreed<BR>
> that alcopops were bad for the nations 'yoof' and more-or-less<BR>
> regulated them out of kiddies pocketmoney range,<BR>
<BR>
Alcopops???  Are we talking sweet things like bottled wine <BR>
coolers, or beercicles?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:55:58 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liqu id Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making<BR>
>Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Apparently the skin of the Hindenberg used a brand new doping compound<BR>
>> made up of a mixture of Iron Oxide and Aluminium Oxide. (Not far <BR>
>> different to the fuel formula for the space shuttles solid rocket<BR>
>> boosters) In other words the hull was coated in rocket fuel! Woops!<BR>
<BR>
>No, that's *quite* a ways from rocket fuel. But it's damn close to<BR>
>*thermite*. A well know incendiary compound that is sometimes used to<BR>
>"instantly" weld railroad tracks. <BR>
<BR>
	Wellll..... If it were aluminum oxide, it wouldn't do anything.<BR>
Thermite is a mix of aluminum metal and iron oxide, and burns when the<BR>
aluminum oxidizes by stripping the oxygen away from the iron, leaving<BR>
aluminum oxide, molten iron, and a hell of a lot of heat.  This is why it<BR>
also burns underwater, as the mixture brings its own oxygen with it.<BR>
	There was another thread a few digests ago where someone mentioned<BR>
gunpowder and air - gunpowder doesn't need air for the same reason, it has<BR>
it's own source of oxygen:  saltpeter.  Without the potassium nitrate, the<BR>
charcoal and sulfur would just make a slow, messy, smelly barbecue.  Add a<BR>
chemical that breaks down with heat to produce oxygen, and you have a mix<BR>
that evolves into a gas fast enough to drive a bullet down a barrel in the<BR>
manner we all know and love.  75% of gunpowder, by weight, is KNO3, by the<BR>
way; you need a whole lot of old manure to keep a TL4 army in the<BR>
field...and I don't mean from the politicians.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:55:13 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Sounds like...<BR>
<BR>
>In the Battletech universe they were called "The Clans".<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the correct term is "Munchkin Bait."<BR>
<BR>
"3050 Tech is for Mama's boys and NAIS grads."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:05:51 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon? INCLUDES RSB SPOILERS<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, in G:T, what happened to Dulinor? Was the shuttle explosion an<BR>
> accident? Yeah, right....<BR>
> <BR>
> Interdimensional time police? <g><BR>
<BR>
My theory is that one of the die-hard CT fans on this list will freeze<BR>
himself and set the low berth to wake him up in time to make his way to<BR>
Capital and plant the bomb himself, thereby preventing the rebellion and<BR>
subsequent heretical events.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:10:00 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: needless pedantry<BR>
<BR>
At 11:43 AM -0500 9/19/00, Steve Lieb wrote:<BR>
>This may be pedantic, but shouldn't we be well into volume 2000 of the<BR>
>digest, instead of volume 1999?<BR>
><BR>
>OK, not maybe: it is.<BR>
<BR>
As opposed to "needful" pendantry?  Of course that comment itself<BR>
was needless pedantry, wasn't it.  (D'oh!  :-)<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:10:20 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re:  Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> A few things we know about the Empress Wave:<BR>
> <BR>
> It is not "baddies from the core (Primordials or Sparklers)."  Regency<BR>
> Sourcebook, page 85 makes that abundantly clear - which is good,<BR>
> because after re-reading DGP's write-up in MTJ4 I wouldn't like that<BR>
> story line one iota.<BR>
<BR>
What didn't you like about it?  It sounded very cool to me.  <BR>
<BR>
OTOH, the Empress Wave seemed like yet another cheap way to <BR>
destroy yet more of the fascinating old CT/MT setting and replace it <BR>
with the ruins and barbarians that the TNE designers seemed to <BR>
be so fond of.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:13:44 -0700<BR>
From: Jim Cooper <tloql@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I am currently working on the Astron, Theta Boriallis(sp), and the Fulani but I have used the alternative system for sector generation from the "Galactic" program, fewer 0 pop high tech worlds that way.<g> I used the dot map locations and generated the data.<BR>
<BR>
As I am (slowly) trying to work on the Iykaiser (Theron) sector, would you be interested in sharing thoughts as you go along.<BR>
<BR>
Jim Cooper<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:20:13 -0500<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Trade Route Colours<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I am currently working on new routines for Heaven & Earth which allows the<BR>
> user to generate trade routes for sectors in accordance with GURPS Traveller<BR>
> Far Trade rules.<BR>
><BR>
> Are there any conventions for the colour of trade routes? If so, could<BR>
> someone please confirm what they are?<BR>
><BR>
> I need to know if there are set colours for the following routes:-<BR>
><BR>
> Minor, Feeder, Main, Major, Super, X-Boat.<BR>
<BR>
    Might I suggest you use colors compatible with Terry Mixon's "Spinward<BR>
Marches Trade Map"?<BR>
    http://www.ghg.net/tmixon/Trade/<BR>
<BR>
    This would allow us to duplicate the work as desired.  BTW, how's work<BR>
coming on those GURPS Traveller First In fixes?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:33:29 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
Sparklers -- Peaceful, god-like aliens misunderstood by humanity and<BR>
thus needlessly attacked.  After sterilizing a few dozen worlds and<BR>
vaporizing several thousand warships, the Sparklers and humans realize<BR>
it was all just a sad mistake, make happy and go on about their<BR>
business.<BR>
<BR>
The aliens sound far too much like the New Age concept of benevolent,<BR>
misunderstood, angelic Grays (I know they look like furry cinamon<BR>
rolls).  That alone is enough to make me quell.<BR>
<BR>
The whole concept just rubs me the wrong way, is all.<BR>
<BR>
Empress Wave, OTOH, was mysterious enough that it could be worked into<BR>
a campaign from a number of different angles -- there was never really<BR>
much pinned down by GDW to make it go one way or another.  Albeit, on<BR>
closer inspection even EW has some major problems -- it just doesn't<BR>
roil me as viscerally as the Primordials.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
> Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > A few things we know about the Empress Wave:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > It is not "baddies from the core (Primordials or Sparklers)." <BR>
> Regency<BR>
> > Sourcebook, page 85 makes that abundantly clear - which is good,<BR>
> > because after re-reading DGP's write-up in MTJ4 I wouldn't like<BR>
> that<BR>
> > story line one iota.<BR>
> <BR>
> What didn't you like about it?  It sounded very cool to me.  <BR>
> <BR>
> OTOH, the Empress Wave seemed like yet another cheap way to <BR>
> destroy yet more of the fascinating old CT/MT setting and replace it <BR>
> with the ruins and barbarians that the TNE designers seemed to <BR>
> be so fond of.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:43:20 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
<BR>
Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com [mailto:simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com]<BR>
> > Sent: 19 September 2000 10:00 To: traveller@lists.ient.com Subject:<BR>
> > Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Perhaps the best way to introduce campaign-shattering events<BR>
> > would be to provide them as alternate timeline sourcebooks. If<BR>
> > the Rebellion era had been presented as an alternate timeline<BR>
> > sourcebook I can't see anyone complaining about it. The same<BR>
> > goes for the Virus. Similarly providing the 'Empress Wave'/'Invasion<BR>
> > from the Core' material provided as an alternate timeline would be<BR>
> > very cool. I'd be interested in seeing other ideas presented in this<BR>
> > way too.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed<BR>
 <BR>
> <snip> <BR>
> <BR>
> > Any other ideas?<BR>
> <BR>
> At GenCon UK I briefly talked to Andy Lilly about an idea for an<BR>
> alternate post rebellion setting.<BR>
<BR>
<snip> <BR>
<BR>
I *love* this idea, consider it borrowed for my next Traveller Game!<BR>
<BR>
As long as we're talking about such things, how about a <BR>
Traveller/Conspiracy X Crossover.  Conspiracy X is a modern day <BR>
game where earth is secretly being visited by psychic Greys <BR>
Saurians (disguised high tech reptilian humanoids), and nanotech <BR>
using near transcendent beings (Atlanteans).<BR>
<BR>
OK, the Greys are clearly the ancients, and while most destroyed <BR>
themselves many millenia ago, the remainder are obviously still <BR>
messing around secretly in the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
The Saurians are high-tech invaders who use their advanced tech <BR>
(perhaps TL 19 with transport tech limited to TL 17 (no portals) & <BR>
computers/robots limited to TL 16) who wish to dominate the <BR>
Solomani sphere from within.  Given that they can appear to be <BR>
literally *anybody* and can pass any medical identity check getting <BR>
into positions of power is easy. Observers may have noticed that <BR>
the Solomani sphere has been getting more repressive and warlike <BR>
for the past century, but no one knows the true reason...<BR>
<BR>
The Atlanteans have access to nano-technology and many similar <BR>
wonders.  The Ancients also had such technology, but the <BR>
Atlanteans have systematically destroyed any evidence of it on all <BR>
Ancient sights they can find.  They also work secretly to discredit <BR>
anyone working on nanotech or advanced genetic engineering.  <BR>
Basically, the Atlanteans are the reason no one else in the <BR>
Traveller universe has any of these technologies.  <BR>
<BR>
While they are few in number (although all of them are practically <BR>
immortal and possess great power) they are the secret masters of <BR>
the Imperium, the Vargr, Aslan, and the K'Kree.  The Hivers either <BR>
suspect their presence and secretly work agains them, or are their <BR>
client-allies.   <BR>
<BR>
Investigating the "accidental" destruction of a lab belonging to a <BR>
scientist who was working on nanotech, or exploring an ancient <BR>
site which had evidence of some unknown form of technology <BR>
which mysteriously vanished shortly after the authorities arrived on <BR>
the scene could put the PCs on the trail of a really big mystery...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:45:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Trade Route Colours<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris writes:<BR>
> I am currently working on new routines for Heaven & Earth which allows the<BR>
> user to generate trade routes for sectors in accordance with GURPS<BR>
> Traveller Far Trade rules.<BR>
> <BR>
> Are there any conventions for the colour of trade routes? If so, could<BR>
> someone please confirm what they are?<BR>
<BR>
There aren't really.  Terry Mixon uses black for 12, blue for 11, green for<BR>
10, blue-green for 9, purplish for 8, red for X-boat; OTOH, I find his maps<BR>
almost unreadable.  My trade maps don't use color for trade routes at all --<BR>
they vary in thickness depending on size.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:12:09 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>
> Possible analogies in Traveller. A crystal iron hull not manufactured<BR>
> properly, decrystallising under stress. This would not make the crew very<BR>
> happy.<BR>
<BR>
"General Products Customer Service, how may I help you?"<BR>
<BR>
"My General Products hull just failed."<BR>
<BR>
"!!!"<BR>
<BR>
 ...<BR>
<BR>
"Ah, I see. We had no idea there was antimatter available in such quantity <BR>
anywhere in Known Space."<BR>
<BR>
"Antimatter?"<BR>
<BR>
- -- "Flatlander", Larry Niven<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:28:50 -0500<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: Favor<BR>
<BR>
Gentles:<BR>
<BR>
I need someone with a scanner to make a copy of any and all illustrations<BR>
of the Hlana Saka (Challenge 52) and e-mail them to SJ Games art director,<BR>
Phil Reed at phil@sjgames.com.<BR>
<BR>
This is for Alien Races 4, in case you're interested.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:31:20 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
> It is not "baddies from the core (Primordials or Sparklers)."  Regency<BR>
> Sourcebook, page 85 makes that abundantly clear - which is good,<BR>
> because after re-reading DGP's write-up in MTJ4 I wouldn't like that<BR>
> story line one iota.<BR>
<BR>
OK, I'm curious.  I don't believe I've ever heard about the Primordials or<BR>
Sparklers.  What book are they in?!?!  Are they in MTJ4 or is the Empress<BR>
Wave?<BR>
<BR>
Now if I could just figure out where that copy of MTJ4 I bought about 4<BR>
years ago is.  Not sure I ever got around to looking at it!<BR>
<BR>
			Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:33:06 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
> liquid you mentioned...<BR>
><BR>
> Speaking of the Matador books, has anyone ever created a Traveller<BR>
> version of the spetsdod?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Great space opera.  My one claim to fame is to be in the acknowledgements of<BR>
'Black Steel'.  Steve and I discussed to spetsdod at length.  I think I have<BR>
a trav version somewhere.  Have to do some searching for you.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:41:47 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> > Apparently the skin of the Hindenberg used a brand new doping compound<BR>
made<BR>
> > up of a mixture of Iron Oxide and Aluminium Oxide. (Not far different to<BR>
the<BR>
> > fuel formula for the space shuttles solid rocket boosters) In other<BR>
words<BR>
> > the hull was coated in rocket fuel! Woops!<BR>
><BR>
> No, that's *quite* a ways from rocket fuel. But it's damn close to<BR>
> *thermite*. A well know incendiary compound that is sometimes used to<BR>
> "instantly" weld railroad tracks.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
Thermite exactly (except for a starter). Nothing like molten elemental iron<BR>
to liven up the party.  US artillery units always carry thermites grenade to<BR>
destroy the tube if necessary.  Also a key ingrediant in the eagle cocktail<BR>
(along with napalm).  Place a bag of gasoline mixed with m4 fuel thickener<BR>
with a thermite grenade in an armored vehicle.  The thermite burnes a nice<BR>
hole in the hull, allowing flaming napalm to run into the vehicle.  Not<BR>
nice.<BR>
<BR>
In my misspent youth as a chemist, I made many a thermite incendiary and<BR>
burned holes in old cars, concrete, asphalt, etc.  Those were the days.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:45:39 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> In OSUT, we had one guy who refused to shower.  Seriously, he'd only<BR>
shower<BR>
> when there was nobody else in the latrine, which wasn't often.  Guy<BR>
> couldn't even get dressed without hiding in his wall locker.<BR>
><BR>
> So one night we clean him.  With floor brushes and powdered cleaner.  He<BR>
> kept fighting and cursing until he saw one troop plugging in the floor<BR>
> buffer, at which point there was an unconditional surrender and agreement<BR>
> to shower with the rest of us on the same schedule.  Had he kept it up, we<BR>
> were going to wax his ass.  Literally.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Does this happen in every training cycle? 1980, Ft. Benning, Harmony church.<BR>
Same scenario, same tools. Do you ever miss the roaches scuttling out of the<BR>
showers when you turn on the lights?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:48:01 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> That would have been powdered aluminum and iron oxide, which burns to<BR>
> make aluminum oxide and iron. Welding rails involves a mold to contain the<BR>
> molten iron which runs off from the thermite burn.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
You are darn right.  I should have read the earlier post more carefully.<BR>
Just how many former (or current) mad bomber are there on this list, anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:57:27 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> ObTrav.  Is there any standardization in the 3I with regard to computer<BR>
> technology?  Will apps written for a LSP computer run on another vendor's<BR>
> box.  Does any one megacorp dominate the hardware or software industry of<BR>
> the 3?<BR>
> <BR>
> An why has there been so little computer progress in in several thousand<BR>
> years, anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Well, there is a dominating standard that has over 99% of the market<BR>
share.<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, the owner of this standard is a Vilani megacorp...<BR>
<BR>
More serious answer follows below:<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, there is no single dominating standard, but most systems come<BR>
pretty close. Since all systems have to be customized for individual<BR>
uses anyway, a modular system for developing programs has appeared.<BR>
Various corporations create different modules. Since they all<BR>
interconnect, progress is slower than one might expect.<BR>
<handwave>Besides, the technological limits slows progress after an<BR>
initial burst of computer evolution.</handwave><BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:01:50 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Wellll..... If it were aluminum oxide, it wouldn't do anything.<BR>
> Thermite is a mix of aluminum metal and iron oxide, and burns when the<BR>
> aluminum oxidizes by stripping the oxygen away from the iron, leaving<BR>
> aluminum oxide, molten iron, and a hell of a lot of heat.  This is why it<BR>
> also burns underwater, as the mixture brings its own oxygen with it.<BR>
<BR>
Well, oxidation technically doesn't require the presence of oxygen. Remember<BR>
LEO roars GER? (Loss of electrons: oxidation, gain of electrons: reduction).<BR>
Aluminum loses electrons (is oxidized), iron oxide is reduced.<BR>
<BR>
Fe2O3+2Al  -> 2Fe + Al2O3 + heat<BR>
<BR>
Ah, stoicheometry, how I miss you.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:02:10 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
> Alcopops???  Are we talking sweet things like bottled wine<BR>
> coolers, or beercicles?<BR>
<BR>
Alcopops taste more or less like softdrinks, but are above 10% alcohol.<BR>
Can you see the problem with young teenagers drinking the stuff? I<BR>
can...<BR>
<BR>
I would not be surprised if it is mostly a European thing.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:04:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> > > Apparently the skin of the Hindenberg used a brand new doping compound<BR>
> made<BR>
> > > up of a mixture of Iron Oxide and Aluminium Oxide. (Not far different<BR>
to<BR>
> the<BR>
> > > fuel formula for the space shuttles solid rocket boosters) In other<BR>
> words<BR>
> > > the hull was coated in rocket fuel! Woops!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > No, that's *quite* a ways from rocket fuel. But it's damn close to<BR>
> > *thermite*. A well know incendiary compound that is sometimes used to<BR>
> > "instantly" weld railroad tracks.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> Thermite exactly (except for a starter).<BR>
<BR>
Oops.  Make that Iron oxide and elemental aluminum.  I should know better.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:46:39 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
<BR>
At 01:45 PM 9/19/00 -0700, Tod wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Does this happen in every training cycle? 1980, Ft. Benning, Harmony church.<BR>
>Same scenario, same tools. Do you ever miss the roaches scuttling out of the<BR>
>showers when you turn on the lights?<BR>
<BR>
Was at same Place, two years later.<BR>
<BR>
Do I miss the non-airconditioned TL 5 barracks in the middle of a Georgia<BR>
summer?<BR>
<BR>
Nope.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3071<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 19 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3072<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
Re: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
Re: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
Re: 2 Things<BR>
Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
RE: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
Re: Alternate Imperia<BR>
RE: A Techie question regarding High Guard<BR>
RE: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: TNE Canon?<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
RE: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3069<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Peer Pressure<BR>
Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:09:23 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> > An why has there been so little computer progress in in several thousand<BR>
> > years, anyway?<BR>
><BR>
> Well, there is a dominating standard that has over 99% of the market<BR>
> share.<BR>
><BR>
> Unfortunately, the owner of this standard is a Vilani megacorp...<BR>
><BR>
> More serious answer follows below:<BR>
><BR>
> IMTU, there is no single dominating standard, but most systems come<BR>
> pretty close. Since all systems have to be customized for individual<BR>
> uses anyway, a modular system for developing programs has appeared.<BR>
> Various corporations create different modules. Since they all<BR>
> interconnect, progress is slower than one might expect.<BR>
> <handwave>Besides, the technological limits slows progress after an<BR>
> initial burst of computer evolution.</handwave><BR>
<BR>
Along the same lines:  If Vilani are now highly influencial in the 3I, and<BR>
the Vilani are very conservative culturally, why does TL in the rim<BR>
(canonically) lag the Imperium? I've always thought that the Solomani, with<BR>
their more adventurous bent and willingness to adopt new ideas, along with<BR>
the more highly competitive nature of the Confederation, should have the<BR>
technological lead.  What is the rationale?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:49:38 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
<BR>
At 10:57 PM 9/19/00 +0200, some fellow from Sweden wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> An why has there been so little computer progress in in several thousand<BR>
>> years, anyway?<BR>
><BR>
>Well, there is a dominating standard that has over 99% of the market<BR>
>share.<BR>
><BR>
>Unfortunately, the owner of this standard is a Vilani megacorp...<BR>
<BR>
The owner's name wouldn't happen to be "Vill" would it?<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=14><BIG><BIG><BIG><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:18:14 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
<BR>
> >Does this happen in every training cycle? 1980, Ft. Benning, Harmony<BR>
church.<BR>
> >Same scenario, same tools. Do you ever miss the roaches scuttling out of<BR>
the<BR>
> >showers when you turn on the lights?<BR>
><BR>
> Was at same Place, two years later.<BR>
><BR>
> Do I miss the non-airconditioned TL 5 barracks in the middle of a Georgia<BR>
> summer?<BR>
><BR>
> Nope.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah.  1980.  Hottest summer in recorded history (at the time, anyway).  We<BR>
spit shined our shoes for graduation, and the polish melted in the heat.<BR>
I'm told that some people live down there by choice.  i guess you have to<BR>
like cudzu, steam heat and red clay.  I did find the daily 2 minute rain<BR>
storm amusing.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav.  Does the 3I military pick similar lovely places to train troops?<BR>
Are there any 'canon' posts like Benning where basic trainees are sent?<BR>
Many post were established in the US south post civil war.  Are there<BR>
similar concentrations of military posts in the Solomani rim post rim war?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:25:01 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Along the same lines:  If Vilani are now highly influencial in the 3I, and<BR>
> the Vilani are very conservative culturally, why does TL in the rim<BR>
> (canonically) lag the Imperium? I've always thought that the Solomani, with<BR>
> their more adventurous bent and willingness to adopt new ideas, along with<BR>
> the more highly competitive nature of the Confederation, should have the<BR>
> technological lead.  What is the rationale?<BR>
<BR>
Probably because in the last interstellar war, the Imperium ripped out the<BR>
guts of the Confederation.  The average TL of the solomani rim is still higher<BR>
than the vast majority of the imperium, despite being the site of a major war.<BR>
<BR>
Also, Solomani culture is still very different from ISW-era terran.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:28:50 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
<BR>
> >Well, there is a dominating standard that has over 99% of the market<BR>
> >share.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Unfortunately, the owner of this standard is a Vilani megacorp...<BR>
> <BR>
> The owner's name wouldn't happen to be "Vill" would it?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Nah.  His name is Bigaagashirera Gabigaag<BR>
<BR>
(Courtesy of Vilani by Lonnie http://tribble.dreamhost.com/vilani.html)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:31:11 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
<BR>
> >Does this happen in every training cycle? 1980, Ft. Benning, Harmony church.<BR>
> >Same scenario, same tools. Do you ever miss the roaches scuttling out of the<BR>
> >showers when you turn on the lights?<BR>
> <BR>
> Was at same Place, two years later.<BR>
> <BR>
> Do I miss the non-airconditioned TL 5 barracks in the middle of a Georgia<BR>
> summer?<BR>
><BR>
> Nope.<BR>
<BR>
I've a theory on this.  I think the Military grows the roaches on purpose. <BR>
I was in Orlando, FL in the summer of '86.  I'd never seen a Roach in my<BR>
life.  Those suckers were huge and all over.  I've only rarely seen roaches<BR>
since, and never that big (even at other places in Orlando).<BR>
<BR>
			Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:46:19 -0400<BR>
From: Eric Freitas <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 2 Things<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but follow some of the links once you have it on InterTran.  Some of<BR>
the translations are capable of keyboard kills..<BR>
<BR>
         "Eye of the Beholder"  in Hugarian becomes "Liver of the Beholder" in<BR>
English..<BR>
<BR>
At 13:40 8/31/00 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>I ran it through InterTran<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran<BR>
><BR>
>And didn't see any obvious GDW game names or references.<BR>
>--<BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:56:10 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making<BR>
>Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
><BR>
>You are darn right.  I should have read the earlier post more carefully.<BR>
>Just how many former (or current) mad bomber are there on this list,<BR>
>anyway?<BR>
<BR>
	<sheepishly raises hand>  "So I said:  'Yeah baby! Yeah! Yeah!<BR>
Evil's all right in my book! Bwa-haa-haaa!" (Obligatory Tick reference)<BR>
<BR>
	In a similar thread from a different list, someone once hypothesised<BR>
that most chemists first become interested in their field either through a<BR>
fondness for explosives or for drugs.  Since reading and imagination alter<BR>
my consciousness quite enough for my taste, thank you, that leaves only an<BR>
unhealthy attraction to the rapid decomposition of certain nitrogen-bearing<BR>
compounds.<BR>
	Actually, I had an excuse for some of it - there was the time in<BR>
high school when I was helping the chemistry teacher test out the formula<BR>
for nitrogen tri-iodide to see if it would work with the chemicals we had in<BR>
stock (yes, I was a geek).  It did, and anyone walking through the<BR>
math/science building that evening would have heard a succession of loud<BR>
*bangs* interspersed by two supposedly mature individuals giggling like<BR>
Bedlamites.<BR>
	Or the time I worked for the University and had to do some demos for<BR>
some high school students...I thought thermite would make a nifty and<BR>
impressive demonstration of oxidation and reduction.  By the way - if you<BR>
use powdered magnesium instead of aluminum, it puts out less energy as heat,<BR>
but far more as light - makes for a more impressive demo.<BR>
	As for the rest of it...well....let's just say that no one got hurt,<BR>
no property was damaged, I still have all my fingers, and it has been a<BR>
couple turns of the statute of limitations.<BR>
<BR>
	p.s.  Don't ever try to make nitrogen tri-iodide.  It is a primary<BR>
high explosive, and so unstable that the stresses induced by drying can be<BR>
enough to cause it to detonate.  I understand that nearly every year a<BR>
couple of kids manage to blow themselves up in their basements making this<BR>
stuff.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>Well, oxidation technically doesn't require the presence of oxygen.<BR>
>Remember LEO roars GER? <BR>
><BR>
	Oh good lords but does that bring back memories.  :o)<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:02 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <008a01c021dc$1fe69220$0e092ecb@theroc><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Please... I am not a penguin.<BR>
<BR>
I am CoedArianese... I come from a nice warm planet in a system a sector <BR>
or so spinward of the Spinward Marches. We have large pointy ears and good <BR>
low light vision but are otherwise more or less humanoid. In reference to <BR>
some ancient mythology I have never understood some people call us <BR>
'elves'.<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
PS. What IS a penguin?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:02 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <LPBBKCIHNNEPMFBAMOCNGEGDDHAA.Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Given what has been said of this 'Empress Wave' I am quite certain that it <BR>
will have no place whatsoever in my TRAVELLER universe!<BR>
<BR>
Who else feels it's totally irrelevant to the timeline in their universe?<BR>
<BR>
Personally, this kind of, erm, I was going to say global but obviously the <BR>
scope is a bit wider than that :-), well, large-scale sweeping event is <BR>
something I don't particularly want. In particular I resent it being <BR>
foisted upon folk as a 'this is what is taking place' rather than <BR>
presented as an option should you want a galaxy-wide disaster for your <BR>
players to cope with. Hey, my players ARE a galaxy-wide disaster...<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:02 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <B5ECC824.A6A%webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
As a relative newcomer to the TRAVELLER mailing list, what is the Grand <BR>
Survey mailing list?<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:12:06 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alternate Imperia<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:21:01 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
> From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
> <BR>
> Might I also recommend a Traveller/Dark Conspiracy crossover.  You see,<BR>
> jumpspace is actually a series of proto-dimensions, and the folks there<BR>
> are getting tired of starships barging through, upsetting the order of<BR>
> things.  Time to get even ...<BR>
<BR>
A couple years ago several of us on the TML developed an "illuminated<BR>
Traveller" grand-conspiracy theory which, among other outlandish elements,<BR>
posited that jumpspace is an artifact, a pocket dimension created by<BR>
Yaskodray as an instantaneous psionic communications medium.  Since then,<BR>
various other psionic races have discovered it, and some have partially<BR>
"moved in".  And while some are annoyed by the ships popping in and out,<BR>
others consider it very nice of us to deliver such tasty food...<BR>
<BR>
(I don't know if anyone ever collected and organized the whole sprawling<BR>
mess...if so, where is it?  I could go on for pages with this stuff, and<BR>
I'm sure I'm forgetting more than half of what we came up with.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:30:23 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: RE: A Techie question regarding High Guard<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >The next feature is going to be an option for charging for <BR>
 >turrets and hardpoints (like book 2). Now I can take the costs for<BR>
 >laser, <BR>
 >missile and sandcaster turrets and hardpoints from book two; but what<BR>
 >do <BR>
 >people think should be the cost for energy weapon and PA turrets? <BR>
 >Currently I'm leaning towards Cr500,000 for a single Energy turret, <BR>
 >Cr1,000,000 for a dual energy turret, Cr1,500,000 for a PA barbette and<BR>
 ><BR>
 >Cr1,000,000 for a PA turret.<BR>
<BR>
Looks pretty good to me.  Now would-be merchant princes have something <BR>
else to save their money for.  No rotten vegetables coming at you from this<BR>
flank.    :)<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:30:24 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
<BR>
>> > An why has there been so little computer progress in in several<BR>
thousand<BR>
>> > years, anyway?<BR>
>><BR>
>> Well, there is a dominating standard that has over 99% of the market<BR>
>> share.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Unfortunately, the owner of this standard is a Vilani megacorp...<BR>
>><BR>
>> More serious answer follows below:<BR>
>><BR>
>> IMTU, there is no single dominating standard, but most systems come<BR>
>> pretty close. Since all systems have to be customized for individual<BR>
>> uses anyway, a modular system for developing programs has appeared.<BR>
>> Various corporations create different modules. Since they all<BR>
>> interconnect, progress is slower than one might expect.<BR>
>> <handwave>Besides, the technological limits slows progress after an<BR>
>> initial burst of computer evolution.</handwave><BR>
><BR>
>Along the same lines:  If Vilani are now highly influencial in the 3I, and<BR>
>the Vilani are very conservative culturally, why does TL in the rim<BR>
>(canonically) lag the Imperium? I've always thought that the Solomani, with<BR>
>their more adventurous bent and willingness to adopt new ideas, along with<BR>
>the more highly competitive nature of the Confederation, should have the<BR>
>technological lead.  What is the rationale?<BR>
><BR>
>Tod<BR>
<BR>
I was under the impression that the Solomani Confederation worlds were of a<BR>
more uniform TL than the Imperium. Uniformly GTL10 I believe. On the other<BR>
hand I can easily see the repressive government of the Confederation acting<BR>
as an impediment to technological progress. Compound that with willingness<BR>
among the party run government to ignore advances discovered or built by<BR>
members of the "inferior" mongrel humans and non human species and it is<BR>
easy to see why the confederation doesn't have a technological edge.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:44:05 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
They're in MJT4.  DGP was ditching Traveller and decided to wrap<BR>
everything up in that issue of the magazine.<BR>
<BR>
- --- healyzh@aracnet.com wrote:<BR>
> > It is not "baddies from the core (Primordials or Sparklers)." <BR>
> Regency<BR>
> > Sourcebook, page 85 makes that abundantly clear - which is good,<BR>
> > because after re-reading DGP's write-up in MTJ4 I wouldn't like<BR>
> that<BR>
> > story line one iota.<BR>
> <BR>
> OK, I'm curious.  I don't believe I've ever heard about the<BR>
> Primordials or<BR>
> Sparklers.  What book are they in?!?!  Are they in MTJ4 or is the<BR>
> Empress<BR>
> Wave?<BR>
> <BR>
> Now if I could just figure out where that copy of MTJ4 I bought about<BR>
> 4<BR>
> years ago is.  Not sure I ever got around to looking at it!<BR>
> <BR>
> 			Zane<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:46:03 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon?<BR>
<BR>
At 9:54 -0400 19/9/00, Jonathan McDermo wrote:<BR>
>This is a surprise.  I didn't imagine Longbow could detect psionic<BR>
>signals.  That must mark a rather unusual turn in 3I technology... or is<BR>
>that partly what those two chartered and secret psionics institutes were<BR>
>studying?<BR>
<BR>
There are two Longbow Projects - both public domain.<BR>
<BR>
The rumours that the Longbow project was in fact an umbrella <BR>
operation are in fact not true. Move along please, nothing to see.<BR>
<BR>
(Regency Sourcebook has a lot of Longbow stuff, including the fact <BR>
that it was more than declared).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Personally (taking my BITS hat off) I really like the idea Matt has. <BR>
But IMNSHO Hard Times was the best Traveller Setting GDW produced.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:02:12 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
At 12:20 -0400 19/9/00, "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> wrote:<BR>
>Go for it.  I'd spend money on it.  (Of course, it's not easy to get hold<BR>
>of BITS stuff here, so I'd have to order it from overseas, mutter<BR>
>mumble...)<BR>
<BR>
So why not point an Austrailian distributor at us so we can discuss terms.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:39:51 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance [mailto:a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz]<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2000 21:14<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> As soon as I read about the Empress Wave I dropped. It did <BR>
> not require <BR>
> you to suspend disbelief (as the Virus did), it required you <BR>
> to climb to the <BR>
> top of a very tall building and throw it bodily out the <BR>
> window. Just some <BR>
> problems:<BR>
<BR>
Andrew, all problems have a handwave, just watch....<BR>
<BR>
< starts waving hands so furiously that flight is achieved!><BR>
 <BR>
> 1 - A phenomenon travelling at the speed of light would have been <BR>
> detectable at the Lishun depot precisely at the moment when <BR>
> it reached it, <BR>
> not a moment before.<BR>
<BR>
I had the idea that longbow was the focal point for data collected from<BR>
other longbow stations. The data was obviously comming in a FTL, so that<BR>
it had either been jumped in, or collected psionically. (Nothing to say<BR>
that psionics isn't FTL.) <BR>
I would go with psionically, and that the stations are gigantic psionic<BR>
amplifiers, and so have a good reason to go down when the psionic<BR>
phenomenon crosses them. This is also why the station Strepron was on<BR>
had to be in a particular location, away from capital, becuase even<BR>
amplified there was a range limitation.<BR>
<BR>
> 2 - For a phenomenon travelling at the speed of light to be <BR>
> approximately <BR>
> 86 light years away from the Imperium in 1119, it would have had to <BR>
> entered the Zhodani Consulate in in approximately 735. <BR>
> Therefore, by the <BR>
> time the Zhodani opened the 3rd Frontier War (979), the Wave <BR>
> had effected <BR>
> roughly 60% of the Consulate<BR>
<BR>
If we imagine that the wave is a straight line comming from the top of<BR>
the map of known space! If the wave was parabolic in shape, with an<BR>
origin somewhere above the centre of the Vargr Extants <sp?> then it's<BR>
possible that it could be close to the Imperium, without having spent as<BR>
much time in the Consulate. Someone may need to check this theory, I<BR>
don't have a map on me at the moment, and I am just making it up (like<BR>
any good hadwaving ref!)<BR>
My personal preference is for the straight line... easier to explain.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> 3 - If the Empress Wave cause Zhodani society to unravel, <BR>
> then by 1100 <BR>
> roughly 90% of the Consulate has been effected. Yet apparently, the <BR>
> Imperium remained blissfully unaware of this and the Zhodani <BR>
> (with their <BR>
> society collapsing around their ears) felt confident enough <BR>
> to fight yet <BR>
> another war with them.<BR>
<BR>
People going to war for many reasons, however, I can't remember anyone<BR>
starting a war based on logical reasonable assumptions, if a national<BR>
leadership is thinking logically they generally tend to find other<BR>
solutions. What I am saying is that there may be a case to use the<BR>
Empress wave to explain why the Zhodani initiated *four* Frontier wars<BR>
(the fourth one was a bit of a mistake on both sides.) Desperation is a<BR>
good motivatin factor. <BR>
Could help explain the core expiditions as well. Why expend so many<BR>
resources on those? Were they trying to get to the core for a reason?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
OK.... how was that! Pretty good hand waving if I do say so myself!<BR>
(modesty is not a strong point here! <grin>)<BR>
My final comment is, if you don't like the empress wave, don't have it<BR>
in your campaign. I am presently designing a campaign where the virus<BR>
was never let loose, and am debating whether to toss out the Empress<BR>
wave as well.   <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:49:06 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
<BR>
> more uniform TL than the Imperium. Uniformly GTL10 I believe. On the other<BR>
> hand I can easily see the repressive government of the Confederation<BR>
acting<BR>
> as an impediment to technological progress. Compound that with willingness<BR>
<BR>
Possibly, but the reverse is also true, particularly given the amount of<BR>
technology that is a spinoff of weapons research.  Hitler's Germany saw the<BR>
invention of all manner of 'high-technology' devices. An will the huge<BR>
Imperial megacorps be as nimble in the marketplace as smaller, more focused<BR>
Solomani corps?  Technology tends to be market driven, and if a Solomani<BR>
market is more open to new technology than a conservative Vilani one...?<BR>
And The Solomani 'Government' is not a monolithic one like the 3I.  The<BR>
Confederation is a loose association of often contentious worlds.  An idea<BR>
breeding ground for the 'better mousetrap'.<BR>
<BR>
> among the party run government to ignore advances discovered or built by<BR>
> members of the "inferior" mongrel humans and non human species and it is<BR>
> easy to see why the confederation doesn't have a technological edge.<BR>
<BR>
Also seen in Nazi Germany.  Witness the number of 'mongrel' human who fled<BR>
Germany and then helped develope the first nuclear weapons.  but the truth<BR>
is that both the market and the military tend to be pretty pragmatic in the<BR>
case of technology.  Rather than a technology being rejected due to it's<BR>
'mogrel' origins, it is more likely that the government would trot out some<BR>
TrueMan who thought the whole thing up years before.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:56:10 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
<BR>
> In-Reply-To: <B5ECC824.A6A%webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
><BR>
> As a relative newcomer to the TRAVELLER mailing list, what is the Grand<BR>
> Survey mailing list?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
The Grand Survey project is an attempt (spurred by the TML landgrab) to<BR>
build a database driven website incorporating all canon and LandGrab data on<BR>
every charted system in the traveller universe (ambitious, yes?).  The Grand<BR>
Survey mailing list is for developers who are helping in this endevor.<BR>
Currently, the website resides at http://www.grandsurvey.com.  I just moved<BR>
the website and database (MySQL) to a new Sun server, and in the process,<BR>
managed to damage the file with all the subscribers.  Naturally, the backup<BR>
was on a bad tape.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:59:35 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> Well, oxidation technically doesn't require the presence of oxygen.<BR>
Remember<BR>
> LEO roars GER? (Loss of electrons: oxidation, gain of electrons:<BR>
reduction).<BR>
> Aluminum loses electrons (is oxidized), iron oxide is reduced.<BR>
<BR>
OILRIG. Oxidation Is Loss, Reduction Is Gain (of electrons)<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
(former chemist. Escaped alive.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:08:49 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3069<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 19-Sep-00 11:24:32 AM Central Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, we do know at least one person who was at GDW, working on Traveller<BR>
>  and who is a member of this mailing list. I rather suspect, however,  that<BR>
>  even if he does know Mr Wiseman is playing his cards very close to his<BR>
>  chest...remember that the G:T universe is one where the rebellion didn't<BR>
>  happen - but otherwise it's the same universe as CT - and so presumably<BR>
>  those events not a direct result of the rebellion will occur in G:T. Or<BR>
>  maybe I'm just full of it. Fact is, that's all just speculation. I don't<BR>
>  work for Loren and I've got no inside info. FNORD. I AM looking forward to<BR>
>  finding out if my 'conspiracy theories' are correct though <chortle><BR>
<BR>
No comment.<BR>
<BR>
<chortle><BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:12:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> > Well, oxidation technically doesn't require the presence of oxygen.<BR>
> Remember<BR>
> > LEO roars GER? (Loss of electrons: oxidation, gain of electrons:<BR>
> reduction).<BR>
> > Aluminum loses electrons (is oxidized), iron oxide is reduced.<BR>
><BR>
> OILRIG. Oxidation Is Loss, Reduction Is Gain (of electrons)<BR>
><BR>
> Nick<BR>
> (former chemist. Escaped alive.)<BR>
><BR>
Please don't tell me you work in IT.  That would be TOO weird. I spent 3<BR>
years as an analytical chemist and 6 as a toxicologist before figuring out<BR>
there is no money in lab work.  I have since (last 6 years) moved over to<BR>
IT.  No rubber gloves, I can eat my lunch without decontamating and have<BR>
tripled my annual income.<BR>
<BR>
Escaped alive and am thriving.  I do sometime miss all the cool machines,<BR>
but I can't think of a good reason to own a home mass spec or HPLC. And I<BR>
have waaay too much bomb making and poison knowledge for my own good.<BR>
Sadly, it's starting to fade away with time.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:14:36 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Peer Pressure<BR>
<BR>
> Ah. "Peer pressure" applied via high speed application of knuckles...<BR>
>  :-) <BR>
<BR>
According to my uncle, in WWII it was a bar of soap in a sock.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:17:48 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Roc asked:<BR>
>> The real question is how flexible is Mexal?<BR>
><BR>
>No, now the real question - since the subject line - is, "Is Mexal a<BR>
>penguin?!"  If the answer is yes... errrr, how do you type with those<BR>
>flipper-wing-thingies?<BR>
<BR>
Waldoes.<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3072<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3073</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 19 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3073<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
Re: Belief systems...<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Java<BR>
Re: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liqu id Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Hlana Saka pictures<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
Converting FF&S to HG<BR>
Re: Hindenberg<BR>
Re: TNE Canon? INCLUDES RSB SPOILERS<BR>
Re: Peer Pressure<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:23:36 EDT<BR>
From: Olegamer@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
<BR>
OK guys and gals, I have a question for the forum (gee that sounds Greek); my <BR>
question is related to Classic Traveller - discounting the STRIKER miniature <BR>
rules, how do most of you that referee handle vehicle combat? <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:31:22 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Belief systems...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Steven Hudson" <shudson@lightspeed.ca><BR>
<BR>
> >> The CT Creed: There is no Game but Classic Traveller, and High Guard is<BR>
> >its Product<BR>
> ...<BR>
> >There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product.<BR>
><BR>
>   <ahem>  And High Guard is from what "version" of Traveller, hmm?<BR>
<BR>
Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:49:17 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
On 19 Sep 2000, at 9:53, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ah. "Peer pressure" applied via high speed application of knuckles...<BR>
> :-) <BR>
<BR>
Yep. He came quite close to being 'rifle whipped' with his own weapon too, <BR>
mainly because he kept claiming that he's done nothing wrong.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:09:07 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
On 19 Sep 2000, at 16:12, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Escaped alive and am thriving.  I do sometime miss all the cool machines,<BR>
> but I can't think of a good reason to own a home mass spec or HPLC. And I<BR>
> have waaay too much bomb making and poison knowledge for my own good.<BR>
> Sadly, it's starting to fade away with time.<BR>
<BR>
There's a cure for that, you know - use it :)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:25:59 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
<BR>
Olegamer@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> OK guys and gals, I have a question for the forum (gee that sounds Greek); my <BR>
>question is related to Classic Traveller - discounting the STRIKER miniature <BR>
>rules, how do most of you that referee handle vehicle combat? <BR>
<BR>
"Discounting Striker," I don't.  However, I use a freeform guesstimation version of Striker instead of actual minis (which I don't have).  In all honesty, though, it rarely comes up at a level where I can't just wing it.<BR>
<BR>
Answer #2:  MegaTraveller, which, IIRC, had vehicles integrated into the standard (man-to-man) combat system (Note: my system-of-choice tends to actually be about 35% CT, 30% MT, 20% T4.1, 15% homebrew).<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:39:50 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>> <BR>
<BR>
>         Actually, I had an excuse for some of it - there was the time in<BR>
> high school when I was helping the chemistry teacher test out the formula<BR>
> for nitrogen tri-iodide to see if it would work with the chemicals we had in<BR>
> stock (yes, I was a geek).  It did, and anyone walking through the<BR>
> math/science building that evening would have heard a succession of loud<BR>
> *bangs* interspersed by two supposedly mature individuals giggling like<BR>
> Bedlamites.<BR>
<BR>
<<contented smile>><BR>
<BR>
Ah, yes.  Nitrogen tri-iodide.  Truly the toy of the gods.<BR>
<BR>
We mixed up some when I was in high school (we **jokingly** referred to<BR>
our school's Chemistry Club as "the [city deleted] chapter of the IRA",<BR>
because we all loved highly exergonic reactions).  We put a few _small_<BR>
deposits on the floor just inside the classroom door.  Next morning, the<BR>
first person through the door was another teacher, carrying a box of<BR>
test tubes....<BR>
<BR>
<<step>>, **BANG**, "Aack!" <<arms fly up, box drops>>, **crash, tinkle,<BR>
tinkle**<BR>
<BR>
If only my other high school experiences had given me that same warm<BR>
glow of satisfaction....<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
>         p.s.  Don't ever try to make nitrogen tri-iodide.  It is a primary<BR>
> high explosive, and so unstable that the stresses induced by drying can be<BR>
> enough to cause it to detonate.  I understand that nearly every year a<BR>
> couple of kids manage to blow themselves up in their basements making this<BR>
> stuff.<BR>
<BR>
That's why we only made a small amount.<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, when dry, the stuff is so unstable that it will explode if<BR>
you think unhappy thoughts within a hundred meters of it....<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:54:54 -0400<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Java<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:32:46 -0700<BR>
> From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Java (was Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> ObTrav.  Is there any standardization in the 3I with regard to computer<BR>
> technology?  Will apps written for a LSP computer run on another vendor's<BR>
> box.  Does any one megacorp dominate the hardware or software industry of<BR>
> the 3?<BR>
> <BR>
> An why has there been so little computer progress in in several thousand<BR>
> years, anyway?<BR>
> <BR>
> Tod<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	Because Moores law has to top out somewhere. <BR>
<BR>
	Personally, I think a lot of the technological limitations of the<BR>
Traveller universe has to do with the limits of physics (GURPS<BR>
Technology Extrapolations not withstanding), engineering, Genetics, and<BR>
less to do with the limits of the imagination of the inhabitants or any<BR>
sort of conservatism. <BR>
	Why every planet isn't TL15 is another question. <BR>
<BR>
	In terms of computers themselves, there are three issues: How much<BR>
computing power can you get into a given small space, How small can you<BR>
make a computer and still make it useable, and how much computing power<BR>
do you really need. <BR>
	You can compact a vast amount of computing power into a very small<BR>
space, even with today's computing equipment, and I can see at least<BR>
three orders of magntitue more performance from the computers. But<BR>
beyond that is questionable. One of the things that bothers me most is<BR>
the assumption that continual increases in computing power we have seen<BR>
over the last 50 years will continue indefinitely. <BR>
<BR>
	The limitations of computing is rapidly becoming the size of the<BR>
interface. That is more space is being allocated to the interface<BR>
elements than to the computer itself. One of the lessons of Windows is<BR>
you can devote an enormous amount of computer resources to just<BR>
maintaining the User Interface. How much computing power does the real<BR>
time, touch sensitive, voice activated room sized holographic displays<BR>
take?<BR>
	I remember reading in an early Traveller article (White Dwarf?)<BR>
complaining about the size of the computers. But if you look on ship<BR>
deckplans, the desk with the computer terminal take 1 square (1/2 DTon).<BR>
So if you add up all the terminals, and a 1/2 dton computer rack, it may<BR>
be the computers are too small...<BR>
<BR>
	The final question is, when computer science actually becomes a<BR>
science, it will be possible to calculate exactly how much computing<BR>
power is needed to perform various tasks, including the hardware and<BR>
software requirements. So why build a super powered computer with more<BR>
power than is actually needed. In the Classic Traveller, you could<BR>
actually run a ship on a smaller than the most powerful without serious<BR>
problem. So the ground based traffic control computers (for example) may<BR>
be much more powerful than the starship computer could ever be.<BR>
<BR>
	<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:06:31 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: GT Gearhead Stuff: Nuclear Power Plant Tables<BR>
<BR>
This reply has also been sent to the newsgroups.<BR>
On 16 Sep 2000 22:11:59 -0400, I wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
>         Nuclear Power Systems for GURPS Traveller<BR>
<BR>
> TL Type     Mass (stons)|   Cost (MCr)  | Slice (dtons)*<BR>
>              Core   /MW |   Core    /MW |   Core    /MW<BR>
<snip><BR>
> 09 Fission    0.5   0.5 |   0.08   0.04 |   0.12   0.12<BR>
> 09 Fusion      10   0.5 |      5    0.2 |    2.4   0.12<BR>
<snip><BR>
> * All slices include long term access space; for short term access<BR>
> power systems divide these volumes by 1.5. I hope this is useful.<BR>
<BR>
While these statistics make Fission a much better deal than Fusion<BR>
at TL9, you also have to factor in the cost of fuel rods. At KCr4<BR>
per MW-year, the total cost of running a fission power plant *may*<BR>
eventually exceed that of a fusion plant. Below are some equations<BR>
for converting a TL9 fusion powered ship to fission power.<BR>
<BR>
Given that P = the total power consumption of all equipment in MW,<BR>
<BR>
    dPrice = MCr -(4.92 + P x 0.16) = Change in Base Purchase Price,<BR>
    dCargo = +2 dtons = change in cargo capacity,<BR>
    dEmass = -9.5 stons = change in ship's empty mass, and<BR>
    dFuel  = MCr +(0.004 x P) = Fuel Cost per year.<BR>
<BR>
From these we can derive the following values;<BR>
<BR>
    dLMass = dEmass + 5 x dCargo = 0.5 stons = change in loaded mass<BR>
    dCost  = 2.2 x dPrice = change in total amount spend for a ship<BR>
             with a standard 40 year mortgage and 20% down payment.<BR>
    BEP    = dCost / dFuel = 2706/P + 88 = the break even point in<BR>
             years when the total cost of a fission plant plus fuel<BR>
             exceeds the the cost of a fusion plant.<BR>
<BR>
The minimum break even point is thus 88 years for a mortgaged ship,<BR>
or 40 years for one bought with cash. Given the duration of a fusion<BR>
plant is 200 years before it must be replaced, the point to which<BR>
fission is unequivocally cheaper than fusion is P < 24.16 MW for a<BR>
mortgaged plant or P < 8.456 MW for an unmortgaged one.<BR>
<BR>
JUMP DIMMING<BR>
<BR>
According to library data (GT44), "this custom derived from the need<BR>
of most of the ship's power to be diverted into the computer and<BR>
jump-drive systems, so that the jump drive could be guided into<BR>
creating the jump field properly." One way to model this is to have<BR>
TL9 jump drives rely at least partially on the power slices of the<BR>
manuever drives (and possibly weapon systems) while in jump. If the<BR>
J-Drive must be running for two minutes prior to jump entry, both<BR>
drives could be working simultaneously, meaning the power must be<BR>
drawn from other systems. Below is a chart defining which systems<BR>
should be operational when:<BR>
<BR>
                                    Inside    Entering or<BR>
    System Name         in N-Space  J-space   Exiting Jump<BR>
    Jump Drive              No        Yes       Yes<BR>
    Computer Systems        Yes       Yes       Yes<BR>
    Life Support Systems,<BR>
        Utility, Sickbay,<BR>
        Entertainment,<BR>
        Labs, Workshops     Yes       Yes      Maybe<BR>
    All Other Systems       Yes       No       Maybe<BR>
<BR>
Determine which systems you want to shut down or operate at reduced<BR>
capacity while preparing to jump, and total their power requirements<BR>
to create a negative power slice. Given "p" is the size of the slice<BR>
in MW, increase the cargo space by p/25 dtons and decrease EMass by<BR>
p/2 stons, LMass by 0.3 x p stons and cost by either MCr0.2 x p for<BR>
fusion or MCr0.04 x p for fission. The value of p cannot be greater<BR>
than the lesser of the jump drive power requirement and that of all<BR>
systems that cannot operate in jumpspace.<BR>
<BR>
Comments, please?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |  Spaceman Spiff takes our demon and eloped with  |<BR>
              |                   Iran. FNORD!                   |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:59:17 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>     On the HIWG CD their are some deckplans (mostly in GIF format<BR>
>> IIRC), I'd like suggestions on what other formats to provide them in<BR>
>> (particularly vector).<BR>
<BR>
> Postscript would be about the only real x-platform one.<BR>
<BR>
I thought postscript only did bitmapped graphics?<BR>
<BR>
> QT for Windows<BR>
> doesn't handle vector Pict files well, and the equivalent in the Windows<BR>
> worlds, the WMF file a) isn't very good to start with, and b) doesn't even<BR>
> work all the time on Windows.<BR>
<BR>
What does it take to view WMF files? I've gotten a few from a binaries<BR>
group and my Win95 box has no idea what to do with them.<BR>
<BR>
I'll put in a vote for CGM. It's not the primary format of any package<BR>
I'm familiar with, but last time I looked, many programs could *import*<BR>
it. <BR>
<BR>
For that matter a lot of stuff supports DWG files. The CAD program I've<BR>
got (an old copy of TurboCAD) imports DXF and HPGL files.<BR>
<BR>
I hadn't realized that anything *could* import HPGL files until I<BR>
checked the import command. So I'd be happy with an HPGL file. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Ghostscript is available for a variety of platforms, and will open<BR>
> well-behaved PS files just fine, and let you print them on about seventy<BR>
> kajillion different printers.<BR>
<BR>
I've got Ghostscript on my OS/2 system now. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:49:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liqu id Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>>Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making<BR>
>>Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
>><BR>
>>In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> Apparently the skin of the Hindenberg used a brand new doping compound<BR>
>>> made up of a mixture of Iron Oxide and Aluminium Oxide. (Not far <BR>
>>> different to the fuel formula for the space shuttles solid rocket<BR>
>>> boosters) In other words the hull was coated in rocket fuel! Woops!<BR>
><BR>
>>No, that's *quite* a ways from rocket fuel. But it's damn close to<BR>
>>*thermite*. A well know incendiary compound that is sometimes used to<BR>
>>"instantly" weld railroad tracks. <BR>
><BR>
>         Wellll..... If it were aluminum oxide, it wouldn't do anything.<BR>
> Thermite is a mix of aluminum metal and iron oxide, and burns when the<BR>
> aluminum oxidizes by stripping the oxygen away from the iron, leaving<BR>
> aluminum oxide, molten iron, and a hell of a lot of heat.  This is why it<BR>
> also burns underwater, as the mixture brings its own oxygen with it.<BR>
<BR>
I missed the "oxide" after "Aluminum". The mix used powdered aluminum<BR>
(the usual pigment in "silver" paint) *not* aluminum oxide.<BR>
<BR>
>         There was another thread a few digests ago where someone mentioned<BR>
> gunpowder and air - gunpowder doesn't need air for the same reason, it has<BR>
> it's own source of oxygen:  saltpeter.  Without the potassium nitrate, the<BR>
> charcoal and sulfur would just make a slow, messy, smelly barbecue.  Add a<BR>
> chemical that breaks down with heat to produce oxygen, and you have a mix<BR>
> that evolves into a gas fast enough to drive a bullet down a barrel in the<BR>
> manner we all know and love.  75% of gunpowder, by weight, is KNO3, by the<BR>
> way; you need a whole lot of old manure to keep a TL4 army in the<BR>
> field...and I don't mean from the politicians.<BR>
<BR>
I've got a description of how you extract the saltpeter (at pre-1800<BR>
TLs) if anybody wants to spring it on some PCs. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:55:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> liquid you mentioned...<BR>
>><BR>
>> Speaking of the Matador books, has anyone ever created a Traveller<BR>
>> version of the spetsdod?<BR>
><BR>
> Great space opera.  My one claim to fame is to be in the<BR>
> acknowledgements of 'Black Steel'.<BR>
<BR>
Wow!<BR>
<BR>
If I ever get that part of my library out of storage, I'll have to get<BR>
you to sign that page. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Steve and I discussed to spetsdod at length.  I think I have a trav<BR>
> version somewhere.  Have to do some searching for you.<BR>
<BR>
If it wasn't for Orycon's overly anal weapons policy (and I speak as<BR>
one of the folks who pushed for *some* sort of weapons policy in the<BR>
first place), I'd have made up a pair of spetsdods for wearing as part<BR>
of a hall costume years ago.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:52:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> That would have been powdered aluminum and iron oxide, which burns to<BR>
>> make aluminum oxide and iron. Welding rails involves a mold to contain the<BR>
>> molten iron which runs off from the thermite burn.<BR>
><BR>
> You are darn right.  I should have read the earlier post more carefully.<BR>
> Just how many former (or current) mad bomber are there on this list, anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Well, I never *did* any of the stuff, but I collected all the necessary<BR>
info. <BR>
<BR>
I also remember wandering thru the big drugstore at the local shoppiong<BR>
center (what would now be a "mall), and wishing I could *afford* the<BR>
jars of various chemicals. <BR>
<BR>
Alas, the amatuer bombmakers of the late 60s ended *that*. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:19:11 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Hlana Saka pictures<BR>
<BR>
Pics scanned and sent.<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:28:22 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
> If it wasn't for Orycon's overly anal weapons policy (and I speak as<BR>
> one of the folks who pushed for *some* sort of weapons policy in the<BR>
> first place), I'd have made up a pair of spetsdods for wearing as part<BR>
> of a hall costume years ago.<BR>
<BR>
A reason I stopped attending.  Plus its a comparatively dull convention.<BR>
Right now I'm down to attending NorWesCon annually.  Although I'm<BR>
considering giving BayCon a try, considering all the nutty types that attend<BR>
there.  I figure I'll fit right in.  And my lovely bride would probably take<BR>
time off from crime fighting to spend a few days in the magical city of SF.<BR>
Also gives me a chance to drop in on American Fencers Supply.<BR>
<BR>
I hear Doug Berry my be coming my way in December for the machinegun shoot,<BR>
so if he checks out, I suppose I dare take a chance on the rest of you San<BR>
Frans come BayCon time.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:03:00 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Megan Robertson <mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Cc: <mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:02:am<BR>
Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In-Reply-To: <008a01c021dc$1fe69220$0e092ecb@theroc><BR>
> Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
><BR>
> Please... I am not a penguin.<BR>
><BR>
> I am CoedArianese... I come from a nice warm planet in a system a sector<BR>
> or so spinward of the Spinward Marches. We have large pointy ears and good<BR>
> low light vision but are otherwise more or less humanoid. In reference to<BR>
> some ancient mythology I have never understood some people call us<BR>
> 'elves'.<BR>
><BR>
> Hugs and kisses,<BR>
><BR>
> Mexal.<BR>
><BR>
> PS. What IS a penguin?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Apparently, they look like elves... only shorter and wearing a tux...?  Not<BR>
sure if they an put their legs over someone's shoulder though, short,<BR>
Scottish, or otherwise?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:38:31 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Converting FF&S to HG<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Nick said:<BR>
>I've played High Guard in a TNE setting.<BR>
><BR>
>(And let me tell you, it's a bugger converting all those FFS designs to<BR>
>Book 5...)<BR>
<BR>
So, presumably you have a system to do this that works? Please tell us how you<BR>
did this!<BR>
<BR>
From some of the conversion attempts I've undertaken, my opinion is that the<BR>
biggest problems are converting armor and weaponry.<BR>
<BR>
Everything else is just fluff. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
(OK, OK, there are a few tweaks that people have already developed, such as the<BR>
HAIS (High Automation Integrated System) rules for computers. But the _biggies_<BR>
are armour & weapons).<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:23:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>
>> Possible analogies in Traveller. A crystal iron hull not manufactured<BR>
>> properly, decrystallising under stress. This would not make the crew very<BR>
>> happy.<BR>
><BR>
> "General Products Customer Service, how may I help you?"<BR>
><BR>
> "My General Products hull just failed."<BR>
><BR>
> "!!!"<BR>
><BR>
>  ...<BR>
><BR>
> "Ah, I see. We had no idea there was antimatter available in such quantity <BR>
> anywhere in Known Space."<BR>
><BR>
> "Antimatter?"<BR>
><BR>
> -- "Flatlander", Larry Niven<BR>
<BR>
Cannonball Express (that's what they wound up naming that planet) would<BR>
make such a *lovely* place to trick PCs into visiting...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:24:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon? INCLUDES RSB SPOILERS<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Well, in G:T, what happened to Dulinor? Was the shuttle explosion an<BR>
>> accident? Yeah, right....<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Interdimensional time police? <g><BR>
><BR>
> My theory is that one of the die-hard CT fans on this list will freeze<BR>
> himself and set the low berth to wake him up in time to make his way to<BR>
> Capital and plant the bomb himself, thereby preventing the rebellion and<BR>
> subsequent heretical events.<BR>
<BR>
Nah, our families will pass down the "secret knowledge" thru the<BR>
generations, and do it.<BR>
<BR>
This is why they've not located any likely suspects. The motive isn't<BR>
anything that ImpSec (pardon me, IMOJ :-) can track down. It's<BR>
*effectively* a "stranger murder". No link between victim and killer.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:43:47 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Peer Pressure<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Ah. "Peer pressure" applied via high speed application of knuckles...<BR>
>>  :-) <BR>
><BR>
> According to my uncle, in WWII it was a bar of soap in a sock.<BR>
<BR>
Still a favored weapon in prisons from what I hear.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:14:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 09:53 AM 9/19/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Ah. "Peer pressure" applied via high speed application of knuckles...<BR>
>>:-) <BR>
><BR>
> In OSUT, we had one guy who refused to shower.  Seriously, he'd only shower<BR>
> when there was nobody else in the latrine, which wasn't often.  Guy<BR>
> couldn't even get dressed without hiding in his wall locker.<BR>
><BR>
> So one night we clean him.  With floor brushes and powdered cleaner.  He<BR>
> kept fighting and cursing until he saw one troop plugging in the floor<BR>
> buffer, at which point there was an unconditional surrender and agreement<BR>
> to shower with the rest of us on the same schedule.  Had he kept it up, we<BR>
> were going to wax his ass.  Literally.<BR>
<BR>
From what I've read, that's been standard procedure for well over a<BR>
century. It's just that in the last few decades, it's had to quit being<BR>
*official* policy.<BR>
<BR>
There's a description of such things in both "Starship Trooper" and in<BR>
"See Here, Private Hargrove".<BR>
<BR>
> Then of course came the night we crushed SSG Colom's Smokey hat, and spent<BR>
> the next three hours doing PT...<BR>
<BR>
Having spent most of my adolescence getting bi-weekly allergy shots at<BR>
the base hospital, from non-com corpsmen, there's no way in hell I'd<BR>
*voluntarily* piss off a non-com!<BR>
<BR>
Sure, the corpsmen weren't alllowed to *do* anything to non-cooperative<BR>
kids. But between not being allowed to help with the "fun" stuff (like<BR>
helping assemble disposable syringes & needles) and getting to be<BR>
"practice dummy" for the new corpsman who was still learning how to<BR>
give injections, he got the idea in a hurry. <BR>
<BR>
I don't know about the *other* kids but it didn't take me long to<BR>
figure out that these guys were *far* sneakier than I was. And I could<BR>
imagine quite well the results of getting in trouble under<BR>
circumstances were they were *allowed* to do something about it. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:27:20 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
If you want to try, I'd support you.  This mob is probably the largest game<BR>
importer in Oz and I have dealt with them for more years than I can<BR>
remember, starting out with ordering miniatures and  Traveller LBB's, and my<BR>
sub to JTAS in the good old days.  They are currently advertising in their<BR>
Spring 2000 catalogue, the three CT reprint books.  They have always been<BR>
Traveller friendly in the past.<BR>
<BR>
Get in touch with them and see what they have to say?  I'm also posting this<BR>
publically for any Aussie/Kiwi gamers that may be unaware of them and in<BR>
need of a decent source of gaming material (sorry I never thought of this<BR>
earlier, but they are in my mind, a order and forget group, as I only seem<BR>
to think of them when I want something, or when a new catalogue comes out -<BR>
about 3/year).  All their contact info is below.  For "local gamers," (Oz,<BR>
NZ, Asia/Pacific), they accept cheques, money orders, and most credit cards,<BR>
and prefer phone, e-mail, or web orders - all via CC payment... but don't<BR>
baulk when I post a check.  Turn-around for my last order (last week), was<BR>
5-days from my posting the cheque (posted Sat morning, waiting in PO Box<BR>
Thursday... which was good considering it takes 5-working days to clear a<BR>
cheque here-abouts!)<BR>
<BR>
Military Simulations<BR>
143 Cochranes Road<BR>
Moorabbin, Vic<BR>
                    3189<BR>
- ---------------------<BR>
<BR>
Ph: 03) 9555 8886<BR>
Fx: 03) 9553 3339<BR>
- ---------------------<BR>
<BR>
E-mail: sales@milsims.com.au<BR>
Web: www.milsims.com.au<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 5:02:am<BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 12:20 -0400 19/9/00, "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> wrote:<BR>
> >Go for it.  I'd spend money on it.  (Of course, it's not easy to get hold<BR>
> >of BITS stuff here, so I'd have to order it from overseas, mutter<BR>
> >mumble...)<BR>
><BR>
> So why not point an Austrailian distributor at us so we can discuss terms.<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
><BR>
> ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
> "We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
> can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
> http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3073<BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 20 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3074<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Peer Pressure<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: Belief systems...<BR>
Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: Alternate Imperia<BR>
Re: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
Re: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
Re: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Computer sizes (was Re: Java)<BR>
Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
Re: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
Escaped chemists seek refuge in software<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
RE: Escaped chemists seek refuge in software<BR>
RE: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums <BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:31:58 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Peer Pressure<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: <GDWGAMES@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 9:14:am<BR>
Subject: Re: Peer Pressure<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > Ah. "Peer pressure" applied via high speed application of knuckles...<BR>
> >  :-) <BR>
> <BR>
> According to my uncle, in WWII it was a bar of soap in a sock.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I think that still applies cobber - something's never change.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:07:50 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
John asked Jeff:<BR>
>> I can't hold it in any longer; since the British Government decreed<BR>
>> that alcopops were bad for the nations 'yoof' and more-or-less<BR>
>> regulated them out of kiddies pocketmoney range,<BR>
><BR>
>Alcopops???  Are we talking sweet things like bottled wine<BR>
>coolers, or beercicles?<BR>
<BR>
Another example of how America and Britain are two countries divided by a common<BR>
language.<BR>
<BR>
"Iced lolly" (UK) = icecream-on-a-stick (think: Paddle Pop, Cornetto, etc.<BR>
Yum.). These can be called "ice blocks" (Aust), although we usually reserve that<BR>
for flavoured ice on sticks. Or beersicles, if such things exist.<BR>
<BR>
"Sweets" (Aust) = "Dessert" (UK) [= ???? in US?]. Eg. ice-cream with flavoured<BR>
topping.<BR>
<BR>
"Lollies" (UK) = "Sweets" (Aust) = "Candy" (US).<BR>
<BR>
"Lollypop" (UK and Aust) = candy-on-a-stick, like an all-day sucker. And is the<BR>
hardest English word for Japanese to say.<BR>
<BR>
As I understand it, "pop" (UK) is fizzy drink, as in "a bottle of pop" = "soda"<BR>
(US). Thus I think you were right the first time, John - alcoholic "pop".<BR>
["Soda" (Aust) = soda water, the unflavoured carbonated water favoured by some<BR>
as a mixer. Blecch!].<BR>
<BR>
Feel free to correct me, anyone - it's these sort of things that make the<BR>
difference between Riftian and Marchian (how's that for a thin ObTrav!).<BR>
<BR>
And now I'm off to lunch - I'm hungry!<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:34:46 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Belief systems...<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: swordworlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 9:31:am<BR>
Subject: Re: Belief systems...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: "Steven Hudson" <shudson@lightspeed.ca><BR>
><BR>
> > >> The CT Creed: There is no Game but Classic Traveller, and High Guard<BR>
is<BR>
> > >its Product<BR>
> > ...<BR>
> > >There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >   <ahem>  And High Guard is from what "version" of Traveller, hmm?<BR>
><BR>
> Traveller.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Or to paraphrase an Aussie Panadol commercial, "Traveller; the original, and<BR>
best."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:51:03 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?<BR>
<BR>
Hi Luther,<BR>
<BR>
I helped develop PicoJava.<BR>
<BR>
> PicoJava processor and its relatives. I've never met anyone who has used<BR>
> these processors,<BR>
<BR>
You probably never will.  Sun never sent the design to production but it<BR>
is open sourced:<BR>
http://www.sun.com/microelectronics/communitysource/picojava/<BR>
<BR>
> On the other hand, the architecture of the JVM is quite limited, and I doubt<BR>
> that it can ever match the performance of super-scalar, super-pipelined<BR>
> architectures like we have today, even if you are implementing it in<BR>
> hardware, like the PicoJava processor.<BR>
<BR>
PicoJava wasn't meant to compete at that level.  It was meant for<BR>
embedding in smartcards, appliances, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:42:39 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Alternate Imperiums<BR>
<BR>
"Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Indeed, I recommend a Traveller/Call of Cthulhu crossover.  Why settle for<BR>
> the lesser evil?<BR>
<BR>
Marc already wrote one of those years ago, I believe it was<BR>
called 'Secrets of the Ancients'.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:51:56 +1000<BR>
From: Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
The Roc wrote:<BR>
><BR>
[snip]<BR>
> <BR>
> Military Simulations<BR>
<BR>
I'd be surprised if any Australians didn't know about them. Any boxed<BR>
product has their card inside. <BR>
<BR>
Mind Games, the local game store here in Melbourne, has a strong<BR>
connection with them and has had the latest GT books in usually before I<BR>
here anything on the list about them being available.<BR>
<BR>
Living in the same city as the importer for the whole of Australia has<BR>
it's benefits as I get to go to their annual overstock clearance and<BR>
picked up 11 T4 books for 5 Australian dollars each. (Unfortunately it<BR>
was before I joined the list and found out which ones aren't worth 5<BR>
bucks.)<BR>
<BR>
Phill<BR>
- --<BR>
      "We're all in it together." - Harry Tuttle, Brazil.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:05:51 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 1:07:pm<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
> John asked Jeff:<BR>
> >> I can't hold it in any longer; since the British Government decreed<BR>
> >> that alcopops were bad for the nations 'yoof' and more-or-less<BR>
> >> regulated them out of kiddies pocketmoney range,<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Alcopops???  Are we talking sweet things like bottled wine<BR>
> >coolers, or beercicles?<BR>
><BR>
> Another example of how America and Britain are two countries divided by a<BR>
common<BR>
> language.<BR>
<BR>
Or even local, regional differences...?<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> "Iced lolly" (UK) = icecream-on-a-stick (think: Paddle Pop, Cornetto, etc.<BR>
> Yum.). These can be called "ice blocks" (Aust), although we usually<BR>
reserve that<BR>
> for flavoured ice on sticks. Or beersicles, if such things exist.<BR>
<BR>
Queensland; Iceblock = frozen water-based treat on a stick; Icecream =<BR>
milk-based.  Up until I was 8yo, NSW was the same?<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> "Sweets" (Aust) = "Dessert" (UK) [= ???? in US?]. Eg. ice-cream with<BR>
flavoured<BR>
> topping.<BR>
<BR>
Q'ld; Sweets.afters = dessert or pudding.  As above, NSW was just dessert.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> "Lollies" (UK) = "Sweets" (Aust) = "Candy" (US).<BR>
<BR>
Q'ld; lollies = lollies (as above, NSW too)<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> "Lollypop" (UK and Aust) = candy-on-a-stick, like an all-day sucker. And<BR>
is the<BR>
> hardest English word for Japanese to say.<BR>
<BR>
Nodnods...<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> As I understand it, "pop" (UK) is fizzy drink, as in "a bottle of pop" =<BR>
"soda"<BR>
> (US). Thus I think you were right the first time, John - alcoholic "pop".<BR>
> ["Soda" (Aust) = soda water, the unflavoured carbonated water favoured by<BR>
some<BR>
> as a mixer. Blecch!].<BR>
<BR>
Q'ld: fizzy drink = cordial for many years!  More common now is "softdrink."<BR>
NSW ('til I was 8) = softdrink, while cordial = concentrated base that you<BR>
added water or "soda water" to.<BR>
<BR>
Soda is rarely used here in Q'ld as a word other than mixing drinks like<BR>
"Scotch and soda,"... Otherwise, the beverage was simply soda water ("get me<BR>
a bottle of soda water while you are out dear, I wouldn't mind a class or<BR>
three of scotch and soda tonight...").  Soda water is also said to be good<BR>
remedy for an "upset tummy"... it helps to settle it down for some reason?<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Feel free to correct me, anyone - it's these sort of things that make the<BR>
> difference between Riftian and Marchian (how's that for a thin ObTrav!).<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking the same, re ObTrav... if my input involved just two states,<BR>
how difficult must it be between systems!?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:01:32 -0700<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
Just because it's coming from coreward doesn't mean it originated at the<BR>
core...maybe it started much closer to the Consulate, triggered by the 6th or<BR>
7th core expedition.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:02:34 -0700<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
Alternatively, a core expedition could jump past it without noticing;<BR>
in fact, that's more<BR>
likely than an expedition being in normal space at the moment the wave<BR>
passes through a given system.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:28:19<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alternate Imperia<BR>
<BR>
At 03:12 PM 9/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>(I don't know if anyone ever collected and organized the whole sprawling<BR>
>mess...if so, where is it?  I could go on for pages with this stuff, and<BR>
>I'm sure I'm forgetting more than half of what we came up with.)<BR>
<BR>
I've got most of it, and have been trying to put it together for months,<BR>
but every time I start I have these mysterious blackouts and lose six or<BR>
seven days...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:32:15<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
<BR>
At 05:46 PM 9/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Does this happen in every training cycle? 1980, Ft. Benning, Harmony<BR>
>>church. Same scenario, same tools. Do you ever miss the roaches scuttling <BR>
>>out of the showers when you turn on the lights?<BR>
><BR>
>Was at same Place, two years later.<BR>
><BR>
>Do I miss the non-airconditioned TL 5 barracks in the middle of a Georgia<BR>
>summer?<BR>
<BR>
Ah, you should have stayed at Sand Hilton, where we had valet service, a<BR>
four-star mess hall, and the drills left little mints on our pillows.<BR>
<BR>
A-7-1!  On the Road, Infantry!  (Sept-Dec 1984)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Embrace Fascism.    The uniforms look cool<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:33:50<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
<BR>
At 02:18 PM 9/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav.  Does the 3I military pick similar lovely places to train troops?<BR>
>Are there any 'canon' posts like Benning where basic trainees are sent?<BR>
>Many post were established in the US south post civil war.  Are there<BR>
>similar concentrations of military posts in the Solomani rim post rim war?<BR>
<BR>
GF does mention Camp Walter Hopgood, a Marine training facility.  Deserting<BR>
is easy, just go out the gate, turn left, and the bus stop is 900 miles<BR>
that way.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:35:02<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Do I miss the roaches?<BR>
<BR>
At 02:31 PM 9/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I've a theory on this.  I think the Military grows the roaches on purpose. <BR>
>I was in Orlando, FL in the summer of '86.  I'd never seen a Roach in my<BR>
>life.  Those suckers were huge and all over.  I've only rarely seen roaches<BR>
>since, and never that big (even at other places in Orlando).<BR>
<BR>
I don't know, I wasn't worried about the roaches until I saw one with<BR>
little Master Blaster wings and First Sergeant stripes...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:36:06<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 11:02 PM 9/19/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>PS. What IS a penguin?<BR>
<BR>
Either a thrown, or two-handed melee weapon.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:40:13<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 01:45 PM 9/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Does this happen in every training cycle? 1980, Ft. Benning, Harmony church.<BR>
>Same scenario, same tools. Do you ever miss the roaches scuttling out of the<BR>
>showers when you turn on the lights?<BR>
<BR>
I imagine theres always somebody who has never disrobed in front of others<BR>
in his life.  To be honest, group showering was a little off-putting to me<BR>
until I realized that it was five minutes a day when I could not be dropped<BR>
for push-ups.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I broke the cardinal rule of basic traing: They learned my name.<BR>
Senior Drill Sergeant swanson even got to the point of calling me "brother<BR>
Berry".<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:46:52<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 07:14 PM 9/19/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Then of course came the night we crushed SSG Colom's Smokey hat, and spent<BR>
>> the next three hours doing PT...<BR>
><BR>
>Having spent most of my adolescence getting bi-weekly allergy shots at<BR>
>the base hospital, from non-com corpsmen, there's no way in hell I'd<BR>
>*voluntarily* piss off a non-com!<BR>
<BR>
Here's the situation:<BR>
<BR>
1. We had just had mail call, one item being a large tin of homemade cookies.<BR>
<BR>
2. After finishing passing out the mail, DS Colom leaves his hat next to<BR>
the tin.<BR>
<BR>
3. We rush forward to make sure we get a cookie.<BR>
<BR>
4. crunch<BR>
<BR>
5. We go to cookie hell.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:56:07 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Computer sizes (was Re: Java)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Thom Jones-Low" <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
> In terms of computers themselves, there are three issues: How much<BR>
> computing power can you get into a given small space, How small can you<BR>
> make a computer and still make it useable, and how much computing power<BR>
> do you really need.<BR>
<BR>
How about these questions: How much of life is computerized? How much<BR>
redundancy is necessary to satisfy the consumer and the safety agencies and<BR>
the PR people?<BR>
<BR>
I remember being shocked at how much redundancy and overbuild went into the<BR>
design of a nuke plant when I first went to work there. As time went on, I<BR>
realized how critical the redundancy actually is. You have to have a spare<BR>
to use while you are doing normal maintenance, but you also need a backup in<BR>
case the spare fails. Starships would require "fail safe" designs. They<BR>
would also need shielding and spare parts and tools and diagnostic<BR>
equipment.<BR>
<BR>
How much personal computing power would the passengers and crew require? Do<BR>
people of the bright future expect systems that track their entire work,<BR>
health, nutrition, hygiene, entertainment and love life? Do the systems<BR>
monitor and set lighting, heating, cooling, music, and other environmental<BR>
variables? Are there integral safety and security monitors and do they<BR>
require separate systems?<BR>
<BR>
I always felt that there were too many of these variables to bother<BR>
tracking, but that they needed to be considered. In light of these questions<BR>
I have never given sway to the arguments against the computer tonnage<BR>
requirements in books 2 and 5.<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:21:34 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 2:51:pm<BR>
Subject: Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The Roc wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> [snip]<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Military Simulations<BR>
><BR>
> I'd be surprised if any Australians didn't know about them. Any boxed<BR>
> product has their card inside.<BR>
<BR>
I personally stumbled upon MilSim's by accident through a gaming mag (which<BR>
I never knew existed either, at the time) oh, so many years ago.  Many<BR>
outlets here in SE Q'ld import directly from Hawaii, thus you don't see<BR>
those card of which you speak... which I only see by ordering anything in a<BR>
box from MilSims!  So it just occurred to me, that perhaps some Aussie folk<BR>
that may be lurking on the list may be seeing then name for the first time?<BR>
<BR>
> Mind Games, the local game store here in Melbourne, has a strong<BR>
> connection with them and has had the latest GT books in usually before I<BR>
> here anything on the list about them being available.<BR>
<BR>
We have a similar thing here, where the local outlets order from "the US"<BR>
(Hawaii) from industry catalogues which advertise these things well in<BR>
advance of many places.  I once worked in a local "comic shop" (comics,<BR>
games, and trading cards) for a friend and quite enjoyed being the first to<BR>
know amongst my peers ;)<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Living in the same city as the importer for the whole of Australia has<BR>
> it's benefits as I get to go to their annual overstock clearance and<BR>
> picked up 11 T4 books for 5 Australian dollars each. (Unfortunately it<BR>
> was before I joined the list and found out which ones aren't worth 5<BR>
> bucks.)<BR>
<BR>
Yes, their cat didn't have much by way of Crazy Specials for any of the<BR>
older Traveller items at those times either...<BR>
<BR>
- --  The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 20:55:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> If we imagine that the wave is a straight line comming from the top of<BR>
> the map of known space! If the wave was parabolic in shape, with an<BR>
> origin somewhere above the centre of the Vargr Extants <sp?> then it's<BR>
> possible that it could be close to the Imperium, without having spent as<BR>
> much time in the Consulate. Someone may need to check this theory, I<BR>
> don't have a map on me at the moment, and I am just making it up (like<BR>
> any good hadwaving ref!)<BR>
> My personal preference is for the straight line... easier to explain.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's a circular (spherical) curve. But with a radius measured<BR>
in kiloparsecs, the curvature isn't noticable, even on the big "known<BR>
space" map. <BR>
<BR>
*Any* other shape for the wavefront is implausible in the extreme.<BR>
Getting a non-spherical wavefront requires a distorting medium (yeah,<BR>
right) or multiple emitters. And the farther you get from multiple<BR>
emitters the move closely the front resembles that from a single emitter.<BR>
<BR>
I've got a *huge* hexmap of about 2/3rds of the galaxy. It's from the<BR>
old SPI game Outreach. All of known space will fit *easily* into one<BR>
hex. <BR>
<BR>
The galaxy is *big*. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:37:13 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Escaped chemists seek refuge in software<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:12:13 -0700<BR>
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> <BR>
> > Nick<BR>
> > (former chemist. Escaped alive.)<BR>
><BR>
> Please don't tell me you work in IT.  That would be TOO weird. I spent 3<BR>
> years as an analytical chemist and 6 as a toxicologist before figuring out<BR>
> there is no money in lab work.  I have since (last 6 years) moved over to<BR>
> IT.  No rubber gloves, I can eat my lunch without decontamating and have<BR>
> tripled my annual income.<BR>
<BR>
BS Chem (Analytical), 1985, hired as a software engineer at General<BR>
Dynamics, same year, never done a day of chemistry (for pay) since.  I<BR>
sense a pattern...<BR>
<BR>
> Escaped alive and am thriving.  I do sometime miss all the cool machines,<BR>
<BR>
Especially that one Hewlett Packard GC/MS unit...I never though lab<BR>
equipment could be sexy until that thang arrived.<BR>
<BR>
> but I can't think of a good reason to own a home mass spec or HPLC. And I<BR>
> have waaay too much bomb making and poison knowledge for my own good.<BR>
> Sadly, it's starting to fade away with time.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, but you never know when the stuff you *do* retain might come in<BR>
handy.  And you can impress people pronouncing the ingredients on cleaning<BR>
products, too. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:41:04 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph Kimball" <jekimball@prodigy.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
I've always heard the proper way to do this is to do the 'handling' while<BR>
still a liquid (as in dribble a bit down the stairs).  Unfortunately, my<BR>
chem teacher in H.S. was not up to this.<BR>
- - Joseph<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:09:07 +1200<BR>
> From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
> Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making<BR>
Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
><BR>
 <<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> >         p.s.  Don't ever try to make nitrogen tri-iodide.  It is a<BR>
primary<BR>
> > high explosive, and so unstable that the stresses induced by drying can<BR>
be<BR>
> > enough to cause it to detonate.  I understand that nearly every year a<BR>
> > couple of kids manage to blow themselves up in their basements making<BR>
this<BR>
> > stuff.<BR>
><BR>
> That's why we only made a small amount.<BR>
><BR>
> Seriously, when dry, the stuff is so unstable that it will explode if<BR>
> you think unhappy thoughts within a hundred meters of it....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:54:54 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Olegamer@aol.com asked:<BR>
>OK guys and gals, I have a question for the forum (gee that sounds Greek); my<BR>
>question is related to Classic Traveller - discounting the STRIKER miniature<BR>
>rules, how do most of you that referee handle vehicle combat?<BR>
<BR>
I use MT, which, effectively, incorporates the Striker system. Well, a<BR>
simplified version, anyway.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:43:28 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Escaped chemists seek refuge in software<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Especially that one Hewlett Packard GC/MS unit...I never though lab<BR>
> equipment could be sexy until that thang arrived.<BR>
<BR>
By "MS", I'm sure you mean that high-tech device which can tell the contents<BR>
of certain textbooks from their combustion by-products. I think it's<BR>
commonly referred to as a "Math Spectrometer."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:09:53 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
<BR>
When I played classic, I didn't own Striker. When situations arose for<BR>
hits on vehicles, I used the starship combat tables in book two to<BR>
resolve damage, converting to the approprate device in my head, and<BR>
resolved penetration the classic way, modifying the 'to-hit' number,<BR>
using personal armour as a guide. <BR>
<BR>
eg, personal weapon against tank amour... big negative mod, <BR>
...tank weapon against tank armour, same as personal gun vs combat<BR>
armour,  <BR>
...tank weapon against pernal armour, big positive modifier, with other<BR>
modifiers for speed, size of target, all made up on the fly. <BR>
<BR>
Its a bit abstract, but worked for me. <BR>
<BR>
Hope this helps..<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
<BR>
> >OK guys and gals, I have a question for the forum (gee that <BR>
> sounds Greek); my<BR>
> >question is related to Classic Traveller - discounting the <BR>
> STRIKER miniature<BR>
> >rules, how do most of you that referee handle vehicle combat?<BR>
> <BR>
> I use MT, which, effectively, incorporates the Striker system. Well, a<BR>
> simplified version, anyway.<BR>
> --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> ----------<BR>
> David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down <BR>
> (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
> http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       <BR>
> davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
> "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm <BR>
> of gravity"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:37:30 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums <BR>
<BR>
> From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <BR>
> The Civil War would also make an interesting multi-player wargame.  I<BR>
> don't think that it would be manageable at the scale of Fifth Frontier<BR>
> War.  I envision it having some of the feeling of Kingmaker.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, a Kingmaker like thing would be cool.<BR>
<BR>
It might be possible to do individual campaigns FFW style.  The FWs<BR>
themselves are pretty obvious!  <BR>
<BR>
So is Arbellatra vs Gustus:  Arbellatra starts at Depot/Vland, Gustus at<BR>
Capital, and the Antares Fleet (say) up in the top right hand corner. <BR>
Bella has to whack Gus before he is reinforced.  Bella and Soegz are really<BR>
good commanders, Gus is average, and the commanders of the Antares and<BR>
Vland Fleets are a bit dodgy.  Add rules for random reinforcements (from<BR>
other factions/fleets), desertions and defections, and special rules for<BR>
possibilities like the Archduke of Vland ceasing to be an "honoured guest"<BR>
of Arbellatra, and calling on the Vland Fleet to defect/desert.<BR>
<BR>
Another possibility would be Trillion Credit Squadron:  say during 608/609<BR>
you have a period in which local leaders (Noble and Naval) are privatising<BR>
the Imperial Fleets.  The result is a whole series of small to moderate<BR>
size engagements.  Potentially this could have been the bloodiest part of<BR>
the whole war, being spread across most of the Imperium, even if no really<BR>
huge engagements occurred.  (And it helps set up a nice warlordised,<BR>
anarchic Imperium for roleplaying campaigns.)<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3074<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3075</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/20/00 6:21:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 20 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3075<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
RE: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
RE: G-M50 Kanone Grav Assault Gun<BR>
RE: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3071<BR>
RE: Java (was Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?)<BR>
RE: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: Alternate Imperia<BR>
Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
Re: Empress Wave<BR>
RE: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
RE: Penguins<BR>
RE: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
RE: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 03:26:01 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
> > As I understand it, "pop" (UK) is fizzy drink, as in "a bottle of pop" =<BR>
> "soda"<BR>
> > (US).<BR>
<BR>
We say pop in Canada too. My friend went to Bosdton for his MA and they just<BR>
stared blankly at him when he asked what pop they had.<BR>
<BR>
> Thus I think you were right the first time, John - alcoholic "pop".<BR>
> > ["Soda" (Aust) = soda water, the unflavoured carbonated water favoured<BR>
by<BR>
> some<BR>
> > as a mixer. Blecch!].<BR>
<BR>
I like soda and it is important to know the difference. I don't want pop in<BR>
my scotch!<BR>
<BR>
> Soda is rarely used here in Q'ld as a word other than mixing drinks like<BR>
> "Scotch and soda,"... Otherwise, the beverage was simply soda water ("get<BR>
me<BR>
> a bottle of soda water while you are out dear, I wouldn't mind a class or<BR>
> three of scotch and soda tonight...").<BR>
<BR>
Herer in Canada too.<BR>
<BR>
> Soda water is also said to be good<BR>
> remedy for an "upset tummy"... it helps to settle it down for some reason?<BR>
<BR>
Because it is a mix of water and sodium bicarbonate, which is also known as<BR>
bicarbonate of soda. That is what people used to take for heartburn and<BR>
such.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:28:54 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
on 9/19/00 5:39 PM, John Groth at wombat@premier.net wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> <BR>
>> p.s.  Don't ever try to make nitrogen tri-iodide.  It is a primary<BR>
>> high explosive, and so unstable that the stresses induced by drying can be<BR>
>> enough to cause it to detonate.  I understand that nearly every year a<BR>
>> couple of kids manage to blow themselves up in their basements making this<BR>
>> stuff.<BR>
> <BR>
> That's why we only made a small amount.<BR>
> <BR>
> Seriously, when dry, the stuff is so unstable that it will explode if<BR>
> you think unhappy thoughts within a hundred meters of it....<BR>
> <BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
<BR>
Pikers, all of you.  I started with Nitrogen triiodide, moved up to silver<BR>
acetelyde, lead picrate and prussic acid, fulminate of mercury,<BR>
nitroglycerin, TNT, extracted RDX from hexamine fuel tabs, made LOTs of<BR>
napalm (steric acid type) and help build a flame thrower.  Made chlorine and<BR>
concentrated organophosphate insecticide into a mouse lethal brew.<BR>
<BR>
I still remember that VX nerve agent is<BR>
orthoethylS-2diisoprpylaminoethylmethylphosohonothiolate<BR>
<BR>
After spending 6 years as a toxicologist in a medical reference lab, I can<BR>
say with some confidence that I have yet to meet anyone who's seen more<BR>
human body fluids.  I also learned just about every commonly used procedure<BR>
for producing illicit drugs, and the trick people will try to hide the fact<BR>
in their drug test (it doesn't work, folks.  Best case, the drug can't be<BR>
identified, but they know the specimen has been tampered with.<BR>
<BR>
Had to get out.  Spent a short stint as an analytical chemist at a steel<BR>
mill (I now have a better appreciation for hell). Learned unix, NT and the<BR>
Mac, moved in IT and only occasionally look back.<BR>
<BR>
I still have my CRC out of some sentimental attachment; 56th edition.<BR>
<BR>
My wife, who I met in college, still marvels that I survived my<BR>
'experiments'.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  I have no idea.  But it is very strange and wonderful that we have<BR>
so many former chemists on the list (many who have oddly migrated to IT).<BR>
Some one should write a book: "How to turn your BS chem into a job in<BR>
computer technology".  I suppose it's all about minutae.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps we're drawn to Traveller over other RPGs for its realistic,<BR>
scientific feel.  Sure it's not perfect, but it feels real, IMHO.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps will all get together some day and consume a little C2H5OH, toast<BR>
Avogadro and his number, balance an equation or two.  Just for old time<BR>
sake.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:19:18 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
> From: "The Roc" <BR>
> Military Simulations<BR>
<BR>
Yes, this would be the way to go, I think.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:07:23 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Olegamer@aol.com [mailto:Olegamer@aol.com]<BR>
> Sent: 20 September 2000 00:24<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
> Subject: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> OK guys and gals, I have a question for the forum (gee that <BR>
> sounds Greek); my <BR>
> question is related to Classic Traveller - discounting the <BR>
> STRIKER miniature <BR>
> rules, how do most of you that referee handle vehicle combat? <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I use the Paranoia rules, disguised as Gurps Ve2 :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:03:37 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: G-M50 Kanone Grav Assault Gun<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2000 8:12 PM<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>
> Subject: RE: G-M50 Kanone Grav Assault Gun<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> While I like this, and your design for the Annic Nova (although I haven't<BR>
> seen the original source) I find dark blue text on a black background<BR>
> difficult to read.<BR>
> Dean<BR>
><BR>
Point taken re the colour scheme in the MT section, I shall change it in the<BR>
next few days to something more legible.<BR>
Antony<BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:03:34 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Yes you're right the doping compound cotaained powdered aluminium for<BR>
reflecivity, along with the iron oxides.<BR>
<BR>
Not exactly a stable combination<BR>
Antony<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:22:14 GMT<BR>
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3071<BR>
<BR>
In digest v199~3071, "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
asked<BR>
>Just how many former (or current) mad bomber are there on this list, <BR>
>anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Gentlebeings, I give you exhibit A, Isaac Azimov's book "Earth is room <BR>
Enough".  The story "The Dead Past", about the Chronoscope - a man builds a <BR>
'time viewer' even though most of the science behind Chronoscopy has been <BR>
declared illegal - he discovers that all science is interlinked and you <BR>
*cannot* 'ban' Bomb-making without some bright spark(!) realising that (say) <BR>
Organic Chemistry or the Combined Gas Laws allow the manufacture of devices <BR>
that can make a rather loud 'pop'...<BR>
<BR>
It also contains one of my favorite lines,<BR>
"I suppose it's a bit late to put the mushroom cloud back into the nice <BR>
shiny sphere"...<BR>
<BR>
Exhibit B was going to be Douglas Adams' character Dirk Gently but I thought <BR>
that was probably going to undermine the arguement rather than reinforce <BR>
it...<BR>
<BR>
Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, Leg-end in his own Lunchbox)<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:29:11 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Java (was Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?)<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> > A well written Java program, on a medium-to-high end desktop machine,<BR>
> > should run as fast as a similar program written in C/C++.<BR>
><BR>
> OK, then the problem is that I have never seen a well written java<BR>
> application.  I am currently working in a environment where 2 java based<BR>
> application are in use.  One of these was also originally<BR>
> available as a C++ based win32 application. The java version crawls.<BR>
<BR>
If it was ported from C++, that's hardly surprising. It's probably using<BR>
AWT1.0 event handling, because of it's similarity to Win32, and AWT1.0 event<BR>
handling is a dog.<BR>
<BR>
Its been obsolete for years, but many people still use it because of their<BR>
familiarity with Windows event handling.<BR>
<BR>
Also, most C++ programs I've seen ported from Java have huge amounts of<BR>
error-checking that are completely unneccessary in Java.<BR>
<BR>
Heck, most C++ programs I've seen are C programs written in C++, so are even<BR>
less of a match for Java, where everything is an object.<BR>
<BR>
What sort of app is it ? If you've got the source code, I could probably fix<BR>
it up for you and make it work faster.<BR>
<BR>
> And if java is not 'cross-platform', what's the point? Do we really need<BR>
> another language?<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it is pretty cross-platform if you know what you're doing, and<BR>
have compatible VM's  on each platform.<BR>
<BR>
But the _real_ point of Java is that it is a hell of a lot safer in the<BR>
hands of the average programer than C or C++, and development times are far<BR>
faster because it is safer.<BR>
<BR>
It's also the most strongly-typed commercial OO language available other<BR>
than perhaps Eiffel, if you can call that a commercial language yet, again<BR>
making it safer and faster for development.<BR>
<BR>
I write courses on Java, teach it, and have been involved in writing cross<BR>
platform Java apps for IBM(portable between OS390, AS400, AIX, OS/2 and NT),<BR>
and probably know at least as much about is as Ethan, though I've only<BR>
presented at two conferences, and a couple of free business breakfasts.<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav.  Is there any standardization in the 3I with regard to computer<BR>
> technology?  Will apps written for a LSP computer run on another vendor's<BR>
> box.  Does any one megacorp dominate the hardware or software industry of<BR>
> the 3?<BR>
<BR>
I'd say no one megacorp, but Imperial standards, which can of course be<BR>
enforced by the Navy if neccesaary, so have more force than international<BR>
standards today.<BR>
<BR>
 > An why has there been so little computer progress in in several thousand<BR>
> years, anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Vilani conservatism of course !<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Actually, I suspect that it is _because_ the Imperium has widely followed<BR>
standards.<BR>
No point in inovation unless you can make it a standard, and doing that<BR>
takes centuries of politicking and maneuvering.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:45:49 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
<BR>
Leslie Bates wrote :<BR>
> >Well, there is a dominating standard that has over 99% of the market<BR>
> >share.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Unfortunately, the owner of this standard is a Vilani megacorp...<BR>
><BR>
> The owner's name wouldn't happen to be "Vill" would it?<BR>
><BR>
> </FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=14><BIG><BIG><BIG><BR>
<BR>
Watch it, your name is only one letter removed from the Great Satan as well,<BR>
y'know.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:47:23 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> If it wasn't for Orycon's overly anal weapons policy (and I speak as<BR>
>> one of the folks who pushed for *some* sort of weapons policy in the<BR>
>> first place), I'd have made up a pair of spetsdods for wearing as part<BR>
>> of a hall costume years ago.<BR>
><BR>
> A reason I stopped attending.<BR>
<BR>
Well, having been involved with security for some of the earlier cons,<BR>
I have to state that a weapons policy *was* needed (I could tell you<BR>
stories...).<BR>
<BR>
But alas, the quite workable one of using "peace ties" that we tried<BR>
one year was dropped by the folks running security the next year, and<BR>
shortly after that the present policy was instituted.<BR>
<BR>
There are folks working on changing it. They are serving on con coms to<BR>
get the required "service time" to get a vote in OSFCI (the<BR>
organization that runs the cons). <BR>
<BR>
> Plus its a comparatively dull convention.<BR>
<BR>
Well, if you don't go, what do you expect? :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:51:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:45 PM 9/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Does this happen in every training cycle? 1980, Ft. Benning, Harmony church.<BR>
>>Same scenario, same tools. Do you ever miss the roaches scuttling out of the<BR>
>>showers when you turn on the lights?<BR>
><BR>
> I imagine theres always somebody who has never disrobed in front of others<BR>
> in his life.  To be honest, group showering was a little off-putting to me<BR>
> until I realized that it was five minutes a day when I could not be dropped<BR>
> for push-ups.<BR>
<BR>
I take it gym class wasn't required where you went to school? Or did<BR>
they have individual showers?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:55:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Just because it's coming from coreward doesn't mean it originated at the<BR>
> core...maybe it started much closer to the Consulate, triggered by the 6th or<BR>
> 7th core expedition.<BR>
<BR>
That's still one *hell* of a radius for the wavefront.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:59:00 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Alcopops???  Are we talking sweet things like bottled wine<BR>
>>coolers, or beercicles?<BR>
><BR>
> Another example of how America and Britain are two countries divided by a <BR>
> common language.<BR>
><BR>
> "Iced lolly" (UK) = icecream-on-a-stick (think: Paddle Pop, Cornetto, etc.<BR>
> Yum.). These can be called "ice blocks" (Aust), although we usually reserve <BR>
> that for flavoured ice on sticks. Or beersicles, if such things exist.<BR>
<BR>
Ice cream bars if its more or less icecream based. Popsicles if it's<BR>
more or less "flavored ice on a stick". Though there are "popsicles<BR>
that don't have the stick (basicly flavored & color sugar water in a<BR>
plastic wrapper)<BR>
<BR>
> "Sweets" (Aust) = "Dessert" (UK) [= ???? in US?]. Eg. ice-cream with <BR>
> flavoured topping.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like a sundae.<BR>
<BR>
> "Lollies" (UK) = "Sweets" (Aust) = "Candy" (US).<BR>
><BR>
> "Lollypop" (UK and Aust) = candy-on-a-stick, like an all-day sucker. And is <BR>
> the hardest English word for Japanese to say.<BR>
<BR>
Also American.<BR>
<BR>
> As I understand it, "pop" (UK) is fizzy drink, as in "a bottle of pop" = <BR>
> "soda" (US).<BR>
<BR>
In *some* parts of the US it's soda. Mostly East Coast. Out west it's<BR>
usually pop. Though "soda pop" works everywhere.<BR>
<BR>
> Thus I think you were right the first time, John - alcoholic "pop".<BR>
<BR>
Well, the local store is currently carrying "hard lemonade".<BR>
<BR>
> ["Soda" (Aust) = soda water, the unflavoured carbonated water favoured by <BR>
> some as a mixer. Blecch!].<BR>
<BR>
And there's also "soda" = "icecream and pop in a glass"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 02:54:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alternate Imperia<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>I've got most of it, and have been trying to put it together for months,<BR>
>but every time I start I have these mysterious blackouts and lose six or<BR>
>seven days...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Doug, Doug, Doug, how many times do we have to tell you, the Blue Oyster<BR>
Bar is not a place you should go to?<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:03:20 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:09:23 -0700<BR>
>From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
<BR>
>Along the same lines:  If Vilani are now highly influencial in the 3I, and<BR>
>the Vilani are very conservative culturally, why does TL in the rim<BR>
>(canonically) lag the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps because the cultural tradition that shaped Vilani conservatism<BR>
has been dead for 2000+ years?  In Milieu 1100 the Ziru Sirka is as<BR>
dead and gone as the Roman Empire is to us.  <BR>
<BR>
Sure, some Roman traditions have been preserved down to the 20th/21st<BR>
century; some people still learn Latin, Roman Law forms the basis of<BR>
many modern legal systems, and so on;  but that's hardly the same as<BR>
saying that Roman culture is still alive and well in modern Europe.<BR>
So why expect the same to be true of the Vilani?  As far as I know,<BR>
they're still human beings; they don't have a genetic predisposition<BR>
to conservatism...<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
(a comparison between the Restored Ziru Sirka in MT and Mussolini may<BR>
be apt here...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:03:23 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave<BR>
<BR>
Some thoughts:<BR>
<BR>
The message in "Survival Margin" refers to two Longbow stations going<BR>
off the air as the wave hit them.  It's quite possible for the wave to<BR>
hit them simultaneously - since Longbow is based on the<BR>
synthetic-aperture principle, presumably the stations would need to be<BR>
_parallel_ to the location being observed - ie, both equidistant from<BR>
the Galactic Core...<BR>
<BR>
"Regency Sourcebook" makes it clear that the Empress Wave was already<BR>
halfway across the Consulate in 1119, and due to hit the Imperial<BR>
border in 1205.  This strongly implies that the E-W is not dangerous<BR>
in itself, since the Consulate at that time was not in a state of<BR>
collapse.  The Zhodani problems began "several decades" before the New<BR>
Era, which I would estimate at 1160 or so.  Either whatever (or<BR>
whoever...) is causing the problem is trailing 50 or so lightyears<BR>
behind the Empress Wave and will hit the Regency in 1255, or it's<BR>
travelling faster than light and is gradually overtaking the Wave.  <BR>
<BR>
The other alternative is that the Empress Wave *is* the source of the<BR>
problems, but it has a delayed effect.  Maybe it only affects unborn<BR>
babies or germ plasm, so the true effects are not realised until the<BR>
previous generation are retired or dead and the affected children have<BR>
risen to positions of power and influence in society.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, there's a Challenge article by Dave Nilsen which explains<BR>
that he saw the artwork for the TNE cover (including the Lady in<BR>
Black) shortly before writing "Survival Margin", and he decided to<BR>
work the image into the book as Strephon's vision.  What the article<BR>
doesn't say is whether that was the origin of the entire concept of<BR>
the Empress Wave, or if it just determined the particular way it would<BR>
be presented.<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 23:16:59 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Sep 00, at 9:39, Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> > From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance [mailto:a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz]<BR>
<BR>
> > As soon as I read about the Empress Wave I dropped. It did <BR>
> > not require <BR>
> > you to suspend disbelief (as the Virus did), it required you <BR>
> > to climb to the <BR>
> > top of a very tall building and throw it bodily out the <BR>
> > window. Just some <BR>
> > problems:<BR>
<BR>
> Andrew, all problems have a handwave, just watch....<BR>
<BR>
> < starts waving hands so furiously that flight is achieved!><BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
Truely spectacular, I bow to your handwaving. If you were going to try to <BR>
reconcile the EW, thats one of the better efforts I've seen<BR>
<BR>
> My final comment is, if you don't like the empress wave, don't have it<BR>
> in your campaign. I am presently designing a campaign where the virus<BR>
> was never let loose, and am debating whether to toss out the Empress<BR>
> wave as well.<BR>
<BR>
My "end of the Rebellion" senario goes like this. The war continues. By <BR>
1140 the Imperium has collapsed in all but name. All that remains is a <BR>
shattered corpse, but the fighting continues with most of the various <BR>
military forces becoming a new bread of Revers.<BR>
<BR>
The Solomani halt their advance to concentrate on reducing the Vegan <BR>
pocket. The Solomani heartland is relatively undamaged and whats left of <BR>
the Imperium is just not worth conquering. however with the removal of the <BR>
Imperial threat, the Party can no longer keep the Nationalists and <BR>
Democratists in check and a coup followed by a brief but bloody civil war <BR>
follows. The Party falls, a settlement is negotiated with the Vegans and the <BR>
Solomani turn away from the shattered remains of the Imperium to <BR>
concentrate Rimward.<BR>
<BR>
Craig survive relatively intact and are strong enough to keep the Aslan from <BR>
moving in to pick over the corpse of the Imperium. Norris manages to keep <BR>
Deneb intact and starts to institute long overdue reforms to the Imperial <BR>
system (see RSB). Meanwhile a charismatic leader rises amongst the <BR>
Zhodani nobles. He/She preaches "liberation" for the Proles, that all should <BR>
have access to psionic training and government. Despite attempts to <BR>
supress the movement, it catches hold. First amongst some Nobles and <BR>
Intendents but gradually spreading to the Proles (this movement can start <BR>
well before the 5th FFW with few difficulties). By 1135 the movement has <BR>
widespread support and Zhodani society begins to unravel as it struggles <BR>
to find a way to deal with this movement. By 1150 the Zhodani are in real <BR>
problems.<BR>
<BR>
The Vargr raid deep into the former Imperium further spreading chaos. <BR>
Occassionally they stay as conquerors or colonists. The K'Kree take the <BR>
opportunity to crush a few Imperial Client States they've had their eyes on <BR>
for some time, but otherwise do little. Likewise the Hivers.<BR>
<BR>
Think I've covered everyone.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 23:29:15 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote :<BR>
> > I imagine theres always somebody who has never disrobed in<BR>
> > front of others in his life.  To be honest, group showering<BR>
> > was a little off-putting to me until I realized that it was<BR>
> > five minutes a day when I could not be dropped for push-ups.<BR>
><BR>
> I take it gym class wasn't required where you went to school? Or did<BR>
> they have individual showers?<BR>
<BR>
Jeez, Leonard, I thought you said you were from a poor area ?<BR>
<BR>
Where I went to school, we had "gym class" (though we called it P.E, for<BR>
Physical Education) but we didn't have _any_ showers.<BR>
<BR>
We just did PE in our school shorts and vests, puttting our shirts back on<BR>
over our vests after we had finished.<BR>
<BR>
Hell, I'd never even had a shower before I joined the military, showers were<BR>
new-fangled things that only a few houses had, we alwas had _baths_.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
Vist Munden's Bar at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:03:09 -0400<BR>
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
At 11:16 PM 09/20/2000 +1200, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<SNIP><BR>
<BR>
>Meanwhile a charismatic leader rises amongst the<BR>
>Zhodani nobles. He/She preaches "liberation" for the Proles, that all should<BR>
>have access to psionic training and government. Despite attempts to<BR>
>supress the movement, it catches hold. First amongst some Nobles and<BR>
>Intendents but gradually spreading to the Proles (this movement can start<BR>
>well before the 5th FFW with few difficulties). By 1135 the movement has<BR>
>widespread support and Zhodani society begins to unravel as it struggles<BR>
>to find a way to deal with this movement. By 1150 the Zhodani are in real<BR>
>problems.<BR>
<BR>
I once used M.K. Wren's trilogy of 'The Sword of the Lamb', 'The Shadow of <BR>
the Swan', and 'The Lair of the Wolf', as a model for changes in Zho <BR>
society.  This seems to dovetail with your statement's above.<BR>
<BR>
If you've never read these books, go out and get them ASAP.  The focus more <BR>
on story than technology, but technology in the end does play a role.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Kurt Feltenberger<BR>
<BR>
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>
    may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>
      ~Stephen Decatur<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:11:11 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
> As I understand it, "pop" (UK) is fizzy drink, as in "a bottle of pop" = "<BR>
> soda"<BR>
>  (US). Thus I think you were right the first time, John - alcoholic "pop".<BR>
>  ["Soda" (Aust) = soda water, the unflavoured carbonated water favoured by <BR>
> some<BR>
>  as a mixer. Blecch!].<BR>
<BR>
There is no agreement on this in the US. Non alky carboned beverages ="pop" <BR>
iin some regions, "soda" or "sodey" in others. In New England (Boston at <BR>
least) a soft drink is called a "tonic" so never order a gin and tonic in <BR>
Boston unless the bar/waitperson is cosmopolitan. US culture is far from <BR>
being as monolithic as some people think.<BR>
<BR>
Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:17:39 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > As I understand it, "pop" (UK) is fizzy drink, as in "a <BR>
> bottle of pop" = "<BR>
> > soda"<BR>
> >  (US). Thus I think you were right the first time, John - <BR>
> alcoholic "pop".<BR>
> >  ["Soda" (Aust) = soda water, the unflavoured carbonated <BR>
> water favoured by <BR>
> > some<BR>
> >  as a mixer. Blecch!].<BR>
> <BR>
> There is no agreement on this in the US. Non alky carboned <BR>
> beverages ="pop" <BR>
> iin some regions, "soda" or "sodey" in others. In New England <BR>
> (Boston at <BR>
> least) a soft drink is called a "tonic" so never order a gin <BR>
> and tonic in <BR>
> Boston unless the bar/waitperson is cosmopolitan. US culture <BR>
> is far from <BR>
> being as monolithic as some people think.<BR>
> <BR>
> Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
No agreement in the UK either. As far as I'm concerned, 'pop' is only used<BR>
to refer to soft drinks by the elderly, or as an element of the word<BR>
'alcopop', or as slang for music currently in the charts...pop music :).<BR>
Softdrinks either get called 'soft drinks' generically, or by their trade<BR>
names. ANd don't ask what being 'Tango'd' means :><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3075<BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 20 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3076<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: "pop"<BR>
RE: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
RE: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
Number of the what?<BR>
You'll *KNOW* when you've been Tango'd!<BR>
RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Re: Computers in 3I<BR>
Re: "Pop"<BR>
CT Exchange Rate tables<BR>
Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Nomic PBEM [off topic?]<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Escaped chemists seek refuge in software<BR>
RE: "pop"<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: "Pop"<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Escaped chemists seek refuge in software<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:27:40 +0100<BR>
From: Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com<BR>
Subject: RE: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
Dean Jones wrote:<BR>
> ANd don't ask what being 'Tango'd' means :><BR>
<BR>
So, how many UK TMLers got the Tango voodoo doll?  (Okay, I admit<BR>
I was one ... I wish I'd taped  the  phone  message  you  had  to<BR>
listen to, it was priceless.)<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:58:11 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
<BR>
The best system I've seen for this was in an old White Dwarf article.<BR>
I can't remember the details, and the issue in question is probably<BR>
in storage somewhere. Basicaly it was something like this :<BR>
<BR>
To hit a tank with a tank main weapon : 8+<BR>
Modifiers : + Gunnery skill; +1 per TL over 6; -1 per 1km range;<BR>
There were also modifiers for movement and terrain.<BR>
<BR>
Chance of a kill (asuming you hit) : 8+<BR>
Modifiers : +1 per TL advantage of the firing gun; -1 per TL<BR>
disadvantage of the firing gun; -2 if firing from a light tank;<BR>
+2 if you are a heavy tank firing on a light tank or APC.<BR>
<BR>
LAW style weapons use the same process above, but are at -2 to hit<BR>
and to kill.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone in a tank that's killed rolls 8+ to survive, and if they do<BR>
bails out and takes 3D wounds.<BR>
<BR>
I've basicaly made up a system in the same style as the article. It<BR>
was a nice simple system, but perfectly adequate for most roleplaying<BR>
situations. I can't remember if the article came out before or after<BR>
Striker. Probably about the same time. Andy Slack might remember, in<BR>
fact he may well have written it himself.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Simon Hibbs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:41:17 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
At 09:39 AM 9/20/00 +1000, Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>> 2 - For a phenomenon travelling at the speed of light to be <BR>
>> approximately <BR>
>> 86 light years away from the Imperium in 1119, it would have had to <BR>
>> entered the Zhodani Consulate in in approximately 735. <BR>
>> Therefore, by the <BR>
>> time the Zhodani opened the 3rd Frontier War (979), the Wave <BR>
>> had effected <BR>
>> roughly 60% of the Consulate<BR>
><BR>
>If we imagine that the wave is a straight line comming from the top of<BR>
>the map of known space! If the wave was parabolic in shape, with an<BR>
>origin somewhere above the centre of the Vargr Extants <sp?> then it's<BR>
>possible that it could be close to the Imperium, without having spent as<BR>
>much time in the Consulate. Someone may need to check this theory, I<BR>
>don't have a map on me at the moment, and I am just making it up (like<BR>
>any good hadwaving ref!)<BR>
>My personal preference is for the straight line... easier to explain.<BR>
<BR>
Instead of an omnidirectional transmission, we could be seeing a speading<BR>
effect similar to that of a Laser or microwave beam traveling through deep<BR>
space.<BR>
<BR>
The wave could miss a large part of Zhodani space and still hit the Regency.<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:44:20 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Number of the what?<BR>
<BR>
At 09:45 PM 9/20/00 +1200, Frankie wrote:<BR>
>Leslie Bates wrote :<BR>
>> >Well, there is a dominating standard that has over 99% of the market<BR>
>> >share.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >Unfortunately, the owner of this standard is a Vilani megacorp...<BR>
>><BR>
>> The owner's name wouldn't happen to be "Vill" would it?<BR>
>><BR>
>> </FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=14><BIG><BIG><BIG><BR>
><BR>
>Watch it, your name is only one letter removed from the Great Satan as well,<BR>
>y'know.<BR>
><BR>
>Frankie<BR>
<BR>
I checked my number, it's 665.<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:39:43 GMT<BR>
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: You'll *KNOW* when you've been Tango'd!<BR>
<BR>
In mail, "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<SNIP>><BR>
>No agreement in the UK either. As far as I'm concerned, 'pop' is only used<BR>
>to refer to soft drinks by the elderly, or as an element of the word<BR>
>'alcopop', or as slang for music currently in the charts...pop music :).<BR>
>Softdrinks either get called 'soft drinks' generically, or by their trade<BR>
>names. ANd don't ask what being 'Tango'd' means :><BR>
<</SNIP>>.<BR>
<BR>
In certain circles, a 'Tango' is what some might call an "illuminated" <BR>
object - no, not someone with connections to strange conspiracies but <BR>
something on the wrong end of a targetting system... ie a Target.  So, when <BR>
one of my aquiantances drops an LGB on you, "You'll *KNOW* when you've been <BR>
Tango'd!"<BR>
<BR>
Oh, an 'Alcopop' was used in the context of "fizzyglug with added alcohol", <BR>
just to clear that one up...<BR>
<BR>
Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, who knows some *very* strange people...)<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 07:41:10 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Alternate Imperiums (Long)<BR>
<BR>
Go for it! It sounds like a great idea.<BR>
<BR>
I ran a few games in that area that became the 'rift' a while ago...<BR>
<BR>
- ---<BR>
At GenCon UK I briefly talked to Andy Lilly about an idea for an<BR>
alternate post rebellion setting.<BR>
<BR>
Basically, virus was never released, the Research station being<BR>
destroyed in the battle between Dulinor's Coronation Fleet and Lucans<BR>
defensive forces. Both Dulinor and Lucan fought themselves to a<BR>
standstill over the next few months, and their war ravaged economies<BR>
collapsed under the pressures of Hard Times, as did most of the other<BR>
Former Imperial Factions, Deneb excluded.<BR>
<BR>
Into the power vacuum step The Regency and the Solomani. Vargr raiders<BR>
still ravage Corridor, Vland, Lishun and Antares for a few years,<BR>
picking the flesh of the corpse of Hard Times, until there was little<BR>
left to do except settle. Aslan Ihatei cross into The Spinward and rim<BR>
ward parts of former Imperial territory in Verge and Ilelish (as<BR>
expansion into the Spinward Marches is blocked by the still strong<BR>
Regency, and ventures into Reavers Deep and Daibei are blocked by the<BR>
Solomani). The Regency establish relations with the remnants of<BR>
Strephon's stronghold in Corridor and Gushemege and send forces across<BR>
the rift using secret caches to help bolster the defences.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:03:44 EDT<BR>
From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/20/00 8:14:01 AM Central Daylight Time, GDWGAMES@aol.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy>><BR>
<BR>
and in New London / Groton Connecticut, home of the US submarine service, its <BR>
called a "grinder."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:11:47 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Computers in 3I<BR>
<BR>
>From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Computers in 3I (was: Re: Java)<BR>
...<BR>
>Perhaps because the cultural tradition that shaped Vilani conservatism<BR>
>has been dead for 2000+ years?  In Milieu 1100 the Ziru Sirka is as<BR>
>dead and gone as the Roman Empire is to us. <BR>
<BR>
  The ZS lost power, but the civilization it represented was never<BR>
destroyed, as Roman culture most assuredly was (in any meaningful<BR>
sense - Church liturgy not counting) in Western Europe.<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:14:23 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: "Pop"<BR>
<BR>
Regarding different uses of the word "pop" in the US, I had an interesting<BR>
experience recently that drove that home.  <BR>
<BR>
I recently visited Florida from my home in Montreal, where we call<BR>
soft-drinks soft-drinks and not pop, soda or anything else (okay,<BR>
sometimes we'll use the generic "Coke...".  Being in the states, I asked a<BR>
hotel clerk if there was a "pop machine" around, because that's what most<BR>
of the americans I had met called the stuff.  He looked confused for a<BR>
second, and then smiled and asked if I was from New England.  It came out<BR>
that in Florida they call it soda or soft-drink, it's only the "Yankees"<BR>
that call it pop.  Hmm...<BR>
<BR>
On a related note, my gaming group has come up with a classification<BR>
scheme for soft-drinks based on color and "exoticism".  That is:<BR>
<BR>
Dark Generic (DG):  Coke, Pepsi, RC, etc...<BR>
Clear Generic (CG): 7UP, Sprite, etc...<BR>
Dark Exotic (DE): Root beer, cherry coke, etc...<BR>
Clear Exotic (CE):  Cream soda, Ginger ale, etc...<BR>
<BR>
Example:  "Pass me the DG."  Because there's rarely more than one of each<BR>
(we rarely buy more than one type of DG for instance), this works very<BR>
well. One need not remember which exact brand was gotten (the cheapest<BR>
that week, usually), so it saves on some mental energy better expened on<BR>
gaming!<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:40:11 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: CT Exchange Rate tables<BR>
<BR>
  Has anyone got any idea which of the three (?) versions of the <BR>
Exchange Rate tables in CT is authoritative?<BR>
<BR>
  We've got the one in the TRADE AND COMMERCE article in JTAS #4,<BR>
Striker Book: 2, and Trillion Credit Squadron's. Striker is the<BR>
one that deviates, in that the fall-off per TL inferiority is 0.10<BR>
CrImp rather 0.05 in the other two sources - i.e., TL 9 (port A)<BR>
money trades at CrImp (F:A) 0.40 in Striker rather than 0.70.<BR>
<BR>
  Comments?<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:55:40 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
>Yes, their cat didn't have much by way of Crazy Specials for any of the<BR>
>older Traveller items at those times either...<BR>
<BR>
 If MY cat were having "Crazy Specials" for (or on) my older Traveller items, <BR>
it'd mean a quick boot out the door for the purr-meister...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:23:17 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Soda water is also said to be good<BR>
>> remedy for an "upset tummy"... it helps to settle it down for some reason?<BR>
><BR>
> Because it is a mix of water and sodium bicarbonate, which is also known as<BR>
> bicarbonate of soda. That is what people used to take for heartburn and<BR>
> such.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. No sodium bicarb in soda water. Just CO2 dissolved in water. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:24:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Pikers, all of you.  I started with Nitrogen triiodide, moved up to silver<BR>
> acetelyde, <BR>
<BR>
No copper acetylide? Much easier (or at least *cheaper*) to make. <BR>
<BR>
> lead picrate<BR>
<BR>
No azides?<BR>
<BR>
> in their drug test (it doesn't work, folks.  Best case, the drug can't be<BR>
> identified, but they know the specimen has been tampered with.<BR>
<BR>
There's a method that works fairly well. It's used by some athletes.<BR>
Would you believe using a long needle to *inject* clean urine into the<BR>
bladder before the test? Supposed to be painful as hell. Serves 'em right!<BR>
<BR>
> Had to get out.  Spent a short stint as an analytical chemist at a steel<BR>
> mill (I now have a better appreciation for hell).<BR>
<BR>
Remember, Hell in some places is *cold*...<BR>
<BR>
> I still have my CRC out of some sentimental attachment; 56th edition.<BR>
<BR>
I bought the 79th a few months back. It's just to *useful* (especially<BR>
for discussions *here*) to do without. BTW, it's avaialable on CD-ROM, too.<BR>
<BR>
> My wife, who I met in college, still marvels that I survived my<BR>
> 'experiments'.<BR>
<BR>
So do I. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:  I have no idea.  But it is very strange and wonderful that we have<BR>
> so many former chemists on the list (many who have oddly migrated to IT).<BR>
> Some one should write a book: "How to turn your BS chem into a job in<BR>
> computer technology".  I suppose it's all about minutae.<BR>
<BR>
I never got beyond high school chemisrty. Still, I know enough to be<BR>
dangerous. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:17:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Yes you're right the doping compound cotaained powdered aluminium for<BR>
> reflecivity, along with the iron oxides.<BR>
><BR>
> Not exactly a stable combination<BR>
<BR>
It's the sort of thing that happens when you don't run things past all<BR>
the experts. Iron oxide and aluminum powder are well known as pigments<BR>
for paints. So unless someone with the right knowledge "set" was<BR>
involved, there'd be no reason to suspect a problem.<BR>
<BR>
Sort of like the common (but near fatal) string of thoughts:<BR>
<BR>
Ammonia cleans pretty good.<BR>
Bleach cleans pretty good.<BR>
Hey, I bet if I mix them it'll *really* clean!<BR>
<BR>
This notion has hospitalized a lot of folks. So see, the result gives<BR>
off toxic fumes. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:14:03 +0100<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Nomic PBEM [off topic?]<BR>
<BR>
Is there anyone who would be interested in joining a game of Nomic which is<BR>
looking to get going again after its summer hiatus?<BR>
<BR>
Nomic, for those who don't know is a game where the rules of the game are<BR>
about changing the rules of the game (it's actually quite fun and not THAT<BR>
complex once you've read the rules twice).  The game we're playing isn't<BR>
Traveller based - although Nomic could be adapted in a Traveller version I<BR>
guess but it's great for practising all those political intrigues and<BR>
lawyer type things if that's your cup of Traveller tea (hence I'm not sure<BR>
if this is off topic or not).<BR>
<BR>
It's not a high volume PBEM we manage perhaps a turn or two a week (a turn<BR>
might consist of half a dozen to a dozen emails) with the odd flurry.  The<BR>
play has been pretty 'gentle' thus far (i.e. we're not all rules lawyers<BR>
and out for each other's throats).  It's tended toward a sociable<BR>
atmosphere where we explore the possibilities with the game.  The rules (as<BR>
they stand at present) might admit a winner in the next few months or they<BR>
might not!  Newcomers stand about as much chance of winning as those in<BR>
from the start.<BR>
<BR>
If anyone is interested please email me off list with the subject NOMIC (in<BR>
the unlikely event of a rush it will have to be first come first served)<BR>
and a brief line about why you'd be interested in playing this fascinating<BR>
game.<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
timothy.collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:18:25 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
That whole region calls 'em grinders, at least as far south as NYC and<BR>
Joisey. We have a couple of places here in Tucson run by East Coast<BR>
expats that call them that. <BR>
<BR>
CardSharks@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 9/20/00 8:14:01 AM Central Daylight Time, GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy>><BR>
> <BR>
> and in New London / Groton Connecticut, home of the US submarine service, its<BR>
> called a "grinder."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:20 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <E5F33EAB0BD5D31196DA009027E03E5527548A@crater.odetics.com><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
I am not alone :-)<BR>
<BR>
Memories of....<BR>
<BR>
... having a chemistry teacher who paced up and down when she taught - so <BR>
I carefully and thoughtfully provided her with some nitrogen tri-iodide to <BR>
walk on...<BR>
<BR>
... that same teacher retaliating by putting some more on the students' <BR>
chairs the next class; they came in, sat down and stood up again sharpish! <BR>
(but she forgot I sat at the back on my own and missed my chair)...<BR>
<BR>
... and that teacher again not falling for my innocent response to her <BR>
enquiry about the reflux bubbling away in the corner ("Oh, just nitrating <BR>
some di-nitro-toluene...") [sorry out-dated terminology - should be <BR>
di-nitro-methyl-benzene - but it was a long time ago!]...<BR>
<BR>
... having rather a lot of fun with fireworks, like the "oh dear, this <BR>
rocket has lost its stick, so I'll just add a banger and another rocket" <BR>
resulting in something which, erm, rather, erm, annoyed the local air <BR>
traffic control...<BR>
<BR>
... having rather a lot of fun on an army exercise with a box of 50 <BR>
thunderflashes handed to me with the immortal words "And we don't want <BR>
them back"...<BR>
<BR>
... and waking up in my tent the next morning wondering what the stone I'd <BR>
been sleeping on was - ooops, a thunderflash left in my pocket...<BR>
<BR>
... and many more tales. And that even before I get onto movie <BR>
pyrotechnics!<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
TechSgt Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:27:27 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Escaped chemists seek refuge in software<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:43:28 -0700<BR>
> From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
> <BR>
> Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Especially that one Hewlett Packard GC/MS unit...I never thought lab<BR>
> > equipment could be sexy until that thang arrived.<BR>
> <BR>
> By "MS", I'm sure you mean that high-tech device which can tell the<BR>
> contents of certain textbooks from their combustion by-products. I think<BR>
> it's commonly referred to as a "Math Spectrometer." <BR>
<BR>
Ow.  Now I need a little TLC.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:17:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
At 02:17 PM 9/20/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>No agreement in the UK either. As far as I'm concerned, 'pop' is only used<BR>
>to refer to soft drinks by the elderly, or as an element of the word<BR>
>'alcopop', or as slang for music currently in the charts...pop music :).<BR>
>Softdrinks either get called 'soft drinks' generically, or by their trade<BR>
>names. ANd don't ask what being 'Tango'd' means :><BR>
<BR>
Another important lesson:  Never take an Australian to a baseball game<BR>
without warning them about the 7th inning stretch.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:26:43<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 11:51 PM 9/19/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I take it gym class wasn't required where you went to school? Or did<BR>
>they have individual showers?<BR>
<BR>
The showers at Leigh High were much larger, and I tended to take PE during<BR>
first period, when it was almost deserted.<BR>
<BR>
The showers on Sand Hill were.. remember, remember.. ah!  Six semi-stalls,<BR>
each with about enough room to turn around in, and a dressing area about<BR>
the size of a small walk-in closet.  You had about three minutes to lather<BR>
up and rinse before people started complaining.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, the memories...  :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:19:10<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Pop"<BR>
<BR>
At 11:14 AM 9/20/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>On a related note, my gaming group has come up with a classification<BR>
>scheme for soft-drinks based on color and "exoticism".  That is:<BR>
<BR>
My wife and I both drink Coke, but she prefers Diet.  We refer to her drink<BR>
as "unleaded."<BR>
<BR>
A typical resturant event for us is to switch drinks after the wait-being<BR>
gets them mixed up.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:27:16 -0400<BR>
From: "James Fleming" <blackjack@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson replies:<BR>
> That whole region calls 'em grinders, at least as far south as NYC and<BR>
> Joisey. We have a couple of places here in Tucson run by East Coast<BR>
> expats that call them that.<BR>
><BR>
> CardSharks@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > In a message dated 9/20/00 8:14:01 AM Central Daylight Time,<BR>
GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> > writes:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > << Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > and in New London / Groton Connecticut, home of the US submarine<BR>
service, its<BR>
> > called a "grinder."<BR>
<BR>
Depends on where you are.  In South Jersey and Philadelphia we call them<BR>
hoagies.  What we call grinders are pretty much hoagies on grilled italian<BR>
long rolls.  Unless you're talking about the navy, the term 'sub' will get<BR>
you many a mean look in some parts of Philly.<BR>
<BR>
Jim Fleming<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:41:22 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:28:54 -0700<BR>
> From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> <BR>
> I still have my CRC out of some sentimental attachment; 56th edition.<BR>
<BR>
I still have the one I won in a high school ACS competition...don't recall<BR>
the edition number (shame!), but it was whatever was current in 1979.<BR>
<BR>
> My wife, who I met in college, still marvels that I survived my<BR>
> 'experiments'.<BR>
<BR>
That's one of the main reasons I got out of chemistry.  I had great<BR>
enthusiasm for the subject, but my lab skills were frankly horrible.<BR>
Being mildly klutzy is okay in normal life; doing it while playing with<BR>
chlorosulfonic acid is *not* okay.  I routinely had tiny holes riddling my<BR>
jeans and shirts from various splatters.  I had orange fingers the whole<BR>
summer I worked with potassium dichromate.  Staying with chemistry was<BR>
pretty clearly a lifespan-shortening option.<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:  I have no idea.  But it is very strange and wonderful that we have<BR>
> so many former chemists on the list (many who have oddly migrated to IT).<BR>
<BR>
I actually believe that some of the thinking styles you need as a chemist<BR>
(visualizing structures and relationships, for example) are similar to<BR>
those that make a good programmer. <BR>
<BR>
> Some one should write a book: "How to turn your BS chem into a job in<BR>
> computer technology".  I suppose it's all about minutae.<BR>
<BR>
For me, it was all about graduating in '85, when the defense companies<BR>
were hiring anyone who registered a pulse for any job they cared to name. :)<BR>
<BR>
> Perhaps we're drawn to Traveller over other RPGs for its realistic,<BR>
> scientific feel.  Sure it's not perfect, but it feels real, IMHO.<BR>
<BR>
That's definitely what did it for me.  The funny thing is that I'm quite<BR>
convinced that 57th century tech will be "indistinguishable from magic",<BR>
and that humans will have converted themselves into something more or less<BR>
unrecognizable by then; but I still love the Traveller model of "1975 plus<BR>
antigrav, fusion, and jump drive".  It's the same feeling I had about the<BR>
old Tomorrowland at Disneyland; sort of a retro future.<BR>
<BR>
> Perhaps will all get together some day and consume a little C2H5OH,<BR>
> toast Avogadro and his number, balance an equation or two.  Just for old<BR>
> time sake. <BR>
<BR>
You're on!  (And remember, if you're not part of the solution, you're part<BR>
of the precipitate.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:43:56 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> At 11:51 PM 9/19/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I take it gym class wasn't required where you went to school? Or did<BR>
> >they have individual showers?<BR>
<BR>
I dunno about Doug's school, and I am a gurrrl, but at my school you often<BR>
didn't get sweaty enough during PE to need a shower.  I think I took one<BR>
twice during the entire three years I was there, and one time it was<BR>
because I had fallen in mud.<BR>
<BR>
And I'm a *very* fastidious person.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:45:11 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Escaped chemists seek refuge in software<BR>
<BR>
Someone wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > By "MS", I'm sure you mean that high-tech device which can tell the<BR>
> > contents of certain textbooks from their combustion by-products. I think<BR>
> > it's commonly referred to as a "Math Spectrometer." <BR>
<BR>
Sounds like Teenagers From Outer Space material to me!<BR>
<BR>
kirichan ^_^<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3076<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3077</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 20 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3077<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: Escaped chemists (wandering OT into downright sillyness)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3075<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
Re: "Pop"<BR>
Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3075<BR>
Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
re: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire [was Computers in 3I]<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
RE: Deckplan formats<BR>
Imperial Squadrons.<BR>
RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:48:15 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > My wife, who I met in college, still marvels that I survived my<BR>
> > 'experiments'.<BR>
> <BR>
> That's one of the main reasons I got out of chemistry.  I had great<BR>
> enthusiasm for the subject, but my lab skills were frankly horrible.<BR>
> Being mildly klutzy is okay in normal life; doing it while playing with<BR>
> chlorosulfonic acid is *not* okay.  I routinely had tiny holes riddling my<BR>
> jeans and shirts from various splatters.  I had orange fingers the whole<BR>
> summer I worked with potassium dichromate.  Staying with chemistry was<BR>
> pretty clearly a lifespan-shortening option.<BR>
> <BR>
This makes me feel so much better.<BR>
<BR>
I adored chemistry but I felt like I had to give it up in college.  My<BR>
depth perception and binocular vision are not so hot (I don't drive<BR>
either) and I still have scars on one arm that are not normally<BR>
noticeable, but turn fire red if exposed to sunlight, from a lab accident<BR>
my freshman year. <BR>
<BR>
If I hadn't been wearing a padded bra under my t-shirt it would have been<BR>
a lot lot worse...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:53:59 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
> ... having rather a lot of fun on an army exercise with a box of 50<BR>
> thunderflashes handed to me with the immortal words "And we don't want<BR>
> them back"...<BR>
<BR>
Got to love the military.  When we did night fire, I and a buddy were<BR>
magazine loaders.  Since we were th last to fire, we had to use up all the<BR>
tracer ammo "we don't want it back".  We had the barrels of our M16s<BR>
smoking, and little sparlky bits were coming out the muzzle (chrome plating,<BR>
probably)<BR>
><BR>
> ... and waking up in my tent the next morning wondering what the stone I'd<BR>
> been sleeping on was - ooops, a thunderflash left in my pocket...<BR>
><BR>
> ... and many more tales. And that even before I get onto movie<BR>
> pyrotechnics!<BR>
<BR>
I once gave my wife an HC smoke grenade for some college fun and suggested<BR>
she pop it outsite the administtration building.  Now HC smoke is not like<BR>
an M18 colored smoke grenade.  It's for creating a smoke screen and burns<BR>
for at least 90 seconds and generates thousands of cubic feet of dense<BR>
smoke.<BR>
<BR>
I remember quite well the look of horror on her face as the vast cloud<BR>
completely covered the Gonzaga U admin building, then drifted toward down<BR>
town, stopping traffic <grin><BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:58:17 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
> That's one of the main reasons I got out of chemistry.  I had great<BR>
> enthusiasm for the subject, but my lab skills were frankly horrible.<BR>
> Being mildly klutzy is okay in normal life; doing it while playing with<BR>
> chlorosulfonic acid is *not* okay.  I routinely had tiny holes riddling my<BR>
> jeans and shirts from various splatters.  I had orange fingers the whole<BR>
> summer I worked with potassium dichromate.  Staying with chemistry was<BR>
> pretty clearly a lifespan-shortening option.<BR>
<BR>
I wasn't worried about reagants, but rather blood born pathogens.  Load a<BR>
big Hitachi Autoanalyzer and you exposed yourself (potentially) to the<BR>
problems of 340 people--each run.<BR>
<BR>
> You're on!  (And remember, if you're not part of the solution, you're part<BR>
> of the precipitate.)<BR>
<BR>
<grin>  Haven't hear that one in years.  Right now I'm more of a colloid.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:51:20 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
At 23:18 -0400 19/9/00,  "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au> wrote:<BR>
>DIf you want to try, I'd support you.  This mob is probably the largest game<BR>
>importer in Oz and I have dealt with them for more years than I can<BR>
>remember, starting out with ordering miniatures and  Traveller LBB's, and my<BR>
>sub to JTAS in the good old days.  They are currently advertising in their<BR>
>Spring 2000 catalogue, the three CT reprint books.  They have always been<BR>
>Traveller friendly in the past.<BR>
<BR>
Consider this noted - I'll let you know where this gets to.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:58:41 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
At 9:18 -0400 20/9/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
> > Thus I think you were right the first time, John - alcoholic "pop".<BR>
><BR>
>Well, the local store is currently carrying "hard lemonade".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Didn't we do this for Cider (alcoholic apple drink in UK) last year?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:08:51 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Escaped chemists (wandering OT into downright sillyness)<BR>
<BR>
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Escaped chemists seek refuge in software<BR>
><BR>
>> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:43:28 -0700<BR>
>> From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>> <BR>
>> Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > Especially that one Hewlett Packard GC/MS unit...I never thought lab<BR>
>> > equipment could be sexy until that thang arrived.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> By "MS", I'm sure you mean that high-tech device which can tell the<BR>
>> contents of certain textbooks from their combustion by-products. I think<BR>
>> it's commonly referred to as a "Math Spectrometer." <BR>
><BR>
>Ow.  Now I need a little TLC.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
	Does that make an AA spec. a device used by a certain 12-step<BR>
program to catch backsliders?<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - they just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:17:14 EDT<BR>
From: TRiepe5898@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3075<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Meanwhile a charismatic leader rises amongst the <BR>
> Zhodani nobles. He/She preaches "liberation" for the Proles, that all <BR>
should <BR>
> have access to psionic training and government. Despite attempts to <BR>
> supress the movement, it catches hold. First amongst some Nobles and <BR>
> Intendents but gradually spreading to the Proles (this movement can start <BR>
> well before the 5th FFW with few difficulties). By 1135 the movement has <BR>
> widespread support and Zhodani society begins to unravel as it struggles <BR>
> to find a way to deal with this movement. By 1150 the Zhodani are in real <BR>
> problems.<BR>
<BR>
I do not think, any potential revolution leader, no matter how "charismatic" <BR>
would get very far in Zhodani society. As soon as he/she began to exhibit the <BR>
first signs of desire for radical changes in society, arrest and reeducation <BR>
would probably soon follow.<BR>
BTW, why do you see a need to destroy the Zhodani in the post-rebellion era? <BR>
Do they pose any special problem? It just seems a little forced to go like <BR>
"The Imperium is dead, so the Consulate has to die too!" Even if you like to <BR>
use the TNE setting ( without Virus ), little would change with the Consulate <BR>
remaining stable.<BR>
<BR>
Tobias Riepe<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:18:40 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>     On the HIWG CD their are some deckplans (mostly in GIF format<BR>
> >> IIRC), I'd like suggestions on what other formats to provide them in<BR>
> >> (particularly vector).<BR>
> <BR>
> > Postscript would be about the only real x-platform one.<BR>
> <BR>
> I thought postscript only did bitmapped graphics?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Postscript is a vector description language. Postscript can embed bitmap<BR>
information, but PS itself does vectors. That's why illustration<BR>
programs like Illustrator and FreeHand use it as their 'native' file<BR>
format. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > QT for Windows<BR>
> > doesn't handle vector Pict files well, and the equivalent in the Windows<BR>
> > worlds, the WMF file a) isn't very good to start with, and b) doesn't even<BR>
> > work all the time on Windows.<BR>
> <BR>
> What does it take to view WMF files? I've gotten a few from a binaries<BR>
> group and my Win95 box has no idea what to do with them.<BR>
<BR>
Find a graphics program that supports 'em.<BR>
 <BR>
> I'll put in a vote for CGM. It's not the primary format of any package<BR>
> I'm familiar with, but last time I looked, many programs could *import*<BR>
> it.<BR>
> <BR>
> For that matter a lot of stuff supports DWG files. The CAD program I've<BR>
> got (an old copy of TurboCAD) imports DXF and HPGL files.<BR>
<BR>
DWG is primarily a CAD format, in fact it's AutoCAD's native file<BR>
format, and only CAD programs, in the main, open them.<BR>
 <BR>
> > Ghostscript is available for a variety of platforms, and will open<BR>
> > well-behaved PS files just fine, and let you print them on about seventy<BR>
> > kajillion different printers.<BR>
> <BR>
> I've got Ghostscript on my OS/2 system now.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:23:53 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
><BR>
>> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 01:28:54 -0700<BR>
>> From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
>> <BR>
>> I still have my CRC out of some sentimental attachment; 56th edition.<BR>
><BR>
>I still have the one I won in a high school ACS competition...don't recall<BR>
>the edition number (shame!), but it was whatever was current in 1979.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
	Lucky stiff... when I won that competition (1981) (highest score in<BR>
the school, not overall...rats), we didn't get a prize, we just got to go to<BR>
a neat awards banquet.<BR>
<BR>
	I'll have to check the edition on my copy of the 'Rubber Handbook',<BR>
but I think it is 35 (!)  My grandfather gave it to me when I went into<BR>
chemistry.  It actually came in pretty handy as there is a section called<BR>
"Laboratory Arts and Recepies" that was dropped in the more recent editions;<BR>
it has all sorts of nifty formulas and techniques like how to make glue for<BR>
different applications, bonding metal to glass, fixing crosshairs on optical<BR>
equipment, making cleaning solutions for those tough laboratory stains,<BR>
making a mildew-preventative for leather-bound books.  When I ran the<BR>
stockroom for the dept. of Chemistry in Iceland and was stuck in the<BR>
proverbial ass-end of nowhere, that chapter came in retty handy (any<BR>
chemicals not stocked in the local medical-supply company had to be ordered<BR>
from Denmark - you had to plan ahead or make do).  I think I really<BR>
impressed them when one researcher came in asking of I knew how to silver a<BR>
mirror...the formula and procedure was in the book. <BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:30:49 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> > I thought postscript only did bitmapped graphics?<BR>
> <BR>
> Postscript is a vector description language. Postscript can embed bitmap<BR>
> information, but PS itself does vectors. That's why illustration<BR>
> programs like Illustrator and FreeHand use it as their 'native' file<BR>
> format. <BR>
<BR>
It's also fairly easy to convert to PDF (I do it with ps2pdf in the <BR>
ghostscript distribution, but I think adobe acrobat can do it too).  PDF<BR>
is also (potentially) vector-based, and is probably a good choice for<BR>
a vector graphics file format, as acrobat reader is widely available (or<BR>
ghostscript can read pdf directly).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:31:27 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: "Pop"<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Charles Collin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> hotel clerk if there was a "pop machine" around, because that's what most<BR>
> of the americans I had met called the stuff.  He looked confused for a<BR>
> second, and then smiled and asked if I was from New England.  It came out<BR>
> that in Florida they call it soda or soft-drink, it's only the "Yankees"<BR>
> that call it pop.  Hmm...<BR>
<BR>
"Pop" in New England?  I grew up in Connecticut and never met anyone<BR>
around there who didn't call it soda.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:42 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.16.20000919203606.47a77942@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm.. so now I know what this 'penguin' you all go on about is... some <BR>
kinda weapon. O-Kay :-)<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:42 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <019f01c0228c$d10b04e0$0100007f@localdomain><BR>
Greetings dear hearts, especially Tod.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds an excellent idea. Can I help?<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:46:49 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3075<BR>
<BR>
Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Meanwhile a charismatic leader rises amongst the <BR>
> Zhodani nobles. He/She preaches "liberation" for the Proles, that all should <BR>
> have access to psionic training and government.<BR>
<BR>
All proles _do_ have access to psionic training.  They're tested, and those<BR>
who demonstrate exceptional ability are elevated to the Intendant class and<BR>
trained ;).<BR>
<BR>
The nature of Zhodani society makes it extremely unlikely that instability<BR>
would arise among the proles (this isn't really limited to Zhodani society.<BR>
Successful 'peasant' rebellions are very rare).  Conflict among nobles, or<BR>
between intendants and nobles, is more likely.  External forces could also<BR>
destabilize Zhodani society in a variety of ways.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:58:50 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
<BR>
Getting rid of Virus has obviously appealed to me, and I've started<BR>
thinking about a continuation of the Rebellion campaign (using TNE --<BR>
still my favorite version of the rules <ducking quickly>).<BR>
<BR>
Considering the scale of the fighting taking place during the Rebellion<BR>
(the TNS didn't even mention ship names, simply saying whole BatRons or<BR>
CruRons were lost), has anyone done any work on Search and Rescue and<BR>
the treatment of Prisoners of War.<BR>
<BR>
Starship and small craft pilots are expensive commodities -- wouldn't<BR>
some effort be made to recover them, if possible, simply for the<BR>
economy of it -- not to mention the morale effects of leaving your<BR>
servicemen behind.<BR>
<BR>
Additionally, what is done with prisoners of war?  If the war starts in<BR>
1117, by 1130 there have been 13 years of conflict.  Keeping prisoners<BR>
away from their families and homes this long seems a bit inhumane.  Is<BR>
there some sort of prisoner exchange program between the factions?  Are<BR>
there commando raids to free prisoners?  Odds are, the factions will<BR>
not just shoot their prisoners out hand because they'd not want to<BR>
suffer the same fate at the hands of the enemy (pragmatism).<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:59:30 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
I have a 46th edition; those recipes are priceless.<BR>
<BR>
Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
>         I'll have to check the edition on my copy of the 'Rubber Handbook',<BR>
> but I think it is 35 (!)  My grandfather gave it to me when I went into<BR>
> chemistry.  It actually came in pretty handy as there is a section called<BR>
> "Laboratory Arts and Recepies" that was dropped in the more recent editions;<BR>
> it has all sorts of nifty formulas and techniques like how to make glue for<BR>
> different applications, bonding metal to glass, fixing crosshairs on optical<BR>
> equipment, making cleaning solutions for those tough laboratory stains,<BR>
> making a mildew-preventative for leather-bound books. <BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:02:26 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re: Classic Traveller Vehicle Combat<BR>
<BR>
>From: Olegamer@aol.com<BR>
><BR>
>OK guys and gals, I have a question for the forum (gee that sounds Greek);<BR>
my  question is<BR>
>related to Classic Traveller - discounting the STRIKER miniature rules, how<BR>
do most of you that >referee handle vehicle combat?<BR>
<BR>
I use the Striker miniatures rules -- I remember becoming happier and<BR>
happier as I read them when I first bought them and realized that my players<BR>
and I now had rules for vehicle combat, as well as just blowing stuff up.  I<BR>
remember designing the air/raft at each tech level from 9 through 15 just to<BR>
have a bunch of vehicles for combat.  Ah, those were the days of being<BR>
unemployed all winter and just having to decide each day between going<BR>
skiing and working on Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:02:29 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
>From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
<BR>
>I hear Doug Berry my be coming my way in December for the machinegun shoot,<BR>
so if he checks out, >I suppose I dare take a chance on the rest of you San<BR>
Frans come BayCon time.<BR>
<BR>
It presently looks like Doug, Jesse, and me, so you'll get sort of a<BR>
statistical sample of the SF gang.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:58:52 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire [was Computers in 3I]<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:11:47 -0700<BR>
>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
<BR>
>  The ZS lost power, but the civilization it represented was never<BR>
>destroyed, as Roman culture most assuredly was (in any meaningful<BR>
>sense - Church liturgy not counting) in Western Europe.<BR>
<BR>
'Fraid I disagree.  Consider the following:<BR>
<BR>
Vilani civilisation was already in decline before contact with the<BR>
Terrans.  The ZS at its height enforced rigid cultural conformity on<BR>
all its member worlds.  This was already failing, with separate<BR>
societies (human or non-human) arising all around the edges of Vilani<BR>
space.<BR>
<BR>
The Rule of Man saw Terran culture and values imposed on the Vilani on<BR>
a huge scale.  If you doubt that, think of this:  almost all of the<BR>
Third Imperium-era people of Vilani descent now speak English (Anglic)<BR>
as their native language.  The Germanic invaders of the Western Roman<BR>
Empire never managed that level of cultural domination - in France,<BR>
Spain and Italy the native language is still derived from Latin.  Only<BR>
England saw its previous language replaced by a Germanic tongue.<BR>
<BR>
The Terrans also abolished the Vilani caste system - and to imagine<BR>
what far-reaching changes that would make to people's cultural values<BR>
and outlook, imagine what modern Western society would look like if an<BR>
invader carried out the opposite change, forcing us all to only enter<BR>
the same profession as our parents, and only marry members of the same<BR>
profession as ourselves.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, there is the Long Night.  One thousand years of isolation and<BR>
regression to barbarism certainly looks like a collapse of both Vilani<BR>
and Terran civilisation to me, and the societies that emerged at the<BR>
far end of the LN would be very different to those that went in - even<BR>
if they *claimed* to look for inspiration to their long-dead ancestors<BR>
of a millennium ago.<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:05:37 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > > Well, oxidation technically doesn't require the presence of oxygen.<BR>
> > Remember<BR>
> > > LEO roars GER? (Loss of electrons: oxidation, gain of electrons:<BR>
> > reduction).<BR>
> > > Aluminum loses electrons (is oxidized), iron oxide is reduced.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > OILRIG. Oxidation Is Loss, Reduction Is Gain (of electrons)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Nick<BR>
> > (former chemist. Escaped alive.)<BR>
> ><BR>
> Please don't tell me you work in IT.  That would be TOO weird. I spent 3<BR>
> years as an analytical chemist and 6 as a toxicologist before figuring out<BR>
> there is no money in lab work.  I have since (last 6 years) moved over to<BR>
> IT.  No rubber gloves, I can eat my lunch without decontamating and have<BR>
> tripled my annual income.<BR>
<BR>
Fifteen years doing analytic chemistry, before I became a sysadmin...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:15:39 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
> > Alcopops???  Are we talking sweet things like bottled wine<BR>
> > coolers, or beercicles?<BR>
> <BR>
> Alcopops taste more or less like softdrinks, but are above 10% alcohol.<BR>
> Can you see the problem with young teenagers drinking the stuff? I<BR>
> can...<BR>
> <BR>
> I would not be surprised if it is mostly a European thing.<BR>
<BR>
They're called Wine Coolers here in the US, though most are flavored<BR>
malt liquor, there are also mixed drinks in a bottle like that and other<BR>
fruit flavored alcoholic drinks here.<BR>
<BR>
While there are problems with the teenagers drinking them, it's not<BR>
overly different from the problems of the teenagers drinking anything.<BR>
And they'll drink _any_thing, even Old Milwaukee...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:38:08 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
What about using PNG format? It is supposed to be the one to replace<BR>
_both_ JPEG and GIF after all, has full colour handling, transparency<BR>
and a decent file size as well as being pretty much cross-platform and<BR>
supported by just about every browser out there as well as pretty much<BR>
all the modern graphics packages. Bitmapped and vector graphics<BR>
packages included.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson<BR>
> Sent: 19 September 2000 18:33<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 Kagehira@aol.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >     On the HIWG CD their are some deckplans (mostly in<BR>
> GIF format IIRC), I'd<BR>
> > like suggestions on what other formats to provide them in<BR>
> (particularly<BR>
> > vector).<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> Postscript would be about the only real x-platform one. QT<BR>
> for Windows<BR>
> doesn't handle vector Pict files well, and the equivalent<BR>
> in the Windows<BR>
> worlds, the WMF file a) isn't very good to start with, and<BR>
> b) doesn't even<BR>
> work all the time on Windows.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:37:02 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Les Howie <travgrognard@yahoo.ca><BR>
Subject: Imperial Squadrons.<BR>
<BR>
Are there any errata/fixes/variants/enhancements I<BR>
should be aware of for this product?  I just got a copy.<BR>
<BR>
_______________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:40:35 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:52:19 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
>From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>And *who* are the Primordials?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Interstellar epicures perhaps?<BR>
<BR>
I hear all sorts of things about their soups.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"She came from Planet Claire<BR>
 I knew she came from there<BR>
 She drove a Plymouth Satellite<BR>
 Faster than the speed of light"<BR>
  - B-52's<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:49:09 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Megan Robertson" <mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Cc: <mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 11:42 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In-Reply-To: <019f01c0228c$d10b04e0$0100007f@localdomain><BR>
> Greetings dear hearts, especially Tod.<BR>
><BR>
> Sounds an excellent idea. Can I help?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Anyone is welcome to contribute to the Grand Survey project.  Right now, I<BR>
need to get in touch with Paul Campbell, who has been the primary database<BR>
architect and php scripter.<BR>
<BR>
We need suggestions of layout and functionality.  We need to build the<BR>
database schema and table structure, creat the forms and displays, and then<BR>
populate the database.  If you know PHP, MySQL, HTML, or can just stype<BR>
stuff it, it's all appreciated.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:49:05 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
At 8:23 AM -0800 9/20/00, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>  >> Soda water is also said to be good<BR>
>  >> remedy for an "upset tummy"... it helps to settle it down for some reason?<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > Because it is a mix of water and sodium bicarbonate, which is also known as<BR>
>  > bicarbonate of soda. That is what people used to take for heartburn and<BR>
>  > such.<BR>
><BR>
>Nope. No sodium bicarb in soda water. Just CO2 dissolved in water.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
You have it backwards.  Soda water has sodium biacarb (there is<BR>
where the "soda" term comes from).  Water with CO2 is seltzer<BR>
water.  I know because I avoid the former to avoid the sodium.<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3077<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3078</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 20 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3078<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
RE: Java<BR>
RE: Flexible Penguins<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
Re: "pop" (goes well with Italians)<BR>
Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Imperial Squadrons.<BR>
Re: Java<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
Re: Deckplans format<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Re: Deckplans format<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:59:53 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
PNG is nice, but it's still a bitmap format. Converting/reading these<BR>
are widely supported, but vector formats are not as widely available. <BR>
<BR>
Quick test of Bitmap vs. Vector. Blow it up 500%. Does the image look<BR>
like it's made of Legos? Then it's a bitmap. If it looks just as sharp<BR>
only bigger, then it's a vector format.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> What about using PNG format? It is supposed to be the one to replace<BR>
> _both_ JPEG and GIF after all, has full colour handling, transparency<BR>
> and a decent file size as well as being pretty much cross-platform and<BR>
> supported by just about every browser out there as well as pretty much<BR>
> all the modern graphics packages. Bitmapped and vector graphics<BR>
> packages included.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:01:14 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:48:15 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
> From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
><BR>
> This makes me feel so much better.<BR>
> <BR>
> I adored chemistry but I felt like I had to give it up in college.  My<BR>
> depth perception and binocular vision are not so hot (I don't drive<BR>
> either) and I still have scars on one arm that are not normally<BR>
> noticeable, but turn fire red if exposed to sunlight, from a lab accident<BR>
> my freshman year. <BR>
<BR>
This is getting spooky.  I am effectively blind in my right eye, and thus<BR>
have the same problems, and don't drive.  (I also have virtually no night<BR>
vision. 25 points of GURPS disads, IIRC.)<BR>
<BR>
> If I hadn't been wearing a padded bra under my t-shirt it would have<BR>
> been a lot lot worse... <BR>
<BR>
Dang, if only I hadn't stopped at safety goggles... :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Every force evolves a form."<BR>
   |              - Shriekback<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:51:52 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Java<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Thom Jones-Low<BR>
> Sent: 20 September 2000 02:55<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Java<BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:32:46 -0700<BR>
> > From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> > Subject: Re: Java (was Re: Whats a good Pascal compilier for Mac?)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ObTrav.  Is there any standardization in the 3I with<BR>
> regard to computer<BR>
> > technology?  Will apps written for a LSP computer run on<BR>
> another vendor's<BR>
> > box.  Does any one megacorp dominate the hardware or<BR>
> software industry of<BR>
> > the 3?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > An why has there been so little computer progress in in<BR>
> several thousand<BR>
> > years, anyway?<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> 	Because Moores law has to top out somewhere.<BR>
><BR>
Yup - at current rates, in less than 200 years, at which point<BR>
computers are nuclear fireballs hotter than the Sun, powered God knows<BR>
how, and using quantum particles for computing. How the hell you would<BR>
_use_ such a monster though.....?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:45:00 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Megan Robertson<BR>
> Sent: 19 September 2000 23:02<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Cc: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk<BR>
> Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> In-Reply-To: <008a01c021dc$1fe69220$0e092ecb@theroc><BR>
> Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
><BR>
> Please... I am not a penguin.<BR>
><BR>
> I am CoedArianese... I come from a nice warm planet in a<BR>
> system a sector<BR>
> or so spinward of the Spinward Marches. We have large<BR>
> pointy ears and good<BR>
> low light vision but are otherwise more or less humanoid.<BR>
> In reference to<BR>
> some ancient mythology I have never understood some people call us<BR>
> 'elves'.<BR>
><BR>
I bet its those long, black hooded cloaks you all wear out there. Add<BR>
a white blouse and we have a penguin!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:26:26 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
> This is getting spooky.  I am effectively blind in my right eye, and thus<BR>
> have the same problems, and don't drive.  (I also have virtually no night<BR>
> vision. 25 points of GURPS disads, IIRC.)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I have come to the conclusion that a good part of the TML is one person<BR>
manifesting multiple personalities.  It's the onlu logical way to explain so<BR>
many 'coincidental' experiences.<BR>
<BR>
The personality calling himself Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:26:18 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
> Nope. No sodium bicarb in soda water. Just CO2 dissolved in water.<BR>
><BR>
There is in the brands I have had. Anything else is carbonated mineral<BR>
water, fountain tap soda water or something else.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:30:35 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was<BR>
>When...was...)<BR>
><BR>
>> ... having rather a lot of fun on an army exercise with a box of 50<BR>
>> thunderflashes handed to me with the immortal words "And we don't want<BR>
>> them back"...<BR>
><BR>
>Got to love the military.  When we did night fire, I and a buddy were<BR>
>magazine loaders.  Since we were th last to fire, we had to use up all the<BR>
>tracer ammo "we don't want it back".  We had the barrels of our M16s<BR>
>smoking, and little sparlky bits were coming out the muzzle (chrome<BR>
>plating, probably)<BR>
<BR>
	Hmmm..... I've heard two stories along these lines - one was a<BR>
soldier who was told "Use it all up; we don't want it back) with a large<BR>
quantity of 5.56mm linked.  He went nuts, and got his hindmost anatomy<BR>
chewed off because while they didn't want the _ammo_  back, they did want<BR>
the M249 back in one piece (he said the barrel was actually glowing red)<BR>
	The second story probably needs to be taken with a big grain of<BR>
salt, but an older gentleman told me that in his own mis-spent youth on the<BR>
farm, he lived near a canyon where soldiers from the local base did their<BR>
shooting.  They had a M2HB and numerous cans of .50cal which they had been<BR>
told to burn through.  It being a hot summer and they having access to a<BR>
vehicle, they showed the kid how to load and fire the Browning and took off<BR>
into town for a few beers.  He said he had a blast - literally :o)<BR>
<BR>
	ObTrav - just how much 'expendable' supplies do Quartermasters not<BR>
want to have to check back into their stock...and how much of that gets sold<BR>
instead of 'expended'?  What might a PC with the right connections be able<BR>
to get ahold of?  Better yet:  what might the baddies that the PCs have to<BR>
_fight_ be able to get ahold of?<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:36:27 -0400<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
You people are all weird.  I managed the IT route without taking an<BR>
extensive stopover in chemistry (though a friend is a chemist, and my<BR>
fiancee studies it for a while when younger), managed not to maim myself<BR>
to-date (knock wood), and have never had illicit affairs with any kind of<BR>
flightless waterfowl.<BR>
<BR>
OK, so my life is boring by comparison, but what can I say?  <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn<BR>
coburn@sympatico.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:40:38 -0400<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
 > ObTrav - just how much 'expendable' supplies do Quartermasters not<BR>
> want to have to check back into their stock...and how much of that gets sold<BR>
> instead of 'expended'?  What might a PC with the right connections be able<BR>
> to get ahold of?  Better yet:  what might the baddies that the PCs have to<BR>
> _fight_ be able to get ahold of?<BR>
<BR>
Good question.  Waaay back in my days in the Canadian Infantry (I call it my<BR>
'young and stupid' period), we once went into the field shortly before the<BR>
end of the military fiscal year.  Many a toy was given us, as I recall; we<BR>
almost felt like Americans!  <g><BR>
<BR>
As I understand it, whatever didn't get used didn't get replaced in the next<BR>
year's budgetary allotment, and lord forbid we actually get less money (even<BR>
if less money would be needed)!<BR>
<BR>
Nope, we're not corrupt, just prone to weird leaps of logic...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn<BR>
coburn@sympatico.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:26:37 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop" (goes well with Italians)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <CardSharks@aol.com><BR>
><BR>
> << Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy>><BR>
><BR>
> and in New London / Groton Connecticut, home of the US submarine service,<BR>
its<BR>
> called a "grinder."<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I grew up in that area and never heard them called anything else until<BR>
Subway opened up.<BR>
<BR>
Maine has only one name for the things.  Mainers go to Subway to get<BR>
"Italians".  Funny, I've never seen anything but pimply-faced yanks and old<BR>
French ladies in Subway shops downeast. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Now where was it that they called them Torpedoes?<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 23:43:22 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Canon? (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3062)<BR>
<BR>
DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
> >And *who* are the Primordials?<BR>
> <BR>
> Interstellar epicures perhaps?<BR>
> <BR>
> I hear all sorts of things about their soups.<BR>
<BR>
They are obviously Vilani chefs.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:44:21<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
At 10:53 AM 9/20/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Got to love the military.  When we did night fire, I and a buddy were<BR>
>magazine loaders.  Since we were th last to fire, we had to use up all the<BR>
>tracer ammo "we don't want it back".  We had the barrels of our M16s<BR>
>smoking, and little sparlky bits were coming out the muzzle (chrome plating,<BR>
>probably)<BR>
<BR>
Did the same thing at Ft. Irwin with a pair of M-60s, and about 7,000<BR>
rounds of ammo.  After finishing, out unit armorer told us in awe that we<BR>
had completely destroyed three barrels.<BR>
<BR>
And we got paid to do it!<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:46:32<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Imperial Squadrons.<BR>
<BR>
At 03:37 PM 9/20/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>Are there any errata/fixes/variants/enhancements I<BR>
>should be aware of for this product?  I just got a copy.<BR>
<BR>
The ship designs, as published, are puppy chow.  One of the things on my to<BR>
do list is redesign them and post the corrected versions on my page.<BR>
<BR>
The only reason I hold onto that book is because it is my first book credit.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:52:01 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Java<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Because Moores law has to top out somewhere.<BR>
> ><BR>
> Yup - at current rates, in less than 200 years, at which point<BR>
> computers are nuclear fireballs hotter than the Sun, powered God knows<BR>
> how, and using quantum particles for computing. How the hell you would<BR>
> _use_ such a monster though.....?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Nope.  We ditch the primitive hardware and adopt an organic based system.<BR>
Highly interconnected CPU.  Self reairing and self replication.  Heck, we<BR>
could even make it mobile.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:20:25 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/20/00 12:53:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
>  Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>  > <BR>
>  > In mail you write:<BR>
>  > <BR>
>  > >>     On the HIWG CD their are some deckplans (mostly in GIF format<BR>
>  > >> IIRC), I'd like suggestions on what other formats to provide them in<BR>
>  > >> (particularly vector).<BR>
>  > <BR>
>  > > Postscript would be about the only real x-platform one.<BR>
>  > <BR>
>  > I thought postscript only did bitmapped graphics?<BR>
>  > <BR>
>  <BR>
>  Postscript is a vector description language. Postscript can embed bitmap<BR>
>  information, but PS itself does vectors. That's why illustration<BR>
>  programs like Illustrator and FreeHand use it as their 'native' file<BR>
>  format. <BR>
<BR>
Can they handle encapsulated Postscript files (as that seems the only version <BR>
I can output to)?<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:20:43 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Phill wrote:<BR>
>> Military Simulations<BR>
><BR>
>Living in the same city as the importer for the whole of Australia has<BR>
>it's benefits as I get to go to their annual overstock clearance and<BR>
>picked up 11 T4 books for 5 Australian dollars each.<BR>
<BR>
Yaarrgh! As someone who just lost their FLGS (Games Cupboard has just closed!),<BR>
I'm green (and gold?? ;-) with envy!<BR>
<BR>
...but I'll bet the G:T stuff is never overstocked - and therefore never at that<BR>
sort of price. Prior to my FLGS shutting, they sold 11 copies of GT:Starports in<BR>
10 days (and reckoned the "Traveller was the saviour of GURPS", rather than the<BR>
opposite). Now _that's_ not bad for _any_ city in Oz.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Phill, maaate, have I got a deal for you...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
BTW, I thought that Jedko were the main RPG importers? Is it really Mil Sims?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:26:13 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplans format<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/20/00 12:53:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> It's also fairly easy to convert to PDF (I do it with ps2pdf in the <BR>
>  ghostscript distribution, but I think adobe acrobat can do it too).  PDF<BR>
>  is also (potentially) vector-based, and is probably a good choice for<BR>
>  a vector graphics file format, as acrobat reader is widely available (or<BR>
>  ghostscript can read pdf directly).<BR>
<BR>
Not for me (if and when I scrape up the funds for a new system I'll more <BR>
probably have it partitioned to run Linux among a couple of others, but in <BR>
the meantime), I can't afford to buy acrobat (unless I sell a lot more copies <BR>
of the CD), though I could probably have others do it (and PDF takes up <BR>
substantially less room than eps).<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:40:11 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
The Roc wrote:<BR>
>> "Lollies" (UK) = "Sweets" (Aust) = "Candy" (US).<BR>
><BR>
>Q'ld; lollies = lollies (as above, NSW too)<BR>
<BR>
Mmm, I must be brain-dead. I reversed the UK and Aust notations. It should have<BR>
read:<BR>
"Sweets" (UK) = "Lollies" (Aust) = "Candy" (US).<BR>
<BR>
>Q'ld: fizzy drink = cordial for many years!  More common now is "softdrink."<BR>
<BR>
Agreed. I just wasn't sure if "softdrink" would scan for our US members.<BR>
"Pop" (UK) = "Softdrink" (Aust) = "Soda" (US). Is that better?<BR>
<BR>
And if someone in Oz offers you a "sloppy joe", expect a sweatshirt, not a<BR>
hamburger.<BR>
<BR>
>"...I wouldn't mind a class or three of scotch and soda tonight..."<BR>
<BR>
I guess that's bartender class? <smack!> ...sorry... ;-) ;-)<BR>
<BR>
>Soda water is also said to be good remedy for an "upset tummy"... it helps to<BR>
>settle it down for some reason?<BR>
<BR>
Probably works like Gaviscon (etc), floating as an aerated barrier at the top of<BR>
the stomach to prevent heartburn and allow the stomach to deal with the<BR>
remaining contents?<BR>
<BR>
>> Feel free to correct me, anyone - it's these sort of things that make the<BR>
>> difference between Riftian and Marchian (how's that for a thin ObTrav!).<BR>
><BR>
>I was thinking the same, re ObTrav... if my input involved just two states,<BR>
>how difficult must it be between systems!?<BR>
<BR>
Qld is very... - I was going to say old-fashioned, but perhaps I should say<BR>
"English" - "English" in many respects. No Sunday trading (!) for example, which<BR>
my wife and I found nice and quite refreshing when we visited earlier this year.<BR>
Another example of weird differences just between language in NSW and Qld is<BR>
"castle". In NSW it is pronounced "car-sell", while in Qld it is "cass-ell".<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:53:21 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 03:09:12 -0400 (EDT), "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
>To: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 1:07:pm<BR>
>Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
>> Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
>> John asked Jeff:<BR>
>> >> I can't hold it in any longer; since the British Government decreed<BR>
>> >> that alcopops were bad for the nations 'yoof' and more-or-less<BR>
>> >> regulated them out of kiddies pocketmoney range,<BR>
<BR>
>> >Alcopops???  Are we talking sweet things like bottled wine<BR>
>> >coolers, or beercicles?<BR>
<BR>
>> Another example of how America and Britain are two countries divided by a common<BR>
>> language.<BR>
<BR>
>Or even local, regional differences...?<BR>
<BR>
N.B. All comments below should be taken as referring to the New York metro<BR>
area dialect - and you won't have to go far to find differences.<BR>
<BR>
>> "Iced lolly" (UK) = icecream-on-a-stick (think: Paddle Pop, Cornetto, etc.<BR>
>> Yum.). These can be called "ice blocks" (Aust), although we usually reserve that<BR>
>> for flavoured ice on sticks. Or beersicles, if such things exist.<BR>
<BR>
>Queensland; Iceblock = frozen water-based treat on a stick; Icecream =<BR>
>milk-based.  Up until I was 8yo, NSW was the same?<BR>
<BR>
Ice Cream (two words, here) is milk-based; form (i.e., in a cup, in a cone,<BR>
somewhat harder and on a stick, etc.) is usually specified separately.  The<BR>
flavored ice (juice or water-based) is generally an 'Ice Pop' or<BR>
'popsicle', depending on shape (and no, I can't explain the shape code).<BR>
<BR>
>> "Sweets" (Aust) = "Dessert" (UK) [= ???? in US?]. Eg. ice-cream with flavoured<BR>
>> topping.<BR>
<BR>
>Q'ld; Sweets.afters = dessert or pudding.  As above, NSW was just dessert.<BR>
<BR>
'Dessert' here usually indicates (nebulously) something pleasant to eat<BR>
after a meal - it may be something sweet, as described above, or it may be<BR>
nothing more than fruit.  Ice Cream with toppings usually gets called<BR>
'Sundae', with the topping acting as a modifier (e.g., Hot Fudge Sundae,<BR>
Butterscotch Sundae, etc.).  'Trifle', as done in the UK, has no exact<BR>
equivalent, but we do have '(strawberry) shortcake' which eliminates the<BR>
brandy.<BR>
<BR>
>> "Lollies" (UK) = "Sweets" (Aust) = "Candy" (US).<BR>
<BR>
>Q'ld; lollies = lollies (as above, NSW too)<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, OK.  I suspect that the non-US usages refer to specifically 'hard<BR>
candy', which basically look like large lumps of colored sugar.  'Candy'<BR>
here also encompasses things like chocolate (filled and unfilled), which<BR>
somehow doesn't 'feel' right for being called 'lollies', although 'sweets'<BR>
is occasionally heard (and is a marked usage here).<BR>
<BR>
>> "Lollypop" (UK and Aust) = candy-on-a-stick, like an all-day sucker. And is the<BR>
>> hardest English word for Japanese to say.<BR>
<BR>
>Nodnods...<BR>
<BR>
<grin> on the Japanese comment; 'Lollypop' is the same here.<BR>
<BR>
>> As I understand it, "pop" (UK) is fizzy drink, as in "a bottle of pop" = "soda"<BR>
>> (US). Thus I think you were right the first time, John - alcoholic "pop".<BR>
>> ["Soda" (Aust) = soda water, the unflavoured carbonated water favoured by some<BR>
>> as a mixer. Blecch!].<BR>
<BR>
>Q'ld: fizzy drink = cordial for many years!  More common now is "softdrink."<BR>
>NSW ('til I was 8) = softdrink, while cordial = concentrated base that you<BR>
>added water or "soda water" to.<BR>
<BR>
>Soda is rarely used here in Q'ld as a word other than mixing drinks like<BR>
>"Scotch and soda,"... Otherwise, the beverage was simply soda water ("get me<BR>
>a bottle of soda water while you are out dear, I wouldn't mind a class or<BR>
>three of scotch and soda tonight...").  Soda water is also said to be good<BR>
>remedy for an "upset tummy"... it helps to settle it down for some reason?<BR>
<BR>
'Soda' here is any carbonated soft drink (i.e., non-alcoholic beverage<BR>
consisting of carbonated water mixed with a flavored syrup [and possibly<BR>
adulterated with various unpronounceable chemicals]).  The unflavored<BR>
version (which is often drunk straight here) is 'club soda' if you're a<BR>
yuppie, 'seltzer' if you're not.<BR>
<BR>
Club soda/seltzer is not often used as a tummy settler here; it's more<BR>
common to use a cola that has gone flat (i.e., mostly lost carbonation) and<BR>
warmed to room temperature for that purpose.<BR>
<BR>
>> Feel free to correct me, anyone - it's these sort of things that make the<BR>
>> difference between Riftian and Marchian (how's that for a thin ObTrav!).<BR>
<BR>
>I was thinking the same, re ObTrav... if my input involved just two states,<BR>
>how difficult must it be between systems!?<BR>
<BR>
Overheard at Vilis Down: "Tanoose?  You mean Tanoose, one parsec away?<BR>
That Tanoose?  I don't think they speak the same language there that they<BR>
do here..."<BR>
<BR>
ISTR hearing a story once - it might even have been here - about an<BR>
American having to interpret from English to English, because the accents<BR>
and dialects were so different that the people who needed to communicate<BR>
couldn't understand each other - but both could understand the American,<BR>
and the American could understand both.<BR>
<BR>
FTR, my father had to do business in Australia once - he swore up and down<BR>
that whatever they spoke there, it wasn't English.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:53:25 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:18:27 -0400 (EDT), GDWGAMES@aol.com (Yes, _that_<BR>
Loren Wiseman) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> As I understand it, "pop" (UK) is fizzy drink, as in "a bottle of pop" = "soda"<BR>
>>  (US). Thus I think you were right the first time, John - alcoholic "pop".<BR>
>>  ["Soda" (Aust) = soda water, the unflavoured carbonated water favoured by some<BR>
>>  as a mixer. Blecch!].<BR>
<BR>
>There is no agreement on this in the US. Non alky carboned beverages ="pop" <BR>
>iin some regions, "soda" or "sodey" in others. In New England (Boston at <BR>
>least) a soft drink is called a "tonic" so never order a gin and tonic in <BR>
>Boston unless the bar/waitperson is cosmopolitan. US culture is far from <BR>
>being as monolithic as some people think.<BR>
<BR>
>Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy<BR>
<BR>
... = grinder = wedge = hero<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:07:08 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplans format<BR>
<BR>
Kagehira@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Not for me (if and when I scrape up the funds for a new system I'll more <BR>
> probably have it partitioned to run Linux among a couple of others, but in <BR>
> the meantime), I can't afford to buy acrobat (unless I sell a lot more<BR>
> copies  of the CD), though I could probably have others do it (and PDF<BR>
> takes up  substantially less room than eps).<BR>
<BR>
There's PC ports of ghostscript, though I'm not sure how complete they are.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:17:42 -0500<BR>
From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
Well I found out first hand why the chemistry lab manual said not to mix the Conc. Sulfuric Acid and Potassium Permanganate solution. Well when I slammed my labware drawer, Lab sink go Booom!!!. A girl in my glass had poured her conc. sulfuric acid into my lab sink and did not flush/rinse it out. Then I come along and poured out my Potassium Permanganate into the lab sink, I had not yet flushed the sink, loaded up my lab glass ware into my lab drawer, then slammed because it always got stuck. Glassware bonded into ceiling. After I regained my hearing shortly thereafter, I was told what happens when they are mixed and shock is applied.<BR>
<BR>
In lecture next day the Chem Prof explained his reasons for not disclosing the chemical reaction involved.<BR>
<BR>
Some of fun I had in Navy involved entering in bearing and elevation angle offsets in to the missile launcher system just prior to a live missile firing at a drone. Result was the fire pump and fuel container that had been secured/welded to my missile deck, within range of the launchers missile exhaust, suffered extreme temperature rise. I still fondly remember calling down to Damage Control Central from the FC Computer room which had window looking out on the missile deck, "Fire, Fire on the Seasparrow deck, Class Beta(petrol) and Delta(burning metal)."<BR>
<BR>
After the Damage Control parties extinguished the fire(s), I looked up on the Helo deck at the Damage Control Chief with whom I had been "discussing" the dangers of installing such equipment, and fuel within the exhaust arc of my launcher, before I could say anything, he told me "Do not to say word, Petty Officer Thomas." Then my chief responded, "Nay Yah We told you so, We told so...."<BR>
<BR>
I wonder how the DC chief explained the loss the fire pump.....<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:28:34 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
On 19 Sep 2000, at 23:41, Joseph Kimball wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I've always heard the proper way to do this is to do the 'handling' while<BR>
> still a liquid (as in dribble a bit down the stairs).  Unfortunately, my<BR>
> chem teacher in H.S. was not up to this.<BR>
<BR>
One of mine would've been if he'd thought of it. He used to demonsrate the way <BR>
Sodium, Potassium, etc will burn in contact with water by throwig lumps into <BR>
the school swimming pool. One time he did it the piece he threw in was rather <BR>
larger than normal and got to the bottom of the pool before it started <BR>
reacting. The reaction was violent enough to crack the bottom of the pool.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:28:34 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Sep 2000, at 1:28, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Pikers, all of you.  I started with Nitrogen triiodide,<BR>
<BR>
Did that once. My favourite use for Iodine was to mix it with concentrated <BR>
Sulphuric Acid. This produces gaseous Iodine, Sulphur Dioxide and Hydrogen <BR>
Sulphide gas in large quantities. I discovered that it takes a comparitively <BR>
small amount to make a class room uninhabitable for a useful length of time.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>fulminate of mercury,<BR>
<BR>
The only problem I had was getting mercury - good thermometers get expensive.<BR>
<BR>
>extracted RDX from hexamine fuel tabs<BR>
<BR>
I did this too, after finding the formula in an organic chemistry textbook <BR>
during 100 level chemistry.<BR>
<BR>
> made LOTs of napalm (steric acid type)<BR>
<BR>
Is that the sort that uses beef fat? I made a brew of that with a friend and it <BR>
went too hard. We ended up with these jelly cubes made of petrol.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3078<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3079</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/20/00 6:42:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 20 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3079<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
RE: Java<BR>
Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
RE: Java<BR>
Re: Converting FF&S to HG<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
Re: "pop" (goes well with Italians)<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Local Terminology (Was: The 'Amber Nectar')<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Java<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3075<BR>
Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Lethals<BR>
Re: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:28:34 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
On 19 Sep 2000, at 20:40, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:45 PM 9/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Does this happen in every training cycle? 1980, Ft. Benning, Harmony church.<BR>
> >Same scenario, same tools. Do you ever miss the roaches scuttling out of the<BR>
> >showers when you turn on the lights?<BR>
> <BR>
> I imagine theres always somebody who has never disrobed in front of others<BR>
> in his life.  To be honest, group showering was a little off-putting to me<BR>
> until I realized that it was five minutes a day when I could not be dropped for<BR>
> push-ups.<BR>
> <BR>
> Yes, I broke the cardinal rule of basic traing: They learned my name.<BR>
> Senior Drill Sergeant swanson even got to the point of calling me "brother<BR>
> Berry".<BR>
<BR>
Our NCOs were very concerned for all of us and carefully learnt our names in <BR>
the first couple of days. This was not a happy-making thing.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:28:34 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Java<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Sep 2000, at 21:51, Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Yup - at current rates, in less than 200 years, at which point<BR>
> computers are nuclear fireballs hotter than the Sun, powered God knows<BR>
> how, and using quantum particles for computing. How the hell you would<BR>
> _use_ such a monster though.....?<BR>
<BR>
Make a bigger one and use it as a sun.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:38:44 +1000<BR>
From: Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> ...but I'll bet the G:T stuff is never overstocked - and therefore<BR>
> never at that sort of price. Prior to my FLGS shutting, they sold 11<BR>
> copies of GT:Starports in 10 days (and reckoned the "Traveller was the<BR>
> saviour of GURPS", rather than the opposite). Now _that's_ not bad for <BR>
> _any_ city in Oz.<BR>
<BR>
Well I don't know how many they sell, but Mind Games seems to get the GT<BR>
books by the pallet load, has 5 or 6 of each sitting on the shelf and<BR>
sells them for between 28 and 32 dollars, rather than the 40 of the<BR>
other stores in melbourne. When you're compulsively buying every<BR>
Traveller book it starts to add up to quite a saving. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> BTW, I thought that Jedko were the main RPG importers? Is it really<BR>
> Mil Sims?<BR>
<BR>
I could be wrong but I think Mil Sims is the mail order part of Jedko.<BR>
<BR>
Phill<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:42:19 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 02:17 PM 9/20/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >No agreement in the UK either. As far as I'm concerned, 'pop' is only used<BR>
> >to refer to soft drinks by the elderly, or as an element of the word<BR>
> >'alcopop', or as slang for music currently in the charts...pop music :).<BR>
> >Softdrinks either get called 'soft drinks' generically, or by their trade<BR>
> >names. ANd don't ask what being 'Tango'd' means :><BR>
> <BR>
> Another important lesson:  Never take an Australian to a baseball game<BR>
> without warning them about the 7th inning stretch.<BR>
<BR>
Except in St. Louis' Busch Stadium, where they play the old Budweiser<BR>
jingle "Here Comes the King."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:32:48 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Java<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Rupert Boleyn [mailto:rboleyn@paradise.net.nz]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2000 9:29<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Java<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On 20 Sep 2000, at 21:51, Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Yup - at current rates, in less than 200 years, at which point<BR>
> > computers are nuclear fireballs hotter than the Sun, <BR>
> powered God knows<BR>
> > how, and using quantum particles for computing. How the <BR>
> hell you would<BR>
> > _use_ such a monster though.....?<BR>
> <BR>
> Make a bigger one and use it as a sun.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm... the implication here is that the sun could possibly be a high<BR>
tech personal assistant left lying around by some enigmatic, but<BR>
careless, alien race. I wonder how the interface works?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:50:49 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Converting FF&S to HG<BR>
<BR>
> So, presumably you have a system to do this that works? Please tell us<BR>
how you<BR>
> did this!<BR>
<BR>
By displacement, mainly. With a hashing algorith of common sense.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:56:39 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> What about using PNG format?<BR>
<BR>
"Persona non grata"?  "Papua New Guinea"?<BR>
<BR>
(Sorry, sometimes I just free-associate.)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  A Tavrchedl' officer would probably need readjustment himself<BR>
if he looked into my mind....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 01:01:51 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> >PS. What IS a penguin?<BR>
> Either a thrown, or two-handed melee weapon.<BR>
<BR>
Emperors, I couldn't agree more. But would you really have to use two hands<BR>
to wield an Adelie in close combat?<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:02:05 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop" (goes well with Italians)<BR>
<BR>
swordworlder wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> Maine has only one name for the things.  Mainers go to Subway to get<BR>
> "Italians".  Funny, I've never seen anything but pimply-faced yanks and old<BR>
> French ladies in Subway shops downeast. :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> Now where was it that they called them Torpedoes?<BR>
<BR>
I don't know, but I do have a follow-up question:<BR>
<BR>
In places where they call subs/hoagies/grinders/et cetera ad infinitum<BR>
"torpedoes," do French dip sandwiches come with "torpedo juice"?  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:58:35 -0500<BR>
From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
At 02:13 PM 09/19/2000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> I am currently working on the Astron, Theta Boriallis(sp), and the Fulani but I have used the alternative system for sector generation from the "Galactic" program, fewer 0 pop high tech worlds that way.<g> I used the dot map locations and generated the data.<BR>
><BR>
>As I am (slowly) trying to work on the Iykaiser (Theron) sector, would you be interested in sharing thoughts as you go along.<BR>
><BR>
>Jim Cooper<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes I would like to, could you refresh my memory cells is Thoron in relation to the sectors?<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:02:42 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Sep 2000, at 9:40, david.d.jaques-watson@centrel wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> The Roc wrote:<BR>
> >> "Lollies" (UK) = "Sweets" (Aust) = "Candy" (US).<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Q'ld; lollies = lollies (as above, NSW too)<BR>
> <BR>
> Mmm, I must be brain-dead. I reversed the UK and Aust notations. It should have<BR>
> read: "Sweets" (UK) = "Lollies" (Aust) = "Candy" (US).<BR>
<BR>
NZ: 'Sweets' or 'Lollies'.<BR>
<BR>
> >Q'ld: fizzy drink = cordial for many years!  More common now is "softdrink."<BR>
> <BR>
> Agreed. I just wasn't sure if "softdrink" would scan for our US members.<BR>
> "Pop" (UK) = "Softdrink" (Aust) = "Soda" (US). Is that better?<BR>
<BR>
NZ: 'Fizzy Drink'. 'Softdrink' or just 'Fizzy'.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Qld is very... - I was going to say old-fashioned, but perhaps I should say<BR>
> "English" - "English" in many respects. No Sunday trading (!) for example, which<BR>
> my wife and I found nice and quite refreshing when we visited earlier this year.<BR>
> Another example of weird differences just between language in NSW and Qld is<BR>
> "castle". In NSW it is pronounced "car-sell", while in Qld it is "cass-ell".<BR>
<BR>
What I liked about (southern) Queensland when I visited back in the early 90s <BR>
was how like here it was. All the places I went had so many New Zealanders that <BR>
it was almost like I'd hadn't left home. I can't help wondering if that's a <BR>
factor in some of it's langaune differences from NSW.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:46:42 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Local Terminology (Was: The 'Amber Nectar')<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
To: <traveller@ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 8:40:am<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> And if someone in Oz offers you a "sloppy joe", expect a sweatshirt, not a<BR>
> hamburger.<BR>
<BR>
Now this could even be a regional difference in the U.S., which highlights<BR>
the topic even futher.  We have a friend who moved from the U.S. to Oz to<BR>
marry a bloke over twice her age (but that's a different story), and for a<BR>
party, she made "Sloppy Joes"... only her sloppy joe was basically a very<BR>
mild chilli-bean and mince (sausage mince/ground meat for the non-Aussies)<BR>
"stew" that you slapped onto a hotdog roll!  It was very tasty and I really<BR>
liked it, but it certainly wasn't a hamburger!<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >"...I wouldn't mind a class or three of scotch and soda tonight..."<BR>
><BR>
> I guess that's bartender class? <smack!> ...sorry... ;-) ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Sadly, the 'c' and the 'g' keys aren't quite adjacent, so my typo there is<BR>
areally poor...<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >Soda water is also said to be good remedy for an "upset tummy"... it<BR>
helps to<BR>
> >settle it down for some reason?<BR>
><BR>
> Probably works like Gaviscon (etc), floating as an aerated barrier at the<BR>
top of<BR>
> the stomach to prevent heartburn and allow the stomach to deal with the<BR>
> remaining contents?<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps, but it works for me with a mild upset :^)<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >> Feel free to correct me, anyone - it's these sort of things that make<BR>
the<BR>
> >> difference between Riftian and Marchian (how's that for a thin<BR>
ObTrav!).<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I was thinking the same, re ObTrav... if my input involved just two<BR>
states,<BR>
> >how difficult must it be between systems!?<BR>
><BR>
> Qld is very... - I was going to say old-fashioned, but perhaps I should<BR>
say<BR>
> "English" - "English" in many respects. No Sunday trading (!) for example,<BR>
which<BR>
> my wife and I found nice and quite refreshing when we visited earlier this<BR>
year.<BR>
> Another example of weird differences just between language in NSW and Qld<BR>
is<BR>
> "castle". In NSW it is pronounced "car-sell", while in Qld it is<BR>
"cass-ell".<BR>
<BR>
And for several years, those from NSW would call Mackay "Mack-Kay" instead<BR>
of "Macl-Ki" as the locals did?  The "car-sell" term is more common now too,<BR>
I moved from Sydney when I was 8 yo, and as a boy I noticed such things<BR>
right off and would smirk at the Queenslanders.  But I'm happy to say, the<BR>
newsreaders (the worst offenders) very rarely say "cass-ell" anymore :^)<BR>
<BR>
Sunday trading?  Gold Coast has 7-day trading (many smaller outlets have the<BR>
option to close on Sundays), while supermarkets have late night trading<BR>
weekdays.  But oddly enough, the capital city here (Brissie) doesn't!  Most<BR>
inconvenient when spending the weekend with friends and one can't nip out to<BR>
buy a cheese cake or such!! ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:11:37 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 9:29:pm<BR>
Subject: RE: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > > I imagine theres always somebody who has never disrobed in<BR>
> > > front of others in his life.  To be honest, group showering<BR>
> > > was a little off-putting to me until I realized that it was<BR>
> > > five minutes a day when I could not be dropped for push-ups.<BR>
<BR>
One of the strangest set-ups I saw was at the Greenbank Ranges in Queensland<BR>
here, the showers were along "this wall" while the urinal was "at that end<BR>
of the other wall" and the toilet bowls (crappers) were "at the other end of<BR>
the other wall... only they were just there all by themselves with their old<BR>
overhead cisterns.  12 men could take a crap and hold hands with each other<BR>
(if they wanted... for some reason...????) as there were no dividers<BR>
anywhere in the entire building!!<BR>
<BR>
That's where I saw some real tough blokes get awful shy!!<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:11:37 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam writes:<BR>
> At 02:13 PM 09/19/2000, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> I am currently working on the Astron, Theta Boriallis(sp), and the<BR>
> >> Fulani but I have used the alternative system for sector generation from the "Galactic" program, fewer 0 pop high tech worlds that way.<g> I used the dot map locations and generated the data. <BR>
<BR>
For reference, there's (probably not very good) versions of all those sectors<BR>
at Core, or at my website (maps.grandsurvey.com).<BR>
> ><BR>
> >As I am (slowly) trying to work on the Iykaiser (Theron) sector, would you<BR>
> >be interested in sharing thoughts as you go along. <BR>
> >Jim Cooper<BR>
<BR>
No Theron, though.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:14:51 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> A reason I stopped attending.  Plus its a comparatively dull convention.<BR>
> Right now I'm down to attending NorWesCon annually.  Although I'm<BR>
> considering giving BayCon a try, considering all the nutty types that attend<BR>
> there.  I figure I'll fit right in.  And my lovely bride would probably take<BR>
> time off from crime fighting to spend a few days in the magical city of SF.<BR>
> Also gives me a chance to drop in on American Fencers Supply.<BR>
<BR>
Trust me; you'll enjoy BayCon.  I enjoyed both BayCons I attended (1985<BR>
and 2000).<BR>
<BR>
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm<BR>
<BR>
Sadly, it seems that I will be unable to attend next year's BayCon, as I<BR>
have been informed that I will soon be given an all-expenses-paid<BR>
six-month vacation in the Balkans, courtesy of Uncle Sam....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:18:21 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
Rupert Boleyn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 19 Sep 2000, at 23:41, Joseph Kimball wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I've always heard the proper way to do this is to do the 'handling' while<BR>
> > still a liquid (as in dribble a bit down the stairs).  Unfortunately, my<BR>
> > chem teacher in H.S. was not up to this.<BR>
> <BR>
> One of mine would've been if he'd thought of it. He used to demonsrate the way<BR>
> Sodium, Potassium, etc will burn in contact with water by throwig lumps into<BR>
> the school swimming pool. One time he did it the piece he threw in was rather<BR>
> larger than normal and got to the bottom of the pool before it started<BR>
> reacting. The reaction was violent enough to crack the bottom of the pool.<BR>
<BR>
My old boss stuffed a piece of sodium into a cardboard mailing tube and<BR>
sealed the ends up. He then tossed it in the duck pond on his campus and<BR>
sat back to watch the fun.<BR>
<BR>
Took about 20 minutes or so to actually work (Actually, according to<BR>
Justin, it took 'two beers'), but it was a few days before the ducks<BR>
ventured back into the pond.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:20:25 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Java<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'll bet the Darrians will tell you if you ask nicely.<BR>
<BR>
(Even though all they ever figured out was the 'reset' button ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > From: Rupert Boleyn [mailto:rboleyn@paradise.net.nz]<BR>
> > On 20 Sep 2000, at 21:51, Mark Preston wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Yup - at current rates, in less than 200 years, at which point<BR>
> > > computers are nuclear fireballs hotter than the Sun,<BR>
> > powered God knows<BR>
> > > how, and using quantum particles for computing. How the<BR>
> > hell you would<BR>
> > > _use_ such a monster though.....?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Make a bigger one and use it as a sun.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmmm... the implication here is that the sun could possibly be a high<BR>
> tech personal assistant left lying around by some enigmatic, but<BR>
> careless, alien race. I wonder how the interface works?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 01:37:12 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
> ... having rather a lot of fun on an army exercise with a box of 50<BR>
> thunderflashes handed to me with the immortal words "And we don't want<BR>
> them back"...<BR>
> TechSgt Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
It's people like you....<BR>
<BR>
I shall never forget being awoken by a large man in BDUs and an I'm Not<BR>
Here waistcoat standing at the foot of my sleeping bag, throwing<BR>
thunderflashes over my head into the centre of the platoon harbour...<BR>
<BR>
<shudder><BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:38:01 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
on 9/20/00 5:11 PM, The Roc at roc@kewl.com.au wrote:<BR>
> the other wall... only they were just there all by themselves with their old<BR>
> overhead cisterns.  12 men could take a crap and hold hands with each other<BR>
> (if they wanted... for some reason...????) as there were no dividers<BR>
> anywhere in the entire building!!<BR>
> <BR>
> That's where I saw some real tough blokes get awful shy!!<BR>
> <BR>
> -- The Roc<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
The same in US Army basic.  It's one thing to share a shower.  Its another<BR>
to be using the latrine with someone else doing the same right next to you,<BR>
and no privacy divider.  I can still recall getting a 3-day pass for<BR>
shooting expert and maxing the POIQT test.  I went down to Columbus<BR>
(carefully negotiating the gaggle of professional women who linger by the<BR>
main gate) and checked into a hotel.  Having the bathroom to myself seemed<BR>
like sybaridic luxury.<BR>
<BR>
Naturally, I arranged a visit to Ranger Joes.  Only a 17 year old with half<BR>
a brain would use a pass from basic to visit an army surplus store.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:57:59 -0500<BR>
From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
At 07:11 PM 09/20/2000, you wrote:<BR>
>Sinbad Sam writes:<BR>
>> At 02:13 PM 09/19/2000, you wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> <BR>
>> >Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >> I am currently working on the Astron, Theta Boriallis(sp), and the<BR>
>> >> Fulani but I have used the alternative system for sector generation from the "Galactic" program, fewer 0 pop high tech worlds that way.<g> I used the dot map locations and generated the data. <BR>
><BR>
>For reference, there's (probably not very good) versions of all those sectors<BR>
>at Core, or at my website (maps.grandsurvey.com).<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >As I am (slowly) trying to work on the Iykaiser (Theron) sector, would you<BR>
>> >be interested in sharing thoughts as you go along. <BR>
>> >Jim Cooper<BR>
><BR>
>No Theron, though.<BR>
<BR>
I have looked at the Core website but I am unable to got url maps.gradnsurvey.com.<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:59:15 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3075<BR>
<BR>
> and help build a flame thrower.<BR>
<BR>
I knew a guy in High school who did that. He was trying to build a jet <BR>
engine, but the end result nearly destroyed his fathers barn . . .<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:55:22 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML? I<BR>
tried to join the Reserves once, but was rejected!<BR>
Yes, I was honest, and told the good Doctor I was 'mildly' asthmatic. I<BR>
did try a second time, after friends already in the reserves told me to<BR>
'lie my a**e off.' Which I proceeded to do. Unluckily I had the same<BR>
doctor, who remebered me.... grot! Of course he still tried to help me<BR>
get in, but my regular GP wouldn't co-operate... probably just as well<BR>
anyway... my asthma worsened a couple of years later... double grot!<BR>
<BR>
Still, it's good to see the wealth of military experience here... love<BR>
the little anecdotes... even if some do go over my head! <BR>
<BR>
As a side note, my wife has commented that since she started playing<BR>
traveller, she understands what is meant by APC and LAW, TAC Missile and<BR>
other military terminology. <BR>
<BR>
Oh... and I met her at a traveller game.... she ended up marrying the<BR>
ref! <grin> Our son is only nine months, but I am already teaching him<BR>
to roll dice!<BR>
<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:31:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:  I have no idea.<BR>
<BR>
Well, the PCs could be trying to brew up something. Or they wind up<BR>
transporting some chemicals and don't realize what can happen if *both*<BR>
leak. <ek><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:24:45 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Meanwhile a charismatic leader rises amongst the Zhodani nobles.<BR>
> He/She preaches "liberation" for the Proles, that all should have<BR>
> access to psionic training and government.<BR>
<BR>
Huh? As I recall, anybody who displayed any psionic abilities *did* get<BR>
trained. Remember, the abilities aren't sufficiently hereditary for a<BR>
true hereditary nobility.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:07:56 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Lethals<BR>
<BR>
> Ammonia cleans pretty good.<BR>
>  Bleach cleans pretty good.<BR>
>  Hey, I bet if I mix them it'll *really* clean!<BR>
<BR>
My uncle the dairy farmer used to dump that combination down ratholes in his <BR>
barn. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:12:56 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
<BR>
>there commando raids to free prisoners?  Odds are, the factions will<BR>
>not just shoot their prisoners out hand because they'd not want to<BR>
>suffer the same fate at the hands of the enemy (pragmatism).<BR>
<BR>
Lucan might.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:25:59 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
> > made LOTs of napalm (steric acid type)<BR>
><BR>
> Is that the sort that uses beef fat? I made a brew of that with a friend<BR>
and it<BR>
> went too hard. We ended up with these jelly cubes made of petrol.<BR>
<BR>
Styrene dissolved in petrol works surprisingly well.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:20:45<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
At 06:42 PM 9/20/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Another important lesson:  Never take an Australian to a baseball game<BR>
>> without warning them about the 7th inning stretch.<BR>
><BR>
>Except in St. Louis' Busch Stadium, where they play the old Budweiser<BR>
>jingle "Here Comes the King."<BR>
<BR>
HEATHENS!!  And you wonder why McGwire keeps getting hurt?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3079<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3080</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 21 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3080<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
Re: English to English<BR>
fun with chemistry...<BR>
Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
Re: fun with chemistry...<BR>
computer usage<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
Re: Java<BR>
Re: Java<BR>
RE: Deckplans format<BR>
Re: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
re:  Military Experience on the TML<BR>
Striker question<BR>
Re: computer usage<BR>
RE: Striker question<BR>
Thieve's World Redux<BR>
Re: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:26:44<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 05:38 PM 9/20/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Naturally, I arranged a visit to Ranger Joes.  Only a 17 year old with half<BR>
>a brain would use a pass from basic to visit an army surplus store.<BR>
<BR>
<sheepish grin><BR>
<BR>
Um, would you like the other half of that brain?  :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:23:38<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
At 01:01 AM 9/21/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>> >PS. What IS a penguin?<BR>
>> Either a thrown, or two-handed melee weapon.<BR>
><BR>
>Emperors, I couldn't agree more. But would you really have to use two hands<BR>
>to wield an Adelie in close combat?<BR>
<BR>
Adelies are the thrown weapons.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:34:45 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: English to English<BR>
<BR>
Jeff Z<BR>
<BR>
> ISTR hearing a story once - it might even have been here - about an<BR>
>  American having to interpret from English to English, because the accents<BR>
>  and dialects were so different that the people who needed to communicate<BR>
>  couldn't understand each other - but both could understand the American,<BR>
>  and the American could understand both.<BR>
<BR>
That was me. Arlanda Airport in Stockholm . . . cute, blonde, 26-yo Finn <BR>
chick who spoke heavily accented English could not understand the questions <BR>
about her luggage ("Is this your bag?" "Did you pack this bag yourself?" <BR>
etc.) put to her by the airline agent (Swede who also spoke heavily accented <BR>
English). <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:48:21 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: fun with chemistry...<BR>
<BR>
GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > and help build a flame thrower.<BR>
><BR>
> I knew a guy in High school who did that. He was trying to build a jet<BR>
> engine, but the end result nearly destroyed his fathers barn . . .<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav...what are the effects of another TL or three on the 'fun with<BR>
chemistry/mechanics' thread? What happens when teenagers start messing<BR>
with grav generators?<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:57:05 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Flexible Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> >Emperors, I couldn't agree more. But would you really have to use two<BR>
hands<BR>
> >to wield an Adelie in close combat?<BR>
><BR>
> Adelies are the thrown weapons.<BR>
<BR>
Obviously, as author of the game I'd never dream of contradicting you, but<BR>
Adelies are also listed as hand-to-hand weapons, and they have a 'requires<BR>
two-hands' note.<BR>
<BR>
Not that this has any bearning on anything vital.....<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:58:21 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: fun with chemistry...<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav...what are the effects of another TL or three on the 'fun with<BR>
> chemistry/mechanics' thread? What happens when teenagers start messing<BR>
> with grav generators?<BR>
<BR>
Mothers Against Grav Cycle Carnage get really ticked off, I imagine.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:29:00 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: computer usage<BR>
<BR>
>Yup - at current rates, in less than 200 years, at which point<BR>
>computers are nuclear fireballs hotter than the Sun, powered God knows<BR>
>how, and using quantum particles for computing. How the hell you would<BR>
>_use_ such a monster though.....?<BR>
<BR>
Obviously for gaming purposes.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:19:15 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Memories of....<BR>
<BR>
> ... having rather a lot of fun with fireworks, like the "oh dear, this <BR>
> rocket has lost its stick, so I'll just add a banger and another rocket" <BR>
> resulting in something which, erm, rather, erm, annoyed the local air <BR>
> traffic control...<BR>
<BR>
The model rocket club I belonged to managed to attract an overflight by<BR>
a pair of fighters once. We'd lucked into a source for 55 inch wide<BR>
aluminized mylar. It made great parachutes, but the first time we used<BR>
one, the chute opening caused a big blip to appear on the screens of a<BR>
couple of Air Force radar stations. <BR>
<BR>
Luckily the co-ordinator for our club had a brother who was a USAF<BR>
colonel. After a chat with him, the radar operators were informed of<BR>
what we were doing and given standing orders to ignore anything in the<BR>
area of our launch site *unless* it left the area.<BR>
<BR>
We also got a batch batch of FSI F engines once. They had a noticeable<BR>
sideways component to the thrust. And with a *9 second* burn time, they<BR>
had a lot of time for it to affect the rocket.<BR>
<BR>
We had one get up to maybe 50 feet and take off for the nearby housing<BR>
development. We never did find it. Of course, we didn't exactly go<BR>
around *asking* for it either. :-)<BR>
 <BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:31:16 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I once gave my wife an HC smoke grenade for some college fun and suggested<BR>
> she pop it outsite the administtration building.  Now HC smoke is not like<BR>
> an M18 colored smoke grenade.  It's for creating a smoke screen and burns<BR>
> for at least 90 seconds and generates thousands of cubic feet of dense<BR>
> smoke.<BR>
><BR>
> I remember quite well the look of horror on her face as the vast cloud<BR>
> completely covered the Gonzaga U admin building, then drifted toward down<BR>
> town, stopping traffic <grin><BR>
<BR>
Cute. Some friends got hold of some items from some lifeboats that were<BR>
being scrapped. So one 4th, they set off an orange smoke marker in the<BR>
backyard of the place were all gathered to watch the Ft. Vancouver<BR>
fireworks display. The neighbors were impressed. <BR>
<BR>
Another year at a gathering on a farm out near Wilsonville, they set<BR>
off a magnesium flare. We decided not to do that again, simply because<BR>
it took forever to to finish, and when it did it took some time for our<BR>
eyes to adjust enough to appreciate the regular fireworks.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:37:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Nope. No sodium bicarb in soda water. Just CO2 dissolved in water.<BR>
><BR>
> You have it backwards.  Soda water has sodium biacarb (there is<BR>
> where the "soda" term comes from).  Water with CO2 is seltzer<BR>
> water.  I know because I avoid the former to avoid the sodium.<BR>
<BR>
Check the label next time you are in the store. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:44:26 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy<BR>
><BR>
> ... = grinder = wedge = hero<BR>
<BR>
No, "hero" is more likely a corruption of the Greek "gyro" (pronounced<BR>
"gee-ro" with a hard g).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:56:28 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>>>     On the HIWG CD their are some deckplans (mostly in GIF format<BR>
>>>> IIRC), I'd like suggestions on what other formats to provide them in<BR>
>>>> (particularly vector).<BR>
<BR>
>> I'll put in a vote for CGM. It's not the primary format of any package<BR>
>> I'm familiar with, but last time I looked, many programs could *import*<BR>
>> it.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> For that matter a lot of stuff supports DWG files. The CAD program I've<BR>
>> got (an old copy of TurboCAD) imports DXF and HPGL files.<BR>
><BR>
> DWG is primarily a CAD format, in fact it's AutoCAD's native file<BR>
> format, and only CAD programs, in the main, open them.<BR>
<BR>
And what better than a CAD program to open ship plans with? :-)<BR>
 <BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:58:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> PNG is nice, but it's still a bitmap format. Converting/reading these<BR>
> are widely supported, but vector formats are not as widely available. <BR>
><BR>
> Quick test of Bitmap vs. Vector. Blow it up 500%. Does the image look<BR>
> like it's made of Legos? Then it's a bitmap. If it looks just as sharp<BR>
> only bigger, then it's a vector format.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah. <sigh> I miss the old Tektronix vector displays...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:02:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Java<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> An why has there been so little computer progress in in several<BR>
>>> thousand years, anyway?<BR>
<BR>
After Windows 2001 resulted in the deaths of the crew of the Discovery,<BR>
laws were passed enforcing provably correct code (this is actually done<BR>
for things like reactor control systems in the UK). <BR>
<BR>
So it takes a *long* time to verify the structure of a new CPU, and<BR>
even longer to verify code for it.<BR>
<BR>
And while I don't seriously think it'll ever go that far, I *do* think<BR>
that the future will *have* to resemble that a lot more than it<BR>
resembles Microsoft's currenty coding practices (or Intel's design<BR>
practices).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:06:57 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Java<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Because Moores law has to top out somewhere.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Yup - at current rates, in less than 200 years, at which point<BR>
>> computers are nuclear fireballs hotter than the Sun, powered God knows<BR>
>> how, and using quantum particles for computing. How the hell you would<BR>
>> _use_ such a monster though.....?<BR>
><BR>
> Nope.  We ditch the primitive hardware and adopt an organic based system.<BR>
> Highly interconnected CPU.  Self reairing and self replication.  Heck, we<BR>
> could even make it mobile.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but they are *less* reliable than a pre-release copy of Windows!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:10:31 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Deckplans format<BR>
<BR>
>> It's also fairly easy to convert to PDF (I do it with ps2pdf in the<BR>
>>  ghostscript distribution, but I think adobe acrobat can do it too).  PDF<BR>
>>  is also (potentially) vector-based, and is probably a good choice for<BR>
>>  a vector graphics file format, as acrobat reader is widely available (or<BR>
>>  ghostscript can read pdf directly).<BR>
><BR>
>Not for me (if and when I scrape up the funds for a new system I'll more<BR>
>probably have it partitioned to run Linux among a couple of others, but in<BR>
>the meantime), I can't afford to buy acrobat (unless I sell a lot more<BR>
copies<BR>
>of the CD), though I could probably have others do it (and PDF takes up<BR>
>substantially less room than eps).<BR>
><BR>
>Bryan<BR>
<BR>
Last time I checked the Acrobat file reader was free and comes in Unix,<BR>
Linux and Windows versions. Many other programs have paid Adobe's license<BR>
fees to allow them to export files as PDF files and are substantially less<BR>
expensive than the Acrobat full version. (Visioneer Paperport comes to mind,<BR>
as well as the aforementioned ghostscript distribution.)<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:16:26 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Empress Wave (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Meanwhile a charismatic leader rises amongst the Zhodani nobles.<BR>
> > He/She preaches "liberation" for the Proles, that all should have<BR>
> > access to psionic training and government.<BR>
> <BR>
> Huh? As I recall, anybody who displayed any psionic abilities *did*<BR>
> get trained. Remember, the abilities aren't sufficiently hereditary<BR>
> for a true hereditary nobility.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, someplace in one of the CT books (the Zhodani supplement <BR>
IIRC) it mentions that the 2D6 roll for Psionic potential among PCs <BR>
was *only* for PCs, and that most folks had 0 psionic potential.  A <BR>
good guess for Zhodani society (who have likely been breeding for <BR>
psi to some extent) is maybe 10-20%.  While Intendents might <BR>
lobby for more rights since they are often just as psionic as the <BR>
nobles, the proles have no psi and more training won't change this.  <BR>
Now, if someone invented a way to give *anyone* even limited psi <BR>
then *big* changes would happen.  <BR>
<BR>
Given that I don't think we don't really need to fascist states <BR>
bordering the Imperium (I'm quite happy to have the Solomani be a <BR>
fascist state which superficially resembles Babylon 5's Earth) I <BR>
wouldn't expect the Zhodani nobles to resist artificial psi (so long <BR>
as it was proven safe and used in conjunction with training in the <BR>
appropriate rights and responsibilities).  <BR>
<BR>
They would want to regulate and control it, but the thought of a <BR>
whole bunch of completely unregulated telepaths, telekinetics, and <BR>
teleports would cause all manner of trouble in any society. <BR>
<BR>
My guess is that Zhodani society would change but not collapse.  <BR>
Some nobles would resist it, other wold want to make certain the <BR>
process was safe and didn't have any side effects like insanity, & <BR>
some would embrace it as a wondrous boon.  <BR>
<BR>
This sort of thing could make for a fascinating all or mostly Zhodani <BR>
campaign.  Throw in some knock-off versions of the process which <BR>
make folks very powerful, but somewhat unstable for more <BR>
cinematic fun.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
    <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:26:16 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re:  Military Experience on the TML<BR>
<BR>
>From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
><BR>
>Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML?<BR>
<BR>
No, I'm sure there are several of us who somehow missed military service.  I<BR>
applied for military scholarships (which would have led to ROTC), but was<BR>
not offered any.  I then did rather the opposite and attended a Quaker<BR>
college (the Quakers are pacifists), where my sport was fencing.  For some<BR>
reason, the school didn't give a letter for fencing.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:26:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Striker question<BR>
<BR>
OK, here's a question for discussion that actually concerns Traveller,<BR>
specifically the miniatures war game Striker which was designed for use with<BR>
Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
What should be the game effect of putting laser weapons into a tandem mount?<BR>
Some versions of the Minion AFV (which I designed) have two laser rifles in<BR>
a pintel mount.  They are mounted in tandem, that is, parallel and close to<BR>
each other and both firing with a squeeze of one trigger.<BR>
<BR>
What should be the game effect?  Should I roll to hit for each weapon?<BR>
Should I make a single roll to hit and then increase the number of hits by<BR>
some multiplier (2 being the obvious multiplier)?  What other ideas do you<BR>
have?<BR>
<BR>
My intention for a tandem mount (which is not provided for in the rules) was<BR>
to guarantee more damage from a hit, but we in the San Jose group have not<BR>
come to a conclusion about how to handle it.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:57:00 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: computer usage<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Yup - at current rates, in less than 200 years, at which point<BR>
> >computers are nuclear fireballs hotter than the Sun, powered God knows<BR>
> >how, and using quantum particles for computing. How the hell you would<BR>
> >_use_ such a monster though.....?<BR>
><BR>
> Obviously for gaming purposes.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
yeah...what's its frame rate for Quake X?<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:47:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker question<BR>
<BR>
I would simply multiply the ROF of said weenie weapons by some random #<BR>
(again, for some reason, 2 comes to mind.. must be a Zho conspiracy)<BR>
<BR>
Then let the system take care of the effects of the higher ROF.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Glenn M. Goffin<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 7:26 PM<BR>
To: Traveller-Digest<BR>
Subject: Striker question<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
OK, here's a question for discussion that actually concerns Traveller,<BR>
specifically the miniatures war game Striker which was designed for use with<BR>
Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
What should be the game effect of putting laser weapons into a tandem mount?<BR>
Some versions of the Minion AFV (which I designed) have two laser rifles in<BR>
a pintel mount.  They are mounted in tandem, that is, parallel and close to<BR>
each other and both firing with a squeeze of one trigger.<BR>
<BR>
What should be the game effect?  Should I roll to hit for each weapon?<BR>
Should I make a single roll to hit and then increase the number of hits by<BR>
some multiplier (2 being the obvious multiplier)?  What other ideas do you<BR>
have?<BR>
<BR>
My intention for a tandem mount (which is not provided for in the rules) was<BR>
to guarantee more damage from a hit, but we in the San Jose group have not<BR>
come to a conclusion about how to handle it.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:51:30 -0500<BR>
From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
Subject: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
<BR>
I have been thinking about redoing a "Thieve's World" scenario I once ran my players thru, but this time using the GURPS rules for magic and psionics. <BR>
<BR>
The first time was "interesting" time for all concerned, like the dragon damaging their stealth shuttle, the number a autocannon hits a dragon can take and still fly, the shoot out with that robed plasma gun user(mage using fireballs), more of those robed force field using types when hit with gauss pistols, and the player who had his sex changed by some ancient artifact. How many pluses is "variable sword", and what can it hit. Their mission was to do "covert" surveillance of the indigenous population use of "high technology", to get to the heart of the matter. But it did not turn out to very "covert".<G><BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know if the "Thieve's World" has a present location?<BR>
 <BR>
Has anyone else done a similar situation?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:14:50 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snips description of a Traveller party visiting a fantasy world<BR>
(Thieves' World>><BR>
> <BR>
> Has anyone else done a similar situation?<BR>
<BR>
Not quite.  OTOH, many years ago (circa 1982), while I was running both<BR>
a CT game (non-3I) and an AD&D game, I had the Traveller characters land<BR>
on the AD&D world.  Both parties were pleased by the commerce involved: <BR>
the AD&D characters bought "magic bolt" (laser) weapons for ridiculously<BR>
low prices (only 500 GP each!), and the Traveller characters received<BR>
_50 pounds_ of gold (500 GP) for each of their spare laser weapons.  I<BR>
don't recall if the Traveller characters sold any other equipment (such<BR>
as PRIS goggles) to the fantasy adventurers (it _has_ been nearly 20<BR>
years, after all)....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:26:48 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
>><BR>
>>Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML?<BR>
>><BR>
>No, I'm sure there are several of us who somehow missed military service.<BR>
><BR>
I have *never* been in the military.  All my "military experience" is of a<BR>
different nature entirely.<BR>
<BR>
kirichan  ^_^<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan      93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's a deity out there who digs it.  You can respect<BR>
and love your darkest side, disposing of only what is obsolete or<BR>
impractical.  It's all about giving yourself permission."<BR>
                                -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:56:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>fulminate of mercury,<BR>
><BR>
> The only problem I had was getting mercury - good thermometers get expensive.<BR>
<BR>
Mercury switches. They are used in a lot of stuff. Better yet, the ones<BR>
used as "silent" light switches eventually fail in a manner that leaves<BR>
the glass "bulb" with the mercury intact.<BR>
<BR>
A guy who did a lot of dumpster diving came up with some heavy duty<BR>
mercury switches once. As thick as a D cell and twice as long. They<BR>
must have had a couple *pounds* of mercury in them. And some *fool* had<BR>
just tossed them into a dumpster! (At a guess they *each* had $5-10 of<BR>
mercury in them)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:00:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> > made LOTs of napalm (steric acid type)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Is that the sort that uses beef fat? I made a brew of that with a friend<BR>
> and it<BR>
>> went too hard. We ended up with these jelly cubes made of petrol.<BR>
><BR>
> Styrene dissolved in petrol works surprisingly well.<BR>
<BR>
And styrene is easy to find. Styrofoam, the leftover "sprues" from<BR>
model kits, etc. <BR>
<BR>
I used to "dispose" of that sort of trash by dumping it in a jar with<BR>
the model paint thinner that'd gotten too "grungy" to clean brushes<BR>
with. Made an interesting "syrup".<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:47:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In lecture next day the Chem Prof explained his reasons for not disclosing <BR>
> the chemical reaction involved.<BR>
<BR>
Guess why I own a copy of an (old) manual for a Fire Saefty course<BR>
that lists hazardous chemical reactions?<BR>
<BR>
> "Fire, Fire on the Seasparrow deck, Class Beta(petrol) and<BR>
> Delta(burning metal)."<BR>
<BR>
Ah. "exotic metal" fires...<BR>
<BR>
Back in junior high, I snuck a couple of strips of magnesium ribbon out<BR>
of the chem lab. In metal shop, I casually laid one down along the seam<BR>
between the two pieces of metal that someone was doing practice butt<BR>
welds on. <BR>
<BR>
I expected the flare when the torch flame ignited the magnesium. What I<BR>
*hadn't* expected was the *glare* from from the torch flame hitting the<BR>
magnesium oxide left behind (I later learned that those monster<BR>
searchlights they use at grand openings and the like work by playing an<BR>
oxy-hydrogen flame on a cone of limestone about 3 inches high!).<BR>
<BR>
That lit the entire shop so much that the teacher practically<BR>
teleported to the welding bench wanting to know what happened. I kept<BR>
quiet, and nobody else had any idea what had happened. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:38:46 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>  >>Nope. No sodium bicarb in soda water. Just CO2 dissolved in water.<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > You have it backwards.  Soda water has sodium biacarb (there is<BR>
>  > where the "soda" term comes from).  Water with CO2 is seltzer<BR>
>  > water.  I know because I avoid the former to avoid the sodium.<BR>
><BR>
>Check the label next time you are in the store.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I have.  But I will recheck...<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3080<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3081</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/21/00 2:09:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 21 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3081<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Local Terminology (Was: The 'Amber Nectar')<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: fun with chemistry...<BR>
Re: Local Terminology (Was: The 'Amber Nectar')<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
RE: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
RE: Deckplans format<BR>
RE: "pop"<BR>
RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liqu id Hydrogen)<BR>
FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
Re: Converting FF&S to HG<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:30:10 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Local Terminology (Was: The 'Amber Nectar')<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:46:42 +1000<BR>
>From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
>Subject:<BR>
><BR>
>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: <david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au><BR>
>To: <traveller@ient.com><BR>
>Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 8:40:am<BR>
>Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>> And if someone in Oz offers you a "sloppy joe", expect a sweatshirt, not<BR>
a<BR>
>> hamburger.<BR>
><BR>
>Now this could even be a regional difference in the U.S., which highlights<BR>
>the topic even futher.  We have a friend who moved from the U.S. to Oz to<BR>
>marry a bloke over twice her age (but that's a different story), and for a<BR>
>party, she made "Sloppy Joes"... only her sloppy joe was basically a very<BR>
>mild chilli-bean and mince (sausage mince/ground meat for the non-Aussies)<BR>
>"stew" that you slapped onto a hotdog roll!  It was very tasty and I really<BR>
>liked it, but it certainly wasn't a hamburger!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes it was (kind of). Ground beef is hamburger meat. Sloppy Joe is ground<BR>
beef<BR>
and a comercially available spice mix (though you could make your own I<BR>
suppose)<BR>
Granted the sloppy joe isn't shaped into a patty so it eats somewhat<BR>
differently than<BR>
your average fast food burger but that's why it's called sloppy. As to the<BR>
bun the<BR>
approved bun is the standard hamburger bun. On the other hand the hot dog<BR>
bun<BR>
will work in a pinch. (though speaking as a purist it should be avoided as<BR>
it makes<BR>
the whole thing a good deal less likely to leak out all over the place - the<BR>
primary<BR>
joy of the Sloppy Joe is it is imposible to eat daintily)<BR>
<BR>
On a side note most of the authentically american cuisine is meant to be<BR>
eaten<BR>
with the hands (not forks, knives, etc.)<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"She came from Planet Claire<BR>
 I knew she came from there<BR>
 She drove a Plymouth Satellite<BR>
 Faster than the speed of light"<BR>
  - B-52's<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:54:39 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:55:22 +1000<BR>
>From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
><BR>
>Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML?<BR>
<BR>
No. And I also don't particularly like guns (the real ones - in game I just<BR>
love<BR>
10 or so kg's of fully automatic steel and a double belt of DS. Hey<BR>
cardboard<BR>
soldiers don't bleed)<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Oh... and I met her at a traveller game.... she ended up marrying the<BR>
>ref! <grin><BR>
<BR>
Well that's one way to keep the GM well disposed towards the party.<BR>
<BR>
>Our son is only nine months, but I am already teaching him<BR>
>to roll dice!<BR>
<BR>
Never to young to learn that skill.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Paul<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:07:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> One of mine would've been if he'd thought of it. He used to<BR>
> demonsrate the way Sodium, Potassium, etc will burn in contact with<BR>
> water by throwig lumps into the school swimming pool. One time he did<BR>
> it the piece he threw in was rather larger than normal and got to the<BR>
> bottom of the pool before it started reacting. The reaction was<BR>
> violent enough to crack the bottom of the pool.<BR>
<BR>
Sodium and potassium are both *lighter* than water. They *float*. A<BR>
*really* large hunk of sodium might hit the bottom. But that'd take<BR>
*pounds*. <BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, one of my instructors explained why he no longer did<BR>
the demo by paring chunks off a bar of sodium with a knife. He used to<BR>
do it that way, holding the bar in a well gloved hand. <BR>
<BR>
Then one year the knife dug in a bit deeper than he'd expected, and the<BR>
whole *bar* plopped into the large punchbowl he was using (a couple<BR>
feet across and about 6 inches deep. <BR>
<BR>
The blast rang the bowl like a bell and emptied it. The whole class got<BR>
showered. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:15:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> My old boss stuffed a piece of sodium into a cardboard mailing tube and<BR>
> sealed the ends up. He then tossed it in the duck pond on his campus and<BR>
> sat back to watch the fun.<BR>
><BR>
> Took about 20 minutes or so to actually work (Actually, according to<BR>
> Justin, it took 'two beers'), but it was a few days before the ducks<BR>
> ventured back into the pond.<BR>
<BR>
Somebody on alt.engineering.explosives told of setting a dry ice<BR>
"bomb"[1] (2 liter pop bottle with dry ice and a bit of water in it) in<BR>
the closet of his dorm room. He then left the room, expecting it to<BR>
scare his roommate.<BR>
<BR>
When he got back, his roommate acted as if nothing had happened. He<BR>
chalked it as his roomie being unflappable. <BR>
<BR>
A few days later he was cleaning dirty clothes out of the bottom of the<BR>
closet and found the *very* bulged but intact bottle. He very gingerly<BR>
picked it up, carefully carried it over to the open window and gently<BR>
tossed it out into the courtyard... *BOOM*!<BR>
<BR>
[1] it may have been LN2, not dry ice and water. Either way *don't* try<BR>
this at home!<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:23:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> One of the strangest set-ups I saw was at the Greenbank Ranges in Queensland<BR>
> here, the showers were along "this wall" while the urinal was "at that end<BR>
> of the other wall" and the toilet bowls (crappers) were "at the other end of<BR>
> the other wall... only they were just there all by themselves with their old<BR>
> overhead cisterns.  12 men could take a crap and hold hands with each other<BR>
> (if they wanted... for some reason...????) as there were no dividers<BR>
> anywhere in the entire building!!<BR>
><BR>
> That's where I saw some real tough blokes get awful shy!!<BR>
<BR>
I once spent a night in one of the "holding cells" in the local jail.<BR>
Nevermind why.<BR>
<BR>
It was a cage about 20 feet square with a bunch of double decker bunks,<BR>
and a couple of sinks and toilets along one wall. Like you said, no<BR>
dividers. Most guys didn't have much trouble taking a piss, but a<BR>
waited until lights out for anything else unless they *couldn't* hold it.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:31:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Soda is rarely used here in Q'ld as a word other than mixing drinks like<BR>
>>"Scotch and soda,"... Otherwise, the beverage was simply soda water ("get me<BR>
>>a bottle of soda water while you are out dear, I wouldn't mind a class or<BR>
>>three of scotch and soda tonight...").  Soda water is also said to be good<BR>
>>remedy for an "upset tummy"... it helps to settle it down for some reason?<BR>
><BR>
> 'Soda' here is any carbonated soft drink (i.e., non-alcoholic beverage<BR>
> consisting of carbonated water mixed with a flavored syrup [and possibly<BR>
> adulterated with various unpronounceable chemicals]).  The unflavored<BR>
> version (which is often drunk straight here) is 'club soda' if you're a<BR>
> yuppie, 'seltzer' if you're not.<BR>
><BR>
> Club soda/seltzer is not often used as a tummy settler here; it's more<BR>
> common to use a cola that has gone flat (i.e., mostly lost carbonation) and<BR>
> warmed to room temperature for that purpose.<BR>
<BR>
Good lord! You use 7-up, Sprite or their various imitators for that.<BR>
And only if they *aren't* flat. <BR>
<BR>
> FTR, my father had to do business in Australia once - he swore up and down<BR>
> that whatever they spoke there, it wasn't English.<BR>
<BR>
He must have encountered Strine (so called because that's what<BR>
"Australian" sounds like in that dialect :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:44:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: fun with chemistry...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav...what are the effects of another TL or three on the 'fun with<BR>
> chemistry/mechanics' thread? What happens when teenagers start messing<BR>
> with grav generators?<BR>
<BR>
Well, in 20-50 years it won't be "designer drugs" that are the problem.<BR>
It'll be "designer genes". Including viruses and bacteria.<BR>
<BR>
Chemical modeling software will be *really* good. Even the<BR>
shareware/freeware stuff.<BR>
<BR>
And CAD/CAM machining setups will be common hobbyist gear. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:48:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Local Terminology (Was: The 'Amber Nectar')<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Sunday trading?  Gold Coast has 7-day trading (many smaller outlets have the<BR>
> option to close on Sundays), while supermarkets have late night trading<BR>
> weekdays.  But oddly enough, the capital city here (Brissie) doesn't!  Most<BR>
> inconvenient when spending the weekend with friends and one can't nip out to<BR>
> buy a cheese cake or such!! ;)<BR>
<BR>
Yet another language difference. "Trading", used in that manner means<BR>
*stock* (as in stocks & bonds, not cattle & horses) trading. <BR>
<BR>
A lot of places in the US used to have "blue laws" that made it illegal<BR>
to have stores open on Sundays. But it's been a long time since that<BR>
was "normal".<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:52:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML? I<BR>
> tried to join the Reserves once, but was rejected!<BR>
<BR>
I tried to join the USAF. <BR>
<BR>
> Yes, I was honest, and told the good Doctor I was 'mildly' asthmatic. I<BR>
> did try a second time, after friends already in the reserves told me to<BR>
> 'lie my a**e off.' Which I proceeded to do. Unluckily I had the same<BR>
> doctor, who remebered me.... grot! Of course he still tried to help me<BR>
> get in, but my regular GP wouldn't co-operate... probably just as well<BR>
> anyway... my asthma worsened a couple of years later... double grot!<BR>
<BR>
Mine was moderately bad. I got classified 4F, which essentially means<BR>
"If they are marching into town, we'll talk to you..."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:07:36 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> At 05:38 PM 9/20/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >Naturally, I arranged a visit to Ranger Joes.  Only a 17 year old with<BR>
half<BR>
> >a brain would use a pass from basic to visit an army surplus store.<BR>
><BR>
> <sheepish grin><BR>
><BR>
> Um, would you like the other half of that brain?  :)<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Keyboard Kill!!   And I'm a little worried I may have gotten coffee in my<BR>
floppy drive.........<BR>
Does anyone know what coffee does to a floppy drive?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm...   ObTrav:   How well does Starship instumentation stand up to those<BR>
little accidents?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:48:41 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
> Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
> > > Alcopops???  Are we talking sweet things like bottled wine<BR>
> > > coolers, or beercicles?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Alcopops taste more or less like softdrinks, but are above <BR>
> 10% alcohol.<BR>
> > Can you see the problem with young teenagers drinking the stuff? I<BR>
> > can...<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I would not be surprised if it is mostly a European thing.<BR>
> <BR>
> They're called Wine Coolers here in the US, though most are flavored<BR>
> malt liquor, there are also mixed drinks in a bottle like <BR>
> that and other<BR>
> fruit flavored alcoholic drinks here.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Confusingly, we have wine coolers here too eg Castaway. It's not quite the<BR>
same thing, but I'm not really sure how to explain the differance. We (well,<BR>
I at least) tend to think of alcopops as being alocoholic drinks actually<BR>
targetted at teenagers. Their popularity with the 18-24 demographic keeps<BR>
them from being banned as a cynical marketting ploy to create a new<BR>
generation of alcoholics, however. But then I'm just a miserable old cynic<BR>
:) <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:36:27 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Deckplans format<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> There's PC ports of ghostscript, though I'm not sure how complete<BR>
> they are.<BR>
<BR>
Just to be perverse, I reckon you should store all deckplans in XML, and<BR>
provide XSL Formatting Objects to generate whatever format anyone wants.<BR>
There's a PDF FO available on the web somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:46:58 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
>>>Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy<BR>
>><BR>
>> ... = grinder = wedge = hero<BR>
><BR>
>No, "hero" is more likely a corruption of the Greek "gyro" (pronounced<BR>
>"gee-ro" with a hard g).<BR>
<BR>
Not to be nitpicky, but in standard modern Greek it would be "yee-ro".<BR>
Indeed, in Greek restaurants across the country there are slickly-produced<BR>
posters which point out that a gyro tastes better when it's pronounced<BR>
"yee-ro". :)<BR>
<BR>
Beyond that, Jeff's right. If you ask for a hero in New York, you'll get<BR>
what we in Philly call a hoagie and what lots of folks call a sub, a<BR>
submarine, an Italian sandwich or an Italian. I've tested this out myself in<BR>
New York. Some New Yorkers call the gyro a hero as well, but there is good<BR>
reason to believe that this pronunciation was influenced by the existence of<BR>
the hero, not the other way around.<BR>
<BR>
The New Yorkism "Italian hero sandwich" dates back to at least 1920s and it<BR>
referred to then precisely what it refers to today: a cold sandwich on a<BR>
long Italian roll. It's important to note that this predates the Greek<BR>
restaurant boom by about a half-century, which makes it unlikely that the<BR>
term gyro was in common usage long enough to give rise to a variation, such<BR>
as "Italian gyro sandwich".<BR>
<BR>
If I had to make a bet, it would be that "hero" was a reference to the large<BR>
size of the sandwich.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:53:42 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I think they are about the smallest herbivore that is practical to<BR>
> milk on a commercial scale (mouse milk, for example, *is* available.<BR>
> It's also insanely expensive).<BR>
> <BR>
 <BR>
OK, a bag of jelly babies to the first person to name where the idea of dog<BR>
milk as an emergency supply in the ships locker comes from. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 23:56:24 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> OK, a bag of jelly babies to the first person to name where the <BR>
> idea of dog<BR>
> milk as an emergency supply in the ships locker comes from. <BR>
<BR>
Holly. Red Dwarf. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:05:46 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
OK, here's my "chemistry" story<BR>
<BR>
I know nothing about the events in the story. You can't prove anything, and<BR>
I was nowhere near the place at the time.<BR>
<BR>
See, someone stole the jar of pottasium from the chem lab and flushed a<BR>
fist-sized chunk of it down one of the school toilets. Based on the hole<BR>
that the plumber's dug in the net-ball courts, the lump travelled about<BR>
forty feet down the pipes before the oil it was covered in wore off and it<BR>
exploded.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:05:29 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Luther Martin [mailto:martin@ksarul.com]<BR>
> Sent: 21 September 2000 07:56<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech <BR>
> Vegetarians)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
>  <BR>
> > OK, a bag of jelly babies to the first person to name where the <BR>
> > idea of dog<BR>
> > milk as an emergency supply in the ships locker comes from. <BR>
> <BR>
> Holly. Red Dwarf. <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
And for a bonus bag of Flying Saucers, why? :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:08:07 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liqu id Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> OK, here's my "chemistry" story<BR>
> <BR>
> I know nothing about the events in the story. You can't prove <BR>
> anything, and<BR>
> I was nowhere near the place at the time.<BR>
> <BR>
> See, someone stole the jar of pottasium from the chem lab and <BR>
> flushed a<BR>
> fist-sized chunk of it down one of the school toilets. Based <BR>
> on the hole<BR>
> that the plumber's dug in the net-ball courts, the lump <BR>
> travelled about<BR>
> forty feet down the pipes before the oil it was covered in <BR>
> wore off and it<BR>
> exploded.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Gee, thanks, Frank...now I've spit coffee all over my monitor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:32:25 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR>
<BR>
I posted this on the traveller pbem I am in, and Timothy asked me nicely<BR>
if I could post it to the TML. I have no problem at all with publicising<BR>
this very useful publication (especially as I was the one that let the<BR>
cat out of the bag on this list in the first place... <g>)<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Matthew Bond [mailto:mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk]<BR>
> Sent: 20 September 2000 22:03<BR>
> To: pbem.tnec2@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
> Subject: [PBEM.TNEC2] Re: Very OOC<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: <Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk><BR>
> <BR>
> > Why I'm peeved (only nicely - I really am thrilled for/with <BR>
> you) at being<BR>
> > pipped at the post is because I was going to get all <BR>
> excited about a new<BR>
> > title that came out at GenCon earlier this month.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Yes, The Traveller Periodical Bibliography was published!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > This has taken me about two years and I finally got a copy <BR>
> in the post<BR>
> > yesterday.  (For those who don't know it details every <BR>
> article in every<BR>
> > issue of the 'big 5' Traveller journals (JTAS, Challenge, <BR>
> Trav Digest,<BR>
> Trav<BR>
> > Chronicle and MT Journal).  That's nearly 900 of the things.  I even<BR>
> > managed at last to produce a keyword index for it which makes things<BR>
> easily<BR>
> > findable.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Matt (while I was away) wrote:<BR>
> > >Just about to set off for GenCon UK, see you when I return Monday.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >Have a nice weekend,<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > and then<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > >Well, I'm slowly recovering from a severe attack of GenCon UK...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >It was my first big convention, and very enjoyable. I <BR>
> won't miss the lack<BR>
> > >of sleep and the hangovers though :-)<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Glad you had a good time.  I'd love to go one year.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > >The best/worst thing is looking at the very large pile of <BR>
> gaming books in<BR>
> > >the corner and very small balance remaining in my bank account...<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > ...and of course, I trust that *one* of those books is the <BR>
> bibliography!<BR>
> <BR>
> Indeed it was :)<BR>
> <BR>
> Not only did I get one of the first run of 50 copies of ACQ <BR>
> back at the BITS<BR>
> meet at Hebden Bridge last May, I now have one of the first <BR>
> print run of 20<BR>
> Periodical Bibliography's. And it has already proved it's <BR>
> worth! On Monday I<BR>
> started GMing a TNE campaign, for the first time in a couple <BR>
> of years, and<BR>
> realised I didn't have a suitable adventure in Smash & Grab <BR>
> for our eclectic<BR>
> bunch of heroes: basically we have Rambo, Bruce Lee, and <BR>
> Professor Henry<BR>
> Higgins...<BR>
> <BR>
> Crikey, I thought on Sunday, just what *will* I run...<BR>
> <BR>
> Then it came to me! I have almost all the issues of JTAS, Challenge,<BR>
> Travellers Digest, Megatraveller Journal and The Traveller <BR>
> Chronicle (the<BR>
> magazines covered by the Bibliography)... there must be <BR>
> *something* in there<BR>
> that will suit. Turning to my new-found trusty guide, I <BR>
> quickly thumbed<BR>
> trough to the TNE section, subsection Adventures, and lo! a brief<BR>
> description of each published magazine adventure for TNE, and <BR>
> which issue of<BR>
> which magazine it is in... saved hours of thumbing through over 100<BR>
> magazines...<BR>
> <BR>
> My heartfelt thanks to you Timothy!<BR>
> <BR>
> Matt<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> -=+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<BR>
> -=-=-=+=-<BR>
> 		The Near Earth Campaign PBEM #2<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 01:33:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
<BR>
>Gee, thanks, Frank...now I've spit coffee all over my monitor<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    That is the first monitor kill recorded on the TML if I am correct.<BR>
Good going, Frank.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 01:55:03 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
<BR>
Tha might explain his forces fanatical opposition to Dulinor in the<BR>
final campaign -- much like the SS facing the advancing Red Army, they<BR>
knew what fate awaited should they fall into enemy hands.<BR>
<BR>
Can you imagine the war-crimes trials in a non-Virus timeline --<BR>
especially after the depredations of the Black War?<BR>
<BR>
- --- Nick Bradbeer <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> >there commando raids to free prisoners?  Odds are, the factions will<BR>
> >not just shoot their prisoners out hand because they'd not want to<BR>
> >suffer the same fate at the hands of the enemy (pragmatism).<BR>
> <BR>
> Lucan might.<BR>
> <BR>
> Nick<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:05:21 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Converting FF&S to HG<BR>
<BR>
The armor, I think, would be easy.  You know that each level of FF&S<BR>
armor value is equal to half a centimeter of steel.  You simply divide<BR>
the AV by two to determine the equivalent thickness in centimeters of<BR>
steel, cross reference it with the Striker Armor Value, and then find<BR>
its equivalent in High Guard (with HG armor value zero equaling Striker<BR>
armor value 40).<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3081<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3082</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 21 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3082<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: Deckplan formats<BR>
Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
OT: Holiday and unsubscribing<BR>
'breaking news'<BR>
RE: 'breaking news'<BR>
RE: Penguins<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3081<BR>
Re: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
RE: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
RE: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: Java<BR>
Re: Java<BR>
Re: Java<BR>
re: "pop"<BR>
re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
Re: Striker question<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML <BR>
Re: Java<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 02:11:12 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
<BR>
>OK, a bag of jelly babies to the first person to name where the idea of dog<BR>
>milk as an emergency supply in the ships locker comes from.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Red Dwarf.  Season 7.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 05:19:55 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
IMHO the best format for deckplans would be the Computer<BR>
Graphics Metafile format, or CGM that is used routinely<BR>
for clip art collections. Just about every vector graphics<BR>
package ever sold will read it, plus most word processors<BR>
and presentation packages.<BR>
<BR>
If you do not want to distribute it in an editable format,<BR>
I'd go with either PNG for a bitmap format, or PDF. The<BR>
Acrobat reader is free, and Ghostscript can handle it and<BR>
is even free-er.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Simon Hibbs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 05:20:21 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com<BR>
Subject: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris :<BR>
<BR>
>Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML? <BR>
<BR>
Probably. (Me? Five years in the TA.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Simon Hibbs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:40:31 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: OT: Holiday and unsubscribing<BR>
<BR>
Hi everyone, <BR>
<BR>
I'm off work for a week or so, which means I'll be quiet for a while. I'm<BR>
going to unsubscribe to keep my exchange server from crashing while I'm<BR>
away. Does anyone know if the move to ient has affected the majordomo<BR>
address?<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:47:06 GMT<BR>
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
Just visited the BBC News webpage and found the following link - it's a page <BR>
that shows the latest thinking on what *really* lurks at the Galactic <BR>
Core...<BR>
<BR>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_934000/934033.stm<BR>
<BR>
Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, etc)<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:57:25 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
Wow. And I really mean that.<BR>
D<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Jeff Rowse [mailto:jeffrowse@hotmail.com]<BR>
> Sent: 21 September 2000 10:47<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: 'breaking news'<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Just visited the BBC News webpage and found the following <BR>
> link - it's a page <BR>
> that shows the latest thinking on what *really* lurks at the Galactic <BR>
> Core...<BR>
> <BR>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_934000/934033.stm<BR>
> <BR>
> Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, etc)<BR>
> ______________________________________________________________<BR>
> ___________<BR>
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <BR>
> http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
> <BR>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
> http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:59:27 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > At 05:38 PM 9/20/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >Naturally, I arranged a visit to Ranger Joes.  Only a 17 <BR>
> year old with<BR>
> half<BR>
> > >a brain would use a pass from basic to visit an army surplus store.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > <sheepish grin><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Um, would you like the other half of that brain?  :)<BR>
> > --<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> > http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Keyboard Kill!!   And I'm a little worried I may have gotten <BR>
> coffee in my<BR>
> floppy drive.........<BR>
> Does anyone know what coffee does to a floppy drive?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Hmmm...   ObTrav:   How well does Starship instumentation <BR>
> stand up to those<BR>
> little accidents?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I figure it's probably vaccuum-proofed, so it should stand up to coffee<BR>
unless you're running a silly campaign. Then it explodes.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:23:50 +0100<BR>
From: Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3081<BR>
<BR>
>>  <BR>
>> > OK, a bag of jelly babies to the first person to name where the <BR>
>> > idea of dog<BR>
>> > milk as an emergency supply in the ships locker comes from. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> Holly. Red Dwarf. <BR>
>> <BR>
<BR>
>And for a bonus bag of Flying Saucers, why? :)<BR>
<BR>
Lasts forever dog milk...<BR>
Because no bugger will drink it!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -Brian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:11:09 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "Joseph Alberti Jr." <albertijjr@juno.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
<BR>
I think each of the factions would handle prisoners differently. The Black War would especially color each factions view of each others personnel.  The lives of those fighting the war mean little, because the sizes of the armies are huge.  The TNS articles in Survival Margin speak of millions of casualties in a single battle.  I base my views on my interpretation of the TNS releases in Survival Margin. Below is my opinion of what some of the factions would do with POW's:<BR>
<BR>
Lucan:  Anyone who fights for any other is a traitor.  They would be interrogated, tortured, and then executed.  Lucan's actions in the Rebellion are by far the most brutal.<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor:  Dulinor's views on Democracy and the failures of the old Imperium would be presented in variuos propaganda films.  S Brainwashing and influencing tactics would be used.  Those who change their opinions of Dulinor could join his forces, those who do not would go to a prison planet.<BR>
<BR>
Strephon:  Evidence would be presented to prisoners that he is the real Strephon.  Prisoners would be given the chance to join his crusade.  Those who do not, would go to a prison camp.  I think Strephon would treat his prisoners better than the other factions.  He views all these people as his subjects.  In Survival Margin, I think Strephon showed the most remorse and horror about the loss of life in the Rebellion.<BR>
<BR>
Vland:  Would follow some old Vilani dictate on the treatment of prisoners.<BR>
<BR>
Vargr: varies.  In most cases the Leader of the Vargr group would stage a giant prisoner of war parade through the city (like an ancient Roman Triumph) with the Leader at the head.  It would recieve great media coverage and would enhance the Leader's charisma.  Once the parade is over, the prisoners would be free to go.  What charisma can be gained by holding prisoners?<BR>
<BR>
Joe Alberti<BR>
"Long Live Emperor Dulinor!" (somewhere along the line I was brainwashed)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- - --- Nick Bradbeer <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
> >there commando raids to free prisoners?  Odds are, the factions will<BR>
> >not just shoot their prisoners out hand because they'd not want to<BR>
> >suffer the same fate at the hands of the enemy (pragmatism).<BR>
> <BR>
> Lucan might.<BR>
> <BR>
> Nick<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:24:44 +0100<BR>
From: Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> Getting rid of Virus has obviously appealed to me, and I've<BR>
> started thinking about a continuation of the Rebellion campaign<BR>
> (using TNE -- still my favorite version of the rules <ducking<BR>
> quickly>).<BR>
> <BR>
> Considering the scale of the fighting taking place during the<BR>
> Rebellion (the TNS didn't even mention ship names, simply saying<BR>
> whole BatRons or CruRons were lost), has anyone done any work on<BR>
> Search and Rescue and the treatment of Prisoners of War.<BR>
> <BR>
> Starship and small craft pilots are expensive commodities --<BR>
> wouldn't some effort be made to recover them, if possible,<BR>
> simply for the economy of it -- not to mention the morale<BR>
> effects of leaving your servicemen behind.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU campaign the players were an 'odd job squad' attached to  an<BR>
Imperial fleet during the 5FW.  Search & Rescue of fighter pilots<BR>
was one of their duties, yes, but  I  never  wrote  any  specific<BR>
rules or policies about  it.  I'd  imagine  that  this  would  be<BR>
fairly standard practice amongst most star-farring races and even<BR>
during the Rebellion the practice would continue  ...  until  the<BR>
black war years:  Then I could  see  the  victorious  side  of  a<BR>
battle recovering their own pilots and killing the  enemy  pilots<BR>
to prevent later recovery by  the  other  side  (aka  "denial  of<BR>
resource").<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:55:45 +0100<BR>
From: Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>
> I have been thinking about redoing a "Thieve's World" <BR>
> scenario I once ran my players thru, but this time using the <BR>
> GURPS rules for magic and psionics. <BR>
> <BR>
<snip><BR>
> <BR>
> Does anyone know if the "Thieve's World" has a present location?<BR>
<BR>
I think it was in the Paranoia Press version of  Vanguard Reaches<BR>
(or it might have been Beyond).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Has anyone else done a similar situation?<BR>
<BR>
I had my players crash there after  a  misjump,  but  I  tried  a<BR>
sneaky one-time-only plot twist that worked quite well.  One day,<BR>
in the middle of a session, I halted  play  and  handed  out  new<BR>
character sheets.  The  new  sheets  had  no  identification  and<BR>
almost  no  skills  (only   non-technical   skills   left).   The<BR>
attributes matched their original characters.  They then played a<BR>
group of amnesiacs wondering round Thieve's World looking  for  a<BR>
fallen iron tower that held the secret of their identities (or so<BR>
a cleric told them).<BR>
<BR>
Half of each session would be regular  Traveller  and  half  this<BR>
strange Thieves World thing.  This went on for  several  sessions<BR>
with the players trying to figure out the connection between  the<BR>
two sets of characters.  Just as the  Thieves  World  group  were<BR>
reaching the fallen iron tower:  in  the  regular  campaign  they<BR>
suffered a misjump, crashed on Thieves World, and  were  attacked<BR>
by a mage who  robbed  them  of  their  memories.  Meanwhile  the<BR>
Thieves World group reached the fallen iron tower to discover (a)<BR>
it  was  their  crashed  ship,  and  (b)  they  were  the  *same*<BR>
characters but the two parts of the campaign  were  being  played<BR>
out 'simultaneously' instead of in chronological order.<BR>
<BR>
After that they had to get a mage to fix their  jump  drive,  but<BR>
atleast they now had all their technological toys.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:59:33 +0100<BR>
From: Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
> Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> > Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
> > > OK, a bag of jelly babies to the first person to name where<BR>
> > > the idea of dog milk as an emergency supply in the ships<BR>
> > > locker comes from. <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Holly. Red Dwarf. <BR>
> <BR>
> And for a bonus bag of Flying Saucers, why? :)<BR>
<BR>
It lasts forever 'cos no bugger will drink it!<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:06:03 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>
> Sent: 21 September 2000 14:00<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech <BR>
> Vegetarians)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
> > Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> > > Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
> > > > OK, a bag of jelly babies to the first person to name where<BR>
> > > > the idea of dog milk as an emergency supply in the ships<BR>
> > > > locker comes from. <BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > Holly. Red Dwarf. <BR>
> > <BR>
> > And for a bonus bag of Flying Saucers, why? :)<BR>
> <BR>
> It lasts forever 'cos no bugger will drink it!<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Plus, it tastes extactly the same fresh as it does off! :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:23:48 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Jeff Rowse [mailto:jeffrowse@hotmail.com]<BR>
> Sent: 21 September 2000 10:47<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: 'breaking news'<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Just visited the BBC News webpage and found the following <BR>
> link - it's a page <BR>
> that shows the latest thinking on what *really* lurks at the Galactic <BR>
> Core...<BR>
> <BR>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_934000/934033.stm<BR>
> <BR>
> Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, etc)<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm, I didn't think we were that close to the core (only 26,000 LY in<BR>
this article...), and I assume that the figure they give for the Black<BR>
Hole (2.6 million solar masses, and a diameter of 460 Million km) are<BR>
for the Hole and accretion disk combined... (a sphere of 460Mkm has a<BR>
volume of ~190 million suns, and Black Holes are denser than stars)<BR>
<BR>
Otherwise, a very interesting article.<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:41:18 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Java<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> Nope.  We ditch the primitive hardware and adopt an organic based system.<BR>
> Highly interconnected CPU.  Self reairing and self replication.  Heck, we<BR>
> could even make it mobile.<BR>
<BR>
That would be a consultant.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 06:59:02 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Java<BR>
<BR>
From: Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
<BR>
>> Nope.  We ditch the primitive hardware and adopt an organic based system.<BR>
>> Highly interconnected CPU.  Self reairing and self replication.  Heck, we<BR>
>> could even make it mobile.<BR>
><BR>
>That would be a consultant.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Consultants are mobile & organic?<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 07:06:14 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Java<BR>
<BR>
on 9/21/00 6:41 AM, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm at jenry023@student.liu.se<BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
>> Nope.  We ditch the primitive hardware and adopt an organic based system.<BR>
>> Highly interconnected CPU.  Self reairing and self replication.  Heck, we<BR>
>> could even make it mobile.<BR>
> <BR>
> That would be a consultant.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
You have figured it out.  We consultants are in fact, computers of the<BR>
future, sent back to your time.  Excellent UI and optimized to maximize<BR>
billable hours.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:28:20 -0400<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin wrote:<BR>
>On a related note, my gaming group has come up with a classification <BR>
>scheme for soft-drinks based on color and "exoticism".  That is: <BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> One need not remember which exact brand was gotten (the cheapest <BR>
> that week, usually), so it saves on some mental energy better <BR>
> expened on gaming! <BR>
<BR>
I am nearly speechless with awe.<BR>
<BR>
This is Gaming Geekdom made manifest, such as we poor mortals<BR>
usually can only dream of.  :-)<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:46:49 -0400<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
Rod Basler wrote:<BR>
> I'll have to check the edition on my copy of the 'Rubber Handbook', <BR>
> but I think it is 35 (!)  My grandfather gave it to me when I went <BR>
> into chemistry.  It actually came in pretty handy as there is a <BR>
> section called "Laboratory Arts and Recepies" that was dropped in <BR>
> the more recent editions; it has all sorts of nifty formulas and <BR>
> techniques <BR>
<BR>
I got binder full of such things when I took some college classes <BR>
on how to be a middle-school science teacher - I still have the<BR>
mirror-surfaced bottle I made in a lab for that class.  Many<BR>
middle-school science teacher have to make do with old equipment<BR>
and sparse lab cabinets when they teach, so he tried to give us<BR>
ideas to help make up the difference.<BR>
<BR>
His motto:  "Ensure that every explosion has an educational<BR>
purpose...but be sure to use explosions!"<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:17:57 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker question<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
>Subject: Striker question<BR>
...<BR>
>a pintel mount.  They are mounted in tandem, that is, parallel and close to<BR>
>each other and both firing with a squeeze of one trigger.<BR>
><BR>
>What should be the game effect?  Should I roll to hit for each weapon?<BR>
>Should I make a single roll to hit and then increase the number of hits by<BR>
>some multiplier (2 being the obvious multiplier)?  What other ideas do you<BR>
>have?<BR>
><BR>
>My intention for a tandem mount (which is not provided for in the rules) was<BR>
>to guarantee more damage from a hit, but we in the San Jose group have not<BR>
>come to a conclusion about how to handle it.<BR>
<BR>
  Our wargames group long ago went with +1 to hit at all ranges per extra<BR>
weapon. This compensates for the cost and weight of the extra weapon itself<BR>
over and above the simple increased ROF, and also gets around the lack of<BR>
ROF info for some weapons.<BR>
<BR>
  The multiple hits rule in Striker comes about as close to "guaranteeing<BR>
more damage" as possible - e.g., +2 means not only much less chance of a<BR>
clean miss, but that any roll that would hit with the single weapon will <BR>
score one extra hit with a triple (= +2/+2/+2).<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its' Product"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:22:35 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
>From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
>Subject: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire [was Computers in 3I]<BR>
...<BR>
>>  The ZS lost power, but the civilization it represented was never<BR>
>>destroyed, as Roman culture most assuredly was (in any meaningful<BR>
>>sense - Church liturgy not counting) in Western Europe.<BR>
><BR>
>'Fraid I disagree.  Consider the following:<BR>
><BR>
>Vilani civilisation was already in decline before contact with the Terrans.<BR>
...<BR>
>The Rule of Man saw Terran culture and values imposed on the Vilani on<BR>
>a huge scale.  If you doubt that, think of this:  almost all of the<BR>
<BR>
  Terran _rule_, but Terran culture and values? Traditional Vilani values<BR>
being eroded I can see - as they doubtless must have been by the series of<BR>
wars that concealed the scope of the Terran threat - but being _replaced_<BR>
because the provincial capital under a cadre of Terrans now delivers its <BR>
warship production over to the Terran fleets?<BR>
<BR>
>Third Imperium-era people of Vilani descent now speak English (Anglic)<BR>
>as their native language.  The Germanic invaders of the Western Roman<BR>
<BR>
  All we know for sure is that Anglic is the lingua franca of the 3I -<BR>
it's never stated that a majority of inhabitants speak it as their native<BR>
tongue; I imagine that a lot of people would rather doubt that.<BR>
<BR>
>The Terrans also abolished the Vilani caste system - and to imagine<BR>
...<BR>
<BR>
  And urbanization changed the advanced West even more so when the<BR>
distribution of the need for agricultural labour changed over 200<BR>
years or so; maybe a lot of people are kidding themselves that our<BR>
culture bears much resemblance to what it was, but most assume that<BR>
it's wholly continuous. And the Vilani would be much better placed <BR>
to do mostly as they wished in that regard - displaced farm labourers <BR>
had no such option.<BR>
<BR>
>Finally, there is the Long Night.  One thousand years of isolation and<BR>
>regression to barbarism certainly looks like a collapse of both Vilani<BR>
>and Terran civilisation to me, and the societies that emerged at the<BR>
<BR>
  Terran civilisation collapsed during the Long Night? Or did their<BR>
control of all but the closest sub-sectors merely lapse? AFAIK from<BR>
canon few worlds (as opposed to outposts that were never even close<BR>
to self-sustaining w/o adequate interstellar trade) regressed to <BR>
"barbarism".<BR>
<BR>
  And the removal of interstellar controls with the failure of the<BR>
Rule of Man would have both allowed and encouraged the Vilani to go<BR>
back to their (comparatively) "tried and true" methods.  <BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:06:25 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam writes:<BR>
<BR>
> I have looked at the Core website but I am unable to got url<BR>
> maps.gradnsurvey.com. <BR>
<BR>
Try http://maps.grandsurvey.com/ .  Mostly, spell grandsurvey right ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:30:25 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML <BR>
<BR>
>From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
><BR>
>Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML?<BR>
<BR>
	Nope - I went to college when it was still affordable, at a college<BR>
that did not have ROTC, got hired immediately after graduation, and the next<BR>
thing I knew, 15 years had flashed by...wasn't it the 1980's just the other<BR>
day??<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:00:45 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Java<BR>
<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
<BR>
>You have figured it out.  We consultants are in fact, computers of the<BR>
>future, sent back to your time.  Excellent UI and optimized to maximize<BR>
>billable hours.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    And, without an original thought in your empty heads.  For all you are<BR>
worth, you might as well be chemists.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:58:02 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> Confusingly, we have wine coolers here too eg Castaway. It's not quite the<BR>
> same thing, but I'm not really sure how to explain the differance. We (well,<BR>
> I at least) tend to think of alcopops as being alocoholic drinks actually<BR>
> targetted at teenagers. Their popularity with the 18-24 demographic keeps<BR>
> them from being banned as a cynical marketting ploy to create a new<BR>
> generation of alcoholics, however. But then I'm just a miserable old cynic<BR>
<BR>
Ahhh, then we don't really have that problem here since half that<BR>
demographic is unable to drink legally here.<BR>
<BR>
This isn't to say we _don't_ have cynical marketting ploys used to<BR>
create a new generation of alcoholics, mind you! <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:04:41 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Ahhh, then we don't really have that problem here since half that<BR>
> demographic is unable to drink legally here.<BR>
<BR>
And that stops them?  For that matter, you think companies won't market to<BR>
kids simply because those kids can't legally buy?<BR>
<BR>
Of course, my experience is that the 18-20 year olds drink beer (which they<BR>
also can't legally buy or drink).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:06:10 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
> > Nope. No sodium bicarb in soda water. Just CO2 dissolved in water.<BR>
> ><BR>
> There is in the brands I have had. Anything else is carbonated mineral<BR>
> water, fountain tap soda water or something else.<BR>
><BR>
Here's a can of Canada Dry Club Soda now...<BR>
<BR>
Contains: Carbonated Water, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sodium Citrate, Disodium<BR>
Phosphate, Potassium Sulphate and NO CALORIES.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3082<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3083</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 21 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3083<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Hindenberg<BR>
Re: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
Re: Hindenberg<BR>
Re: Hindenberg<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg... )<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
Re: "pop" (goes well with Italians)<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Re: Java<BR>
Zhodani Fleet Question<BR>
Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
RE: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
RE: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Artificial Personalities by 2020?<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
Disappearing again<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
RE: TML Landgrab - Ficant<BR>
Converting FFS2 to HG<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
RE: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:08:14 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: RE: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
><BR>
>Confusingly, we have wine coolers here too eg Castaway. It's not quite the<BR>
same thing, but I'm<BR>
>not really sure how to explain the differance. We (well, I at least) tend<BR>
to think of alcopops<BR>
>as being alocoholic drinks actually targetted at teenagers. Their<BR>
popularity with the 18-24<BR>
>demographic keeps them from being banned as a cynical marketting ploy to<BR>
create a new generation >of alcoholics, however. But then I'm just a<BR>
miserable old cynic<BR>
<BR>
Well, a successful society does tend to reproduce itself.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:08:16 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making<BR>
Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
><BR>
>From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
><BR>
>>Gee, thanks, Frank...now I've spit coffee all over my monitor<BR>
><BR>
>    That is the first monitor kill recorded on the TML if I am correct.<BR>
Good going, Frank.<BR>
<BR>
I think you're right.  This digest or the last also contains a floppy drive<BR>
kill, which I though was equally impressive.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:08:17 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
<BR>
>From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
>Tha might explain his forces fanatical opposition to Dulinor in the final<BR>
campaign -- much like >the SS facing the advancing Red Army, they knew what<BR>
fate awaited should they fall into enemy<BR>
>hands.<BR>
><BR>
>Can you imagine the war-crimes trials in a non-Virus timeline -- especially<BR>
after the<BR>
>depredations of the Black War?<BR>
<BR>
Beeep beeep.  "Yes, Coringo speaking"<BR>
"Joey, it's Eneri.  Turn on your holovid *right now*!  The X-Boat just<BR>
arrived, and Reginanet is broadcasting the most recent trial recordings --<BR>
Lucan's lawyer is cross-examining Margaret herself!  You won't believe what<BR>
she's admitting ...."<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:18:25 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg<BR>
<BR>
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
<BR>
>>>Gee, thanks, Frank...now I've spit coffee all over my monitor<BR>
>>    That is the first monitor kill recorded on the TML if I am correct.<BR>
>Good going, Frank.<BR>
><BR>
>I think you're right.  This digest or the last also contains a floppy drive<BR>
>kill, which I though was equally impressive.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    You know what is really scary?  The next step might be entire computer<BR>
kills.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:18:25 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg<BR>
<BR>
From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
<BR>
>>>Gee, thanks, Frank...now I've spit coffee all over my monitor<BR>
>>    That is the first monitor kill recorded on the TML if I am correct.<BR>
>Good going, Frank.<BR>
><BR>
>I think you're right.  This digest or the last also contains a floppy drive<BR>
>kill, which I though was equally impressive.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    You know what is really scary?  The next step might be entire computer<BR>
kills.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:09:34 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg... )<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav - just how much 'expendable' supplies do Quartermasters not<BR>
> want to have to check back into their stock...and how much of that gets<BR>
sold<BR>
> instead of 'expended'?<BR>
<BR>
Excellent question. Just so you know, I THINK, that the ammo is often in the<BR>
charge of the Ordnance branch of the Support Staff, rather than the<BR>
Quartermaster who administers quartering, rations, other supplies and such.<BR>
Anyone in the army or navy want to shed some light on this?<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:13:42 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
> Good question.  Waaay back in my days in the Canadian Infantry (I call it<BR>
my<BR>
> 'young and stupid' period),<BR>
<BR>
Ah yes, in my young and stupid days my friend was in the Shithawks and his<BR>
brother was in the Royal Engineers. They had all kinds of fatigues etc.,<BR>
camo sticks, c-rats, and such lying around. No FALs thank god, nor ammo.<BR>
Those were the days you could get your FAC in a flash at 16.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:14:43 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop" (goes well with Italians)<BR>
<BR>
> Yes, I grew up in that area and never heard them called anything else<BR>
until<BR>
> Subway opened up.<BR>
><BR>
That is probably because IIRC, Subway was started by a Canadian who went<BR>
South, and we only call them subs here.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:22:07 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
> >> Another important lesson:  Never take an Australian to a baseball game<BR>
> >> without warning them about the 7th inning stretch.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Except in St. Louis' Busch Stadium, where they play the old Budweiser<BR>
> >jingle "Here Comes the King."<BR>
> <BR>
> HEATHENS!!  And you wonder why McGwire keeps getting hurt?<BR>
> -- <BR>
What are those three statements all about? What do they mean?<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:45:46 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Java<BR>
<BR>
> >You have figured it out.  We consultants are in fact, computers of the<BR>
> >future, sent back to your time.  Excellent UI and optimized to maximize<BR>
> >billable hours.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>     And, without an original thought in your empty heads.  For all you are<BR>
> worth, you might as well be chemists.<BR>
><BR>
>     I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, But I get paid more this way.<BR>
<BR>
"It's not what you do, It's how you explain it"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:50:49 -0700<BR>
From: Cliff Linehan <clinehan@sfamipec.com><BR>
Subject: Zhodani Fleet Question<BR>
<BR>
Greetings,<BR>
	Does anyone know if the Zhodani use battle riders? I'm looking for a<BR>
cannon reference if one exists.<BR>
<BR>
Clifford Linehan<BR>
http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller<BR>
Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core route.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:53 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Grand Survey Mailing list<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <004201c0233b$db82d100$0100007f@localdomain><BR>
Greetings dear hearts, especially Tod.<BR>
<BR>
I am a webmeister by profession... and teach it!<BR>
<BR>
Think I'd better come and join this list, heh?<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:53 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.95.1000920135157.23264N-100000@hollywood.cinenet.net>-<BR>
<BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Funnily enough - I have no binocular vision whatsoever. However I have <BR>
excellent, in fact considerably better than normal, night vision.<BR>
<BR>
But I was a botanist by actual degree subject, explosive chemistry is a <BR>
hobby.<BR>
<BR>
And now I'm a webmeister...<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:08:10 +0100<BR>
From: Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
John P. Raynor wrote:<BR>
> I've been thinking about running a campaign in the Beyond and/or <BR>
> the Vanguard Reaches, and was wondering where (if anywhere) to go<BR>
> for canonical information regarding these places.  I took a look<BR>
> at "www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol/traveller/space/index.html",<BR>
> and saw that the Beyond had already been mapped out, and divided<BR>
> between nearly a dozen pocket-sized empires.  A couple of these<BR>
> looked canonical (the Aslan region in sector's rimward/trailing <BR>
> corner also shows up on the map on the inside of the back cover<BR>
> of the old Classic Traveller alien module regarding the Aslan,<BR>
> and according to "home.flash.net/~grazzit/Alien.html", the<BR>
> Florian League was mentioned in an old issue of an old issue of<BR>
> "Travellers' Digest"), but I have doubts about the rest.  The<BR>
> largest pocket empire in the Beyond, for instance, is labelled <BR>
> the "Corellian League" (with a handful of colonies further to <BR>
> rimward), and I have to admit regarding it with some skepticism<BR>
> because of its connection (which, I admit, might be purely a <BR>
> matter of nomenclature) to the "Star Wars" universe.  <BR>
<BR>
This reply is a little late but ...<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for using my StuffOnline site (/trisen/sol).  The big  map<BR>
you were looking at is 100% canonical ... the Beyond sector comes<BR>
from the DGP maps.  The "Corellian League" pocket empire was what<BR>
they called it ... perhaps one of the staff members was  possibly<BR>
a tiny bit of a Star Wars fan?<BR>
<BR>
Now that I know people look at the big map I'm going to  have  to<BR>
add some more sectors ... its one of many  projects  started  and<BR>
never finished.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>
> I am currently working on the Astron, Theta Boriallis(sp), and<BR>
> the Fulani but I have used the alternative system for sector<BR>
> generation from the "Galactic" program, fewer 0 pop high tech<BR>
> worlds that way.<g> I used the dot map locations and generated<BR>
> the data.<BR>
<BR>
(That's "Theta Borealis")  Never liking contradictions,  even  in<BR>
non-canonical sources, I was wondering if you were going to  keep<BR>
the  Korsung  Empire  from  Group  One's  version?   I  use   the<BR>
descendants of the Zerp in my Landgrab writeup of Yori.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:20:13 -0400<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
on 9/21/00 1:13 PM, Mike Demetro at punkabilly@sprint.ca wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Ah yes, in my young and stupid days my friend was in the Shithawks and his<BR>
> brother was in the Royal Engineers. They had all kinds of fatigues etc.,<BR>
> camo sticks, c-rats, and such lying around. No FALs thank god, nor ammo.<BR>
> Those were the days you could get your FAC in a flash at 16.<BR>
<BR>
Tell him I'll trade him for his omelettes, assuming I can find my tabasco...<BR>
<BR>
Another fond memory; being crouched in the forest, dead of winter, waiting<BR>
for the naptha stoves to bring those pots to a boil when, inevitably, one<BR>
would go up rather spectacularly.<BR>
<BR>
Nothing like having to kick an aluminum pot off of a flaming stove to<BR>
recover your half-cooked lunch.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn<BR>
coburn@sympatico.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:57:52 -0700<BR>
From: Edward Swatschek <traveller@bitslayer.net><BR>
Subject: RE: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmmm, I didn't think we were that close to the core (only 26,000 LY in<BR>
> this article...), and I assume that the figure they give for the Black<BR>
> Hole (2.6 million solar masses, and a diameter of 460 Million km) are<BR>
> for the Hole and accretion disk combined... (a sphere of 460Mkm has a<BR>
> volume of ~190 million suns, and Black Holes are denser than stars)<BR>
<BR>
26 000 ly sounds about right.  The figures I've seen bandied about for our<BR>
galaxy's radius range from 35 000 to 50 000 ly, with Sol being roughly<BR>
two-thirds of the way out from the center.<BR>
<BR>
The diameter of the black hole is probably that of it's event horizon.  The<BR>
accretion disk will extend several ly.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Edward Swatschek - edjs@bitslayer.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:33:40 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Search and Rescue/Prisoners of War<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:11:09 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
>From: "Joseph Alberti Jr." <albertijjr@juno.com><BR>
><BR>
>I think each of the factions would handle prisoners differently. <BR>
<BR>
>Vland:  Would follow some old Vilani dictate on the treatment of prisoners.<BR>
<BR>
They'd eat them?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:33:41 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:22:35 -0700<BR>
>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
><BR>
>  Terran _rule_, but Terran culture and values? Traditional Vilani values<BR>
>being eroded I can see - as they doubtless must have been by the series of<BR>
>wars that concealed the scope of the Terran threat - but being _replaced_<BR>
>because the provincial capital under a cadre of Terrans now delivers its <BR>
>warship production over to the Terran fleets?<BR>
<BR>
Not _replaced_ by Terran customs;  I agree that that would be<BR>
overstating things.  Rather, Terran customs being superimposed on top<BR>
and gradually an amalgam forming.  Rather like the imposition of<BR>
Norman culture in Anglo-Saxon England.  <BR>
<BR>
Any Vilani who wanted to do well in life under the Rule of Man would<BR>
need to learn English, mingle with Terrans, perhaps marry a Terran,<BR>
send his children to Terran schools - which is how you end up with a<BR>
planet like Sylea having a self-described "Solomani" population of<BR>
more than one person in ten by Year 0.  I doubt they were *all*<BR>
descendants of Planetary Governor Lieutenant J. Smith, TCN.<BR>
<BR>
>  And urbanization changed the advanced West even more so when the<BR>
>distribution of the need for agricultural labour changed over 200<BR>
>years or so; maybe a lot of people are kidding themselves that our<BR>
>culture bears much resemblance to what it was, but most assume that<BR>
>it's wholly continuous. <BR>
<BR>
Two hundred years ago, I would probably have been out working for a<BR>
living (on a farm) at the age of 8;  married by 14;  I would be<BR>
illiterate, I would own no property, I would be unable to vote;  I<BR>
would think that people from the city 20 miles away were practically<BR>
foreigners, and never have actually gone there myself;  I would enjoy<BR>
watching animals tear each other to pieces as a leisure pursuit,<BR>
spiced up by the occasional public hanging of a poacher or horse<BR>
thief.  Modern Western culture may have *developed* from that of 200<BR>
years ago, but it's not the *same* culture; and people today have<BR>
different attitudes to people then.<BR>
<BR>
>  Terran civilisation collapsed during the Long Night? Or did their<BR>
>control of all but the closest sub-sectors merely lapse? <BR>
<BR>
I'd say that a few pocket empires (including Terra itself) maintaining<BR>
reasonable technology and civilisation amidst a general slide into<BR>
barbarism doesn't invalidate the general picture of a collapse.<BR>
<BR>
>AFAIK from<BR>
>canon few worlds (as opposed to outposts that were never even close<BR>
>to self-sustaining w/o adequate interstellar trade) regressed to <BR>
>"barbarism".<BR>
<BR>
I'm using barbarism as a relative term, not necessarily implying that<BR>
they lived in caves and beat each other over the head with rocks.  To<BR>
someone used to jumpdrive, fusion power and antigrav, our civilisation<BR>
might look barbaric.  As for non-self-sustaining worlds, I was under<BR>
the impression that they would be completely depopulated by the Long<BR>
Night.<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:38:46 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> And that stops them?  For that matter, you think companies won't market to<BR>
> kids simply because those kids can't legally buy?<BR>
<BR>
Not unless there exists a law that prevents them from doing so.<BR>
<BR>
> Of course, my experience is that the 18-20 year olds drink beer (which they<BR>
> also can't legally buy or drink).<BR>
<BR>
In Sweden, it is quite common for 14 year olds to get drunk on beer as<BR>
well as on stronger stuff (homemade spirits, I think the American word<BR>
is Moonshine). Scary when you think about.<BR>
<BR>
The reason that I specify 14 year olds is that a "fourteener" (lousy<BR>
translation) is a common slang word for kids trying to be hip by<BR>
drinking themselves stupid, throwing up in city parks, and generally<BR>
being a nuissance.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:43:05 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
Edward Swatschek writes:<BR>
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Hmmm, I didn't think we were that close to the core (only 26,000 LY in<BR>
> this article...), and I assume that the figure they give for the Black<BR>
> Hole (2.6 million solar masses, and a diameter of 460 Million km) are<BR>
> for the Hole and accretion disk combined... (a sphere of 460Mkm has a<BR>
> volume of ~190 million suns, and Black Holes are denser than stars)<BR>
<BR>
Actually, they aren't.  A black hole has a diameter that is linear in mass<BR>
(roughly 3 kilometers per solar mass) which means the bigger it is, the<BR>
lower its density.  Of course, that still only gives a diameter of 8 million<BR>
kilometers.  However, the really large black holes (billion-sun or so) really<BR>
are lower density than a star.  The 'size' they give is rather puzzling,<BR>
however.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:44:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm writes:<BR>
> Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
> > And that stops them?  For that matter, you think companies won't market<BR>
> > to kids simply because those kids can't legally buy?<BR>
> <BR>
> Not unless there exists a law that prevents them from doing so.<BR>
<BR>
Even if there is such a law, you have to prove that the advertisement is <BR>
actually targeted at minors, which can be difficult to do.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:31:43 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Artificial Personalities by 2020?<BR>
<BR>
At 19:01 +0000 20/9/00, "Greg Ellis" <gnellis@ifn.net> wrote:<BR>
>Boy, ain;t that the truth! Gas prices out here just hit $2.07 a gallon,<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Wow! That's Cheap!<BR>
<BR>
Dom (UK Prices are 0.85 GBP ($1.20ish) a litre!)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:37:33 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
At 15:49 -0400 20/9/00, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:<BR>
>It's also fairly easy to convert to PDF (I do it with ps2pdf in the<BR>
>ghostscript distribution, but I think adobe acrobat can do it too).  PDF<BR>
>is also (potentially) vector-based, and is probably a good choice for<BR>
>a vector graphics file format, as acrobat reader is widely available (or<BR>
>ghostscript can read pdf directly).<BR>
<BR>
PDF is a subset of PostScript, and is vector based.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:50:02 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Disappearing again<BR>
<BR>
Just as I catch up after GenCon UK I find myself in the position that <BR>
I have to be away from my PC for just over a week. If there is <BR>
anything urgent for BITS, please use the bits@bits.org.uk address; <BR>
else just copy my home account (this one) separate from any mailing <BR>
list.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------<BR>
"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion<BR>
that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.<BR>
You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -<BR>
'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's<BR>
MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:54:47 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
SD Mooney writes:<BR>
> At 15:49 -0400 20/9/00, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:<BR>
> >It's also fairly easy to convert to PDF (I do it with ps2pdf in the<BR>
> >ghostscript distribution, but I think adobe acrobat can do it too).  PDF<BR>
> >is also (potentially) vector-based, and is probably a good choice for<BR>
> >a vector graphics file format, as acrobat reader is widely available (or<BR>
> >ghostscript can read pdf directly).<BR>
> <BR>
> PDF is a subset of PostScript, and is vector based.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think its just a subset, at a minimum it has compression, but its<BR>
certainly closely related.  PDF is vector-based unless you're just embedding<BR>
bitmaps in it, in which case they aren't any more vector-based than any other<BR>
bitmap.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:55:59 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplan formats<BR>
<BR>
At 19:29 -0400 20/9/00, Kagehira@aol.com wrote:<BR>
>Can they handle encapsulated Postscript files (as that seems the only version<BR>
>I can output to)?<BR>
<BR>
EPS is about as close to native you can get for Illustrator without <BR>
saving as an AI file. I'd suggest you don't include a preview though, <BR>
as the formats for the previews vary between platforms IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:55:14 +0100<BR>
From: Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com<BR>
Subject: RE: TML Landgrab - Ficant<BR>
<BR>
Reading through the recently posted Ficant Landgrab I  think  I'm<BR>
missing part of the picture.  Some questions  (in  no  particular<BR>
order):<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Is the ethnic difference  between  the  Sword  Worlders  and  the<BR>
Imperial colonists still recognised by Ficant's  population?  Are<BR>
there ethnic tensions  and/or  positive  discrimination  programs<BR>
(aka equal opportunity programs)?<BR>
<BR>
Has the Sword Worlds Confederation taken any interest  in  Ficant<BR>
in recent times?<BR>
<BR>
Does the local Governing Council place any  restrictions  on  the<BR>
import of technology or try to protect the economy in any way?<BR>
<BR>
Does the local Governing Council have any kind of agenda?<BR>
<BR>
How much popular support does the local Governing Council have?<BR>
<BR>
How large is the local armed forces?<BR>
<BR>
If a  megacorporation  (like  SuSAG)  wanted  to  build  a  large<BR>
facility onplanet would this be welcomed?<BR>
<BR>
How much traffic passes through the system?<BR>
<BR>
What taxation might visiting traders expect?<BR>
<BR>
What is the dominant belief system?<BR>
<BR>
How much seasonal variation in the climate is there  at  Atterdag<BR>
(and elsewhere)?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:01:25 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Converting FFS2 to HG<BR>
<BR>
There is a HG to T4 conversion system on my own site:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/<BR>
<BR>
It should work backwards. Rob Eaglestone produced it a while back.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:32:28 -0700<BR>
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nick@traveller.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
> >Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML?<BR>
> Probably. (Me? Five years in the TA.)<BR>
<BR>
I've never been in the military. Never will, either, unless they start<BR>
taking people with pacemakers. I don't think it's enormously likely.<BR>
<BR>
Nick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:16:18 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
<BR>
Simon Hibbs writes:<BR>
>Paul Harris :<BR>
>>Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML? <BR>
>Probably. (Me? Five years in the TA.)<BR>
<BR>
        Nope.  I have never belonged to, worked for, been associated with,<BR>
        or otherwise consorted with the armed forces, militia, military<BR>
        structure or defense department of any nation, political unit,<BR>
        guerilla movement, or mercenary group in the past or present, and<BR>
        almost certainly not in the future.  I have great respect for those that<BR>
        have/do/will do, but it is not my path in life.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3083<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3084</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/21/00 7:11:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 21 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3084<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Re: Hindenberg<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Re: Hindenberg<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
RE: "pop"<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg... )<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
RE: CT Exchange Rate tables<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Striker III etc (was RE: CT Exchange Rate tables)<BR>
Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: "Pop"<BR>
Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
Re: "pop" (goes well with Italians)<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:54 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <39C97D2A.2FAC72B9@premier.net><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
I've only used THIEVES' WORLD itself as a fantasy setting (with PALLADIUM <BR>
RPG rules, as it happens)... but about a year ago ran a very successful <BR>
game which started off as DARK CONSPIRACY. The characters were running <BR>
around Miami FL trying to prevent a madman setting off a nuclear device. <BR>
They finally found the nuclear device just as the madman, who was quite <BR>
understandably driving hell-for-leather down the interstate, was spooked <BR>
by some emergency vehicle sirens and pushed the button.<BR>
<BR>
Big flash.<BR>
<BR>
Shellshocked players... I have never seen quite such a totally gobsmacked <BR>
table-full.<BR>
<BR>
So I let them sit there for 5 minutes going "We're all dead" in tones of <BR>
disbelief...<BR>
<BR>
Then told them where they woke up - turned out to be Vendhya, the 'India' <BR>
of Hyborea (Conan the Barbarian's world). Nuclear device had been sitting <BR>
on some kinda ancient dimensional portal control device, which had sucked <BR>
up all the power, opened a portal and dropped 'em through.<BR>
<BR>
Then they had to find a way back... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:54 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <013b01c023a7$24ca9260$1c66fea9@kosh><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
>> ... having rather a lot of fun on an army exercise with a box of 50<BR>
>> thunderflashes handed to me with the immortal words "And we don't want<BR>
>> them back"...<BR>
>> TechSgt Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
>It's people like you....<BR>
<BR>
>I shall never forget being awoken by a large man in BDUs and an I'm Not<BR>
>Here waistcoat standing at the foot of my sleeping bag, throwing<BR>
>thunderflashes over my head into the centre of the platoon harbour...<BR>
<BR>
Funnily enough, that's just about what I was doing that, scuttling round <BR>
the exercise area in combats and an I'm Not Here waistcoat... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Never mind, on another exercise I was out with the enemy forces. During <BR>
the briefing the officer in charge came up to me and handed me a bright <BR>
yellow cap, and told me that I was the 'bomb expert' of the bunch of <BR>
terrorists that the enemy forces were supposed to be.<BR>
<BR>
He didn't mention the snatch squad they were sending to get me....<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:54:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
At 01:22 PM 9/21/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>> >> Another important lesson:  Never take an Australian to a baseball game<BR>
>> >> without warning them about the 7th inning stretch.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >Except in St. Louis' Busch Stadium, where they play the old Budweiser<BR>
>> >jingle "Here Comes the King."<BR>
>> <BR>
>> HEATHENS!!  And you wonder why McGwire keeps getting hurt?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>What are those three statements all about? What do they mean?<BR>
<BR>
1.  In the middle of a baseball game's seventh inning, it is traditional<BR>
for the crowd to take a "seventh inning stretch" since the game has<BR>
probably been going on for a few hours.  It is traditional to sing "Take Me<BR>
Out To The Ball Game" at this point.<BR>
<BR>
One of the lines in the song is "well, its root, root root for the home<BR>
team, if they don't win it's a shame.."  With the name of the local team<BR>
replacing 'home team'.  "Root" has a very different meaning to folks from<BR>
Oz, more to do with indoor, one on one, inter gender wrestling than team<BR>
sports.<BR>
<BR>
2.  Evidently, the St. Louis Cardinals, who play in Busch Stadium, do not<BR>
follow this hallowed tradition.  The stadium was built by the family that<BR>
owns the brewery that makes the equine urine known as Budweiser, and they<BR>
play an old ad jingle for that "beer."<BR>
<BR>
3. Mark McGwire is one of baseball's most powerful hitters.  Two years ago,<BR>
he shattered a four decade old record for most home runs in a single<BR>
season, and every time he connects the ball goes into Low Earth Orbit.<BR>
Since going from the Oakland A's to the Cardinals, he has been plagued by<BR>
minor injuries.<BR>
<BR>
This is obviously the Baseball Gods rebuke on the Cards for not singing the<BR>
correct song.  The Baseball gods have still not forgiven the red Sox for<BR>
selling babe Ruth to the Yankees, so the Cards had better start making<BR>
amends quickly!  <BR>
<BR>
4.  The San Francisco Giants are gonna win the whole damn thing this year.<BR>
Bye, Bye Baby!! <BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
 "Non possum existimare plus quemquem facini"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:56:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg<BR>
<BR>
At 10:18 AM 9/21/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>You know what is really scary?  The next step might be entire computer<BR>
>kills.<BR>
<BR>
Since I have the Olympics running in the background, don't tempt me to try..<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:30:32 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 00:39:37 -0400 (EDT), shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard<BR>
Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>>Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy<BR>
<BR>
>> ... = grinder = wedge = hero<BR>
<BR>
>No, "hero" is more likely a corruption of the Greek "gyro" (pronounced<BR>
>"gee-ro" with a hard g).<BR>
<BR>
Maybe - or the folk etymology says that it took a hero to eat one, because<BR>
they were so big - but around here, a hero is definitely the same kind of<BR>
sandwich as a wedge/grinder/sub/etc.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:05:55 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg<BR>
<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>You know what is really scary?  The next step might be entire computer<BR>
>>kills.<BR>
><BR>
>Since I have the Olympics running in the background, don't tempt me to<BR>
try..<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Why?  Arizona is cleaning up, Doug, in metal race.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:01:10 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
> Bye, Bye Baby!! <BR>
> <BR>
Thanks. <BR>
<BR>
BTW, Hockey starts in October! WOO HOO!<BR>
<BR>
*grabs toque, cheddar cheese, back bacon and beer*<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:00:03 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
>>Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy<BR>
><BR>
>... = grinder = wedge = hero<BR>
<BR>
For some reason, this particular topic absolutely fascinated me. Now, after<BR>
hitting two libraries and looking over a huge amount of menus on the<BR>
internet, I've come to the conclusion that while they may have a similar<BR>
look (i.e. they're long) they're not really all the same when it comes to<BR>
what counts: the ingredients.<BR>
<BR>
The hoagie, the hero, the grinder and the po' boy are all old sandwiches.<BR>
The terms hoagie and grinder are both said to date back to the naval yards<BR>
of World War I, and the sandwiches are both undoubtedly Italian-American in<BR>
origin. As I mentioned in another post, the term hero has been dated to the<BR>
1920s. Po' boy is also a very old term, but unlike the others, this sandwich<BR>
does not appear to have an Italian origin. A po' boy is traditionally made<BR>
on a French roll, and there are big differences with respect to what<BR>
actually goes into the roll. It seems that anything can go into a po' boy<BR>
and the sandwich will still be a po' boy. According to the menus I've been<BR>
reading on the Internet, grinder is fairly consistently applied along to<BR>
East Coast to heated versions of the hero / hoagie. However, as one moves<BR>
west, grinders seem to cool down and the term seems to become synonymous<BR>
with hoagie or hero.<BR>
<BR>
It looks like nearly everybody agrees that the term submarine sandwich is of<BR>
later vintage. It seems to be a much more generic term. Long sandwiches of<BR>
various sorts on many menus - especially as one moves west - are simply<BR>
called subs. My suspicion is that the term caught on during the great<BR>
suburban migration / fast-food boom in post World War II America.<BR>
<BR>
So here's the ObTrav:<BR>
<BR>
What I found most interesting, at least with respect to the northern long<BR>
sandwiches, is where their names come from and what they suggest. In various<BR>
parts of New Jersey such sandwiches are, or were, known as bombers and zeps<BR>
(probably shortened from "zeppelin"). In Norristown, a suburb of<BR>
Philadelphia, I believe they're still referred to as zeps. Hoagie is<BR>
believed to have originated at the Hog Island shipyards during World War I.<BR>
The term grinder is said to refer to the workers at similar shipyards up and<BR>
down the East Coast during World War I. The term submarine, applied to<BR>
similar sandwiches, seems to be based on their similarity to submarines of<BR>
the Word War II era and after.<BR>
<BR>
The pattern here is that the names all seem related to, at least in some<BR>
fashion, military vehicles. It forces me to ask: is it possible to find a<BR>
decent kinunir[1] on Regina? Does anyone know what kind of tigresses[2]<BR>
folks might find in Daibei? Might long sandwiches come to be known as some<BR>
corruption of rampart or pinnace? ("I'll have a rampie with makitiki and<BR>
veriyer, but no  green peppers. They always give me heartburn.").<BR>
<BR>
[1] kinunir - A "pocket" sandwich. Basically, it's Sylean flatbread wrapped<BR>
around various heated meats and cheeses in the shape of a wide, flat cone.<BR>
It's rather floppy, so eating one can be somewhat messy.<BR>
<BR>
[2] tigress - Any sort of sandwich placed on a nearly spherical, but<BR>
extremely light and flaky, roll. Different worlds have their own specialty<BR>
tigresses, based on the local ingredients.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:46:17 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Sep 2000, at 21:07, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Sodium and potassium are both *lighter* than water. They *float*. A<BR>
> *really* large hunk of sodium might hit the bottom. But that'd take<BR>
> *pounds*. <BR>
<BR>
Curious. I just checked and you're right, but I've seen bits of Sodium that <BR>
were skipping across the surface of a bowl (on the little 'air cushion' of <BR>
steam and flame) hit the side of the bowl and sink. Weird.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:46:17 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
On 20 Sep 2000, at 20:56, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>fulminate of mercury,<BR>
> ><BR>
> > The only problem I had was getting mercury - good thermometers get expensive.<BR>
> <BR>
> Mercury switches. They are used in a lot of stuff. Better yet, the ones<BR>
> used as "silent" light switches eventually fail in a manner that leaves<BR>
> the glass "bulb" with the mercury intact.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, I thought of mercury switches, etc later. My real ambition was to get <BR>
hold of the school's mercury store. They had enough to fill a tray about a foot <BR>
square to a depth of about half and inch. There's a chemistry experiment (I <BR>
forget which) that runs a gas over a mercury bath that acts as a catlyst, and <BR>
that's what it was for. I never did find out where they kept it, though. The <BR>
head of Chemistry was a clever man, and as he had much the the attitude towards <BR>
things that go bang he was pretty canny about that sort of thing.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:54:10 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg... )<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Sep 2000, at 13:09, Mike Demetro wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > ObTrav - just how much 'expendable' supplies do Quartermasters not<BR>
> > want to have to check back into their stock...and how much of that gets<BR>
> sold<BR>
> > instead of 'expended'?<BR>
> <BR>
> Excellent question. Just so you know, I THINK, that the ammo is often in the<BR>
> charge of the Ordnance branch of the Support Staff, rather than the<BR>
> Quartermaster who administers quartering, rations, other supplies and such.<BR>
> Anyone in the army or navy want to shed some light on this?<BR>
<BR>
Here in NZ that was the case un until recently, but if what I hear is true <BR>
they've lump the whole lot together.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:54:10 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Sep 2000, at 2:25, Nick Bradbeer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > > made LOTs of napalm (steric acid type)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Is that the sort that uses beef fat? I made a brew of that with a friend<BR>
> and it<BR>
> > went too hard. We ended up with these jelly cubes made of petrol.<BR>
> <BR>
> Styrene dissolved in petrol works surprisingly well.<BR>
<BR>
I grew up on a ten acre block in a farming area. Styrene in any form was rather <BR>
rarer than beef fat, meths, salt, etc. The only ingredient I might have had <BR>
trouble with was the caustic soda (Sodium Hydroxide), but my father works in <BR>
the Dairy Research Institute, and they use it for cleaning things, so he had a <BR>
supply he'd brought home.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:43:49 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: RE: CT Exchange Rate tables<BR>
<BR>
Steve Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >  Has anyone got any idea which of the three (?) versions of the <BR>
 >Exchange Rate tables in CT is authoritative?<BR>
 ><BR>
 >  We've got the one in the TRADE AND COMMERCE article in JTAS #4,<BR>
 >Striker Book: 2, and Trillion Credit Squadron's. Striker is the<BR>
 >one that deviates, in that the fall-off per TL inferiority is 0.10<BR>
 >CrImp rather 0.05 in the other two sources - i.e., TL 9 (port A)<BR>
 >money trades at CrImp (F:A) 0.40 in Striker rather than 0.70.<BR>
<BR>
I'd say Striker is out-voted by the other two.  What are the publication<BR>
dates for the three products?  You could argue that the latest one is<BR>
the most accurate.  Then again you could just pick your favorite &<BR>
use it consistently.  It may depend on which product you use most.<BR>
<BR>
 >The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its'<BR>
 >Product"<BR>
<BR>
How about: "There is no Game but Traveller, and Striker is its Product."<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:47:19<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
At 05:01 PM 9/21/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>> Bye, Bye Baby!! <BR>
>> <BR>
>Thanks. <BR>
><BR>
>BTW, Hockey starts in October! WOO HOO!<BR>
<BR>
Viva Los Tiburons de San Jose!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:33:11 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Striker III etc (was RE: CT Exchange Rate tables)<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>  >The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its'<BR>
>  >Product"<BR>
><BR>
> How about: "There is no Game but Traveller, and Striker is its Product."<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Striker is a pretty good game, perhaps the best miniatures rules which I<BR>
have played, but it suffers a bit from having a design sequence which is<BR>
just too complex. Note, for example, that it's almost impossible to create a<BR>
spreadsheet that you can use to design vehicles. If you try to include even<BR>
a significant fraction of the possible options, you soon find out that its<BR>
fairly unwieldy.<BR>
<BR>
High Guard, on the other hand, has a design system which can easily fit on a<BR>
spreadsheet. There must be a way to streamline Striker so that it's more<BR>
understandible. In addition to a simpler system being more fun to use, it<BR>
will also appeal to a larger audience, which is certainly good for<BR>
Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
I would suggest that the people working on FF&S3 tear up all of their work,<BR>
or use a strong cryptographic file deletion if its only in electronic form,<BR>
and focus on a gearhead project which gives Traveller broader appeal rather<BR>
than narrower.<BR>
<BR>
Another alternative is a 101 Striker Vehicles project. Having useful designs<BR>
on hand for a wide range of TLs would certainly make the game more<BR>
appealing.<BR>
<BR>
Some really ambitions person could even run a monthly Striker design contest<BR>
like the old THUDDD, except for Striker. That should certainly provide<BR>
enough input for the 101 SV project.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:35:54 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:46 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid<BR>
Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> On 20 Sep 2000, at 21:07, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Sodium and potassium are both *lighter* than water. They *float*. A<BR>
> > *really* large hunk of sodium might hit the bottom. But that'd take<BR>
> > *pounds*.<BR>
><BR>
> Curious. I just checked and you're right, but I've seen bits of Sodium<BR>
that<BR>
> were skipping across the surface of a bowl (on the little 'air cushion' of<BR>
> steam and flame) hit the side of the bowl and sink. Weird.<BR>
<BR>
The reaction product might be denser than water, thus after a time of<BR>
floating around the density has increased so it sinks, until the product<BR>
dissolves.<BR>
<BR>
This is a guess BTW, as I haven't done any chemistry since school nearly 20<BR>
years ago, and I don't have all these useful books lying around to you all<BR>
seem to have <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:24:41 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: "Pop"<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:19:am<BR>
Subject: Re: "Pop"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 11:14 AM 9/20/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >On a related note, my gaming group has come up with a classification<BR>
> >scheme for soft-drinks based on color and "exoticism".  That is:<BR>
><BR>
> My wife and I both drink Coke, but she prefers Diet.  We refer to her<BR>
drink<BR>
> as "unleaded."<BR>
<BR>
Same here, only diet or low-fat anything is "unleaded" while the normal<BR>
stuff is "super" (our grades of fuel were "standard and super" until<BR>
unleaded came along to replace standard, so before then, diet soft drinks<BR>
and low-fat milks were standard or super :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:29:10 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 3:51:am<BR>
Subject: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 23:18 -0400 19/9/00,  "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au> wrote:<BR>
> >DIf you want to try, I'd support you.  This mob is probably the largest<BR>
game<BR>
> >importer in Oz and I have dealt with them for more years than I can<BR>
> >remember, starting out with ordering miniatures and  Traveller LBB's, and<BR>
my<BR>
> >sub to JTAS in the good old days.  They are currently advertising in<BR>
their<BR>
> >Spring 2000 catalogue, the three CT reprint books.  They have always been<BR>
> >Traveller friendly in the past.<BR>
><BR>
> Consider this noted - I'll let you know where this gets to.<BR>
><BR>
> Dom<BR>
<BR>
Please do.  I don't use plastic, I pay the old fashion way with cheques, so<BR>
I skip looking at BITS stuff for such reasons (it's a hassle), so I'd love<BR>
to see BITS in a MilSim cat and have good access to it :^))<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:14:11 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:40:am<BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
(was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Good question.  Waaay back in my days in the Canadian Infantry (I call it<BR>
my<BR>
> 'young and stupid' period), we once went into the field shortly before the<BR>
> end of the military fiscal year.  Many a toy was given us, as I recall; we<BR>
> almost felt like Americans!  <g><BR>
><BR>
> As I understand it, whatever didn't get used didn't get replaced in the<BR>
next<BR>
> year's budgetary allotment, and lord forbid we actually get less money<BR>
(even<BR>
> if less money would be needed)!<BR>
><BR>
> Nope, we're not corrupt, just prone to weird leaps of logic...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Same in Oz in the 70's-80's... and I don't think much would have changed<BR>
from then on in!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:16:19 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop" (goes well with Italians)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: swordworlder <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:26:am<BR>
Subject: Re: "pop" (goes well with Italians)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Maine has only one name for the things.  Mainers go to Subway to get<BR>
> "Italians".  Funny, I've never seen anything but pimply-faced yanks and<BR>
old<BR>
> French ladies in Subway shops downeast. :-)<BR>
><BR>
> Now where was it that they called them Torpedoes?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Australia?  That's what we in Q'ld called em before Subways arrived...<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:41:36 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 8:53:am<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> FTR, my father had to do business in Australia once - he swore up and down<BR>
> that whatever they spoke there, it wasn't English.<BR>
<BR>
LOL!  I'll have to buy that... a mate of mine went to the U.S. a couple of<BR>
times on hols, and while there, everytime he went into a Subways and ordered<BR>
a sub (usually something that had lots of meat and cheese, and possibly lots<BR>
of gravy or sauce), they would make him just a plain saladie thing...<BR>
EVERYTIME!  Not being the one to say, "Excuse me, that's not what I<BR>
ordered..." he would take what he was given and simply wonder if it was his<BR>
not-local accent???? :^)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 12:06:39 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Phill Webb <pwebbtrav@yarranet.net.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:38:am<BR>
Subject: Re: Aussie Importer Dom...?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > BTW, I thought that Jedko were the main RPG importers? Is it really<BR>
> > Mil Sims?<BR>
><BR>
> I could be wrong but I think Mil Sims is the mail order part of Jedko.<BR>
><BR>
> Phill<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I believe that to be the case, but I haven't hear the name Jedko for 10 or<BR>
more years!  Are they still around???<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:21:28 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
><BR>
>>OK, a bag of jelly babies to the first person to name where the idea of dog<BR>
>>milk as an emergency supply in the ships locker comes from.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>     Red Dwarf.  Season 7.<BR>
<BR>
Hey! No spoilers. We just started season 1 here! <g><BR>
<BR>
Last show had Lister getting pregnant.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:28:14 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm writes:<BR>
>> Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>
>> > And that stops them?  For that matter, you think companies won't market<BR>
>> > to kids simply because those kids can't legally buy?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Not unless there exists a law that prevents them from doing so.<BR>
><BR>
> Even if there is such a law, you have to prove that the advertisement is <BR>
> actually targeted at minors, which can be difficult to do.<BR>
<BR>
Not terribly hard. Every case so far has been supported by things like<BR>
minutes of meetings and notes in files. Plus memos and the like. <BR>
<BR>
Marketing types don't do sdecurity worth a dam.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3084<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3085</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/22/00 12:30:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3085<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
Re: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
RE: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Re: fun with chemistry...<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
Re: Striker question<BR>
Re: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth(was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
RE: Penguins<BR>
Re: Penguins<BR>
RE: Hindenberg<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg... )<BR>
still doubtful that my messages get posted to TML...<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (contains spoiler)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:24:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> Ahhh, then we don't really have that problem here since half that<BR>
>> demographic is unable to drink legally here.<BR>
><BR>
> And that stops them?  For that matter, you think companies won't market to<BR>
> kids simply because those kids can't legally buy?<BR>
<BR>
There's a big stink right now abourt the movie industry marketing R<BR>
rating films to the under 17 crowd. Keep in mind that it's *legal* for<BR>
an under 17 kid to go to such a movie as long as his parents ok it. <BR>
<BR>
And after the way the cigarette companies got nailed for marketing<BR>
aimed at younger kids, I don't think any company is going to try it<BR>
unless they are *incredibly* stupid, or else convinced that they'll<BR>
never get caught (yeah, right...).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:07:26 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg Was	When...was...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Yeah, I thought of mercury switches, etc later. My real ambition was<BR>
> to get hold of the school's mercury store. They had enough to fill a<BR>
> tray about a foot square to a depth of about half and inch. There's a<BR>
> chemistry experiment (I forget which) that runs a gas over a mercury<BR>
> bath that acts as a catlyst, and that's what it was for. I never did<BR>
> find out where they kept it, though. The head of Chemistry was a<BR>
> clever man, and as he had much the the attitude towards things that<BR>
> go bang he was pretty canny about that sort of thing.<BR>
<BR>
If you'd found it, you wouldn't have been able to move it. <BR>
<BR>
I was once asked to hand my chemistry teacher the bottle of mercury<BR>
that was sitting on the lab bench next to him. It was only a liter  or<BR>
so. Which meant it weighed 13.6 kilos!<BR>
<BR>
My first though was that it was nailed to the bench. Then I got it to<BR>
move a little and realized how heavy it was. I then used *both* hands<BR>
to pick it up. <BR>
<BR>
The 12"x12"x.5" volume you mention would weigh pretty close to 16<BR>
kilos. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:30:26 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Hmmm, I didn't think we were that close to the core (only 26,000 LY in<BR>
> this article...), and I assume that the figure they give for the Black<BR>
> Hole (2.6 million solar masses, and a diameter of 460 Million km) are<BR>
> for the Hole and accretion disk combined... (a sphere of 460Mkm has a<BR>
> volume of ~190 million suns, and Black Holes are denser than stars)<BR>
<BR>
Not necessarily. The bigger the hole gets, the *lower* the density. A<BR>
BH the size of the universe would be about as dense as the universe :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 12:19:10 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:55:am<BR>
Subject: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML? I<BR>
> tried to join the Reserves once, but was rejected!<BR>
<BR>
<Snip><BR>
<BR>
> Still, it's good to see the wealth of military experience here... love<BR>
> the little anecdotes... even if some do go over my head!<BR>
><BR>
> As a side note, my wife has commented that since she started playing<BR>
> traveller, she understands what is meant by APC and LAW, TAC Missile and<BR>
> other military terminology.<BR>
><BR>
> Oh... and I met her at a traveller game.... she ended up marrying the<BR>
> ref! <grin> Our son is only nine months, but I am already teaching him<BR>
> to roll dice!<BR>
><BR>
> Paul<BR>
<BR>
Well Paul, to me, THAT is an anecdote to be proud of!<BR>
<BR>
Though my missus wouldn't understand LAW or TAC, she does remember fondly<BR>
the rides in an APC (a 113) on various open days... cutting through the<BR>
bush, the swamp, and over old, dumped car shells... :^)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:30:34 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
<BR>
In re "sub"<BR>
<BR>
> My suspicion is that the term caught on during the great<BR>
>  suburban migration / fast-food boom in post World War II America.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps. I think the use of "sub" as short for "submarine sandwich" predates <BR>
WWII, on the basis of dimly remembered references in (or all things) a Popeye <BR>
cartoon.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 12:46:16 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Pronto <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 3:07:pm<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Keyboard Kill!!   And I'm a little worried I may have gotten coffee in my<BR>
> floppy drive.........<BR>
> Does anyone know what coffee does to a floppy drive?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Hmmm...   ObTrav:   How well does Starship instumentation stand up to<BR>
those<BR>
> little accidents?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
This was tried in a game of mine many winters ago... I figured though, that<BR>
it wasn't unrealistic that such critical instrumentation would be sealed<BR>
from liquid spillage from the outside - that you would have to undo the<BR>
panel to break that seal...<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:38:23 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: The Roc [mailto:roc@kewl.com.au]<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> Though my missus wouldn't understand LAW or TAC, she does <BR>
> remember fondly<BR>
> the rides in an APC (a 113) on various open days... cutting <BR>
> through the<BR>
> bush, the swamp, and over old, dumped car shells... :^)<BR>
<BR>
Ahhh... the old dream of driving a tank to work! Traffic... not a<BR>
problem!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:21:48 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Chris Seamans <semo@pil.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 7:00:am<BR>
Subject: RE: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<Snip><BR>
<BR>
>A po' boy is traditionally made<BR>
> on a French roll, and there are big differences with respect to what<BR>
> actually goes into the roll. It seems that anything can go into a po' boy<BR>
> and the sandwich will still be a po' boy. According to the menus I've been<BR>
> reading on the Internet, grinder is fairly consistently applied along to<BR>
> East Coast to heated versions of the hero / hoagie. However, as one moves<BR>
> west, grinders seem to cool down and the term seems to become synonymous<BR>
> with hoagie or hero.<BR>
><BR>
> It looks like nearly everybody agrees that the term submarine sandwich is<BR>
of<BR>
> later vintage. It seems to be a much more generic term. Long sandwiches of<BR>
> various sorts on many menus - especially as one moves west - are simply<BR>
> called subs. My suspicion is that the term caught on during the great<BR>
> suburban migration / fast-food boom in post World War II America.<BR>
><BR>
> So here's the ObTrav:<BR>
><BR>
> What I found most interesting, at least with respect to the northern long<BR>
> sandwiches, is where their names come from and what they suggest. In<BR>
various<BR>
> parts of New Jersey such sandwiches are, or were, known as bombers and<BR>
zeps<BR>
> (probably shortened from "zeppelin"). In Norristown, a suburb of<BR>
> Philadelphia, I believe they're still referred to as zeps. Hoagie is<BR>
> believed to have originated at the Hog Island shipyards during World War<BR>
I.<BR>
> The term grinder is said to refer to the workers at similar shipyards up<BR>
and<BR>
> down the East Coast during World War I. The term submarine, applied to<BR>
> similar sandwiches, seems to be based on their similarity to submarines of<BR>
> the Word War II era and after.<BR>
><BR>
> The pattern here is that the names all seem related to, at least in some<BR>
> fashion, military vehicles. It forces me to ask: is it possible to find a<BR>
> decent kinunir[1] on Regina? Does anyone know what kind of tigresses[2]<BR>
> folks might find in Daibei? Might long sandwiches come to be known as some<BR>
> corruption of rampart or pinnace? ("I'll have a rampie with makitiki and<BR>
> veriyer, but no  green peppers. They always give me heartburn.").<BR>
<BR>
reading what you wrote suggests to me more of the "Shipyard" naming than the<BR>
actual ships made there (unless I missed something in the terminology?), so<BR>
shouldn't the question be, "Is it possible to find a good Linger (Ling<BR>
Standard Shipyard?) or a Aurie (Guess ;) on those worlds?"  And would a<BR>
long-roll also be called a missile or rocket?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:20:52 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: fun with chemistry...<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob asked:<BR>
>What happens when teenagers start messing with grav generators?<BR>
<BR>
You get grav pogo-sticks. With orbital range.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, did you say teens or pre-teens? FS and Mr Roderick Darroch Elliot have a<BR>
lot to answer for, such as the BTTF2-inspired grav skateboard.<BR>
<BR>
More seriously, read the short story "A Little Night Flying" and the novel<BR>
_Vertigo_ for an example of a grav-belt society. Both by by Bob Shaw (_Other<BR>
Days, Other Eyes_, _Orbitsville_, etc).<BR>
<BR>
Another (canonical) example are the Darrian flame sculptures. Oh, and grav-ball.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:34:15 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 1:38:pm<BR>
Subject: RE: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: The Roc [mailto:roc@kewl.com.au]<BR>
><BR>
> <snip><BR>
><BR>
> > Though my missus wouldn't understand LAW or TAC, she does<BR>
> > remember fondly<BR>
> > the rides in an APC (a 113) on various open days... cutting<BR>
> > through the<BR>
> > bush, the swamp, and over old, dumped car shells... :^)<BR>
><BR>
> Ahhh... the old dream of driving a tank to work! Traffic... not a<BR>
> problem!<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
One of my dreams!  A bloke I was in with, his father owned a war museum and<BR>
he was able to take the old Saracen wheeled APC for weekend spins - on the<BR>
road.  Even used it as the wedding limo when he got married!!  And for a<BR>
while, Ferret armoured cars (the little 4-wheelers) were popular surplus in<BR>
the 70's, just cost so much to make them street legal (permits and the<BR>
like).<BR>
<BR>
I still have a clipping from a magazine of a Swedish bloke that designed and<BR>
built himself a small (low to the ground small) tracked APC that he got<BR>
street legal for driving to the office (the pic had him in a business suit<BR>
and tank helmet driving in the middle of traffic) - again in the 70's...<BR>
<BR>
And more recently, there is a fellow in London, England driving an ex-Desert<BR>
Shield/Storm, safety-yellow Scorpion (or is it the other one - Scimitar??<BR>
Though I may be mistaken on both???!! ;) around, street legal - saw that one<BR>
on a reasonably recent Discovery Channel doco.<BR>
<BR>
Yep, tis been a dream of mine to own and run an APC for such things as BBQ's<BR>
and picnic :^))<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:50:18 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Striker question<BR>
<BR>
> My intention for a tandem mount (which is not provided for in the rules) was<BR>
> to guarantee more damage from a hit, but we in the San Jose group have not<BR>
> come to a conclusion about how to handle it.<BR>
<BR>
Here's what I would say:  Instead of focusing on designing a house rule<BR>
(which has to be related to every new player, may or may not be accepted<BR>
by all) that gives a very slight perceived benefit, focus on what the<BR>
rules allow that represents what you want to do.  You want more hits?<BR>
use a light machine gun; you want more hits and more damage? use a heavy<BR>
machine gun.<BR>
<BR>
Of the two other responses: Tykoduk's is probably the best except for<BR>
the random number (unless he really wasn't under Zho influence and did<BR>
mean 2); Steve's answer didn't scale with range and was<BR>
disproportionately powerful compared to autofire bonuses (3<BR>
weapons=+2/+2/+2 versus a ROF of 20 getting +2/+1/0).<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:35:33 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net> asked:<BR>
>Does anyone know if the "Thieve's World" has a present location?<BR>
<BR>
There is a "Thieves World" in subsector A of the Vanguard Reaches that seems a<BR>
likely candidate.<BR>
<BR>
Interestingly enough, when I created my version of Far Frontiers sector<BR>
(immediately coreward of the Reaches) - and prior to my obtaining a copy of VR -<BR>
I placed a "Thieves World" in subsector M. Turned out that the two were about 6<BR>
parsecs apart - it felt like being in a dicovered check situation when I read<BR>
the Reaches supplement. The sort of situation where all the hairs on the back of<BR>
your neck stand up. Spooky.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, my thought was that if the PC's ever went there, they would find that it<BR>
is the same world at both locations, and it either exists simultaneously or<BR>
ping-pongs between the two locations (I haven't decided). Obviously this is the<BR>
effect of the rift between dimensions that allows a magic-based universe to<BR>
impinge on a science-based one. Or whatever other handwave I feel like at the<BR>
time. ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:01:25 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
>>     Red Dwarf.  Season 7.<BR>
><BR>
>Hey! No spoilers. We just started season 1 here! <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I didn't give a spoiler, just the season.<BR>
<BR>
>Last show had Lister getting pregnant.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    LOL.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:30:44 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth(was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
From: "Ross Coburn" <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
<BR>
> on 9/21/00 1:13 PM, Mike Demetro at punkabilly@sprint.ca wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > Ah yes, in my young and stupid days my friend was in the Shithawks and<BR>
his<BR>
> > brother was in the Royal Engineers. They had all kinds of fatigues etc.,<BR>
> > camo sticks, c-rats, and such lying around. No FALs thank god, nor ammo.<BR>
> > Those were the days you could get your FAC in a flash at 16.<BR>
><BR>
> Tell him I'll trade him for his omelettes, assuming I can find my<BR>
tabasco...<BR>
><BR>
> Another fond memory; being crouched in the forest, dead of winter, waiting<BR>
> for the naptha stoves to bring those pots to a boil when, inevitably, one<BR>
> would go up rather spectacularly.<BR>
><BR>
> Nothing like having to kick an aluminum pot off of a flaming stove to<BR>
> recover your half-cooked lunch.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Ross Coburn<BR>
> coburn@sympatico.ca<BR>
><BR>
Hehehe.   Been there.  Did you ever get in a bad enough fix to have to use a<BR>
mountain stove to heat 'rats'?  I've blown more mountain stoves up than I<BR>
ever got to work properly. Then I got to work with 3rd PPCLI and their<BR>
Grizzlys with that wonderful electric pressure cooker. Boiling hot water all<BR>
the time. Thats as close to heaven as a infantry type gets.<BR>
<BR>
You'd actually eat IMP omelettes?  There isn't enough tabasco in the world<BR>
to lead me to eat those.  (Unless they've been improved in the last 10<BR>
years.)  Turkey with gravy chunks was my fav.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:43:45 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) sez:<BR>
<BR>
>>     Red Dwarf.  Season 7.<BR>
><BR>
>Hey! No spoilers. We just started season 1 here! <g><BR>
><BR>
>Last show had Lister getting pregnant.<BR>
<BR>
 Alright, I've been boggled. Leonard not being familiar with Red Dwarf is... <BR>
well, it's... er... unexpected?<BR>
<BR>
 Red Dwarf has been part of the in-joke lexicon in my gaming circles for <BR>
YEARS, so I tend to forget that one of our local PBS affiliates is rather <BR>
unique. Sunday nights we get a mix of Red Dwarf, Dr. Who, Space Island One, <BR>
anime of various sorts (Urusei Yatsura for a long time, Evangelion recently, <BR>
and Please Save My Earth at the moment), and the New Red Green Show. Most of <BR>
these are shown nowhere else among the US PBS community, and only a few hit <BR>
cable...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:05:54 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> My suspicion is that the term caught on during the great<BR>
>>  suburban migration / fast-food boom in post World War II America.<BR>
><BR>
>Perhaps. I think the use of "sub" as short for "submarine sandwich"<BR>
predates<BR>
>WWII, on the basis of dimly remembered references in (or all things) a<BR>
Popeye<BR>
>cartoon.<BR>
<BR>
Nifty! Do you happen to know the context it appeared in, a fragment of the<BR>
plot? Barring that, do you remember whether Popeye was wearing a white navy<BR>
uniform and a sailor's hat, or a red and blue shirt and a yachting cap? Or<BR>
did you see it before World War II (I apologize if I'm way off the mark with<BR>
respect to your age on that point).<BR>
<BR>
{For those who are wondering, Popeye, like many other cartoon characters,<BR>
was pressed into service in World War II. The cartoon Popeye donned a white<BR>
navy uniform and traded in his yachting cap for a dixie cup. He remained in<BR>
both for several decades.)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: What happens to the entertainers and cartoon characters of the<BR>
Imperium when the Imperium goes up against the Zhodani or the Solomani? Was<BR>
this what went wrong during the psychohistorical manipulations leading to<BR>
the psionics suppressions? Did the kids overdose on racist portrayals of<BR>
scrawny Zhodani with gigantic turbans?<BR>
<BR>
I can see the title card now:<BR>
<BR>
"Fiegeltoons presents: Slappy the Spacehand in 'Clobber the Mind Robbers!'"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:17:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:46 PM<BR>
<BR>
> From: Pronto <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 3:07:pm<BR>
><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Keyboard Kill!!   And I'm a little worried I may have gotten coffee in<BR>
my<BR>
> > floppy drive.........<BR>
> > Does anyone know what coffee does to a floppy drive?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Hmmm...   ObTrav:   How well does Starship instumentation stand up to<BR>
> those little accidents?<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> This was tried in a game of mine many winters ago... I figured though,<BR>
that<BR>
> it wasn't unrealistic that such critical instrumentation would be sealed<BR>
> from liquid spillage from the outside - that you would have to undo the<BR>
> panel to break that seal...<BR>
><BR>
> -- The Roc<BR>
><BR>
Surely some form of removable media would be used (analogous to a floppy or<BR>
CD) to transfer large amounts of data or to install new programs?<BR>
Or would that kind of access be placed out of harms way? If so, where?<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:32:51 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Pronto [mailto:Pronto_r031@telus.net]<BR>
> Sent: Friday, 22 September 2000 15:17<BR>
<BR>
> > This was tried in a game of mine many winters ago... I <BR>
> figured though,<BR>
> that<BR>
> > it wasn't unrealistic that such critical instrumentation <BR>
> would be sealed<BR>
> > from liquid spillage from the outside - that you would have <BR>
> to undo the<BR>
> > panel to break that seal...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > -- The Roc<BR>
> ><BR>
> Surely some form of removable media would be used (analogous <BR>
> to a floppy or<BR>
> CD) to transfer large amounts of data or to install new programs?<BR>
> Or would that kind of access be placed out of harms way? If so, where?<BR>
<BR>
Surely the 'Computer Room'?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:50:06 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
From: "Paul Harris" <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 11:32 PM<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: Pronto [mailto:Pronto_r031@telus.net]<BR>
> > Sent: Friday, 22 September 2000 15:17<BR>
> <BR>
> > > This was tried in a game of mine many winters ago... I <BR>
> > figured though,<BR>
> > that<BR>
> > > it wasn't unrealistic that such critical instrumentation <BR>
> > would be sealed<BR>
> > > from liquid spillage from the outside - that you would have <BR>
> > to undo the<BR>
> > > panel to break that seal...<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > -- The Roc<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > Surely some form of removable media would be used (analogous <BR>
> > to a floppy or<BR>
> > CD) to transfer large amounts of data or to install new programs?<BR>
> > Or would that kind of access be placed out of harms way? If so, where?<BR>
> <BR>
> Surely the 'Computer Room'?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Ok.....  <Blush>  That makes sense.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:32:39 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Hindenberg<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion wrote :<BR>
> From: Glenn M. Goffin <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
> <BR>
> >>> Gee, thanks, Frank...now I've spit coffee all over my monitor<BR>
> >> That is the first monitor kill recorded on the TML if I am correct.<BR>
> >> Good going, Frank.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I think you're right.  This digest or the last also contains a <BR>
> > floppy drive kill, which I though was equally impressive.<BR>
> <BR>
> You know what is really scary?  <BR>
> The next step might be entire computer kills.<BR>
<BR>
Now you know how Virus works.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:20:02 -0700<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg... )<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Excellent question. Just so you know, I THINK, that the ammo is often in the<BR>
> charge of the Ordnance branch of the Support Staff, rather than the<BR>
> Quartermaster who administers quartering, rations, other supplies and such.<BR>
> Anyone in the army or navy want to shed some light on this?<BR>
<BR>
In my universe a Quartermaster is a rating who assists The Navigator. Keepers<BR>
of charts and what-not.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
When Spring comes back with rustling shade,<BR>
And apple blossoms fills the air,<BR>
I have a rendezvous with Death,<BR>
When spring brings back blue days and fair.<BR>
 Legionnaire Alan Seeger, KIA the Somme.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 03:21:36 -0700<BR>
From: "fadetozero" <bempath@iserv.net><BR>
Subject: still doubtful that my messages get posted to TML...<BR>
<BR>
what is the consensus on the ethics of getting photocopies of OOP material<BR>
from people?  my personal stance is that i want the copies, i wish to<BR>
negotiate a mutually agreeable wage for peoples' time, and i want to pay the<BR>
originators' of the material either fair market price, or the price they are<BR>
willing to let the material be photocopied for, or electronically<BR>
republished for (whichever is lower, of course...)<BR>
<BR>
What are the Traveller Community's thoughts on the matter?<BR>
<BR>
jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:20:28 +0800<BR>
From: Nattrass <wulfren@opera.iinet.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (contains spoiler)<BR>
<BR>
At 06:21 PM 21/09/00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > From: Jones, Dean <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
> ><BR>
> >>OK, a bag of jelly babies to the first person to name where the idea of dog<BR>
> >>milk as an emergency supply in the ships locker comes from.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> >     Red Dwarf.  Season 7.<BR>
<BR>
wait a moment<BR>
season 6 was the despair squid then they lose holly for most of the next 2 <BR>
seasons because someone stole the model to red dwarf wasn't it?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3085<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3086</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3086<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Taxing energy<BR>
Re: Surplus <BR>
Striker III<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
RE: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg... )<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: CT Exchange Rate tables<BR>
HGS v1.03 now available<BR>
I'll have a kinunir with salami and veshuugan, please... (was: RE: "pop")<BR>
RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
High Recoil Fun<BR>
Re: Popeye and subs<BR>
Re: Copies<BR>
RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
Request for graphic aid<BR>
Re: Request for graphic aid<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3085<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth(was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:02:32 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com <GypsyComet@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
> Alright, I've been boggled. Leonard not being familiar with Red Dwarf<BR>
is...<BR>
>well, it's... er... unexpected?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Quite.  Leonard is one of the most knowledgeable members of the TML.<BR>
<BR>
> Red Dwarf has been part of the in-joke lexicon in my gaming circles for<BR>
>YEARS, so I tend to forget that one of our local PBS affiliates is rather<BR>
>unique. Sunday nights we get a mix of Red Dwarf, Dr. Who, Space Island One,<BR>
>anime of various sorts (Urusei Yatsura for a long time, Evangelion<BR>
recently,<BR>
>and Please Save My Earth at the moment), and the New Red Green Show. Most<BR>
of<BR>
>these are shown nowhere else among the US PBS community, and only a few hit<BR>
>cable...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I know.  Btw, include in that Blackadder, Thin Blue Line, Chef, Keeping<BR>
up Apearances.  Of course for anime you have to include Mad Bull, Gyver,<BR>
Bubblegum Crisis, &  The Reluctant Captain.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:34:10 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Taxing energy<BR>
<BR>
Guys, you are missing the obvious ways to do it. These numbers are from<BR>
FFS2, and assumes some sort of bureaucratic government- gov type 8 or 9, and<BR>
a fair number of people.<BR>
<BR>
To start with, everybody repeat the great summary of tax policy 'Taxation is<BR>
like plucking a goose. The aim is to get the maximum number of feathers with<BR>
the minimum amount of hissing'.<BR>
<BR>
Firstly, very few civilian vehicles will use integral fusion power plants,<BR>
if just due to the cost issues involved. The minimum capacity of a fusion<BR>
power plant at TL13 is 3 MW, at TL14 0.75 MW and at TL15 0.6 MW.<BR>
<BR>
TL13 and TL14 fusion power costs KCr 67 per MW of generating capacity in<BR>
'small' plants, but this falls by 60% once the power plant scale<BR>
efficiencies cut in (which at TL13 needs a GCr 20 power facility).<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, one MW of TL13 battery power for 2 hours costs KCr 8<BR>
(batteries get 10 times more efficent from TL7 to TL11, and then roughly<BR>
double again in efficiency to TL13).<BR>
<BR>
One MW of power will run roughly a meganewton of TL12 contragrav, which way<BR>
more than most civilian vehicles need, so most civilians will probably use<BR>
much lower-powered vehicles.<BR>
<BR>
Clearly, if there is a choice between fusion and batteries, most people will<BR>
use batteries. Heck, we can encourage that by directly subsidising batteries<BR>
for use in personal vehicles (same way they give away the hardware on mobile<BR>
phones, in order to buy into a continuing revenue stream).<BR>
<BR>
This makes it pretty easy to justify red tape to discourage privately-owned<BR>
fusion power plants require careful maintainence, and annual maintainence<BR>
checks, and paperwork and so on. Also, remember that working fusion power<BR>
plants are detectable by neutrino detectors, which backs up the whole<BR>
registration issue ...<BR>
<BR>
OK, so we have the vast majority of power consumption being produced by a<BR>
relatively small number of centralised plants. We have the citizenry's<BR>
private mobility vehicles relying on this power. We have the citizenry's<BR>
homes and so on relying on the same power sources.<BR>
<BR>
Hell, those civil libertarians can be shut up by publishing the regulations<BR>
for power production facilities - and there is one clear, easy to comply<BR>
with set of rules that has to be followed by all registered power producers.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and one of the rules is the 'spike rule'. See, power production spikes<BR>
occasionally, and we need all the megawatts we can get, in order to assure<BR>
people of supply and avoid brownouts or, heaven forbid, blackouts.<BR>
Therefore, to ensure smooth power availability, we need to connect all power<BR>
production facilities to the grid, and have them inform the Power Exchange<BR>
of their status and availability. If demand goes over the 'redline' amount,<BR>
then the Power Authority has the responsibility of arranging to purchase all<BR>
available spare capacity from all power producers with that capacity for the<BR>
agreed Megawatt Hour Rate (agreed between the Power Authority and the<BR>
Producers Board - one gigawatt/hour of production capacity equals one vote<BR>
for the producers board). Of course, once demand goes under the redline<BR>
amount, then this no longer applies.<BR>
<BR>
That should cover off both ends, allowing us to extract a fair amount of<BR>
social surplus with a minimum amount of dissent... if we charge a credit a<BR>
megawatt/hour, then our GCr 20/322 000 MW powerplant (using roughly 11 m3 of<BR>
LHyd an hour) will provide a return of roughly KCr 300 an hour with some<BR>
spare capacity, or GCr 2.62 a year ... and it will cost a mere 2 credits to<BR>
fill up 2 MW hours of battery in your grav truck.<BR>
<BR>
If each citizen uses 0.5 megawatts an hour on average, then that GCr 20<BR>
fusion plant will provide power for roughly 600 000 people, and will be<BR>
paying Cr 12 a day in energy costs (or Cr 4380 a year - a third of income<BR>
for TL13 citizens).<BR>
<BR>
To put this in perspective, my natural gas supplier is charging me 1.1 cents<BR>
a megajoule, or roughly $4 a megawatt hour.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:13:21 -0800<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus <BR>
<BR>
"Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net> wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Hehehe.   Been there.  Did you ever get in a bad enough fix to have to use a<BR>
> mountain stove to heat 'rats'?  I've blown more mountain stoves up than I<BR>
> ever got to work properly. <BR>
<BR>
You need to kill the rats before you start cooking them, that<BR>
way they won't break the stove trying to escape while you're<BR>
cooking them. I'm pretty sure this is why your mountain stoves<BR>
blew up.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 05:26:10 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com<BR>
Subject: Striker III<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin :<BR>
<BR>
>Another alternative is a 101 Striker Vehicles project. Having useful designs<BR>
>on hand for a wide range of TLs would certainly make the game more<BR>
>appealing.<BR>
<BR>
Well, there's always '102 Vehicles' by the British Isles Traveller<BR>
Support group. It's a collection of designs for Traveller 4,<BR>
and is a free download in PDF format from their web site, as is<BR>
their collection of over 100 starship designs.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Simon Hibbs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:27:05 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> Not necessarily. The bigger the hole gets, the *lower* the density. A<BR>
> BH the size of the universe would be about as dense as the universe :-)<BR>
<BR>
Kind of interesting really. Consider this:<BR>
<BR>
Big Bang  <->  Large object becoming a black hole<BR>
<BR>
Universe expanding  <->  Black hole absorbing more material, growing<BR>
<BR>
Might make for an interesting way of moving Traveller PCs to an<BR>
alternative setting. Just dump them down a black hole for some reason.<BR>
The only problem is that it might be hard to leave...<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:29:34 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rupert Boleyn<BR>
> Sent: Friday, 22 September 2000 5:46 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Hindenberg Was RE: When Engineers Go Bad (was Re: Making<BR>
> Liquid Hydrogen)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> On 20 Sep 2000, at 21:07, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Sodium and potassium are both *lighter* than water. They *float*. A<BR>
> > *really* large hunk of sodium might hit the bottom. But that'd take<BR>
> > *pounds*.<BR>
><BR>
> Curious. I just checked and you're right, but I've seen bits of<BR>
> Sodium that<BR>
> were skipping across the surface of a bowl (on the little 'air<BR>
> cushion' of<BR>
> steam and flame) hit the side of the bowl and sink. Weird.<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
The surface tension of the water will also keep small pieces of metal<BR>
floating until it is disrupted.<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 05:36:15 -0400<BR>
From: "Mike Demetro" <punkabilly@sprint.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg... )<BR>
<BR>
> In my universe a Quartermaster is a rating who assists The Navigator.<BR>
Keepers<BR>
> of charts and what-not.<BR>
><BR>
Quartermaster can be a Service Branch or a Rank. I was talking about the<BR>
Service Branch.<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro, President, The Guildhall Press, Canada<BR>
www.guildhallpress.com president@guildhallpress.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 02:00:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) sez:<BR>
><BR>
>>>     Red Dwarf.  Season 7.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Hey! No spoilers. We just started season 1 here! <g><BR>
>><BR>
>>Last show had Lister getting pregnant.<BR>
><BR>
>  Alright, I've been boggled. Leonard not being familiar with Red Dwarf is... <BR>
> well, it's... er... unexpected?<BR>
><BR>
>  Red Dwarf has been part of the in-joke lexicon in my gaming circles for <BR>
> YEARS, so I tend to forget that one of our local PBS affiliates is rather <BR>
> unique. Sunday nights we get a mix of Red Dwarf, Dr. Who, Space Island One, <BR>
> anime of various sorts (Urusei Yatsura for a long time, Evangelion recently, <BR>
> and Please Save My Earth at the moment), and the New Red Green Show. Most of <BR>
> these are shown nowhere else among the US PBS community, and only a few hit <BR>
> cable...<BR>
<BR>
We used to get Dr. Who. And the local Dr. Who fanclub put in a lot of<BR>
time manning phones during pledge weeks. Then they cancelled it right<BR>
after a pledge week. The club hasn't volunteered since. And made it<BR>
very clear *why*.<BR>
<BR>
So I'm not exactly counting on them continuing to show Red Dwarf.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: The PCs encounter the Red Dwarf...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 04:53:32 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: CT Exchange Rate tables<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: RE: CT Exchange Rate tables<BR>
...<BR>
> >  Has anyone got any idea which of the three (?) versions of the <BR>
> >Exchange Rate tables in CT is authoritative?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >  We've got the one in the TRADE AND COMMERCE article in JTAS #4,<BR>
> >Striker Book: 2, and Trillion Credit Squadron's. Striker is the<BR>
> >one that deviates, in that the fall-off per TL inferiority is 0.10<BR>
> >CrImp rather 0.05 in the other two sources - i.e., TL 9 (port A)<BR>
> >money trades at CrImp (F:A) 0.40 in Striker rather than 0.70.<BR>
><BR>
>I'd say Striker is out-voted by the other two.  What are the publication<BR>
>dates for the three products?  You could argue that the latest one is<BR>
<BR>
 JTAS #4 must be the earliest; the others are both listed as `81 in my copies.<BR>
<BR>
>the most accurate.  Then again you could just pick your favorite &<BR>
>use it consistently.  It may depend on which product you use most.<BR>
<BR>
  That would be the CT approach, after all :)<BR>
<BR>
> >The CT Creed: "There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its'<BR>
> >Product"<BR>
><BR>
>How about: "There is no Game but Traveller, and Striker is its Product."<BR>
<BR>
  Waitaminit, heretic - that implies that S:2 and Striker (CT) are broadly<BR>
equivalent, which is clearly not the case.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:54:47 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: HGS v1.03 now available<BR>
<BR>
Version 1.03 of my High Guard designer is now available and all download <BR>
sites should now have the new version (Since this is just my website and <BR>
the ct-starships list file area, not too hard to do).<BR>
<BR>
This version fixes all known bugs and adds the option to charge for <BR>
hardpoints and turrets, plus it includes the option to install extra capacitors <BR>
for black globes.<BR>
<BR>
  http://www.downport.com/amv/hgs/hgs.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:06:18 -0400<BR>
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: I'll have a kinunir with salami and veshuugan, please... (was: RE: "pop")<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:00:03 -0400<BR>
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
>Subject: RE: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
>[1] kinunir - A "pocket" sandwich. Basically, it's Sylean flatbread wrapped<BR>
>around various heated meats and cheeses in the shape of a wide, flat cone.<BR>
>It's rather floppy, so eating one can be somewhat messy.<BR>
<BR>
If I'd been drinking anything when I read this, it would have been a <BR>
computer room kill. =)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:18:11 -0400<BR>
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:05:54 -0400<BR>
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
>Subject: RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
>I can see the title card now:<BR>
><BR>
>"Fiegeltoons presents: Slappy the Spacehand in 'Clobber the Mind Robbers!'"<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Ther thought of Yakko and Wakko appearing in Santanocheev's desk and <BR>
proclaiming him "Our new special friend!" and Dot leaping onto Norris and <BR>
shouting, "Helloooooo Archduke-of-Deneb nurse!" is, frankly, <BR>
terrifying.  Still, you have to wonder about how it would look if it was <BR>
those three who got the Imperial Warrant from <wherever>....<BR>
<BR>
Can you imagine what Pinky and the Brain would do with Longbow?  ("Gee, <BR>
Brain, waht'rewegonnadotonight?" "The same thing we do ever night, Pinky... <BR>
try to take over the Imperium!"  And you wondered just WHO planted the bomb <BR>
in Dulinor's gig? ZORT!)<BR>
<BR>
Though Minerva and Wilford might possibly pass as Vargr. Maybe.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 06:46:39 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: High Recoil Fun<BR>
<BR>
Not really traveller related, but I know several people on the list are gun<BR>
enthusiasts, and even those who aren't might enjoy this bit of humor.<BR>
Someone firing an elephant gun for the first time.<BR>
<BR>
This is a QuickTime movie, at around 3 meg.<BR>
<BR>
see http://www.travellercentral.com/movie.html<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:54:32 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Popeye and subs<BR>
<BR>
> Nifty! Do you happen to know the context it appeared in, a fragment of the<BR>
>  plot? Barring that, do you remember whether Popeye was wearing a white navy<BR>
>  uniform and a sailor's hat, or a red and blue shirt and a yachting cap? Or<BR>
>  did you see it before World War II (I apologize if I'm way off the mark <BR>
with<BR>
>  respect to your age on that point).<BR>
<BR>
Pre-WWII and WWII era cartoons were common afterschool fare back in the stone <BR>
age, when I was in grammar school -- IIRC this particular one involved him <BR>
piloting a convoy of war supplies (spinach, of course) across the Atlantic in <BR>
the face of U-boat attack. At one point he punches the attacking U-boat and <BR>
hits it so hard it turns into a submarine sandwich . . . but it has been <BR>
about 40 years, so my memory may be flawed.<BR>
<BR>
In any case, I am fairly sure the sub sandwich predates WWII. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:01:07 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Copies<BR>
<BR>
> what is the consensus on the ethics of getting photocopies of OOP material<BR>
>  from people?  my personal stance is that i want the copies, i wish to<BR>
>  negotiate a mutually agreeable wage for peoples' time, and i want to pay <BR>
the<BR>
>  originators' of the material either fair market price, or the price they <BR>
are<BR>
>  willing to let the material be photocopied for, or electronically<BR>
>  republished for (whichever is lower, of course...)<BR>
>  <BR>
>  What are the Traveller Community's thoughts on the matter?<BR>
<BR>
I don't know about the Traveller Community, but here are my thoughts: OOP or <BR>
not, unauthorized copies (photo- OCR, or whatever) are a violation of <BR>
copyright. Marc's views on the subject are fairly well known (and as the <BR>
holder of the IP rights to Traveller, very germane), but I'll let him <BR>
re-state them.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 07:46:40 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
<BR>
What if the Brain got hold of the warrant?<BR>
<BR>
Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?<BR>
<BR>
I think so Brain, but wouldn't saying "nice doggy" to a Vargr just<BR>
upset him?<BR>
<BR>
- --- Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:05:54 -0400<BR>
> >From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
> >Subject: RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
> <BR>
> <snip><BR>
> >I can see the title card now:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"Fiegeltoons presents: Slappy the Spacehand in 'Clobber the Mind<BR>
> Robbers!'"<BR>
> ><BR>
> >------------------------------<BR>
> <BR>
> Ther thought of Yakko and Wakko appearing in Santanocheev's desk and <BR>
> proclaiming him "Our new special friend!" and Dot leaping onto Norris<BR>
> and <BR>
> shouting, "Helloooooo Archduke-of-Deneb nurse!" is, frankly, <BR>
> terrifying.  Still, you have to wonder about how it would look if it<BR>
> was <BR>
> those three who got the Imperial Warrant from <wherever>....<BR>
> <BR>
> Can you imagine what Pinky and the Brain would do with Longbow? <BR>
> ("Gee, <BR>
> Brain, waht'rewegonnadotonight?" "The same thing we do ever night,<BR>
> Pinky... <BR>
> try to take over the Imperium!"  And you wondered just WHO planted<BR>
> the bomb <BR>
> in Dulinor's gig? ZORT!)<BR>
> <BR>
> Though Minerva and Wilford might possibly pass as Vargr. Maybe.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:20:44 +0100<BR>
From: "Neil McGurk" <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Hello all.<BR>
<BR>
Just picking on a small comment. No offence is intended by my reply. If any<BR>
is taken then please accept my apologies now.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Stephen Tempest <stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 7:33 PM<BR>
<BR>
Snip<BR>
<BR>
> Two hundred years ago, I would probably have been out working for a<BR>
> living (on a farm) at the age of 8;  married by 14;  I would be<BR>
> illiterate, I would own no property, I would be unable to vote;  I<BR>
> would think that people from the city 20 miles away were practically<BR>
> foreigners, and never have actually gone there myself;  I would enjoy<BR>
> watching animals tear each other to pieces as a leisure pursuit,<BR>
> spiced up by the occasional public hanging of a poacher or horse<BR>
> thief.  Modern Western culture may have *developed* from that of 200<BR>
> years ago, but it's not the *same* culture; and people today have<BR>
> different attitudes to people then.<BR>
<BR>
If I lived 550 years ago in England. I would expect to be working on the<BR>
family farm at 7, married by 23 (and farming my own farm), able to read but<BR>
not write, own some but not all of my farm, vote on the people within my<BR>
local community who would weld power, travelling 20 mile would get me to<BR>
market (and be done quite often) and have two or three children. I admit I<BR>
would enjoy the death and maiming of animals as a sport.<BR>
<BR>
The past may be a 'foreign country' but too many people think of the past as<BR>
an amorphous blob where people bearably survived. I have a great interest in<BR>
the<BR>
society and history of late Fifteenth Century England and in the surviving<BR>
letters I find it fascinating how similar they are to me. They laugh at<BR>
similar things, they worry about what they ride (drive to me), how<BR>
fashionable their clothes are and what people are saying about them. Common<BR>
people did not live in shit and eat mud. Please do not take this as a flame,<BR>
the point I am trying to make(probably badly) is that it is very easy to<BR>
think that the past was Hell on Earth. Life was hard but people give up and<BR>
die if it is too hard.<BR>
<BR>
Obtrav: Was the Long Night as bad as the history books show? The 3I will<BR>
obviously what to show just how much they have done for everyone since they<BR>
started running the show. 'Look how bad it was!' points out the nice man<BR>
from the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
And finally. I have no military experience what so ever except for dressing<BR>
up and pretending to be a late Fifteenth Century soldier at weekends during<BR>
the summer. I have a great deal of respect for those who have or are<BR>
servicing their nation. They allow me people like me to sleep at ease in our<BR>
beds.<BR>
<BR>
I'll go back to lurking now.<BR>
<BR>
Nellkyn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:34:06 GMT<BR>
From: "Erick ..." <siniypiva@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
  well actually, after trying to get into, and being rejected for health <BR>
reasons from the Army, Air Force, and Marines I finally decided to just <BR>
pursue a degree in history, ;) but I tried anyway..<BR>
<BR>
  erick<BR>
<BR>
Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML? I<BR>
tried to join the Reserves once, but was rejected!<BR>
Yes, I was honest, and told the good Doctor I was 'mildly' asthmatic. I<BR>
did try a second time, after friends already in the reserves told me to<BR>
'lie my a**e off.' Which I proceeded to do. Unluckily I had the same<BR>
doctor, who remebered me.... grot! Of course he still tried to help me<BR>
get in, but my regular GP wouldn't co-operate... probably just as well<BR>
anyway... my asthma worsened a couple of years later... double grot!<BR>
<BR>
Still, it's good to see the wealth of military experience here... love<BR>
the little anecdotes... even if some do go over my head!<BR>
<BR>
As a side note, my wife has commented that since she started playing<BR>
traveller, she understands what is meant by APC and LAW, TAC Missile and<BR>
other military terminology.<BR>
<BR>
Oh... and I met her at a traveller game.... she ended up marrying the<BR>
ref! <grin> Our son is only nine months, but I am already teaching him<BR>
to roll dice!<BR>
<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
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http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:37:08<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Request for graphic aid<BR>
<BR>
I'm fianlly doing the Illuminated Traveller web page.  I've done up a logo<BR>
on my crappy little graphics program, and was hoping that someone with<BR>
better gear would help me out by taking what I did and making it look nice.<BR>
<BR>
Meanwhile, back to writing up Gridlore Technologies for BITS...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:43:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Request for graphic aid<BR>
<BR>
Glad to help out.<BR>
<BR>
I work in photoshop and illustrator.  What do you need?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 10:37 AM<BR>
Subject: Request for graphic aid<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I'm fianlly doing the Illuminated Traveller web page.  I've done up a logo<BR>
> on my crappy little graphics program, and was hoping that someone with<BR>
> better gear would help me out by taking what I did and making it look<BR>
nice.<BR>
><BR>
> Meanwhile, back to writing up Gridlore Technologies for BITS...<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:45:03 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3085<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Bruce Johnson writes:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> Ahhh, then we don't really have that problem here since half that<BR>
> >> demographic is unable to drink legally here.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > And that stops them?  For that matter, you think companies won't market to<BR>
> > kids simply because those kids can't legally buy?<BR>
> <BR>
> There's a big stink right now abourt the movie industry marketing R<BR>
> rating films to the under 17 crowd. Keep in mind that it's *legal* for<BR>
> an under 17 kid to go to such a movie as long as his parents ok it. <BR>
<BR>
Ditto computer games. *sigh*<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:32:12 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: The PCs encounter the Red Dwarf...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Oh no, oh no.  I am sadistic, but not that sadistic.  Not even I would<BR>
subject them to Lister.  *weg*  A Type S Scout after a long mission smells<BR>
better.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:13:45 -0400<BR>
From: Ross Coburn <coburn@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth(was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
on 9/22/00 12:30 AM, Pronto at Pronto_r031@telus.net wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> You'd actually eat IMP omelettes?  There isn't enough tabasco in the world<BR>
> to lead me to eat those.  (Unless they've been improved in the last 10<BR>
> years.)  Turkey with gravy chunks was my fav.<BR>
<BR>
You kidding me?  Ham omelettes were the favourite with us; you pour in the<BR>
Tabasco and whatever powdered packets of (reported) nutrition might be<BR>
handy, making sure the former drowns the latter.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, I think I still have some honey and/or peanut butter in<BR>
tubes lying around somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
I was 17 at the time, which was thirteen (long) years ago, so I cannot<BR>
comment on the current state of military meals.<BR>
<BR>
Reminds me of a  valuable lesson I was taught early in (when it came to<BR>
multi-nation games, er, maneuvers): Never trade for American boots, or<BR>
British rats.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ross Coburn<BR>
coburn@sympatico.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3086<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3087</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3087<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
re:  Striker III etc (was RE: CT Exchange Rate tables)<BR>
Re: Striker question<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Copies<BR>
Early use of Gauss Guns in print<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
It just made me think of my old Traveller group...<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
Re: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
Re: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: Taxing energy<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
Scary ideas (was Re: Subsurface sandwiches)<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:13:53 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Hmmm, I didn't think we were that close to the core (only 26,000 LY in<BR>
>> this article...), and I assume that the figure they give for the Black<BR>
>> Hole (2.6 million solar masses, and a diameter of 460 Million km) are<BR>
>> for the Hole and accretion disk combined... (a sphere of 460Mkm has a<BR>
>> volume of ~190 million suns, and Black Holes are denser than stars)<BR>
><BR>
>Not necessarily. The bigger the hole gets, the *lower* the density. A<BR>
>BH the size of the universe would be about as dense as the universe :-)<BR>
<BR>
	Interesting.....very interesting.  I seem to recall hearing some<BR>
speculation on that about a decade or so ago.  It keys right in to that old<BR>
philosophical debate of "Are we just a dust mote on God's windowsill?" or<BR>
even that philosophical blockbuster "Horton Hears a Hoo."  ;o)<BR>
<BR>
	Obtrav:  While literature abounds with future religious sects that<BR>
use as their 'Text of Holy Revelation' (TM applied for) something predatory<BR>
like the writings of Charles Manson, what if some oddball sect used<BR>
something completely off-the-wall like Dr. Seuss?  <BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- ---<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:29:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re:  Striker III etc (was RE: CT Exchange Rate tables)<BR>
<BR>
>From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
<BR>
>Striker is a pretty good game, perhaps the best miniatures rules which I<BR>
have played, but it<BR>
>suffers a bit from having a design sequence which is just too complex.<BR>
Note, for example, that<BR>
>it's almost impossible to create a spreadsheet that you can use to design<BR>
vehicles. If you try<BR>
>to include even a significant fraction of the possible options, you soon<BR>
find out that its<BR>
>fairly unwieldy.<BR>
<BR>
I tend to agree.  I have developed a pretty good Excel spreadsheet for<BR>
designing TL 10 grav vehicles (which I've emailed to Luther) -- but it still<BR>
requires having Rule Book 3 and the Design Sequence Tables at hand.<BR>
<BR>
>High Guard, on the other hand, has a design system which can easily fit on<BR>
a spreadsheet. There >must be a way to streamline Striker so that it's more<BR>
understandible. In addition to a simpler<BR>
>system being more fun to use, it will also appeal to a larger audience,<BR>
which is certainly good >for Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
This was my first independent project for Lotus 1-2-3 when I took a computer<BR>
course in graduate school.  I like Striker's great attention to detail, but<BR>
agree that appeal to a wider audience would improve it.  One approach would<BR>
be to produce many designs so that players could outfit their forces "off<BR>
the shelf."<BR>
<BR>
>Some really ambitions person could even run a monthly Striker design<BR>
contest like the old<BR>
>THUDDD, except for Striker. That should certainly provide enough input for<BR>
the 101 SV project.<BR>
<BR>
That's a splendid idea.  Maybe the Mongo Ministry of Defense could test the<BR>
designs submitted.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:29:16 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Striker question<BR>
<BR>
>From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
<BR>
I had written:<BR>
>> My intention for a tandem mount (which is not provided for in the rules)<BR>
was<BR>
>> to guarantee more damage from a hit, but we in the San Jose group have<BR>
not<BR>
>> come to a conclusion about how to handle it.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian replied:<BR>
>Here's what I would say:  Instead of focusing on designing a house rule<BR>
(which has to be related<BR>
>to every new player, may or may not be accepted by all) that gives a very<BR>
slight perceived<BR>
>benefit, focus on what the rules allow that represents what you want to do.<BR>
You want more hits?<BR>
>use a light machine gun; you want more hits and more damage? use a heavy<BR>
machine gun.<BR>
<BR>
You know, my girlfriend and I were just discussing this very subject with<BR>
reference to her teen-aged daughter (doing what you want under the rules,<BR>
rather than trying to change the rules, not laser vs. MG).  I think I'll<BR>
follow Kristian's advice and change the pintel mounts to HMGs.  I might add<BR>
a laser carbine as standard equipment so that the vehicle commander can<BR>
perform target designation.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:33:02 EDT<BR>
From: WriteFool@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/22/00 1:16:27 PM Central Daylight Time, rgb@odetics.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Obtrav:  While literature abounds with future religious sects that<BR>
 use as their 'Text of Holy Revelation' (TM applied for) something predatory<BR>
 like the writings of Charles Manson, what if some oddball sect used<BR>
 something completely off-the-wall like Dr. Seuss?   >><BR>
<BR>
Perhaps:<BR>
The Church of Horton<BR>
The Temple of Sacred Duality (whose chant is one fish, two fish, red fish, <BR>
blue fish)<BR>
The Cult of the Credenza (whose sacred icon is a cat with a red & white <BR>
striped hat)<BR>
The Samiamists whose primary ritual is eating green eggs and ham<BR>
<BR>
The possiblities are endless.  <BR>
<BR>
And don't forget other ancient texts:  The Principia Discordia, the US Tax <BR>
Code, the manual for Australian Rules Football, and Mr. Boston's Deluxe <BR>
Bartenders Guide.<BR>
<BR>
Michael Breen<BR>
"No Billy, the Aslan would not like a ball of string"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:51:33 -0700<BR>
From: "fadetozero" <bempath@iserv.net><BR>
Subject: Copies<BR>
<BR>
If Marc is opposed to having OOP stuff copied, that's the final word, as far<BR>
as I'm concerned.<BR>
<BR>
jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:18:38 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Early use of Gauss Guns in print<BR>
<BR>
Dec. 1933 issue of Doc Savage Magazine, "The Phantom City"<BR>
<BR>
The villain uses an electrically powered magnetic rifle to launch torpedo <BR>
shaped steel projectiles at Doc and his crew.<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:25:38 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Neil McGurk wrote:<BR>
> Obtrav: Was the Long Night as bad as the history books show? The 3I will<BR>
> obviously what to show just how much they have done for everyone since they<BR>
> started running the show. 'Look how bad it was!' points out the nice man<BR>
> from the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
I assume that a complete lack of interstellar contact was never the<BR>
case. In areas where several self-supporting worlds are close together,<BR>
some kind of trade would probably still be conducted. However, most<BR>
worlds are rather hostile places when technology begins to fail. The<BR>
population either leaves or dies, and what's left is a *huge* ghost town<BR>
of sorts, with entire subsectors full of ruins.<BR>
<BR>
A particularly adventurous trader might travel for a month or two across<BR>
the dead lands to reach his destination, but most sane people wouldn't.<BR>
Communications begin to break down as the isolated islands of<BR>
civilization turn inwards. The remains of the Imperium are regarded with<BR>
something that more closely comes to resemble superstition. An odd<BR>
trader or two might still visit every year, speaking a gradually less<BR>
understandable Ganglic. Trade between the isolated pockets of<BR>
civilization is risky and not that profitable, since the remaining<BR>
worlds can sustain themselves anyway. Only insane and/or desperate<BR>
individuals attempt to trade under these conditions. Their numbers are<BR>
not big enough to make an economical difference.<BR>
<BR>
Founding new colonies is a costly and dangerous project. New colonies<BR>
are vulnerable, both to natural forces and to pirates (Vargr or<BR>
otherwise). Why build a home on a rockball somewhere when there is<BR>
plenty of space on this garden world (former agricultural world, mineral<BR>
poor)?<BR>
<BR>
This is my view of the Long Night. Interstellar travel never quite<BR>
vanished, but the few travellers that remained didn't make a difference.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 12:29:46 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
- --- Neil McGurk <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<I have a great deal of respect for those who have or are<BR>
servicing their nation.>><BR>
<BR>
An obvious difference in languages across the pond ...<BR>
<BR>
In the U.S., one serves one's nation.  To service the nation would make<BR>
Monica Lewinski extremely tired.<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:49:43 -0400<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: It just made me think of my old Traveller group...<BR>
<BR>
Schlock Mercenary, the mercenary group goes out to dinner...<BR>
<BR>
http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000917.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:57:18 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
On 09/20/00 at 02:30 PM,  Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>	ObTrav - just how much 'expendable' supplies do Quartermasters not<BR>
>want to have to check back into their stock...and how much of that<BR>
>gets sold instead of 'expended'?  What might a PC with the right<BR>
>connections be able to get ahold of?  Better yet:  what might the<BR>
>baddies that the PCs have to _fight_ be able to get ahold of?<BR>
<BR>
I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I say!  No Quartermaster would ever sell<BR>
government property, even "expendable supplies"...would they?  Why<BR>
that would be dishonest!  <g><BR>
<BR>
Of course, in a *game*, that might explain how the PC's occasionally<BR>
get hold of military equipment.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:13:26 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
<BR>
On 09/21/00 at 10:30 PM,  GDWGAMES@aol.com said:<BR>
<BR>
>In re "sub"<BR>
<BR>
>> My suspicion is that the term caught on during the great<BR>
>>  suburban migration / fast-food boom in post World War II America.<BR>
<BR>
>Perhaps. I think the use of "sub" as short for "submarine sandwich"<BR>
>predates  WWII, on the basis of dimly remembered references in (or<BR>
>all things) a Popeye  cartoon.<BR>
<BR>
I remember that cartoon too!  I think it was a WWII cartoon.  I seem<BR>
to remember that there as a string of ships that turned into linked<BR>
sasauges and a submarine that turned into the sandwich in question<BR>
in the mind's eye of the characters.<BR>
<BR>
Down here in the south, I've heard the long sandwiches called<BR>
hogies, po'boys, subs, heros and torpedos, but not grinders or<BR>
italians.  There's a Greek community here, and unless they are doing<BR>
it wrong, a gyro isn't a hero...different bread, different<BR>
condiments, different 'fixings.'<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:17:34 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
<BR>
Thankfully, I didn't get a single reference in the bit below.  Proof<BR>
positive that the Internet has changed my life for the better ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Jonathan McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
> Ther thought of Yakko and Wakko appearing in Santanocheev's desk and<BR>
> proclaiming him "Our new special friend!" and Dot leaping onto Norris and<BR>
> shouting, "Helloooooo Archduke-of-Deneb nurse!" is, frankly,<BR>
> terrifying.  Still, you have to wonder about how it would look if it was<BR>
> those three who got the Imperial Warrant from <wherever>....<BR>
><BR>
> Can you imagine what Pinky and the Brain would do with Longbow?  ("Gee,<BR>
> Brain, waht'rewegonnadotonight?" "The same thing we do ever night,<BR>
Pinky...<BR>
> try to take over the Imperium!"  And you wondered just WHO planted the<BR>
bomb<BR>
> in Dulinor's gig? ZORT!)<BR>
><BR>
> Though Minerva and Wilford might possibly pass as Vargr. Maybe.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:21:25 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
On 09/19/00 at 11:02 PM,  "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se> said:<BR>
<BR>
>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
>> Alcopops???  Are we talking sweet things like bottled wine<BR>
>> coolers, or beercicles?<BR>
<BR>
>Alcopops taste more or less like softdrinks, but are above 10%<BR>
>alcohol. Can you see the problem with young teenagers drinking the<BR>
>stuff? I can...<BR>
<BR>
>I would not be surprised if it is mostly a European thing.<BR>
<BR>
Then you wouldn't be surprised. I don't think our beer is 10% alcohol..is it? And you have to be 21 to legally drink any alcholoic drink.<BR>
<BR>
Just to "blow the minds" of the list's collective consciouness...I live in a "dry county."  Nothing stronger than weak beer is legally available. If you want to drink you have to drive to a neighboring county...or find a bootlegger. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:33:55 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
><BR>
> Founding new colonies is a costly and dangerous project. New colonies<BR>
> are vulnerable, both to natural forces and to pirates (Vargr or<BR>
> otherwise). Why build a home on a rockball somewhere when there is<BR>
> plenty of space on this garden world (former agricultural world, mineral<BR>
> poor)?<BR>
<BR>
If you're expanding on a metals poor world, then you're a'heading to TL2<BR>
in short order; then founding colonies won't really work...for some<BR>
reason, the oxen keep dying when they get to vaccuum .;-)<BR>
<BR>
This is one thing that has always bugged me about all the 'Long Night'<BR>
scenarios..<BR>
<BR>
If starships are so rare and few in number, then where the *@^!$$ are<BR>
the pirates getting all of theirs?? I mean _every_ scenario is 'Oh a<BR>
lone trader happens by in his creaky Far Trader every couple of years<BR>
braving the wilds and pirate-infested space'...<BR>
<BR>
Piracy (even where is IS realistic...get your finger OFF those flamer<BR>
triggers!) depends on a LARGE volume of trade: a collapsed economy<BR>
doesn't support em! <BR>
<BR>
Here on earth pirates have ONLY ever existed along rich trade routes,<BR>
this is going to be the same for interstellar travel, too.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:08:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Taxing energy<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On the other hand, one MW of TL13 battery power for 2 hours costs KCr 8<BR>
> (batteries get 10 times more efficent from TL7 to TL11, and then roughly<BR>
> double again in efficiency to TL13).<BR>
<BR>
Not so minor detail. It takes *more* than a MJ to charge a battery so<BR>
that you can *extract* 1 MJ from it. You can get out only a *third* (or<BR>
less!) of the energy you put in.<BR>
<BR>
> Oh, and one of the rules is the 'spike rule'. See, power production spikes<BR>
> occasionally, and we need all the megawatts we can get, in order to assure<BR>
> people of supply and avoid brownouts or, heaven forbid, blackouts.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the way this is handled here is  as follows:<BR>
<BR>
First, heavy users (mostly industrial) get charged a multi-tired rate<BR>
where the rate depends not just on *how much* power they use, but what<BR>
time of day they use it. <BR>
<BR>
Second, if you generate excess power, you can sell it back to the<BR>
utility. This is done by use of a special meter that tracks which way<BR>
the power is flowing. So it logs the amount you used and the amount you<BR>
supplied. And for industrial sized users/suppliers it tracks *when*<BR>
also. <BR>
<BR>
BTW, that first point is important, since as batteries get more<BR>
efficient (ie come closer to letting you extract as much energy as you<BR>
put in) it becomes viable to have a big battery bank that you charge<BR>
during "off peak" times (low power rates) and use to run your<BR>
house/factory during peak times (high rates). This sort of "load<BR>
leveling" is being done by some utilitiues by pumping water into<BR>
artificial lakes during off peak times and then running the water thru<BR>
standard hydroelectric turbines during peak times. <BR>
<BR>
> Therefore, to ensure smooth power availability, we need to connect all power<BR>
> production facilities to the grid, and have them inform the Power Exchange<BR>
> of their status and availability.<BR>
<BR>
Check into the way it's done now in various places. <BR>
<BR>
Areas up to a hundred or so miles across have the large producers (and<BR>
*users*!) keeping in constant contact so that they can adjust things<BR>
accordingly. <BR>
<BR>
For example, you *don't* take something like an aluminum smelter<BR>
facility offline without giving the power company advance notice.<BR>
Otherwise, you'll get a surge that'll fry half the equipment for miles<BR>
around. <BR>
<BR>
Likewise you don't add a major drain or a new generator without having<BR>
folks on the load management boards watching the meters like hawks.<BR>
(I'm told some place have meters marked in kA and MV!)<BR>
<BR>
Regions (states/provinces, European countries :-) have tielines between<BR>
them for shipping excess capacity around. But there are limits, as the<BR>
farther you send the power the less gets there due to line losses. And<BR>
that won't change until we get room temp superconductors.<BR>
<BR>
> If demand goes over the 'redline' amount, then the Power Authority<BR>
> has the responsibility of arranging to purchase all available spare<BR>
> capacity from all power producers with that capacity for the agreed<BR>
> Megawatt Hour Rate (agreed between the Power Authority and the<BR>
> Producers Board - one gigawatt/hour of production capacity equals one<BR>
> vote for the producers board). Of course, once demand goes under the<BR>
> redline amount, then this no longer applies.<BR>
<BR>
Real world: The companies and regions that are interconnected have<BR>
agreements (ranging fron contracts to treaties) governing how much<BR>
power they can supply to the others in an emergency and what they'll be<BR>
paid for it. And they will *never* supply power that cuts into the<BR>
"baseload". They'll only sell "excess" capacity. <BR>
<BR>
That's why you get brownouts during the winter in places that use<BR>
electric heat, and in the summer in places with major amounts of air<BR>
conditioning. Because there's nobody *to* borrow the power from (it's<BR>
not practical to ship that much power from Canada to the American<BR>
Southwest, for example)<BR>
<BR>
> That should cover off both ends, allowing us to extract a fair amount of<BR>
> social surplus with a minimum amount of dissent... if we charge a credit a<BR>
> megawatt/hour, then our GCr 20/322 000 MW powerplant (using roughly 11 m3 of<BR>
<BR>
That's 322 GW.<BR>
<BR>
> LHyd an hour) will provide a return of roughly KCr 300 an hour with some<BR>
> spare capacity, or GCr 2.62 a year ... and it will cost a mere 2 credits to<BR>
> fill up 2 MW hours of battery in your grav truck.<BR>
<BR>
See my comment about battery efficiency above.<BR>
<BR>
> If each citizen uses 0.5 megawatts an hour on average,<BR>
<BR>
You mean "0.5 MJ/hr" or "0.5 MW". Watts *is* a "per time" measure.<BR>
<BR>
> then that GCr 20<BR>
> fusion plant will provide power for roughly 600 000 people, and will be<BR>
> paying Cr 12 a day in energy costs (or Cr 4380 a year - a third of income<BR>
> for TL13 citizens).<BR>
<BR>
Data point. A standard household "service drop" is wired for 220/240 at<BR>
200 amps. That's 48 kW *max*. And it's unlikely to get close to<BR>
capacity except in really unusual circumstances. And I don't mean<BR>
heating/air conditioning load. I mean something like the homeowner<BR>
having *major* equipment on premises. <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, this makes max usage 0.048 MW. And average usage a lot less than<BR>
that. So your power plant will supply 6.7 *million* people at max load. <BR>
And it's going to be supplying a *lot* more than that. <BR>
<BR>
I use a fair amount of power (all these computers :-). And I used 801<BR>
kW-hr last month. That's a bit over 1 kW average. Muliply that by 10 to<BR>
allow for folks with stuff like air conditioners and electric heat. <BR>
<BR>
That means your plant will supply power to 32.2 million *homes*. <BR>
<BR>
And that sounds about right. Most current power plants are rated in<BR>
*megawatts*, with the really big ones being several gigawatts. <BR>
<BR>
I suggest figuring on a *much* smaller plant. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> To put this in perspective, my natural gas supplier is charging me 1.1 cents<BR>
> a megajoule, or roughly $4 a megawatt hour.<BR>
<BR>
And I'm paying $0.05682 (yes they carry it out to that many places) a<BR>
kW-hr for electricity. Plus a $0.015 city tax and a $0.033 county tax.<BR>
Which works out to $104.82 per MW-hr.<BR>
<BR>
And this is a *low* rate compared with most places. <BR>
<BR>
Fusion power and good batteries will make it seem ridiculously high<BR>
though.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:54:28 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
>>ObTrav: The PCs encounter the Red Dwarf...<BR>
><BR>
>     Oh no, oh no.  I am sadistic, but not that sadistic.  Not even I would<BR>
> subject them to Lister.  *weg*  A Type S Scout after a long mission smells<BR>
> better.<BR>
<BR>
Lister's not a problem. Rimmer, on the other hand....<BR>
<BR>
ps. both Red Dwarf and Star Trek had ther same problem. Big ship, way<BR>
too many crew who would be "in the way" in a lot of plots. ST kept<BR>
coming up with reasons to take the story off the ship, or remove most<BR>
of the crew temporarily. <BR>
<BR>
Rewd Dwarf just killed them all off in the first episode. :-)<BR>
<BR>
pps. and in the "silly 'mascot'" character contest "Cat" wins over<BR>
Wesley. No contest. :-)<BR>
 <BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:25:25 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
On 09/22/00 at 01:33 PM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> said:<BR>
<BR>
>This is one thing that has always bugged me about all the 'Long<BR>
>Night' scenarios..<BR>
<BR>
>If starships are so rare and few in number, then where the *@^!$$<BR>
>are the pirates getting all of theirs?? I mean _every_ scenario is<BR>
>'Oh a lone trader happens by in his creaky Far Trader every couple<BR>
>of years braving the wilds and pirate-infested space'...<BR>
<BR>
>Piracy (even where is IS realistic...get your finger OFF those<BR>
>flamer triggers!) depends on a LARGE volume of trade: a collapsed<BR>
>economy doesn't support em! <BR>
<BR>
>Here on earth pirates have ONLY ever existed along rich trade<BR>
>routes, this is going to be the same for interstellar travel, too.<BR>
<BR>
My view of "The Long Night" is that it was a period where there was<BR>
no unified multi-sector interstellar civilization or government.<BR>
In my view, there's no reason to think there weren't thousands of<BR>
starfaring systems and small, sub-sector sized, polities right<BR>
though the Long Night.  This should be a fun setting for<BR>
roleplaying. <BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:32:25 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Highly jealous here. My local PBS station doesn't even carry Dr. Who<BR>
anymore, haven't for over a decade.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 12:44 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) sez:<BR>
<BR>
>>     Red Dwarf.  Season 7.<BR>
><BR>
>Hey! No spoilers. We just started season 1 here! <g><BR>
><BR>
>Last show had Lister getting pregnant.<BR>
<BR>
 Alright, I've been boggled. Leonard not being familiar with Red Dwarf is...<BR>
well, it's... er... unexpected?<BR>
<BR>
 Red Dwarf has been part of the in-joke lexicon in my gaming circles for<BR>
YEARS, so I tend to forget that one of our local PBS affiliates is rather<BR>
unique. Sunday nights we get a mix of Red Dwarf, Dr. Who, Space Island One,<BR>
anime of various sorts (Urusei Yatsura for a long time, Evangelion recently,<BR>
and Please Save My Earth at the moment), and the New Red Green Show. Most of<BR>
these are shown nowhere else among the US PBS community, and only a few hit<BR>
cable...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:27:21 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
<BR>
Erick ... wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>   well actually, after trying to get into, and being rejected for health<BR>
> reasons from the Army, Air Force, and Marines I finally decided to just<BR>
> pursue a degree in history, ;) but I tried anyway..<BR>
<BR>
I actually had a student once who told me that he decided to go to college<BR>
since his test scores (ASVAB?) were too low to get him into the military! I<BR>
don't recall what his major was. I have to wonder if things have changed<BR>
any.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:00:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Scary ideas (was Re: Subsurface sandwiches)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> What if the Brain got hold of the warrant?<BR>
><BR>
> Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?<BR>
><BR>
> I think so Brain, but wouldn't saying "nice doggy" to a Vargr just<BR>
> upset him?<BR>
<BR>
Just keep in mind that at Imperial TLs "Brain" becomes a lot more SF,<BR>
and a lot less "Fantasy". <BR>
<BR>
Then again, maybe he's related to the white mice from Hitchiker's...<BR>
<BR>
"Pinky, if I can steal this weapon from Famile Spofulams labs, I can<BR>
rule the world!"<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm. There's a thought. A world where Brain has succeeded...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:13:59 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> Not necessarily. The bigger the hole gets, the *lower* the density. A<BR>
>> BH the size of the universe would be about as dense as the universe :-)<BR>
><BR>
> Kind of interesting really. Consider this:<BR>
><BR>
> Big Bang  <->  Large object becoming a black hole<BR>
><BR>
> Universe expanding  <->  Black hole absorbing more material, growing<BR>
><BR>
> Might make for an interesting way of moving Traveller PCs to an<BR>
> alternative setting. Just dump them down a black hole for some reason.<BR>
> The only problem is that it might be hard to leave...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, for a black hole of less than *galactic* mass, the problem is<BR>
avoiding being ripped to shreds by the tidal forces on the way in. <BR>
<BR>
Getting out is easy. After all, Jump drive is FTL... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3087<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3088</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/22/00 6:14:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 22 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3088<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
RE: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
The Long Night<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth(was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
RE: Striker III<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3087<BR>
Re: Copies<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
silly mascots<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg... )<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: Early use of Gauss Guns in print<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
RE: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
Re: Request for graphic aid<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:16:11 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         Obtrav:  While literature abounds with future religious sects that<BR>
> use as their 'Text of Holy Revelation' (TM applied for) something predatory<BR>
> like the writings of Charles Manson, what if some oddball sect used<BR>
> something completely off-the-wall like Dr. Seuss?  <BR>
<BR>
Well, there's an *old* SF short about the culture that develops after a<BR>
nuclear war "destroys civilization". The folks who put things back<BR>
togother had printing equipment, were used to running organizations<BR>
made up of individualists, and to thinking out off the wall solutions<BR>
to problems. <BR>
<BR>
Yep. Fandom ruled the world! :-)<BR>
<BR>
And they (officially) treated a lot of the stories as being true. They<BR>
ascribed E=MC^2 to Heinlein, not Einstein.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:46:59 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, for a black hole of less than *galactic* mass, the problem is<BR>
> avoiding being ripped to shreds by the tidal forces on the way in. <BR>
<BR>
Well, plus the time dilation so you don't actually reach the event horizon in finite (external) time.<BR>
> <BR>
> Getting out is easy. After all, Jump drive is FTL... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Well, since it takes infinite time to get in....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:47:07 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> Well, there's an *old* SF short about the culture that develops after a<BR>
> nuclear war "destroys civilization". The folks who put things back<BR>
> togother had printing equipment, were used to running organizations<BR>
> made up of individualists, and to thinking out off the wall solutions<BR>
> to problems.<BR>
<BR>
There is a Swedish RPG called "Mutant" with a post-apocalyptic setting.<BR>
The emperor of the largest of the empires was named by his father after<BR>
a historical person that he read about in an ancient tome.<BR>
<BR>
The name? Palpadine...<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:40:20 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, for a black hole of less than *galactic* mass, the problem is<BR>
> avoiding being ripped to shreds by the tidal forces on the way in. <BR>
> <BR>
> Getting out is easy. After all, Jump drive is FTL... :-)<BR>
<BR>
The real trick is getting to that safe jump distance. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:49:44 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> Actually, for a black hole of less than *galactic* mass, the problem is<BR>
> avoiding being ripped to shreds by the tidal forces on the way in.<BR>
<BR>
There exists a theory about some kind of doughnut-shaped black holes<BR>
where it would be possible to reach the singularity in a less violent<BR>
manner. At least the theory was not discarded in the 80ies, when the<BR>
book on my shelf was written  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
> Getting out is easy. After all, Jump drive is FTL... :-)<BR>
<BR>
But the adventurers need to get out through the same "hole," since doing<BR>
otherwise would rip the ship apart. Therefore, they have to quest to<BR>
find their original entry point...<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:51:48 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: The Long Night<BR>
<BR>
I was thinking about the Vilani and it occurred to me that they<BR>
might have only colonized a few worlds throughout the vast area of<BR>
the First Imperium.  They strike me as the sort that wouldn't be<BR>
crazy about colonizing every hellhole, rockball and iceworld out<BR>
there, just the worlds that are gardens...or at least fairly easy to<BR>
colonize.  The would want mostly want to control trade with the<BR>
minor races and thier worlds, so their navy wouldn't have been<BR>
organized to fight large pitched battles.<BR>
<BR>
If that's the case, then their empire was something of a shell that<BR>
succeeded for so long mostly because they tightly controlled<BR>
technology, especially jump technology, and kept their subjects on a<BR>
short leash.  When the terrans broke through the Vilani's forward<BR>
defenses they would have been able to sweep through with little or<BR>
no opposition. <BR>
<BR>
After "winning", I think the Terrans would have concentrated on the<BR>
colonized Vilani and minor race worlds.  Yes, they would have<BR>
started to explore, but just consolodating would have occupied most<BR>
of their time and energy.  <BR>
<BR>
In the end, the Terrans couldn't maintain the controls of the Vilani<BR>
and so their Second Imperium came apart, but the collapse wasn't at<BR>
all complete.  There would have been hundreds of fairly high tech<BR>
former Vilani colony and minor race worlds out there most of which<BR>
could have maintained their starfaring capability.<BR>
<BR>
If this is the case, The Long Night could be a *very* interesting<BR>
period of expansion and exploration.  Dozens of small states would<BR>
have the opportunity to expand out from their worlds into the,<BR>
almost uninhabited areas, surrounding them.  Scouts and adventurous<BR>
merchants would travel throughout sectors mixing with scouts and<BR>
merchants from many other small starfaring states.  Ethically<BR>
challenged merchants would have ample opportunity "meet and greet"<BR>
other merchants and travellers travelling through regions where<BR>
there was no strong policing powers.  Then when the small states<BR>
bump into each other you have the possibility for diplomatic and<BR>
military campaigns on a small scale where PC's can make a<BR>
difference.<BR>
<BR>
There is, I think, 1700 years of history to be discovered in The<BR>
Long Night.  Only how it starts and how it ends are really known to<BR>
us.  What a marvelous playground the middle would be!!!<BR>
<BR>
What do you think?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:53:36 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> If you're expanding on a metals poor world, then you're a'heading to TL2<BR>
> in short order; then founding colonies won't really work...for some<BR>
> reason, the oxen keep dying when they get to vaccuum .;-)<BR>
<BR>
My point exactly. Technology begins to break down as a result of people<BR>
content with living in their garden paradise.<BR>
<BR>
> If starships are so rare and few in number, then where the *@^!$$ are<BR>
> the pirates getting all of theirs?? I mean _every_ scenario is 'Oh a<BR>
> lone trader happens by in his creaky Far Trader every couple of years<BR>
> braving the wilds and pirate-infested space'...<BR>
<BR>
The pirates I visualize in my version of the Long Night are mostly Vargr<BR>
scroungers, searching the ruins for valuable technology. Vargr will<BR>
probably not think twice before they challenge other ships in "their"<BR>
territory...<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:55:56 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Eris the infamous Heretic wrote:<BR>
> My view of "The Long Night" is that it was a period where there was<BR>
> no unified multi-sector interstellar civilization or government.<BR>
> In my view, there's no reason to think there weren't thousands of<BR>
> starfaring systems and small, sub-sector sized, polities right<BR>
> though the Long Night.  This should be a fun setting for<BR>
> roleplaying.<BR>
<BR>
"Well, we need to travel to the empire next to the small rift behind the<BR>
empire spinward of the empire that..."<BR>
<BR>
Yes, very interesting indeed. It would be nice to run a simulation of<BR>
such a setting, letting empires be founded and perish continuosly. I<BR>
might just have to do that after I have finished my other private<BR>
projects (and, perhaps, my studies).<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:54:25 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
On 09/22/00 at 11:27 AM,  "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> Not necessarily. The bigger the hole gets, the *lower* the density. A<BR>
>> BH the size of the universe would be about as dense as the universe :-)<BR>
<BR>
>Kind of interesting really. Consider this:<BR>
<BR>
>Big Bang  <->  Large object becoming a black hole<BR>
<BR>
>Universe expanding  <->  Black hole absorbing more material,<BR>
>growing<BR>
<BR>
>Might make for an interesting way of moving Traveller PCs to an<BR>
>alternative setting. Just dump them down a black hole for some<BR>
>reason. The only problem is that it might be hard to leave...<BR>
<BR>
Even though, they probably don't *really* exist, they can come back through a white hole.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:21:28 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth(was:Hindenberg.. . )<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> You kidding me?  Ham omelettes were the favourite with us; you pour in the<BR>
> Tabasco and whatever powdered packets of (reported) nutrition might be<BR>
> handy, making sure the former drowns the latter.<BR>
><BR>
> On the other hand, I think I still have some honey and/or peanut butter in<BR>
> tubes lying around somewhere.<BR>
><BR>
> I was 17 at the time, which was thirteen (long) years ago, so I cannot<BR>
> comment on the current state of military meals.<BR>
<BR>
I used to buy "in flight meal packs" (USAF equivalent of C-rats) all<BR>
the time. My Boy Scout patrol used them as the Friday night meal on<BR>
camping trips. We were generally too busy setting up camp to deal with<BR>
doing anything complicated for food. <BR>
<BR>
We'd build a fire, put on a big kettle of water and toss the main<BR>
course cans in. They'd boil away while we set up the tents. Then we'd<BR>
sit down, fish them out of the water, open them up and eat. <BR>
<BR>
And the "accesories packs" were useful for trading (I didn't drink<BR>
coffee so I had lots of instant coffe and creamer packs to trade).<BR>
<BR>
I've also had a few MREs in more recent years. They're ok. <BR>
<BR>
Neither C-rats nor MREs are gourmet food. On the other hand, I trust<BR>
them more than I trust the average "fast food" restuarant. <eg><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:28:29 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker III<BR>
<BR>
Simon Hibbs wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, there's always '102 Vehicles' by the British Isles Traveller<BR>
> Support group. It's a collection of designs for Traveller 4,<BR>
> and is a free download in PDF format from their web site, as is<BR>
> their collection of over 100 starship designs.<BR>
<BR>
But it's not useful at all for Striker. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:00:53 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3087<BR>
<BR>
Eris wrote:<BR>
> Just to "blow the minds" of the list's collective consciouness...I live in a "dry county."  Nothing stronger than weak beer is legally available.<BR>
> If you want to drink you have to drive to a neighboring county...or find a bootlegger. <g><BR>
<BR>
That's nothing; the Jack Daniels distillery is in a dry county. When I toured <BR>
it last summer, the guide (who had quite a polished routine) mentioned that <BR>
from the distillery, the nearest place you can legally buy JD is "12 miles, <BR>
thirty-seven yards, and ten steps" away. <BR>
<BR>
You can't sample the stuff there, but the guide took great pleasure in <BR>
pointing out that "the gummint can't tax the fumes!" and flapped the lid of <BR>
one of the filtering vats[1] into the faces of the tourists, which was pretty<BR>
impressive.<BR>
<BR>
He also pointed out that if one of the warehouse buildings did catch fire, <BR>
they could count on a huge force of volunteers to set up a bucket brigade <BR>
- -- with full buckets coming _out_.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
[1] About 10 feet diameter, 20 feet deep, packed full of charcoal (burned on<BR>
the distillery site), with freshly distilled booze, cask strength (60% or <BR>
120 proof, or maybe even stronger, I don't recall) being dripped into the <BR>
top and collected at the bottom. In principle, this removes some of the <BR>
nastier higher alcohols that come out of the still, which are then replaced<BR>
by the carcinogens that leach out of the scorched interior of the casks <BR>
they age the stuff in. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:12:13 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Copies<BR>
<BR>
> If Marc is opposed to having OOP stuff copied, that's the final word, as far<BR>
>  as I'm concerned.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  jim<BR>
<BR>
He is not necessarily -- he has just established certain criteria you have to <BR>
meet. Ask him . . .<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:46:01 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
> From: Bruce Johnson <BR>
> If starships are so rare and few in number, then where the *@^!$$ are<BR>
> the pirates getting all of theirs?? <BR>
<BR>
Famille Spofulam.<BR>
<BR>
> I mean _every_ scenario is 'Oh a<BR>
> lone trader happens by in his creaky Far Trader every couple of years<BR>
> braving the wilds and pirate-infested space'...<BR>
<BR>
No, it's:  a lone pirate happens by in his creaky Far Trader every couple<BR>
of years to get rid of his loot and repair his ship after braving the wilds<BR>
and pirate-infested space.  <BR>
<BR>
Traders and pirates are interchangeable at a certain point.  Why buy what<BR>
you can steal or scavenge?  And raiding "outsiders" is not a crime.<BR>
<BR>
I think there is some stuff about this in Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales".  I<BR>
vaguely recall him describing a ship captain of rather flexible morals.<BR>
<BR>
> Piracy (even where is IS realistic...get your finger OFF those flamer<BR>
> triggers!) depends on a LARGE volume of trade: a collapsed economy<BR>
> doesn't support em! <BR>
<BR>
A large volume of trade or weak planetary defences!<BR>
<BR>
> Here on earth pirates have ONLY ever existed along rich trade routes,<BR>
> this is going to be the same for interstellar travel, too.<BR>
<BR>
Pirates aren't necessarily solely dependent on piracy for their survival. <BR>
They may well be the _only_ ships operating in an area.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:39:46 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: silly mascots<BR>
<BR>
>pps. and in the "silly 'mascot'" character contest "Cat" wins over<BR>
>Wesley. No contest. :-)<BR>
<BR>
ya, but Wesley was more annoying.<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
           You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication<BR>
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:49:39 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > From: Bruce Johnson<BR>
> > If starships are so rare and few in number, then where the *@^!$$ are<BR>
> > the pirates getting all of theirs??<BR>
> <BR>
> Famille Spofulam.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, that's it, I surrender. "Lord protect us from the fury of the<BR>
norsme^h^h^h^h Famille. Amen"<BR>
<BR>
> A large volume of trade or weak planetary defences!<BR>
> <BR>
> > Here on earth pirates have ONLY ever existed along rich trade routes,<BR>
> > this is going to be the same for interstellar travel, too.<BR>
> <BR>
> Pirates aren't necessarily solely dependent on piracy for their survival.<BR>
> They may well be the _only_ ships operating in an area.<BR>
<BR>
Just to be pedantic, at that point, they're no longer pirates in the<BR>
commonly accepted sence, but either raiders (if they're dumb) or the<BR>
government (if they're smart).<BR>
<BR>
Point taken though. Still if shps are so incredibly rare, risking yours<BR>
to take another one is going to be a VERY dicey move. When a critical<BR>
hit can strand you forever in the system you're in, you're going to be<BR>
really careful with your ship.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:53:39 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
> ><BR>
> >>ObTrav: The PCs encounter the Red Dwarf...<BR>
> ><BR>
> >     Oh no, oh no.  I am sadistic, but not that sadistic.  Not even I would<BR>
> > subject them to Lister.  *weg*  A Type S Scout after a long mission smells<BR>
> > better.<BR>
> <BR>
> Lister's not a problem. Rimmer, on the other hand....<BR>
<BR>
Yah, but Rimmer (at least until the later seasons) was an insubstantial<BR>
hologram.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> ps. both Red Dwarf and Star Trek had ther same problem. Big ship, way<BR>
> too many crew who would be "in the way" in a lot of plots. ST kept<BR>
> coming up with reasons to take the story off the ship, or remove most<BR>
> of the crew temporarily.<BR>
> <BR>
> Rewd Dwarf just killed them all off in the first episode. :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> pps. and in the "silly 'mascot'" character contest "Cat" wins over<BR>
> Wesley. No contest. :-)<BR>
<BR>
My all-time favorite scene with Cat in it is him prancing through the<BR>
ship, aerosol can in hand, spraying things: "Mine, mine, mine, that's<BR>
mine, and that's mine, mine, mine, mine, oh, yes, mine!"<BR>
<BR>
Next to all-time favorite: "I'm Dwayne Dibley!!!???"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:56:40 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OPFOR in the 3I (was: Re: Naming Patterns)<BR>
<BR>
Regarding opposition forces does anyone out there remember the "Circle<BR>
Trigons"  I seem to remember having some stuff about them as the Army's<BR>
"official opposition force".  Their symbol/unit patch, what have you,  was a<BR>
circle with a triangle in it.  Don't remember much else as it was back when<BR>
I was an ROTC cadet, i.e. a very very long time ago.<BR>
<BR>
Captain Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:57:27 -0700<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Surplus (was:Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth (was: Hindenberg... )<BR>
<BR>
Mike Demetro wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > In my universe a Quartermaster is a rating who assists The Navigator.<BR>
> Keepers<BR>
> > of charts and what-not.<BR>
> ><BR>
> Quartermaster can be a Service Branch or a Rank. I was talking about the<BR>
> Service Branch.<BR>
<BR>
So was I... Qm3... Qm2.... Qm1.... Cheif Quartermaster.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
When Spring comes back with rustling shade,<BR>
And apple blossoms fills the air,<BR>
I have a rendezvous with Death,<BR>
When spring brings back blue days and fair.<BR>
 Legionnaire Alan Seeger, KIA the Somme.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:15:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> --- Neil McGurk <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> <<I have a great deal of respect for those who have or are<BR>
> servicing their nation.>><BR>
><BR>
> An obvious difference in languages across the pond ...<BR>
><BR>
> In the U.S., one serves one's nation.  To service the nation would make<BR>
> Monica Lewinski extremely tired.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, most Congressmen and Senators do it as a matter of<BR>
course.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:23:11 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> Actually, for a black hole of less than *galactic* mass, the problem is<BR>
>> avoiding being ripped to shreds by the tidal forces on the way in. <BR>
><BR>
> Well, plus the time dilation so you don't actually reach the event horizon <BR>
> in finite (external) time.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Getting out is easy. After all, Jump drive is FTL... :-)<BR>
><BR>
> Well, since it takes infinite time to get in....<BR>
<BR>
Unless it suck you in out of jump?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:24:00 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> Actually, for a black hole of less than *galactic* mass, the problem is<BR>
>> avoiding being ripped to shreds by the tidal forces on the way in.<BR>
><BR>
> There exists a theory about some kind of doughnut-shaped black holes<BR>
> where it would be possible to reach the singularity in a less violent<BR>
> manner. At least the theory was not discarded in the 80ies, when the<BR>
> book on my shelf was written  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Kerr-Newman black hole. Rotating and charged, as I recall.<BR>
<BR>
Alas, charged black holes won't *stay* chareged. The Hawking radiation<BR>
will preferentially emit particles of the same charge until the BH is<BR>
neutral. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:27:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Early use of Gauss Guns in print<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Dec. 1933 issue of Doc Savage Magazine, "The Phantom City"<BR>
><BR>
> The villain uses an electrically powered magnetic rifle to launch torpedo <BR>
> shaped steel projectiles at Doc and his crew.<BR>
<BR>
An old John W. Campbell story of similar vintage has someone invent<BR>
what we'd now call a "carbon-air fuell cell". Of course, the wicked<BR>
power companies are out to supress it. <BR>
<BR>
At one point he creates a magnetic machinegun. Basicly a bunch of coils<BR>
wrapped around a barrel, with internal contacts to switch between them<BR>
as the projectiles (basicly headless nails) went thru. <BR>
<BR>
They put it in an airplane and inadvertently cut the bad guys plane in<BR>
half. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:32:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 09/19/00 at 11:02 PM,  "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <BR>
> <jenry023@student.liu.se> said:<BR>
><BR>
>>sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
>>> Alcopops???  Are we talking sweet things like bottled wine<BR>
>>> coolers, or beercicles?<BR>
><BR>
>>Alcopops taste more or less like softdrinks, but are above 10%<BR>
>>alcohol. Can you see the problem with young teenagers drinking the<BR>
>>stuff? I can...<BR>
><BR>
>>I would not be surprised if it is mostly a European thing.<BR>
><BR>
> Then you wouldn't be surprised. I don't think our beer is 10% alcohol..is <BR>
> it? And you have to be 21 to legally drink any alcholoic drink.<BR>
<BR>
Most US beer is 3.2% (or is it 6.2%). Stuff like O'Douls is "less than<BR>
0.5%" (aka "near beer")<BR>
<BR>
> Just to "blow the minds" of the list's collective consciouness...I live in a <BR>
> "dry county."  Nothing stronger than weak beer is legally available. If you <BR>
> want to drink you have to drive to a neighboring county...or find a <BR>
> bootlegger. <g><BR>
<BR>
Or brew your own. Which isn't at all hard to do.<BR>
<BR>
And BTW, I live in a dry *building*. The lease specifies *no* alcohol<BR>
on premises. Or at least they think it does. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:06:50<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
<BR>
At 02:27 PM 9/22/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I actually had a student once who told me that he decided to go to college<BR>
>since his test scores (ASVAB?) were too low to get him into the military! I<BR>
>don't recall what his major was. I have to wonder if things have changed<BR>
>any.<BR>
<BR>
You'd be surprised how many smart people end up in combat arms.  My<BR>
recruiter expalined it to me this way.  The kids who are looking for job<BR>
skills are generally the ones who aren't that good at school, and want to<BR>
learn a marketable skill.  The ones who could get into college, but join<BR>
the military, are generally more interested in an adventure, and combat<BR>
arms fits the bill.<BR>
<BR>
My OSUT class had a couple of college droup-outs, and most everybody was at<BR>
the very least bright.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Embrace Fascism.    The uniforms look cool<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:08:03<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Request for graphic aid<BR>
<BR>
At 10:43 AM 9/22/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>Glad to help out.<BR>
><BR>
>I work in photoshop and illustrator.  What do you need?<BR>
<BR>
I'll mail you my basic illustration, I just want it to look better.. <BR>
<BR>
More info will accompany the .gif.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3088<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3089</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/23/00 5:24:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 23 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3089<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Striker multi-barrel weapons<BR>
Re: Scary ideas (was Re: Subsurface sandwiches)<BR>
Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
Re: Taxing energy<BR>
Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
Re: Scary ideas (was Re: Subsurface sandwiches)<BR>
RE: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: Striker multi-barrel weapons<BR>
Old Dragon Magazines For Sale<BR>
RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Scary ideas (was Re: Subsurface sandwiches)<BR>
Re: Taxing energy<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3087<BR>
Re: The Long Night<BR>
Re: Scary ideas (was Re: Subsurface sandwiches)<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:55:09 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker multi-barrel weapons<BR>
<BR>
The best way to handle multi barrel weapons in Striker is to give them<BR>
a hit bonus like autofire.  Remember that each doubling of the ROF <BR>
increases the hit bonus by +1.  You can use the pulse laser hit bonus<BR>
table to make it easy:<BR>
<BR>
2-3 barrels = 2 or 3 x ROF = +1 over single weapon ROF bonus (if any)<BR>
4-7 barrels = 4 to 7 x ROF = +2<BR>
8-15 barrels = 8 to 15 x ROF = + 3<BR>
etc.<BR>
<BR>
So if weapon ROF is 10, a 15 barrelled version spits out 150 shots/phase<BR>
for a +3 DM (16 barrels would have give +4).<BR>
<BR>
A 15 barrelled version of a ROF 20 weapon (+2 DM) has a DM of +5 (300<BR>
rounds/phase).<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick <never thought of a twin laser rifle pintle mount><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 10:13:06 +0800<BR>
From: Nattrass <wulfren@opera.iinet.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Scary ideas (was Re: Subsurface sandwiches)<BR>
<BR>
>Hmmm. There's a thought. A world where Brain has succeeded...<BR>
<BR>
a scary thought, but it'd only be temporary... it always is with brain, <BR>
after all there is snowball to worry about!<BR>
<BR>
"Pinky are you pondering what I'm pondering?"<BR>
"I fink so bwain, but pantyhose tend to chaff in the summer"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:39:54 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
> Most US beer is 3.2% (or is it 6.2%). Stuff like O'Douls is "less than<BR>
> 0.5%" (aka "near beer")<BR>
<BR>
I think most US beers are in the 5-7% range. Unfortunately, the two brands <BR>
of beer I have handy to check right now don't specify; there must be some <BR>
law discouraging display of percentages for people optimizing for maximum <BR>
alcohol intake.<BR>
<BR>
I think 3.2% is what you get in Utah, where there's a lot of hoops to jump <BR>
through to get your booze. Like, "clubs" can serve hard liquor to "members",<BR>
so restaurants charge a nominal cover charge for "membership". When they <BR>
serve it to you, they have to carefully measure out the allotted ounce per <BR>
drink. Order a pitcher of margaritas for the table, and make sure your <BR>
teetotaler/designated driver friend claims he's having some, so you can get <BR>
that one extra ounce.<BR>
<BR>
There's some weird convolution about the Utah liquor laws, I forget what it <BR>
is, that actually encourages you to drink harder stuff once you're drinking <BR>
hard stuff -- something like a total volume limit that tends to crowd out <BR>
the non-alcoholic mixers. I forget the details. <BR>
<BR>
Wines typically run about 10-15%, IIRC, and normal winemaking processes can't <BR>
get much higher than that. <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:19:43 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Taxing energy<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
> > If each citizen uses 0.5 megawatts an hour on average,<BR>
> <BR>
> You mean "0.5 MJ/hr" or "0.5 MW". Watts *is* a "per time" measure.<BR>
 <BR>
<snip> <BR>
<BR>
> I use a fair amount of power (all these computers :-). And I used 801<BR>
> kW-hr last month. That's a bit over 1 kW average. Muliply that by 10 to<BR>
> allow for folks with stuff like air conditioners and electric heat. <BR>
<BR>
Maybe he meant MW/hr in the same way you were using kW/hr...<BR>
<BR>
i.e. 0.5MJ x 3600, or 1.8 GJ!<BR>
<BR>
I agree that his figures are a tad high though <g><BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:59:19 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Russell Bornschlegel" <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 3:39 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
> > Most US beer is 3.2% (or is it 6.2%). Stuff like O'Douls is "less than<BR>
> > 0.5%" (aka "near beer")<BR>
><BR>
> I think most US beers are in the 5-7% range. Unfortunately, the two brands<BR>
> of beer I have handy to check right now don't specify; there must be some<BR>
> law discouraging display of percentages for people optimizing for maximum<BR>
> alcohol intake.<BR>
<BR>
5-7% is pretty high for beer. Most beers in the UK are in the 3-5% range<BR>
(Unless you get the 'super' or 'special' strength canned beers favoured by<BR>
alkies and students at parties, which are in the 7-9% range).<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:03:04 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Scary ideas (was Re: Subsurface sandwiches)<BR>
<BR>
Nattrass wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Hmmm. There's a thought. A world where Brain has succeeded...<BR>
> <BR>
> a scary thought, but it'd only be temporary... it always is with brain,<BR>
> after all there is snowball to worry about!<BR>
<BR>
Not since Roddy McDowell died a while back.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, what would be _wrong_ in a world in which Brain succeeded? <BR>
After all, didn't Brain teach us (music begins):<BR>
<BR>
To scheme the improbable scheme<BR>
To plan the unthinkable plan<BR>
To build when your arms are too tiny<BR>
To walk in the suit of a man<BR>
<BR>
This is my fate<BR>
To conquer the Earth<BR>
To play with the big boys<BR>
Though I lack the girth<BR>
To reach for the stars<BR>
On a whim or a dare<BR>
I could climb to the top<BR>
If I only could reach the first stair<BR>
<BR>
And the world<BR>
Doesn't know what they'd miss<BR>
If a mouse<BR>
Doesn't follow his dream<BR>
To scrawl with his last piece of graphite<BR>
To scheme the improbable scheme<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 15:08:37 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> If starships are so rare and few in number, then where the *@^!$$ are<BR>
> the pirates getting all of theirs?? I mean _every_ scenario is 'Oh a<BR>
> lone trader happens by in his creaky Far Trader every couple of years<BR>
> braving the wilds and pirate-infested space'...<BR>
><BR>
> Piracy (even where is IS realistic...get your finger OFF those flamer<BR>
> triggers!) depends on a LARGE volume of trade: a collapsed economy<BR>
> doesn't support em!<BR>
><BR>
> Here on earth pirates have ONLY ever existed along rich trade routes,<BR>
> this is going to be the same for interstellar travel, too.<BR>
<BR>
Not neccessarily.<BR>
<BR>
In low tech areas, the pirates are the local "strong-men".<BR>
Have a look at the British operations against the Burmese natives in the<BR>
1800's, or look at Mogadishu now.<BR>
<BR>
They raid neighbouring societies that don't have starships and other pirates<BR>
as much as they raid passing ships.<BR>
<BR>
(see also : "The Legend of the Star Raiders" by the Brothers Keith, or the<BR>
Olaf Stapledon stories about the culture of raiders that charge out of their<BR>
ancient starship on horseback to take yet anither world.)<BR>
<BR>
Remember, the only difference betweem the Imperium and the pirates is that<BR>
the Imperium has more ships.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:11:47 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Striker multi-barrel weapons<BR>
<BR>
At 09:55 PM 9/22/00 EDT, Ludowick wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>The best way to handle multi barrel weapons in Striker is to give them<BR>
>a hit bonus like autofire.  Remember that each doubling of the ROF <BR>
>increases the hit bonus by +1.  You can use the pulse laser hit bonus<BR>
>table to make it easy:<BR>
><BR>
>2-3 barrels = 2 or 3 x ROF = +1 over single weapon ROF bonus (if any)<BR>
>4-7 barrels = 4 to 7 x ROF = +2<BR>
>8-15 barrels = 8 to 15 x ROF = + 3<BR>
>etc.<BR>
<BR>
Thank you sir!<BR>
<BR>
I have been pondering what the DM would be for a more realistic rate of<BR>
fire, such as the two to three round burst taught to us at the Benning<BR>
School for Boys. This was with the old M16A1, no burst regulator. Fun, fun,<BR>
fun.<BR>
<BR>
(ObTrav: Silly or euphemistic names for 3I bases and training establishments.)<BR>
<BR>
An NCO from the 3rd Special Forces Group once asked me if he could fire a<BR>
few rounds from one of rifles. It was a semi-auto Kalashnikov clone<BR>
chambered in 5.56 x 45 and was fitted with the stupid thumbhole stock. <BR>
<BR>
He was firing two round bursts from it.<BR>
<BR>
Needless to say, I was astounded.<BR>
<BR>
>Ludowick <never thought of a twin laser rifle pintle mount><BR>
<BR>
I used to think that a cupola mounted rifle strengh (or better) multi-pulse<BR>
laser for use by the vehicle commander would have been pretty neat.<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
 <BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:57:56 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Old Dragon Magazines For Sale<BR>
<BR>
Since I doubt that I will ever look at them again, I have decided to unload<BR>
a box of old issues of TSR's Dragon magazine. I have the following issues,<BR>
which are in fairly good shape, and are currently in plastic bags. Some are<BR>
still in the protective mailing cover in which they arrived in the mail. The<BR>
games like Snit Smashing and others are not present, since I removed them<BR>
years ago to play them.<BR>
<BR>
TD 7<BR>
TD 8<BR>
TD 9<BR>
TD 10<BR>
TD 11<BR>
TD 12<BR>
TD 13<BR>
TD 14<BR>
TD 15<BR>
TD 16<BR>
TD 17<BR>
TD 18<BR>
TD 19<BR>
TD 20<BR>
TD 21<BR>
TD 22<BR>
TD 25<BR>
TD 26<BR>
TD 27<BR>
TD 28<BR>
TD 29<BR>
TD 30<BR>
TD 32<BR>
TD 39<BR>
TD 40<BR>
<BR>
I am asking $25 for each magazine plus $3.20 postage (outside the US higher,<BR>
but at cost). Of course, multiple magazines will be combined to reduce<BR>
postage costs. PayPal is the preferred method of payment, but not necessary.<BR>
<BR>
Please contact me off-list if you are interested in any of these. Any which<BR>
are unsold after October 8 I plan to sell on eBay.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 04:24:23 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:18:11 -0400<BR>
>From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Ther thought of Yakko and Wakko appearing in Santanocheev's desk and<BR>
>proclaiming him "Our new special friend!" and Dot leaping onto Norris and<BR>
>shouting, "Helloooooo Archduke-of-Deneb nurse!" is, frankly,<BR>
>terrifying.  Still, you have to wonder about how it would look if it was<BR>
>those three who got the Imperial Warrant from <wherever>....<BR>
><BR>
>Can you imagine what Pinky and the Brain would do with Longbow?  ("Gee,<BR>
>Brain, waht'rewegonnadotonight?" "The same thing we do ever night, Pinky...<BR>
>try to take over the Imperium!"  And you wondered just WHO planted the bomb<BR>
>in Dulinor's gig? ZORT!)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Naaaarf.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"She came from Planet Claire<BR>
 I knew she came from there<BR>
 She drove a Plymouth Satellite<BR>
 Faster than the speed of light"<BR>
  - B-52's<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 04:47:44 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:13:59 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, for a black hole of less than *galactic* mass, the problem is<BR>
>avoiding being ripped to shreds by the tidal forces on the way in.<BR>
><BR>
>Getting out is easy. After all, Jump drive is FTL... :-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps I'm missing something but if the penalty for attempting to<BR>
jump within 10 diameters of a massive object is almost certain to<BR>
result in a catastrophic (IE ship destroyed) mis-jump wouldn't<BR>
jumping from *inside* a massive object be enough to guarentee<BR>
destruction?<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"She came from Planet Claire<BR>
 I knew she came from there<BR>
 She drove a Plymouth Satellite<BR>
 Faster than the speed of light"<BR>
  - B-52's<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:13:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> No, it's:  a lone pirate happens by in his creaky Far Trader every couple<BR>
> of years to get rid of his loot and repair his ship after braving the wilds<BR>
> and pirate-infested space.  <BR>
><BR>
> Traders and pirates are interchangeable at a certain point.  Why buy what<BR>
> you can steal or scavenge?  And raiding "outsiders" is not a crime.<BR>
><BR>
> I think there is some stuff about this in Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales".  I<BR>
> vaguely recall him describing a ship captain of rather flexible morals.<BR>
<BR>
That's how the Vikings operated. If you looked like an easy target,<BR>
you got raided. If you looked like too much trouble, they'd trade with<BR>
you.<BR>
<BR>
However, there's a substantial difference between pirates (who attack<BR>
other ships) and raiders (who attack vulnerable settlements).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:17:00 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>> Most US beer is 3.2% (or is it 6.2%). Stuff like O'Douls is "less than<BR>
>> 0.5%" (aka "near beer")<BR>
><BR>
> I think most US beers are in the 5-7% range. Unfortunately, the two brands <BR>
> of beer I have handy to check right now don't specify; there must be some <BR>
> law discouraging display of percentages for people optimizing for maximum <BR>
> alcohol intake.<BR>
<BR>
Last I heard it was required to display it. Partly because that's how<BR>
the state liquor folks can check to see if it's legal.<BR>
<BR>
> Wines typically run about 10-15%, IIRC, and normal winemaking processes <BR>
> can't  get much higher than that. <BR>
<BR>
Beer tops out around there too. There's some Belgian beer that's<BR>
suipposed to be really awful, but folks drink it because it's 18% or<BR>
some such.<BR>
<BR>
I've heard that yeast have been developed that'll get to 25% (50<BR>
proof). But the other stuff they produce makes it too vile to drink. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Check G.C.Edmondson's "the Aluminun Man" for a story involving (among<BR>
other craziness) the search for a "high tolerance yeast". <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:11:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>>> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
>>><BR>
>>>>ObTrav: The PCs encounter the Red Dwarf...<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>     Oh no, oh no.  I am sadistic, but not that sadistic.  Not even<BR>
>>> I would subject them to Lister.  *weg*  A Type S Scout after a long<BR>
>>> mission smells better.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Lister's not a problem. Rimmer, on the other hand....<BR>
><BR>
> Yah, but Rimmer (at least until the later seasons) was an insubstantial<BR>
> hologram.<BR>
<BR>
Right. Which means that no matter *how* annoying he gets, you can't<BR>
just gag him or kill him.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:24:16 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Scary ideas (was Re: Subsurface sandwiches)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Nattrass wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >Hmmm. There's a thought. A world where Brain has succeeded...<BR>
>> <BR>
>> a scary thought, but it'd only be temporary... it always is with brain,<BR>
>> after all there is snowball to worry about!<BR>
><BR>
> Not since Roddy McDowell died a while back.<BR>
><BR>
> Besides, what would be _wrong_ in a world in which Brain succeeded? <BR>
<BR>
Agreed. It'd just be good for freaking out the players a bit. <BR>
<BR>
> After all, didn't Brain teach us (music begins):<BR>
><BR>
> To scheme the improbable scheme<BR>
> To plan the unthinkable plan<BR>
> To build when your arms are too tiny<BR>
> To walk in the suit of a man<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Is that from one of the episodes I missed, or did you think it up on<BR>
your own?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 00:25:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Taxing energy<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
> From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
>><BR>
>> > If each citizen uses 0.5 megawatts an hour on average,<BR>
>> <BR>
>> You mean "0.5 MJ/hr" or "0.5 MW". Watts *is* a "per time" measure.<BR>
>  <BR>
> <snip> <BR>
><BR>
>> I use a fair amount of power (all these computers :-). And I used 801<BR>
>> kW-hr last month. That's a bit over 1 kW average. Muliply that by 10 to<BR>
>> allow for folks with stuff like air conditioners and electric heat. <BR>
><BR>
> Maybe he meant MW/hr in the same way you were using kW/hr...<BR>
<BR>
I used kW-hr (kilowatt hours) not kW/hr (kilowatts per hour). The<BR>
second would be an accelerating (rapdily!) use of power.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:41:33 +0100<BR>
From: "Neil McGurk" <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: The Roc <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 4:34 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
snip<BR>
<BR>
> And more recently, there is a fellow in London, England driving an<BR>
ex-Desert<BR>
> Shield/Storm, safety-yellow Scorpion (or is it the other one - Scimitar??<BR>
> Though I may be mistaken on both???!! ;) around, street legal - saw that<BR>
one<BR>
> on a reasonably recent Discovery Channel doco.<BR>
<BR>
The Scorpion has a 76mm main gun and the Scimitar a 30mm Radan cannon. There<BR>
may be other diffrenses but I always go by 'thick barrel' is a Scorpion and<BR>
'thin barrel' is a Scimitar.<BR>
<BR>
Regularly local news programes, in the UK, have civilians buying road leagal<BR>
'tanks'. These are nearly always if fact Abbot SPG's. I know of a least half<BR>
a dozen if civilian hands.<BR>
<BR>
Nellkyn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 04:49:43 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3087<BR>
<BR>
I toured there in April (I live only about an hour away).  Picked up<BR>
two bottles of their Bicentennial Whiskey.  One we cracked one that<BR>
day.  The other's in storage for a *very* special occasion (the birth<BR>
of a child, the invention of jump drive, the Second Coming -- something<BR>
along those lines).  The stuff's that good -- not like the stuff you<BR>
buy in the package store (and at $35 a bottle, it had better not be!).<BR>
<BR>
Wonder if the emperor would ever develop a taste for Tennessee sipping<BR>
whiskey?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> wrote:<BR>
> Eris wrote:<BR>
> > Just to "blow the minds" of the list's collective consciouness...I<BR>
> live in a "dry county."  Nothing stronger than weak beer is legally<BR>
> available.<BR>
> > If you want to drink you have to drive to a neighboring county...or<BR>
> find a bootlegger. <g><BR>
> <BR>
> That's nothing; the Jack Daniels distillery is in a dry county. When<BR>
> I toured <BR>
> it last summer, the guide (who had quite a polished routine)<BR>
> mentioned that <BR>
> from the distillery, the nearest place you can legally buy JD is "12<BR>
> miles, <BR>
> thirty-seven yards, and ten steps" away. <BR>
> <BR>
> You can't sample the stuff there, but the guide took great pleasure<BR>
> in <BR>
> pointing out that "the gummint can't tax the fumes!" and flapped the<BR>
> lid of <BR>
> one of the filtering vats[1] into the faces of the tourists, which<BR>
> was pretty<BR>
> impressive.<BR>
> <BR>
> He also pointed out that if one of the warehouse buildings did catch<BR>
> fire, <BR>
> they could count on a huge force of volunteers to set up a bucket<BR>
> brigade <BR>
> -- with full buckets coming _out_.<BR>
> <BR>
> -Russell B<BR>
> <BR>
> [1] About 10 feet diameter, 20 feet deep, packed full of charcoal<BR>
> (burned on<BR>
> the distillery site), with freshly distilled booze, cask strength<BR>
> (60% or <BR>
> 120 proof, or maybe even stronger, I don't recall) being dripped into<BR>
> the <BR>
> top and collected at the bottom. In principle, this removes some of<BR>
> the <BR>
> nastier higher alcohols that come out of the still, which are then<BR>
> replaced<BR>
> by the carcinogens that leach out of the scorched interior of the<BR>
> casks <BR>
> they age the stuff in. :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 21:20:46 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: The Long Night<BR>
<BR>
> From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
> I was thinking about the Vilani and it occurred to me that they<BR>
> might have only colonized a few worlds throughout the vast area of<BR>
> the First Imperium.  They strike me as the sort that wouldn't be<BR>
> crazy about colonizing every hellhole, rockball and iceworld out<BR>
> there, just the worlds that are gardens...or at least fairly easy to<BR>
> colonize.  <BR>
<BR>
Colonies-in-bottles can actually be the easiest kind to establish.  First<BR>
of all, they are nice and standard:  once you have built the first one the<BR>
next is exactly the same.  Getting involved with alien biospheres and<BR>
"inhabitable" worlds is messy in comparison.<BR>
<BR>
Of course if trading with other species is the goal of the exercise, you<BR>
would need to be able to interact with them on their worlds, but that<BR>
doesn't mean that the rest of the Imperium isn't a network of refuelling<BR>
and repair stations, plus mining stations, wretched hives of scum and<BR>
villainy, etc.  All of these can be inside tin cans.<BR>
<BR>
> If this is the case, The Long Night could be a *very* interesting<BR>
> period of expansion and exploration.  Dozens of small states would<BR>
> have the opportunity to expand out from their worlds into the,<BR>
> almost uninhabited areas, surrounding them.  <BR>
<BR>
The lots of small states model is the way to go, but there can still be<BR>
considerable slabs of wilderness out there.  The point is that there is<BR>
fragmentation, and hence danger.  And the pirates are the navies and<BR>
merchants of some of the other spacefaring worlds out there, not just<BR>
renegades.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, who am I kidding?  Just read H. Beam Piper's Space Viking, draw a map,<BR>
and do it.  Your ships won't be as powerful as _his_ Happy Fun Balls, but<BR>
the game is just laid out in front of you.  Enjoy.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 07:19:54 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Scary ideas (was Re: Subsurface sandwiches)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> > After all, didn't Brain teach us (music begins):<BR>
> ><BR>
> > To scheme the improbable scheme<BR>
> > To plan the unthinkable plan<BR>
> > To build when your arms are too tiny<BR>
> > To walk in the suit of a man<BR>
> <BR>
> <snip><BR>
> <BR>
> Is that from one of the episodes I missed, or did you think it up on<BR>
> your own?<BR>
<BR>
It's from "The Mouse of La Mancha, " in which Don Cerebro de la Mancha,<BR>
after being knocked off his horse by a windmill, devises a plan to jam<BR>
the windmill's gears, thus giving him power over the humans who rely on<BR>
the windmill to grind their grain.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 05:21:26 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Piracy does not necessarily mean attacking merchant shipping.  During<BR>
the 16th-18th century many pirates made their fortunes raiding towns. <BR>
Even today piracy does not always fit the romantic notion thereof.  A<BR>
few years back one pirate group was running a protection racket near a<BR>
port in (IIRC) Venezuela.  You paid their fees, or your ships had<BR>
accidents (cargo stolen, shipboard fires, etc.).<BR>
<BR>
I can see high tech protection rackets during the long night.  A pirate<BR>
group might stake out a territory, and merchants would pay a toll to<BR>
cross that territory safely.  Of course, the only pirate group allowed<BR>
to operate in the area would be the one running the racket, so there<BR>
might be small space battles as other groups tried to horn-in on a<BR>
lucrative region.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, over time, these pirates might form the basis for<BR>
interstellar governments.  Seems something like this actually happened<BR>
in Reavers' Deep.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote:<BR>
> Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > From: Bruce Johnson<BR>
> > > If starships are so rare and few in number, then where the *@^!$$<BR>
> are<BR>
> > > the pirates getting all of theirs??<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Famille Spofulam.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ok, that's it, I surrender. "Lord protect us from the fury of the<BR>
> norsme^h^h^h^h Famille. Amen"<BR>
> <BR>
> > A large volume of trade or weak planetary defences!<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > Here on earth pirates have ONLY ever existed along rich trade<BR>
> routes,<BR>
> > > this is going to be the same for interstellar travel, too.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Pirates aren't necessarily solely dependent on piracy for their<BR>
> survival.<BR>
> > They may well be the _only_ ships operating in an area.<BR>
> <BR>
> Just to be pedantic, at that point, they're no longer pirates in the<BR>
> commonly accepted sence, but either raiders (if they're dumb) or the<BR>
> government (if they're smart).<BR>
> <BR>
> Point taken though. Still if shps are so incredibly rare, risking<BR>
> yours<BR>
> to take another one is going to be a VERY dicey move. When a critical<BR>
> hit can strand you forever in the system you're in, you're going to<BR>
> be<BR>
> really careful with your ship.<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Bruce Johnson<BR>
> University of Arizona<BR>
> College of Pharmacy<BR>
> Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3089<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3090</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/23/00 11:45:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 23 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3090<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3087<BR>
Trade route tables from 1st Ed. Traveller<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML <BR>
Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
RE: Striker III etc (was RE: CT Exchange Rate tables)<BR>
RE: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
RE: still doubtful that my messages get posted to TML...<BR>
RE: Striker III<BR>
Re: High Recoil Fun<BR>
Re: The Long Night (Hrlaall!)<BR>
RE: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: The Long Night (Hrlaall!)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:39:43 +1000<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Michael Malone" <NarellePark@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3087<BR>
<BR>
$35 a bottle?  Call that special?  I have eyed off (and drunk) stuff at my<BR>
local that is that much per nip (=30 ml).  Strephon surely would have room<BR>
for better taste (as would seem to be indicated in AHL, hence one of the<BR>
scenarios)<BR>
<BR>
The Very Jaded Academician Boris Kalashnkikov<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 9:49 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3087<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I toured there in April (I live only about an hour away).  Picked up<BR>
two bottles of their Bicentennial Whiskey.  One we cracked one that<BR>
day.  The other's in storage for a *very* special occasion (the birth<BR>
of a child, the invention of jump drive, the Second Coming -- something<BR>
along those lines).  The stuff's that good -- not like the stuff you<BR>
buy in the package store (and at $35 a bottle, it had better not be!).<BR>
<BR>
Wonder if the emperor would ever develop a taste for Tennessee sipping<BR>
whiskey?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com> wrote:<BR>
> Eris wrote:<BR>
> > Just to "blow the minds" of the list's collective consciouness...I<BR>
> live in a "dry county."  Nothing stronger than weak beer is legally<BR>
> available.<BR>
> > If you want to drink you have to drive to a neighboring county...or<BR>
> find a bootlegger. <g><BR>
><BR>
> That's nothing; the Jack Daniels distillery is in a dry county. When<BR>
> I toured<BR>
> it last summer, the guide (who had quite a polished routine)<BR>
> mentioned that<BR>
> from the distillery, the nearest place you can legally buy JD is "12<BR>
> miles,<BR>
> thirty-seven yards, and ten steps" away.<BR>
><BR>
> You can't sample the stuff there, but the guide took great pleasure<BR>
> in<BR>
> pointing out that "the gummint can't tax the fumes!" and flapped the<BR>
> lid of<BR>
> one of the filtering vats[1] into the faces of the tourists, which<BR>
> was pretty<BR>
> impressive.<BR>
><BR>
> He also pointed out that if one of the warehouse buildings did catch<BR>
> fire,<BR>
> they could count on a huge force of volunteers to set up a bucket<BR>
> brigade<BR>
> -- with full buckets coming _out_.<BR>
><BR>
> -Russell B<BR>
><BR>
> [1] About 10 feet diameter, 20 feet deep, packed full of charcoal<BR>
> (burned on<BR>
> the distillery site), with freshly distilled booze, cask strength<BR>
> (60% or<BR>
> 120 proof, or maybe even stronger, I don't recall) being dripped into<BR>
> the<BR>
> top and collected at the bottom. In principle, this removes some of<BR>
> the<BR>
> nastier higher alcohols that come out of the still, which are then<BR>
> replaced<BR>
> by the carcinogens that leach out of the scorched interior of the<BR>
> casks<BR>
> they age the stuff in. :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
******************<BR>
ther Traveller - http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
Soldier's Companion -<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
******************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" - Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act<BR>
3, Scene 1<BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
******************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:00:01 -0500<BR>
From: Charles McKnight <cmcknight01@home.com><BR>
Subject: Trade route tables from 1st Ed. Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone have the trade route generation tables from first edition <BR>
Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
Charles McKnight<BR>
cmcknight01@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 15:58:10 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> Of course, over time, these pirates might form the basis for<BR>
> interstellar governments.  Seems something like this actually happened<BR>
> in Reavers' Deep.<BR>
<BR>
It just might have happened in Core sector as well...<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:27:04 EDT<BR>
From: Olegamer@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML <BR>
<BR>
I have experience in two services. I enlisted in the Navy in 1975 much to my <BR>
parents' dismay - with the Viet Nam War and all, I was 19. I was assigned to <BR>
a nuclear fleet ballistic missile submarine as a quartermaster (the rating on <BR>
subs has since been dropped being absorbed by Navigation Electronics <BR>
Technicians). I served on the USS John Adams for three and a half years then <BR>
got out of the Navy at the suggestion of my leading petty officer to go to <BR>
college. On the boat is where I discovered Traveller...played many a campaign <BR>
on the sub during those long patrols. I was especially happy to see High <BR>
Guard was dedicated to a submariner from the Second World War, I appreciate <BR>
that. <BR>
<BR>
I wasn't really ready for college, I ended up joining the army in 1980. I <BR>
wanted to go back in the navy but it would have meant returning to the <BR>
submarine service and I wasn't prepared to do that. I volunteered for the <BR>
Infantry, which my drill sergeant thought was the biggest mistake of my <BR>
life...the guy told me he thought I wasn't going to make it and was surprised <BR>
I stuck it out. Because of the weight I brought to Fort Benning that summer, <BR>
and because of my "navy background." Any way fifteen years later I retired <BR>
from the army as a Sergeant First Class. I pretty much stayed in line units <BR>
the first ten years, first mechanized infantry in Baumholder Germany and Fort <BR>
Polk, Louisiana. Then I transferred to the 101st Airborne (Air Assault). When <BR>
I transferred to Korea from Cort Campbell I was selected to work at 8th Army <BR>
Headquarters in Seoul, then I was assigned to a Readiness Group in up-state <BR>
New York, finally ending up being assigned to 1st Army Headquarters at their <BR>
Replacement Battalion at Rhein Main Airbase near Franfurt, Germany. I was <BR>
assigned to a readiness group during Desert Storm -- training Reservest and <BR>
National Guardsmen who were being shipped out to Saudi Arabia on how to use <BR>
their smallarms and how to plan and execute unit defenses, as well as <BR>
training the 105th Infantry (Light) of the NYNG on how to operate their <BR>
battalion and brigade S2 and S3 shops in a tactical environment. So I fought <BR>
that war from upstate New York. <BR>
<BR>
So I have the unique fate of having had every soldier senior to me have a <BR>
Combat Infantryman's Badge from Viet Nam, and most junior to me have one from <BR>
Desert Storm...While I continued to wear my Expert Infantry Badge. It just <BR>
didn't seem right for me to be training people on how to do warfighting when <BR>
I hadn't done it myself so when I was eligible for retirement I took it. <BR>
<BR>
Now I am a teacher in Kentucky and feel at rest. <BR>
<BR>
Bob Range<BR>
aka Olegamer<BR>
       Scififan56<BR>
       Rangefive<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:44:20 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 23 Sep 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
> >> Most US beer is 3.2% (or is it 6.2%). Stuff like O'Douls is "less than<BR>
> >> 0.5%" (aka "near beer")<BR>
<BR>
Near beer is 3%; O'Douls is legally 'non-alcoholic' and is less than<BR>
0.025% alcohol.<BR>
<BR>
> > I think most US beers are in the 5-7% range. Unfortunately, the two brands <BR>
> > of beer I have handy to check right now don't specify; there must be some <BR>
> > law discouraging display of percentages for people optimizing for maximum <BR>
> > alcohol intake.<BR>
> <BR>
> Last I heard it was required to display it. Partly because that's how<BR>
> the state liquor folks can check to see if it's legal.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I'm not sure if it's a regulation or merely convention, but for<BR>
years (in most states) beer manufacturers have not put alcohol percentages<BR>
on their labels. IN fact when it was proposed as aregulation last year<BR>
that they have to post it, many people were against it, fearing it would<BR>
lead to a percent war among breweries.<BR>
 <BR>
> > Wines typically run about 10-15%, IIRC, and normal winemaking processes <BR>
> > can't  get much higher than that. <BR>
> <BR>
> Beer tops out around there too. There's some Belgian beer that's<BR>
> suipposed to be really awful, but folks drink it because it's 18% or<BR>
> some such.<BR>
<BR>
Pah! It isn't awful; in fact it's quite tasty! Ommengang beer (from the<BR>
Ommengang Brewery in New York) is a belgian style ale, that's around<BR>
15-18% (I haven't a bottle around to check right now) Very nice stuff.<BR>
<BR>
However, you're probably thinking of 'lambic' style beers, which aren't<BR>
completely fermented by yeasts, but a complex cycle of yeasts and<BR>
bacteria. I'm told it's an 'acquired' taste, as well as devilishly<BR>
difficult for the average brewmaster to make (as long as you're not<BR>
working in a lambic brewery in Belgium that's been producing the stuff<BR>
for centuries...then all the organisms are right there, floating about.) <BR>
<BR>
Some years ago there was an article in Scientific American by a<BR>
microbiologist (and avid amateur brewer) who tried to pin down the cycle<BR>
and organisms involved. Surprisingly, several of the bacteria involved are<BR>
normally pathogens!<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 08:51:06 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
<BR>
on 9/23/00 1:17 AM, Leonard Erickson at shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I think most US beers are in the 5-7% range. Unfortunately, the two brands<BR>
>> of beer I have handy to check right now don't specify; there must be some<BR>
>> law discouraging display of percentages for people optimizing for maximum<BR>
>> alcohol intake.<BR>
<BR>
Most US mass produced beer is 3.2% alcohol by volume.  Some microbrews and<BR>
specialty brews go higher (e.g. Old English 800)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
>> Wines typically run about 10-15%, IIRC, and normal winemaking processes<BR>
>> can't  get much higher than that.<BR>
A standard win will rarely ever exceed 12%, because at that concentration,<BR>
the alcohol kills the yeast.  Anything higher than 12 percent has be<BR>
'fortified'.<BR>
<BR>
Not that while the US measures alcohol content by volume, many countries do<BR>
it by weight.  Alcohol has a density of .789, thus european beer which is 5%<BR>
alcohol by European standards would be 6.3% in the US.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Beer tops out around there too. There's some Belgian beer that's<BR>
> suipposed to be really awful, but folks drink it because it's 18% or<BR>
> some such.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC after about 9 or 10% it is no longer beer, but barely wine.  An common<BR>
example is "Russian Imperial Stout", a bareley wine of about 12%n alcohol.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> I've heard that yeast have been developed that'll get to 25% (50<BR>
> proof). But the other stuff they produce makes it too vile to drink.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I haven't do any brewing for a couple of years, but at that time, the<BR>
highest concentration of alcohol obtainable from fermentation was from<BR>
champagne yeast, which could sometimes manage 13% or a little more.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:12:30 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
<BR>
IMTU one of the standards for software is rigours testing that it must go<BR>
thru before it can legally be loaded on a ship. This included backwareds<BR>
compatablity testing, stress testing, cross platform testing and other long,<BR>
drawn out tests. These tests are administered at the ISSCB's regional labs<BR>
(one per domain). A programmer may submit a program, source code, and notes<BR>
via Xboat. Turn around time is about 2 - 3 years.<BR>
<BR>
The ISSCB was created to stop buggy shipboard software. Could you imagine<BR>
the nav computer running windows 95? (Sir.. the navcomp just BOSD'ed, or<BR>
sir, we just got an xboat message - the NavComp needs 37 hot fixes to fix<BR>
securiy holes that have been discovered in the last 2 months)? Problem was<BR>
that everyone liked the stability of ISSCB rated software, so no one will<BR>
buy software unless it has the little ISSCB holo-logo on it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----<BR>
<BR>
 > An why has there been so little computer progress in in several thousand<BR>
> years, anyway?<BR>
<BR>
Vilani conservatism of course !<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
Actually, I suspect that it is _because_ the Imperium has widely followed<BR>
standards.<BR>
No point in inovation unless you can make it a standard, and doing that<BR>
takes centuries of politicking and maneuvering.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:24:47 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker III etc (was RE: CT Exchange Rate tables)<BR>
<BR>
Such a spreadsheet is available at http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo. Excel<BR>
95, 97 and 2000 versions will be posted today.<BR>
<BR>
Version 1.1 beta will be released later today. This includes full tacmissle<BR>
design rules.<BR>
<BR>
Version 1.2 beta is scheduled for future release, with Aircraft and<BR>
Helicopters added into the mix.<BR>
<BR>
Version 2.0 Full Release is not scheduled at this time, but will include all<BR>
the above, and some really cool macros. (Mr. Avendoo has been spearheading<BR>
this project, but he does not know how to create macros. Mr. Pinkly will be<BR>
returning from an business trip into the Varger Extents soon, and he will<BR>
take over the macro portion of the design)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----<BR>
<BR>
Striker is a pretty good game, perhaps the best miniatures rules which I<BR>
have played, but it suffers a bit from having a design sequence which is<BR>
just too complex. Note, for example, that it's almost impossible to create a<BR>
spreadsheet that you can use to design vehicles. If you try to include even<BR>
a significant fraction of the possible options, you soon find out that its<BR>
fairly unwieldy.<BR>
<BR>
High Guard, on the other hand, has a design system which can easily fit on a<BR>
spreadsheet. There must be a way to streamline Striker so that it's more<BR>
understandible. In addition to a simpler system being more fun to use, it<BR>
will also appeal to a larger audience, which is certainly good for<BR>
Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
I would suggest that the people working on FF&S3 tear up all of their work,<BR>
or use a strong cryptographic file deletion if its only in electronic form,<BR>
and focus on a gearhead project which gives Traveller broader appeal rather<BR>
than narrower.<BR>
<BR>
Another alternative is a 101 Striker Vehicles project. Having useful designs<BR>
on hand for a wide range of TLs would certainly make the game more<BR>
appealing.<BR>
<BR>
Some really ambitions person could even run a monthly Striker design contest<BR>
like the old THUDDD, except for Striker. That should certainly provide<BR>
enough input for the 101 SV project.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:30:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
<BR>
Wow.. I think that I might have to use that.<BR>
<BR>
Sheesh.. Now I wish that I lived in England, San Jose and Portland all<BR>
wrapped up in one :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----<BR>
<BR>
The characters were running<BR>
around Miami FL trying to prevent a madman setting off a nuclear device.<BR>
They finally found the nuclear device just as the madman, who was quite<BR>
understandably driving hell-for-leather down the interstate, was spooked<BR>
by some emergency vehicle sirens and pushed the button.<BR>
<BR>
Big flash.<BR>
<BR>
Shellshocked players... I have never seen quite such a totally gobsmacked<BR>
table-full.<BR>
<BR>
So I let them sit there for 5 minutes going "We're all dead" in tones of<BR>
disbelief...<BR>
<BR>
Then told them where they woke up - turned out to be Vendhya, the 'India'<BR>
of Hyborea (Conan the Barbarian's world). Nuclear device had been sitting<BR>
on some kinda ancient dimensional portal control device, which had sucked<BR>
up all the power, opened a portal and dropped 'em through.<BR>
<BR>
Then they had to find a way back... :-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:33:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: still doubtful that my messages get posted to TML...<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I have no thoughts on this.<BR>
<BR>
My brain is not functioning at this time.<BR>
<BR>
But I am happy to report that you have sucessfully mastered the art of<BR>
posting!<BR>
<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of fadetozero<BR>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:22 AM<BR>
To: traveller-digest@ient.com<BR>
Subject: still doubtful that my messages get posted to TML...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
what is the consensus on the ethics of getting photocopies of OOP material<BR>
from people?  my personal stance is that i want the copies, i wish to<BR>
negotiate a mutually agreeable wage for peoples' time, and i want to pay the<BR>
originators' of the material either fair market price, or the price they are<BR>
willing to let the material be photocopied for, or electronically<BR>
republished for (whichever is lower, of course...)<BR>
<BR>
What are the Traveller Community's thoughts on the matter?<BR>
<BR>
jim<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:41:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker III<BR>
<BR>
Later Today:<BR>
<BR>
http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo will be posting a collection of TL12<BR>
striker vehicles.<BR>
<BR>
Look for more updates as time goes by!<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Luther Martin<BR>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:28 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Striker III<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Simon Hibbs wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Well, there's always '102 Vehicles' by the British Isles Traveller<BR>
> Support group. It's a collection of designs for Traveller 4,<BR>
> and is a free download in PDF format from their web site, as is<BR>
> their collection of over 100 starship designs.<BR>
<BR>
But it's not useful at all for Striker.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:52:00 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: High Recoil Fun<BR>
<BR>
on 9/22/00 6:46 AM, Tod Glenn at webmaster@travellercentral.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Not really traveller related, but I know several people on the list are gun<BR>
> enthusiasts, and even those who aren't might enjoy this bit of humor.<BR>
> Someone firing an elephant gun for the first time.<BR>
> <BR>
> This is a QuickTime movie, at around 3 meg.<BR>
> <BR>
> see http://www.travellercentral.com/movie.html<BR>
<BR>
The file is fixed and working now, for all who were interested.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:22:33 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Long Night (Hrlaall!)<BR>
<BR>
Don't tell anyone, but I have been running Hivers ops trying to create<BR>
enough interest in a milieu sourcebook in this exact vein.  Certain VIPs<BR>
like the idea, but polling data does not support my position... yet.<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
><BR>
> Oh, who am I kidding?  Just read H. Beam Piper's Space Viking, draw a map,<BR>
> and do it.  Your ships won't be as powerful as _his_ Happy Fun Balls, but<BR>
> the game is just laid out in front of you.  Enjoy.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 18:41 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Thieve's World Redux<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <002a01c0257b$896533d0$85320918@c484567b><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
If you "Tsykoduk" (or anyone else, for that matter) would like a copy of <BR>
the scenario, please ask off-list - use the address mexal@phoenix.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
You will not get a reply for about a week because I am about to go on <BR>
holiday (to bask in the sun in Tunisia and write more scenarios!).<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:11:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
>>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:13:59 PST<BR>
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
><BR>
>>Actually, for a black hole of less than *galactic* mass, the problem is<BR>
>>avoiding being ripped to shreds by the tidal forces on the way in.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Getting out is easy. After all, Jump drive is FTL... :-)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Perhaps I'm missing something but if the penalty for attempting to<BR>
> jump within 10 diameters of a massive object is almost certain to<BR>
> result in a catastrophic (IE ship destroyed) mis-jump wouldn't<BR>
> jumping from *inside* a massive object be enough to guarentee<BR>
> destruction?<BR>
<BR>
Since you can jump from inside a "massive object" (the galaxy), there<BR>
*has* to be some sort of density adjustment. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:06:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>> >> Most US beer is 3.2% (or is it 6.2%). Stuff like O'Douls is "less than<BR>
>> >> 0.5%" (aka "near beer")<BR>
><BR>
> Near beer is 3%; O'Douls is legally 'non-alcoholic' and is less than<BR>
> 0.025% alcohol.<BR>
<BR>
Check with your local liquor control board. I'll merely note that<BR>
O'Douls and the like get locked up at the same time as the rest of the<BR>
alcohol at the places that are open all night, and they don't sell it<BR>
to minors...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:05:14 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Beer tops out around there too. There's some Belgian beer that's<BR>
>> suipposed to be really awful, but folks drink it because it's 18% or<BR>
>> some such.<BR>
><BR>
> IIRC after about 9 or 10% it is no longer beer, but barely wine.  An common<BR>
> example is "Russian Imperial Stout", a bareley wine of about 12%n alcohol.<BR>
<BR>
I think you mean "barley wine". "Barely wine" is something else<BR>
entirely. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:11:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
>>     Oh no, oh no.  I am sadistic, but not that sadistic.  Not even I<BR>
would<BR>
>> subject them to Lister.  *weg*  A Type S Scout after a long mission<BR>
smells<BR>
>> better.<BR>
><BR>
>Lister's not a problem. Rimmer, on the other hand....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    How would you like to spend time with a man who doesn't change his<BR>
underwear, except once a month.  With Rimmer, you can always turn him off.<BR>
<BR>
>pps. and in the "silly 'mascot'" character contest "Cat" wins over<BR>
>Wesley. No contest. :-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Cat is not a silly mascot, Weasel on the other hand is.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:12:35 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
>> Yah, but Rimmer (at least until the later seasons) was an insubstantial<BR>
>> hologram.<BR>
><BR>
>Right. Which means that no matter *how* annoying he gets, you can't<BR>
>just gag him or kill him.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    But, you can grab his light-bee.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:31:32 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: The Long Night (Hrlaall!)<BR>
<BR>
On 09/23/00 at 01:22 PM,  "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Don't tell anyone, but I have been running Hivers ops trying to<BR>
>create enough interest in a milieu sourcebook in this exact vein. <BR>
>Certain VIPs like the idea, but polling data does not support my<BR>
>position... yet.<BR>
<BR>
What? You mean a "middle of the Long Night" doesn't interest everybody? What's wrong with them? <g><BR>
<BR>
>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
>><BR>
>> Oh, who am I kidding?  Just read H. Beam Piper's Space Viking, draw a map,<BR>
>> and do it.  Your ships won't be as powerful as _his_ Happy Fun Balls, but<BR>
>> the game is just laid out in front of you.  Enjoy.<BR>
<BR>
This is pretty much what I've done with my Akus PBEM. The Quentel Main is a mish-mash of small states with lots of open area between most of them, and the general tech level is 8 to 12 with many cultures just beginning to travel around.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3090<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 23 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3091<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
Re: The Long Night<BR>
Re: Trade route tables from 1st Ed. Traveller<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
Sandwiches of the Imperium (was Re: "pop")<BR>
Usingou/Ziafrplians Sector<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
Re: It just made me think of my old Traveller group...<BR>
RE: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
RE: Keyboard Kills<BR>
[ADMIN]  Old Messages ?<BR>
RE: Very odd question...<BR>
Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: Very odd question...<BR>
Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
New Filks up.<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 12:04:34 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
<BR>
> Pah! It isn't awful; in fact it's quite tasty! Ommengang beer (from<BR>
> the Ommengang Brewery in New York) is a belgian style ale, that's<BR>
> around 15-18% (I haven't a bottle around to check right now) Very nice<BR>
> stuff.<BR>
> <BR>
> However, you're probably thinking of 'lambic' style beers, which<BR>
> aren't completely fermented by yeasts, but a complex cycle of yeasts<BR>
> and bacteria. I'm told it's an 'acquired' taste, as well as devilishly<BR>
> difficult for the average brewmaster to make (as long as you're not<BR>
> working in a lambic brewery in Belgium that's been producing the stuff<BR>
> for centuries...then all the organisms are right there, floating<BR>
> about.) <BR>
<BR>
Lambics "aweful" or "an aquired taste"???  They're awesome, a <BR>
good raspberry or cherry lambic has a full flavor which is sweet w/o <BR>
being at all soda-like or candy-like.  What is there to dislike? <BR>
Lambics are my fave.<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:48:38 -0500<BR>
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Long Night<BR>
<BR>
The long night has always been the most interesting time in the Traveller<BR>
history to me :)<BR>
<BR>
TV<BR>
- ------------------------<BR>
"Never apologize, never explain."<BR>
                           Hunter S. Thompson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:14:47 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Trade route tables from 1st Ed. Traveller<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Does anyone have the trade route generation tables from first edition <BR>
> Traveller?<BR>
<BR>
World              Jump Distance<BR>
Pair     Jump-1   Jump-2   Jump-3   Jump-4<BR>
A-A        1        2        4        5<BR>
A-B        1        3        4        5<BR>
A-C        1        4        6        -<BR>
A-D        1        5        -        -<BR>
A-E        2        -        -        -<BR>
B-B        1        3        4        6<BR>
B-C        2        4        6        -<BR>
B-D        3        6        -        -<BR>
B-E        4        -        -        -<BR>
C-C        3        6        -        -<BR>
C-D        4        -        -        -<BR>
C-E        4        -        -        -<BR>
D-D        4        -        -        -<BR>
D-E        5        -        -        -<BR>
E-E        6        -        -        -<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:36:59 +0100<BR>
From: "Neil McGurk" <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
><<I have a great deal of respect for those who have or are<BR>
>servicing their nation.>><BR>
<BR>
>An obvious difference in languages across the pond ...<BR>
<BR>
No, me not checking my typing before sending the message. Ah Bugger!<BR>
<BR>
Nellkyn<BR>
<BR>
>In the U.S., one serves one's nation.  To service the nation would make<BR>
>Monica Lewinski extremely tired.<BR>
<BR>
>=====<BR>
>Gerry Harris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:59:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 23 Sep 2000 05:21:26 -0700 (PDT), Gerry Harris <BR>
<harrisgwjr@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I can see high tech protection rackets during the long night.  A pirate<BR>
>group might stake out a territory, and merchants would pay a toll to<BR>
>cross that territory safely.  Of course, the only pirate group allowed<BR>
>to operate in the area would be the one running the racket, so there<BR>
>might be small space battles as other groups tried to horn-in on a<BR>
>lucrative region.<BR>
<BR>
The difference between this and feudalism is purely a matter of semantics <BR>
(and/or, who writes the history books).   :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:48:23 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone written up rules regarding orbital bombardment? What I'm<BR>
talking about is attacking targets on a planet's surface by dropping<BR>
large rocks (or crowbars or what-have-you) on it using orbital or<BR>
escape velocities. (And no, I'm not talking about near-C rocks here;<BR>
just your average meteoric/asteroidal/cometary velocities.) How is<BR>
such an attack carried out at various tech levels? How would the<BR>
damage from it be calculated (ie. concussion and thermal effects,<BR>
crater depth/diameter, etc.)? What precautions/defenses could a<BR>
planet set up to protect itself from such an attack? Any help would<BR>
be greatly appreciated.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |   The slack-producing traitor outwits the tiny   |<BR>
              |      rescuer in Joe's Bar and Grill. FNORD!      |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:48:25 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Dalton Spence <dalton.spence@hwcn.org><BR>
Subject: Sandwiches of the Imperium (was Re: "pop")<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:00:03 -0400, "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >>Consider the sub = submarine sandwich = hoagie = po' boy = poor boy<BR>
> ><BR>
> >... = grinder = wedge = hero<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> So here's the ObTrav:<BR>
<BR>
> What I found most interesting, at least with respect to the northern long<BR>
> sandwiches, is where their names come from and what they suggest.<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> The pattern here is that the names all seem related to, at least in some<BR>
> fashion, military vehicles. It forces me to ask: is it possible to find a<BR>
> decent kinunir[1] on Regina? Does anyone know what kind of tigresses[2]<BR>
> folks might find in Daibei? Might long sandwiches come to be known as some<BR>
> corruption of rampart or pinnace? ("I'll have a rampie with makitiki and<BR>
> veriyer, but no  green peppers. They always give me heartburn.").<BR>
<BR>
> [1] kinunir - A "pocket" sandwich. Basically, it's Sylean flatbread wrapped<BR>
> around various heated meats and cheeses in the shape of a wide, flat cone.<BR>
> It's rather floppy, so eating one can be somewhat messy.<BR>
<BR>
> [2] tigress - Any sort of sandwich placed on a nearly spherical, but<BR>
> extremely light and flaky, roll. Different worlds have their own specialty<BR>
> tigresses, based on the local ingredients.<BR>
<BR>
A few more ideas from Ye Olde Imperium Sandwich Shoppe, named after<BR>
common ships seen at any starport:<BR>
<BR>
[3] cutter - The 3I equivalent of a sub (hoagie/po'boy/whatever).<BR>
Based on a long cylindrical roll with rounded ends and a hollow<BR>
center section (either scooped out or baked with an air pocket), it<BR>
may be filled with *anything!* Since these rolls are a standard size<BR>
across the Imperium (and even beyond), many companies manufacture<BR>
filling "modules" in a light edible shell that can be inserted in a<BR>
cutter-roll or served separately (hot or cold). Standard fillings<BR>
vary widely from region to region, and certain famous restaurant<BR>
chains have their own "secret recipes".<BR>
<BR>
[4] bo'wulf - Similar to the "tigress" but in crusty wedge-shaped<BR>
roll. A favorite at starport bars where freetraders congregate. A<BR>
smaller pocket version meant to be eaten on-the-go is a "sulie".<BR>
<BR>
[5] marvi - Another "tigress" variation, this time served between<BR>
thick rectangular slices of toasted bread or equivalent. Basically a<BR>
regular toasted or grilled sandwich.<BR>
<BR>
[6] akki (also "fat boy") - A *large* variation of the cutter (about<BR>
the size of a modern load of bread) with a small "launch" sandwich<BR>
tacked on one end, this is often sliced into several portions and<BR>
served to a small group (3 to 6 people). When this group has a<BR>
recognized leader (such as a family or small starship crew), the<BR>
custom is "the cap'n gets the launch"; otherwise its every sophont<BR>
for themselves. Note: the "cap'n" may offer the "launch" to another<BR>
group member as an unofficial recognition of a job well done; it is<BR>
very bad manners to refuse it, even though the recipient is expected<BR>
to either pay for the meal or clean up afterwards. Taking it without<BR>
permission is even worse, and is known as "'jacking the launch."<BR>
<BR>
[7] vandi, shalli - Slang term used for any sort of fancy sandwich<BR>
with exotic filling served at a high class luncheon or banquet, with<BR>
the two terms denoting sector-class and Imperium-class snootiness<BR>
respectively. Some of these fillings may be a touch *too* exotic<BR>
(particularly at gatherings of multi-species sophonts), and the term<BR>
vandi- or shalli-dancing refers to dealing with the unfortunate<BR>
gastro-intestinal consequences of unwise dining at such events. |-P<BR>
<BR>
[8] four-derves, peti-fours - Any of the class of finger-size or<BR>
smaller appetizer sandwiches commonly served at parties. Generally<BR>
2-3 cm. high and wide and from 1 to 4 times that long, they are<BR>
named after the Standardized Cargo Container class of compariable<BR>
relative dimensions. While this kind of sandwich may *also* be a<BR>
vandi or shalli, it is not required; a finger length snack could be<BR>
a "4A cheese and bacon" while a bite-size cube could be a 4D-PBJ. A<BR>
party freeloader may be known to "take home a pocket full of fours."<BR>
<BR>
Bon appetit!<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
              | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. <dalton.spence@hwcn.org> |<BR>
              | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html  |<BR>
              |      Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos      |<BR>
              |    "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."     |<BR>
              |   Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium   |<BR>
              |   You must meet 007 at Wall Street and get the   |<BR>
              |                  engine. FNORD!                  |<BR>
              @==================================================@<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:37:17 +0100<BR>
From: John Wood <John@elvw.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Usingou/Ziafrplians Sector<BR>
<BR>
You can find my initial version of Usingou/Ziafrplians Sector at<BR>
http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/Sectors/Usingou.html<BR>
<BR>
(I put this up on my website a while ago, but forgot to announce it.)<BR>
<BR>
From the page:<BR>
<BR>
This is the first stage of developing the sector Core-Spinward of the<BR>
Spinward Marches, called Ziafrplians by the Zhodani and Usingou by<BR>
Vargr. Two subsectors (O and P) were already mapped by James Kundert,<BR>
who also named the subsectors; I have generated random UWPs for the rest<BR>
(using a modified-for-Zhodani version of SysGen) and converted star<BR>
types according to the "Collapsing Worlds" article in Challenge 77. Star<BR>
positions were taken (as closely as possible) from the dot map in Vilani<BR>
& Vargr, as were allegiances.<BR>
<BR>
Data is provided in two forms, Standard Sector Format (.SEC) and<BR>
Galactic Sector Archive (.SAR), zipped. The latter has the advantage of<BR>
showing the routes between Zhodani bases. I have tried to place these<BR>
sensibly.<BR>
<BR>
Further Development:<BR>
<BR>
So far the project has required very little creativity; the next step is<BR>
to examine the data and see if it makes for a fun setting. If it doesn't<BR>
it then needs modifying and once the basics are in place it should be<BR>
given more detail.<BR>
<BR>
Randomly generated (but interesting) are the two depots. Depriale (2028)<BR>
is right on the border with the Vargr, Zhdidnianj (0918) is only a<BR>
subsector away. Combining this observation with the obvious "bite" taken<BR>
out of the Consulate by the doggies in this sector leads me to think<BR>
there might be some interesting political/military stuff going on.<BR>
<BR>
More information can be found at GypsyComet's Zhodani Files Site,<BR>
http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/ziafrdot.html.<BR>
Note that a couple of world positions on the dot map don't agree with<BR>
mine; I have followed V&V where I can see a difference.<BR>
<BR>
I have plenty of projects to exercise my brain, so if anyone else wants<BR>
to take this on, feel free. Please email me to let me know, so we can<BR>
avoid duplicated effort.<BR>
<BR>
John<BR>
 <BR>
John G. Wood  |  john@elvw.demon.co.uk  |  Oxford, United Kingdom<BR>
IMTU tc+ tm+ tn t4(+) tg+ ru ge 3i+ jt au- st ls+ hi++ so- zh+ pi+ jd++<BR>
Traveller IS Forms, Gal2CC, etc: http://www.elvw.demon.co.uk/Traveller/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 14:29:56 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
>>> Yah, but Rimmer (at least until the later seasons) was an insubstantial<BR>
>>> hologram.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Right. Which means that no matter *how* annoying he gets, you can't<BR>
>>just gag him or kill him.<BR>
><BR>
>     But, you can grab his light-bee.<BR>
<BR>
Light-bee? That must be something I missed... or that they haven't<BR>
gotten into yet.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 14:30:57 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
>>>     Oh no, oh no.  I am sadistic, but not that sadistic.  Not even I<BR>
> would<BR>
>>> subject them to Lister.  *weg*  A Type S Scout after a long mission<BR>
> smells<BR>
>>> better.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Lister's not a problem. Rimmer, on the other hand....<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>     How would you like to spend time with a man who doesn't change his<BR>
> underwear, except once a month.  With Rimmer, you can always turn him off.<BR>
><BR>
>>pps. and in the "silly 'mascot'" character contest "Cat" wins over<BR>
>>Wesley. No contest. :-)<BR>
><BR>
>     Cat is not a silly mascot, Weasel on the other hand is.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, Cat's a "comic relief" character. <BR>
<BR>
But who or what is "Weasel"?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 10:55:10 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
<BR>
On 23 Sep 00, at 9:12, Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> IMTU one of the standards for software is rigours testing that it must go thru<BR>
> before it can legally be loaded on a ship. This included backwareds<BR>
> compatablity testing, stress testing, cross platform testing and other long,<BR>
> drawn out tests. These tests are administered at the ISSCB's regional labs<BR>
> (one per domain). A programmer may submit a program, source code, and notes<BR>
> via Xboat. Turn around time is about 2 - 3 years.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, software engineering is a mature discpline with proper metrics and <BR>
design processes. The Java and Jolt culture of the Solomani was long ago <BR>
replaced by the engineering discpline of the Vilani :*><BR>
<BR>
> The ISSCB was created to stop buggy shipboard software. Could you imagine the<BR>
> nav computer running windows 95? (Sir.. the navcomp just BOSD'ed, or sir, we<BR>
> just got an xboat message - the NavComp needs 37 hot fixes to fix securiy<BR>
> holes that have been discovered in the last 2 months)? Problem was that<BR>
> everyone liked the stability of ISSCB rated software, so no one will buy<BR>
> software unless it has the little ISSCB holo-logo on it.<BR>
<BR>
No need for it, we can do it now. Look at what Shuttle Software Systems <BR>
produces (I think they are up to 17 defects in 45,000,000 lines of code). If <BR>
you have this level of discipline in contruction, theres no need for such <BR>
extensive testing.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 15:54:58 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Pinkerdoo is proud to announce the release of<BR>
<BR>
the Striker Design Sheet Version 1.1 (beta) is now available at<BR>
http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Also, 15 Tl12 designs (that are for sale from Tributis Corp.) are now<BR>
available for download.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 19:39:56 EDT<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: It just made me think of my old Traveller group...<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/22/00 7:52:12 PM !!!First Boot!!!, SmithW@hartwick.edu <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20000917.html >><BR>
<BR>
did you play with a bunch of off duty cops? ...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:52:07 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> However, there's a substantial difference between pirates (who attack<BR>
> other ships) and raiders (who attack vulnerable settlements).<BR>
<BR>
That's really just semantics.<BR>
<BR>
The victims don't care whether the people who attacked them call themselves<BR>
pirates, raiders, police, or revolutionaries.<BR>
<BR>
Some groups may specialize in one or the other but they will usually do both<BR>
if they get the oppurtunity<BR>
<BR>
For instance, your classic Carribean pirates carried out raids as well as<BR>
piracy, and you yourself mentioned the Vikings, who while being mainly<BR>
raiders, indulged in piracy as well.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 12:03:21 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Keyboard Kills<BR>
<BR>
Charles Collin :<BR>
><BR>
> One thing I think we should take into account with the keyboard kills is<BR>
> the ease of making the target splork.  Jesse DeGraff, IIRC, is an easy<BR>
> mark :-).  While Mark Cook, at least by his own judgement, is really hard<BR>
> to get and should be worth more "points".  I myself rarely drink at the<BR>
> computer ("Don't use the keyboard as a coffee filter, dammit!" My sysadmin<BR>
> used to say), so I'd be hard to tackle as well. Perhaps we could have<BR>
> diminishing returns for multiple splorks from the same target?  Or we<BR>
> could make it like one of those Safari shows: <Aussie> Na' mates, wahtch<BR>
> as Oy stahlk the rare ex-ahrmy splorkah with a mix of anti-militahry<BR>
> ribbin' and a good-ol' inta-specees sex joke! </Aussie><BR>
><BR>
> You know, different points for different targets?<BR>
<BR>
Do you get maximum points for virgins ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 12:13:14 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: [ADMIN]  Old Messages ?<BR>
<BR>
Hey people,<BR>
<BR>
Did anyone else just get a pile of TML messags that look like they came from<BR>
some old conversations ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
Vist Munden's Bar at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 12:23:51 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry<BR>
<BR>
> Working on my Imperial Army uniform for BayCon, I came across the perfect<BR>
> unit patch. It's a gold unicorn, rearing up on a blue background.<BR>
> The patch<BR>
> is supposed to be for the 6th Armored Cavalry Regiment.<BR>
><BR>
> I've searched around the web, but I can't find any reference to this unit.<BR>
> I find a 6th Cavalry in Korea, but their unit patches don't match<BR>
> what I have.<BR>
<BR>
6th ACR with a Unicorn sounds like a WWII British Commonwealth unit, I seem<BR>
to remember seeing a patch of that description in one of my books. I'll get<BR>
back to you if I happen to find it.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, they were in the desert campaigns (Tobruk, Gazala, El ALamein and then<BR>
onto Italy ).<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:02:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
<BR>
From: Andrew Moffatt-Vallance <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
<BR>
<< IMTU, software engineering is a mature discpline with proper metrics and<BR>
design processes. The Java and Jolt culture of the Solomani was long ago<BR>
replaced by the engineering discpline of the Vilani :*> >><BR>
<BR>
    No wonder the 3I is at only TL15.  *weg*  Why if they used the Java &<BR>
Jolt culture of the Solomani, they would be at TL18 or TL19 by now.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:05:01 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
>>>Right. Which means that no matter *how* annoying he gets, you can't<BR>
>>>just gag him or kill him.<BR>
>><BR>
>>     But, you can grab his light-bee.<BR>
><BR>
>Light-bee? That must be something I missed... or that they haven't<BR>
>gotten into yet.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    The Light-Bee is how Rimmer is projected.  Think an internal version of<BR>
the HoloDoc's Holoprojector on ST:Voy.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:03:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
>>>pps. and in the "silly 'mascot'" character contest "Cat" wins over<BR>
>>>Wesley. No contest. :-)<BR>
>><BR>
>>     Cat is not a silly mascot, Weasel on the other hand is.<BR>
><BR>
>Ok, Cat's a "comic relief" character.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Correct, but in the later seasons, he does grow up.  He is actually one<BR>
of my favorite characters in RD, along with Ace Rimmer.<BR>
<BR>
>But who or what is "Weasel"?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Wesley "Weasel" Crusher.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:51:30<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
At 12:23 PM 9/24/2000 +1200, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>6th ACR with a Unicorn sounds like a WWII British Commonwealth unit, I seem<BR>
>to remember seeing a patch of that description in one of my books. I'll get<BR>
>back to you if I happen to find it.<BR>
<BR>
Um, don't bother, since that question was asked in April.  The 6th Armored<BR>
Cavalry Regiment is an american unit, currently in Korea.  You can see the<BR>
finished costume on Jesse's BayCon photo page:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm<BR>
<BR>
This is getting weird.. did a bunch of messages misjump?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 15:37:10 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Chemistry and mis-spent youth<BR>
<BR>
On 09/20/00 at 11:23 AM,  Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>> I still have my CRC out of some sentimental attachment; 56th edition.<BR>
>><BR>
>>I still have the one I won in a high school ACS competition...don't recall<BR>
>>the edition number (shame!), but it was whatever was current in 1979.<BR>
>><BR>
<BR>
>	Lucky stiff... when I won that competition (1981) (highest score<BR>
>in the school, not overall...rats), we didn't get a prize, we just<BR>
>got to go to a neat awards banquet.<BR>
<BR>
>	I'll have to check the edition on my copy of the 'Rubber<BR>
>Handbook', but I think it is 35 (!)  My grandfather gave it to me<BR>
>when I went into chemistry.  It actually came in pretty handy as<BR>
>there is a section called "Laboratory Arts and Recepies" that was<BR>
>dropped in the more recent editions;<BR>
<BR>
I own the 48th (67/68) and was disappointed that the "Lab" section had been dropped. It has still been an awfully useful reference over the years, but I miss what isn't there.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:59:29<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: New Filks up.<BR>
<BR>
I've updated the Traveller Filk page with three new songs, two by Craig and<BR>
one by your humble webmaster.<BR>
<BR>
I ask everyone to take a few minutes to look over the songs, and let me<BR>
know which three you think should come down.  The page is getting a bit<BR>
crowded.<BR>
<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/travfilk.html<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:26:39 -0400<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:55:22 +1000<BR>
> From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
> Subject: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
> <BR>
> Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML? <BR>
<BR>
	No, you are not alone. But I feel, much in the minority. <BR>
<BR>
	I also fall into the category of those who went straight to IT,<BR>
skipping the enlivening experience of dangerous chemistry up close and<BR>
personal. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 04:17:36 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> Since you can jump from inside a "massive object" (the galaxy), there<BR>
> *has* to be some sort of density adjustment.<BR>
<BR>
As I understand it, the 10 (and 100) diameter limit is only a rule of<BR>
thumb. It holds true for massive bodies of Earth-like densities. Since<BR>
it is hard for a ship captain to measure the density of an entire<BR>
planet, the diameter is used instead. For lower densities, you could<BR>
jump closer (and the other way around).<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3091<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3092</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 24 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3092<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
re:  The Long Night<BR>
Re: New Filks up.<BR>
Re: Very odd question...<BR>
Re: New Filks up.<BR>
Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: The Long Night (Hrlaall!)<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 04:38:55 -0400<BR>
RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 04:19:42 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
Kelly St.Clair wrote:<BR>
> The difference between this and feudalism is purely a matter of semantics<BR>
> (and/or, who writes the history books).   :)<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps, since they used their technological advantage to control<BR>
others, it is even an example of a feudal technocracy...<BR>
<BR>
       *ducks for cover*<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 19:21:49 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re:  The Long Night<BR>
<BR>
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
<BR>
>I was thinking about the Vilani and it occurred to me that they might have<BR>
only colonized a few<BR>
[deletion]<BR>
<BR>
I tend to agree with Eris about the nature of the Ziru Sirka, how that<BR>
contributed to Terra's easy conquest, and what happened after the Terran<BR>
empire collapsed.  I also agree that<BR>
<BR>
>The Long Night could be a *very* interesting period of expansion and<BR>
exploration.  Dozens of<BR>
>small states would have the opportunity to expand out from their worlds<BR>
into the, almost<BR>
>uninhabited areas, surrounding them.  Scouts and adventurous merchants<BR>
would travel throughout<BR>
>sectors mixing with scouts and merchants from many other small starfaring<BR>
states.  Ethically<BR>
> challenged merchants would have ample opportunity "meet and greet" other<BR>
merchants and<BR>
>travellers travelling through regions where there was no strong policing<BR>
powers.  Then when the<BR>
>small states bump into each other you have the possibility for diplomatic<BR>
and military campaigns >on a small scale where PC's can make a difference.<BR>
<BR>
Just as our ancestors who lived during the Dark Ages did not call their<BR>
times that, people living between the Second and Third Imperia won't call it<BR>
the Long Night.  It will just be "now."<BR>
<BR>
Sylea was surely one of the players in the Long Night game that Eris<BR>
describes, and saw an opportunity to rise to a higher level.  I've never<BR>
thought of Sylea as operating in a vacuum.  It had neighbors and certainly a<BR>
lot of trade outside its zone of influence for a long time.  When it was<BR>
strong enough, it started conquering its closer and then farther neighbors.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
There is, I think, 1700 years of history to be discovered in The<BR>
Long Night.  Only how it starts and how it ends are really known to<BR>
us.  What a marvelous playground the middle would be!!!<BR>
<BR>
What do you think?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 04:23:51 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: New Filks up.<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> I ask everyone to take a few minutes to look over the songs, and let me<BR>
> know which three you think should come down.  The page is getting a bit<BR>
> crowded.<BR>
<BR>
Why do you have to remove them? I think they're all rather nice... <BR>
*sulk*<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:16:08 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:51:30<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: Very odd question...<BR>
><BR>
>Um, don't bother, since that question was asked in April.  The 6th Armored<BR>
>Cavalry Regiment is an american unit, currently in Korea.<BR>
<BR>
Huh? The last time I checked, the 6th Cavalry Brigade (Air Combat) was<BR>
stationed at Fort Hood, TX, and assigned as the III Corps aviation brigade.<BR>
The 6th Cavalry Regiment has attack helicopter squadrons stationed in<BR>
several places around the world (Korea may well be one of these; I don't<BR>
recall) but it is an historical association, not a tactical headquarters.<BR>
<BR>
There are only four armored cavalry regiments (so called) currently in the<BR>
US Army, and only two of them really fit the designation:<BR>
<BR>
3d ACR, Ft. Carson, CO<BR>
278th ACR, TNARNG<BR>
<BR>
The 2d ACR (L), is "armored" in name only; it is a fully functional cavalry<BR>
regiment, just equipped with HMMWVs instead of tanks and IFVs. I never<BR>
understood why Fort Knox insisted on leaving "armored" as part of the<BR>
designation.<BR>
<BR>
The 11th ACR isn't a cavalry outfit, or even a tactical unit, at all. It<BR>
consists of a mechanized infantry "squadron", a tank "squadron", and<BR>
assorted separate "troops", and serves as the OPFOR at the National<BR>
Training Center at Ft. Irwin, CA.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:30:52 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: New Filks up.<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 23 Sep 2000 17:59:29, "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I ask everyone to take a few minutes to look over the songs, and let me<BR>
>know which three you think should come down.  The page is getting a bit<BR>
>crowded.<BR>
<BR>
I imagine the consensus will be the same as the last time this question was <BR>
asked:  none of them!  NONE SHALL COME DOWN!<BR>
<BR>
More seriously, rather than actually deleting any of them, I strongly <BR>
recommend shunting the older/lamer/whatever ones to a second or <BR>
sub-page.  (If it's a matter of quota on your webserver, I'm sure someone <BR>
else would be glad to mirror them elsewhere.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 20:34:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Has anyone written up rules regarding orbital bombardment? What I'm<BR>
> talking about is attacking targets on a planet's surface by dropping<BR>
> large rocks (or crowbars or what-have-you) on it using orbital or<BR>
> escape velocities. (And no, I'm not talking about near-C rocks here;<BR>
> just your average meteoric/asteroidal/cometary velocities.) How is<BR>
> such an attack carried out at various tech levels?<BR>
<BR>
For smaller projectiles (up to a few hundred or few thousand tonnes)<BR>
you just have a ship grab on and boost it until the desired vector is<BR>
achieved. The ship then unclamps and changes to a safer trajectory. <BR>
<BR>
For *really* small one, the ship may have some sort of launch tube or<BR>
even self propelled projectiles. <BR>
<BR>
For *really* big ones (small asteroids) you need to attach some *big*<BR>
engines and spend some time changing its orbit to what you want. This<BR>
could take *months*.<BR>
<BR>
> How would the damage from it be calculated (ie. concussion and<BR>
> thermal effects, crater depth/diameter, etc.)?<BR>
<BR>
Just like a nuke. Except there won't be any *radioactive* fallout. <BR>
<BR>
As a rough rule of thumb, at 3 km/s, the impact energy of a body is<BR>
equal to its mass in TNT. IE a 1 kilogram projectile release the same<BR>
energy as 1 kilo of TNT. A 1 kilotonne projectile releases the energy<BR>
of a 1 kiloton nuke.<BR>
<BR>
The energy increases linearly with mass (ie twice the mass means twice<BR>
the bang). And it increases as the *square* of the velocity. So twice<BR>
as fast gives *4* times the bang. 3 times as fast gives 9 times, etc.<BR>
<BR>
If you want more exact figures:<BR>
<BR>
E = .5 * M * V^2<BR>
E = energy (joules)<BR>
M = mass (kilograms)<BR>
V = velocity (meters/second)<BR>
<BR>
1 megaton = ~4.2e15 Joules<BR>
<BR>
Let's try a 100 ton projectile at 300 km/sec (both easily achievable in<BR>
Traveller).<BR>
<BR>
100 tons = 100,000 kg <BR>
300 km/sec = 300,000 m/s<BR>
<BR>
Energy at impact = 4.5e15 Joules. Or a bit over a megaton. BTW, a 100<BR>
ton iron cube is less than 2.5 meters on a side.<BR>
<BR>
> What precautions/defenses could a planet set up to protect itself from<BR>
> such an attack?<BR>
<BR>
If the enemy has control of "high orbit", you're screwed. <BR>
<BR>
You see, for the large projectiles, it's not enough to blast them into<BR>
pieces. The pieces will continue on course and hit your upper<BR>
atmosphere, producing many of the same effects you are trying to avoid.<BR>
<BR>
Sure, they'll "burn up". But that dumps a *lot* of heat (and dust) into<BR>
the upper atmosphere. You'll get "thermal flash" like a string of<BR>
nukes. <BR>
<BR>
Smaller ones can be broken up (but figure out what it takes to break a<BR>
100 ton cube of iron into marble sized pieces... then figure out how<BR>
often you can do that compared with how often the enemy can throw cheap<BR>
hunks of asteroid at you).<BR>
<BR>
If you've got control of orbit, or if control is in dispute, then you<BR>
*may* be able to get a ship out there to *deflect* the projectile.<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind that while blasting off pieces may change the course,<BR>
there's no guarantee how much it'll change it, nor in what direction. <BR>
<BR>
You could change a strike from your well buried command center to the<BR>
rural area you evacuated all the women and children to. <BR>
<BR>
Here's more info (from the sci.space FAQ):<BR>
<BR>
    COMPUTING CRATER DIAMETERS FROM EARTH-IMPACTING ASTEROIDS<BR>
<BR>
    Astrogeologist Gene Shoemaker proposes the following formula, based on<BR>
    studies of cratering caused by nuclear tests. Units are MKS unless<BR>
    otherwise noted; impact energy is sometimes expressed in nuclear bomb<BR>
    terms (kilotons TNT equivalent) due to the origin of the model.<BR>
<BR>
    D = Sg Sp Kn W^(1/3.4)<BR>
	Crater diameter, meters. On Earth, if D > 3 km, the crater is<BR>
	assumed to collapse by a factor of 1.3 due to gravity.<BR>
<BR>
    Sg = (ge/gt)^(1/6)<BR>
	Gravity correction factor cited for craters on the Moon. May hold<BR>
	true for other bodies. ge = 9.8 m/s^2 is Earth gravity, gt is<BR>
	gravity of the target body.<BR>
<BR>
    Sp = (pa/pt)^(1/3.4)<BR>
	Density correction factor for target material relative to the Jangle<BR>
	U nuclear crater site. pa = 1.8e3 kg/m^3 (1.8 gm/cm^3) for alluvium,<BR>
	pt = density at the impact site. For reference, average rock on the<BR>
	continental shields has a density of 2.6e3 kg/m^3 (2.6 gm/cm^3).<BR>
<BR>
    Kn = 74 m / (kiloton TNT equivalent)^(1/3.4)<BR>
	Empirically determined scaling factor from bomb yield to crater<BR>
	diameter at Jangle U.<BR>
<BR>
    W = Ke / (4.185e12 joules/KT)<BR>
	Kinetic energy of asteroid, kilotons TNT equivalent.<BR>
<BR>
    Ke = 1/2 m v^2<BR>
	Kinetic energy of asteroid, joules.<BR>
<BR>
    v = impact velocity of asteroid, m/s.<BR>
	2e4 m/s (20 km/s) is common for an asteroid in an Earth-crossing<BR>
	orbit.<BR>
<BR>
    m = 4/3 pi r^3 rho<BR>
	Mass of asteroid, kg.<BR>
<BR>
    r = radius of asteroid, m<BR>
<BR>
    rho = density of asteroid, kg/m^3<BR>
	3.3e3 kg/m^3 (3 gm/cm^3) is reasonable for a common S-type asteroid.<BR>
<BR>
    For an example, let's work the body which created the 1.1 km diameter<BR>
    Barringer Meteor Crater in Arizona (in reality the model was run<BR>
    backwards from the known crater size to estimate the meteor size, but<BR>
    this is just to show how the math works):<BR>
<BR>
	r = 40 m	    Meteor radius<BR>
	rho = 7.8e3 kg/m^3  Density of nickel-iron meteor<BR>
	v = 2e4 m/s	    Impact velocity characteristic of asteroids<BR>
				in Earth-crossing orbits<BR>
	pt = 2.3e3 kg/m^3   Density of Arizona at impact site<BR>
<BR>
	Sg = 1		    No correction for impact on Earth<BR>
	Sp = (1.8/2.3)^(1/3.4) = .93<BR>
	m = 4/3 pi 40^3 7.8e3 = 2.61e8 kg<BR>
	Ke = 1/2 * 2.61e8 kg * (2e4 m/s)^2<BR>
	   = 5.22e16 joules<BR>
	W = 5.22e16 / 4.185e12 = 12,470 KT<BR>
	D = 1 * .93 * 74 * 12470^(1/3.4) = 1100 meters<BR>
<BR>
    More generally, one can use (after Gehrels, 1985):<BR>
<BR>
    Asteroid	    Number of Impact probability  Impact energy as multiple<BR>
    diameter (km)   Objects    (impacts/year)	    of Hiroshima bomb<BR>
    -------------   --------- ------------------  -------------------------<BR>
     10			10	 10e-8		    1e9 (1 billion)<BR>
      1		       1e3	 10e-6		    1e6 (1 million)<BR>
      0.1	       1e5	 10e-4		    1e3 (1 thousand)<BR>
<BR>
    The Hiroshima explosion is assumed to be 13 kilotons.<BR>
<BR>
    Finally, a back of the envelope rule is that an object moving at a speed<BR>
    of 3 km/s has kinetic energy equal to the explosive energy of an equal<BR>
    mass of TNT; thus a 10 ton asteroid moving at 30 km/sec would have an<BR>
    impact energy of (10 ton) (30 km/sec / 3 km/sec)^2 = 1 KT.<BR>
<BR>
    References:<BR>
<BR>
    Clark Chapman and David Morrison, "Cosmic Catastrophes", Plenum Press<BR>
	1989, ISBN 0-306-43163-7.<BR>
<BR>
    Gehrels, T. 1985 Asteroids and comets. _Physics Today_ 38, 32-41. [an<BR>
	excellent general overview of the subject for the layman]<BR>
<BR>
    Shoemaker, E.M. 1983 Asteroid and comet bombardment of the earth. _Ann.<BR>
	Rev. Earth Planet. Sci._ 11, 461-494. [very long and fairly<BR>
	technical but a comprehensive examination of the<BR>
	 subject]<BR>
<BR>
    Shoemaker, E.M., J.G. Williams, E.F. Helin & R.F. Wolfe 1979<BR>
	Earth-crossing asteroids: Orbital classes, collision rates with<BR>
	Earth, and origin. In _Asteroids_, T. Gehrels, ed., pp. 253-282,<BR>
	University of Arizona Press, Tucson.<BR>
<BR>
    Cunningham, C.J. 1988 _Introduction to Asteroids: The Next Frontier_<BR>
	(Richmond: Willman-Bell, Inc.) [covers all aspects of asteroid<BR>
	studies and is an excellent introduction to the subject for people<BR>
	of all experience levels. It also has a very extensive reference<BR>
	list covering essentially all of the reference material in the<BR>
	field.]<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:38:42 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> As a rough rule of thumb, at 3 km/s, the impact energy of a body is<BR>
> equal to its mass in TNT. IE a 1 kilogram projectile release the same<BR>
> energy as 1 kilo of TNT. A 1 kilotonne projectile releases the energy<BR>
> of a 1 kiloton nuke.<BR>
> <BR>
> The energy increases linearly with mass (ie twice the mass means twice<BR>
> the bang). And it increases as the *square* of the velocity. So twice<BR>
> as fast gives *4* times the bang. 3 times as fast gives 9 times, etc.<BR>
> <BR>
> If you want more exact figures:<BR>
> <BR>
> E = .5 * M * V^2<BR>
> E = energy (joules)<BR>
> M = mass (kilograms)<BR>
> V = velocity (meters/second)<BR>
> <BR>
> 1 megaton = ~4.2e15 Joules<BR>
> <BR>
> Let's try a 100 ton projectile at 300 km/sec (both easily achievable in<BR>
> Traveller).<BR>
> <BR>
> 100 tons = 100,000 kg<BR>
> 300 km/sec = 300,000 m/s<BR>
> <BR>
> Energy at impact = 4.5e15 Joules. Or a bit over a megaton. BTW, a 100<BR>
> ton iron cube is less than 2.5 meters on a side.<BR>
<BR>
To calculate the energy of an orbital-velocity body impacting the Earth,<BR>
go to the following Web site:<BR>
<BR>
http://janus.astro.umd.edu/astro/impact.html<BR>
<BR>
Note that the highest allowed velocity on this site's calculator is 72.8<BR>
km/sec for Earth impacts.<BR>
<BR>
Using an iron asteroid 2.5 meters in diameter (roughly equivalent to<BR>
Leonard's 100-ton projectile), at 72 km/sec, the site gave me the<BR>
following readout:<BR>
<BR>
RESULT: Explosion 5-20 km Above Australia in Oceania!<BR>
<BR>
Energy Released = 40 KT (KiloTons of TNT) <BR>
(Hiroshima & Nagasaki Atomic Bombs: 20 KT)<BR>
<BR>
A collision this large occurs roughly once every 3 years.<BR>
<BR>
If I double the diameter (thus increasing the mass by a factor of 8,<BR>
IIRC), I increase the "yield" to 316 kilotons.  At this size, the iron<BR>
asteroid still breaks up in the atmosphere, at an altitude of 5-20 km. <BR>
Increasing the diameter to 25 meters (which should increase the mass by<BR>
a factor of 1000, to 100,000 tons), I get the following results:<BR>
<BR>
RESULT: Impact into Yugoslovia in Europe!<BR>
<BR>
Energy Released = 40 MT (MegaTons of TNT) <BR>
(Largest Nuclear Weapon: 100 MT)<BR>
<BR>
QUAKE!! Magnitude 6.7 (largest recorded Earthquake: 9.5) <BR>
<BR>
Crater Diameter: 1.1 km <BR>
Crater Depth: 0.2 km <BR>
<BR>
A collision this large occurs roughly once every 750 years.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 22:03:05 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Pinkerdoo is proud to announce the release of<BR>
> <BR>
> the Striker Design Sheet Version 1.1 (beta) is now available at<BR>
> http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, 15 Tl12 designs (that are for sale from Tributis Corp.) are now<BR>
> available for download.<BR>
<BR>
Excellent stuff. Please keep up the good work.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 02:06:27 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:11:02 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>>>Getting out is easy. After all, Jump drive is FTL... :-)<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>> Perhaps I'm missing something but if the penalty for attempting to<BR>
>> jump within 10 diameters of a massive object is almost certain to<BR>
>> result in a catastrophic (IE ship destroyed) mis-jump wouldn't<BR>
>> jumping from *inside* a massive object be enough to guarentee<BR>
>> destruction?<BR>
><BR>
>Since you can jump from inside a "massive object" (the galaxy), there<BR>
>*has* to be some sort of density adjustment.<BR>
<BR>
*** Warning Amatuer Cosmologist Allert ***<BR>
It's very likely in the next few paragraphs that<BR>
I will be using many technical astronomical terms<BR>
in a totaly uninformed and inacurate way.<BR>
So sue me.<BR>
*** End Warning Resume Normal Post ***<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Okay this is going to sound frightfully naive but...<BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't have thought of the *galaxy* as a single object.<BR>
It's a whole bunch of massive objects that revolve arround a common<BR>
focci.<BR>
<BR>
I think this has to be a qualitatively different thing than a black hole<BR>
which is a single object of incredible mass. My gut feeling is that the<BR>
black hole would have to interfere with jump in the same way as any<BR>
other stellar body (100 Diameters safe distance et al.) the galaxy as<BR>
a whole would not exert this same phenomenon because most of the<BR>
galaxy is in fact void of objects large enough to cast a noticable<BR>
100 Diameter shadow. (Quick what's the 100D limit for a hydrogen<BR>
atom)<BR>
<BR>
At this point you'll probably spout some nonesense about all of a<BR>
black hole's mass being made up of individual component bits of<BR>
ultracompressed degenerate matter or somesuch physicist imagined<BR>
mumbo jumbo to prove that the mater of a black hole however<BR>
densely packed is still almost a total vacuum but I'm having none of it.<BR>
<BR>
Oh and even if your supposition of equivelency between galaxies and<BR>
black holes is indeed correct this doesn't show that you could use a<BR>
jump drive to escape a black hole without some kind of evidence that<BR>
it's possible to jump outside of the "event horizon" of the galaxy.<BR>
To the best of my knowledge no one has yet accomplished<BR>
*intergalactic* travel by means of jump drive.<BR>
<BR>
But seriously my gut feel for this is that a black hole starts at it's<BR>
event horizon and since within the confines of the event horizon<BR>
you are most definitely also within the 10D limit a jump from within<BR>
a black hole would have to be the near suicidal exercise we all<BR>
know it to be. All of course assuming that you could in fact survive<BR>
the tidal stress of crossing the event horizon and that once within<BR>
the bounds of the black hole you don't immediately get rendered<BR>
down to some form of ultracompact degenerate matter. Or<BR>
something else.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"She came from Planet Claire<BR>
 I knew she came from there<BR>
 She drove a Plymouth Satellite<BR>
 Faster than the speed of light"<BR>
  - B-52's<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 02:42:37 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Long Night (Hrlaall!)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:22:33 -0400<BR>
>From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Don't tell anyone, but I have been running Hivers ops trying to create<BR>
>enough interest in a milieu sourcebook in this exact vein.  Certain VIPs<BR>
>like the idea, but polling data does not support my position... yet.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well if the polling data your refering to is the Millieu poll from Marc's<BR>
website you have to understand that the way the question is formed<BR>
you can only vote for your favorite.<BR>
<BR>
It puts me in mind of the story of Themistocles...<BR>
<BR>
(I quote now from "the cartoon history of the universe" by Larry Gonick<BR>
formatting and punctuation from the comic book)<BR>
<BR>
   finally, the commanders<BR>
   who had fought at salamis<BR>
   met to divide the loot<BR>
   and award a prize to the<BR>
   most valiant man of the<BR>
   campaign. In the voting,<BR>
   it seems, everyone put<BR>
   himself first and<BR>
   Themistocles second -<BR>
   and so no prize was<BR>
   Given!!<BR>
<BR>
I'm assuming that Mr Gonicks source for that anecdote is<BR>
Herrodotus so you have to take it with a little grain of salt<BR>
but it points out the problem tremendously. Given a choice<BR>
of twenty or so products (all of which I would buy in an instant)<BR>
and having to choose only one means that I have to choose<BR>
against the other 19 worthy contenders.<BR>
<BR>
Also I've always kind of looked at the long night as a lot like<BR>
the dark age at the end of the Mycenean period when the<BR>
Myce. appear to have gone from a reasonably stable Fuedal<BR>
like setup to a bunch of freebooting oportunists. (Cases in<BR>
point the Trojan War and the Hyksos invasion of Egypt.)<BR>
<BR>
You've got all of the Rule of Man fleets jumping from system<BR>
to system collecting "taxes" and "recruiting" whilst the planets<BR>
they prey upon are becoming less and less able to support<BR>
the payment of the danegeld. Trade slows to a crawl and<BR>
except in rare cases stops entirely. It took mediteranean<BR>
civilization about 700 years to recover from that so the<BR>
time frame for the Long Night seems about right.<BR>
<BR>
Of course as I look back at the last to paragraphs they<BR>
strike me as painfully obvious but I'll leave them in in<BR>
case they spark more learned and interesting analysis.<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"She came from Planet Claire<BR>
 I knew she came from there<BR>
 She drove a Plymouth Satellite<BR>
 Faster than the speed of light"<BR>
  - B-52's<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 00:14:06 -0700<BR>
From: Jim Cooper <tloql@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >> I am currently working on the Astron, Theta Boriallis(sp), and the Fulani but I have used the alternative system for sector generation from the "Galactic" program, fewer 0 pop high tech worlds that way.<g> I used the dot map locations and generated the data.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >As I am (slowly) trying to work on the Iykaiser (Theron) sector, would you be interested in sharing thoughts as you go along.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Jim Cooper<BR>
><BR>
> Yes I would like to, could you refresh my memory cells is Thoron in relation to the sectors?<BR>
<BR>
Theron is sector rimward of Fulani, Trialing of Theta Borealis and rimward trailing of Astron. It is Spin-rimward from Vanguard Reaches and Spinward from Iphigenaia.<BR>
<BR>
Jim Cooper<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 04:38:55 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 04:38:55 -0400<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Check with your local liquor control board. I'll merely note that<BR>
>O'Douls and the like get locked up at the same time as the rest of the<BR>
>alcohol at the places that are open all night, and they don't sell it<BR>
>to minors...<BR>
<BR>
That's odd. Around these parts O'Doul's is frequently sold in places which<BR>
don't sell alcoholic beverages (such as supermarkets) and may be sold to<BR>
people under 21. This is because Pennsylvania, regulates beverages<BR>
containing more than 0.5% alcohol by volume. I did a few minutes of<BR>
searching, and it appears as if the same practice is followed in lots of<BR>
other states, including Oregon. Now, I may be wrong - and if that's the<BR>
case, I apologize in advance - but I seem to remember that you live in<BR>
Oregon.<BR>
<BR>
O'Doul's typically runs in the 0.3% to 0.4% range, which puts it in the<BR>
non-alcoholic beverage category  (at least as far as I can tell) across the<BR>
United States.<BR>
<BR>
It's interesting to note that many fruit juices fall within the same range<BR>
as O'Doul's!<BR>
<BR>
For some reason I can't shake the mental image of a very young child trying<BR>
to get his hands on "the hard stuff": 1 proof fruit juice. :)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: As I discovered tonight, sifting through alcohol laws can be a<BR>
little confusing. The nature of the Third Imperium is such that individual<BR>
worlds are allowed to come up with their own laws with respect to trade,<BR>
taxation and regulation.<BR>
<BR>
This could cause all sorts of trouble for free traders.<BR>
<BR>
"What do you mean I can't sell this Sylean apple juice without an expensive<BR>
special license and a 20% alcohol tax? That's robbery!"<BR>
<BR>
"Huh? What do you mean I'm going to jail for drug trafficking? There must be<BR>
some mistake, officer, these drums are full of plain ol' orange juice!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 05:26:53 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Light-bee? That must be something I missed... or that they haven't<BR>
>gotten into yet.<BR>
<BR>
You didn't miss it. The light bee simply doesn't exist in series one. In the<BR>
Red Dwarf universe, the light bee is a little hologram projector. It zips<BR>
around and generates Rimmer's image. In the real world, the light bee is a<BR>
handwave to explain away a few minor continuity errors and to give the<BR>
authors the freedom to have Rimmer move about outside of the Red Dwarf like<BR>
a normal person.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 05:50:05 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: As I discovered tonight, sifting through alcohol laws can be a<BR>
> little confusing. The nature of the Third Imperium is such that individual<BR>
> worlds are allowed to come up with their own laws with respect to trade,<BR>
> taxation and regulation.<BR>
><BR>
> This could cause all sorts of trouble for free traders.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think so.  At least not at TL8-9 and above.<BR>
It should be a routine matter to download the local<BR>
laws (if you don't them ahead of time, which I would<BR>
expect to be the norm), and let the software sort it<BR>
out for you.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 06:14:11 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
John Groth wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> To calculate the energy of an orbital-velocity body impacting the Earth,<BR>
> go to the following Web site:<BR>
><BR>
> http://janus.astro.umd.edu/astro/impact.html<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Cool.<BR>
<BR>
I'm getting the impression that if you wanted to,<BR>
you could have an 'orbital gun', for more precise<BR>
strikes.  For example, say I'm in orbit and I want<BR>
to really cripple a world, or a portion thereof, but<BR>
I want to minimize collateral damage.  Instead of<BR>
bombing the target into the stoneage, I want to<BR>
totally destroy key infrastructure elements: starports,<BR>
bridges, power plants, etc. Say 5 kilotons at impact.<BR>
<BR>
Is this feasible?<BR>
<BR>
Is there an easy way to calculate what is necessary<BR>
back from the desired kilotonnage?<BR>
<BR>
What is the highest velocity I could put on my<BR>
'bullet'?<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3092<BR>
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Date:	9/24/00 3:19:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 24 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3093<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe<BR>
SF mascots<BR>
new filks<BR>
Re: unsubscribe<BR>
Re: Very odd question...<BR>
Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
Re: Trade route tables from 1st Ed. Traveller<BR>
Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
Possible Trademark violation<BR>
Re:Alcohol laws <BR>
Re: Usingou/Ziafrplians Sector<BR>
Regal class battle cruiser<BR>
Re: Regal class battle cruiser<BR>
Re: Regal class battle cruiser<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
RE: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
Bloody Terrans<BR>
Re: Very odd question...<BR>
Re: SF mascots<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 07:40:10 EDT<BR>
From: Olegamer@aol.com<BR>
Subject: unsubscribe<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe<BR>
<BR>
Apparently I am doing this wrong....could someone give me a clue. <BR>
<BR>
Thanks. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 07:41:52 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: SF mascots<BR>
<BR>
>But who or what is "Weasel"?<BR>
<BR>
It's an insult to the weasel family, refering to Wesley (i.e. He who should <BR>
be turned into a small white dodecahedron and spaced).<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot<BR>
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.<BR>
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 07:44:19 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: new filks<BR>
<BR>
I'd vote for Filk page 1, filk page 2 rather than removing filks.<BR>
<BR>
Webspace is rather cheap.<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"Sucessful Termanation of OPFOR Capabilities, re: Life Sustaining<BR>
Operations; Originating from a Departure Line Orientated to the Vertical<BR>
of the Main Battle Area."  --  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 06:49:14 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: unsubscribe<BR>
<BR>
Olegamer@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> unsubscribe<BR>
> <BR>
> Apparently I am doing this wrong....could someone give me a clue.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Try sending your unsusbscribe message to majordomo@lists.ient.com.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 09:40:23 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
Regards the 3d ACR, I didn't know that they are currently at Ft. Carson, CO<BR>
but I served with them when they were at Ft. Bliss in the late 70's.  Their<BR>
patch is a golden trumpet on a green field.  At that time they wore black<BR>
berets and brown leather belts with large oval US metalic buckels.  Brave<BR>
Rifles, Blood and Steel, Aheeeeeeha<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 08:37:17 -0600<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
<BR>
At 10:18 pm 9/23/00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 10:55:10 +1200<BR>
>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
>> The ISSCB was created to stop buggy shipboard software. Could you<BR>
imagine the<BR>
<BR>
>No need for it, we can do it now. Look at what Shuttle Software<BR>
Systems <BR>
>produces (I think they are up to 17 defects in 45,000,000 lines of<BR>
code). If <BR>
>you have this level of discipline in contruction, theres no need for<BR>
such <BR>
>extensive testing<BR>
<BR>
See www.fastcompany.com/online/06/writestuff.htm (.html?) for an<BR>
article on this...<BR>
<BR>
	"The last three versions of the program--each 420,000 lines<BR>
long--had just one error each. The last 11 versions of ths software<BR>
had a total of 17 errors. Commercial programs of this complexity<BR>
would have 5,000 errors." And Microsoft Windows ...<BR>
<BR>
	Anyway, it's a good article about the *process* and mindset that<BR>
produces such code.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better." <BR>
   So I installed Linux ...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:45:26 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Trade route tables from 1st Ed. Traveller<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 8:14 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Trade route tables from 1st Ed. Traveller<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > Does anyone have the trade route generation tables from first edition<BR>
> > Traveller?<BR>
><BR>
> World              Jump Distance<BR>
> Pair     Jump-1   Jump-2   Jump-3   Jump-4<BR>
> A-A        1        2        4        5<BR>
> A-B        1        3        4        5<BR>
> A-C        1        4        6        -<BR>
> A-D        1        5        -        -<BR>
> A-E        2        -        -        -<BR>
> B-B        1        3        4        6<BR>
> B-C        2        4        6        -<BR>
> B-D        3        6        -        -<BR>
> B-E        4        -        -        -<BR>
> C-C        3        6        -        -<BR>
> C-D        4        -        -        -<BR>
> C-E        4        -        -        -<BR>
> D-D        4        -        -        -<BR>
> D-E        5        -        -        -<BR>
> E-E        6        -        -        -<BR>
<BR>
Of course, strictly speaking that is the x-boat route table... I don't<BR>
actually recall any *trade* route tables from CT though, so the above will<BR>
at least show principal communication routes...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 07:43:55 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Thing <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> No need for it, we can do it now. Look at what Shuttle Software Systems <BR>
> produces (I think they are up to 17 defects in 45,000,000 lines of code). If <BR>
> you have this level of discipline in contruction, theres no need for such <BR>
> extensive testing.<BR>
<BR>
That can be falacious truism.  Even code complete warns against the true<BR>
statement "We don't need to do alot of testing because we won't find many<BR>
bugs."  Zero defects and zero downtime are supposedly achievable goals but<BR>
are very expensive.  You need to minimize changes from the known good<BR>
version and test the hell out of anything that does change.  And then you<BR>
put in redundant systems to make up for things you do change.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
ThingUnderTheStairs<BR>
==================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 16:48:44 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
> I'm getting the impression that if you wanted to,<BR>
> you could have an 'orbital gun', for more precise<BR>
> strikes.<BR>
<BR>
As people have pointed out before me, deploying this gun without having<BR>
it shot down by orbital defense is the big problem. Once you are in<BR>
position and safe from retaliation strikes, you will have no problems.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Instead of<BR>
> bombing the target into the stoneage, I want to<BR>
> totally destroy key infrastructure elements: starports,<BR>
> bridges, power plants, etc. Say 5 kilotons at impact.<BR>
> <BR>
> Is this feasible?<BR>
<BR>
You'd just have to regulate the mass and velocity of your 'bullet' to<BR>
give the desired effect at impact. Very doable using a low-tech<BR>
calculator (or even pen and paper)... and a mass driver.<BR>
<BR>
> Is there an easy way to calculate what is necessary<BR>
> back from the desired kilotonnage?<BR>
<BR>
Just reverse the formulas (provided by someone else in an earlier post).<BR>
<BR>
> What is the highest velocity I could put on my<BR>
> 'bullet'?<BR>
<BR>
0.999[...] times c<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 17:10:20 CEST<BR>
From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
This message has been sent both to the TML and Marc Miller.<BR>
<BR>
When I was looking at the olympics I spotted a commersial for a swedish <BR>
computer game called Traveller. Is this a violation of the Traveller <BR>
trademark (I'm no expert on copyright laws)?<BR>
<BR>
Patrik Holmstrm<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 08:35:45 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re:Alcohol laws <BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Steve Daniels wrote<BR>
<BR>
> Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > ObTrav: As I discovered tonight, sifting through alcohol laws can be a<BR>
> > little confusing. The nature of the Third Imperium is such that individual<BR>
> > worlds are allowed to come up with their own laws with respect to trade,<BR>
> > taxation and regulation.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > This could cause all sorts of trouble for free traders.<BR>
> <BR>
> I don't think so.  At least not at TL8-9 and above.<BR>
> It should be a routine matter to download the local<BR>
> laws (if you don't them ahead of time, which I would<BR>
> expect to be the norm), and let the software sort it<BR>
> out for you.<BR>
<BR>
Not if the fees and fines (and bribes) are a sizeable revenue stream for<BR>
the local government.<BR>
<BR>
You: "here's all the forms and fees for this cargo. As you can see I've<BR>
got the 2% special tax on the denebian orange juice, and have filled out<BR>
form AX3488/h1 pre your statutes 345.678b and a." You stand there smugly, <BR>
knowing that LingLegal 4.57 (TM) has saved your butt again!<BR>
<BR>
Border agent: "Oh dear. You got that information from the law download,<BR>
didn't you." <BR>
<BR>
She looks at you pityingly. "I've been _telling_ them to upgrade it more<BR>
often than the decennial census, but do they listen to a poor old<BR>
underpaid agent in the field? <belushi> Nooooooooo</belushi>"<BR>
<BR>
Agent shakes her head. "I'm afraid the special tax is now 78%, and there<BR>
are more forms to fill out..."<BR>
<BR>
She reaches behind her for a stack of paper. "And just last month they<BR>
imposed an emergency six month safety quarantine on all agricultural<BR>
products. You'll have to offload your cargo over there."<BR>
<BR>
She points to a tin shed baking in the sun out on the tarmac. You had<BR>
wondered where that _smell_ had been coming from. Obviously there's no<BR>
refrigeration in the quarantine shed.<BR>
<BR>
She looks at you again, pointedly.<BR>
<BR>
You sigh, remembering the seventeen pages of fine print disclaimers that<BR>
came with LingLegal(TM), reach into your pocket and start hauling out<BR>
cash. "Maybe there's something we could do here..."<BR>
<BR>
The agent smiles brightly. "Why yes, I think we can."<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:42:21 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Usingou/Ziafrplians Sector<BR>
<BR>
John Wood sez:<BR>
<BR>
>More information can be found at GypsyComet's Zhodani Files Site,<BR>
>http://members.aol.com/gypsycomet/ziafrdot.html.<BR>
>Note that a couple of world positions on the dot map don't agree with<BR>
>mine; I have followed V&V where I can see a difference.<BR>
<BR>
 Mine came down where they did based on a lot of squinting at the same map. <BR>
There is a subtle but misleading horizontal shift across the polity borders <BR>
that I found particularly annoying, and some of our differences may be due to <BR>
different reads on that (I started on the Consulate side and worked to <BR>
trailing).<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:40:54 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Regal class battle cruiser<BR>
<BR>
Having misplaced my copy of Trillion Credit Squadron could someone have a<BR>
look at the Regal and let me know if it had a hull number shown?<BR>
<BR>
Also for those who are interested I have done a FFS1 version of the Regal<BR>
and posted it on my site. The vessel ex-Imperic Splendour serves as the<BR>
Alston Alliances highport.<BR>
<BR>
It can be found by following the links from www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR>
<BR>
Anyone want any other designs while it seems I am back in design mode.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:00:27 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Regal class battle cruiser<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Having misplaced my copy of Trillion Credit Squadron could someone have a<BR>
> look at the Regal and let me know if it had a hull number shown?<BR>
<BR>
From page 20, _Regal's_ hull number is BC-8079.<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 09:06:59 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Regal class battle cruiser<BR>
<BR>
Could you do the Tigress?  She seems like a handful to tackle in FF&S.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- Antony Farrell <Skaran@bigpond.com> wrote:<BR>
> Having misplaced my copy of Trillion Credit Squadron could someone<BR>
> have a<BR>
> look at the Regal and let me know if it had a hull number shown?<BR>
> <BR>
> Also for those who are interested I have done a FFS1 version of the<BR>
> Regal<BR>
> and posted it on my site. The vessel ex-Imperic Splendour serves as<BR>
> the<BR>
> Alston Alliances highport.<BR>
> <BR>
> It can be found by following the links from<BR>
> www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR>
> <BR>
> Anyone want any other designs while it seems I am back in design<BR>
> mode.<BR>
> <BR>
> Antony<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 09:26:52 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
>From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
>Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
...<BR>
>>  Terran _rule_, but Terran culture and values? Traditional Vilani values<BR>
>>being eroded I can see - as they doubtless must have been by the series of<BR>
...<BR>
>Any Vilani who wanted to do well in life under the Rule of Man would<BR>
>need to learn English, mingle with Terrans, perhaps marry a Terran,<BR>
>send his children to Terran schools - which is how you end up with a<BR>
<BR>
  A slow process though, and probably unlikely to remove Vilani culture <BR>
from those worlds much removed from Terra in the short span of the <BR>
Ramshackle Empire.<BR>
<BR>
>planet like Sylea having a self-described "Solomani" population of<BR>
>more than one person in ten by Year 0.  I doubt they were *all*<BR>
>descendants of Planetary Governor Lieutenant J. Smith, TCN.<BR>
<BR>
  All of which explains why in M:1100 you have frustrated Solomani<BR>
supremacists discovering that their family history of being pure<BR>
Solomani is a myth based on someone toadying up to the invading<BR>
incompetents back around the mid third millenium...<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:32:36 -0500<BR>
From: "Derek Dees" <djdees@mm.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
Nope, you're not alone. However, I've enough friends with military<BR>
experience that they correct me when I'm wildly wrong and then loan me the<BR>
books and manuals so I can understand why.<BR>
<BR>
I return the favor when it comes to computer stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Derek<BR>
djdees@mm.com<BR>
http://www.mm.com/user/djdees<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Paul Harris<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 8:55 PM<BR>
To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>
Subject: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML? I<BR>
tried to join the Reserves once, but was rejected!<BR>
Yes, I was honest, and told the good Doctor I was 'mildly' asthmatic. I<BR>
did try a second time, after friends already in the reserves told me to<BR>
'lie my a**e off.' Which I proceeded to do. Unluckily I had the same<BR>
doctor, who remebered me.... grot! Of course he still tried to help me<BR>
get in, but my regular GP wouldn't co-operate... probably just as well<BR>
anyway... my asthma worsened a couple of years later... double grot!<BR>
<BR>
Still, it's good to see the wealth of military experience here... love<BR>
the little anecdotes... even if some do go over my head!<BR>
<BR>
As a side note, my wife has commented that since she started playing<BR>
traveller, she understands what is meant by APC and LAW, TAC Missile and<BR>
other military terminology.<BR>
<BR>
Oh... and I met her at a traveller game.... she ended up marrying the<BR>
ref! <grin> Our son is only nine months, but I am already teaching him<BR>
to roll dice!<BR>
<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:18:56 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Bloody Terrans<BR>
<BR>
At 09:26 AM 9/24/00 -0700, someone wrote:<BR>
>>planet like Sylea having a self-described "Solomani" population of<BR>
>>more than one person in ten by Year 0.  I doubt they were *all*<BR>
>>descendants of Planetary Governor Lieutenant J. Smith, TCN.<BR>
><BR>
>  All of which explains why in M:1100 you have frustrated Solomani<BR>
>supremacists discovering that their family history of being pure<BR>
>Solomani is a myth based on someone toadying up to the invading<BR>
>incompetents back around the mid third millenium...<BR>
><BR>
>        Steven Hudson<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
When leads me to visualize a bunch of Vilani sitting around in furs,<BR>
chainmail, and horned helmets singing, "SPAM, SPAM, SPAM..."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 10:28:48<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
At 11:16 PM 9/23/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
>>Um, don't bother, since that question was asked in April.  The 6th Armored<BR>
>>Cavalry Regiment is an american unit, currently in Korea.<BR>
><BR>
>Huh? The last time I checked, the 6th Cavalry Brigade (Air Combat) was<BR>
>stationed at Fort Hood, TX, and assigned as the III Corps aviation brigade.<BR>
>The 6th Cavalry Regiment has attack helicopter squadrons stationed in<BR>
>several places around the world (Korea may well be one of these; I don't<BR>
>recall) but it is an historical association, not a tactical headquarters.<BR>
<BR>
6th Cavalry Regiment ("Fighting 6th")<BR>
      1st Squadron   (RA, Av, 6th CB(CbtAv))(Wonju, SK)<BR>
      2nd Squadron   (RA, AtkHel, 11th AvRegt) (Illesheim, Ger)<BR>
      3rd Squadron   (RA, Av, 6th CB(CbtAv))(Wonju, SK)<BR>
      4th Squadron   (RA, IA)<BR>
      5th Squadron   (RA, IA)<BR>
      6th Squadron   (RA, AtkHel, 11th AvRegt) (Illesheim, Ger)<BR>
      7th Squadron   (AR, Av, 90th RSC)(Conroe, TX)<BR>
<BR>
That's the best information I copuld find on the web, I bow to any<BR>
information you have, Major, since you are more current than I am.<BR>
<BR>
The original reason for the question was I wanted to us the patch (for the<BR>
unicorn) but didn't want to wear anything from an active unit.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, the joys of military-SF costuming.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:43:25 -0500<BR>
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrod@santech.com><BR>
Subject: Re: SF mascots<BR>
<BR>
At 07:41 AM 9/24/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>It's an insult to the weasel family, refering to Wesley (i.e. He who <BR>
>should be turned into a small white dodecahedron and spaced).<BR>
You forgot crushed first, then spaced.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jimmy Simpson<BR>
       nimrodd@mail.com<BR>
<BR>
"You can get more with a kind word<BR>
      and a 2 x 4,<BR>
than you can with just a kind word."<BR>
                          -Marcus Cole (Babylon 5)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:06:58 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>>>Getting out is easy. After all, Jump drive is FTL... :-)<BR>
>>><BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Perhaps I'm missing something but if the penalty for attempting to<BR>
>>> jump within 10 diameters of a massive object is almost certain to<BR>
>>> result in a catastrophic (IE ship destroyed) mis-jump wouldn't<BR>
>>> jumping from *inside* a massive object be enough to guarentee<BR>
>>> destruction?<BR>
>><BR>
>>Since you can jump from inside a "massive object" (the galaxy), there<BR>
>>*has* to be some sort of density adjustment.<BR>
><BR>
> *** Warning Amatuer Cosmologist Allert ***<BR>
> It's very likely in the next few paragraphs that<BR>
> I will be using many technical astronomical terms<BR>
> in a totaly uninformed and inacurate way.<BR>
> So sue me.<BR>
> *** End Warning Resume Normal Post ***<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Okay this is going to sound frightfully naive but...<BR>
><BR>
> I wouldn't have thought of the *galaxy* as a single object.<BR>
> It's a whole bunch of massive objects that revolve arround a common<BR>
> focci.<BR>
<BR>
They don't even do that to any great extent. Orbits get weird when the<BR>
"orbiting" mass is *inside* the collection of mass sources generating<BR>
the overall field. For example, the overall field *drops* as you<BR>
approach the center.<BR>
<BR>
> I think this has to be a qualitatively different thing than a black hole<BR>
> which is a single object of incredible mass.<BR>
<BR>
You missed the earlier posts. The black hole in question is a galaxy or<BR>
(or larger collection of stars) with them all close enough that the<BR>
overall field results in an event horizon a few hundred or thousand<BR>
parsecs out.<BR>
<BR>
The idea being that the larger a black hole gets, the *lower* its<BR>
density. make one big enough, and the density is essentially a vacuum. <BR>
<BR>
> My gut feeling is that the<BR>
> black hole would have to interfere with jump in the same way as any<BR>
> other stellar body (100 Diameters safe distance et al.) the galaxy as<BR>
> a whole would not exert this same phenomenon because most of the<BR>
> galaxy is in fact void of objects large enough to cast a noticable<BR>
> 100 Diameter shadow. (Quick what's the 100D limit for a hydrogen<BR>
> atom)<BR>
<BR>
Depends on how you figure "100 diameters". Is that an absolute, or is<BR>
it a "rule of thumb" that works for planets. <BR>
<BR>
If it's a rule of thumb, it turns out to be a near perfect match for<BR>
the way tidal forces work. At 100 diameters from objects of the same<BR>
density, the tidal forces will be the same. They drop as the *cube* of<BR>
the distance. <BR>
<BR>
> At this point you'll probably spout some nonesense about all of a<BR>
> black hole's mass being made up of individual component bits of<BR>
> ultracompressed degenerate matter or somesuch physicist imagined<BR>
> mumbo jumbo to prove that the mater of a black hole however<BR>
> densely packed is still almost a total vacuum but I'm having none of it.<BR>
<BR>
Too bad. Because that's the way the universe works. A *big* black hole<BR>
*does* have the density of a good vacuum. Of course, we are talking<BR>
about a black hole the size of the universe, but still...<BR>
<BR>
> But seriously my gut feel for this is that a black hole starts at it's<BR>
> event horizon and since within the confines of the event horizon<BR>
<BR>
*Which* event horizon? A spinning (or charged) black hole has more than<BR>
one. And you *can* escape from inside some of them. That's how the<BR>
schemes for extracting energy from a black hole work.<BR>
<BR>
> you are most definitely also within the 10D limit a jump from within<BR>
> a black hole would have to be the near suicidal exercise we all<BR>
> know it to be. All of course assuming that you could in fact survive<BR>
> the tidal stress of crossing the event horizon and that once within<BR>
> the bounds of the black hole you don't immediately get rendered<BR>
> down to some form of ultracompact degenerate matter. Or<BR>
> something else.<BR>
<BR>
<sigh><BR>
<BR>
You *really* need to do the math on all this. The whole *point* is that<BR>
with a galactic *mass* black hole, the tidal forces are *minor*. Else<BR>
the ship wouldn't survive going in. <BR>
<BR>
And such a hole can consist of densely clustered *stars*, it doesn't<BR>
have to be a single monolithic mass.<BR>
<BR>
Sure, there are factors that'd make it unlikely as all hell that they'd<BR>
stay seperate. And make it unlikely our heroes could even try to<BR>
escape. <BR>
<BR>
But the basic situation *doesn't* make it impossible.<BR>
<BR>
ps. Anybody got the formula for calculating the Schwarzchild radius as<BR>
a funtion of mass handy? I can't find the book right now...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:42:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm getting the impression that if you wanted to,<BR>
> you could have an 'orbital gun', for more precise<BR>
> strikes.  For example, say I'm in orbit and I want<BR>
> to really cripple a world, or a portion thereof, but<BR>
> I want to minimize collateral damage.  Instead of<BR>
> bombing the target into the stoneage, I want to<BR>
> totally destroy key infrastructure elements: starports,<BR>
> bridges, power plants, etc. Say 5 kilotons at impact.<BR>
><BR>
> Is this feasible?<BR>
<BR>
Easily. <BR>
<BR>
> Is there an easy way to calculate what is necessary<BR>
> back from the desired kilotonnage?<BR>
<BR>
Sure. 5 kilotons is 1/200th of a meagaton. 1 megaton = 4.2e15 Joules.<BR>
So 5 kilotons = 21e12 Joules. Going back to the formula for kinetic<BR>
energy: Ke = .5 * M * V^2<BR>
<BR>
21e12 = .5 * M * V^2<BR>
42e12 = M * V^2<BR>
<BR>
pick a convenient mass and you'll get the velocity. Pick a convenient<BR>
velocity, and you get the mass required.<BR>
<BR>
Let's go with the 100 ton projectile I used before. 100 tonnes is 100e3<BR>
kg.<BR>
<BR>
42e12 = 100e3 * V^2<BR>
420e6 = V^2<BR>
20.5e3 = V<BR>
<BR>
So you'll get a 5 kt yield from a 100 ton mass impacting at 20.5 km/sec.<BR>
<BR>
In real life, you need to correct for the velocity increase from the<BR>
planet's gravity, and for the velocity lost due to atmospheric friction.<BR>
<BR>
At 1 g, it takes 2050 seconds to reach 20.5 km/sec. That's 34:10. At 6<BR>
g, it takes 1/6th the time call it 342 seconds or 5:42.<BR>
<BR>
> What is the highest velocity I could put on my<BR>
> 'bullet'?<BR>
<BR>
Well, the longer you accelerate, the higher the velocity. But the<BR>
increased time also requires increased precision in aiming, as at<BR>
higher speeds it's hard to correct errors. <BR>
<BR>
A week at 6g gives you 12% of light speed (36,288 km/sec). You won't be<BR>
able to target things precisely, but then again. at that velocity, you<BR>
don't *need* to. 6.4 kilos at that velocity is equivalent to a megaton.<BR>
<BR>
Our "standard" 100 ton projectile would impact as a 15.7 *gigaton* blast.<BR>
<BR>
And all of this is ignoring relativistic corrections... Though<BR>
actually, they can be ignored. The projectile won't be moving as fast,<BR>
but the energy will be the same. That's because while relativity makes<BR>
it take more energy to reach high speeds, that same factor makes the<BR>
lower speeds have more energy. So the only real difference it makes is<BR>
that to observers outside the ship, it takes them longer to reach the<BR>
desired energy level. <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, it should be obvious that you pick a "convenient" sized mass<BR>
for the size of ship(s) that you have assigned to bombardment duty. One<BR>
that they can carry easily at high acelleration, but one that doesn't<BR>
take too long to accelerate to a useful velocity. <BR>
<BR>
And you can launch ("drop") multiple projectiles. That's because you<BR>
*want* to release them while the ship is out of range of weapons on the<BR>
planet. And at that distance, it won't take a lot of side thrust to aim<BR>
the projectiles at different targets. Even ones thousands of km apart.<BR>
<BR>
I expect that this may be a secondary task for the ships that carry<BR>
battle riders. They can carry a *lot* of mass in those grapples. <BR>
<BR>
I exoect that there are combat engineering ships that specialize in<BR>
converting "raw" nickel iron asteroids into projectiles for this sort<BR>
of bombardment. <BR>
<BR>
You *could* create ships with huge "spinal mount" mass drivers that<BR>
could fire lighter projectiles at higher velocities. But I'm not sure<BR>
it's worth the trouble most of the time. <BR>
<BR>
Better to accept a lower rate of fire, and be able to use the<BR>
bombarment ships for other purposes.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3093<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3094</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/24/00 9:59:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 25 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3094<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
laws<BR>
Alcohol<BR>
Re: Striker multi-barrel weapons<BR>
RE: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
RE: 'breaking news'<BR>
RE: laws<BR>
RE: laws<BR>
Re: Alcohol laws<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
Panels (Was: Penguins)<BR>
Re: Striker III etc<BR>
RE: Striker III etc<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
Pirate codes...<BR>
RE: TML Landgrab - Ficant<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
Re: Alcohol laws<BR>
Re: laws<BR>
RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:34:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: laws<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> ObTrav: As I discovered tonight, sifting through alcohol laws can be a<BR>
>> little confusing. The nature of the Third Imperium is such that individual<BR>
>> worlds are allowed to come up with their own laws with respect to trade,<BR>
>> taxation and regulation.<BR>
>><BR>
>> This could cause all sorts of trouble for free traders.<BR>
><BR>
> I don't think so.  At least not at TL8-9 and above.<BR>
> It should be a routine matter to download the local<BR>
> laws (if you don't them ahead of time, which I would<BR>
> expect to be the norm), and let the software sort it<BR>
> out for you.<BR>
<BR>
Have you ever *read* any laws? It's not at all uncommon for them to be<BR>
unintelligible without knowing "background" info that *isn't* in the<BR>
law books. Including stuff like various "terms of art" that they only<BR>
teach in law school.<BR>
<BR>
Also, it's not *that* uncommon for multiple laws to overlap in a such a<BR>
way that it's not at all clear which has precedence (of *course* they<BR>
contradict each other!). That's why court decisions play such a part. <BR>
<BR>
Just because it's "obvious" what a law means doesn't mean that's how<BR>
the courts will rule.<BR>
<BR>
I'd mention the best known example of this, but that'd start the "g*n"<BR>
thread. <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, even with *excellent* AI, this wouldn't work all that well. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:30:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Alcohol<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Check with your local liquor control board. I'll merely note that<BR>
>>O'Douls and the like get locked up at the same time as the rest of the<BR>
>>alcohol at the places that are open all night, and they don't sell it<BR>
>>to minors...<BR>
><BR>
> That's odd. Around these parts O'Doul's is frequently sold in places which<BR>
> don't sell alcoholic beverages (such as supermarkets) and may be sold to<BR>
> people under 21. This is because Pennsylvania, regulates beverages<BR>
> containing more than 0.5% alcohol by volume. I did a few minutes of<BR>
> searching, and it appears as if the same practice is followed in lots of<BR>
> other states, including Oregon. Now, I may be wrong - and if that's the<BR>
> case, I apologize in advance - but I seem to remember that you live in<BR>
> Oregon.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'll admit that I *haven't* checked with the OLCC. I was going<BR>
from the fact that O'Douls is sold with the beers at stores and treated<BR>
the same by them. <BR>
<BR>
ps. Would you please be sure to put a "Subject:" line in your headers?<BR>
My software gets rather upset when there isn't one.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:51:51 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker multi-barrel weapons<BR>
<BR>
Leslie Bates wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >I have been pondering what the DM would be for a more realistic rate of<BR>
 >fire, such as the two to three round burst taught to us at the Benning<BR>
 >School for Boys. This was with the old M16A1, no burst regulator. Fun,<BR>
 >fun,<BR>
 >fun.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe give auto-burst weapons a DM of one lower than full-auto weapons<BR>
of the same ROF (+3 becomes +2), with reduced consumption of ammunition.<BR>
Say 1/2 to 3/4 the rate of ammo use.  Small arms would consume 3/4 of a<BR>
magazine per firing (vs. a full magazine for full-auto).  IIRC the idea <BR>
behind auto-burst weapons was primarily to conserve ammo (while still <BR>
getting more firepower), so that's what this house-rule does.<BR>
<BR>
This may be an unnecessary complication, though.  From the description<BR>
of auto-weapons in Traveller & Mercenary, they all seem to be auto-burst.<BR>
Maybe all automatic Traveller weapons with low ROFs should be auto-<BR>
bursters by default, with no new rule needed.  <BR>
<BR>
Ludowick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:59:23 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Bheer, the one true Ghod<BR>
<BR>
>>> I think most US beers are in the 5-7% range. Unfortunately, the two<BR>
brands<BR>
>>> of beer I have handy to check right now don't specify; there must be<BR>
some<BR>
>>> law discouraging display of percentages for people optimizing for<BR>
maximum<BR>
>>> alcohol intake.<BR>
><BR>
>Most US mass produced beer is 3.2% alcohol by volume.  Some microbrews and<BR>
>specialty brews go higher (e.g. Old English 800)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Tod<BR>
<BR>
It's been quite a few years but I remember back when I was a non-rate in the<BR>
U.S. Navy in the late seventies that the under 21 crowd, at the club on<BR>
base, was allowed to buy "3.2 Beer" also called, by them, "Near Beer." This<BR>
beverage was canned by most of the major breweries and marked "U.S." and<BR>
"3.2%." Once you turned 21 you could have "real" beer. All this was brought<BR>
to a halt by people who seemed to think it was alright the take a bullet for<BR>
your country, but not to be treated like an adult. At one point I had a 19<BR>
year old working for me who Uncle Sam trusted to run a nuclear reactor, but<BR>
not to drink a beer, or stay out past midnight while in Europe, but I<BR>
digress.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:47:52 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
> ps. Anybody got the formula for calculating the Schwarzchild radius as<BR>
> a funtion of mass handy? I can't find the book right now...<BR>
<BR>
GM/c^2<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:54:49 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: laws<BR>
<BR>
Leonard wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Have you ever *read* any laws? It's not at all uncommon for them to be<BR>
> unintelligible without knowing "background" info that *isn't* in the<BR>
> law books. Including stuff like various "terms of art" that they only<BR>
> teach in law school.<BR>
<BR>
My only exposure to laws was as an officer in the US Army, when I had to<BR>
read various parts of the UCMJ. The UCMJ is actually quite easy to read and<BR>
understand.<BR>
<BR>
I believe it was the Roman Emperor Tiberius (it was certainly one of the<BR>
Claudians) who had his big chance to change things. He almost made it<BR>
illegal for lawyers to accept payment for their services. Since we have<BR>
adopted a good part of the Roman tradition, we might have adopted that part<BR>
too.<BR>
<BR>
It's not too far-fetched that such a culture would exist somewhere in the<BR>
Traveller universe. Now that's a place I would like to vist.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:11:09 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: laws<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm... a society where the Laywers do not get paid... actually I can<BR>
almost see it. Lots of people represent themselves. In this society,<BR>
legal knowledge is almost second nature. Well... maybe! <BR>
<BR>
Is it illegal for the prosecutors as well? If so... who does the<BR>
prosecution? <BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Luther Martin [mailto:martin@ksarul.com]<BR>
> Sent: Monday, 25 September 2000 8:55<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: laws<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Leonard wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Have you ever *read* any laws? It's not at all uncommon for <BR>
> them to be<BR>
> > unintelligible without knowing "background" info that *isn't* in the<BR>
> > law books. Including stuff like various "terms of art" that <BR>
> they only<BR>
> > teach in law school.<BR>
> <BR>
> My only exposure to laws was as an officer in the US Army, <BR>
> when I had to<BR>
> read various parts of the UCMJ. The UCMJ is actually quite <BR>
> easy to read and<BR>
> understand.<BR>
> <BR>
> I believe it was the Roman Emperor Tiberius (it was certainly <BR>
> one of the<BR>
> Claudians) who had his big chance to change things. He almost made it<BR>
> illegal for lawyers to accept payment for their services. <BR>
> Since we have<BR>
> adopted a good part of the Roman tradition, we might have <BR>
> adopted that part<BR>
> too.<BR>
> <BR>
> It's not too far-fetched that such a culture would exist <BR>
> somewhere in the<BR>
> Traveller universe. Now that's a place I would like to vist.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:10:30 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Alcohol laws<BR>
<BR>
> From: Bruce Johnson <BR>
> You: "here's all the forms and fees for this cargo. As you can see I've<BR>
> got the 2% special tax on the denebian orange juice, and have filled out<BR>
> form AX3488/h1 pre your statutes 345.678b and a." You stand there smugly,<BR>
<BR>
> knowing that LingLegal 4.57 (TM) has saved your butt again!<BR>
> <BR>
> Border agent: "Oh dear. You got that information from the law download,<BR>
> didn't you." <BR>
> <BR>
> She looks at you pityingly. "I've been _telling_ them to upgrade it more<BR>
> often than the decennial census, but do they listen to a poor old<BR>
> underpaid agent in the field? <belushi> Nooooooooo</belushi>"<BR>
<BR>
Well that's what happens when you use a LingLegal product.  You should have<BR>
been using one from FSLeeegals!<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:13:12 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
<BR>
> But seriously my gut feel for this is that a black hole starts at it's<BR>
> event horizon and since within the confines of the event horizon<BR>
> you are most definitely also within the 10D limit a jump from within<BR>
> a black hole would have to be the near suicidal exercise we all<BR>
> know it to be. <BR>
<BR>
But all the mass is at the singularity, a point source...<BR>
<BR>
*Anywhere* is more than 100D from a point...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:55:28 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Chris wrote:<BR>
>I can see the title card now:<BR>
><BR>
>"Fiegeltoons presents: Slappy the Spacehand in 'Clobber the Mind Robbers!'"<BR>
<BR>
"Dulinor and Lucan want to rule the universe,<BR>
The Zhos begin invading, Seldrian whacks them with her purse,<BR>
The Vargr eat up Lishun, while Strephon mopes in verse,<BR>
Vi-rus was tripped,<BR>
The Hivers flipped,<BR>
The Long Night we rehearse!"<BR>
<BR>
<slap!><whack!><crunch!> "And now we return you to your regularly scheduled<BR>
programming..."<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:23:46 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Panels (Was: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Pronto <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 3:17:pm<BR>
Subject: Re: Penguins<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> > > Hmmm...   ObTrav:   How well does Starship instumentation stand up to<BR>
> > those little accidents?<BR>
> > ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > This was tried in a game of mine many winters ago... I figured though,<BR>
> that<BR>
> > it wasn't unrealistic that such critical instrumentation would be sealed<BR>
> > from liquid spillage from the outside - that you would have to undo the<BR>
> > panel to break that seal...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > -- The Roc<BR>
> ><BR>
> Surely some form of removable media would be used (analogous to a floppy<BR>
or<BR>
> CD) to transfer large amounts of data or to install new programs?<BR>
> Or would that kind of access be placed out of harms way? If so, where?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Quite possibly, even in another room altogether from where it is sent to the<BR>
required work station.  Also, if I had a recent game (and with the Classic<BR>
reprints, that's not beyond happening), I'd probably say that the upper and<BR>
side surfaces of onboard computers and control panels were all sealed, and<BR>
that removable media was accessed via, say an underside where a desk has a<BR>
ledge or some-such, so that any spillage would run safely away and not into,<BR>
and even that would be "sealable" with a cover/door/flap/panel...<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:08:29 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker III etc<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Luther wrote:<BR>
>There must be a way to streamline Striker so that it's more<BR>
>understandible.<BR>
<BR>
Start with MT.<BR>
<BR>
>Another alternative is a 101 Striker Vehicles project.<BR>
<BR>
Interestingly, there already is a "101 Vehicles" for MT. OK, so it's part of<BR>
Sanger's forbidden canon, but it's a start.<BR>
<BR>
[Another reason why I'm hankering back to MT, out of all the different Trav<BR>
versions, as MY version-of-choice. Compatability. Scalability. Integration. Huge<BR>
range of pre-published designs.<BR>
<BR>
And I have all the errata. ;-)]<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:22:19 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker III etc<BR>
<BR>
Is it just the DGP stuff that Mr Sanger has the rights to?<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
[mailto:david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au]<BR>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 11:08 AM<BR>
To: traveller@ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker III etc<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Luther wrote:<BR>
>There must be a way to streamline Striker so that it's more<BR>
>understandible.<BR>
<BR>
Start with MT.<BR>
<BR>
>Another alternative is a 101 Striker Vehicles project.<BR>
<BR>
Interestingly, there already is a "101 Vehicles" for MT. OK, so it's<BR>
part of<BR>
Sanger's forbidden canon, but it's a start.<BR>
<BR>
[Another reason why I'm hankering back to MT, out of all the different<BR>
Trav<BR>
versions, as MY version-of-choice. Compatability. Scalability.<BR>
Integration. Huge<BR>
range of pre-published designs.<BR>
<BR>
And I have all the errata. ;-)]<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:43:11 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Neil McGurk <nellkyn@gascoignes.fsnet.co.uk><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 12:20:am<BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> The past may be a 'foreign country' but too many people think of the past<BR>
as<BR>
> an amorphous blob where people bearably survived. I have a great interest<BR>
in<BR>
> the<BR>
> society and history of late Fifteenth Century England and in the surviving<BR>
> letters I find it fascinating how similar they are to me. They laugh at<BR>
> similar things, they worry about what they ride (drive to me), how<BR>
> fashionable their clothes are and what people are saying about them.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I often show friends the following when they say how bad things/society<BR>
is today, really, folks were pretty similar in outlook in the past, even if<BR>
not in lifestyle...<BR>
<BR>
"Our earth is degenerate in these latter days.  There are signs that the<BR>
world is speedily coming to an end.  Bribery and corruption are common."  --<BR>
Ancient Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 B.C.<BR>
<BR>
"Children are now tyrants... They no longer rise when elders enter a room.<BR>
They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at<BR>
the table, cross their legs, and tyrannise over their teachers."  --<BR>
Socrates.<BR>
<BR>
"What is happening to our young people?  They disrespect their elders, they<BR>
disobey their parents.  They ignore the law.  They riot in the streets<BR>
inflamed with wild notions.  Their morals are decaying.  What is to become<BR>
of them?"  -- Plato<BR>
<BR>
Where have we heard all that before, I wonder? ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:44:07 -0700<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Pirate codes...<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Came across this on the editorial pages of<BR>
'Honduras This Week', the English language paper for, you guessed it,<BR>
ex-pats residing in Honduras. It has a weekly column, called the<BR>
&quot;Leeward Course&quot; written by Jorge Arurcla, and he has been<BR>
focusing on Pirates for the last several issues (in case anyone wants to<BR>
go through the back issue archives and read 'em). The url for this weeks<BR>
issue is:<BR>
<A HREF="http://www.marrder.com/htw/editorial.htm">www.marrder.com/htw/editorial.htm</A><BR>
<BR>
Here is an excerpt I found interesting from this weeks column...<BR>
<BR>
***<BR>
Robert &quot;Black Bart&quot; Bartholomew's code: <BR>
<BR>
Bartholomew's Articles :<BR>
<BR>
- - All important decisions to be put to a vote. <BR>
- - Any man caught stealing shall be marooned. <BR>
- - All pistols and cutlasses will be kept clean. <BR>
- - No women allowed on board. <BR>
- - Any man who deserts ship in battle shall be put to death. <BR>
- - All crew's quarrels will be settled on shore. <BR>
- - The captain and quartermaster to receive two shares of the booty; <BR>
&nbsp; the master gunner, and boatswain, one and a half shares; <BR>
&nbsp; other officers one and a quarter shares; <BR>
&nbsp; all others, one shares each. <BR>
- - Injuries to be compensated. Any man who loses a <BR>
&nbsp; limb in battle shall receive extra booty. <BR>
<BR>
***<BR>
<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:45:18 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: TML Landgrab - Ficant<BR>
<BR>
On 21 Sep 00, at 19:55, Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Reading through the recently posted Ficant Landgrab I  think  I'm<BR>
> missing part of the picture.  Some questions  (in  no  particular<BR>
> order):<BR>
<BR>
Sorry about the delay in replying. I've still got a lot of work to do on Ficant.<BR>
<BR>
> Is the ethnic difference  between  the  Sword  Worlders  and  the<BR>
> Imperial colonists still recognised by Ficant's  population?  Are<BR>
> there ethnic tensions  and/or  positive  discrimination  programs<BR>
> (aka equal opportunity programs)?<BR>
<BR>
Interesting point, one I think I'll develop<BR>
<BR>
> Has the Sword Worlds Confederation taken any interest  in  Ficant<BR>
> in recent times?<BR>
<BR>
Not really, its a very minor system. Still if there are racial tensions, it could <BR>
be interesting<BR>
<BR>
> Does the local Governing Council place any  restrictions  on  the<BR>
> import of technology or try to protect the economy in any way?<BR>
<BR>
I'd imagine not, their concern is with protecting the ecosystem rather than <BR>
the economy.<BR>
<BR>
> Does the local Governing Council have any kind of agenda?<BR>
<BR>
Have to think on this one.<BR>
<BR>
> How much popular support does the local Governing Council have?<BR>
<BR>
Its generally a popular government. Very close ties between those <BR>
governing and those being governed. I picture it like a small local council.<BR>
<BR>
> How large is the local armed forces?<BR>
<BR>
No actual armed services, but some 200 Constables (sort of a general <BR>
purpose law enforcement/emergency services/milita)<BR>
<BR>
> If a  megacorporation  (like  SuSAG)  wanted  to  build  a  large<BR>
> facility onplanet would this be welcomed?<BR>
<BR>
Now that would be an interesting adventure hook<BR>
<BR>
> How much traffic passes through the system?<BR>
<BR>
Maybe tens of ships per year I'd imagine<BR>
<BR>
> What taxation might visiting traders expect?<BR>
<BR>
Standard port fees with hefty tarrifs on importing alien creatures<BR>
<BR>
> What is the dominant belief system?<BR>
<BR>
Denebian (an offshoot of mainstream Christianity). Differs from the bulk of <BR>
the Marches Christianity which is Morian.<BR>
 <BR>
> How much seasonal variation in the climate is there  at  Atterdag<BR>
> (and elsewhere)?<BR>
<BR>
With a 10 degree tilt, they will be less extreme than on Earth. Being <BR>
equatorial will give two seasons (wet and dry). I'll do a full write up based <BR>
on First In.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:27:33 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
"Patrik Holmstrm" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> This message has been sent both to the TML and Marc Miller.<BR>
><BR>
> When I was looking at the olympics I spotted a commersial for a swedish<BR>
> computer game called Traveller. Is this a violation of the Traveller<BR>
> trademark (I'm no expert on copyright laws)?<BR>
<BR>
First, Trademark laws are *different* from copyright laws,<BR>
though you're not the first, and surely not the last, to confuse them.<BR>
<BR>
As to whether there is an infringement of the Traveller trademark,<BR>
that all depends on many, many things.  Unlike copyright law,<BR>
there is no significant international treaty governing the handling of<BR>
trademarks.  The laws can vary significantly from one place to another.<BR>
Often, a trademark in Sweden doesn't mean much in the US and vice<BR>
versa.  And then there are different types of trademarks in some places<BR>
(like the US).  So, it all depends.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
Disclaimer:  I'm a lawyer but I'm not your lawyer.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:29:43 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Alcohol laws<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Not if the fees and fines (and bribes) are a sizeable revenue stream for<BR>
> the local government.<BR>
<BR>
[snip incident]<BR>
<BR>
The exception proves the rule.  Word of that kind of behavior will<BR>
get around very fast.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:30:54 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: laws<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Have you ever *read* any laws?<BR>
<BR>
Yoohoo!  I *am* a lawyer.<BR>
<BR>
<Smootch><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:04:57 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Also, 15 Tl12 designs (that are for sale from Tributis Corp.) are now<BR>
> available for download.<BR>
<BR>
Is it possible to post the designs in HTML only, rather than XML? Browsers<BR>
have a heck of a time saving the XML documents. The alternative appears to<BR>
be to save and then edit the HTML for the separate sheets, removing the code<BR>
where you test whether or not the sheet is being displayed in the main<BR>
window, replacing the if(....) with if(1!=1) seems to do the job, but I<BR>
would hate to have to manually edit every design which is posted.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:35:48 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> You *could* create ships with huge "spinal mount" mass drivers that<BR>
> could fire lighter projectiles at higher velocities. But I'm not sure<BR>
> it's worth the trouble most of the time.<BR>
<BR>
Cool.  Thanks for the math.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:04:09 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 2:27:pm<BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> "Patrik Holmstrm" wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > This message has been sent both to the TML and Marc Miller.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > When I was looking at the olympics I spotted a commersial for a swedish<BR>
> > computer game called Traveller. Is this a violation of the Traveller<BR>
> > trademark (I'm no expert on copyright laws)?<BR>
><BR>
> First, Trademark laws are *different* from copyright laws,<BR>
> though you're not the first, and surely not the last, to confuse them.<BR>
><BR>
> As to whether there is an infringement of the Traveller trademark,<BR>
> that all depends on many, many things.  Unlike copyright law,<BR>
> there is no significant international treaty governing the handling of<BR>
> trademarks.  The laws can vary significantly from one place to another.<BR>
> Often, a trademark in Sweden doesn't mean much in the US and vice<BR>
> versa.  And then there are different types of trademarks in some places<BR>
> (like the US).  So, it all depends.<BR>
><BR>
> bloo<BR>
<BR>
Would examples be, such things as Woolworths and K-mart in Australia being<BR>
totally independent (initially at least) of the non-Australian companies<BR>
that also carry that name?<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3094<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3095</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 25 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3095<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: laws<BR>
RE: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
RE: Very odd question...<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
RE: 3I Software Standards Control Board (getting long)<BR>
Re: "101 Vehicles"<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
Sorry about this...!<BR>
Re: Very odd question...<BR>
Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
RE: laws<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
Re: laws<BR>
Re: Panels (Was: Penguins)<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
Re: laws<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:03:15 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: laws<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hmmm... a society where the Laywers do not get paid... actually I can<BR>
> almost see it. Lots of people represent themselves. In this society,<BR>
> legal knowledge is almost second nature. Well... maybe!<BR>
><BR>
> Is it illegal for the prosecutors as well? If so... who does the<BR>
> prosecution?<BR>
<BR>
Well, if law school didn't cost so much at most places (there are several<BR>
exceptions), and if litigation weren't often so costly/lucrative, lawyers<BR>
wouldn't be in a position to charge what they do.  Of course, if state and<BR>
federal governments didn't write such poorly constructed laws, the field<BR>
might not be so difficult for people to get into, and there wouldn't be<BR>
such a need for someone to 'translate'.<BR>
<BR>
When I was studying Maitland and other legal historians in college<BR>
(when I still didn't think I wanted to ever go to law school), I concluded<BR>
that the foundations of the current legal 'class', profession, whatever,<BR>
was formed to protect the property of landed gentry in a non-violent<BR>
manner.  Why waste a few dozen men-at-arms to settle some minor<BR>
land dispute when you can do it in the king's courts?  I wasn't looking<BR>
at the Roman period, but rather the 11th to 16th centuries. The growth<BR>
of what might be called nationalism, and particularly the monopolization<BR>
of the means of violence (at least on paper) by increasing powerful<BR>
central governments, had a lot to do with this.  This is where you can<BR>
see courts with lawyers, judges and often juries that are recognizably<BR>
similar to modern ones.  Private secular legal education also begins,<BR>
at this time (barring any Roman-era information that I'm not aware of),<BR>
or rather, it becomes entrenched.<BR>
<BR>
With the creation of a private legal profession, there is little incentive<BR>
to demystify things for the laity, but rather one to make things more<BR>
complex, to make others dependent on your services.  Indeed, since<BR>
this period, there has been a permanent legal 'class' in Northern and<BR>
Western Europe (the area of my collegiate examination).  I'm am a<BR>
member of the oldest legal bar in the Americas: the bar of the<BR>
Massachusetts which started in 1648 and has operated continously<BR>
since. This is young by European standards.<BR>
<BR>
With a few notable areas of exception, in my view, the fundamental<BR>
purpose of the private legal profession has not changed.  That purpose<BR>
is the protection of the property interests of the upper classes and their<BR>
corporations.  "The pen is mightier than the sword" and all that.  Now<BR>
mercenaries where wingtips and three-piece suits, instead of the House<BR>
livery and a sword.  The courtroom is an adversarial jousting list,<BR>
with a bar and everything.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure it would abhor many lawyers, but if law school were free, in<BR>
exchange for 'free' legal services to the public (for significant periods<BR>
of time), I'd be all for it.  Say, three years of free law school, followed<BR>
by six to eight years of free legal service.  (Of course, when I say "free",<BR>
<BR>
I mean enough to live on).  That is about the arrangement you can get<BR>
through the military.<BR>
<BR>
I feel the same way about the medical profession.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe I'm turning into a socialist.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:18:15 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
<BR>
I disagree that 100% uptime is do-able with any amount of money.<BR>
<BR>
I did a cost analysis on going from 95% uptime to 98% uptime for an old<BR>
client - with their apps and WAN it was like $500,000 US. It grew<BR>
exponentially from there. IMHO 100% uptime is like the speed of light.. you<BR>
can get there with infinite $$. Sadly, the bank usually has nasty words for<BR>
me when I plan my budget on infinite $$.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Thing<BR>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 7:44 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 24 Sep 2000, Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> No need for it, we can do it now. Look at what Shuttle Software Systems<BR>
> produces (I think they are up to 17 defects in 45,000,000 lines of code).<BR>
If<BR>
> you have this level of discipline in contruction, theres no need for such<BR>
> extensive testing.<BR>
<BR>
That can be falacious truism.  Even code complete warns against the true<BR>
statement "We don't need to do alot of testing because we won't find many<BR>
bugs."  Zero defects and zero downtime are supposedly achievable goals but<BR>
are very expensive.  You need to minimize changes from the known good<BR>
version and test the hell out of anything that does change.  And then you<BR>
put in redundant systems to make up for things you do change.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
ThingUnderTheStairs<BR>
==================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:19:49 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
Net.Congestion strike again!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
This is getting weird.. did a bunch of messages misjump?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:16:24 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
The Roc wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Would examples be, such things as Woolworths and K-mart in Australia being<BR>
> totally independent (initially at least) of the non-Australian companies<BR>
> that also carry that name?<BR>
<BR>
Most likely.  Trademarks are a "Use It First" and "Use It Or Lose It"<BR>
proposition.<BR>
They are also limited by market and geography.  Special trademarks, like the<BR>
circle-R 'registered' trademark used in the US, defeat the geography<BR>
limitation,<BR>
in the US at least, because it is 'constructive' notice (which means that even<BR>
if you<BR>
don't 'actually' know, it's your fault for not looking at the register) for the<BR>
whole<BR>
nation.  Of course, that means bupkis in Austrailia, barring treaties to the<BR>
contrary.<BR>
<BR>
To protect a trademark globally with as much protectino as possible, you'd have<BR>
<BR>
to use and register the mark in every country that you can.  That would make a<BR>
lot<BR>
of lawyers happy.  But with the growth of the internet, things will inevitably<BR>
come<BR>
to a head. There is something called the Madrid Agreement and the Madrid<BR>
Protocol that occurred in 1996.  I'm not up to date on it at all, but<BR>
hopefully,<BR>
it, or something like it, will help sort these things out.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 01:31:33 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 'breaking news'<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:06:58 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>You missed the earlier posts. The black hole in question is a galaxy or<BR>
>(or larger collection of stars) with them all close enough that the<BR>
>overall field results in an event horizon a few hundred or thousand<BR>
>parsecs out.<BR>
<BR>
Oops your right. I thought discusion had turned back to the more<BR>
normal type of black hole. Forgive me.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>The idea being that the larger a black hole gets, the *lower* its<BR>
>density. make one big enough, and the density is essentially a vacuum.<BR>
><BR>
>> My gut feeling is that the<BR>
>> black hole would have to interfere with jump in the same way as any<BR>
>> other stellar body (100 Diameters safe distance et al.) the galaxy as<BR>
>> a whole would not exert this same phenomenon because most of the<BR>
>> galaxy is in fact void of objects large enough to cast a noticable<BR>
>> 100 Diameter shadow. (Quick what's the 100D limit for a hydrogen<BR>
>> atom)<BR>
><BR>
>Depends on how you figure "100 diameters". Is that an absolute, or is<BR>
>it a "rule of thumb" that works for planets.<BR>
<BR>
Well I'm still awfull fond of 100D beaing an absolute as opposed<BR>
to a fudged rule of thumb. I get down right cantankerous on this<BR>
actually.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"She came from Planet Claire<BR>
 I knew she came from there<BR>
 She drove a Plymouth Satellite<BR>
 Faster than the speed of light"<BR>
  - B-52's<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:55:34 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
GDD replied to Andrew thus:<BR>
>> No need for it, we can do it now. Look at what Shuttle Software Systems<BR>
>> produces (I think they are up to 17 defects in 45,000,000 lines of code). If<BR>
>> you have this level of discipline in contruction, theres no need for such<BR>
>> extensive testing.<BR>
><BR>
>That can be falacious truism.  Even code complete warns against the true<BR>
>statement "We don't need to do alot of testing because we won't find many<BR>
>bugs."<BR>
<BR>
Actually quite true. If you read the entire article, you'll se that they DO do<BR>
extensive testing. In fact they have two groups that compete (in a friendly<BR>
manner ;-) - the coders and the testers.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:51:27 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: 3I Software Standards Control Board (getting long)<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I disagree that 100% uptime is do-able with any amount of money.<BR>
><BR>
> I did a cost analysis on going from 95% uptime to 98% uptime for an old<BR>
> client - with their apps and WAN it was like $500,000 US. It grew<BR>
> exponentially from there. IMHO 100% uptime is like the speed of<BR>
> light.. you<BR>
> can get there with infinite $$. Sadly, the bank usually has nasty<BR>
> words for<BR>
> me when I plan my budget on infinite $$.<BR>
<BR>
When I was a consultant, I did some work for a client who wanted 99%<BR>
availability on one system and 95% on another. The 99% was achievable, using<BR>
extremely expensive telco-quality UNIX systems, but the price was<BR>
staggering. The vendor did claim that their systems could achieve 99.9999%<BR>
availability, but that's extremely hard to test. How long do you expect to<BR>
run a system to get a failure at that level of reliability?<BR>
<BR>
Another consulting client of mine had a goal of 99% availability of a<BR>
particular NT system, and actually had not even had one  second of downtime<BR>
in over one year. On the other hand, it did take them over 18 months to<BR>
learn to tune NT to get this level of availability.<BR>
<BR>
I have always assumed that computer systems in Traveller are fairly robust,<BR>
at least the computers on starships. First, I assume that formal<BR>
verification methods will make fairly error-free software possible by higher<BR>
tech levels. I assume that there's a 2 TL lag in verification technology, so<BR>
that it takes TL 15 technology to verify the software written for a computer<BR>
which becomes available at TL 13, etc. I also assume that the software which<BR>
controls ships is tightly controlled by governments, requiring at least the<BR>
level of testing and verification of software which controls aircraft and<BR>
nuclear reactors today (the only industries I am familliar with where any<BR>
significant correctness is enforced - there may be others). Finally, since<BR>
even Free Traders are flying around with weapons of mass destruction aboard,<BR>
I assume that the systems which control the weapon systems and related stuff<BR>
are extremely carefully designed and tested.<BR>
<BR>
This vision of the future also makes the routine tasks of programming much<BR>
different than they are today. At typical Traveller TLs, I assume that some<BR>
sort of meta-code generation tool is used, so that the programmer just<BR>
describes what the program will do, and the code is generated and verified<BR>
by other tools. Much like the Alta tools from Cadence which are available<BR>
today, but much more advanced.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:08:33 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: "101 Vehicles"<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>>Another alternative is a 101 Striker Vehicles project.<BR>
><BR>
>Interestingly, there already is a "101 Vehicles" for MT. OK, so it's part of<BR>
>Sanger's forbidden canon, but it's a start.<BR>
<BR>
  When I finally got around to reading it I immediately put it in the<BR>
"to re-sell" heap - something I have not done with any other Traveller<BR>
material from GDW/DGP. The stats were of less use than the equivalent<BR>
in Striker, and the art and text were not an improvement from there :(<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:00:48 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Patrik wrote:<BR>
>When I was looking at the olympics I spotted a commersial for a swedish<BR>
>computer game called Traveller. Is this a violation of the Traveller<BR>
>trademark (I'm no expert on copyright laws)?<BR>
<BR>
Give us some more details, then we of the TML might be able to hunt down the<BR>
manufacturer to find out what exactly they are producing (eg. what's their name?<BR>
do they have a web site?).<BR>
<BR>
In copyright, it is permissable for two organisations to have the same name,<BR>
provided they are in totally unrelated fields. "Centrelink", for instance is not<BR>
a unique name - but it is unique within its field.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:11:05 +0100<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Sorry about this...!<BR>
<BR>
Some songs from the Final War....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Fighting in the Great Rebellion"<BR>
(The Battle-cry of Freedom)<BR>
<BR>
Yes we'll rally round the flag boys, rally evermore,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
We will rally from the frontier, we will gather from the Core, <BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
The Imperium forever, Hurrah boys, Hurrah!<BR>
Down with the traitors, and up with the Star!<BR>
While we rally round the flag boys, rally evermore,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
<BR>
We are springing to the call of our brothers gone before,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
And we'll plug the vacant ranks with a fleet from Corridor,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
The Imperium forever, Hurrah boys, Hurrah!<BR>
Down with the traitors, and up with the Star!<BR>
While we rally round the flag boys, rally evermore,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
<BR>
We will welcome to our numbers the loyal true and brave,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
And although he may be poor, he will not be Margaret's slave,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
The Imperium forever, Hurrah boys, Hurrah!<BR>
Down with the traitors, and up with the Star!<BR>
And we'll rally round the flag boys, rally evermore,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
<BR>
So we're springing to the call from the Marches to the Core,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
And we'll crush the traitor Dulinor,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
The Imperium forever, Hurrah boys, Hurrah!<BR>
Down with the traitors, and up with the Star!<BR>
And we'll rally round the flag boys, rally evermore,<BR>
Fighting in the great Rebellion!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The Bonny Black Flag<BR>
(The Bonny Blue Flag)<BR>
<BR>
We are a band of brothers, the leaders of the Fleet,<BR>
The Archdukes started fighting so we voted with our feet.<BR>
Across the great Imperium, the cry rose near and far,<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
<BR>
As long as the Archdukes were faithful to the trust,<BR>
Like friends and like brethren, kind were we and just.<BR>
But now that darkest treachery attempts our lives to mar,<BR>
We hoist on high the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
<BR>
First the traitor Dulinor chose to make a stand,<BR>
He came before the Emperor with pistol in his hand. <BR>
But Strephon dodged the bullets, called help from sectors far,<BR>
They raised on high the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
<BR>
Lucan murdered Varian, claimed Strephon's rightful throne,<BR>
Margaret sent for battleships and Norris stayed at home.<BR>
Antares has seceded, but many worlds prepare,<BR>
To raise on high the bonny black flag that bears a single star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
<BR>
You men, you'd better gather round the banner of the right,<BR>
For Solomani battlefleets have joined us in the fight.<BR>
Strephon, beloved Emperor, needs ships and captains rare,<BR>
Who'll swear to serve the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
<BR>
So here's to Gushemenge, the Emperor's sovereign state,<BR>
To Strephon's final victory, her people linked their fate.<BR>
We're fighting all the others, but just to end the war,<BR>
Just one more push to Capital, we'll raise the bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! All Strephon's men we are!<BR>
Hurrah for the bonny black flag that bears a bursting star!<BR>
<BR>
So cheer boys, cheer now, raise the joyous shout!<BR>
Of bloodshed and stupidity, Duke Craig has opted out.<BR>
Our ships are spreading Virus as they jump from star to star,<BR>
Our bonny black flag is burning now, it bears a shattered star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! We fought the Final War!<BR>
Our bonny black flag is burning now, it bears a shattered star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! We fought the Final War!<BR>
Our bonny black flag is burning now, it bears a shattered star!<BR>
<BR>
Here's to the Imperium, strong we were and brave,<BR>
Like patriots of old we fought, our heritage to save.<BR>
And down into the darkness, we'll soon be falling far,<BR>
The bonny black flag is burning now, it bears a shattered star.<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! We fought the Final War,<BR>
Our bonny black flag is burning now, it bears a shattered star!<BR>
Hurrah! Hurrah! New Era men we are!<BR>
And rising from the ashes, we'll see a bursting star!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 04:30:25 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Very odd question...<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 10:28:48<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Very odd question...<BR>
><BR>
>6th Cavalry Regiment ("Fighting 6th")<BR>
>      1st Squadron   (RA, Av, 6th CB(CbtAv))(Wonju, SK)<BR>
>      2nd Squadron   (RA, AtkHel, 11th AvRegt) (Illesheim, Ger)<BR>
>      3rd Squadron   (RA, Av, 6th CB(CbtAv))(Wonju, SK)<BR>
>      4th Squadron   (RA, IA)<BR>
>      5th Squadron   (RA, IA)<BR>
>      6th Squadron   (RA, AtkHel, 11th AvRegt) (Illesheim, Ger)<BR>
>      7th Squadron   (AR, Av, 90th RSC)(Conroe, TX)<BR>
><BR>
>That's the best information I copuld find on the web, I bow to any<BR>
>information you have, Major, since you are more current than I am.<BR>
<BR>
It looks as if the 6th Cav Brigade moved to Korea, that's all. I wonder<BR>
who's at Fort Hood now? Oh, well.<BR>
<BR>
>The original reason for the question was I wanted to us the patch (for the<BR>
>unicorn) but didn't want to wear anything from an active unit.<BR>
<BR>
In which case, you're safe: the 6th Cavalry Brigade uses a different patch<BR>
(crossed sabers on a red/white shield), and the separate squadrons use the<BR>
patches of the divisions and brigades to which they are assigned.<BR>
<BR>
I have a couple of 7th Cavalry Regiment patches around the house, that are<BR>
similarly never used in on active duty.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:57:17 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Decline and Fall of the Vilani Empire<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 09:26:52 -0700<BR>
>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
<BR>
[Vilani acculturation to Terran norms]<BR>
>  A slow process though, and probably unlikely to remove Vilani culture <BR>
>from those worlds much removed from Terra in the short span of the <BR>
>Ramshackle Empire.<BR>
<BR>
slow yes, but we've got 400 years to work with, which should be plenty<BR>
of time.  I agree that the process would be patchy - canonically the<BR>
area around Vland itself rejected Terranisation (Terrorisation?) more<BR>
thoroughly than the rest of what would become the 3I.  I don't think<BR>
that simple distance from Terra would be that crucial, except that the<BR>
"Solomani" of Lishun Sector are more likely to be acculturated Vilani<BR>
than those of Diaspora.<BR>
<BR>
Just out of curiosity - the Ziru Sirka had 15,000 worlds, the Third<BR>
Imperium 11,000.  Where were the extra 4,000?  I'm guessing the<BR>
systems to trailing which are now independent client states, and the<BR>
row of sectors to coreward which are now part of the Vargr Extents,<BR>
but does anyone know better?<BR>
<BR>
>  All of which explains why in M:1100 you have frustrated Solomani<BR>
>supremacists discovering that their family history of being pure<BR>
>Solomani is a myth based on someone toadying up to the invading<BR>
>incompetents back around the mid third millenium...<BR>
<BR>
That's why the Long Night happened - the Terranised Vilani wanted to<BR>
cover their tracks and destroy the record of their true ancestry...<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
(whose entire "military" experience was joining the Scouts as a<BR>
teenager, and I don't mean the IISS)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:57:20 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: RE: laws<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:11:09 +1000<BR>
>From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
><BR>
>Hmmm... a society where the Laywers do not get paid... actually I can<BR>
>almost see it. Lots of people represent themselves. In this society,<BR>
>legal knowledge is almost second nature. Well... maybe! <BR>
><BR>
>Is it illegal for the prosecutors as well? If so... who does the<BR>
>prosecution? <BR>
<BR>
Easy - you set up an inquisitorial rather than adversarial legal<BR>
system.  The judge gets paid a salary by the state, and has powers to<BR>
conduct investigations and gather evidence directly rather than just<BR>
assess the evidence presented to him/her.<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:57:22 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
A few points, based on my knowledge gained working for the UK<BR>
subsidiary of a Swedish company and working with our lawyers who<BR>
managed our copyrights (but IANALmyself):<BR>
<BR>
Unlike copyright which is pretty much an automatic right, trademarks<BR>
have to be specifically registered, usually on a country-by-country<BR>
basis.  These days you can register a pan-European trademark, but that<BR>
option wasn't available a few years ago.  <BR>
<BR>
Each trademark applies to specific categories of product, and it's<BR>
entirely legal for someone else to use the same name for a product in<BR>
a different category.<BR>
<BR>
It's not generally possible to trademark "normal words", although<BR>
sometimes people get away with it.<BR>
<BR>
It may be possible to challenge ownership of a trademark if the owner<BR>
doesn't appear to be using it for anything, or appears to allow other<BR>
people to use the name without preventing them (unlike copyright which<BR>
is an absolute right).  That's how words like "hoover" and "aspirin"<BR>
get into general speech.<BR>
<BR>
Regardless of whether or not you own a trademark, many countries make<BR>
it illegal for a competitor to deliberately use your product's name<BR>
and branding in an attempt to deceive the customer.<BR>
<BR>
I do wonder about a Swedish game being called "Traveller", rather than<BR>
the Swedish translation or the American spelling of the word - it does<BR>
seem suspicious...<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:55:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: laws<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Have you ever *read* any laws?<BR>
><BR>
> Yoohoo!  I *am* a lawyer.<BR>
<BR>
Ah. Then you are *immediately* disqualified from rendering an opinion<BR>
on the readability of laws. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> <Smootch><BR>
<BR>
Gee, I didn't think you cared... <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:00:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Panels (Was: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Quite possibly, even in another room altogether from where it is sent to the<BR>
> required work station.  Also, if I had a recent game (and with the Classic<BR>
> reprints, that's not beyond happening), I'd probably say that the upper and<BR>
> side surfaces of onboard computers and control panels were all sealed, and<BR>
> that removable media was accessed via, say an underside where a desk has a<BR>
> ledge or some-such, so that any spillage would run safely away and not into,<BR>
> and even that would be "sealable" with a cover/door/flap/panel...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, with optical media, you could just drop it into a vertical<BR>
slot that had a couple of "pegs" to keep it from falling through. The<BR>
slot goes all the way through and can be cleaned by "hosing it out". <BR>
<BR>
A simple mechanical lever will pop the media back out. The scanning<BR>
mechanism is sealed, and the media doesn't move. It figures out the<BR>
orientation of the media and "sweeps" the beam across it to read the<BR>
data. <BR>
<BR>
None of this nonsense of moving a read head *and* spinning the media.<BR>
Heck, at higher TLs, the beam may be scanned via phased arrays of laser<BR>
diodes or some such. No moving parts.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 05:14:50 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In copyright, it is permissable for two organisations to have the same name,<BR>
> provided they are in totally unrelated fields. "Centrelink", for instance is not<BR>
> a unique name - but it is unique within its field.<BR>
<BR>
You are confusing trademark and copyright law.<BR>
<BR>
Please don't do that.  For your own sake.<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 05:28:59 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: laws<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ah. Then you are *immediately* disqualified from rendering an opinion<BR>
> on the readability of laws. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Haha.  I don't write.  I complain about how badly they are written.<BR>
The foundation for what I wrote earlier was the Uniform Commercial<BR>
Code.  This is a body of commercial laws that was written to reflect<BR>
the way that business *is* done, not how it *should* be done.  It<BR>
was created by the American Bar Association over many years and<BR>
with incredible amounts of business input.  When business needs change,<BR>
such as with the growth of digital transaction and such, it changes.<BR>
Most US States have implemented some version of the UCC, often<BR>
customizing certain sections for their own needs, though IIRC, some<BR>
have adopted it in toto.  It is pretty much invisible to the average<BR>
person,<BR>
but it is, IMHO, one of the best 'successes' in American law.  Certainly,<BR>
<BR>
it isn't perfect.  But it is a big step in the direction of making law<BR>
understandable to those who need to understand it.<BR>
<BR>
Why computer AI might help is that it is a huge and interconnected thing.<BR>
<BR>
I found it much easier to understand particularly complicated sections<BR>
when I made HTML pages of those sections so that I could simply<BR>
click through the particulars of a given situation ("fact pattern" in<BR>
legal<BR>
parlance) to find what I needed.  Although it would take some work to<BR>
do well, it could probably be put onto a PalmPilot so you could tap<BR>
through it.  A generation of tech later, and an AI might be able to<BR>
search<BR>
through it to answer questions.  Another generation or two and it might<BR>
be able to identify issues for you ahead of time, as soon as it downloads<BR>
<BR>
the laws of the area it is in (which might already be outdated as you<BR>
said).<BR>
<BR>
I don't suggest that other areas of law will be as easy to handle in this<BR>
<BR>
manner.  But the area of business law is particularly conducive to it.<BR>
"Business will out."<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3095<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3096</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/25/00 4:37:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Monday, September 25 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3096<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
Terminal Velocity<BR>
RE: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
RE: laws<BR>
RE: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
RE: laws<BR>
Trav-a-maniacs<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
Re: Laws<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
RE: Alcohol<BR>
Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
Re: Usingou/Ziafrplians Sector<BR>
Re: Usingou/Ziafrplians Sector<BR>
World Builder Sector File Format (WBS) - Proposed Changes<BR>
Re: Deckplans format<BR>
RE: laws<BR>
Re: laws<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
RE: laws<BR>
Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
RE: TML Landgrab - Ficant<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 06:04:04 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
Stephen Tempest wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> A few points, based on my knowledge gained working for the UK<BR>
> subsidiary of a Swedish company and working with our lawyers who<BR>
> managed our copyrights (but IANALmyself):<BR>
><BR>
> Unlike copyright which is pretty much an automatic right, trademarks<BR>
> have to be specifically registered, usually on a country-by-country<BR>
> basis.<BR>
<BR>
Trademarks do not always need to be registered.<BR>
The "TM" symbol is able to be used by anyone at anytime without<BR>
registration, in the US anyway.  That symbol is merely the *assertion*<BR>
of a trademark, not evidence of one.  The circle-R is evidence of<BR>
a registered trademark.<BR>
<BR>
> Each trademark applies to specific categories of product, and it's<BR>
> entirely legal for someone else to use the same name for a product in<BR>
> a different category.<BR>
<BR>
Not true uniformly.  In the US, it can vary.  Defending or attacking<BR>
a trademark is usually a fight about defining the market.  Win that<BR>
fight and you win the larger dispute.  Sometimes markets get defined<BR>
broadly.<BR>
<BR>
Furthermore, "dilution" of a trademark is actionable in the US, and<BR>
that can apply to products in different market.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> It's not generally possible to trademark "normal words", although<BR>
> sometimes people get away with it.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it is generally possible.  It depends on the relation between<BR>
the product and the word.  In the US, if the word is descriptive of the<BR>
product (or is generic), it will generally be prevented from getting a<BR>
"registered" trademark.  But if the word is not-descriptive (the technical<BR>
<BR>
categories you need for registration are "fanciful", "arbitrary" or<BR>
"suggestive")<BR>
of the product, it is a totally different story.  For example, if I sell a<BR>
line<BR>
of hammers called "Racecar", there will be no problem.  But if I call them<BR>
<BR>
"Pounders", an application for registration would normally be rejected.<BR>
That doesn't prevent me from getting trademark right.  I can call the<BR>
hammers<BR>
"Pounders (TM)" and establish a trademark that way.  It just isn't as good<BR>
<BR>
a trademark as the circle-R.<BR>
<BR>
Why get the circle-R?  Triple damages!  :-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> It may be possible to challenge ownership of a trademark if the owner<BR>
> doesn't appear to be using it for anything, or appears to allow other<BR>
> people to use the name without preventing them (unlike copyright which<BR>
> is an absolute right).  That's how words like "hoover" and "aspirin"<BR>
> get into general speech.<BR>
<BR>
First of all, copyright is NOT absolute!  Never has been.  Probably never<BR>
will be.<BR>
<BR>
Secondly, 'genericide', is different from 'abandonment' of a mark.<BR>
When a word becomes generic, the company using that word as a<BR>
trademark (technically a 'word mark') won't be able to restrict other's<BR>
use of the mark.  This is why Coca Cola has a team of people to<BR>
enforce the proper use of its mark around the world (They go into<BR>
restraurants and the like, order a 'coke', and if they get anything but<BR>
coca-cola, there is hell to pay!), i.e., to prevent "coke" from becoming<BR>
generic.<BR>
<BR>
Abandonment is a principle of 'equity'.  Since rights to a trademark are<BR>
created by the usage of a mark, failure to use it defeats the purpose.<BR>
Thus, 'use it or lose it'.<BR>
<BR>
The difference is that a mark that is being used must fight 'genericide'<BR>
while the holder is using the mark.  A mark not being used will be<BR>
considered abandoned after a period of time.<BR>
<BR>
There are also 'naked licenses', that can be created by error (in which<BR>
case you sue you lawyer for malpractice), or by failure to police the<BR>
mark, i.e., not stopping other people from using the mark.  (Note:<BR>
this feature of the law *forces* companies to write nasty "Cease and<BR>
Desist" letters without regard to the scale of the infringing use.)  This<BR>
is essentially considered constructive abandonment.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Regardless of whether or not you own a trademark, many countries make<BR>
> it illegal for a competitor to deliberately use your product's name<BR>
> and branding in an attempt to deceive the customer.<BR>
<BR>
Which is essentially counterfeiting.  A big no-no.  Triple damages!<BR>
And, in the US, federal cops with MP5s and body armor busting<BR>
your counterfeiting sweatshop.  Woohoo!<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
Disclaimer: I am a lawyer but I am not your lawyer.<BR>
<BR>
Caution:  No offense to Mr. Tempest, but the reader should always<BR>
be wary of any statements about law, from lawyers and non-lawyers<BR>
alike.  Several times I have seen statements of law made by posters<BR>
on this list that were 100% incorrect.  Of course, everything I have said<BR>
is most often limited to the US, and this list has a broader readership<BR>
than that, so what I say may be incorrect for particular readers.  Though<BR>
I often look something up to reconfirm my points before I post them,<BR>
I don't always and there is always the possibility of recent changes I<BR>
am not up to speed on.  So, DON'T EVER RELY ON THE LEGAL<BR>
STATEMENTS OF ANY POST ON THIS LIST.  Fortunately,<BR>
the web is a very good place to find accurate and up to date information<BR>
rather quickly.  Often, at worst, all that is needed is a legalese<BR>
translator<BR>
for certain concepts and terms of art. You're bright people.  You can<BR>
figure most of it out.<BR>
<BR>
However, I must say that I am losing patience over the casualness with<BR>
which some posters issue statements of law.  So please remember two<BR>
things that help me get through life, and might help you:<BR>
<BR>
1) Legal questions are ALWAYS more complicated than they appear<BR>
(That is how we stay in business),<BR>
<BR>
and<BR>
<BR>
2) Copyright law IS NOT trademark law!!!!  They are totally different<BR>
beasts!!!  Please!!  For the love of Thor!  Don't confuse them!  You can<BR>
only benefit.  Amaze your friends by understanding the difference.  Bust<BR>
them when they make the error.  You'll get 10 Points of Intellectual<BR>
Snobbery!  :-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:39:18 +0100<BR>
From: Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie><BR>
Subject: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
Hey guys...<BR>
Slighly OT, but sparked off by the recent Orbital Bombarment thread. How<BR>
could I work out the terminal velocity of say a 1 ton block of stone?<BR>
How far need it fall in say 1g to reach this speed?<BR>
(I can then work out the damage by Ke = 1/2 mv^2)<BR>
Why, I hear you ask? A fantasy campaign I'm working on has flying ships.<BR>
I want to know what a few of these woudl do when dropped from a mile or<BR>
two up...<BR>
<BR>
- -Brian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:39:52 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> > I'm getting the impression that if you wanted to,<BR>
> > you could have an 'orbital gun', for more precise<BR>
> > strikes.  For example, say I'm in orbit and I want<BR>
> > to really cripple a world, or a portion thereof, but<BR>
> > I want to minimize collateral damage.  Instead of<BR>
> > bombing the target into the stoneage, I want to<BR>
> > totally destroy key infrastructure elements: starports,<BR>
> > bridges, power plants, etc. Say 5 kilotons at impact.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Is this feasible?<BR>
> <BR>
> Easily. <BR>
> <BR>
> > Is there an easy way to calculate what is necessary<BR>
> > back from the desired kilotonnage?<BR>
> <BR>
> Sure. 5 kilotons is 1/200th of a meagaton. 1 megaton = 4.2e15 Joules.<BR>
> So 5 kilotons = 21e12 Joules. Going back to the formula for kinetic<BR>
> energy: Ke = .5 * M * V^2<BR>
> <BR>
> 21e12 = .5 * M * V^2<BR>
> 42e12 = M * V^2<BR>
> <BR>
> pick a convenient mass and you'll get the velocity. Pick a convenient<BR>
> velocity, and you get the mass required.<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Sorry if this has already been covered  (coming  to  this  thread<BR>
late) but wouldn't you get a problem  with  atmospheric  ablation<BR>
that  increases  as  projectile  size   decreases?   Very   small<BR>
bombardment projectiles might loose half their mass  on  the  way<BR>
down.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:00:10 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: laws<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hmmm... a society where the Laywers do not get paid... actually I can<BR>
> almost see it. Lots of people represent themselves. In this society,<BR>
> legal knowledge is almost second nature.<BR>
<BR>
Two words: Medieval Iceland<BR>
<BR>
                - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:57:36 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
Patrik Holmstrm wrote:<BR>
> When I was looking at the olympics I spotted a commersial for <BR>
> a swedish computer game called Traveller. Is this a violation<BR>
> of the Traveller trademark (I'm no expert on copyright laws)?<BR>
<BR>
IIRC Iomega has a computer hardware product called  a  Traveller,<BR>
too.  (I think it was something  for  connecting  Zip  drives  to<BR>
laptops or something.)  The name was written  in  an  Optima-like<BR>
font in yellow  on  a  black  background.  The  shade  of  yellow<BR>
matched that of the original Striker books.  When I first saw  it<BR>
in my local computer shop the similarity in the  logo  style  was<BR>
enough to do a major doubletake!<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:13:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net><BR>
Subject: RE: laws<BR>
<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:11:09 +1000<BR>
>>From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
>><BR>
>>Hmmm... a society where the Laywers do not get paid... actually I can<BR>
>>almost see it. Lots of people represent themselves. In this society,<BR>
>>legal knowledge is almost second nature. Well... maybe! <BR>
>><BR>
>>Is it illegal for the prosecutors as well? If so... who does the<BR>
>>prosecution? <BR>
><BR>
>Easy - you set up an inquisitorial rather than adversarial legal<BR>
>system.  The judge gets paid a salary by the state, and has powers to<BR>
>conduct investigations and gather evidence directly rather than just<BR>
>assess the evidence presented to him/her.<BR>
<BR>
Or, the person who witnessed the crime acts as prosecutor (Athens in classical Greece, I think).<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:00:56 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "William 'Commander X' Prankard" <cmdrx@ao.net><BR>
Subject: Trav-a-maniacs<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:55:28 +1100<BR>
>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
>Subject: RE: Subsurface sandwiches<BR>
<BR>
>Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
>Chris wrote:<BR>
>>I can see the title card now:<BR>
>><BR>
>>"Fiegeltoons presents: Slappy the Spacehand in 'Clobber the Mind<BR>
Robbers!'"<BR>
<BR>
>"Dulinor and Lucan want to rule the universe,<BR>
>The Zhos begin invading, Seldrian whacks them with her purse,<BR>
>The Vargr eat up Lishun, while Strephon mopes in verse,<BR>
>Vi-rus was tripped,<BR>
>The Hivers flipped,<BR>
>The Long Night we rehearse!"<BR>
<BR>
Here's a new filk I came up with after reading this.  My first Trav-filk.<BR>
Feel free to put this one right up there with the others Mr. Berry ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor and Lucan (sung to Pinky and the Brain)<BR>
<BR>
They're Dulinor and Lucan<BR>
Dulinor and Lucan.<BR>
One is D'lani, the other's insane!<BR>
Each one thinks he's right<BR>
for the Iridium throne they fight!<BR>
They're Dulinor, Dulinor and Lucan, can, can , can...<BR>
<BR>
Before Hard Times are gone,<BR>
Virus amok will run.<BR>
By the end of the war<BR>
They'd have destroyed the Imperium!<BR>
<BR>
They're Dulinor and Lucan<BR>
Dulinor and Lucan<BR>
The Black War campains<BR>
are easy to explain.<BR>
Lucan's laboratories might<BR>
bring about the next Long Night!<BR>
They're Dulinor, Dulinor and Lucan, can, can, can...NARF!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
\\    //  Commander X<BR>
 \\  //   CEO X-TEK Industries of Deneb, LIC<BR>
  T E K   Starship Contractor & High Energy Weapons Research<BR>
 //  \\   http://www.ao.net/~cmdrx/xtek<BR>
//    \\  0608 D557777-A kk- va+ so+ zh+ da+ A723<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:03:54 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Not true uniformly.  In the US, it can vary.  Defending or attacking<BR>
> a trademark is usually a fight about defining the market.  Win that<BR>
> fight and you win the larger dispute.  Sometimes markets get defined<BR>
> broadly.<BR>
> <BR>
> Furthermore, "dilution" of a trademark is actionable in the US, and<BR>
> that can apply to products in different market.<BR>
<BR>
And of course, 'it all depends' Sometimes markets are defined very<BR>
narrowly.<BR>
<BR>
Foex, there are two computer operating systems known and marketed as<BR>
'OS9'. Microware makers of the original OS9 (which started life as the OS<BR>
used in TI 99 computers) sued Apple when they came out with _their_ Mac OS<BR>
9, on dilution grounds.<BR>
<BR>
Eventually the judge ruled that the two markets were sufficiently<BR>
different that Apple's use of OS 9 was unlikely to impact Microware's<BR>
business, (other than the fact that Microware got their name in the media<BR>
about 9,453,621 times because of the lawsuit) because their market is<BR>
embedded systems, and that it would be extraordinarily difficult to<BR>
imagine that an engineer designing an embedded controller system would<BR>
spec Mac OS 9 instead of Microware's OS9, or that a consumer would go to<BR>
Microware's site and order OS9 for their iMac.<BR>
<BR>
Now since this was soon after Apple won their trademark (more specifically<BR>
'trade dress') dispute with E-Machines over E-machines lame attempt at<BR>
making an iMac lookalike, lotsa people (mostly clueless NAL's on slashdot) <BR>
went 'Huh???'<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:14:25 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Laws<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, there are two basic models of law being used today, although I<BR>
can't remember what they're called.  One is based more on "common sense"<BR>
and tends to have simpler language associated with it, the other tends to <BR>
get into greater complexities of verbiage.  The former is french in<BR>
origin, the latter english, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
The french model is actually quite understandable to normal folks.  For<BR>
instance, reading the laws of Quebec always seems pretty straight-forward<BR>
to me.  They get very detailed and include a lot of exceptions and stuff,<BR>
but it's all in plain english (or french).  Kinda reminds me of GURPS<BR>
rules, actually <g,d,r>.  <BR>
<BR>
Whether you could interpret a system's laws adequately would partially<BR>
depend on which kind of model they were using.  Considering the vast<BR>
number of traditions in the Imperium, there would likely be a continuum<BR>
from byzantine self-contradictory verbo-mush to plain Anglic guidelines.<BR>
Not sure which end of the scale would dominate, but the Vilani penchant<BR>
for anal-retentiveness might suggest complex language would be more<BR>
common.  The Solomani would likely be dominated by english-style systems,<BR>
unless there was some kind of reform at some point, so theirs would not be<BR>
a counter-influence.<BR>
<BR>
As for free traders getting fongued by laws, I suspect a tidy little<BR>
business could be made of keeping track of local codes and writing basic<BR>
lay-person summaries.  Might be something the TAS would do.  Something<BR>
along the lines of "Tarsus's 500 page codex on trade transactions<BR>
basically boils down to 'do what you said you were going to do or suffer<BR>
the wrath of mob justice'.  Those thinking that the planet's essentially<BR>
non-existent law level means free rein should consider that in the last<BR>
year on record there were:  7 tar-and-feathering incidents, 5 gun shot<BR>
injuries, and one case of a man being dragged behind a nobble for several<BR>
miles; all related to cheating on contracts. Aside from this basic notion<BR>
of contractual obligation, however, there is little in the way of<BR>
regulations." <BR>
<BR>
Okay, so that was kinda facetious (but pretty well a good rendition of<BR>
Tarsus IMTU) but you get the idea. The TAS (or merchants' guild, or<BR>
whoever) would charge a modest sum for guides to the worlds of different<BR>
sub-sectors and so on.  Of course, these wouldn't always be up-to-date<BR>
or even accurate... <BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:16:29 CEST<BR>
From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
>I do wonder about a Swedish game being called "Traveller", rather than<BR>
>the Swedish translation or the American spelling of the word - it does<BR>
>seem suspicious...<BR>
<BR>
Not really, Swedish schools teach English spelling and many Swedish games <BR>
have English names (I guess it sounds cooler ie Backpacker, Safecracker).<BR>
<BR>
Neither the commercial nor any of the reviews I've found have had any <BR>
additional information (the commercial should have the manufacturers name <BR>
but I haven't been able to read it any of the three times I've seen it). <BR>
I'll swing by the local computer shop (Softland, shares a building with the <BR>
cafe Submarine, more examples of the above) and check with them.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:<BR>
How strong is the "cultural imperialism" in the Traveller universe? <BR>
Certainly the cool names will be Anglic and not Viliani.<BR>
<BR>
Patrik<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:39:54 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Alcohol<BR>
<BR>
>Well, I'll admit that I *haven't* checked with the OLCC. I was going<BR>
>from the fact that O'Douls is sold with the beers at stores and treated<BR>
>the same by them.<BR>
<BR>
It may simply be a matter of convenience.<BR>
<BR>
>ps. Would you please be sure to put a "Subject:" line in your headers?<BR>
>My software gets rather upset when there isn't one.<BR>
<BR>
No problem, although I am wondering where the subject line wandered off to.<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:32:04 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Beyond the Spinward Marches!<BR>
<BR>
As a separate issue:<BR>
<BR>
There are versions of several solomani sectors in the Core data, but on <BR>
inspection they are rather poor quality.  In particular, it is notable that<BR>
Aldebaran sector does not include either Aldebaran or Home and does include<BR>
a TL-18 pop-A port-A world which mysteriously isn't completely disrupting the<BR>
nearby balance of power, and Langere sector has hiver worlds but does not <BR>
appear to use the hiver world generation rules.<BR>
<BR>
Are there any other variant versions of the solomani sectors out there?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:53:05 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Usingou/Ziafrplians Sector<BR>
<BR>
Hm...a minor oops, at least in the .sec file -- you have some doubled up<BR>
stars.  For now, I'm removing Vazia and Tanjchiadda.<BR>
<BR>
Vazia         0139 E456259-8    Lo Ni              615 Zh G2V <BR>
Qrashiyaflam  0139 B210553-A    Ni                 122 Zh K3V<BR>
<BR>
and<BR>
<BR>
Tanjchiadda   0140 A675653-B    Ag Ni              803 Zh F7V <BR>
Ziashovrchakr 0140 C66999A-B  Z Hi In              203 Zh F1V<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:53:05 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Usingou/Ziafrplians Sector<BR>
<BR>
Hm...a minor oops, at least in the .sec file -- you have some doubled up<BR>
stars.  For now, I'm removing Vazia and Tanjchiadda.<BR>
<BR>
Vazia         0139 E456259-8    Lo Ni              615 Zh G2V <BR>
Qrashiyaflam  0139 B210553-A    Ni                 122 Zh K3V<BR>
<BR>
and<BR>
<BR>
Tanjchiadda   0140 A675653-B    Ag Ni              803 Zh F7V <BR>
Ziashovrchakr 0140 C66999A-B  Z Hi In              203 Zh F1V<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:09:20 +0100<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: World Builder Sector File Format (WBS) - Proposed Changes<BR>
<BR>
One of the main things that has continually annoyed me about my WBS File<BR>
Format is my omission of Travel Zones. When I originally created World<BR>
Builder I did not see the need to include them in the WBS file.<BR>
<BR>
Now that World Builder has  progressed through World Builder Deluxe to<BR>
Heaven & Earth I am becoming increasingly concerned. Accordingly I am<BR>
proposing to change the WBS file format by including Travel Zone coding.<BR>
This would be placed between the Allegiance Code and the Satellite Code in<BR>
the file.<BR>
<BR>
I would also propose to change the name of the file from WBS to HES (Heaven<BR>
& Earth Sector File). Heaven & Earth would remain compatible with both file<BR>
formats.<BR>
<BR>
I feel that this would be a real improvement to the file format and also to<BR>
the functionality of H&E. All comments would be appreciated. If anyone else<BR>
would like to propose some changes please feel free to voice them now.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:21:40 +0100<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deckplans format<BR>
<BR>
Bryan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Not for me (if and when I scrape up the funds for a new system I'll more <BR>
>probably have it partitioned to run Linux among a couple of others, but in <BR>
>the meantime), I can't afford to buy acrobat (unless I sell a lot more<BR>
copies <BR>
>of the CD), though I could probably have others do it (and PDF takes up <BR>
>substantially less room than eps).<BR>
<BR>
Ghostscript is free and there are ports to almost every platform.<BR>
<BR>
Get Ghostscript 6 and it doesn't even seem to cause problems with fonts.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:45:01 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: RE: laws<BR>
<BR>
>From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
<BR>
>I believe it was the Roman Emperor Tiberius (it was certainly one of the<BR>
Claudians) who had his >big chance to change things. He almost made it<BR>
illegal for lawyers to accept payment for their<BR>
>services. Since we have adopted a good part of the Roman tradition, we<BR>
might have adopted that<BR>
>part too.<BR>
><BR>
>It's not too far-fetched that such a culture would exist somewhere in the<BR>
Traveller universe.<BR>
>Now that's a place I would like to vist.<BR>
<BR>
If the Veteran's Administration ever causes you any harm (and you are a<BR>
veteran and will most likely someday be an old veteran), you will be in that<BR>
place.  Lawyers' fees are capped at $10 per case.  As a result, lawyers do<BR>
not handle VA cases, and veterans are on their own.  As an articulate and<BR>
well-educated former officer, you will probably handle the bureaucracy fine<BR>
on your own -- until Alzheimer's hits you in a few decades and you really<BR>
need some help.<BR>
<BR>
The stated reason for the cap on the fee was to protect veterans from<BR>
lawyers.  The result has been to protect the VA from veterans who could<BR>
effectively pursue their rights.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:21:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: laws<BR>
<BR>
From: Stephen Tempest <stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
>Easy - you set up an inquisitorial rather than adversarial legal<BR>
>system.  The judge gets paid a salary by the state, and has powers to<BR>
>conduct investigations and gather evidence directly rather than just<BR>
>assess the evidence presented to him/her.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Sounds like the French System of Justice & we all know how well that<BR>
works.  *weg*<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:11:43 CEST<BR>
From: "Patrik Holmstrm" <glappkaeft@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
I've checked with the computerstore and the company is "Vision Park" with a <BR>
website at "http://www.visionpark.com". They have a page in both Swedish and <BR>
English but the English page have not been updated with the "Traveller" game <BR>
when I checked (CET 2100).<BR>
<BR>
Patrik<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:34:30 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: laws<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: John P. Raynor [mailto:john.raynor@yale.edu]<BR>
> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 11:00 PM<BR>
> To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>
> Subject: RE: laws<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Hmmm... a society where the Laywers do not get paid... <BR>
> actually I can<BR>
> > almost see it. Lots of people represent themselves. In this society,<BR>
> > legal knowledge is almost second nature.<BR>
> <BR>
> Two words: Medieval Iceland<BR>
<BR>
:) <BR>
Having never been to, nor having studied medieval Iceland, I may require<BR>
further explanation! <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:07:33 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 3I Software Standards Control Board<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:51:27 -0700<BR>
> From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
> <BR>
> When I was a consultant, I did some work for a client who wanted 99%<BR>
> availability on one system and 95% on another. The 99% was achievable,<BR>
> using extremely expensive telco-quality UNIX systems, but the price was<BR>
> staggering. The vendor did claim that their systems could achieve<BR>
> 99.9999% availability, but that's extremely hard to test. How long do<BR>
> you expect to run a system to get a failure at that level of<BR>
> reliability? <BR>
<BR>
Depends on how long the outages last -- and this factor is routinely and<BR>
disastrously neglected in Service Level Agreements (SLAs).  Consider that<BR>
that a six-9s availability figure would be met by a system that failed<BR>
once every second, for a microsecond each time.  A lot can get lost or<BR>
scrambled in a microsecond...  Conversely, if outages last a year (the<BR>
system melts to slag, perhaps), the mean time before failure is half a<BR>
million years.  Of course, it *could* also happen next week. <BR>
<BR>
Risk and failure analysis are notoriously tricky fields, filled with<BR>
counterintuitive results.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:32:30 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: TML Landgrab - Ficant<BR>
<BR>
I'm glad to see others are involved in Landgrab...I'm<BR>
also using First In as my start...can't seem to find<BR>
my copy of Scouts or the Worldbuilding section of<BR>
Megatraveller...D'Ganzio/Lanth is where I've<BR>
chosen...anyone else claimed it before 25 September<BR>
2000 (Old Solomani Calendar)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.<BR>
http://im.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:35:22 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
"Patrik Holmstrm" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<smip>><BR>
> <BR>
> ObTrav:<BR>
> How strong is the "cultural imperialism" in the Traveller universe?<BR>
> Certainly the cool names will be Anglic and not Viliani.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, if modern product names (particularly for automobiles)<BR>
provide the paradigm for product names in the 3I, most of them will have<BR>
made-up names which sound as if they are derived from various archaic<BR>
languages, including (but not limited to) Old High Vilani, Pre-Stellar<BR>
English, and (of course) Latin.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3096<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3097</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 26 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3097<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Jump Point Distance (was: Re: 'breaking news')<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
Re: "101 Vehicles"<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: World Builder Sector File Format (WBS) - Proposed Changes<BR>
RE: TML Landgrab - Ficant<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
Re: laws<BR>
Re: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
Re: laws (Now with Ob.Trav!)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:40:56 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Jump Point Distance (was: Re: 'breaking news')<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Dave wrote:<BR>
>Well I'm still awfull fond of 100D beaing an absolute as opposed<BR>
>to a fudged rule of thumb. I get down right cantankerous on this<BR>
>actually.<BR>
<BR>
There was an extremely good TML article on using a gravitational stress model<BR>
instead of the 100 diameter model.<BR>
<BR>
The problem with the 100D model is how the description and calculation don't<BR>
gell. It says that 100D is the distance necessary to be far enough out of a<BR>
gravity well for a ship to jump. However, it takes no account of the density of<BR>
the planet. This will obviously affect the planet's mass, and thus the size of<BR>
the gravity well.<BR>
<BR>
The gravitational stress model takes account of this variation. As for the<BR>
results, it was designed so that the distance to jump point for worlds with<BR>
standard density matched the canonical 100D limit.<BR>
<BR>
I thought it worked rather well. It makes more "scientific" sense, while still<BR>
retaining the notion of an absolute line in space that you must cross in order<BR>
to jump safely.<BR>
<BR>
The only problem is that you need to know the density of the planet (although<BR>
tools such as _Heaven and Earth_ are making this task easier, Imperium-wide!!<BR>
:-). My rule is that if I don't know, just fall back on the old 100D rule. After<BR>
all, it's really only important when you are doing a hot running jump away from<BR>
that SDB, right? (Since density variations even out both up AND down, I'd be<BR>
highly surprised if they affected anything else at all - Far Trader economics,<BR>
for instance!)<BR>
<BR>
Guess I'll just have to dig out that old article (one of my many web projects is<BR>
to make all of my TML archives available. Someday, maybe, right now I'm trying<BR>
to get the Golden Wanderer and the Eisern Faust scanned and published!).<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:58:52 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Well that explains why the PBS royalty cheques have been getting smaller.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Terry Carlino <carlino@home.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 10:32 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Highly jealous here. My local PBS station doesn't even carry Dr. Who<BR>
> anymore, haven't for over a decade.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Terry C<BR>
> All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
> Not all who travel are lost<BR>
> <BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
> Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 12:44 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
> <BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) sez:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>     Red Dwarf.  Season 7.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Hey! No spoilers. We just started season 1 here! <g><BR>
> ><BR>
> >Last show had Lister getting pregnant.<BR>
> <BR>
>  Alright, I've been boggled. Leonard not being familiar with Red Dwarf is...<BR>
> well, it's... er... unexpected?<BR>
> <BR>
>  Red Dwarf has been part of the in-joke lexicon in my gaming circles for<BR>
> YEARS, so I tend to forget that one of our local PBS affiliates is rather<BR>
> unique. Sunday nights we get a mix of Red Dwarf, Dr. Who, Space Island One,<BR>
> anime of various sorts (Urusei Yatsura for a long time, Evangelion recently,<BR>
> and Please Save My Earth at the moment), and the New Red Green Show. Most of<BR>
> these are shown nowhere else among the US PBS community, and only a few hit<BR>
> cable...<BR>
> <BR>
> GC<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 01:02:42 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Re: Blackadder.<BR>
<BR>
If I had a penny for every time a player/character said 'I have a cunning plan'<BR>
or variations of, I'd have 3.26.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 01:05:52 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
Kenny Everett had a sketch...<BR>
<BR>
'Finding it difficult to park? Get a Sherman Tank.'<BR>
<BR>
With appropriate live action visuals.<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 4:38 AM<BR>
Subject: RE: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: The Roc [mailto:roc@kewl.com.au]<BR>
> <BR>
> <snip><BR>
> <BR>
> > Though my missus wouldn't understand LAW or TAC, she does <BR>
> > remember fondly<BR>
> > the rides in an APC (a 113) on various open days... cutting <BR>
> > through the<BR>
> > bush, the swamp, and over old, dumped car shells... :^)<BR>
> <BR>
> Ahhh... the old dream of driving a tank to work! Traffic... not a<BR>
> problem!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:55:16 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: "101 Vehicles"<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
>>Interestingly, there already is a "101 Vehicles" for MT.<BR>
><BR>
>When I finally got around to reading it I immediately put it in the<BR>
>"to re-sell" heap - something I have not done with any other Traveller<BR>
>material from GDW/DGP. The stats were of less use than the equivalent<BR>
>in Striker, and the art and text were not an improvement from there :(<BR>
<BR>
That's a pity. I thought some designs were quite interesting, such as the Tiamat<BR>
undersea mining crawler. And it was nice to have all the old classic designs<BR>
(Resolve, Trepida, hydrofoil bike from Adv 9, the old Aslan Thunderer and<BR>
Lightning military craft from FASA, the belter bus, Z80, etc etc) in one place,<BR>
even if the Trepida was a tin can.<BR>
<BR>
I mean, the weapons are straight out of _Striker_. What you needed was my<BR>
"Armour Re-distribution spreadsheet" (Beowulf Down ==> Repair Bays). It's a bit<BR>
of a fudge, but allows you to convert MT all-around armour to Striker's<BR>
distributed armour. Although I cheated when it came to using it on the Trepida -<BR>
I doubled the armour before conversion, otherwise the numbers were just silly<BR>
for the "premier Imperial MBT". The _101 Vehicles_ version, with its low AF 40,<BR>
really IS just a tin can!! (For all TNE's problems, I _liked_ what it did with<BR>
Trepida!)<BR>
<BR>
Oh, and ignore those who argue in favour of all-round armour, "since threats can<BR>
come from any direction". Just read David Drake or play "Ground Control".<BR>
<BR>
Or both. ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:04:15 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
bloo wrote:<BR>
>>In copyright, it is permissable for two organisations to have the same name,<BR>
>>provided they are in totally unrelated fields.<BR>
><BR>
>You are confusing trademark and copyright law.<BR>
><BR>
>Please don't do that.  For your own sake.<BR>
<BR>
Oh! You're right! <hangs head in shame><BR>
<BR>
In my reply, replace "copyright" with "trademarks" and it is correct.<BR>
<BR>
Correct?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:41:07 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Ben Aaronovitch wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Re: Blackadder.<BR>
> <BR>
> If I had a penny for every time a player/character said 'I have a cunning plan'<BR>
> or variations of, I'd have 3.26.<BR>
<BR>
Ah, yes.  Such as an old AD&D character of mine, Oort McLeod, who,<BR>
explaining his unusual name, once said, "I'm from a punning clan."<BR>
<BR>
You now would have 3.27.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:20:12 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
From: Ben Aaronovitch <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Re: Blackadder.<BR>
><BR>
>If I had a penny for every time a player/character said 'I have a cunning<BR>
plan'<BR>
>or variations of, I'd have 3.26.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    <Baldrick Voice> So you would have over 3 & a quarter louds of pennies,<BR>
would that be enough to buy a Turnip big enough to live in? </Baldrick<BR>
Voice><BR>
    Honestly, speaking of Blackadder.  I am currently running a Traveller<BR>
Game using, now, the Icon Rules.  It has the features that die hard<BR>
Traveller Players like, & the GURPS players like it because it is simple for<BR>
them to understand their character, though many have problems with the<BR>
setting.  Like why is the 3I undergoing a civil war.  Anyway, one of the<BR>
Characters is named "Edmund Blackadder the 3000th" & his manservent is<BR>
called "Sod Off Blackadder the 3000th", & in order to get<BR>
Blackadder/Bladrick relationship between them within the game system, I used<BR>
a Dependent for Edmund & an Ally for Baldrick.  So now you can see why<BR>
Edmund is so much better than Baldrick.  Bladrick spent a lot of his<BR>
character points to get Edmund Blackadder as an Ally.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:25:29 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: World Builder Sector File Format (WBS) - Proposed Changes<BR>
<BR>
Stuart, whatever you want to do is GREAT in my estimation! Have at it. I am<BR>
very pleased with H&E and any additions just make it that much more special.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
To: "[Mail] WBD Mailing List" <WBDMailingList@onelist.com>; "[Mail]<BR>
Traveller Digest" <traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 2:09 PM<BR>
Subject: World Builder Sector File Format (WBS) - Proposed Changes<BR>
_________________<SNIP>__________________<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I feel that this would be a real improvement to the file format and also<BR>
to<BR>
> the functionality of H&E. All comments would be appreciated. If anyone<BR>
else<BR>
> would like to propose some changes please feel free to voice them now.<BR>
><BR>
> Stuart Ferris<BR>
> stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
> http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:18:13 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: TML Landgrab - Ficant<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Bernie McGeehan wrote:<BR>
>...D'Ganzio/Lanth is where I've<BR>
>chosen...anyone else claimed it before 25 September<BR>
>2000 (Old Solomani Calendar)<BR>
<BR>
Welcome to the Land Grab, Bernie!<BR>
<BR>
BTW, can I make a general suggestion? It may actually be common sense, but I<BR>
think it would be good practice for all of us to look at all the material we can<BR>
find that covers adjacent worlds - or at least those within 3-4 parsecs. There<BR>
may be useful info and ideas in those descriptions that impinges on our chosen<BR>
world.<BR>
<BR>
Bernie's post triggered this thought off, because in Tavonni's RICE Paper I<BR>
mention D'Ganzio. I said that the Navy built a base on D'Ganzio after the First<BR>
Frontier War, to support their main base at Lanth. This is part of the<BR>
Imperium's defence-in-depth, developed as a counter to any possible Sword World<BR>
incursions. D'Ganzio probably served as the main supply point for Lanth in the<BR>
5FW, since Ghandi was taken by the Zho 40th Fleet.<BR>
<BR>
As well, the opening of Tavonni will increase trade, since there will be easier<BR>
access to Vilis. Is anyone able to do a variant trade route map, assuming<BR>
Tavonni has a class-B port, Scout base, Xboat route, and 150,000 population<BR>
(we're trying for Rich, here! ;-)?? Negotiations to add an Al Morai jump route<BR>
would also be just about complete. :-)<BR>
<BR>
From memory, there's not much info on D'Ganzio, other than being mentioned as<BR>
the place that the _Lorens Ecliptic_ departed from on her final, fateful Abyss<BR>
Rift voyage.<BR>
<BR>
As for polity borders, you can see them on my site under Repair Bays ==><BR>
Spinward Marches Timeline Maps. There's a static and animated version.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:26:46 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
- --0__=f2q8q3eFjKdD0jGqjBxsmDZgg5YdEWUu0WaTDxerKK2cKsprmm5Lww0g<BR>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<BR>
Content-Disposition: inline<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Patrik wrote:<BR>
>I've checked with the computerstore and the company is "Vision Park" with a<BR>
>website at "http://www.visionpark.com"<BR>
<BR>
Thanks, Patrik!<BR>
<BR>
If it is in keeping with the company's other software products, this is a game<BR>
about travelling around present-day Earth. Two of their other products are<BR>
Backpacker and Globetrotter.<BR>
<BR>
From Backpacker's blurb:<BR>
"You have decided to travel around the world. There's just one problem. You<BR>
don't have enough money to make it all the way around. It'll work out, you<BR>
think, as you fill out your passport and transfer what money you have to your<BR>
international credit cards. With your suitcase as your only companion you head<BR>
for the airport. The world is waiting..."<BR>
<BR>
From Globetrotter's blurb:<BR>
"THE WORLD IS AT YOUR FEET! THE JOURNEY STARTS NOW! FROM THE GREAT CITIES OF<BR>
EUROPE AND AMERICA TO THE GAL<BR>
- --0__=f2q8q3eFjKdD0jGqjBxsmDZgg5YdEWUu0WaTDxerKK2cKsprmm5Lww0g<BR>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<BR>
Content-Disposition: inline<BR>
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=C1PAGOS ISLANDS AND THE EXOTIC PARADISE OF<BR>
ZANZIBAR."<BR>
<BR>
"Life as a Globetrotter is not just about travelling around the world -=<BR>
 it's<BR>
also about surviving. For your adventure to be successful, you must pla=<BR>
n your<BR>
trip and get to know the cities you visit, including the various areas =<BR>
and local<BR>
sights."<BR>
<BR>
"You choose a character at the start of the game and have to take good =<BR>
care of<BR>
him or her all the way through the game. You can get jet lag on long fl=<BR>
ights,<BR>
must preferably sleep at night and have to work to earn travelling mone=<BR>
y."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
This probably means "Traveller" will be different enough from _our_ Tra=<BR>
veller to<BR>
co-exist, given some of the recent legal advice on the TML. ;-)<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------=<BR>
- -<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520=<BR>
)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.a=<BR>
u<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity=<BR>
"<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------=<BR>
- -<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely thos=<BR>
e<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, th=<BR>
e<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------=<BR>
- -<BR>
=<BR>
<BR>
- --0__=f2q8q3eFjKdD0jGqjBxsmDZgg5YdEWUu0WaTDxerKK2cKsprmm5Lww0g--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:21:24 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Sorry.. I did not know that I posted them in XML. As the base docs are HTML<BR>
it should be done tonite. :)<BR>
<BR>
(wow.. I did not know my own power. Muhhahahaha) :)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Luther Martin<BR>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 9:05 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Also, 15 Tl12 designs (that are for sale from Tributis Corp.) are now<BR>
> available for download.<BR>
<BR>
Is it possible to post the designs in HTML only, rather than XML? Browsers<BR>
have a heck of a time saving the XML documents. The alternative appears to<BR>
be to save and then edit the HTML for the separate sheets, removing the code<BR>
where you test whether or not the sheet is being displayed in the main<BR>
window, replacing the if(....) with if(1!=1) seems to do the job, but I<BR>
would hate to have to manually edit every design which is posted.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:21:17 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
Brian Caball wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hey guys...<BR>
> Slighly OT, but sparked off by the recent Orbital Bombarment thread. How<BR>
> could I work out the terminal velocity of say a 1 ton block of stone?<BR>
> How far need it fall in say 1g to reach this speed?<BR>
> (I can then work out the damage by Ke = 1/2 mv^2)<BR>
> Why, I hear you ask? A fantasy campaign I'm working on has flying ships.<BR>
> I want to know what a few of these woudl do when dropped from a mile or<BR>
> two up...<BR>
<BR>
Someone should look this up to verify it, but I think that terminal velocity<BR>
of a sphere is given by:<BR>
<BR>
vt = sqrt(4Rpg/3C), where<BR>
<BR>
R = radius of the sphere<BR>
p = density of air (in this case)<BR>
g = accel due to gravity<BR>
C = 1kg/m (can also be considered the units for the 3)<BR>
<BR>
<digression><BR>
units of constants can be subtle, for example, in x = sin(2*pi*f), the units<BR>
of 2*pi need to be seconds, since trig functions only operate on<BR>
dimensionless quantities<BR>
</digression><BR>
<BR>
I also remember some sort of relationship between the terminal velocity and<BR>
the Reynolds number, but I can't remember exactly *what* the Reynolds number<BR>
is.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:48:22 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
It will be done, however do not expect it before the weekend. It looks like<BR>
it's going to be a wee bit harder to get everything set up the way that we<BR>
want it in raw HTML only.<BR>
<BR>
Opening the document with IE 5.0 and Excel2k (the platform that it was<BR>
developed for and on) works just fine. So perhaps you should just run out<BR>
and buy office 2k :) (j/k - jeeze)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
What would you all say to a XML link for viewing, and a Spread Sheet for<BR>
downloading? (excel 5.0 format)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Luther Martin<BR>
Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 9:05 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Also, 15 Tl12 designs (that are for sale from Tributis Corp.) are now<BR>
> available for download.<BR>
<BR>
Is it possible to post the designs in HTML only, rather than XML? Browsers<BR>
have a heck of a time saving the XML documents. The alternative appears to<BR>
be to save and then edit the HTML for the separate sheets, removing the code<BR>
where you test whether or not the sheet is being displayed in the main<BR>
window, replacing the if(....) with if(1!=1) seems to do the job, but I<BR>
would hate to have to manually edit every design which is posted.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:51:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Possible Trademark violation<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Not true uniformly.  In the US, it can vary.  Defending or attacking<BR>
>> a trademark is usually a fight about defining the market.  Win that<BR>
>> fight and you win the larger dispute.  Sometimes markets get defined<BR>
>> broadly.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Furthermore, "dilution" of a trademark is actionable in the US, and<BR>
>> that can apply to products in different market.<BR>
><BR>
> And of course, 'it all depends' Sometimes markets are defined very<BR>
> narrowly.<BR>
><BR>
> Foex, there are two computer operating systems known and marketed as<BR>
> 'OS9'. Microware makers of the original OS9 (which started life as the OS<BR>
> used in TI 99 computers) sued Apple when they came out with _their_ Mac OS<BR>
> 9, on dilution grounds.<BR>
><BR>
> Eventually the judge ruled that the two markets were sufficiently<BR>
> different that Apple's use of OS 9 was unlikely to impact Microware's<BR>
> business, (other than the fact that Microware got their name in the media<BR>
> about 9,453,621 times because of the lawsuit) because their market is<BR>
> embedded systems, and that it would be extraordinarily difficult to<BR>
> imagine that an engineer designing an embedded controller system would<BR>
> spec Mac OS 9 instead of Microware's OS9, or that a consumer would go to<BR>
> Microware's site and order OS9 for their iMac.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that OS9 has been popular with *hobbyists*. For example,<BR>
there used to be a moderately popular BBS that ran under OS-9. And got<BR>
great *multiuser* performance on a box that was arguably dumber than an<BR>
IBM XT.<BR>
<BR>
And given that it runs on Motorola chips (yes, I know there's a version<BR>
for Intel chips, but it's not called OS-9) if someone ordered OS-9 for<BR>
a Mac it's quite possible that they *could* want Microware's product<BR>
rather than Apple's.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:43:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: laws<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Why computer AI might help is that it is a huge and interconnected thing.<BR>
><BR>
> I found it much easier to understand particularly complicated sections<BR>
> when I made HTML pages of those sections so that I could simply<BR>
> click through the particulars of a given situation ("fact pattern" in<BR>
> legal<BR>
> parlance) to find what I needed.  Although it would take some work to<BR>
> do well, it could probably be put onto a PalmPilot so you could tap<BR>
> through it.  A generation of tech later, and an AI might be able to<BR>
> search<BR>
> through it to answer questions.  Another generation or two and it might<BR>
> be able to identify issues for you ahead of time, as soon as it downloads<BR>
> the laws of the area it is in (which might already be outdated as you<BR>
> said).<BR>
<BR>
Most of my "heavy" legal reading was for dealing with the laws that<BR>
tend to apply to BBSes. Especially the porn and "kiddie porn" laws. <BR>
<BR>
I've noted that a lot of laws are *much* easier to understand if<BR>
"translated" into Backus-Naur(sp?) format. The infmaous "railroad<BR>
diagrams" used for syntax descriptions in manuals for some computer<BR>
languages. <BR>
<BR>
Of course, doing that to things like the tax code would immediately<BR>
make it obvious where various legislators were slipping in "favors" for<BR>
people. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:01:26 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> What would you all say to a XML link for viewing, and a Spread Sheet for<BR>
> downloading? (excel 5.0 format)<BR>
<BR>
Excel 5.0 is probably the best choice for downloading, as Excel 5.0 is<BR>
highly portable (I know that MS Office for Mac and MS Office [for<BR>
Windows] versions 6+ can read Excel 5.0, while other spreadsheets are<BR>
more likely to support Excel 5.0 than later versions).  You lose some<BR>
functionality (which your spreadsheet may not even use) for commonality.<BR>
<BR>
Note that the ZIPped spreadsheets on the AuricTech site use Excel 5.0,<BR>
for just this reason.<BR>
<BR>
I am unfamiliar with XML, so I cannot make any suggestions in this<BR>
regard.<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:24:57 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: laws (Now with Ob.Trav!)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I've noted that a lot of laws are *much* easier to understand if<BR>
> "translated" into Backus-Naur(sp?) format. The infmaous "railroad<BR>
> diagrams" used for syntax descriptions in manuals for some computer<BR>
> languages.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, doing that to things like the tax code would immediately<BR>
> make it obvious where various legislators were slipping in "favors" for<BR>
> people.<BR>
<BR>
Hehehe.  But since most Americans can't diagram a sentence,<BR>
they're not too concerned.<BR>
<BR>
I've never heard of that format, but it is an old tool for understanding<BR>
laws.  We called law parsing "statutory construction" (or "deconstruction).<BR>
A month into law school, my class had the mantra down:<BR>
<BR>
Prof:  "What is the First Rule of Statutory Construction?"<BR>
Class:  "Read on!"<BR>
Prof:  "What is the Second Rule of Statutory Construction?"<BR>
Class:  "Read again!"<BR>
<BR>
If you're a good grammarian or computer programmer,<BR>
parsing laws is not difficult at all.  The only trouble are those<BR>
fuzzy variables like "reasonable".  :-)<BR>
<BR>
Ob. trav, Robot Lawyers.  Some world will try it.  There will<BR>
be some speedy trials.<BR>
<BR>
Robot Lawyer:  "You're being sued for breach of contract.  Wait One."<BR>
Client:  "What?!  By who?  For what?"<BR>
Robot Lawyer:  "You lost.  Damages of Cr10,000 have been removed<BR>
from your accounts and put into escrow, pending appeal."<BR>
Client:  "WHAT?!  This is crazy!!  What the hell is going on?"<BR>
Robot Lawyer:  "Relax.  I had the case dismissed on appeal. They filed<BR>
their case after the statue of limitations had expired.  I've already deducted<BR>
my fee.  Care to go to lunch?"<BR>
<BR>
<off to design my Robot Lawyer><BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3097<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3098</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/26/00 12:52:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 26 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3098<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
Re: laws<BR>
RE: Regal class battle cruiser<BR>
Re: Laws<BR>
Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
Re: Terminal Velocity<BR>
Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
Re: Jump Point Distance<BR>
RE: Jump Point Distance<BR>
RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
Re: Jump Point Distance<BR>
Re: "101 Vehicles"<BR>
Re: I'm from a punning clan<BR>
Unintended Consequences (was Re: laws)<BR>
OT: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
Re: Unintended Consequences (was Re: laws)<BR>
Help<BR>
Help<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Unintended Consequences (was Re: laws)<BR>
Re: Help<BR>
RE: laws (Now with Ob.Trav!)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:35:55 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Opening the document with IE 5.0 and Excel2k (the platform that it was<BR>
> developed for and on) works just fine. So perhaps you should just run out<BR>
> and buy office 2k :) (j/k - jeeze)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> What would you all say to a XML link for viewing, and a Spread Sheet for<BR>
> downloading? (excel 5.0 format)<BR>
<BR>
Yes, you can *view* it just fine, but IE5.5 apparently can't save it if it's<BR>
XML, at least *I* can't get it to work. "This Web page could not be saved,"<BR>
says IE5.5. And that's even with Office 2000 installed.<BR>
<BR>
The XML for viewing and Excel 2K for downloading sounds like a good idea to<BR>
me. But wait, you've already done that!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:58:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Here are the steps that I took to save the XML:<BR>
<BR>
1) Open the page in Excel<BR>
2) Go to File/Edit with Excel<BR>
3) When Excel finally stops loading, go to File/Save As.<BR>
4) Choose a file name and place that you will remeber. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Kinda round about, but it works :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Luther Martin<BR>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:36 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Opening the document with IE 5.0 and Excel2k (the platform that it was<BR>
> developed for and on) works just fine. So perhaps you should just run out<BR>
> and buy office 2k :) (j/k - jeeze)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> What would you all say to a XML link for viewing, and a Spread Sheet for<BR>
> downloading? (excel 5.0 format)<BR>
<BR>
Yes, you can *view* it just fine, but IE5.5 apparently can't save it if it's<BR>
XML, at least *I* can't get it to work. "This Web page could not be saved,"<BR>
says IE5.5. And that's even with Office 2000 installed.<BR>
<BR>
The XML for viewing and Excel 2K for downloading sounds like a good idea to<BR>
me. But wait, you've already done that!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:03:52 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm..<BR>
<BR>
1) should read<BR>
<BR>
1) Open page in IE.<BR>
<BR>
Opening it with Excel would just make it waaaay to easy :)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tsykoduk<BR>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:58 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Here are the steps that I took to save the XML:<BR>
<BR>
1) Open the page in Excel<BR>
2) Go to File/Edit with Excel<BR>
3) When Excel finally stops loading, go to File/Save As.<BR>
4) Choose a file name and place that you will remeber. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Kinda round about, but it works :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Luther Martin<BR>
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 10:36 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Opening the document with IE 5.0 and Excel2k (the platform that it was<BR>
> developed for and on) works just fine. So perhaps you should just run out<BR>
> and buy office 2k :) (j/k - jeeze)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> What would you all say to a XML link for viewing, and a Spread Sheet for<BR>
> downloading? (excel 5.0 format)<BR>
<BR>
Yes, you can *view* it just fine, but IE5.5 apparently can't save it if it's<BR>
XML, at least *I* can't get it to work. "This Web page could not be saved,"<BR>
says IE5.5. And that's even with Office 2000 installed.<BR>
<BR>
The XML for viewing and Excel 2K for downloading sounds like a good idea to<BR>
me. But wait, you've already done that!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:19:16 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: laws<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
>I've noted that a lot of laws are *much* easier to understand if<BR>
>"translated" into Backus-Naur(sp?) format. The infmaous "railroad<BR>
>diagrams" used for syntax descriptions in manuals for some computer<BR>
>languages.<BR>
<BR>
My torts professor was shocked to see that only a few of us raised our hands<BR>
when asked if we had learned to diagram sentences in grade school (and fewer<BR>
of us still had learned to do it in Latin).  This failure of our educational<BR>
system has led to badly written laws and contracts and the confusion of both<BR>
laypeople and lawyers.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:21:02 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Regal class battle cruiser<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Gerry Harris<BR>
> Sent: Monday, 25 September 2000 12:07 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Regal class battle cruiser<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Could you do the Tigress?  She seems like a handful to tackle in FF&S.<BR>
> <BR>
One Tigress coming up.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:06:34 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Laws<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> As for free traders getting fongued by laws, I suspect a tidy little<BR>
> business could be made of keeping track of local codes and writing basic<BR>
> lay-person summaries.  Might be something the TAS would do.  Something<BR>
> along the lines of "Tarsus's 500 page codex on trade transactions<BR>
> basically boils down to 'do what you said you were going to do or suffer<BR>
> the wrath of mob justice'.  Those thinking that the planet's essentially<BR>
> non-existent law level means free rein should consider that in the last<BR>
> year on record there were:  7 tar-and-feathering incidents, 5 gun shot<BR>
> injuries, and one case of a man being dragged behind a nobble for several<BR>
> miles; all related to cheating on contracts. Aside from this basic notion<BR>
> of contractual obligation, however, there is little in the way of<BR>
> regulations." <BR>
><BR>
> Okay, so that was kinda facetious (but pretty well a good rendition of<BR>
> Tarsus IMTU) but you get the idea. The TAS (or merchants' guild, or<BR>
> whoever) would charge a modest sum for guides to the worlds of different<BR>
> sub-sectors and so on.  Of course, these wouldn't always be up-to-date<BR>
> or even accurate... <BR>
<BR>
Be sure to read up on the laws regarding the killing of political<BR>
figures on New Texas... <eg><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:09:10 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: GS3/GT-Q: Orbital Bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> > I'm getting the impression that if you wanted to,<BR>
>> > you could have an 'orbital gun', for more precise<BR>
>> > strikes.  For example, say I'm in orbit and I want<BR>
>> > to really cripple a world, or a portion thereof, but<BR>
>> > I want to minimize collateral damage.  Instead of<BR>
>> > bombing the target into the stoneage, I want to<BR>
>> > totally destroy key infrastructure elements: starports,<BR>
>> > bridges, power plants, etc. Say 5 kilotons at impact.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > Is this feasible?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Easily. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> > Is there an easy way to calculate what is necessary<BR>
>> > back from the desired kilotonnage?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Sure. 5 kilotons is 1/200th of a meagaton. 1 megaton = 4.2e15 Joules.<BR>
>> So 5 kilotons = 21e12 Joules. Going back to the formula for kinetic<BR>
>> energy: Ke = .5 * M * V^2<BR>
>> <BR>
>> 21e12 = .5 * M * V^2<BR>
>> 42e12 = M * V^2<BR>
>> <BR>
>> pick a convenient mass and you'll get the velocity. Pick a convenient<BR>
>> velocity, and you get the mass required.<BR>
> <snip><BR>
><BR>
> Sorry if this has already been covered  (coming  to  this  thread<BR>
> late) but wouldn't you get a problem  with  atmospheric  ablation<BR>
> that  increases  as  projectile  size   decreases?   Very   small<BR>
> bombardment projectiles might loose half their mass  on  the  way<BR>
> down.<BR>
<BR>
It's solvable, at least until you get to extreme velocities. It's<BR>
possible to apply coatings that won't ablate except at *really* extreme<BR>
temps, and with proper shaping, even that's reduced a lot. <BR>
<BR>
And at *really* extreme velocities, the projectile "punches thru"<BR>
before there's *time* for it to be much affected by the atmosphere. <BR>
<BR>
For example, at 3000 km/sec, on a reasonably vertical approach, the<BR>
projectile will take around 1/20th of a second to traverse the<BR>
atmosphere. <BR>
<BR>
For that matter, fire several projectiles, properly spaced, and you get<BR>
the early ones blasting away the air with the "followers" arriving<BR>
before it can rush back. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:30:20 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Brian Caball wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Hey guys...<BR>
>> Slighly OT, but sparked off by the recent Orbital Bombarment thread. How<BR>
>> could I work out the terminal velocity of say a 1 ton block of stone?<BR>
>> How far need it fall in say 1g to reach this speed?<BR>
>> (I can then work out the damage by Ke = 1/2 mv^2)<BR>
>> Why, I hear you ask? A fantasy campaign I'm working on has flying ships.<BR>
>> I want to know what a few of these woudl do when dropped from a mile or<BR>
>> two up...<BR>
><BR>
> Someone should look this up to verify it, but I think that terminal velocity<BR>
> of a sphere is given by:<BR>
><BR>
> vt = sqrt(4Rpg/3C), where<BR>
><BR>
> R = radius of the sphere<BR>
> p = density of air (in this case)<BR>
> g = accel due to gravity<BR>
> C = 1kg/m (can also be considered the units for the 3)<BR>
<BR>
Can't be right. the *mass* of the sphere has to be in there somewhere.<BR>
Just consider the difference between a lead sphere and a styrofoam one!<BR>
<BR>
> <digression><BR>
> units of constants can be subtle, for example, in x = sin(2*pi*f), the units<BR>
> of 2*pi need to be seconds, since trig functions only operate on<BR>
> dimensionless quantities<BR>
> </digression><BR>
<BR>
No, there needs to be a constant with a unit of seconds in there. :-)<BR>
<BR>
2*pi is *by definition* dimensionless. <BR>
<BR>
> I also remember some sort of relationship between the terminal velocity and<BR>
> the Reynolds number, but I can't remember exactly *what* the Reynolds number<BR>
> is.<BR>
<BR>
All I recall is that the formula involves velocity, viscosity of medium<BR>
and "scale length".<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 06:46:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
<BR>
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/solarsystem/splash.html<BR>
<BR>
This should be of interest to some of you.  You'll have to download a small<BR>
module to run it, but its very much worth the time.<BR>
<BR>
Try manuevering.....  I guess thats why pilots get the big money.   Hahaha<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 07:22:30 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump Point Distance<BR>
<BR>
Just ran the numbers on gravity gradients at 100D from a planet using<BR>
the formulas in Book 2:<BR>
<BR>
Size 1 = 0.0000032G<BR>
Size 2 = 0.0000064G<BR>
Size 3 = 0.0000094G<BR>
Size 4 = 0.0000125G<BR>
Size 5 = 0.0000156G<BR>
Size 6 = 0.0000188G<BR>
Size 7 = 0.0000219G<BR>
Size 8 = 0.0000250G<BR>
Size 9 = 0.0000281G<BR>
Size 10 = 0.0000312G<BR>
Jupiter = 0.0002649G<BR>
Saturn = 0.0002115G<BR>
Uranus = 0.0000232G<BR>
Neptune = 0.0000298G<BR>
<BR>
If you were going for a gravity-based system, I'd say you'd have to be<BR>
beyond the 0.0003G gradient before making a jump -- of course, this<BR>
makes possible jumps a lot closer to most planets.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe mass impingement upon jump space has a lot less to do with<BR>
gravity and a lot more to do with the physical size of the planet ...<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
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http://im.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:39:08 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump Point Distance<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> Just ran the numbers on gravity gradients at 100D from a planet<BR>
> using the formulas in Book 2:<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
This was already done years ago, you can find it  written  up  on<BR>
the StuffOnline website ...<BR>
<BR>
( http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/trisen/sol )<BR>
<BR>
... In the subsequent discussion on the TML it  was  proposed  to<BR>
swap straight gravitation for tidal force  (since  gravity  drops<BR>
with the square of the distance and tidal force  drops  with  the<BR>
cube of the distance and thus was a better  fit)  but  I  haven't<BR>
gotten round to writing up that part yet.  Anyway, I just thought<BR>
I'd draw your attention to this before you reinvent the wheel.<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:37:16 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
> > Someone should look this up to verify it, but I think that<BR>
> terminal velocity<BR>
> > of a sphere is given by:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > vt = sqrt(4Rpg/3C), where<BR>
> ><BR>
> > R = radius of the sphere<BR>
> > p = density of air (in this case)<BR>
> > g = accel due to gravity<BR>
> > C = 1kg/m (can also be considered the units for the 3)<BR>
><BR>
> Can't be right. the *mass* of the sphere has to be in there somewhere.<BR>
> Just consider the difference between a lead sphere and a styrofoam one!<BR>
<BR>
Maybe the density is of the object?<BR>
<BR>
Using this, modelling a person as a sphere of water with a 0.25 m radius we<BR>
get a terminal velocity of about 58 m/sec, or about 130 miles/hr which<BR>
sounds about right.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:05:47 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump Point Distance<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris writes:<BR>
> Just ran the numbers on gravity gradients at 100D from a planet using<BR>
> the formulas in Book 2:<BR>
> <BR>
> Size 1 = 0.0000032G<BR>
> Size 2 = 0.0000064G<BR>
> Size 3 = 0.0000094G<BR>
> Size 4 = 0.0000125G<BR>
> Size 5 = 0.0000156G<BR>
> Size 6 = 0.0000188G<BR>
> Size 7 = 0.0000219G<BR>
> Size 8 = 0.0000250G<BR>
> Size 9 = 0.0000281G<BR>
> Size 10 = 0.0000312G<BR>
> Jupiter = 0.0002649G<BR>
> Saturn = 0.0002115G<BR>
> Uranus = 0.0000232G<BR>
> Neptune = 0.0000298G<BR>
> <BR>
> If you were going for a gravity-based system, I'd say you'd have to be<BR>
> beyond the 0.0003G gradient before making a jump -- of course, this<BR>
> makes possible jumps a lot closer to most planets.<BR>
<BR>
Not to mention that the gravitational force from a 1 solar mass star at 1 AU is 0.006 Gs, making it impossible to jump from within the life zone for the majority of stars.<BR>
> <BR>
> Maybe mass impingement upon jump space has a lot less to do with<BR>
> gravity and a lot more to do with the physical size of the planet ...<BR>
<BR>
If you use tidal flux (the rate of change of gravity) it works out that the limit will be at K * (density^1/3) * diameter.  If you norm at 100D for a <BR>
typical terrestrial planet (density 5.5) gas giants usually require around<BR>
70d; a star requires 0.6 AU * (mass in sols)^1/3.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:25:06 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: "101 Vehicles"<BR>
<BR>
>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
>Subject: Re: "101 Vehicles"<BR>
...<BR>
>That's a pity. I thought some designs were quite interesting, such as the<BR>
Tiamat<BR>
>undersea mining crawler. And it was nice to have all the old classic designs<BR>
>(Resolve, Trepida, hydrofoil bike from Adv 9, the old Aslan Thunderer and<BR>
<BR>
  And the 173,000 kg armoured car - wheeled! (p. 5)  Some of the grav APC's <BR>
(12, 14) have laughable profiles - the low rectangles from CT made _sense_;<BR>
these just look strange and have absurd scaling indicated. <BR>
<BR>
  Ooh, and number 17 is MCr 6.6, 64,000 kilos, and it's an open-topped six-<BR>
wheeled scout car smaller than a Hummer. What the <bleep>?!<BR>
<BR>
  Back to the outgoing junk bin...<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>Oh, and ignore those who argue in favour of all-round armour, "since<BR>
threats can<BR>
>come from any direction".<BR>
<BR>
  Which makes the entire MT vehicle (as opposed to ship) design system <BR>
useless, AFAIC. A distinct step down from Striker, and for no good reason.<BR>
<BR>
The CT Creed: There is no Game but Traveller, and High Guard is its Product<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:31:57 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: I'm from a punning clan<BR>
<BR>
John Groth wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Ben Aaronovitch wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Re: Blackadder.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > If I had a penny for every time a player/character said 'I have a cunning <BR>
> > plan' or variations of, I'd have #3.26.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ah, yes.  Such as an old AD&D character of mine, Oort McLeod, who,<BR>
> explaining his unusual name, once said, "I'm from a punning clan."<BR>
> <BR>
> You now would have #3.27.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Ouch.<BR>
<BR>
Ouch ouch ouch.<BR>
<BR>
Wish I'd thought of that one.<BR>
<BR>
2 points on the Russell B scale to John.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:34:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Unintended Consequences (was Re: laws)<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >I believe it was the Roman Emperor Tiberius (it was certainly one of the<BR>
> Claudians) who had his >big chance to change things. He almost made it<BR>
> illegal for lawyers to accept payment for their<BR>
> >services. Since we have adopted a good part of the Roman tradition, we<BR>
> might have adopted that<BR>
> >part too.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >It's not too far-fetched that such a culture would exist somewhere in the<BR>
> Traveller universe.<BR>
> >Now that's a place I would like to vist.<BR>
><BR>
> If the Veteran's Administration ever causes you any harm (and you are a<BR>
> veteran and will most likely someday be an old veteran), you will be in<BR>
that<BR>
> place.  Lawyers' fees are capped at $10 per case.  As a result, lawyers do<BR>
> not handle VA cases, and veterans are on their own.  As an articulate and<BR>
> well-educated former officer, you will probably handle the bureaucracy<BR>
fine<BR>
> on your own -- until Alzheimer's hits you in a few decades and you really<BR>
> need some help.<BR>
><BR>
> The stated reason for the cap on the fee was to protect veterans from<BR>
> lawyers.  The result has been to protect the VA from veterans who could<BR>
> effectively pursue their rights.<BR>
<BR>
It's interesting that organizations, including governments, implement<BR>
regulations and then act surprised at the results when people act the way<BR>
they have been directed to act. Our Internet products sales force, for<BR>
example, are the only ones who get a commission off of sales of our Internet<BR>
products, yet our sales organization acts surprised that other sales people<BR>
don't actively pursue Internet product sales leads.<BR>
<BR>
There must be lots of cases in the history of the 3I where Imperial policies<BR>
were implemented which caused strangely unanticipated consequences. On<BR>
individual planets there are probably even more examples.<BR>
<BR>
I remember reading a story about China, in which they decided to<BR>
systematically chase away some sort of small bird which was around in such<BR>
great numbers that it was a nuisance. So the Chinese mercilessly chased the<BR>
birds, allowing them no time to sleep. The birds eventually either died or<BR>
flew far away. The result: insects, the birds' preferred food, then<BR>
multiplied unchecked. Wait! Bring back the birds!<BR>
<BR>
I assume that you must have lots of similar stories in the 3I, where<BR>
colonists don't quite understand the ecosystem, and do things with<BR>
far-reaching and serious consequences.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:29:12 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: OT: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
<BR>
    I have a question about some files I have that are .SEA and .CPT disks. <BR>
If I recall correctly the SEA format was some sort of equivalent to a zip <BR>
file. If so can somebody unarchive them for me (or is there a program for <BR>
IBM's that can handle them?<BR>
<BR>
    On the .CPT files, I have no firm idea of what they are (graphics maybe), <BR>
can somebody tell me?<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:34:51 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Unintended Consequences (was Re: laws)<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> There must be lots of cases in the history of the 3I where Imperial policies<BR>
>were implemented which caused strangely unanticipated consequences. On<BR>
>individual planets there are probably even more examples.<BR>
<BR>
Psionic Supressions, anyone?<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:35:10 PDT<BR>
From: "Erik Shumaker" <attendolo@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Help<BR>
<BR>
help<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:35:42 PDT<BR>
From: "Erik Shumaker" <attendolo@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Help<BR>
<BR>
help<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:21:35<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
At 07:41 PM 9/25/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Ah, yes.  Such as an old AD&D character of mine, Oort McLeod, who,<BR>
>explaining his unusual name, once said, "I'm from a punning clan."<BR>
<BR>
Oort McLeod?  A man with his head in the clouds, no doubt.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:08:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
On Tuesday, September 26, 2000 10:21 AM<BR>
Douglas E. Berry said,<BR>
<BR>
> Oort McLeod?  A man with his head in the clouds, no doubt.<BR>
<BR>
I would expect a pun like that from you.<BR>
Tis truly a sad cometary on your sanity.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
===========================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:27:04 -0500<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Unintended Consequences (was Re: laws)<BR>
<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
>> There must be lots of cases in the history of the 3I where Imperial policies<BR>
>>were implemented which caused strangely unanticipated consequences. On<BR>
>>individual planets there are probably even more examples.<BR>
><BR>
>Psionic Supressions, anyone?<BR>
<BR>
No, no, no. Everyone knows that the Psionic Supressions was a deliberate effort on the part of the Zhodani to keep the one significant edge they had over the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:34:03 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Help<BR>
<BR>
Erik Shumaker wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> help<BR>
<BR>
Your request for help has been received by the TML. Your business is<BR>
important to us. Please hold. A customer service representative will be with<BR>
you soon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:32:00 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: laws (Now with Ob.Trav!)<BR>
<BR>
bloo wrote:<BR>
> off to design my Robot Lawyer<BR>
<BR>
Its been done.  Check out "101 Robots" #76 -  Legal  Eagle  Robot<BR>
(aka the "Makhidkarun X1DF-A attorney").  Basically its a crudely<BR>
humanoid robot ... costing Cr411,500 ... Admin-4  Interrogation-2<BR>
Bribery-1 Emotion Simulation ...<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3098<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3099</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/26/00 9:00:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Tuesday, September 26 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3099<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Help<BR>
RE: Help<BR>
Re: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
Re: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
RE: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
Two Missile Options (GT)<BR>
Re: Help (Keyboard Kill)<BR>
Re: Laws<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>
Re: fun with chemistry...<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>
Re: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>
Re: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>
RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
Re: Help<BR>
Re: laws (Now with Ob.Trav!)<BR>
Re: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
Re: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:37:40 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Ice see nothing wrong with what he said...he's clearly a man with a tail<BR>
to tell.<BR>
<BR>
Thing wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Tuesday, September 26, 2000 10:21 AM<BR>
> Douglas E. Berry said,<BR>
> <BR>
> > Oort McLeod?  A man with his head in the clouds, no doubt.<BR>
> <BR>
> I would expect a pun like that from you.<BR>
> Tis truly a sad cometary on your sanity.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:39:33 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Help<BR>
<BR>
Erik Shumaker wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> help<BR>
<BR>
help I'm being repressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!<BR>
<BR>
(actually Erik, you need to be sending these commands to<BR>
majordomo@lists.ient.com not the list)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:52:31 -0400<BR>
From: Bob Kovalchick <Kovalchick@wbgh.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Help<BR>
<BR>
LOL! This is the funniest reply I've seen on this list. Definitely funnier<BR>
than the penguin stuff..<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From:	Luther Martin [SMTP:martin@ksarul.com]<BR>
> Sent:	Tuesday, September 26, 2000 3:34 PM<BR>
> To:	traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject:	Re: Help<BR>
> <BR>
> Erik Shumaker wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > help<BR>
> <BR>
> Your request for help has been received by the TML. Your business is<BR>
> important to us. Please hold. A customer service representative will be<BR>
> with<BR>
> you soon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:00:00 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
<BR>
Don't bother if you're not running Windows...:-(<BR>
<BR>
Pronto wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.nationalgeographic.com/solarsystem/splash.html<BR>
> <BR>
> This should be of interest to some of you.  You'll have to download a small<BR>
> module to run it, but its very much worth the time.<BR>
> <BR>
> Try manuevering.....  I guess thats why pilots get the big money.   Hahaha<BR>
> <BR>
> Pronto<BR>
> AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 13:18:10 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
<BR>
.sea files are Self Extracting Achives.  You should be able to run the<BR>
application to extract the files.  .cpt are old Compact Pro archives.  The<BR>
latest version of Stiffit expander will open these.  Download it from<BR>
http://www.aladdinsys.com<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <Kagehira@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 11:29 AM<BR>
Subject: OT: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>     I have a question about some files I have that are .SEA and .CPT<BR>
disks.<BR>
> If I recall correctly the SEA format was some sort of equivalent to a zip<BR>
> file. If so can somebody unarchive them for me (or is there a program for<BR>
> IBM's that can handle them?<BR>
><BR>
>     On the .CPT files, I have no firm idea of what they are (graphics<BR>
maybe),<BR>
> can somebody tell me?<BR>
><BR>
> Bryan<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:28:03 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ice see nothing wrong with what he said...he's clearly a man with a tail<BR>
> to tell.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thing wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > On Tuesday, September 26, 2000 10:21 AM<BR>
> > Douglas E. Berry said,<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > Oort McLeod?  A man with his head in the clouds, no doubt.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I would expect a pun like that from you.<BR>
> > Tis truly a sad cometary on your sanity.<BR>
<BR>
And, no doubt, his tale will be a sublime one.<BR>
<BR>
                                   - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:37:23 -0400<BR>
From: Glenn Myers <glenn.myers@ansys.com><BR>
Subject: RE: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
<BR>
I think CPT are compact pro files. It was a shareware archiving package. The<BR>
current freeware Stuffit expander will unpack them on a Mac. I don't know if<BR>
the windows version will handle the format or not.<BR>
<BR>
If you want to send the files to me I'll take care of it.<BR>
<BR>
Glenn<BR>
<BR>
		-----Original Message-----<BR>
		From:	Kagehira@aol.com [mailto:Kagehira@aol.com]<BR>
		Sent:	Tuesday, September 26, 2000 2:29 PM<BR>
		To:	traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
		Subject:	OT: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
<BR>
		    I have a question about some files I have that are .SEA<BR>
and .CPT disks. <BR>
		If I recall correctly the SEA format was some sort of<BR>
equivalent to a zip <BR>
		file. If so can somebody unarchive them for me (or is there<BR>
a program for <BR>
		IBM's that can handle them?<BR>
<BR>
		    On the .CPT files, I have no firm idea of what they are<BR>
(graphics maybe), <BR>
		can somebody tell me?<BR>
<BR>
		Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 15:59:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net><BR>
Subject: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR>
<BR>
On JTAS and Pyramid, there has been a lot of discussion on the ineffectivness of missiles in GT (primarily due to the point defense rules). Here are two options:<BR>
<BR>
(1) Since missiles are built as vehicles, give then the Cheap option (half cost, -1 HT). There is really no reason not to do this anyway.<BR>
<BR>
(2) Change the point defense rules to: roll separately to intercept each missile, at a cumulative -2 per additional missile fired at. If the defending ship has a large number of PD weapons, organize them as batteries and use the Hits by Automatic Weapons rules (for ROF, use the number of PD weapons in the battery). For each "round" that hits, one missile is destroyed. <BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:07:11 -0400<BR>
From: "swordworlder" <swordworlder@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Help (Keyboard Kill)<BR>
<BR>
Honorary keyboard kill (glad I left my cup of coffee upstairs).<BR>
<BR>
I nominate Luther for the TML Help Desk Commandant position.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
<BR>
> Erik Shumaker wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > help<BR>
><BR>
> Your request for help has been received by the TML. Your business is<BR>
> important to us. Please hold. A customer service representative will be<BR>
with<BR>
> you soon.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:44:37 -0500<BR>
From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Laws<BR>
<BR>
At 01:06 AM 09/26/2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><snip><BR>
>Be sure to read up on the laws regarding the killing of political<BR>
>figures on New Texas... <eg><BR>
<BR>
Ahh a political/legal system I truly admired, One could kill a political figure, if you could prove you did it, because you disagreed with his/her statements/political stands. In New Texas political figures tend to be armed and very twitchy/paranoid to the extreme. If they did not, they had "terminal" disagreements with the voters.<G><BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:21:40 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
"John P. Raynor" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Ice see nothing wrong with what he said...he's clearly a man with a tail<BR>
> > to tell.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Thing wrote:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2000 10:21 AM<BR>
> > > Douglas E. Berry said,<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > > Oort McLeod?  A man with his head in the clouds, no doubt.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > I would expect a pun like that from you.<BR>
> > > Tis truly a sad cometary on your sanity.<BR>
> <BR>
> And, no doubt, his tale will be a sublime one.<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, I eventually had to write Oort's orbituary....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 16:27:24 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
John Groth wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> "John P. Raynor" wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > On Tue, 26 Sep 2000, Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > Ice see nothing wrong with what he said...he's clearly a man with a tail<BR>
> > > to tell.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Thing wrote:<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > On Tuesday, September 26, 2000 10:21 AM<BR>
> > > > Douglas E. Berry said,<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > > Oort McLeod?  A man with his head in the clouds, no doubt.<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > I would expect a pun like that from you.<BR>
> > > > Tis truly a sad cometary on your sanity.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > And, no doubt, his tale will be a sublime one.<BR>
> <BR>
> Unfortunately, I eventually had to write Oort's orbituary....<BR>
<BR>
Bet it was an oblique one at that, even elliptical in it's descriptions<BR>
of Oort's accomplishments.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:20:06 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>
<BR>
I'm new to Traveller and don't have much experience as the GM of any game. I <BR>
like the idea of merchant campaigns, but I'm worried that the gameplay will <BR>
degenerate into "buy-jump-sell", with little or no roleplaying. If anyone <BR>
could give me some pointers, I'd really appreciate it.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:42:00 -0400<BR>
From: Eric Freitas <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: fun with chemistry...<BR>
<BR>
At 21:44 9/20/00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>Well, in 20-50 years it won't be "designer drugs" that are the problem.<BR>
>It'll be "designer genes". Including viruses and bacteria.<BR>
><BR>
>Chemical modeling software will be *really* good. Even the<BR>
>shareware/freeware stuff.<BR>
><BR>
>And CAD/CAM machining setups will be common hobbyist gear.<BR>
<BR>
Of course it will also be a felony to write a piece of software without<BR>
a license.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:20:48<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
At 12:08 PM 9/26/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I would expect a pun like that from you.<BR>
>Tis truly a sad cometary on your sanity.<BR>
<BR>
That pun almost put me in a coma.  But that's another tail.<BR>
<BR>
Be advised that the desk penguins: Kesey, Freezy and Percy, have just<BR>
attacked your post.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:22:32<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
At 04:27 PM 9/26/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>John Groth wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Unfortunately, I eventually had to write Oort's orbituary....<BR>
><BR>
>Bet it was an oblique one at that, even elliptical in it's descriptions<BR>
>of Oort's accomplishments.<BR>
<BR>
..and it appeared in all the major periodicals.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:57:50 -0500<BR>
From: Charles McKnight <cmcknight01@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>
<BR>
Hi,<BR>
<BR>
If the game starts degenerating into buy-jump-sell, you, as the referee, <BR>
can always throw in little "fun" things that require the players to <BR>
interact with the denizens, er, citizens of the planet.  Anything from a <BR>
medical quarantine to a military coup is at your disposal to make life <BR>
"interesting <Chinese definition>".  I usually turn to the Stainless Steel <BR>
Rat series for nasty plot twists, but I'm just bad like that.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Chuck<BR>
<BR>
At 07:20 PM 9/26/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>I'm new to Traveller and don't have much experience as the GM of any game. <BR>
>I like the idea of merchant campaigns, but I'm worried that the gameplay <BR>
>will degenerate into "buy-jump-sell", with little or no roleplaying. If <BR>
>anyone could give me some pointers, I'd really appreciate it.<BR>
><BR>
>-J. Jensen<BR>
>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
><BR>
>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:40:18<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>
<BR>
At 07:20 PM 9/26/2000 CDT, you wrote:<BR>
>I'm new to Traveller and don't have much experience as the GM of any game. I <BR>
>like the idea of merchant campaigns, but I'm worried that the gameplay will <BR>
>degenerate into "buy-jump-sell", with little or no roleplaying. If anyone <BR>
>could give me some pointers, I'd really appreciate it.<BR>
<BR>
The secret to a merchant campaign is keeping the players nervous about money.<BR>
<BR>
Put them in situations where they have to make questionable and risky deals<BR>
to make that ship's payment.  Hit them with breakdowns that wipe out their<BR>
cash reserves.  Dangle golden chances in front of them to get them to go in<BR>
the direction you want them to go.<BR>
<BR>
Sometimes, players will find a safe, profitable route.  In this case, give<BR>
them competition.  A larger line doesn't like the competition, the local<BR>
criminals want bigger and better bribes, a governmental official takes a<BR>
dislike to the characters.. or all three!<BR>
<BR>
Remember that buying and selling involve people.  Merchants on a regular<BR>
route will make contacts.  Set up a few regular NPCs.  Dock workers, bar<BR>
tenders, brokers are all good choices.  You then have a good adventure hook<BR>
when the characters return to planet Blah and find that their old friend<BR>
Buzz is missing, and his bar is a gutted ruin.<BR>
<BR>
Outside effects can also be great sources for adventure.  Wars mean<BR>
smuggling, dodging commerce raiders, and war profiteering.  A disaster on a<BR>
world may make for a desperate race to get a vaccine or other supplies.<BR>
Imperial authorities may commander the ship for any number of reasons.<BR>
<BR>
Like any other type of campaign, the keys are to maintain interest and mix<BR>
up your pitches.<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 18:55:11 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>
<BR>
>I'm new to Traveller and don't have much experience as the GM of any <BR>
>game. I like the idea of merchant campaigns, but I'm worried that <BR>
>the gameplay will degenerate into "buy-jump-sell", with little or no <BR>
>roleplaying. If anyone could give me some pointers, I'd really <BR>
>appreciate it.<BR>
<BR>
A worry I have had. OTOH, Far Trader (a must if you are going to<BR>
do this, IMO) has suggestions on "complications" that might arise<BR>
during trading (not noticing unrealistic delivery schedules, a<BR>
strike by the cargo handlers, etc.)<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:56:26 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]<BR>
<BR>
> >> Unfortunately, I eventually had to write Oort's orbituary....<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Bet it was an oblique one at that, even elliptical in it's <BR>
> descriptions<BR>
> >of Oort's accomplishments.<BR>
> <BR>
> ..and it appeared in all the major periodicals.<BR>
<BR>
Nahh... it had a snowballs chance of being published..<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:33:04 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]<BR>
> <BR>
> > >> Unfortunately, I eventually had to write Oort's orbituary....<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Bet it was an oblique one at that, even elliptical in it's<BR>
> > descriptions<BR>
> > >of Oort's accomplishments.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ..and it appeared in all the major periodicals.<BR>
> <BR>
> Nahh... it had a snowballs chance of being published..<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps.  At least it provided conic relief to the various sections of<BR>
our campaign....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:43:08 -0500<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Another Sci-fi knowledge quiz (Was: High Tech Vegetarians)<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]<BR>
><BR>
> > >> Unfortunately, I eventually had to write Oort's orbituary....<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >Bet it was an oblique one at that, even elliptical in it's<BR>
> > descriptions<BR>
> > >of Oort's accomplishments.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ..and it appeared in all the major periodicals.<BR>
><BR>
> Nahh... it had a snowballs chance of being published..<BR>
<BR>
Naturally, since it had so little irony about it.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:03:23 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Help<BR>
<BR>
From: Erik Shumaker <attendolo@hotmail.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>help<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I need someone.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:28:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: laws (Now with Ob.Trav!)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> I've noted that a lot of laws are *much* easier to understand if<BR>
>> "translated" into Backus-Naur(sp?) format. The infmaous "railroad<BR>
>> diagrams" used for syntax descriptions in manuals for some computer<BR>
>> languages.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Of course, doing that to things like the tax code would immediately<BR>
>> make it obvious where various legislators were slipping in "favors" for<BR>
>> people.<BR>
><BR>
> Hehehe.  But since most Americans can't diagram a sentence,<BR>
> they're not too concerned.<BR>
><BR>
> I've never heard of that format,<BR>
<BR>
Here are a few examples:<BR>
<BR>
letter ---+-----+-----+-----+<BR>
          |     |     |     |<BR>
          v     v     v     v<BR>
          A ... Z     a ... z<BR>
          |     |     |     |<BR>
          +-----+-----+-----+---><BR>
<BR>
digit  ---+-----+<BR>
          |     |<BR>
          v     v<BR>
          0 ... 9<BR>
          |     |<BR>
          +-----+---><BR>
<BR>
hex digit ---+--->[digit]----------+<BR>
             |                     |<BR>
             +-----+-----+-----+   |<BR>
             |     |     |     |   |<BR>
             v     v     v     v   |<BR>
             A ... F     a ... f   |<BR>
             |     |     |     |   v<BR>
             +-----+-----+-----+---+---><BR>
<BR>
identifier ---+--->[letter]-------+---+-------------------+--><BR>
              |                   ^   ^                   |<BR>
              |                   |   |                   |<BR>
              +--->[underscore]---+   +---[letter]<-------+<BR>
                                      |                   |<BR>
                                      +---[digit]<--------+<BR>
                                      |                   |<BR>
                                      +---[underscore]<---+<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
And so one for all the rest of the language elements. <BR>
<BR>
Once you have defined terms, you can just refer back to them. I recall<BR>
that the law that deals with "kiddie porn" has the *exact* same<BR>
sequence of definitions repeated in *every* section. Define that<BR>
(including assigning it a label) and just refer to the label. <sigh><BR>
<BR>
> If you're a good grammarian or computer programmer,<BR>
> parsing laws is not difficult at all.  The only trouble are those<BR>
> fuzzy variables like "reasonable".  :-)<BR>
<BR>
Check the older editions of the Guiness book of world records. They<BR>
quote a section from a law (taking half a page to do so. And I defy<BR>
*anyone* to figure out what the hell it is supposed to mean. <BR>
<BR>
I *think* it has something to do defining the difference between<BR>
"<ground> <nuts>" and "<ground nuts>"...<BR>
<BR>
> Ob. trav, Robot Lawyers.  Some world will try it.  There will<BR>
> be some speedy trials.<BR>
><BR>
> Robot Lawyer:  "You're being sued for breach of contract.  Wait One."<BR>
> Client:  "What?!  By who?  For what?"<BR>
> Robot Lawyer:  "You lost.  Damages of Cr10,000 have been removed<BR>
> from your accounts and put into escrow, pending appeal."<BR>
> Client:  "WHAT?!  This is crazy!!  What the hell is going on?"<BR>
> Robot Lawyer:  "Relax.  I had the case dismissed on appeal. They<BR>
> filed their case after the statue of limitations had expired.  I've<BR>
> already deducted my fee.  Care to go to lunch?"<BR>
<BR>
There was an SF story in Analog or Asimov's sometime between 1980 and<BR>
1990 years that had something similar.<BR>
<BR>
Everybody carried an AI that had a radio receiver. Every jurisdiction<BR>
had units around their perimeter broadcasting the "local" laws. I<BR>
expect that these days it'd be a wireless LAN setup....<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, your AI would advise you regarding the legality of anything you<BR>
were planning to do. It'd also warn you about any really odd rules<BR>
before you entered the area they affected. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:57:20 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Pronto wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> http://www.nationalgeographic.com/solarsystem/splash.html<BR>
>> <BR>
>> This should be of interest to some of you.  You'll have to download a small<BR>
>> module to run it, but its very much worth the time.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Try manuevering.....  I guess thats why pilots get the big money.   Hahaha<BR>
<BR>
> Don't bother if you're not running Windows...:-(<BR>
<BR>
Does it just require Windows, or does it also require a graphical<BR>
browser (ie Netscapr or IE)?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:44:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:57 PM<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > Pronto wrote:<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> http://www.nationalgeographic.com/solarsystem/splash.html<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> This should be of interest to some of you.  You'll have to download a<BR>
small<BR>
> >> module to run it, but its very much worth the time.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> Try manuevering.....  I guess thats why pilots get the big money.<BR>
Hahaha<BR>
><BR>
> > Don't bother if you're not running Windows...:-(<BR>
><BR>
> Does it just require Windows, or does it also require a graphical<BR>
> browser (ie Netscapr or IE)?<BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
Yes, unfortunately. The site recomends IE4 at minumum.<BR>
Its technically a virtual orrery with some subtle compression to make it all<BR>
fit on a monitor screen.<BR>
You can also view it in 2D, but I think that would be boring.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3099<BR>
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